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Connecting business owners with financial expertise to grow their businesses.
Sarah Petty (00:44)
Hey, Paul, thank you for joining me on the Olive Insights podcast today.
Paul Farmer (00:47)
My pleasure. Successfully made it to the end of the week and ⁓ still have energy. So things are looking up.
Sarah Petty (00:53)
Good to hear, good to hear. Now, before we dive into our topic today, can we get to know a little bit about you? So you are the founder of Mentoros Group, which is a business advisory firm. And I know like me, you also come from a finance background. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your business and the types of clients that you work with?
Paul Farmer (01:10)
do.
can and I thank you for having me on. ⁓ One of the things I love to do is share where I've come from, but also knowledge that I've gained over the years. So I started, I wanted to be a PE teacher, but wasn't, ⁓ but I, wasn't good enough to go to the PE college directly. And then my sister who was a teacher said, you should go and do a years where the teaching and then specialize. And I couldn't play an instrument. ⁓ couldn't paint. I wasn't creative.
Sarah Petty (01:19)
Of course.
Alright.
Yep.
Paul Farmer (01:46)
and spending a ⁓ in the room with kids ⁓ for a long time probably wasn't something that I was interested in. I thought, what do I do next? I went, accounting. ⁓ yeah, I did well at that at school. So I thought I'll do that. So went and did a Bachelor of Commerce majoring in tax. So as far away from PE teaching as possible. ⁓ And then became an accountant, ⁓ worked in accounting. ⁓
Sarah Petty (01:55)
You
Yes
Paul Farmer (02:15)
up until mid 2000, was that 2006, ⁓ both ⁓ in here in Brisbane, but also in the UK, worked for Shell and other oil and gas companies in London, ⁓ then got into forecasting, realized that accounting wasn't really what I wanted to do, but I could still use my accounting background in that forward looking forecasting planning space.
Again, realized that that's what I really enjoyed rather than the pure accounting side of it. So then again, the oil and gas kept in strategic planning, forecasting, financial modeling roles, came back to Brisbane. And then in 2015, we got taken over by Repsol. Most people know them as the people who sponsor the motor GP. So we got taken over by them and they went away from using a system to using Excel.
to justify an $8 billion project. So with that came its challenges of more people were needed and more time, but we didn't have more time and they wouldn't give us more people. So I thought if something doesn't change, they're not gonna change it. So I decided to step out of corporate and then started Mentoris, ⁓ which now we sit with business owners and sit outside like a business partner. ⁓
Sarah Petty (03:18)
Right.
Paul Farmer (03:43)
but not an official business partner, like an independent non-executive director. ⁓ Help them see whole of business strategy, not just the financial accounting and tax piece. So sitting outside them to help them see the whole of business strategy, and then we connect them with professionals like yourself ⁓ around, okay, well, we need someone who's gonna give accounting and tax advice, or someone's gonna look at the internal ⁓ management accounting, or...
Sarah Petty (03:47)
Yes.
Yes.
Paul Farmer (04:10)
We're going to look at insurance brokers, legal, et cetera, to give specialist advice rather than us giving, attempting to give specialist advice. And business-wise, we work predominantly with businesses that are in that $2 million plus. What we do with smaller businesses under 2 million can be one-off project work. So we can help them reset their strategy, but then they'll go away and they'll make it happen.
And then we can be like an external sounding board if they need us. A lot of the time they take it away and they use that to grow and come back when they're in that $2 million plus space. So agnostic industry, we work with everything and work with business owners or business leaders that are able to influence the decision-making process. ⁓ So that's where we find the best cut through in there. And to be fair,
Sarah Petty (05:00)
Yes.
Paul Farmer (05:04)
How are we different from everyone else in the market? We're honest, open, direct, no fluff. ⁓ And we will be direct. ⁓ And we ask for permission to be direct up front. If that's something people aren't comfortable with, that's okay. Maybe not our people, but we're not designed to be in a space for a long time. We're designed to be in a space to help them create change and then get out and have others be able to be the specialists and give the specialist advice on the way through.
Sarah Petty (05:34)
Yeah, and I think that's one of the most difficult things business owners deal with is knowing which specialist to engage. And it can be expensive to hire, you know, the specialists and the experts into the business. So if you hire the wrong one, and you don't really need that expertise, it's quite a lot of it's a big investment to make. So I think what you're saying there is you really help them to get to the crux of
Paul Farmer (05:40)
Hmm.
