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The purpose of the IT Leaders Council is to bring together IT Directors and Managers for leadership training, educational content from guest speakers, and peer discussions in a vendor-free, collaborative environment. IT Leaders Councils are currently offered in Indianapolis, IN and Columbus, OH, with more cities coming soon!
00;00;00;01 - 00;00;16;15
Speaker 1
So. Good morning, everyone. I'm Aaron Kopel So there's a cheat sheet on your table. I want to grab you a little draw here. I don't do PowerPoint, so I know a few of your past clients sit here, and also people will come a slower recruiting classes. We do a lot of training on Agile and leadership and things like that.
00;00;16;18 - 00;00;35;05
Speaker 1
We also do coaching, consulting and help people with agile transformations and so today talking a bit about leadership and employee engagement. So like I said, I don't really do PowerPoint. These kind of things that I like to do training like more interactive kind of things. And so we'll give you a little break from PowerPoint. But you know, it's been a while since I've done this in person.
00;00;35;07 - 00;00;52;19
Speaker 1
So I appreciate the fact that there's a camera back there I feel at home now. So basically a really neat summit. Anyways, so we're going to talk about employee engagements and leadership behaviors. So this kind of looks like a thing on your page there. And going to fill this in with me as like, oh, grab a chair.
00;00;52;19 - 00;00;56;21
Speaker 2
Perch here, let me get that right.
00;00;56;23 - 00;01;17;13
Speaker 1
And so this is a little snippet of one of our leadership classes or just sort of add some things to it, but want to talk first about the history of management and leadership, where this sort of come from to now. Just give a little context to what we get to talk about with employee engagement. Let me straight this little bit out like we do.
00;01;17;15 - 00;01;18;08
Speaker 2
Right?
00;01;18;10 - 00;01;44;29
Speaker 1
So management, where does it come from? So we think about modern management today that we see in most large companies we think about was starting around the 1900s. And so this is basically industrial revolution. When management first started bringing people off of fields and farms into factories in big cities and working together. And the opportunity here for people was to come in and basically be part of a larger organization.
00;01;45;06 - 00;02;05;09
Speaker 1
And the need for management started to arise to help them know what to do. And so management in that case we call this manager. At what point over the 1800s are scale here? And the vertical axis in this diagram is eating complexity of work. So back then it was pretty straightforward stuff. Putting things together and simple usually is here is like working in a steel mill.
00;02;05;12 - 00;02;21;28
Speaker 1
And so you've got people coming in there shoveling coal into a blast furnace. And the role of management was to make sure things are going well. People are showing up and doing the tasks they're supposed to do to get the work done. And so we call this manager 1.0. And when we think about this, oftentimes we associate this with the guy too.
00;02;21;28 - 00;02;49;26
Speaker 1
Frederick Taylor. Anyone out here named Frederick Taylor that I had, that was it was awkward. But so Frederick Taylor from the 1900s, so a very popular four book called Scientific Management. He would read this book or heard of it earlier. Frederick Taylor, a couple of us. All right. So Frederick Taylor, the book scientific manager, what he was basically trying to do is apply a lot of measurement and scientific thinking to this work.
00;02;49;28 - 00;03;08;14
Speaker 1
And so we call this Taylor ism and the focus here is a lot on measurement. We're talking about measurement. It's often measurement of inputs. So, for example, you're shoveling coal into a blast furnace. What we're measuring then is get a stopwatch out and measure how many shovel of coal can you do in 10 minutes? We do the math to figure out how much you should do every day.
00;03;08;16 - 00;03;32;00
Speaker 1
And there's a baseline. Right now we have performance management and that's where a lot of the performance management things that we work from today originated from manual labor. And so this idea of measurements and holding people accountable for those measures. The other thing here we often think about here is the idea of control. So command and control kind of behaviors, very directive kind of management, a lot of micromanagement that we think about today.
00;03;32;02 - 00;03;48;12
Speaker 1
It's the manager being right there with the employee telling them exactly what to do. And if they do it wrong, the correct them right, that kind of approach. This is revolutionary stuff. Back in those days, because before that it was really ad hoc, right? Things were just sort of happening. Not a lot of direction, not a lot of consistency.
