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How do you correct behavior in a child with significant trauma in their past? Lt. Wayland Cubit and his guest, Amber Given with the HALO Project discuss a revolutionary new technique for disciplining in an honoring way both to the mentor and the mentee. FACT went through Trust-Based Relational Intervention (TBRI) training and now Lt. Cubit is partnering with Amber Given to discuss the practicals behind utilizing this technique.
Show Notes
How do you correct behavior in a child with significant trauma in their past? Lt. Wayland Cubit and his guest, Amber Given with the HALO Project discuss a revolutionary new technique for disciplining in an honoring way both to the mentor and the mentee. FACT went through Trust-Based Relational Intervention (TBRI) training and now Lt. Cubit is partnering with Amber Given to discuss the practicals behind utilizing this technique.
Find out more about the HALO Project:
https://haloprojectokc.com
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Find out more about the HALO Project:
https://haloprojectokc.com
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles
Speaker 2:and give
Speaker 1:you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Welcome to You Can Mentor. My name is Wayland Cubitt. I am referred to commonly in Oklahoma as a master mentor, but I am so grateful to be hosting today's conversation of you can mentor. Now, listen, I got to tell you, I've been in the mentoring game for a long time, and I'm always looking for ways to kinda get an edge on my game, and I think I found it. And not only did I find a little way to put a little edge on my mentoring skills, but I thought I could share that with my team.
Speaker 2:And so my team and a whole and you gotta know my team is a group of police officers, full time police officers. We, mentor here in Oklahoma City, and we just wanted something to help us kinda deal with kids that are experiencing trauma, that we know that experience trauma. And, well, we looked around and looked around, and we come across someone right in our backyard that is kinda teaching tools and and skills on how to do trauma based mentoring. Well, I'm calling it trauma based mentoring. That's not exactly what it is, but that's how we're using it.
Speaker 2:Anyway, The Halo Project The Halo Project was created in 2013 out of a need to expressed that was expressed by Oklahoma Foster and adoptive parents. Parents were, like, tired and frustrated and confused and ready to give up. And I understand this feeling because I myself have has have been a foster parent on 8 different occasions. So I get it. Foster adopt the parents, I feel you out there.
Speaker 2:And so traditional parenting methods and counseling settings were not proving to be successful, and I get that too. So to meet that need, the halo program was created to heal to heal foster and adoptive families. In addition to their foster programs and the OTCC, HALO took on the challenge of creating an intervention for at risk populations in 2017, and the goal here was to keep children with their families of origin and stop the generational cycle of abuse. HALO is now successfully addressing the needs of Oklahoman's most vulnerable children on an individual level and a systematic level in the area of prevention. Now that OTCC, this Oklahoma TBR Collaborative For Children.
Speaker 2:Now the goal is to transform the worlds that impacts our children, produce a cultural change within the child welfare system that enables those who touch a child's life to make decisions based on the practices of trauma informed care. Now we hear all this stuff about trauma based, trauma this, trauma that, but TBI stands for trust based relational intervention. And I happen to run across an expert, a trained individual in TBRI. And I first heard about TBRI from a podcast, imagine that, where a police officer was talking about his work in TBRI. Then I heard a couple of guys that that that sound like they were working in a school with really rough kids, and they were talking about TBRI.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, okay. Let me find out. And and I found it in Texas, and I stumbled across my friend who joins me today, Amber Given. Hi, Amber.
Speaker 3:Hi.
Speaker 2:Okay. You're gonna teach teach us all about this. Well, let me let me share a little bit about Amber. She's a licensed professional counselor who's now the clinical director at Halo Yes. Here in Oklahoma City.
Speaker 2:She also she's she's well skilled. She has tons of education in this area, a lot of training, but she also has a private practice where she provides individual and family counseling. She has spent the bulk of her career providing services to at risk youth and families. And after learning about the depth the deep levels of healing accomplished by using connective parenting, she joined Halo, the team where she serves as the clinical director, trainer, and therapist. And Amber considers it a privilege to be helping hurting children and families, finding healing through various modalities.
Speaker 2:She's learned over this span of her career, and she walked in and put it on us. And now we are hook, line, and sinker in TBRI. Thanks for taking some time out with me.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having
Speaker 2:me. Okay. Halo, Amber, TBRI, police. How in the world did we get here?
Speaker 3:I think we got here because our community is really hurting. And if you kind of look at at my journey into TBRI or trust based relational intervention, what was happening was that I was a therapist working with kids who'd had great harm. And so what I was doing wasn't working, and I actually started to back out of the work. And in fact, we had adopted a young man, and what I had been trained to do wasn't working with him as well. And Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay. So you that's how that's how you got us hooked in with this story. And so you gotta tell the story because I I called up Amber, and I said, Amber, I heard about I've seen on the website TBRI. Can you come? I don't know if this is the right fit for police officers.
Speaker 2:I really don't because, you know, we don't let outsiders train us normally. Come tell us about it, and you sit down and you start telling us your personal story with the young man you adopted. Mhmm. Walk me down the street. Tell them.
Speaker 2:Keep pull them in. Yeah. Pull them in.
Speaker 3:So I heard about TBRI in the community, and what I heard, I was really skeptical about because I had been a therapist, I think, at 15 years at this point, working in social services 20. And I just really there's always the new latest and greatest model that someone says, oh, try this, try this. And so what I had done was I had used all of those modalities or all those models. And, failing the kids at at work, failing the kids and families, not seeing the deep levels of healing. And then I was going home, and there was a young man that we had adopted.
Speaker 3:He'd been in foster care from the age of 3 to 10 and had at least 14 different caregivers that we know of. And so what was happening was that nothing anywhere I was was working. So not at home, not at work. And I actually started to kind of back out professionally of some of this work. And then I heard about TBRI.
Speaker 3:And, again, I was initially pretty skeptical, but the amazing thing was that I was in a training providing a training to some foster parents about compassion fatigue. And right after me, Cindy Lee, she was there speaking about TBRI. And so I stayed and I listened, and it struck me that this was actually something that was different and may actually help. And so, you know, I don't know what people's faith is or their belief system, but as I would I would see it is that God put us in a hallway right after that together, just the 2 of us. And I just said to Cindy, hey.
Speaker 3:Like, I love what you had to say about TBRI, about trust based relational intervention. This sounds amazing, but here's the thing. I don't think it would work with our kiddo. So, you know and and she was so gracious and just so connected and so kind and TBR ed me right on the spot. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. She used it on me. Yeah.
Speaker 3:She used it on me right then in that 15 or 20 minutes. And she just said, hey. Like, can you tell me one thing that you would like to see different about your relationship with your son? And I said, absolutely. Like, I would love be able to hug him or, you know, tell him I love him and have him receive that because he people can't be trusted.
Speaker 3:People aren't safe. And he's been through a lot of people that have basically said, you know, move on.
