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Join NABR in partnership with Corp! Magazine for our CEO & Executive Thought Leadership Series, where Jennifer Kluge sits down with C-Suite Leaders to get their insight and expertise.
NABR is a service organization igniting greatness in companies and their people.
00:00:00:02 - 00:00:26:16
Jennifer
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of CEO and Executive Thought Leadership. I am your host, Jennifer Kluge and today we have a very special guest. John Boyd is the executive Vice president and founding principle of Signature Associates. Signature Associate Associates has been a market leader in commercial real estate since being founded in 1989, and John was very involved in that.
00:00:26:18 - 00:00:42:18
Jennifer
We're going to hear more about that soon. And John combines his in-depth market knowledge with business strategies to meet the needs of clients throughout North America, Europe and Asia. It's a pleasure to have you on the program, John.
00:00:42:20 - 00:00:45:11
John
Thank you, Jennifer. I'm looking forward to our conversation.
00:00:45:13 - 00:01:09:06
Jennifer
Me too. Me too. So in full transparency. So everyone knows we are friends. And I know you are a very well-respected business leader here. And, you know, I've never asked you how you started the organization. You know, you're the founding partner, you know, can you give you a career start story? How to start?
00:01:09:08 - 00:01:41:16
John
Sure. And no problem. Let's not be native to Michigan. I grew up in new Jersey, came out here to go to school in Ann Arbor. I know that's your favorite university, Jennifer. So started in the brokerage business in July of 1978. So I'm sorry if that ages me, but it's reality at a small firm downtown. Then worked for general contractor for a period and joined a company called Trance in July 1980, where I met my partner at that time and we started working together on the East side.
00:01:41:18 - 00:02:09:10
John
And I think we had one listing the entire East Side Market back in 1980. And we eventually grew that market to where we dominate the I-75 corridor and industrial. Our company, Signature Associates, does a full service commercial industrial office, retail investment, property management, project management. And that all sort of grew out of that first weekend that we started in July of 1989.
00:02:09:11 - 00:02:37:15
John
So I before we started the company did I did a lot of deals with major companies on build a suits, working with developers and communities to really I had to take a lot of pride in going up and down 75 and say, no, I did that deal or I did that deal. So we built a team. So we now have 12 East Side industrial guys that allows us to service all our customers and clients.
00:02:37:17 - 00:02:57:19
John
Effectively throughout the market. When I started to ensure we then grown it to where we have about 60 brokers and about another hundred or so support for folks in property project management and administrative. So it's been a it's been a real fun ride. It's we've had to the top, we've been at the top and we work hard to keep it there.
00:02:57:21 - 00:03:25:03
Jennifer
Yeah. Well, you're natural at sales. Not everyone is. But I think that's one of the key formulas for your personal success and the success of the company. You know, sales is an interesting thing. And I know you have some strong opinions on sales. What are the tactics and best practices to win a deal? And let me pause for a second, because I think everyone needs to know you're working on big deals.
00:03:25:03 - 00:03:34:09
Jennifer
I mean, these are multimillion dollar deals, huge properties, huge opportunities. Share those tactics and best practices for everyone.
00:03:34:09 - 00:03:55:03
John
Well, I think you've got to work hard. So that's the hard part. And we say around here, the heart of the work, the luckier you are. You make your own luck and you've got to be consistent. You have to be committed to success, committed to your customers and work with our clients and come up with solutions for them.
00:03:55:05 - 00:04:13:17
John
For example, I mean, we, we're given a task to find a large office building for a major company here in town. And they gave us a very tight geographical area, and we creatively came up with a solution that allowed them to buy the building that expand the building that are now a major corporation here in town.
00:04:13:19 - 00:04:32:21
John
I said that we made their name, but, the the principles were great to work with and we continue to have a great relationship with them. So success is relationships. You mean you really have to earn the respect and to continue to have that respect as you move on year to year with them?
00:04:32:23 - 00:05:01:01
Jennifer
Yeah. Well, one thing that you do and signature does really, really well is you create, you just explain that you create the opportunity for people. So if somebody has a need, you go and find the want. It doesn't magically appear. You make it happen. And I think that's a key for anyone listening to sales today at sales is about solving problems, and it's your job to solve the problem, not to make a sale.
00:05:01:03 - 00:05:26:17
Jennifer
And I think that's something that that you all do magically. You mentioned hard work. Grit comes to mind when you talk about hard work, and I think grit is different for each generation to know. You've been in the industry for some time. You know, there's a lot of discussion with CEOs of what grit means and what hard work means and what different generations feel hard work is.
