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Bob Tetiva, CEO of SenseArena, Prague, Czech Republic, headquartered Sportstech start-up, and Yannick Yoshizawa, VP for tennis, spoke to Rudolf Falat, founder of the Voice of FinTech podcast, about their VR training tool for tennis and ice-hockey and how it helps professionals and amateurs to get an additional edge.
Aiming to inspire entrepreneurs around the world to launch their new ventures. Connect FinTech enthusiasts with start-ups, incubators, accelerators, investors and incumbents.
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[00:00:00] Voice of FinTech.
Welcome to Voice of FinTech, a podcast mapping out the Swiss and global FinTech scene connecting FinTech enthusiasts with startups, incubators, accelerators, business engines, and VCs, and incumbents interested in partnerships. Voice of FinTech will help you navigate the FinTech ecosystem here. You can listen to the startup founder stories, what investors and incumbents are looking for when dealing with startups and find out more about resources provided by incubators and accelerators. My name is Rudi Falat, and I'll be hosting this podcast.
Hello and welcome to Voice of FinTech. Today we're going to do something special and I call it a sports tech [00:01:00] special because we're going to talk to Bob and Yannick from CINA that developed a VR training tool for tennis players and is hockey players. Because these days it's not enough to work hard and be talented, but you need to look for an edge also mentally in anywhere you can leverage technology as well.
So I'm very curious to find out more. Welcome, Bob and Yani. How are you? . Very good. Thank you for the invitation to take part of in your podcast. Really. Yes. Thank you for having us, Ru. Great to have you here and great to reconnect as well, so. , can you explain a little bit how did you get to a juncture of sports and technology?
Sports has been in my soul since my childhood. I, I played basketball professionally and then did two other sports. When I finished the, the professional career, my dad was at two Olympics actually. So my whole family is just the sports centric I would call it. But as I didn't. To for, for living really. I, um, I finished my [00:02:00] university degree and then went on my, onto my corporate, um, career, actually releasing or developing products for telecommunications.
And then after 15 years spending in companies that were in fact around the brand of, uh, oh two telephonic. I decided to try it on my own. CNA is my third startup, but the previous ones were in sports as well. It made a return to what I love and obviously technology. Being a guy who brings products to life, it's something natural.
So the match of new technologies. And sports. That's actually what drives me forward and what I believe in. Okay. And how about you, Yik? Thanks, Ru. Um, so I actually, I'm from Brazil originally. Grew up playing tennis, a very sports oriented family as well. Got the opportunity to come to the United States with a scholarship to play college tennis in a D one school, university of South [00:03:00] Florida, where I graduated in.
And managed plate, let's say the initial levels of the pro on the futures and challengers, but then decided and saw how competitive it is. And I got a big interest more on the professional aspect of my career and management. And therefore, I worked at the W C A, which is the Women's Tennis Association for nine years of my life in operations, player relations and supervisor.
And then just being exposed to all these very high level professional players in seeing how each one of them, they're always looking for their edge and just different tools, different technologists, as you mentioned by God to exposed to just different products. So, and after the WT. I went on to work for consulting for about a year where I missed sports a lot.
And then I was able and lucky to find this opportunity with Saint Arena, where I [00:04:00] have joined the team recently and definitely, basically composed these two aspects where I grew up playing sports and seeing a tool, a futuristic tool that is already present now that gives that, that I saw that I wish I had back when I was.
If I may add to this funny story, how we met for the first time with Yian because it was really out of the blue. It was half year before the product went out, and we had advisors, obviously who were helping us to for the scope, uh, and stuff like that. But then obviously coming closer to the launch, we decided that we need some people for marketing and the commercial, uh, part of the journey.
So we started to advertise for a position of a business development guy, but we received. Quite a decent number of cvs. One of them was Yani and we shortly did him at, uh, interviews and then met him in Tampa for in-person interview, which was for the first time we didn't know each other at all. [00:05:00] And he tried to the, the product himself for the first time and he was not able to hit the ball at all.