Speaker 2:Now how how old was he at this time?
Speaker 3:At this time, he was about 15 years old.
Speaker 2:Wow. Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And so she gave me some just basic strategies from TBRI. And I was really underwhelmed initially. And I thought, well, what's this gonna do? Like, this is not this does not seem like some great intervention, but I'm I'm desperate for this kid at this point.
Speaker 2:Do you do you remember what they were?
Speaker 3:Like Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So, she said, you know that the the difference between the upstairs and the downstairs part of the brain? And I just said I kind of looked at her and I said, yes.
Speaker 3:And I was like, no. What are you talking about? And she just said, well, the upstairs part of your brain is problem solving, logic, reasoning, creative thinking, like, those kind of things. And the downstairs is fight, flight, or freeze. And so what you're gonna do is when he's laughing and in the upstairs part of his brain, you're going to do a symbolic touch.
Speaker 3:Because if you think about it, every time I went to go touch him, he was in distress. And every time he was in distress, people were hurting him. So it makes sense why he would recoil. Right? And so and because of my own history, I didn't nurture outside of that.
Speaker 3:I only nurtured in times of distress. And so I I went home, and I did symbolic touch when he was laughing. And he looked at me weird. It's just you kind of hover over a person, like their arm. Like, you're not touching them.
Speaker 3:You just kind of hover. And so I did that, and he gave me the strangest look. And then I did this over and over and over again, and, eventually, I was okay to put my hand on his arm. And then, eventually, I was okay to hug him. And then, eventually and I'm talking 2 months down the road.
Speaker 3:All of a sudden, he would let me hug him and tell him I loved him.
Speaker 2:And this
Speaker 3:is I've known this kid, like, at 7 years at this point. And so this is the best we've done, and this took about 2 months. And so if you fast forward a little bit more, I'm packing up to go down to Texas Christian University, the KPICD, the Karen Purvis
Speaker 2:Institute
Speaker 3:Karen Purvis Institute for Child Development. Right? So I'm packing up, and I'm getting ready to go down there to to go to the week long practitioner training, the TBI practitioner training. And and and and he comes to find me. My son comes to find me.
Speaker 3:And people who don't understand kids with trauma don't understand the significance of that. Like, he came to find me. And before it was like, I always had to go to him. Right? And so he came to find me, and he said, hey.
Speaker 3:Are you are you going to that training, that TBR training? And I said, yeah. And I said, I'm really excited about it. And he said, oh, okay. Well, I just wanted to say I love you, and I'm gonna miss you.
Speaker 3:And he put his head on my shoulder and hugged me. And I it took everything I had not to just, like, lose my mind and just start bawling at that point. And so for us, the journey with TBRI was amazing. And all of a sudden, it was all the things I never knew that he always needed.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:That that the needs got met. And all of a sudden, there was a different kiddo on our hands that could make friends and follow rules and be respectful and, you know, like, just love other people well and and receive that love back.
Speaker 2:Now when you go through the practitioner training, were you challenged by how you were raised? Because I noticed when we we were in the training and and we took, what, 15 or maybe 20 of us. I don't know. It was it was a it's a good room of all law enforcement that did this training together. It was I can see in the questions that everybody was saying, I was raised differently than that stuff you're talking about, and I turned out okay.
Speaker 3:Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Were you confronted with how you were raised when you were as you were going through this like we were?
Speaker 3:100% so. So what I think is really interesting is that I kind of got out of the harm of my childhood and ended up with a bachelor and a master's degree and a license in counseling. And so for me, it was like, well, I did my work. Right? And so what I didn't know is there's this thing called attachment.
Speaker 3:And so it's a blueprint for how you do relationships. And what I learned throughout the course of this was that it wasn't my son that needed to change, it was me. It had to start with me first. And so I had to learn a completely new way of being. Right?
Speaker 3:Because I was very I was a a parent that was raised on performance. So if I performed well, I got lots of respect and lots of attention by by family members and in the community, and there was nothing to ever honor my preciousness. It was all based on your worth as a 100% tied up in your schoolwork and your sports performance. Right? Like, that's where it's at.
Speaker 3:And so, and so, yeah, I had to really look at going back and learning how to, like, honor preciousness over over performance.
Speaker 2:Man, that okay. So we gotta talk about that. Because when I asked the officers to kinda give me some things that stood out after the training, that's what that's like one of the things that came out, preciousness versus performance. And and they're trying to figure out when they're operating in 1 or the other. Can you give us an example that we know what it looks like?
Speaker 2:Okay. You you you did great, and you made all your free throws. Or Yeah. You made the team, you know, good job, you you know, performance. You got a good grade performance.
Speaker 2:What is preciousness? How do we what is that?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So preciousness is the quality that I think of when we are around babies. And we are looking at them, and it's just we're just enjoying them. Babies don't really do anything. We are just in you know, we're kind of just holding space for who they are and and just loving them well.
Speaker 3:And so it's just for for kids, it's simply, I really enjoy spending time with you. I have a lot of fun being around you. I love seeing you smile. It's honoring all of the things that it's not what they do. It's who they are.
Speaker 2:Okay. That's a that's a big one in in you know, we try to say we try to make sure that as a supervisor, if it does mentoring groups and we've started I mean, we had, like, 25 kids here just last night. And so the like, how do we make sure that every one of those kids feels like they're special? Because it's hard because the ones that stand out are the ones that's performing well. And so it really is hard in a group mentoring sense setting to show everybody that we want them here.
Speaker 2:We like them, that kind of stuff because we the natural tendency is to gravitate to those people that are performing well.
Speaker 3:Yes. It's easy to be in a relationship with people that are easy to be in a relationship with. Alright? Yeah. That's right.
Speaker 2:And so when mentoring, what's the tip in that scenario? What do you give those mentor organizations? What tip do you give them to not ignore the great performance? Because they they I mean, I don't they they're here too.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:But how do we force ourselves into the preciousness of the one that's not performing?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So so for that kiddo, what I would say is that and and every kiddo that walks through your door, it starts from the the second that you have contact. Right? So I used to be somebody that was very much like, let me show you like, let me let's get the paperwork done, and let's, like, get everything all buttoned up. Right?
Speaker 3:And now it's like from the word go, you are intentionally present and relational with every person that walks through that door. And the way that you do that is just really some basic things that I think we've forgotten as a community. And that's, you know, simply, like, eye contact. And, you know, your voice quality is so kind and warm and inviting. Right?
Speaker 3:You do symbolic touch or fist bumps or whatever kind of work. So it's all about just making sure that those kids are seen, heard, and valued, that you are there, and that you're holding space for them, and that you're present, and that you're just honoring them as a person and not necessarily just because they do what you think they should do.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I kinda decided a few years ago. I was sitting here working, doing my thing, and one of my supervisors came into the building. And they didn't really want anything. They're just stopping by, really, to just use the facilities on on their way somewhere else.