00:05:26:19 - 00:05:28:04
Jennifer
How do you define grit?
00:05:28:07 - 00:05:58:20
John
You're going to hear me say this a couple times. You have to be relentless. You just have to be able to go through that wall and just keep going at it. And, you know, being aggressive with creative approach is is a secret to being able to come up with a solution. So having grit is just grinding it out day day after day, being consistent, keeping your your hours, you know, knowing that people are counting on you and then you've been able to deliver for them.
00:05:58:23 - 00:06:25:11
Jennifer
Well, the relentless is different for different people, right? So those graduating from business school right now might not understand the hours that go in and the tenacity and the courage quite frankly, it takes. And being fearless. Can you describe a little bit more about, you know, what what is hard work? Are you making so many calls a day?
00:06:25:11 - 00:06:34:21
Jennifer
Are you out there, work in the pavement? How do you create those opportunities for yourself a little bit more detail for a younger person to understand?
00:06:34:23 - 00:06:55:18
John
Sure. I think it really comes down to organization. I mean, as you know, I get in early, have to be able to have that daily list, know what your objectives are for each day and then check them off as you go through, have a prioritization of exactly what are your key deals that you want to work on, are key objectives for the deal and then solve them.
00:06:55:18 - 00:07:22:09
John
So being organized and then having enough time to get them done, I mean, I have a daily list that I go through every day. You've seen copies of it, and it's just important to be able to have that consistency and push yourself. Now, I mean, I think about all the successful people around the world, and I haven't seen anybody that's built themselves an organization that hasn't done for less than 12 hours a day.
00:07:22:11 - 00:07:40:00
John
And so that's one thing. When we interview people, are you willing to commit yourself to get to that successful level? So then you can make the choices of how your life is. If you don't make that commitment, you're not going to be able to have the ability to make those choices. And I've got a lot of I have a lot of great choices.
00:07:40:02 - 00:07:53:11
Jennifer
You said harder, you're harder. You work the more opportunity you have, and you're lucky to have that hard work. So, I'm going to remember that we're lucky to have the hard work.
00:07:53:13 - 00:08:04:13
John
Well, you have to do what you enjoy, Jennifer. I mean, so and I think that's, you know, advice to someone who's in school is find something that you want to do and be, you know, commit yourself to it.
00:08:04:15 - 00:08:31:13
Jennifer
Yeah. Structure, commitment, tenacity, grit. Yeah. I think, you know, I've heard other executives say that, you know, and I'm not saying this, but I've heard other people either complain or vent that people don't understand the amount of work it takes to be successful. So you're you exude it. And I'm I'm grateful you're on the program. Know your industry.
00:08:31:13 - 00:08:55:17
Jennifer
Commercial real estate has quite a few key indicators that help other executives make decisions. And you're one of those leading indicators, it helps us know what's going on as it relates to markets, as it relates to interest rates, all of that. Can you give us some insight for the other CEOs listening today? What what are your predictions?
00:08:55:17 - 00:09:02:16
Jennifer
What's going on in the industry right now? What what Intel do you have, so to speak?
00:09:02:18 - 00:09:25:16
John
Well, as you said, interest rates are a key factor in commercial real estate. When they when they're low, people tend to borrow more money than to get projects done. When they're high, people stop doing transactions because they're looking to maintain their current base and employee's business. So interest rates are key. You know, we've been fortunate that they moved down last year.
00:09:25:16 - 00:09:47:05
John
So that's made people feel more optimistic. We're seeing some good activity for these cold weeks of the year. Usually it doesn't really pick up until spring. But so it's interest rates I mean, automotive sales, we we are an automotive town. We're also a mortgage town. We're also a health care town. So people think that we're just automotive.
00:09:47:05 - 00:10:10:01
John
But if you look at the numbers, there is many people in health care are is as are at the big three. There are as many large mortgage companies. It's not the Motor City anymore. You say it's the mortgage city. So the diversification that we've seen when I first started out, I'd say 80% of the buildings were manufacturing. Now it's 20% in manufacturing and 80% service related.
00:10:10:03 - 00:10:32:06
John
Yeah. So watching how the industry and the market has changed is, you know, we just don't go after the manufacturing companies. We also go for everyone that was out in the market. Yeah. So we you know the the inflation rate, the interest rates, the job creation, those are all important key indicators. For my particular industry, you're looking at vacancy rates.