And they, it was ended by a hilarious action that actually the controller who is attached, or which is attached to our special haptic racket. Took off from the rocket and flew over the place where we had the demo for him, almost smashed one, one part of the, of the wall. And, but the was so happy for the technology that even this crash at the beginning was nothing to actually block him from jumping on.
And now we have product that is you like 5,000 times better than it was before, but it started. Just like you would expect a first time interview, Rudi, so let's talk about the problem that you're solving. Why do tennis players or is hockey players need you tool? What is the problem that they need?
Sorting. Well, general. Vision is universal for any sport. When [00:06:00] I started that, and obviously that keeps going, my strong belief is that there is something more to add to the athletic training and that more is to actually work more on your mental, on your cognitive side of the performance, not on the physical one that is already.
So developed and over exaggerated, I would call it, with all tech and non-tech and nutrition and rehabilitation and everything. So that there is not much edge to add to that. But on the side of your psychological, mental and cognitive development of the game, there hasn't been much done. So, uh, that's, that's the whole principle actually help the.
to get better because of what they do, what is triggered in their brain, how the brain influences the moves, the, the tactics, the, the strategies of the play. And that's very much similar to hockey, basketball, baseball, [00:07:00] tennis, other sports. So it happened to, for us that we started with hockey because of, I'm coming from Czech.
Uh, the history, uh, of the country, um, and tennis has been just a logical extension. I call it second baby, uh, because again, it's, it's another sport where there is a big know-how. In my country as well as the technology, it's another swing sports, there is a lot of, lots of parallel technological aspects into it that, that we could have.
So how does your tool work and what's the focus? Is the focus on the physical part, on the technical part, or? , what's the key benefit that you can gain from this? Yeah, I think since SenseArena, as Bob has alluded a little bit already, is to really focus on the mental aspect of the game, which has been neglected for a long period of time.
And I bet if you go and ask most of professionals on which one, it's the most important part [00:08:00] of their needs right now. I would say most of them would say they're mental, but then you ask them how do they train their mental aspect? And a lot of people have a hard time answering. So I think that's where Sensor Arena brings, and it should give more specific on how it works, able to put tennis players into specific situations through virtual reality.
You put a headset on and you can basically customize a specific situation that either you're not comfortable in or that you want to visualize the game better for you if it's used for a warmup or just improving your mental cognitive skills. , that's what we're here for. And then I think one aspect, uh, you know, Bob can also mention a little bit more, it's that aspect of that, even though we're a mental trainee, a lot of people think of being ecstatic or be sitting down and just working on your brain.
What we do is that we allow you to go through those specific situations. , but with a very immersive field. Therefore, you [00:09:00] feel that you're in a tennis court. You feel that you have a tennis racket in your hand. Therefore, like basically you go through those cognitive training, but also you feel immersive on a tennis court.
Therefore, it's still active. You're still playing tennis or playing hockey at this aspect. Then I know. No data. It's a big part to us. And with technology, that's a beauty that comes with sensor arena as well. And that means shouldn't be more specific. We're able to track a lot of things that you cannot do it at on courts.
So for example, we're able to track your reaction times. So how long does it take for you to react to a very quick balling you when you need to volley, or how long does it take for you to take a decision? When a ball comes to you, how long does it take for you to hit a ball to someone's forehead or down the line or whatnot?
As well as we have opponent awareness, we have the ability to track how long do you keep your eyes [00:10:00] into your opponent until you turn to hit that ball and make that decision. So those are the small things. Every user has the ability to track and see how much they improve over time as. . So we talked about that even though tennis is an individual sport, many players travel with their entourage or with their team.
They have physical trainers, they have tennis coaches. Maybe only some of them have mental coaches with them. But how does your tool differ from having a mental coach on the team with you? Great question and I. It's if you go back in the eighties, nineties, players would travel by themselves or either, mostly if they would travel with someone, it would be with just their tennis coach.