Speaker 2:And I stopped what I was doing. I jumped up. I shook their hand. I greeted them, asked them what they needed, how the day was going, and then out they went. And and it was really kind of a disruption to what I was doing.
Speaker 2:I was in the groove. I was in I was in Excel spreadsheet. I was in the groove. Right? Right.
Speaker 2:So my thing ma'am. And and and they had to feel big and important because I stopped everything for them. And it made me think, and I went, okay. I got this big window. I can see everybody that comes in.
Speaker 2:The next kid that comes in, I'm gonna treat them like my supervisor. And it's a big disruption, but now every kid that comes in looks in the window and comes to me. I don't have to go out to them. I stand up. I greet them.
Speaker 2:I don't stay seated. I greet them. And without having the language that you now give us but but we now know that when from the time they walk in, their preciousness is I see you. I see you, and it's worth stopping everything for you for just this brief second to shake your hand and see you and let you know that I'm glad you're here. Right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Well done. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And and that was before training. So I'm just saying that.
Speaker 3:I mean, I walked in and met your team and and knew immediately there was something different about your team. Right?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Right. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But so tell me what the naysayers. Because I have to we we we felt the naysayers in the room during the training. Yeah. We can feel it. I mean, they weren't completely, like, no.
Speaker 2:I'm not part of this, but they were throwing stones at the at the information or the processes. What does the common naysayers say about the TBI approach?
Speaker 3:Right. So what's really interesting is your initial question was, like, how did we end up here, right, with the police learning TBI? And what I will tell you is that it started with one person who was really on fire for TBI in the state, and what she did worked, and people saw that. And so then people asked, And then we had spread out into the schools, and it spread it just kept spreading. Right?
Speaker 3:Outside of foster care and adopt outside of the foster care and adoption world. Right? And so there's we've met a lot of naysayers along the way and, in fact, are looking at 1. So I was I was initially a huge naysayer. And the reason that I was a naysayer was that that it challenged me to do things differently.
Speaker 3:So before, it was kind of like how I can as an adult, how can I get this kid to change their behavior? What what do they need to do? Right? How can I make that happen? And now it's this kid's really hurting, and what do they need and how can I help them?
Speaker 3:And so it's just a really big shift in it it starts with me. And we don't wanna start with us because we've all arrived. I mean, we're not perfect, but we all think that we've arrived, and we're successful, and we're happy, and we're yeah. We're doing all these things. But, really, you know, we don't we don't know how to do that basic skill of, like, holding space for people and connecting with people.
Speaker 3:And so a lot of it is fear. Right? So if you're asking me to do something different, I have to really take a look at me and my history and why I do the things that I do. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. There was a there was a one point well, maybe maybe 2 points. The question even started with, hey. My mom did me this way, and I turned out okay.
Speaker 2:In fact, one said, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I disciplined my kid this way, and they got all of these performance. They did all of this performance stuff.
Speaker 2:They've they made it to college. They're doing this. They're doing that. And I did it opposite of what you're talking about. So why is this?
Speaker 2:Is this just for kids that have experienced trauma, or would you say, no. Employ this to keep from traumatizing your kids. I don't know what
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So what I would say
Speaker 3:is that TBRI, trust based relational intervention, is really about being really happy, healthy, whole human beings. And so it's just really a way of being and relationally meeting needs in a way that I don't know that we've known before. So we were talking about kind of the naysayers who say, hey. I turned out okay. Like, look at me, and I thought that same thing.
Speaker 3:Right? But if you looked at me professionally, I was really solid or so I thought. Right? Yeah. Because I was, like, meeting all the the, like, achievement pieces.
Speaker 3:But if you looked at me personally, I really didn't know how to be really relational with people, and I did not know how to nurture people. And I actually thought that that was a weakness. So the things that actually are really healthy in human beings, I thought that I didn't need. Right? Because I'm an island into myself, and I'm very performance driven.
Speaker 3:And, relationally, if you would ask my family, right, hey. Is she nurturing? They would have said, she's nice. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I'll never forget to ask my husband that. Hey. Am I nurturing? And he said, you're really kind, and you do kind things for the family. And I'm like, yeah.
Speaker 3:But am I nurturing? There's a difference. And he was like, no. You don't know
Speaker 2:how
Speaker 3:to do that very well. Right. And that crushed me and that broke my heart because all of a sudden, I realized I hadn't done like, I could tell you my trauma history, but the attachment pieces, like, I hadn't figured out or or or started to move anywhere toward healing. So, yes, we can be successful, but we can also relationally not be where we would really want, which was is to be known by other people and to know other people. Right?
Speaker 3:We all wanna be known.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Man, that's so good. So I'm gonna throw out some stuff that popped out of the training. I went back knowing that we were gonna talk today.
Speaker 2:I went back and said, alright. Officer a, b, c, tell me what your takeaways are from the TBAR training, and have you applied it at all? Have you used it at all? Do you feel like you're using it? And one person said honestly, they said, the the times that I attempted to think about in using it, it really did seem to make a difference.
Speaker 2:But I feel like I need coaching every week to remind me how to do it or when to do it because I get in scenarios, and I'm like, I don't know how this scenario fits my training. So one, somebody wants a refresher course.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like that like, I think it'll work, but I forget. I don't know how this scenario would fit into that
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Into that thing.
Speaker 3:And can I can I say this to you, though? So when I learned TBR, number 1 is I surrounded myself by people who knew TBR really well.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And they did coaching with me. Right? And then the other thing is that it was just a constant, like, mindfulness piece and being reminded and surrounding myself with the the the information. Right? So whether it's a video or it's a podcast, whatever it is.
Speaker 3:And then the other piece is you try lots of stuff, and some things work and some things don't. And then you take that back to somebody who specializes in TBI and say, this this was a bomb, and I don't know why. And then you kind of problem solve, and then you have a little bit more information. So it's really a, like, a try and succeed, try and fail kind of model. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We wanna plug somebody from your team
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:In here all the time. But they but when when I went back and talked to them, they said there's some things that stood out, like, in our notes that they would kinda like to dive in more. And so here's one of them. I'm just gonna toss them out and you just you just go to teaching.
Speaker 3:Great.
Speaker 2:Alright. Hurt people. People are harmed by relationships.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Are healed by relationships. Yes. Yes. That's it.
Speaker 3:So yeah. So, I mean, when you think about it, so if I cry and no one comes or I cry and I get hit or I cry and my need is a bottle, but instead, I get a diaper change. Right? Like, I'm not I'm people are not reading my cues right. People are not meeting my needs.
Speaker 3:People are not safe. The world is not predictable. Right? I'm not okay. Right?
Speaker 3:So that is the harm. So we just people can't be trusted.