Sarah Petty (05:55)
What do they need? What experts do they need? And sometimes the sequencing of that. it might be starting with finance and then, you know, insurance or marketing or whatever it might be. But it's hard for business owners to know that, especially when they do have limited funds to spend.
Paul Farmer (06:00)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, if I give you an example, our clients come to us to help them paint one picture of their business, because often what we find is they'll go to their accountant and their accountant will give them a view of the business. Then they'll go to their legal people and they'll give them a view of their business. And then they'll go to the insurance broker. And they'll also, so all of a sudden they end up with eight different versions of their own business. And they go, who do I listen to? And often the accountant is the trusted advisor, but they are
Sarah Petty (06:31)
Yes, yes.
Yes.
Paul Farmer (06:39)
often, as we know, we often only see it from the accounting and tax perspective, not we're looking to borrow in 12 months. Well, how do we make this thing look profitable or more profitable? So we have borrowing capacity goes up. so we'll come in, help them reset the direction. They then take that all of their advisors and have the advisors put their specialty onto the strategy that we're looking to deliver over the next 12 months.
Sarah Petty (07:06)
Yes, absolutely. So I think everything that you're saying there is the reason I've invited you on to discuss this particular topic today. So let's dive into it. we have the question we're to talk to overall is how do business owners create a clear direction in their business, including financial profitability?
So I've got a couple of questions for you, Paul, but I think given all of that background, you've got a lot of expertise to help us answer this. ⁓ that clear direction is something a lot of businesses struggle with, right? It can often feel like it's just putting out the fires day to day and not really thinking about where you're heading or not strategically planning for that too. So first question.
Paul Farmer (07:33)
Yep. Let's go. Fire away.
Sarah Petty (07:52)
When you first start working with a business, how do you help them define where they're going? ⁓ Are business leaders always clear about this or do you find that they struggle with it themselves?
Paul Farmer (08:04)
The reason business owners seek us out or people that are in the advisory space is because the one question that comes up, which is, don't Yep, that statement comes up. Now, whether it's, don't know who to speak to, I don't know where a business is going, I don't know what to do next, I don't know why I've stopped making decisions, I don't know comes up. And it gets in the way of people taking action.
Sarah Petty (08:14)
Yes.
Paul Farmer (08:31)
because on the other side of taking action, there is an uncertain outcome. And so what we do is we all sit, for all of our business owners that we work with, we sit with them for two hours. We have an upfront free 30 minute call, but we sit with them for two hours to help them reset what they want their business to be. Yep, once we've got that clear picture, then we say, right, what do you need to do to make it happen? And who do you need in your space?
that you either A, don't have or B, you have to replace because they're rubbish at what it is that they're doing. And so for us, it's about helping them get clear because I'll give you an example, I had a client walked in yesterday and they've been running a great business, but they've got to the point where there's some elements of whether it's health issues in the family or whatever, something's popped up and they've gone, we don't know what impact this may have on our business or
Sarah Petty (09:24)
Mm.
Paul Farmer (09:30)
there's a fear that this will impact their business and they don't know how to deal with it. And so the conversation was, do they go to their accountant? Generally no, because their accountant is too busy or it's not compliance or it's future looking. So they don't necessarily have the ability to go, well, what if this happens or what if that happens? Do they go to their lawyers? Not really. Do they go to their insurance broker? Not really. Who do they go to?
Sarah Petty (09:37)
Yes.
Hmm.
Paul Farmer (10:00)
And so we're like that business partner they don't have in their business where they sit there and they can we throw this at you. And so we just sat unpacked it, ⁓ worked out what was challenging for them and realized that they were the ones that were causing the uncertainty because they didn't know that it was okay to make certain decisions regardless of what was going to turn up.
Sarah Petty (10:07)
Yep.
Paul Farmer (10:28)
Yep. Because their whole judgment of themselves was, well, if we say that, we'll have a business that isn't the business that we have now. But for them, the capacity they've got to run that business has been reduced. So they were going, we still want to make the same profit, but we just don't want to have to do as much as we've been doing, because it's starting to impact us in our business. So we just unpacked it. like, so do you want to do less, but still have the same amount of profits? Like, yeah.
Sarah Petty (10:35)
Yeah.
