What The Bible Says About Disciple and Good Judgment: Proverbs 23:1-35

Show Notes

Episode 577: 
In this episode, Chris Zarbaugh and Jeff Forester delve into Proverbs 23, where we unpack a series of wise sayings attributed to King Solomon. We discuss the importance of wisdom, discipline, and good judgment, emphasizing that these qualities are invaluable and should never be compromised for temporary gains. We draw parallels between the ancient text and modern life, illustrating how the advice given in Proverbs remains relevant today.

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You're listening to The Bible Guys, a podcast where a couple of friends talk about the Bible in fun, in practical ways. Hey, everybody, welcome to the Bible guys. I am Chris Zarba. Oh excellent. I was wondering who you were. I'm sitting here going who is that? Guys? To meet you? Yeah, and this is Jeff. For Forster, Jeff Forster. Actually there's another Jeff Forrester, is there? Yeah? Well I would amuse it's. Kind of a famous Jeff Forster in Minneapolis. Yeah. There's a lawyer named Chris Zarba in Texas. Yeah, there's not Zara is not a common name. Do you think he'd do well on the Bible guys? I don't know. Maybe he's a phenomenal guy. He's an attorney. We should get your attorney and my forest ranger guy. Yeah, and we can put them together. Sure that sounds like a really weird idea. Okay, well just keep at it, I guess. Yeah. So, hey, we are moving into a segment. We're going to read for you a very important piece of news. Yes, so I just lost it. By the way, hang on a minute, let me find it. Let me go back here. There we go. So do you know, uh, what's your favorite Christmas song? My favorite Christmas song is Oh There's no place like Home for the Holidays. Nice bing. So no matter how far you is that. Bing Crosby, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I really liked the song Mary, did you know? Yeah, well that's one route to go. That's I love it. Yeah, I love that. What I'm saying is you're making me look bad Jesus like. Jesus Jesus, you know. So there's a but so, uh, there's some controversy. And so I think our fans and our listeners they know, they know that we only bring the most important news in their finest news, the most trustworthy news. You know, it's one of the most trustworthy sources. Who we are, Yes, that's right. And so what is the most trustworthy source we. Know of the Babylon be. The Babylon B is what we feel like is the most Yes. I mean they set the bar so high on quality news. Yes, and information, way better than CNN. You can trust it, yes, or any of them for that matter. Okay, So Babylon B, if you don't know, is a satire website. It's hysterically funny but the headline is popular Christmas song Mary, did you know criticized for man'splaining? Which is so funny? If you know the song, which I'm sure most people know the song, right, it's really funny. Yes, it's really funny. Someday walk on Mary? Are you aware? Let me ask you for the nineteenth time in the song. Do you have the lyrics? Do you have the lyrics to this song? I could definitely definitely bring that up there. Yeah, yeah, because I mean that's really important for if a person doesn't know the song Mary. Did you know? Mary? Oops? I hate when it does that. I hate when it does that. Mary. This he's very complicated lyrics. Okay, So basically, here's what it says. Mary. Did you know that your baby boy will walk one day, walk on water? Mary? Did you know that your baby boy we sons are saving daughters. Did you know that your baby boys come to make things new? That child you that the child you delivered will soon deliver you married. Did you know that your baby boy will give sight to a blind man married? Did you know that your baby boy will call the storm with a sision? Did you know that your baby that's all it does? Yes? He goes all the way through and it just keeps on asking, which is hilarious. So with that in mind, yes, that Mark Lowry, who, by the way, very funny Christian comedians, very funny, sang with the Gay Through vocal band for years and years and years. He wrote the song. So members of the United Evangelistic World Faith Missionary Alliance Church voted to remove the song Mary did you Know from their library of songs members of the church could sing karaoke style during Christmas services after coming to a consensus that the song is pure man's blaming. Yes, quote every line is a man condescending to a woman, assuming she doesn't know anything about her own baby, said Margie Hall, chairman of the church board. The fact that this song was written and originally sung by a man just makes my skin crawl. My goodness that you know what they're making fun but that's I could actually see this. Being an actual Oh. Absolutely in twenty twenty four. Absolutely, do you think Margie Hall has a nose ring? Uh? No, I do not, Okay, I do not. The original performer and writer of the song, comedian and vocalist Mark Lowry, commented on the controversy by explaining his position in a condescending and overconfident tone. Lowry has also been accused of man spreading. His defenders are few, but those who have come out in his favor are commonly accused of hympathy empathy. Lowry has been encouraged to write a new song titled Mary Sorry, I'll shut up and do better. That's so great. That is so good. So I had no idea that was so because you know, there are a lot of Christmas song controversies. Oh yeah, and so this is a new one, and we just wanted to throw our hat in the ring and saying, hey, we endorse all controversy. Yeah, that's right, we endured some controversy, big fans. That's so funny. Okay, you know the uh there. There is almost nothing worse than cancel culture. Cancel culture is the worst. It is, it is. I think we should cancel cancel culture. I cancel it right now, cancel