Speaker 2:So I
Speaker 3:can't be in relationship with people, and I can't get my needs met. And so the only way to really heal that is to have a safe person that then you can relationally heal that trauma from. Right? So it takes one person. That's what's really great about mentoring is we know that it takes one person that what can change the trajectory of the of the life of another person.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We've always say this in mentoring, like, one positive care in a
Speaker 3:group. 1. 1.
Speaker 2:But they can be positive and caring and still miss all of those tips or clues to what's missing in that person's relationship or what what what harms their relationship prior to meeting us.
Speaker 3:Right. Right?
Speaker 2:And so TBI is kinda focusing us to to kinda go through the x's and o's and find out where the hurt was and then fill that gap in with the heel.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Oh, man. It's good. That's good. I almost sound professional, but I'm not I'm not just learning. You do.
Speaker 2:You do. You separate. So group mentoring, we have a lot of, a lot of groups that listen to this podcast are are hosting weekly, if not daily, after school programs, mentoring programs, you you name it. But you all talked a little bit about creating felt safety. Break felt safety down and and try to help us apply it to the group mentoring setting.
Speaker 3:Okay. So we know what safety is. Right? Like, if I walk into a building or down in the street or I know what feeling safe or or being safe feels like. Right?
Speaker 3:There's this concept of felt safety, which is I'm trying to think of the best way to describe this. Let me give you an example. If I, felt safety, just because I'm safe doesn't mean I feel safe.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:So if I like, let's say I'll give you an example of 1 of my my kiddos, one of my clients. So young man harmed greatly in a home, a biological home, now in a foster home. Foster parent walks in in the middle of the night to put a blanket on him because he's cold. He shoots out of bed. Now he's actually safe.
Speaker 3:There's no harm happening in the home. He's going to school. He has clothes. He has food. Physically, is he safe?
Speaker 3:Yes. Does he feel safe? No. So it's the matter of, am I safe? Yes.
Speaker 3:But do I actually feel in home? There's a big difference. Right.
Speaker 2:So how do I create felt safety in a group metrics setting? What's the what's the approach?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So it's gonna start really with the connecting pieces of TBRI, and those are, really broken down really easily into the engagement strategies. So there's a couple of things. Number 1 is we have to make sure we do all the things that that we need to do to connect with people. Right?
Speaker 3:So, you know, soft eyes, you know, warm and inviting eyes, really nice voice quality, healthy touch, character phrases where we talk about their preciousness, not just their performance. Right? And so those are the things that we need to be doing. Right? But we also need to have lots of play because we know that when people play and when people are playful, kids will be in the upstairs part of their brain.
Speaker 3:And when they're in the upstairs part of the brain, that's where a lot of healing will happen. That's where a lot of connection can happen. That's where a lot of, like, learning can happen. And so in every way, we try to make sure people are seen, heard, and valued when they walk in the door. We meet basic needs.
Speaker 3:So I'm always gonna have a snack and a water. Like, always We
Speaker 2:always eat. Always. Yeah. Every program in the nation has food. So we Food
Speaker 3:and water. Yep. You always have it. Right? And then lots of play because that's that's the language of kids.
Speaker 2:Right. Okay. So we we we we create this felt safety. Now now I think you've helped some people identify why it is kids that are acting a certain way when they shouldn't feel a certain way.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Like yeah. That's that's the that's the absent of felt safety.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:I get it. I get it. Now there was and I'm not sure if this was the definition that you guys used, but but we truly identify with at least I did in the group interim setting is we have a kid or multiple kids that come in on a on a weekly basis, and we kinda do the same thing almost all the time. But here's what we get. What are we doing tonight?
Speaker 2:What time are we eating? What's next? What's gonna I mean, like and, you know, I was kind of rolling my eyes like, bro, every week, we do the same thing. But what is it with that?
Speaker 3:So I will tell you that that I love that you talked about this because this is another piece of the felt safety, which is predictability Yes. Equals safety. So they wanna know what's happening because the world has been so chaotic, and at every turn, the rug's pulled out from under them or a lot of turns. Right? So when they have a schedule and they know what's happening next, what's happening next, what's happening next, then when all of a sudden what happens is they feel safer.
Speaker 3:And so even though you have the same schedule over and over and over again, just because they're safe doesn't mean they feel safe. So what they're saying to you is, am I safe here? What's happening? Is it gonna be the same? Are you changing things up on me?
Speaker 3:Like, what's going on? Who are you people? Right? Can you be trusted? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Can you be trusted?
Speaker 2:So this was a big I missed this one. I missed this one up a lot because what what I was doing was I was reading teenagers. What they were asking me is, okay. Tell me what we're doing today because I wanna decide whether or not I wanna spend time with you today based on what you got planned today.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:What are you feeding? What are you eating? What's the movie we're watching? What activity are we playing? What game are we playing?
Speaker 2:Who's gonna be here? All those questions, I took it to say, oh, you're just trying to judge so you can escape and make up a reason why you can't be here. But it could be totally different.
Speaker 3:They're being good detectives. Right? To use your language, they're being good detectives, and they're saying, like, what's gonna happen here? Am I okay? Do I matter?
Speaker 3:Will I be known here? Will my voice matter and be heard?
Speaker 2:So since the training, I've been answering the question. Before I was just kind of like, hey. You'll see you'll see what's happening. You're gonna have a good time. Relax, chill.
Speaker 2:It's coming. You know, I kind of but but now I go, we're gonna eat at 5:30. Yeah. Yeah. We're having pizza.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And afterwards, we're gonna play this game that I'm gonna really need your attention on because I want you to lead a part of the activity. Yeah. You know? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 3:Well done. Well done. And I think I think it's okay too for mentors to say, it makes so much sense that you would wonder that. Like, every week, you can say, it makes so much sense that you would ask that. Here's what we're doing.
Speaker 2:See? There you go some language. Yeah. Thank you. Right.
Speaker 2:Alright. Transitions transition formula. Yes. Transition formula. Yes.
Speaker 2:I cannot remember, but one of the officers said, yeah. You should ask her about transition formula.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I love the transition formula. So Cindy Lee has such a such a gifting in regards to developing taking kind of a concept and creating, like, something really tangible, something that you can actually do. Right? So you have your theory, and then she can actually take it and break it down and tell you how to actually implement the theory and make it work.
Speaker 3:Right? So this whole concept of the the, the transition formula, this is what's happening, is that when if you think about kids, there's a lot of disruptive behavior or dysregulated behavior when they're transitioning. So if you look at you're even transitioning from one thing that's fun to another thing that's fun, and kids sometimes get really dysregulated, and we're thinking why. Like, why is this happening? What's happening is that they're really focused on something that's going well, excuse me, that's working for them, and they feel really safe, and they know what's happening.