00;03;48;12 - 00;04;08;21
Speaker 1
And so a lot of what Frederick Taylor brought to the table was process, consistency, measurement to make sure we're doing things at a certain level of productivity. And so really revolutionary stuff, but maybe not great, right as we move forward here in time to the 1950s and things start to get faster, right? The work starts to increase in terms of complexity.
00;04;08;21 - 00;04;28;19
Speaker 1
Things are moving faster. And so as we go up this curve post-World War Two or think about here's more about the Lean movement, So who's sort of lean before? Lots of us. Probably a lot of almost everyone. Awesome. All right. So lots of thinking here. You know, commonly we talk about Toyota, post-World War two, Deming, things like that.
00;04;28;22 - 00;04;47;24
Speaker 1
And so in this, I got hold of word or think about here is a focus on people being able to do their job at their stations. I think about like an assembly line and people are working on their part of building a car, for example, like there's someone that's putting on the steering wheel, someone putting on doors, and they specialize in that piece of the work.
00;04;47;26 - 00;05;07;13
Speaker 1
And so the role of the manager can shift a little bit now because those people have become more educated. They're not just fresh out of farms going to the factories. Now they've got a couple of generations of doing this kind of stuff. And so the road manager shifts a little bit from direct command and control and telling people exactly what to do, to say, hey, you put the doors on the car every day, you know exactly what to do.
00;05;07;20 - 00;05;27;04
Speaker 1
You know what good looks like coming from the previous station and they know what it looks like coming from you. And so there's a chain of events here. And so from a manager standpoint, we can measure and manage things a little bit differently, right? So instead of measuring inputs, we usually do on the side, really measuring borrowed more about outputs, managing and measuring outputs.
00;05;27;06 - 00;05;44;20
Speaker 1
And so from each station, right, going for step to step. And so from a lead perspective, what we're focused here is more on the quality and it's really quality like from stuff to stuff, right? So we're doing a check from when it comes from the previous station to my station, we can check it right in some way to say, Yep, it's good.
00;05;44;27 - 00;06;03;14
Speaker 1
I do my part, then I pass it on and there's some quality checks along the way. Along with that, we're starting to build trust in the employees ability to do their job because they do it every day. They know exactly what to do. Five, four years right? They probably know better than the manager of what things are supposed to look like, how things are supposed to happen.
00;06;03;19 - 00;06;19;16
Speaker 1
Right? And so we're building trust in their capability to understand what to do, how to do it, what good looks like, that kind of stuff. So the role of manager starts to shift here a bit from direct command and control to start to trust the people a bit more, to do their thing successfully. Great. It makes sense so far.
00;06;19;18 - 00;06;37;16
Speaker 1
All right. So next stop here. As things start continue to increase, we get more towards what we think about as the information age. A lot of it is technology, of course, relevant for all of us. But as things start to get faster and faster, the idea back here is with the direct directly, the control managers are really in charge of everything right?
00;06;37;16 - 00;06;53;17
Speaker 1
Directing the work. As we get to lean, it's more about managing the outputs and the overall process, right? So we're able to step back a little bit from the day to day work and look at the bigger picture and make sure the cars are coming off the assembly line correctly. It's more about managing outputs from station to station, but also the overall picture.
00;06;53;19 - 00;07;16;02
Speaker 1
And so as we increase here in or before too time, an increase in the speed and complexity of work, it's hard for the manager to really have that insight and oversight of everything, right? There's so much going on and it moving so fast. We've got to really start to rely on there are people a it differently than we had before, not just to go station to station and do their piece of the puzzle, but to look at the whole picture because things are moving so fast.
00;07;16;02 - 00;07;34;17
Speaker 1
And so the idea of of people having to wait for answers or wait for delays, if there's a problem, to escalate the problem up to management through the chain and back down and get answers. Things are moving too fast to wait for that. So the role of management has to start to shift now to really not just trust those people, but to put them in charge of the work completely.