Paul Farmer (10:58)
and say, well, I'm not gonna give you the accounting and tax advice on that, but I'm gonna give you some understanding of what influences your profit and how you might be able to reshape some of the work that you're doing to say no to the unprofitable stuff or the stuff that takes extra time. What if you could reduce the time, but keep the profit? Oh, you can do that? Of course you can.
Sarah Petty (11:22)
Yeah, yeah, there's always, always options, always solutions. How do you, how do you kind of dig into where they want to head, where they, you know, if they, if they've got the I don't know, and we all do in our businesses, right, there's all aspects of it that we all have aspects that we don't know the answer to. Is that where you start? Is it almost listing out what are the areas that you feel that you don't have a grasp on, or you don't have plans around, or you don't understand? If they're just
Paul Farmer (11:26)
Totally.
Yeah.
Sarah Petty (11:52)
I don't really know where I'm heading and I need some help. Where do you start with a business owner that's in that headspace?
Paul Farmer (11:58)
So the first two questions that I asked, one is, what's the feeling in the business at the moment? And generally that's where all the rubbish comes up around, it's terrible, my team aren't working hard enough and my clients aren't paying me on time and all the people are very happy to tell you the stuff that's not working in their business when you ask them. And often they'll come to us because their business feels clunky.
Sarah Petty (12:03)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Paul Farmer (12:27)
The cash flow is tight. ⁓ People aren't paying on time. And all of that, generally by asking, first question is, what's the feeling in your business at the moment? And they'll tell you, if it feels terrible, they'll tell you, even if they've only just met you, they'll tell you, it's like, what does it feel like? And they go, it's rubbish. But I don't know how to check it.
Sarah Petty (12:27)
Yep.
Yeah. And I guess
what you're providing there is almost that safe space to just unload that without the pressure of feeling like they have to come up with a solution. Because when they're talking to their team, you don't want to just unload all of that onto your team members and not have a vision, direction, or some sort of solution to guide the team towards where this takes that pressure off and just allows them to get it off their chest. Yeah.
Paul Farmer (12:53)
Thank you.
That's right.
Yep. Totally. So I don't know
whether you can see it, but in the background, I've got a piece of art on the wall. And it's a child that is looking behind a curtain. So if I consider what it is that we do, we help business owners pull back the curtain and look behind it in a judgment-free zone. So people will walk into my office here or for on Zoom, whatever.
Sarah Petty (13:17)
yes, I can.
Yes.
Paul Farmer (13:38)
They'll walk in and say, what's the feeling in the business at the moment? And generally they'll point to that and they'll go, it is so noisy out there. There is so much rubbish floating around. And one client came in and she said, can you just quieten it down? And she said, I know by coming to you, you'll help me make sense of the noise. You'll help me add structure, which then allows me to be able to quieten it down. And then when I'm ready, I can pull back the curtain and I can go nuts and grow and whatever.
Sarah Petty (13:46)
Yeah.
Paul Farmer (14:07)
Yeah. So in that space, or someone will walk in and go, I'm ready. So that same client walked in a month later and she walked in and she was giggling. And I said, what are you giggling at? And she said, I'm ready to unleash the music.
because she'd realized that with the noise going on in her space, she wasn't able to concentrate on what it is that she wanted to do. And it was on everyone else's terms. So the question for me, first question is, what's the feeling in your business? And generally people see the visual, and that's one of the reasons why it's on the wall. People see the visual and they go, yeah, it's so noisy out there. It's like, well, is that impacting your decisions? Yes.
Sarah Petty (14:49)
Yes.
Paul Farmer (14:53)
And so the curiosity, we're the child that helps them sit there and go, well, if you could have the business that you want, what would it look like? And we get them to picture what it is that they would like their business to be. Again, there's no judgment, there's no right, wrong, good or bad. It's just, if you could have the business that you want, what would it look like? And they go this, this, this, this, and this. And then the second question we ask ⁓ is, what does growth mean to you now?
Sarah Petty (15:04)
Mm.
Yeah.
Paul Farmer (15:24)
So again, if we're sitting in a space where someone's going, I'm not growing, well, what does growth mean? Is growth, does it mean bigger? Does it mean more? You sometimes you've got to traverse the mountain to be able to climb the mountain. And so, unless you're a mountain goat, and they hang off everything. So, but to be in a space, to be able to say, well, what is it? At the moment, what is growth? Someone comes in and they go, they don't have the energy, they don't have the time, they don't have the resources.