Speaker 3:And you are asking them to take their focus off of that safe thing and move it onto something else which is unknown. And what we know about a lot of our kids is the unknown
Speaker 2:is
Speaker 3:often really harmful. So it's not just a transition from dinner to foosball. Right? Right. And foosball to group work and group work to out the door.
Speaker 3:It's actually it actually does something I mean, it really stirs up things deep within them. And so Cindy created this transition formula, and I think it's really helpful because it makes a lot of sense to me. So in her formula, what she's doing is instead of asking a kid to move from one thing to the other, we're asking the kid to to leave that thing, connect with me, and then move together. Because that really feels a lot safer. Right?
Speaker 2:How does that sound? How does that look?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So okay. So I'll just give an example of a a girl in my office who did not wanna leave because she was playing Play Doh. And so what she did is she she ignored me. Right?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And so I wanted to give more structure. And then she ignored me more, and I wanted to give more structure. Right? And so my voice gets slower and like, as far as my tone, but I get louder and, like, I'm a little more like, my posture changes. Right?
Speaker 3:And so what's happening is is that she's having a hard time letting go of that thing and moving out the door. Right? So all of a sudden, I remember, TBRI. I'm missing I'm missing the mark here. Right?
Speaker 3:I need to be mindful and present. What's happening? And so I go in and I connect with her first. And I say, I can tell you really like playing playing Play Doh. You're making some beautiful things.
Speaker 3:Like, I love like, oh, you I can tell you love purple because you use so much purple. And she looks at me and she goes, uh-huh. And I was like, that's so much fun. I'll tell you what, why the best idea ever? Why don't we put them in the little canisters and hide them, and then the next time you come back, you can find them?
Speaker 3:And all of a sudden, I get the little girl who is focused on the Play Doh, doesn't wanna leave because she doesn't know what harm's gonna happen after there if there is. Right? If she's safe. Right. And so all of a sudden, she's in the upstairs part of her brain.
Speaker 3:We're connected, and she's moving. And so I'll tell you the formula looks like this. You get their attention. So you get a child's attention and say, hey. What's happening next is in 5 more minutes, we're going to go play basketball.
Speaker 3:Right? Mhmm. And you make sure you get eyes. When we holler over at kids, it's not gonna work. We actually have to be front and center in front them because we wanna get eyes.
Speaker 3:Right? The next thing is we we're gonna mention what's gonna happen next. Because remember, predictability equals safety. So if I tell them what's happening next, they're more inclined to make the move. Right?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Then the next thing that we're gonna do is I'm gonna go to them, connect with them again. Hey. Like like, let's say they're playing foosball. Nice shot. Like, okay.
Speaker 3:We're getting ready to move to the the the, you know, the basketball court. And then all of a sudden, I'm distracting them with anything. It could be what we had for dinner. It could be what the shot they just made in foosball. It could be what they're really good at on the basketball court.
Speaker 3:And so, basically, I'm taking them off of something that they're really enjoying, and I'm connecting with them and getting them onto me, and I'm I'm helping them move to the next thing. So it's get their attention, mention what's gonna happen next, act, and then distract.
Speaker 2:Man. Okay. Those are very, very, very good tools. Now and we're I'm gonna go back and listen to this because I need to I need to practice my transition stuff, because it is usually it is usually 5 minutes and cut it off. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I used to think, like, but I gave you the warning. Like, you know what's gonna happen. Move it along. Right?
Speaker 2:Yes. Yeah. Yes. Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, I'm missing I got the the warning piece.
Speaker 3:I got
Speaker 2:the Right. Who's winning? Yeah. Who's winning in the in okay. You're winning.
Speaker 2:Oh, that was a great shot. Y'all got 5 minutes, and then you need to cut the game off because we're starting this next thing.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And then that
Speaker 2:was it.
Speaker 3:That was me. Right?
Speaker 2:That was it.
Speaker 3:That was it. And now you go back in and connect again and then get them off of that down to you, and then you can move. Yeah. So good. So good.
Speaker 2:So good. We're we're doing that. Alright. The big thing the big thing that we need to talk about And this is for, I think, mentors and mentor group. We have a really big problem with oh, the questions I get a lot is how do I correct this behavior without losing my friendship?
Speaker 2:Yes. How do I hold them accountable? I don't wanna be their parent. Right. I wanna be their mentor.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. And and so I feel like counselors and therapists also have to deal with, you know, holding people accountable.
Speaker 3:Yes. A 100% agree.
Speaker 2:100%.
Speaker 3:Yeah. We're not just gushy, feely, whatevers.
Speaker 2:Right. You say something. You you you're trying to achieve this goal. We're trying to help you achieve this goal, and it feels like you're resisting me and you're not take alright. So correction tips.
Speaker 3:Correction tips. Okay. So the first thing I will say about correction is that you will not need to correct very much when you're highly connected because you have money in the bank. So I can't go correct a bunch of kids that I don't have relationship with. So you need to work really, really hard on the on the connecting pieces.
Speaker 3:So I know in our program, it's a 10 week program, our intensive program. We don't teach correcting until the 8th week. There is a reason. Because if we teach correcting before that, people jump immediately to correcting, because we all want behavior corrected. Right?
Speaker 3:Mhmm. We want it instant. We want it done. And so, first of all, don't forget your connecting pieces. So a lot of low level disrespectful behavior can simply be redirected 70 to 80% of the time with something called a redo.
Speaker 3:It's very playful. It's very light. What I love about TBRI is that we don't have corrections that don't align with the behavior. So, like, you talked back to me, you lose Xbox time. Like, that doesn't teach the skill.
Speaker 3:What it taught was, I'll punish you. Like, right? Like, you did this to me, and I'll do this back to you. It doesn't teach a skill. So in TBRI, it's simple as if I tell a kid, hey.
Speaker 3:It's it's time to come to the table. Like, we're all gonna grab dinner. I don't wanna eat dinner. It's like, oh, let's try that again. Right?
Speaker 3:Like so I'm always thinking, like, number 1 is, can I playfully redirect and just get some respect? Right? Because that's what I wanted. What I wanted was and yeah. Be like, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I'm coming. Or I want them to use their words to let me know what's going on, why they don't wanna move. So I will tell you that most of the time, if you playfully redirect and you just say, hey. Let's try that again.
Speaker 3:It's called a redo. Right? A do over, a rewind, play it again. There's all kinds of things you can call it. But, really, in TBRI language, it's it's redo.
Speaker 3:And so it's just simply, let's try that again. And sometimes we have to actually teach this before we ask them to do it. So for the mentors, what I would say is don't ask a kid to do a redo until you've done some yourself. So you so you actually have to like, I'll I'll be pretty pretty abrupt with a kid, or I'll be really kind of quickly sassy, or, like, I might snatch something from them because I wanna show them something, and I'll go, woah. Wait a second.
Speaker 3:That was not okay. Let me try that again. And I hand them back the thing, and then, hey, may I have that and show it to you? Or let me try this again.