00:10:32:08 - 00:10:54:12
John
I mean, you look at the office market, you look at retail, industrial. The vacancy rates will determine how people feel about whether they're going to lease a building that generally if the interest rate, if the I'm sorry if the vacancy rate is above 10%, it's landlord's market. I'm sorry. It's it's above 10%. It's a ten. It's mark. If it's below 10% that's a landlord's market.
00:10:54:12 - 00:11:17:17
John
So right now we've the vacancy rates are about 5 to 6%. An industrial zone. So tenants are buyers market in the office. It's the opposite. It's you know 2,025%. So it's a tenant's market. So those are just some of the key indicators that we have. We also look at what are the construction costs. Are where the stock market is absorption and then public policy.
00:11:17:19 - 00:11:40:22
John
I mean if you look at what the policy done with EV and tariffs at all affects how people feel about whether they go make a major decision, most people don't understand to make a commitment to lease or buy building what we're doing is just the very tip of the iceberg. Everything else that goes into that major decision. As you know, Jennifer, it's very complicated with people and customers and vendors, etc..
00:11:40:24 - 00:11:49:24
John
So we sort of view ourselves as the producers, like in a movie. So we're not the best actor actors, but we're the ones that help everything get done.
00:11:50:01 - 00:12:09:24
Jennifer
Yeah. I'm sure you've had some monumental moments in your career along the way. Some good, some not so good. They shape us, they define us. Do you want to share a couple of monumental moments that you've had in your career as a leader? Maybe a good one and a not so good one, but you learned from it?
00:12:10:01 - 00:12:33:16
John
Well, I mean, first, making the decision to get in strictly contingent fee basis and willing to take that risk was a minimal decision. But if you have confidence in your ability, you're willing to do that. As you know, that's one of our you know, we're all commission straight fee basis, organization. So starting and out of college, it's very unusual.
00:12:33:16 - 00:12:54:21
John
Was willing to do that. When we started the company in 1989, it was there was a recession going on. And so that that was it wasn't as bad as it was in 1980. Interest rates in 1980 were 22%. You know, there were only 10% in 1989. But, so I sort of look askance at people saying, well, I don't want to pay more than 6% on a mortgage.
00:12:54:21 - 00:13:08:19
John
I think that's not a bad deal. If you look at what the interest rates have been over time. So those are just some of the things that we think have been major choices in my career. Also, getting married to a great wife, that was a major decision.
00:13:08:24 - 00:13:32:00
Jennifer
Well, let's let's talk about the 100% commission, because I know not many companies are on that for talent leaders out there that are trying to recruit for sales staff or for grit, tenacity, how do you hire someone at 100% commission? No base, you know, how do you get them through the door?
00:13:32:02 - 00:13:58:07
John
Well, in all reality, we do get in the small drawer that just covers the monthly. Not so. They're not like have no money coming in, but it's nothing that's sustain them. You want people that have confidence in their ability to succeed and have an unlimited ceiling. So it's our philosophy. If you make someone too comfortable, they're not going to go out and push as much as they need to because they're a little too comfortable.
00:13:58:11 - 00:14:04:06
John
You have to be uncomfortable with being in the world so and be comfortable with being uncomfortable.
00:14:04:08 - 00:14:33:15
Jennifer
Yeah, talk about a risk. You want people who are willing to take risks to come into your organization. And there's probably a certain skill set there. Confidence is a big one. But also, you know, controlling fear, right? Not coming in fearful but being aggressive. One of the things that you do really well is your networking, your master networker.
00:14:33:17 - 00:14:48:10
Jennifer
Can you tell us more about how you do that? Is it purposeful or are you natural at it? Is it is it to build your business? You know? Tell us more about how you networking why you network.
00:14:48:12 - 00:15:09:16
John
Well, it's it's risky. I mean, how many people go into the room that you don't know anybody? You have to start having a conversation with folks. It's a matter of just putting yourself out there, being friendly, smiling and be a listener. I mean, I think so many people don't understand that, you know, we have two years in one mouth and they should be used proportionately.
00:15:09:18 - 00:15:36:22
John
And so, I mean, being the listener, I think is key to working a room and getting to know people and having a sincere interest in what they're saying and also finding common ground with them. As you know, I'm a big sports fan, so that's fairly easy these days with how well our teams are doing. So it's it's all fun and, you know, just enjoy getting to know people because you never know what's going to be my, my best client was a company called Jabil Circuit.