it. Declare bankruptcy. Do you remember that on the office Remember Oscar oscar It's financial advisor said that he has to declared bankruptcy and he said he did you ever consider doing that? And he's like yeah, and he didn't understand what it meant. So he walks out into the office publicly in front of all his employees and he goes, hi. Oh, that's right, I remember that. I remember that. And he's like, that's not what declaring means, Michael, that's so funny. Anyway, all right, let's move on. I don't even know how to transition this next one. Oh she was We forgot about transitions at least the time I did. Hey. Uh, speaking of man's planning? Uh has the man splain to all the fools in life? Yeah, an entire book of life hacks from a mansplainer. Yes, because the people like me and others who have to get Man's plained to, we really appreciate it. That was a pretty weak transition. It was rough. That's rough. Well, one of our goals was really bad transitions. That may have set the new Barkay. Okay, So we're in chapter twenty three, right, Yes, and it says, while dining with a ruler, pay attention to what is put before you. If you're a big eater, put a knife to your throat. Don't desire all the delicacies or he might be trying to trick you. Don't wear yourself out trying to get rich, be wise enough to know when to quit, and the blink of an eye wealth disappears, for it will sprout wings and fly away like an eagle. Don't eat with people who are stingy. Don't desire their delicacies. They are always thinking about how much it costs eat and drink, they say, but they don't mean it. You will throw up what little you've eaten. Your compliments will be wasted. Don't waste your breath on fools, for they will despise. The wisest advice. Don't cheat your neighbor by moving the ancient boundary markers. And don't take the land of defenseless orphans. For their redeemer is strong, he himself will bring their charges against you. Commit yourself to instruction, Listen carefully to words of knowledge. Don't fail to discipline your children. They won't die if you spank them. Physical. Physical discipline may well save them from death. Wow, so he's saying the opposite, right, my child. If your heart is wise, my own heart will rejoice. Everything in me will celebrate when you speak what is right. Don't envy sinners, but always continue to fear the Lord. You will be rewarded For this your hope will not be disappointed. My child, listen and be wise. Keep your heart on the right course. Do not carouse with drunkards or feast with gluttons, for they are on their way to poverty and too much sleep. Close them in rags. Listen to your father, who gave you, and don't despise your mother when she is old. Get the truth and never sell it. Also get wisdom, discipline, and good judgment. The father of godly children has cause for joy. What a pleasure to have children who are wise. So give your father mother joy. May she who gave you birth be happy. Oh my son, give give me your heart. May your eyes take the light in following my ways. A prostitute is a dangerous trap. A promiscuous woman is as dangerous as falling into a narrow well. She hides and waits like a robber, eager to make more men unfaithful. Who has anguish, who has sorrow? Who is always fighting, who's always complaining? Who has unnecessary bruises? Who has bloodshot eyes? It's the one who spends long hours in the taverns trying out new drinks. Don't gaze at the wine, seeing how red it is how it sparkles in the cup, how smoothly it goes down. For in the end, it bites like a poisonous snake. It stings like a viper. You'll see halloosas nations, and you'll say crazy things, and you'll stagger like a sailor tossed at sea, clinging to a swaying mast. You will say, they hit me, but I didn't feel it. I didn't even know it when they beat me up? When will I wake up so I can look for another drink? Very descriptive. You'll stagger like a sailor tossed at sea? Right right? Right? Yeah? Wow? Yeah? So am I reading this right? This could be like one of the coolest metaphors, Like, it's like artistic. Even it's verse number twenty three, Actually twenty two and twenty three seemed to go together. It says, listen to your father who gave you life, and don't despise your mother when she is old. And then it says get the truth and never sell it, along with wisdom, discipline, and good judgment. So is that like, is that he's not literally talking about selling a piece of information? Is he? I think that the way I'm reading it is. It's like this cool metaphor of like, for instance, if your father hands you like a family heirloom, like a like a brooch with a diamond in it, he's saying, well, you'll sell that, you know, just for temporary gain. And he's saying, let me tell you one thing that you'll never don't ever do is don't ever let go of truth and compromise it by gaining. Like let's just say, like, you know, like you compromise your integrity, right, And so it's like a metaphor of like saying, it's just as if selling something off for something temporary, don't ever let go of wisdom and truth for a temporary compromise. So it's like it's metaphoric because that's how I'm reading it. Is that so? Or is it literal? So it says in verse twenty three, King James says, because that's why I grow up on right, James says, buy wisdom and sell it not. And my dad I remember my dad talking about that passage and he said, the sell it not part could have been translated don't pawn it right, Yeah, but that still sounds pretty satistical. That's right, that's the idea though, is is you get a hold of something and you know it's doesn't have the same value to you as maybe the thing that it could get you, so you you pawn it so that you can go get something else. What he's saying is there's nothing, nothing you can possess that's more important than wisdom. Yeah, yeah, So