Speaker 2:You throw a flag on
Speaker 3:yourself Absolutely.
Speaker 2:In front of them and see what they get to see you make the correction.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Right? Right. I can even I can even fabricate this.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. I do it all the time in the office. I'll I'll actually stand up and start walking out the room and say, woah. I'm so sorry. That was so disrespectful.
Speaker 3:I was leaving the room without telling you what was happening. I'm gonna try this again. Hey. I'm getting ready to go get a book for you that I think you would
Speaker 2:really love. I'll be right back. Oh. Right? Or That's fire right there,
Speaker 3:girl.
Speaker 2:That's fire. So so this is what I what I've done. I didn't I didn't have to call
Speaker 3:a redo.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'm gonna now call it a redo. Or maybe maybe maybe it's something else. But let me tell you what happened. So a kid will give me some of this immediate disrespect.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:And I will you know, the look, of course, you know, I can't the parent look like, woah. Did you just No. You didn't. No. You didn't.
Speaker 2:You're like, did you just do that? Like Right. Right. So there's that look that you can't I probably can't hide. Probably no adult can can can really hide it less with it really, really practice.
Speaker 2:But there's that look.
Speaker 3:That's time for redo.
Speaker 2:It's time for redo.
Speaker 3:I mean, if you give the look Yes. You say, woah. I just gave you a look. I'm gonna try this again. K.
Speaker 3:So there's your I mean, so it
Speaker 2:starts with you. But some of these kids Yeah. Amber are they do some stuff that shock you. Right? The look is not, like, planned.
Speaker 2:It's like, woah. Right. Okay. Yes.
Speaker 3:You can do a redo. Okay. I can
Speaker 2:do a redo. Yeah. So I'll check. I'm writing it down. Okay.
Speaker 2:Alright. But then I go, alright. Young man, young woman Mhmm. Can you help me understand what I did to deserve what you just gave me?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So you're asking for the why behind the behavior?
Speaker 2:Yes. Yeah. Yes. What what what did I do to deserve the disrespect you just gave? I feel really disrespect disrespected by the way you just did whatever it is you did.
Speaker 2:Yeah. What did I do to deserve that? Because I don't wanna do that. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And that works for you.
Speaker 2:And they automatically redo it most of the time. Yeah. They apologize, and they redo it on them all by themselves.
Speaker 3:So here's what I love is that TBRI is very organic.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And sometimes it's really hard because TBRI is organic. So what you found is is you found a language that works for you in a way that working with these kids works for them. Right? Mhmm. So you've basically just asked for a redo without using the word redo.
Speaker 2:And without doing my own redo with with my look. So Right.
Speaker 3:And so you yeah. And you can say, like like, hey. You know what? Like, what so, basically, we all want the right response, but there's always a reason behind behavior. Like, behavior doesn't just pop up.
Speaker 3:All behavior has purpose. Right? So we need to see the need behind the behavior. So if a simple basic redo works, great. And and what you're doing is you're stopping and you're saying, this is not okay.
Speaker 3:Like, what did I do to deserve it? The kids are like, nothing. And then they're like, yes, sir. And And so
Speaker 2:And every once in a while not every time, but every once in a while, a few kids have said, you know, you didn't do anything, but I was mad at the teacher. Yeah. K. But what did the teacher do? And then and then now we're into a whole deeper conversation that happened hours ago or a couple days ago.
Speaker 3:All behavior is purpose.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And so you're you're we call it see the need, meet the need. Right?
Speaker 2:See the need,
Speaker 3:meet the need. Right? Before it was just for me, it was like, how can I get that kid to knock that off? Now it's like, that kid's really hurting. What do they need, and how can I help them?
Speaker 2:Man, golden. Alright. So we went from redo Mhmm. To choices and compromise.
Speaker 3:Love choices and compromise.
Speaker 2:All in correcting tips.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. So choices and compromises. What I love about choices and compromises is that we're really skill building with the kids. Because as as an employee, I don't like it when my boss comes and just tells me, like, flat out, like, bossy I don't like a bossy boss.
Speaker 3:Right? I don't want a warden for a boss. And so we have to really think about that with our kids too is that we don't wanna be wardens or or bossy bosses to them as well. And so choice in the compromise is give them the opportunity to to tell us what's happening. So it could be, like, if I go to a kid and they're playing foosball, and I'm like, hey.
Speaker 3:5 more minutes. And then I come and I, you know, I connect and give them 5 minutes, and then I connect and say it's time to move, and they refuse. I'm gonna be like, hey. What's going on? You know, do you and, you know, and they're refusing to come.
Speaker 3:I might say, do you wanna come in, you know, after one more score, or do you wanna come, like, in 2 more minutes? So sometimes just giving some power so I'm a good boss. Let let me tell
Speaker 2:you something.
Speaker 3:I'm the boss. I have the power, but I also wanna share the power because I'm a good boss because that's what good bosses do. Right? Right. So, really, what you're doing with choices is you're giving them a choice.
Speaker 3:And sometimes when you give some some of your power, right, you say, hey. Like, here's the
Speaker 2:Because only the powerful can share it.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I have the power. I will share it. And and kids then, they have voice and choice. And when kids all of a sudden have voice and choice, all of a sudden, they will often, like, relax some and kind of be more agreeable.
Speaker 3:Right? Mhmm. Because I like it when I have voice. If my boss says, give me that report at 5 or says, would you like to give me that report at 3 or tomorrow at 8 AM? Which one works better for you?
Speaker 3:I like that too. And so we wanna do that with kids is give them choice.
Speaker 2:So what happens so, again, we do this Yes. Choice, but yeah. No language. Right? Right.
Speaker 2:No definition. But this is what happened. Yeah. I'm thinking of an incident. Actually, maybe this is him a lot.
Speaker 2:Give him a choice. Now or later, you pick. I want me, mister Cubit, wants right now, but you wanna you didn't wanna come with right now. So alright. Now or 2 minutes from now?
Speaker 3:Mhmm. 2
Speaker 2:minutes from now. Okay. That's good. Take it to work. See you later.
Speaker 2:See you in 2 minutes. 2 minutes come. No. Same behavior. 3 minutes
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Same behavior. 4 minutes, same behavior. Now I go and I said, alright. We did this. We did that.
Speaker 2:We talked about it. You told me this. You looked me in my face and you told me that. And so I'm a little disappointed, but I'm not it's now I'm not disappointed at you not coming. I'm disappointed that you didn't honor your word.
Speaker 2:And so I just wanna know what kind of person you're gonna be. Mhmm. Are you the kind of person that doesn't honor your word? And and they don't want that. And it automatically stops whatever they're doing and they just come along.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right? Because for some reason, nobody wants to be a liar. That's true. Even the kids, they don't wanna be and they're caught Yeah.