00;07;34;19 - 00;07;58;11
Speaker 1
And so the idea here, we think about this as the Agile movement and what we're looking at here is really cross-functional. So not just one person, one station doing their thing, but looking at the bigger picture of all the work that has to go into building our product and delivering value and doing that a cross-functional way with tools.
00;07;58;13 - 00;08;20;08
Speaker 1
So more of a team based approach. So rather than managing individuals, we're trying to set teams up for success because things are moving so fast. We really need to rely on those teams to be able to do the job successfully. And ideally, and as we get into a lot of ideas with Agile or about teamwork, right, not just individuals saving the day, it's really about teamwork and collaboration to be able to adapt to change over time.
00;08;20;11 - 00;08;37;23
Speaker 1
All right. So we go from managing inputs as a manager back here to outputs it really from the oversight. They were really focused more on outcomes. So it's not just did the car it the assembly line, but in this world it's the customer like it right. Was it the right car for them, Did it have the right features and things like that?
00;08;37;26 - 00;09;02;03
Speaker 1
And so really putting the teams in charge of that kind of concept rather than individuals or managers trying to have inside of those things, it's really the people closest to the work need to be able to have the information, all the tools available to them. So the role of manager shifts in this model, this world to be more of an empowering servant leader that's trying to set the team up for success, not manage their work, not have to know every detail of what's going on, but to set them up for success.
00;09;02;03 - 00;09;21;07
Speaker 1
Create an environment where they can have all the information, all the tools, and break down barriers and solve problems for them in terms of the things that are getting in their way. Make sense of our. All right. So we think about sort of the history of management, where we've come from and where we are now. We're living in this kind of world where things are getting faster and faster every day.
00;09;21;13 - 00;09;36;01
Speaker 1
Technology is improving, the speed of customer requests are increasing, all that kind of stuff. So the response from management running to think about how do we deal with that? It's usually we're thinking more towards the ideas and values, the principles of Agile, right?
00;09;36;03 - 00;09;40;03
Speaker 2
So what does that mean for teams?
00;09;40;05 - 00;10;01;01
Speaker 1
So as we try to get better as managers or leaders in helping our teams be successful, thinking about this typical curve we call the Tuckman model or pricings for you. So forming, storming, norming, performing model or the Tuckman curve. And so as we think about managers trying to help teams become better, we go through some team building, right?
00;10;01;01 - 00;10;23;02
Speaker 1
And help these teams become more high performing. And so first stage here in forming, usually we think about here as people together maybe for the first time, maybe they have worked together before, maybe it's been a while. But as they get together, usually what it looks like is they sort out their own agenda. They're all looking at their own world and where they come from and what they have going on for themselves.
00;10;23;05 - 00;10;48;16
Speaker 1
And so really the role for the manager here, well, sorry for these people really trying to find their purpose here. Why are we together? What's this team about? Things like that. So we're forming the team as we get together, start doing work, then the shifts, the focus becomes more aligned, but it's really aligned internally. How do we find our place within this team?
00;10;48;18 - 00;11;04;12
Speaker 1
So the focus shifts from sort of do my own thing. Now I'm a part of a team. The teams formed now I try to get work done. We're trying to find our place. What's my role within this group of people that we're calling a team? And that's we go through some storming people bump into each other, right? There might be role overlap or skill overlap.
00;11;04;12 - 00;11;30;02
Speaker 1
We're trying to figure out how to work together, right? So there's this storming that goes on. So we start looking at each other and trying to figure out that place in the world. So as we get through that, hopefully successfully through that storming can be a good thing, right? Because we do find our place, we trying to figure out how to work together as a team, figure out how to produce better or predict increased productivity, things like that.
00;11;30;04 - 00;11;48;00
Speaker 1
As we come out of that into the stage of norming, the way to think about this is now everyone's aligned in terms of where we're going, so we're all moving forward together, which is a good thing, right? So we're in alignment. We understand what we're trying to do, how to work together, where we're going, how to precisely for a customer, things like that.