Now the physical aspect has had a boom in the last 20 years, so therefore, now, You see a lot of people traveling with a fitness coach, and now you started seeing that happening with the mental part of it, even though it's very small, and two, [00:11:00] it's very expensive. So if you go and look at the professionals who have the ability to afford it, you see probably only the top 30 to 40 players actually travel with a fitness coach and then a psychologist.
Probably you'll see 5% of players that travel with that, if that. You know what a sensor arena gives you? The ability, it puts a tool that waits less than one kilo for you to travel anywhere, and that it gives you the ability to do it really from anywhere in your hotel room, at a gym, at a airport while you're travel.
So really it just expands that mental training to another level instead of like taking that psychology with you, in which tennis coach and psychologist, they're gonna help you on how to use it. But also it's very self-sufficient, where after a couple tries, you're able to understand your needs. And then basically have the ability to use SenseArena [00:12:00] yourself.
And if you need the help and guidance from professionals, then you'll have the ability to do, and really, uh, let me just compliment too, what Jank said, and obviously talking about missing the, the winner, uh, the, the final of the US opens, it's maybe for the top 10, top 50 players in the world, but the other aspects that the technology brings is for the.
Kids and juniors that have never actually played at the center court or at a big tournament, we have, uh, stadiums are in us in the system where they can get ready for the experience to play in front of Big Ho crowd. With all, all the sounds and noises, obviously changing the surfaces, et cetera. The pro usage is just like for the top players, but the proposition is for kids as well to help them to get there and to the point of the teams and the coaches.
Imagine that you have. Use and SenseArena for your training. [00:13:00] Obviously you don't have, uh, your coach with you. You don't travel together. If you are at the age of 14 and you go around your country or the continent, you cannot afford to have your coach with you. But he can actually, virtually. Connect your training session in the helmet in vr, and you can spend some time together, you can chat.
Instead of just being on a phone call, you can share the same tennis environment and you feel obviously much better than, and it's again, support for your mental fitness, for your confidence just to be feeling the same as if you train at home with your. That's, that's something that is coming very soon, and that's the beauty of the technology.
That's what I love about doing the, the, the, the borders of what can be achieved and not using the technology for the sake of this is vr. It's cool. No, it's obviously, it's cool, but it's cool because it can actually. Extend your life and show you something or give you something that that was otherwise [00:14:00] impossible.
And of course there's been a huge boost in terms of using analytics, using all kinds of tools to help players to get more insight in what's really they are doing well, whether they're not doing so well, whether you talk about sensors in the record on the wrist or camera systems on the court. So how do you fit into this?
You mentioned focusing on the mental part, but can you also improve some technical. Of your game using a tool or how does that work? So basically what I would say here, big thing that we're taking to the next level where you see all the way from juniors to college players to pros, it's video analysis, right?
So right now what happens is that a lot of players, the coaches, they sit down with their players. They're 13 year old and they go through their match that they just won or lost to tell them. You need to improve this or that and whatnot. The we're on 2022 and this, especially this new [00:15:00] generation, it's coming down that, okay, this is not engaging in interactive anymore.
Players don't have the patience and to go through and really understand all that aspect. So this SenseArena having the ability for you to. Visualize and feel completely immersed in the situation that your coach just mentioned that, okay, look, you went through this. At this point, you got had that backend and you had to go cross court instead of down the line.
Now the player is learning. through the tool in itself. So you know, all the video analysis, the videos that people, uh, use it, it's great. But I think sensor arena, it's taking it to another level. And once you have the ability now hopefully, , maybe you are gonna start being able to see your match into VR and then actually see from the first view person that takes the aspect to another level.
And then all these different tools that you mentioned, like cameras everywhere, sensors in the [00:16:00] racket. I think that actually is just a compliment to sensor in. As Bob said in the beginning, the tennis is just a baby and, and the beauty of it. That we just continue to develop and evolve in all these twos. I believe it will actually complement sensor arena and it will be able to integrate in many different ways for the player to have in one stop shop.