Speaker 2:Red handed. Yeah. Right? It's not like Yeah. There's a like, this is in in in police terms, this is a misdemeanor that has happened in my presence.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right? Yeah. You'd look at me and tell me Yeah. You were gonna do it this time.
Speaker 2:I'm looking at you right now, and that it does it not happen. I'm not disappointed that that thing didn't happen. I'm more hurt by the fact that you looked me on my face and said you were gonna do it and didn't do it.
Speaker 3:Yes. Yes. So couple of things that come to mind with that. Number 1 is is that all behavior has purpose. So what's the need behind the behavior?
Speaker 3:Right? So so sometimes it's like, hey. We were going to you and I agreed, and that didn't happen. What's going on?
Speaker 2:Right. Like,
Speaker 3:how can I help you? Right? And so there might be something outside of what we don't know.
Speaker 2:Which is the step I never took.
Speaker 3:Which which yeah. And because most people know because we want compliance. We want obedience. Right? I do.
Speaker 3:Like, let's just move it along. Click, click, click. Right? I know what's going on. Listen to me.
Speaker 3:Do what I say. Right? But the other piece is that we have to also often practice the skill before we implement it. So I'm gonna work this is where the compromises and the choices come into play is where we we we actually practice the skill. Right?
Speaker 3:So let's say that I go come and I say, do you want to, like, do come in 2 more minutes or 3 more minutes? Which do you want? Kids always pick the biggest number. Right? And sometimes they'll say 10, and you're like, well, I can do 4.
Speaker 3:And they're like, 5. And I'm like, I can do 4.5 and sold. Right?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:And so we're off we're gonna we're gonna front load. We call it front loading. Right? We front load. We practice.
Speaker 3:And then what happens is is that we're gonna have that conversation. If if you'd still don't honor this, then what happens? Right? So I may sit and talk to you about, well, hey, what's going on? What do you need?
Speaker 3:How can I help you? You made this agreement with me, and now it's not happening. What do you need? How can I help you? Right?
Speaker 3:Or we can say, you know, like, we need to practice some compromises more, right, or choices, or we need to do a redo with this. But really, there will that's the thing. There will always be a need behind the behavior. I believe that most kids get up and most adults get up, and we do the best that we can with what we have, right, in the world. And so people are really hurting, and we don't know why they may not wanna move from the foosball table to dinner with everyone.
Speaker 2:And kids may not be able to know And they might not
Speaker 3:they may not know either. And you might say, could it be this? Could it be this? Did you have a hard day at school? Like, hey.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna talk to you real quick. Right? Did you have a hard day at school? Are things okay at home? Like, what do you need,
Speaker 2:and how can I help you?
Speaker 3:I can tell this is really hard for you. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah. The the the thing that that stands out, like, giving them them options, like, they don't know what's hurting. They want to answer. They're engaged in the conversation, but they don't know what's wrong.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:This is what I I I like to go down. Sometimes I go down the the list of stuff. Was it the teacher? Was it at home? All that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:But what I found out or and maybe this is not every case, but what I feel like happens is they'll grab one of the choices even if it's not the right choice.
Speaker 3:Sometimes they do.
Speaker 2:Right? They'll just grab a choice. Yeah. And so what I try to tell, my team is this. Don't get pressured by the silence.
Speaker 3:Yes. Oh, that's that's golden.
Speaker 2:Don't get pressured by the silence.
Speaker 3:Hold the space for kids. Hold space for them.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yeah. Let them Yeah. It's a lot of pressure on you too. The silence creates a lot of pressure.
Speaker 2:But don't get don't be the adult and hang in there, and don't be the 1st to talk Right. After you've put it out that that question.
Speaker 3:And and there we do this thing also called narrating. So I've just given you a lot of choices. It may be hard to figure out which one. I'm just gonna hang here with you until you can can come to it. Right?
Speaker 2:So good. Right?
Speaker 3:So you just narrate exactly what's happening because that kid may not know. And you know what? If you can't figure out which one it is, you and I are okay. What happened wasn't okay, but you and I are always okay. And that's really the message we wanna send kids.
Speaker 3:Right? Damn. Like, even as an adult, when I mess up, I want like, if my husband if I'm disrespectful to my husband, like, that wasn't okay, but you and I are okay. Right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's what we wanna convey to kids.
Speaker 2:Ma'am, golden. Alright. I'm gonna get these last 2. Last 2, and then I'm gonna I'm gonna let you go because I'm still in your time.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:But I want you to talk about we should talk about correcting tips. Okay. Code words. Code words. Oh, I
Speaker 3:love code words. So code words are just a really simple way of if there's a behavior that a kid does, that's not okay. But you don't wanna call them out in front of a group and nor do they wanna be called out and I mean, no one likes. It feels very shaming. No.
Speaker 3:No. No. No. No. Because then they'll punish you and they'll come back at you.
Speaker 3:Right? We know that. Right? And so or act, like, even more, like them act out even more to, like, garner, like, the attention of their peers. Right?
Speaker 3:And so what I would say is that you if there's a behavior like, let's say you have a youth that wants all of your attention. Right? And so you say, hey. You know what? One of the things I've noticed is you really want all of my attention, but sometimes I need to, like, step out and be with this other kid, or sometimes I need to get and we need to do a group or whatever.
Speaker 3:And so I'm gonna say, when I when I notice that happening, I'm just gonna say a code word. And what our code word means is that you will get my attention as soon as this is over. But I don't have to say to you, I can't do this right now because I have other things or da da da da da. Right? Like, so it could be staring.
Speaker 3:It could be gossiping about somebody. It could be refusing to come to group. Like, it could be eating 12 hot dogs. Like, like, whatever it is. You get a behavior that's not okay, and you develop a code word with that kid.
Speaker 3:They'll usually come up with something good and pick a word that really is nonsensical, because you don't want them to associate a word, like, later in life with, like, that code word. So yeah.
Speaker 2:So you
Speaker 3:just drop the code word, and then everybody keeps moving. It could be you have a kid that's always talking in group and always disrupting, and you don't wanna call them out again. So you just say the
Speaker 2:code
Speaker 3:word
Speaker 2:and the kid gets it and then moves on. Right. Love it. Love it. Okay.
Speaker 2:The deferred yes, give me the yes and state your case. This is golden stuff.
Speaker 3:Love this. So let's start with deferred yes. So a deferred yes is let's let's say a kid came in, and they're like, hey. Can I have a piece of bubble gum? And you're like, yes.
Speaker 3:And then they're like, hey. Can I have a second one? Yes. Can I have a third one? Yes.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna go ahead and put it over here. When you walk out the door, you can get it. Right? Or I'm gonna so it's it's just basically giving them basically, what's happening is is when we give kids no's oftentimes that come from trauma, they go down into fight, flight, or freeze. They go down to the bottom part of their brain.