Sarah Petty (15:38)
Hmm.
Paul Farmer (15:52)
but they still think that the outside world believes they should be adding more people, more clients, more everything. But the whole saying, it's like growth can either warm your house or burn it down. Do you know, or is it external expectation that you have to incrementally keep growing your business? If you're not growing, you're going backwards. If you're not green and growing, you're brown and dying. It's like, well, often that's rubbish. Sometimes you need to take a moment to be able to
Sarah Petty (16:05)
Yeah.
Yes.
Paul Farmer (16:22)
get things in place as you'd see without systems process and structure, then growing is just going to burn the house down.
Sarah Petty (16:31)
Yeah, and often there's a fear around growth too because I've seen where businesses have grown beyond their current level, it has become completely unsustainable from a financial perspective as well as the owner's mental health and the pressure on the team and all of that, the systems processes are falling apart and they've shrunk the business back down. And so the thought of going to that level again is actually something quite scary for the business owner. ⁓
Paul Farmer (16:56)
Bingo, which that element
of fear, I'll be honest, 95 % of the conversations I have with business owners upfront, that first conversation is about what's the fear. Now, which is quite ironic for an accountant with an accounting background to go into that space. But because that is really the feeling in the business is the space that most professional services people don't go into.
Sarah Petty (17:10)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Paul Farmer (17:24)
But we
start there because that's generally the thing that is holding the business back is the fear or the space at which a business owner sits influences what shows up in the business.
Sarah Petty (17:39)
definitely. I mean, I find with my work to finance is not just finance and the numbers. Anything the business owner is doing in their business is often very closely linked to their personal life and their well being. And, you know, financial stress is one of the biggest issues when it comes to mental health of a business owner. ⁓ So you can't just focus on just the numbers or just the processes. It's all interlinked. Yeah.
Paul Farmer (18:05)
Bingo. And often,
often there is a lack of understanding because you've got the technical side of the business and you've got the business side of the business. And so if you're in a space where you've got someone who's technically very good at what they do, but don't understand the business side of business, which is the management of cashflow, the management of people outside your business, inside your business, and the management of cash that flows around in that space. If you don't understand how to do that,
Sarah Petty (18:14)
Yeah.
Paul Farmer (18:33)
You can be the best builder in the world. You can be the best accountant in the world. can be the best lawyer in the world. But if you don't manage the business side of your business, that's what cooks people. Not the fact that they've built a dodgy house or they've built, often does come up, but that side of it. It's generally not the technical side of it that defeats business owners. It's the business side, but they choose to put their head in their sand and you'd see it. Financials. I've never been taught how to understand my financials. Well, you know what?
Sarah Petty (18:43)
Yes.
Paul Farmer (19:02)
If you want to know what's influencing your business and how to influence it, where do you start? You start with the numbers. It tells you a story. Yeah.
Sarah Petty (19:08)
Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah,
for sure. So once a business owner has identified those areas, they're unsure about you've got to feel for, you know, the feeling within the business and what's happening, where the owner's head out is in relation to growth and what their fears are behind it. How do you then help a business owner decide what to focus on what to start doing what to stop doing?
Paul Farmer (19:32)
Hmm.
Hmm. Beautiful. the question, generally the question will be to them. It's like, okay, well we will go through in our strategy reset, we'll go through seven or eight areas and identify what they want their business to be in 12 months. And the question then comes up is if you could change one thing in your business, what would be the one thing that you would change first? And they'll literally sit there and they'll go, people.
or clients or cashflow or whatever it is. And so we can give them what we think, but because it's their business, we give them an opportunity to be able to give us a view of that. If we sit there and go, you know what, that's bang on. So either who do you need or what is the one thing you'll do first to address that? And they'll go, well, I don't know where to find good people.
Sarah Petty (20:05)
Yeah.
Paul Farmer (20:30)
And so, well, if we could help you with that, would that get you started? And they say, yes. So we'll give them an opportunity to get them moving because if they come up with the one thing they're prepared to do, are they more likely to do it rather than me sitting there going, well, here's a list of 15 things. You go away and work on it and come back once you've worked on it. We'll generally sit there and go, okay, so if there was one thing that would get you moving forward, what would it be?
And it may not be people related. might be, well, we'd understand their financials or we'll have a conversation with our accountant or we'll say no to that rubbish client that's costing us money, but we haven't had the confidence to say no because we thought that the tap would turn off.