00;11;48;00 - 00;12;13;17
Speaker 1
So looks like everyone moving forward in the same way. And so as we get to performing, then as we get better and better at this stuff, we start thinking about, well, it's not just about individuals living together forward, it's about how do we move together forward as a team. So the largest collection of individuals, we form a real team that's actually functioning well together.
00;12;13;19 - 00;12;44;19
Speaker 1
So look, something were like this. We're all in it together, really collaborating, right? And so in this model, this picture, what's the role of the manager in this progression? Did we try to help the team become more effective, go through forming, storming, norming, performing, trying to get to that really nice high performing team that's functioning well and just awesome rocking it?
00;12;44;21 - 00;12;49;22
Speaker 1
What's the role of the manager there?
00;12;49;24 - 00;12;55;20
Speaker 2
Most of support coaching open dropped it out Roadblocks. Yeah. You ever saw.
00;12;55;20 - 00;13;14;01
Speaker 1
History? Yeah you know so knock it down barriers coaching them right so coming back to our model over here right we're trying to get away from more of the individualistic behavior and get teams to be effective. Right. The role of management has to shift really to that supporting role, right? Managing outcomes, setting them up for success, creating an environment.
00;13;14;04 - 00;13;39;14
Speaker 1
So the manager is usually not inside the team, right? They're out there inside the team day to day. It's really a support function for the manager to really become the person from outside who's helping people be successful, helping teams be successful, right? How do we make that shift? That's the question. So I see a lot of organizations as we think about the progression here, Measure 1.02.03.00 times.
00;13;39;15 - 00;14;11;02
Speaker 1
We talk about this in our leadership classes and we'll do sort of an informal poll and say, you know, where do you feel like your company is in this progression? And I hear a lot of like 1.5 to not a lot of 3.0 yet in terms of overall management across the organization. Right. And so if we're trying to help teams be successful, you'll notice our shifting our mindset and how we deal with teams, how we deal with work and really getting the managers out of the work and really being a support function for the teams being that more of a coach and mentor and setting them up for success, creating an environment where they can
00;14;11;02 - 00;14;38;04
Speaker 1
be successful and make sense of it all right. And so all that context to go to the back of your page immediately, if you want to spend a little bit of time thinking about for management, how do we start go in this direction, right. So as we try to make this progression towards what we call management 3.0, being that your support function, rather than being the expert and doing the work, how do we get into more of a role of coach?
00;14;38;10 - 00;14;57;20
Speaker 1
Right? So I like the way Mike put that. So really being that more coach and so we want to do is give you a few minutes here to think about what are some of the things that you want to have going on right now that are habits that you have at work that we could think about? They were more on this and maybe the management one or 2.0 how to get to more this 3.0 they can to really enable teams to be successful.
00;14;57;22 - 00;15;14;28
Speaker 1
It's really allowed them to do all the hard work and work through this norming forming norming curve. But from a management perspective, how do we support them in doing that? And so want to think about some habits we might have. What is a habit? Yeah.
00;15;15;00 - 00;15;20;26
Speaker 3
Like to go to something you do if you're uncertain or nervous or whatever?
00;15;20;28 - 00;15;26;21
Speaker 1
Sure. Go to think so. Yeah. Default behavior. Yeah. And you also have.
00;15;26;23 - 00;15;28;25
Speaker 2
That thinking as I.
00;15;28;27 - 00;15;52;13
Speaker 1
Do without thinking about it. Yeah, I think I put a little definition on your page there, but so. So something like that, Right. So things we do routine things that we do often without thinking. So default behavior, things we fall back on. Right? And so we do think a little bit take a few minutes for yourself, think about what are some habits you have at work that you might want to shift more towards this sort of mindset of management 3.0 and thinking there.
00;15;52;16 - 00;16;10;19
Speaker 1
And so just give an example. Yeah. When I would often point to so I was a developer way back in the day and you know, somewhat engineering minded and I love to solve problems, man, give me a problem and I love to dig into it, figure out all the pieces of parts and work through it. That's a lot of fun, but it's not the right thing for me to do as a manager leader.