00:15:36:22 - 00:16:00:06
John
I met Bill knocking on his door and became best friends with him. He started off with 50 people in the shop, and by the time he retired 20 years later, he had 175,000 employees. I did deals with all over the world and just, you know, having to work in different markets, in different countries, you know, you had to be comfortable going in there and, you know, be yourself.
00:16:00:08 - 00:16:26:20
Jennifer
Yeah. And I think that's what a lot of young sales professionals get wrong is they have an ulterior motive when they meet people and they're super aggressive in their pitch. And you mention two ears in one mouth, how can you solve people's problems, which is the key to sales without listening, right. What is the problem and can you solve it?
00:16:26:20 - 00:16:47:23
Jennifer
And if you can't solve it, maybe you know someone who can't, right. So that that's key. You know, you have been leading your company for many, many years and everyone has their own style. How do you lead and inspire the folks that report into you?
00:16:48:00 - 00:17:15:12
John
Well, we are a big believer in leading by example. So everyone's got their own style. So I mean brokers historically don't like to be told what to do anymore than I, you as you know. So you have to you have to manage with a very soft touch lead by example and closing deals and making sure people you know, quietly hear about deals inspires people.
00:17:15:12 - 00:17:35:09
John
So knowing, seeing success around the office is, you know, drive people for more success. Knowing someone who just did a major deal means you want to go out. And if you do a major deal or satisfy a client. So, I mean, it's all having a, you know, in the office. I mean, when we have our monthly salesmen, if you have one tomorrow morning, all the south brokers are together.
00:17:35:14 - 00:17:56:04
John
It's a great buzz. In the conference room. We got 45 brokers just talking. And, you know, sometimes we sort of hate to stop it because we should just let it go all day because they just keep talking so enthusiastically with each other. So, you know, letting salespeople have their own style and you find out that you end up working with people more like you.
00:17:56:06 - 00:18:15:23
John
So my partner, I have a little different personality. And so more of the people he works with are more like him and vice versa for me. So I think finding people you're comfortable with and my wife says, how come all your best friends are people you've done deals with over the years? I said, well, it's because you get to know them so well that you become best friends with them.
00:18:16:00 - 00:18:25:24
John
And you know some that I've been friends with some of these guys for 30 or 40 years. And it's just it's a fun knowing you never know who you're going to meet. Go to knocking on that next door.
00:18:26:01 - 00:18:50:01
Jennifer
And again, that's about that genuine be yourself. That's why you're friends with your clients. Not not many people can say that. John, that your your friends with your clients, you really care about their success. And I think I think that's maybe your, your secret sauce is you care about someone's success and you want to make them successful. What's their goal?
00:18:50:01 - 00:19:14:21
Jennifer
How do you how do you make that happen? And I think that's a lesson that anyone in business can learn from you. You know, on this program, we, we try to demystify the seed of a CEO. Sometimes the title intimidates people, sometimes people create stereotypes or what have you. But let's talk about you as a human. You mentioned your lovely wife.
00:19:14:23 - 00:19:17:19
Jennifer
And how long have you been married, John?
00:19:17:21 - 00:19:20:14
John
It's 41 years. I'm gonna be 42 in August.
00:19:20:16 - 00:19:23:14
Jennifer
Oh, you better do something nice in August, John.
00:19:23:16 - 00:19:27:00
John
I be working with the Hawaii for our 40th, so that was special.
00:19:27:00 - 00:19:32:18
Jennifer
So, yeah. What's a daily routine that keeps you motivated?
00:19:32:20 - 00:19:54:12
John
Well, it's probably extreme to say the least. I mean, I get up at 3:00 in the morning, come to the office to be here by 330, get organized, exercise. I sit there, my assistant comes in at six. He does a great job, and we got to be ready in this town. This is still an industrial town. You can still get a hold of people by seven 730.
00:19:54:12 - 00:20:11:15
John
All you have to do is drive around the freeways at 730 and see how busy they are. And they're in getting ready to meet people. You have to be organized. So getting in early, what what is the secret of that? And when we were raising my daughters, that allowed me to see all their events later in the afternoon, 3 or 4 or 5:00.
00:20:11:15 - 00:20:29:16
John
So I never missed any of those events. So, it's tough because, you know, I go to bed at nine, but I think that's a good time and get started and be organized. And you follow. I'm a morning person, so I'm full of energy. So maybe a little tough for somebody. It was an hour, but for us, it works in this town.
00:20:29:18 - 00:20:32:01
Jennifer
What what time do you make your first phone call?