I love it. I love that. I love that analogy because you know, even even today here we have you know, a group of people listening who thousands and thousands of years later, we can completely relate to that concept. Right. And when you pawn something, you take something typically of really really good value, and you pawn it off for way less than what it's worth, and you lose it. For the most part, almost everybody loses it, right, And so yeah, pawning it is just a concept. And usually we take something that we could keep for a long time, we pawn it. And it's usually so we can pay for something that's going to be temporary, right, keep the lights on, right, make one more monthly payment on the car something, yes, Yes, And that's what he's talking about, is we're often tempted to trade in the strength and permanency of wisdom, will trade it in for something temporary. That's yeah, Yeah, that's really solid, isn't it. Yeah, that really is cool. I like that because again it's just it's you can hang on to that word picture in your life and everybody knows what it's like. Well, even if you don't know what it's like, you've you've you can get your mind around it anyway. It's pretty cool. There's so many places that are challenging us to pursue wisdom. Make wisdom the principal goal of our life, you know, And and we know that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Certainly, so that's going to require that we step into a real relationship with God. And then wisdom is the thing that'll carry us through. Wisdom is is the thing that it will help us overcome all of the struggles and the problems. And here he also adds along with getting the truth and don't ever sell it. So we need truth, and then he says, get wisdom. Discipline is the is the discipline quite honestly, is making the choices, the right choices right, Because our our natural inclination is not to want to always do right. Our national inclination is to please ourselves, and so discipline would be no, I'm going to make the best choice, not the funnest choice. Right, and it's funnest the work. No, I don't think it's fun most fun fun. Yeah. And then and then good judgment, which good judgment really is? There's a uh that word usually is translated as discernment. This ability to know how to apply wisdom is what that is. So uh, truth sets us up for if we apply truth wisdom, right, wisdom is applied truth, and then discipline is the focus and the character necessary to actually live out that wise thing. Discernment is knowing how to apply wisdom in their life. So yeah, right, it's really good. That's really good. And then also there's this other like, I don't think it's a literal thing. I think it's a more like a word picture where he says, don't eat with people who are stingy, don't desire their delicacies. They're always thinking about how much it costs. So stop right there. And it's like, have you ever been around people that are that way? You can just tell, you know, And so like being a guest of theirs, you know, and they may have a really nice place and but just being around. It is just I've been there, I've lived that that experience. And he says eat and drink. They say, but they don't mean it. And it says you will throw up what little you've eaten, and your compliments will be wasted. I also think of that as poetic. I literally really don't think they need because they're stingy. You're going to vomit up the food, right, Like that's. Not literal, right, It'll make you sick, sick to your stomach kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and your compliments will be wasted. It's just it's really cool. This is a very poetic book for you know, this chapter anyway really cool. Don't waste your breath on fools, for they will despise the wisest advice. Yeah, don't waste your breath right, right, But have you ever tried to Have you ever tried to talk wisdom into a fool? You know, and you can just you know, go on and on on, and it's like, wow, they're gonna have to learn this the hard way. Have you ever been convinced of that somebody will walk out of your office or you know, leave a conversation or maybe they're a part of your family and you're thinking, uh, you know, extended family hopefully, and you're thinking, uh, yeah, this this person's never going to listen to everything that everybody around them is saying. That's awful. Right. Then there are a number of warnings about illicit relationships. Now you remember this is Solomon, King Solomon. He's writing a lot of these things to his son. He mentions it in multiple chapters. So this is a man talking to another a young man. Right. There are immoral men out there too that lead women astray, But in this situation, he's usually writing to his sons, right, don't forsake the teaching of your of you know, oh my son, don't forget you know, my teachings, or a son, make your do. Not forsake the instruction of your father and your mother. Verse twenty six, Oh my son, give me your heart, may your eyes take the light, and following my ways. And then immediately afterwards he says a prostitute is a dangerous trap. So he's talking to his son. Yes, he's not saying that women are bad and men are good, right, he just happens to be talking to a boy right now. So if this was mom talking to a daughter say, hey, watch out, there's some really bad men out there going to take advantage of you. Right. So that's and he's describing what in that day especially, would be promoted as a dangerous trap. So like, for instance, for instance. Like, well, it's also a dangerous trapping this day too. Yes, yes, I understand, but I was I was going to try to put a little bit of a distinction, right. So, so it's you know, the United States, it's illegal, rights, it's illegal, but in that day and age, it was very much a accepted part of culture, right, and