Sarah Petty (21:03)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, and I assume most people would know that in their gut, they've got an answer, right? Even you saying that question, I'm thinking in my own head of the areas in my business, you kind of know, it's sometimes just admitting to it being open about it. But I'm sure most people without thinking if you ask them what that one thing was, they could they could name an area.
Paul Farmer (21:14)
Yeah.
Yes!
Yeah. And
then generally the interesting question that comes up then is, why haven't you done that previously? Now it's not an accusation, it's not a blame, it's not whatever. It's just helping them reflect. And again, you can sit there and think about one of those things that you sit there and go, well, maybe that's something that I should do. You sit there and go, well, why haven't I done that previously? And so the element of
Sarah Petty (21:42)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Paul Farmer (22:02)
For us, we have three things, value yourself, tell yourself the whole truth, not just the easy stuff, and then take 100 % responsibility for everything in your space. If you come from that space, then things generally happen on your terms as opposed to that of
Sarah Petty (22:20)
Yep. Yep.
Paul Farmer (22:21)
And
you're right, Fear drives pretty much everything that goes through business. And that's why I say, don't know, on the other side of I don't know is a decision which then often is based by fear, not based on abundance. Yeah? Yeah, if I was someone that valued myself, what would I say to that customer who was paying late, who wanted a discount?
Sarah Petty (22:37)
Yes, so true. Yeah.
Paul Farmer (22:49)
that was terrible to work with doesn't send their information to me, but expects me to do it based on a dog's breakfast of what they sent me, what do I say to them? Do I keep saying yes to them and keep getting what they want me to get? Or do I have a conversation upfront to say, let's set the expectation. If that doesn't work for you, maybe it's okay. Maybe you need to go and work with someone else and be okay with that. But if I don't value myself,
Sarah Petty (22:57)
Yes.
Yes.
Paul Farmer (23:16)
I'll let them take us on their journey. And if we do that, whose journey we on theirs? What does it end up on? Their timeline, their pricing, their way of doing it. And we generally get screwed, if I'm honest. So being in space to be able to say, well, you know what, if I valued myself, what would I say to this? If I say no to that person upfront, I then open up an opportunity to say yes to a client who's gonna be an A-class client, pay on time.
Sarah Petty (23:31)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Paul Farmer (23:45)
pay a premium and value us as opposed to us having to give them everything.
Sarah Petty (23:54)
Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. It is driven out of fear often because people know that they could be doing better than that. And know that they're being treated badly. But it is is a fear. you know, there are tough conversations you have to have around that sometimes. It's it's yeah, of course. Yeah.
Paul Farmer (23:55)
Yeah. ⁓
To us it is.
Yeah.
Of wrong, but that's a choice. But we choose, we
choose to step away from fear as opposed to leaning into it. Yeah?
Sarah Petty (24:16)
Yeah, definitely.
What do you see are the most common areas of business that prevent business owners from moving forward? when you're talking about these type of things, is it mainly people or finances? Or is it a combination of a range of things?
Paul Farmer (24:32)
Well, interestingly enough, I have this view of business, which is business is made up of people and cash. To simplify it, people outside your business, which is potential ⁓ clients, past clients, ⁓ employee, potential employees, past employees. ⁓ So, and then you've got family members, then you've got, you know, all of those people who potentially,
want you to give them everything for nothing. But being in a space, so external to your business, internal to your business. So again, you've got clients, team members, and then yourself as a business owner, a business leader. So that side of it. Then the human interaction makes up most of business. And then you have cash, which is how do we manage cash? Well, we manage the people.
and the people then help us manage the cash. And so for me, I look at that and go cash flows, one thing, clients, potential clients are another thing, team members, potential team members are another thing. So if I look at those areas to say, if we want a business to feel good, what is it that we, there three areas, people.
what we ask people to do, and then what we do as business owners. Yeah, and so clients, people, and us as business owners, those three areas are generally where the areas come up. So team members, it's getting harder to find people, sure. But then you've also got to say, well, what are we showing the world that has us become a very attractive option rather than other people?
Sarah Petty (26:02)
Yeah.
Yes.
Paul Farmer (26:26)
So most people that
Sarah Petty (26:26)
Yeah.