00:20:32:04 - 00:20:49:18
John
Well, you know, it's I was reading an article that it's getting more difficult to make phone calls to people these days. They want to be texted first before you call them. So it's a text first, and then you'll see if they're available. But yeah, I'm I'm texting and emailing people by six, 615 615.
00:20:49:20 - 00:21:00:02
Jennifer
Good to know. And that's you're at the top of the email. And then then you know you can call them. Do you have a personal mantra that keeps you focused and motivated?
00:21:00:05 - 00:21:23:18
John
I think the the mantra that is, is, is important for us is being relentless in pursuit of our goals. As I said earlier, that having success allows you to make choices, and having choices gives you that freedom to live the life the way you want to. My my high school yearbook by my saying underneath by picture was live life to the fullest.
00:21:23:20 - 00:21:29:11
John
And we believe that's, you know, true. Every day you got to get the most out of it as you can.
00:21:29:13 - 00:21:41:24
Jennifer
Yeah. So don't waste a minute. No. And that's really good advice for a young person. Any other advice for a young person that's starting their career right now? You're super successful.
00:21:42:01 - 00:21:58:21
John
You got you have to find something you really enjoy doing because then it's not work. I don't do you. What I do is work. It's what I want to do. And it's a challenge. You got the ups and the downs. You have great clients, you have lousy clients, and that all comes around. I mean, our business is like a roller coaster.
00:21:58:21 - 00:22:10:12
John
You never know what deals done until you actually see the money in your bank account. So but being able to find something you really enjoy allows you to do that. Be excited about each day as it comes up.
00:22:10:14 - 00:22:30:05
Jennifer
You create the fun. You create the fun within your own job. You're really good at that. And I know you're a big sports fan. For those that don't know, John's here in Detroit, Michigan, big University of Michigan football fan. That brings you much joy. I know you go to every game. Have you missed a game?
00:22:30:07 - 00:22:50:03
John
I think I've missed seven home games since 1974. So that's for football. Basketball. I watch because the times be a little tough with my schedule, but the join us in us beat Alabama in the Rose Bowl and and win the national championship in Houston. And now most of you may not know that Jennifer's a Michigan State Spartan fan.
00:22:50:04 - 00:22:55:07
John
So we have a natural rivalry. I enjoyed winning the game on Friday night. Sorry, Jennifer.
00:22:55:09 - 00:23:00:07
Jennifer
I try to be myself there, but yeah, yeah, that was that.
00:23:00:09 - 00:23:16:08
John
It's just participating in it's a community event. I mean, we've got a bunch of guys here and gals that went to Michigan somewhat of the Michigan State. And so it's a friendly rivalry. Again, getting to know people. You get to know what what what's important to them. And a lot of folks really like sports.
00:23:16:12 - 00:23:34:12
Jennifer
So, you know, I, I like to ask this question because people think that within their careers and within their lives, there are two separate paths. You can be happy at both. Right? How do you define happiness for yourself?
00:23:34:14 - 00:23:52:03
John
Well, first of all, it starts with family. So you got to be able to enjoy being home and being with your family and traveling. You have to have your health. You can't be happy without your health. And I mean, that's that's really important to me. As you get older, you see what happens to folks if they have aches and pains and how it affects them.
00:23:52:05 - 00:24:13:02
John
Obviously friends. Friends are great. Be happy. You know, sports, of course. You know, I'm a broker, so making deals really is a lot of fun. Just knowing that you made that deal is great. And then finally having long term relationships, knowing that, as you know, we have some friends in common. We have a lot of fun with each other as we we go through the years.
00:24:13:02 - 00:24:16:10
John
So it's a combination of all those.
00:24:16:12 - 00:24:42:04
Jennifer
Well son. Well said. Well, thank you so much for being on the program and sharing your wisdom with those listening today. There's a lot of takeaways. We're lucky to have hard work. We should be tenacious, tenacious and have that grit and organize yourself every minute is an opportunity and grab it. So. But first and foremost, it's your wife and family.
00:24:42:06 - 00:24:56:05
Jennifer
You've mentioned them several times on this. And as successful as you are, you structure your day to make sure that you're there for them. So congratulations on that and thank you for being on the program. And keep shining bright like Frank.
00:24:56:07 - 00:24:59:02
John
All right. Thank you Jennifer. Appreciate the opportunity.
00:24:59:04 - 00:25:02:16
Jennifer
All right. Thank you. That's a wrap everyone. We'll see you next time.
00:25:02:18 - 00:25:03:03
John
All right.