Alright. While digital transformation and VR and Metaverse that is included in it, received the boost during the pandemic, aren't you or weren't you afraid that the enthusiasm for such solutions can fade? Now that the restrictions are being lifted and people can actually get on court and play tennis in person.
I was, honestly, I was, if you're speaking about Covid and the pandemic situation that was here globally, still a year ago, and if I look back, actually we, or we started the journey before that, we had product that was more B2B oriented. And the fact that all clubs, teams, [00:17:00] and training centers were forced to close their operation when Covid had had a, could have, you know, tragic impact onto our business.
But we were fortunate that there was a B2C product in the pipeline already in development. It was, in fact, three months after Covid started, we launched our home version very affordable on the Oculus Quest helmet. that actually created a momentum for everybody who wanted to do some sport at this is very much the unique opportunity to play hockey when the ice rings were closed.
So that, that helped us a lot. And I was afraid to, back to your question, that the ones that relief, there might be a down spike of not being any more attractive. Uh, with our proposition, but it's actually the opposite. We keep growing in sales, in usage, everything. Very honestly. Covid helped us to, to send the message to the public that everybody gave it a go, and then we just [00:18:00] build based on that and we keep working, keep growing.
And is your solution intended for professionals or for amateurs? I don't wanna say for everybody because it's vague, but the typical user of ours is in the age of, say, between 11 and 16 years old, which is, and there is a reason for that. Uh, it's actually the time period when human being can absorb the most.
Their brain can absorb the most from what they see, what they experience. It's called the sponge age. That's absolutely logic that kids at that age actually use our system because they help. they help solve in actually improving their performance. But then we have a big number of professional tennis players, as well as hockey teams and goalies and players that use the system as well.
Not like for the same reasons, like the kids, but they found their use cases to actually get better at. So I understand a very established US Tennis pro, Jennifer Brady tried your [00:19:00] tool and she's stressed in an interview that it's not a game, right? It's not a game. It's a training tool for professionals or for amateur.
So conversely though, can a gamer use it as a game or not? This is a good question to actually make it clear what sensor is. We don't call us a game or even more, we definitely are not a video game. We are a training tool, but any sport, any training has to be fun. Drilling staff just for the sake of making 5,000 squats or pull-ups, it's not fun, fun at all.
In every aspect of our environment of the product, there there is gamification, so you. Play for a score that you can benchmark with other players that have done the same drill before you around the world. So you nicely see how far are you from the best, et cetera, which creates the competitive aspects of using SenseArena.
And that's what we see as the gamification in that. And we will be extending this going [00:20:00] forward. But unless you know how to play tennis or how to play hockey, how to stop pucks, uh, as a goal. You will have hard time, and obviously we have versions of the platform that is for really the young kids. So speaking about, for instance, the hockey version, obviously if you are a young kid and you shoot PS onto the net, there is a virtual goalie that is definitely smaller than a pro in the pro version.
So, . It is fun, but it is still a training tool and we want to keep it as it is because that's our vision. That's our belief that we wanna help athletes to get better and use the digital technology for their benefit. So VR headsets are getting better and better, but still. One could argue they're quite heavy.
How long can you train with your tool and Oculus quest to headset? Yeah, I think the, when you say it's still quite high, I just wanna make sure like, uh, people don't think that they're putting a brick in their head. I think it's, uh, right now it's about [00:21:00] 400 grams. The headset, they're four you feet feel, of course, you know the headset around you.
But at the same time, I wouldn't say that it's, it's a very. To therefore what we recommend and what we've seen people using it, it's between 20 to 30 minutes on a daily basis. Sometimes they do three times a week. Uh, I would say basically the, that sweet spots where we see it. And then I think at the same time, that's the beauty of SenseArena.