Paul Farmer (26:27)
I sit there and go, oh, you know what, we're finding it hard to find people. say, okay, well tell me why, if you wanted me to come and work with you, what are you showing the world that makes me excited to come and work for you? And they go, what do you mean? And I say, well, social media, LinkedIn. Do you show what it would be like for me to come and work for you? But why would I do that? Well, how am I expected to leave my current position
Sarah Petty (26:45)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Paul Farmer (26:56)
And trust,
it's just trust me. Trust me that we're good to work for. Show the world. Show the world how good it is. Get your team members to tell the world what it's like, what your experience is. Clients, past clients, existing clients, whatever. Get them to tell the world how good it is to work with you because then all of a sudden, ⁓ bugger me, people start turning up because they see that it's quite good to work for you. And you do good work, you work with good people and that sort of stuff.
know, cashflow generally, not understanding cashflow and how to influence, that generally starts it, but it's not the cashflow because that's the result of decisions. And then it's what are the decisions they're making? Well, it's about clients, it's about team members, it's about not valuing yourself, but also it's about the business owners not getting out of their own way and wanting to control everything because again, that's based on fear.
Sarah Petty (27:37)
Yeah.
Yes, absolutely. Yeah,
some really good points in there. It's a good way to look at it and just simplify it down into the areas of your business. You're right. There's really not much more to it than that. We over complicate these things sometimes. ⁓
Paul Farmer (27:58)
Yeah.
True, which
often gets in in front of, or is used as a way to justify procrastination, or not taking action because there's so much complexity. Well, not really, we just choose to put it there to give us an excuse to not make decisions to be able to move forward.
Sarah Petty (28:15)
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah, absolutely. So once a business owner has defined a bit more of a clear path going forward, they know where they're heading, they've identified the areas that they want to work on and even the actions they want to take.
What's your view or advice for business owners on how they can keep themselves accountable and stay on track with continuing to take action against that? Because I guess the planning is one side, but you want to make sure the execution occurs afterwards.
Paul Farmer (28:56)
Yeah, totally. And so we do a couple of things in that space. One is once they've got the plan, if that's all they need, happy days. They go away and they make it happen. What we also find is that for the first three to six months post having a plan, most clients have us in their business for an hour or two hours a month because they know that when they turn up to that one or two hour catch up,
Sarah Petty (29:06)
Mm-hmm.
Paul Farmer (29:24)
we're going to have a conversation about what it is that they've done, what they haven't done. And so we offer that post reset conversation to keep them in a space where they're doing what they say they will do. And they know, they know that we're gonna walk in and go, so tell me about what happened over the last month. And we're going to challenge them, but we're also gonna acknowledge them when they do things that growth turns up and growth happens and whatever.
The beauty is that we get an understanding of their financials because we get access to their zero. And because we understand numbers, they'll turn up. But we already have a picture of the business because we'll see what the results are over the last month. And they'll turn up and it's like, so, tell me a story about the last month. And we had a client, they turned up and said, oh, we've done all of this. And I said, oh, can I ask a question? Where does that show up in your numbers? Oh, we haven't really signed it off yet.
Sarah Petty (30:07)
Yeah.
Paul Farmer (30:22)
but we've done all of this. And it's like, well, in the nicest possible way, this is about honest. And if you're not prepared to be honest, that's okay, but nothing will change. But you wanna change, So for us, it's creating an opportunity for them to have someone over a three to six month period who keeps them accountable. But it's not us keeping them accountable, it's us helping them stay accountable to themselves. Because we don't wanna be in the business forever.
Sarah Petty (30:22)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Paul Farmer (30:51)
Let's be honest, we want to be in, help them be able to set it up, start taking action, start getting results, but also hold themselves accountable for that. And then once we get outside that three to six month period, it might be a quarterly catch up. Or it'll be ad hoc as in when they need that support. We have clients ring up and say, Hey, we've just started doing what we did six months ago. ⁓ Can we get a tune up because we've started to go a bit off track.
Sarah Petty (31:06)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Paul Farmer (31:20)
And so we become that ad hoc sounding board for them. So being in a space to say, okay, over the next month, what is it you're gonna do? What is it that you need from us? And who do you need in your space to be able to make that happen? And then when they say we're good, then we go, right, well, what's the accountability that you're bringing to your business? And we help them look at what the accountability is for them. I have clients that have become ex-clients.
Sarah Petty (31:35)
Yeah.