Speaker 3:Right? They're based on part of their brain. And so the deferred yes is really lovely because I can give a yes, but it can be delayed. Right? If it's, you know, for their health and safety and all all those things.
Speaker 2:The idea is to keep the stay away from no because you're moving to a space.
Speaker 3:Right. Right. Because and you and you can get to no eventually. Right? It's not like you never give a no.
Speaker 3:Right? It's like you give as many yeses as possible because when you think about it, when you're a baby and you cry and someone comes and meets your needs and you cry and someone meets your needs over and over again, your voice matters. Your voice works. You're seen, heard, and valued. People are trusted.
Speaker 3:People are safe. The world is predictable. So what we're doing is we're kind of going back and giving lots of yeses so we can have that connection, which can create the felt safety and the self regulation. Right? So we just have to start with deferred yeses.
Speaker 3:And then the other 2?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So okay.
Speaker 2:Now I gotta tell you Mhmm. I don't I don't really like
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:What you're doing or what you're requesting, but get me to yes.
Speaker 3:Yes. Oh, yeah. I love this with teenagers. Right? So so, like my kid, Summer.
Speaker 3:Work night for me. He's not doesn't have anything the next day. It's Thursday. Hey. Can you can I have so and so come over to spend the night?
Speaker 3:My immediate immediate reaction is no. No. Right? No. Because I got it.
Speaker 3:Tired. Yeah. Right? You guys
Speaker 2:will make noise on that. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. So then it's like, okay. Redo. Let's try this again. You know what, buddy?
Speaker 3:This actually happened. Right? So the like, okay. Let's, like, get me to yes. So get me to yes.
Speaker 3:Okay. So for me, it's a late night that if you guys stay up and keep me up, I'll be exhausted. I'm already tired. This is the 5th day of the work week. Like, this is my hardest day to get up.
Speaker 3:Right? So get me to yes. Well, when they come over, we will be out of the living room by 9 o'clock. Okay? And we will make sure we hit all the kitchen runs before 10 o'clock.
Speaker 3:Okay? And then I won't blast my stereo. We'll keep it at a level 2. Okay? You've got me to yes.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Yes. You've got me to yes. Right. So you're teaching them to negotiate Negotiate. To look at all look at the other person's perspective
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Right Yeah. And to and to evaluate how their behavior might impact the rest of the world around.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Because as adults, we just wanna give a no because it's inconvenient. But it's like, what a great skill to teach them how to negotiate and also be empathetic to look at all sides of what's happening.
Speaker 2:Alright. State your case. That's all that's all part of it. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's all part
Speaker 2:of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. State
Speaker 2:your case. Same thing.
Speaker 3:Same thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep. And then some of us are not into the time out stuff. Mhmm. But you guys have a term in TBRI called time in.
Speaker 3:Yes. Yes. So time out, if you think about traditionally, time out is send you away. And we know that in the world of harm. Right?
Speaker 3:So abuse says, I don't like you or I don't like what you're doing, and neglect says, you don't matter. And so one of the things that we don't wanna do is we don't wanna send kids away because they don't matter. Right? They always wanna be seen, heard, and valued. So I'm a strong, wise, kind, safe adult who, when you're dysregulated and you're upset, I'm gonna stay regulated.
Speaker 3:Right? Because I can't ask you to do something I'm not willing to do myself.
Speaker 2:Right. So
Speaker 3:I'm gonna stay regulated, and I'm gonna stay nearby you until you're ready. And so it's just a time in. So instead of kissing kids away and there will be kids that will say, I just need to walk away, and they need to go calm themselves and regulate and come back. Like, I get that. So we never wanna take that from kids if that's their strategy or their plan, right, to calm.
Speaker 3:But I'm not gonna send kids away. I'm right here when you're ready. And so you just hold space
Speaker 2:for them. What we kinda do schools like, you're disrupting the room. Get out. Mhmm. Like, kick them out.
Speaker 2:Suspend it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know,
Speaker 2:you can't come back to the program the next day.
Speaker 3:Versus yeah. Versus you're hurting. What's what do you need and how can I help you? Yeah. Because kids don't know.
Speaker 3:If they did, they would they would do that.
Speaker 2:Right. Yeah. You guys dropped some real good knowledge in the training. I'm super excited to share this with the mentoring world, and I'm hoping your phone goes crazy about TBRI and that you guys are training the rest of the world and other police departments who deal with youth, whether there's an in in a mentoring program like we do at FACT in Oklahoma City Police Department, but in others. But here's what here's what the the the thing that I'm hoping to ask on Jeopardy one day.
Speaker 2:A spanking only lasts how long? 8 weeks, and they're back to the same behavior.
Speaker 3:Correct. Because I mean, so first of all, a lot of our kids come from harm. So spank me. What do you I mean, really? Yeah.
Speaker 3:What's that gonna do? And then secondly, like, you eventually like, we have kids that don't wanna do the redo. They wanna take the weapon. Like, just give me the weapon because then I don't have to do the behavior the right way.
Speaker 2:I'll pay the fire. I'll pay the fire. I'll go back to speed. Right. Right.
Speaker 2:And so and then and then the other one that I hope they asked on Jeopardy was I think it was something about lectures. Yes. Like Yeah. There's no work words. I mean, what was it?
Speaker 2:What was it? It's 12 words.
Speaker 3:Twelve words and kids check out. So you better make those 12 words count if you're gonna give a lecture. Lectures are for adults or not for kids. That doesn't help them skill build. We want skill building.
Speaker 3:TBR is all about skill building. Right?
Speaker 2:This is why my son would always roll his eyes when I say, come here. Sit down. And they would just I'm like, are you listening to me? What did I just say? Yeah.
Speaker 2:What did I just say? Yeah.
Speaker 3:And you know what he was doing by rolling his eyes? He was regulating. That's a shift in state. He's regulating so he could sit there and listen. Right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. We think, like, don't you roll your eyes at me, but, like, that's actually a regulation, like, thing that people do, teens do. Oh. So funny.
Speaker 2:Amber, thank you so much. How do we get in touch with Halo? How do we get in touch with you? How do we connect with TBRI?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. So the first thing
Speaker 2:I would say is that
Speaker 3:we always wanna give credit where credit is due. Yeah. And so TBRI, trust based relational intervention, comes out of Texas Christian University, the Karen Purvis Institute of Child Development. And so if you just type that into your Google search, like, all of the information will pull up. Right?
Speaker 3:And so they're really the people that are spreading this, like, worldwide. It's really gone world worldwide because it's outside of the fostering dot board. Right? It's everywhere. It's everywhere.
Speaker 3:Right? Yeah. And so then for us, you can just Google the Halo Project Oklahoma City and all of our information will pop up.
Speaker 2:Love it. Love it. Thanks so much. And I gotta remind you, of this one great big thing with TBRI, with all of the master mentors that have been on this podcast. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. Thank you.