so and that's the big that's the big difference between the son, you know, who's uh, he's saying, Okay, this may seem acceptable, but let me let me promise you it's not right. That's right, yep. Yeah. And I just brought that up, the fact that he's talking to his son and that there are bad men out there too, because every once in a while I'll hear somebody say that, you know, the Book of Proverbs is a really sexist, right book. But I would just point out a dad talking to his son this is not unreasonable. No, no, in the same way that a mother talking to her daughter saying hey, watch out this bad man out there. It's the same, but the warnings are it's as dangerous as falling into a narrow well well and there you can't you can get stuck, you can't get out the thing. You're gonna die in this situation. And then often I was thinking. Narrow well would be easier if you if you can climb up, if it's that. Narrow, unless you were stuck like it, couldn't move your arms at all. Yeah, well you know that's a pretty narrow well. Well yeah, how narrow is narrow? Chris? Yeah, yeah, well yeah, yeah yeah. But it says she hides and waits like a robber, eager to make more men unfaithful. It's amazing how often those temptation things are are, so they sneak up on you and next thing you know, this vice just takes over your life that you never planned on. You didn't You thought you were okay, You were okay the first three or four times, and then all of a sudden it starts to take over or whatever. That's that idea that you know, all these kinds of sins tend to hide and wait like a row and they're eager to ruin our lives, and so that's that's a big part of it. And then he pivots from that into alcohol, right, yeah, which is a big one, especially particularly what he's talking about drunkenness here. But they're funny phrases. Who has anguish, who has sorrow, who's always fighting, who's always complaining? Who has unnecessary bruises? Who has bloodshot eyes? Right? I remember when I was working in Chicago, we had a guy that lived on the street, totally consumed by alcohol, and he was constantly complaining about stuff. He was constantly you know, stumbling around, always looking for a fight, ready to fight you for no reason. Right you ever, you ever kind of just walked down the street. Yes, this guy is just kind of out of his mind kind of thing. The descriptions. You know, he's writing to his son again, and what he's saying is, Hey, this is what happens. You see that kind of guy. And you know, one of the things that I feel like my parents did. We went to church in the city of Flint, which you know, at the time was a pretty rough matter of fact, Flint was back in the eighties, the one of the murder capitals of the US. Yeah, there was a lot of drugs, a lot of violence. It was always either Detroit, Flint, or Saint Louis, right with the three cities in Youngstown and Youngstown. Yeah, and uh. So my parents, Hey, by the way, real quick, I'm so sorry to interrupt you. Did you know that Youngstown was so high on murder back when you always tell those mafia stories, you know about people blowing people up in the cars, h that it was actually Nicknawn murdered, nicknamed Murdertown, USA. And it made the front page of like the USA LA because apparently in the post office somebody from Texas mailed a letter, like an actual snail mail letter, and for the for the city just put Murdertown, USA and made it to the addressing nextown. So the people in the post office knew what they meant, right, and it made it to that address. Wow, anyway, is that crazy? Yeah? So anyways, what you see him do here is he's saying, hey, watch out for the see that prostitute over there, watch out, that's going to ruin your life. Then he says, hey, see that guy that's fighting with everybody and walking around just wailing and crying and struggling and he's stumbling around like he's a sailor tossed on the sea, and and you know, all these things he would use. Solomon is using real illustrations to point things out for his kids. And my mom and dad would do that. My mom would my mom and dad would always say, I remember one time, this was a really big thing for me. I remember the first time I saw a grown man with wet pants. He wet himself, wow, right, stumbling down the street, yelling and being weird. And my parents pointed that out, and my mom says, you know, that's what happens to you when you give yourself over to some chemical that takes over your mind and body. And she said, you know, we always have compassion for them. Maybe he has some kind of a depression or some kind of problem and he's trying to drink away his problems, but it doesn't make it better. Look so, whatever issue this driving him to alcohol does not make his life better, right, and it's not going to make your life better either. And so they would always say, we need to have compassion for people who are struggling. There's never a ooh, they're a gross and we're good. It was always how sad. Is this that Otherwise that's somebody's son, and now he's living on the street, and he's wet in his own pants, and he's out there swinging at the wind and stumbling down the road, down the street. Don't be that, right, And so I always had this sense that we should help and find a way to help them, not judge, but at the same time learn real lessons. And I think that that's one of the things that we read yesterday about, you know, train up a child, and we should go One of the things you see Solomon doing is using real illustrations of real circumstances to point out for their own kids. Hey, this is a learning lesson. Don't don't go down your path? Right, that's great. Well, hey, that is just about our time, and what a great chapter. Yeah, and so we're going to continue on in Proverbs and hopefully you'll join us for the journey tomorrow on the Bupple Grays