00;16;10;21 - 00;16;21;25
Speaker 1
So I'm a CEO of our our company, a project. Brilliant. And the worst thing I could do to solve all the problems is that why is that your staff or our staff will never grow.
00;16;21;27 - 00;16;25;22
Speaker 2
What else do you want to wait?
00;16;25;24 - 00;16;31;21
Speaker 1
Yeah. Taking my time away from the higher valued stuff I couldn't do. Right. It's not something just sustainable.
00;16;31;23 - 00;16;32;21
Speaker 2
Yeah. Too much to.
00;16;32;21 - 00;16;34;13
Speaker 1
Do. Too much to do. Yeah.
00;16;34;16 - 00;16;37;06
Speaker 2
Yeah. So you. You become the key?
00;16;37;08 - 00;16;53;14
Speaker 1
Yeah, I become the linchpin for everything. And guess what happens next time there's a problem. There was a look to me to solve it again and again and again. It's a vicious cycle, right? So for me, that could be one thing I look at specifically. So the example or scenario would be like when I'm in a meeting and a problem comes up, right?
00;16;53;14 - 00;17;07;18
Speaker 1
There's a natural inclination to say, problem, I need to solve it, right? That's just the default behavior. And so as you go through the sheet a couple of questions for you to think through. So one, what is the habit? So that's how I'd describe it is, hey, I've had meetings and when the problem comes up, I'd like to solve it.
00;17;07;18 - 00;17;25;25
Speaker 1
Right. Well, the impact of that, all the things we just described, right, disempowers my people. You know, it makes me the hero every time because people look to be every time to solve it again. It's the lowest value thing I probably do because there's a lot of other high value stuff I should be doing in terms of Asian Cup of tea or other things.
00;17;25;28 - 00;17;40;00
Speaker 1
And so I want to shift that behavior. So what should I do? Well, the behavior shift and that example could be, well, I'm going to stop doing that, right? I'm going to stop jumping it or being the first one to speak when a problem comes up, because I my brain just works that way as a consultant. Oftentimes problem comes up.
00;17;40;00 - 00;17;54;25
Speaker 1
I want to be there. I just say, hey, I've got the answer right. So a change in behavior for me could be to not be the first one to speak right in that meeting and say, what? I'm going to let two or three other people at least speak first and get their ideas out before I jump in and try to do some problem solving.
00;17;54;25 - 00;18;11;16
Speaker 1
Right. So I could be a behavior change. And so what's the benefit of that? Well, the benefit of that is starts to really get other people the opportunity to get their ideas on the table, give them some empowerment, really helps them engage in conversations rather than just knowing that I'm going to jump in and solve the problem. Right.
00;18;11;16 - 00;18;31;20
Speaker 1
Things like that. So there's some real benefits I can point to there as to why I would want to make that kind of change. But then lastly, the big thing that I find as we go through this is step five there on your page, which is how are you going to remember to do that? It's nice to talk about it for a few minutes, but the next time it happens, how are you going to remember to not do that?
00;18;31;20 - 00;18;46;05
Speaker 1
I can remember to change that behavior. And so there's a lot of different things you can do there. So I ask you to brainstorm that a little bit. But, you know, one simple thing is if you're at home on Zoom, I have posted notes right next to my camera that, of course, you can't see on camera. But I can.
00;18;46;08 - 00;19;00;11
Speaker 1
Every time I look up at them, I can see that Post-it note there that says, don't solve the problem, all right. Or something like that. So so that's one thing you can do to remind yourself to do it or, you know, wear a wristband, tie a string on your finger or something like that. Right. But what to remember?
00;19;00;13 - 00;19;23;29
Speaker 1
Or try to find yourself a reminder to change that behavior. And so as we think about trying to really engage our employees, we want to think about all these behavior changes that we can make as leaders to really nudge ourselves along this continuum more towards this management 3.0 concept By changing some of those traditional behaviors we might have towards more empowering and engaging behaviors to allow your people to step up for that.