Paul Farmer (31:50)
but they still ring me when they go, hey, I just did this and now it's so good and whatever, or they'll send me their monthly accountability stuff. And it's not because I'm gonna then do anything with them. That's their accountability to themselves because they know that I still have access to Xero. I still have access to what they're doing. And I'll randomly just sit there and go, hey, just checking in and see how things are going. And they go, yeah, we've done this, this, this and this. Cool. Yeah.
Sarah Petty (32:05)
Yeah.
Yeah,
I guess it's about helping them establish the habits for holding themselves accountable because you're right, you can't, you know, it's great to have someone to lean on. And I've worked with many coaches through my corporate career and starting my own business and having that person to help hold you accountable is great, but you can't rely on them forever. So it's establishing the right habits. So you can hold yourself accountable over time. And I love the client who's had the self-awareness to realize they're off track and then reach out to get back on track. ⁓
Paul Farmer (32:47)
Yeah,
Sarah Petty (32:47)
Not many of us are good at doing that. ⁓
Paul Farmer (32:47)
because one of the big things that for us that we ask permission for is to be honest. And so for everyone that signs on to work with us, we have a, as part of our upfront agreement, we have, is what you can expect from us, this is what we expect from you. And so if someone's not comfortable signing that, and in there it says, we will be honest, you will be honest. And if they're not comfortable signing that, that's okay.
Sarah Petty (32:55)
Yeah.
Yep. Yep.
Paul Farmer (33:17)
For us, that's a red flag because
we ask for the right to be honest, but we also respect that that comes on a two-way street. And so we're in a space to be able to say, we want you to be honest because if you're not honest with yourself, you won't change. And so the only thing that happens is we get hammered for not changing their business, but ultimately it's their business, not ours.
Sarah Petty (33:28)
Yeah, absolutely.
Yes, exactly.
Paul Farmer (33:46)
and if they're not prepared to
change and think differently, then they go to someone else that'll sign them up to a 12 month agreement for six grand a month and nothing will change. How does that work? It doesn't.
Sarah Petty (33:56)
Yes. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Not at all. ⁓ You're right. It's about the honesty and accountability, which is sometimes uncomfortable, but that will make all the difference. Yes.
Paul Farmer (34:10)
But sometimes it has to be because the
comfortable isn't changing. And change doesn't it? know, someone, and you'd see it. know, people keep doing the same thing, expecting definition of insanity. I'm gonna keep doing this, but I want something different. So you're an idiot. Why are you thinking that way? If you're not prepared to change, that's okay, but get used to this turning up because it will keep turning.
Sarah Petty (34:15)
It almost always has to be. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Paul Farmer (34:37)
because you keep doing the same thing. If you want something different, then let's talk about what you're prepared to do differently. If you're not prepared to do anything differently, that's okay. But you don't earn the right to whinge and bit your mind about not having something different. And we have, again, we have that conversation before we agree to work with someone. It's like, if you're prepared to take action, then we're prepared to believe in you. If you're not, you're not earning the right to whinge and bit your mind about not getting the results.
Sarah Petty (35:06)
Yes, fair, very fair. Well, Paul, there's probably 20 more questions I could ask you, but we're out of time. So yes, flew by, but really appreciate all of your insights and advice to business owners today. I'm sure there's lots of people that would have got a lot out of this conversation. So if there's anyone out there who's interested in finding out more about you or the business and your services, where can they find you?
Paul Farmer (35:07)
Yeah. Yeah.
So quickly.
Yep.
They can find us our website, mentorusgroup.com.au. We're on Instagram, LinkedIn, I'm on LinkedIn, Mataurus is on LinkedIn. And everyone gets access to a 20 minute, no obligation, judgment free, upfront discussion to see whether we're someone that might be a good fit for them. If not, we'll be honest and say, probably not a good fit, but we might know someone who might be a good fit.
⁓ But apart from that, anyone wants to know anything, reach out, send me a message, find me on Facebook, throw a sheep at me on Facebook, if that's what people do, I don't know. But just reach out and happy to have a chat and see if there's a way we can add value. If not, that's okay. ⁓ But yeah, again, happy to help wherever we can, if it fits into our space.
Sarah Petty (36:10)
You
Amazing. Well, thank you. Really appreciate your time on the podcast today.
Paul Farmer (36:28)
Awesome.
My pleasure, thank you. Yeah, and keep leaning in, T. The other side of fear is good results.
Sarah Petty (36:40)
Absolutely.