It's that excites you to get back into the court, right? They're not here to suck you in into the VR and then have you play here for three hours, right? It's that compliment to your training. And then of course, as the headsets, Get better that we see already happening. I have never actually seen somebody who would be like wasted by the fact that the helmet would be heavy, but because it's a workout, you are moving, you are making the same moves as onco or on ice.
So [00:22:00] within 15 minutes you would be sweat like hell and, and then actually, because the training is so intensive there, it. You and then virtual teammates or opponent on the other side of the net so that everything is really focused onto you. So as the annex set, within 20 minutes, you will feel the physical exhaustion from that.
Okay? You can take a break and come back the following day or the following day, go on court, have on court, uh, session, and then come back the day after. So it's all up to the, the users. Specific scenarios, but the, the weight of the helmet hasn't been an issue. We have never came across that. It was more like that people get really exhausted from the sport itself.
Alright. Tennis coaches sometimes widely disagree about how their players should play, right? And if I use a technical example, you could see a movie King Richard, where Richard Williams was arguing for an open stance to be played by his daughters, whereas the coaches were still. Advocating the [00:23:00] closed stance from the eighties, maybe.
What sort of standard are you striving for when using your tool? Or is this customizable? In other words, can different coaches use it for different purposes or how does this work? Yeah, great question. I think just to clarify also from that technical perspective, in sensor, you're able to play with just different techniques.
If you got the, let's say, just. Is this example here between Nadal, Feder and Jaic. They all have different techniques, very different, but they still are able to hit ball. Same thing, sensor arena. You're able to hit it just like you would be hitting on a tennis court. You'll be hitting on sensor arena. Now from that mental as.
Aspect. You know, I think just like the technical aspect, there are things that work for some players. There are things that don't work for other players, and that's the part that it's very self-learning from player and coach and how you can put actually in a specific situation and train [00:24:00] data situation in a matter that you believe that.
You know, your player, your kid, or whoever that is, can improve their own. So just you put a coach and a player in a tennis court and then each one of them has a a little bit of a different aspect of their thoughts. Same here in sensory. We're gonna give you the tool for you to be able to visualize to work on your decision making and whatnot, and then you're able to tailor for.
Okay. The price money in tenants has been rising steadily over the past few decades, and also the endorsement deals, but it's still a very hard business, right? It's very hard business for players who are not in top 10, and they try to make a living at the same time because the game requirements, they need to put more people on the staff.
How does your tool fit? In other words, how do you make money in this sort of setting? We are a subscription based service, so you need the helmet, which is available across the world in major electronic [00:25:00] stores. The Oculus Quest, it is not our product, and our product is the software that comes on top of that, that you download from the stores and you need subscription.
For that. And then for tennis, we strongly advise that you buy our special haptic racket that simulates the weight and the balance point of standard rackets so that your immersive feel being on court is, is even better. And when we speak about if it is affordable, Oculus Quest nowadays costs cost 350 bucks.
Our software goes as low as $29 per month subscription fee. I would say comparing to the price of the courts and private sessions with the coach, that's really affordable and we made it like that on purpose because we want. To bring the technology to masses. Not to make it exclusive, but so that pretty much every say ambitious tennis kit can afford that and it can help them to get better.
And the rack, right? Yeah, [00:26:00] correct. And the rack. Now we have a deal that the rack comes out for free, but the prices is just below $100. So again, comparing to a standard truck, it's even cheaper. And you can start with, there is a free demo on the store, so you can download that for free. It's a seven days demo.
You can try it, you can try the environment without Rocket and then make your choice if you wanna invest, uh, in the subscription and in buying of the rocket, what's the best way to reach out to you and. Find out more about SenseArena. Well, it's, it's easy. If you go to ww.sensor.com you will see drill samples.
Obviously you can get the subscription there, the racket, uh, you can check what pro tennis players use cina or if you are on the hacky side, obviously there is the hack information as well, our website. That's the ideal. Thank you. Thank you very much and good luck to you, Bob, and uh, since. Thank you, Rudi.
Thank you for having us.[00:27:00]
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