00;19;24;02 - 00;19;37;25
Speaker 1
So want to give you a few minutes here too, to think through. What are your habits and the way to share with your table. We'll share a few as a group as well. All right. So let's take three or 4 minutes. So work through that on the back of your page there. There's two steps. One, two, three, four or five.
00;19;37;27 - 00;19;50;24
Speaker 1
So what's the habit? What's the impact of that? What can you do to change it? What that looks like in terms of behavior change, how are you going to follow through? So try to fill that in real quick, three or 4 minutes. Just try to identify something simple step, right?
00;19;50;26 - 00;20;02;13
Speaker 2
We give you a variety. You talk to this larger figure like you just put, you know what, don't for years it's all about they today and put that All right.
00;20;02;13 - 00;20;03;16
Speaker 1
That's time.
00;20;03;18 - 00;20;05;00
Speaker 2
And well.
00;20;05;02 - 00;20;06;17
Speaker 1
Let's time. Let's come back together.
00;20;06;22 - 00;20;10;28
Speaker 2
So yeah, it's like.
00;20;11;01 - 00;20;29;08
Speaker 1
So hopefully we're going to chance at the table to share. We'd love to hear some of these with the big group. So who would like to be the first person to share with the group who sort of walk through all five steps would be great. So as a little incentive, then do eight books for the first two people to share.
00;20;29;08 - 00;20;39;09
Speaker 1
So if you'd like to be first, I go for. All right, Reba, how do you end up first? Okay, so really loud so we can all hear.
00;20;39;11 - 00;20;44;05
Speaker 3
Okay, so number one, my album is the Freak Out. And so Mike, Darren, fire!
00;20;44;09 - 00;20;50;24
Speaker 2
Oh, dude. And for a while I was hands off because.
00;20;50;29 - 00;21;24;22
Speaker 3
I know what you're doing so well. Stops are slow, so progress. So the new behavior I'm proposing for myself, that is ask three questions about both situation and corporate problems. Three solutions. Still a situation benefit is model constructive problem solving for others. And as a reminder of what I keep commentary on, sniff around my monitors so that I've so that I see that before I set my.
00;21;24;22 - 00;21;50;03
Speaker 1
Hair on fire. Nice. All right. Very good. That's wonderful. And the prize is this book called The Age of Agile. Who read this book? One. All right. This is book is, I don't know, five or so years old, at least Previous is, of course, but it's like watching the church. It's a lot about why organizations should go. Agile is not about how to do Agile.
00;21;50;03 - 00;21;57;21
Speaker 1
It's about why would we think about doing Agile in the first place. So good stuff. So thanks for sharing. We're going to.
00;21;57;23 - 00;22;24;15
Speaker 2
So my habit is I, I tend to ask the negative connotation questions. You know, someone presents something and it's Well, did you think about this as well? What about that? Did you find or do they get to this component? So the impact of that is it projects a lot of negativity, soothing projects, a lot of negativity around the team projects, a lot of negativity in general.
00;22;24;17 - 00;22;55;17
Speaker 2
And the behavior is focused more on the positive side. It's, you know, rather than be the engineer and try and solve everything to 100%, it's focus more on positive side and reframe the questions as this is a great solution. We still have a little bit of go rather than focus on that negative aspect. First of all, here's the things that we need to go and let's look at the 90% of the amazing solution with.
00;22;55;17 - 00;23;28;22
Speaker 2
We built the. So the benefit is, is to build up the team, to build up that performance, make people more confident in presenting ideas and not be more timid of, well, I don't have that 100% solution, so I'm not going to talk about it yet. Do it. So the reminder of that is is really again, to to your point, it's really more just kind of visual notes of, you know, focus on the positive, you know, don't try and solve the 100% solution, that kind of thing.
00;23;28;28 - 00;23;55;15
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's great. Right? Awesome. Thanks. Thank you. All right. Anyone else want to share more books? But it's always fun to hear. All right. We're getting close on time. So that's one of the play off this last comment as well. So, you know, some of these things, I imagine, are the reason we're focusing on the stuff that's not working or not done, of course, is a bit of ingrained behavior.
00;23;55;17 - 00;24;14;07
Speaker 1
You know, stakeholders probably thinking in that way, right? Hey, yeah, great. That stuff works. I expected that. But what about the part that doesn't work and really hammering you on that? Right. And so one of the maybe just extensions of that I would think about for myself would be not just for my team, but can I help stakeholders start seeing the positive side so that they're putting less pressure on my team as well?
00;24;14;07 - 00;24;30;08
Speaker 1
So if we try to really set the team up for success back here, really getting them into more of an environment where they can be successful, it's not just me as a manager, but it's also the stakeholders, my peers, things like that. What can I do to influence them and make life better for our teams right as we go through this?
00;24;30;10 - 00;24;35;00
Speaker 1
So last chance. Anyone else want to share a habit?
00;24;35;02 - 00;24;36;25
Speaker 2
I know that. I want to ask our students.
00;24;36;25 - 00;24;38;09
Speaker 1
All right. Yeah.
00;24;38;11 - 00;25;05;13
Speaker 2
I mean, you guys offer back on your Dana and leadership up above you, but those are making sure I have enough grocery shopping for a much beyond that culture of mine phase. If audience expectation metrics and retort, you know, output then may be mixed. But on our direct directions, I'm trying to help that world at work.
00;25;05;15 - 00;25;27;26
Speaker 1
Yeah. So sort of managing up it sounds like. Yeah, yeah. So, so what I find is useful is to try to educate a little bit so that can be little things like, Hey, here's a blog to read or an article or something like that to help people start thinking differently about not just the tactical, what have we done today kind of stuff, but really thinking more towards that outcome.
00;25;27;26 - 00;25;50;05
Speaker 1
Are you working on the right things and and start shifting that focus a bit so that can be a light nudge, could be just articles, books, you know, things like that might be useful, a video, right? And so, for example, if you hit the QR code on the back of that page, I'll go to my website, which has some like very short, like three minute videos and a few concepts.
00;25;50;08 - 00;26;07;20
Speaker 1
And so we'll find those like bite sized pieces can be really helpful. Of course, there's tons of stuff on YouTube for other organizations as well, but that could be just a nice conversation starter at least, or inviting them to a meeting or a luncheon or something like this where they can come and just start getting different perspectives beyond just the, Hey, we're so busy doing work all the time.
00;26;07;22 - 00;26;17;08
Speaker 1
We're too busy to realize we're not doing the right works. And so it's some of those kind of conversations that would be really useful. So I find education is a good first step. Thank you. That's true.
00;26;17;11 - 00;26;38;09
Speaker 2
Right? Yeah. I care. What other comments have added is that if you're able to get into small wins of your own using these techniques, Cheryl, and you know, that's another Dutch adage to say, hey, we just had this great thing happen, We did this list and it was on the end of a call it out, but suddenly just a little different to what we used to do.
00;26;38;15 - 00;26;45;24
Speaker 2
And here's what we got as an outcome that sometimes can help. Most come along to something I think was probably.
00;26;45;26 - 00;26;54;00
Speaker 1
A good point. That experience share. Yeah, that's great. Thanks, Mike. All right. We're probably close to time. Here we are.
00;26;54;02 - 00;27;00;10
Speaker 2
Aaron. How can they engage you? I mean, what's the typical engagement with your company look like if they want to go further?
00;27;00;13 - 00;27;23;06
Speaker 1
Yeah, sure. So on the sheet, I've got my contact information on the back. Again, we do a lot of training classes, so those are all the sort of website for Agile teams, Agile practitioners and also Agile leaders. And we also of course help with coaching for organizations going through Agile transformation so that along with I've got a couple other speaking engagements coming up later today and noon with Jeff Ton on his LinkedIn Live podcast.
00;27;23;09 - 00;27;31;15
Speaker 1
And then tomorrow we have our own webinar for project really talking about pitfalls of Agile for its mission. So product really becomes a good way to find us. Thanks, Doug.
00;27;31;17 - 00;27;32;02
Speaker 2
All right.
00;27;32;04 - 00;27;35;28
Unknown
I did it for my friends. I think they're.