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The Be The Church Podcast is for spiritual leaders who want to be challenged to lead like Jesus in everyday places—at home, in your church, at school, and in the workplace. Hosted by Be The Church founder Joel Wayne and Chapel Pointe pastor Luke Bilberry, each episode features bold, authentic conversations with business and ministry leaders that are rooted in Scripture. You'll learn how to expand your spiritual influence and leverage your leadership to advance the Kingdom of God. Let's be the church together! For more information, visit bethechurch.org/podcast.
Something that I think is really important to our Lord, and that it was captured in John 17, the longest recorded prayer in Scripture, is Jesus praying for His church Testament, literally in a couple of days. We are any generation that I believe that we are the day is upon us now where we will see at least some scripture in every language on the face of the earth that is still without scripture.
Joel Wayne:Welcome to the Be The Church podcast, where we equip spiritual leaders just like you to expand leverage your leadership, to advance the kingdom of God. I'm Joel Wayne, and today we are talking with John Chestnut. John Chestnut is the president and the CEO of Wycliffe Bible Translators USA. And we're gonna be talking about his leadership journey and how AI is even shaping Bible translation and distribution around the world. What it means to live in the sufficiency and the authority of the word of God?
Joel Wayne:These are big questions. And so today we get to welcome John Chestnut to the program. John, thank you so much for being a part of this.
John Chesnut:Delighted to be able to join you today. Thanks for having me. Really been looking forward to our time together.
Joel Wayne:Well, over the years, we've gotten to know each other some. We have. Yes. The church that I'm able to lead, but also my family, as you know, is a part of Wycliffe. And it's one of the most exciting things that we're a part of.
Joel Wayne:I mean, it really is. And a lot of that is because God's using you for leadership, and I just wanna say thank you. So it's pretty cool.
John Chesnut:Appreciate that. And as you know, Kelly and I feel very, very similar about you and Melissa, and just what a huge privilege it is just to get to journey and what God's doing around the world today. So thank you for that as well.
Joel Wayne:Yeah. Oh, it's a pleasure. Well, want I mean, I want these guys who are listening in right now to learn about your leadership journey and your story. If you don't mind, let's go back a little bit. Tell us about John Chestnut.
Joel Wayne:You lead a huge organization. Where did it all begin? What has God done in your life? Tell us your journey.
John Chesnut:Well, yeah. Thanks, Joel, again. Just, has, like all of us, God has, I have a story and God's story in my life. And it really goes back to when I was in middle school, of already at that point in time, feeling a prompting of that someday I would be in in ministry. I didn't know if that'd be bi vocational ministry or what, but it was at a a middle school summer camp that God really placed that on my heart.
John Chesnut:And and then as you might imagine, took all kinds of twists and turns through high school and still following Christ throughout that, but not really knowing what that was gonna be. Then Kelly and I got married several years ago now, and just continued to commit our way to the Lord and say, Lord, what do you wanna do? Went to seminary, Denver Seminary in the Denver, Colorado area. And out of that, God led us into church planting in the area there. And I didn't see myself ever becoming a church planter, but
Joel Wayne:through- That's how God works.
John Chesnut:That's how God works. Know? Just wasn't on my radar, but it was on God's radar. And so in the midst of getting really to capture a heart, not just for planting churches in the area, but God allowed us to participate in seeing a Vietnamese church plant come into existence, a Filipino church plant. Wow.
John Chesnut:And so that was part of just God continuing to give us eyes and a heart for the world, but it started in our own community. Backtracking just a little bit there, we also are a diverse and multicultural family. Know a little bit about this with our story, Joel, but we have-
Joel Wayne:I was gonna make sure you shared that, this part, because I think it's fascinating.
John Chesnut:We do, yes. So we have seven kids by birth and adoption, Our oldest three are biologically, and then we adopted a boy and a girl separately, different times from Vietnam. And then when we were serving with Wycliffe in The Philippines, we adopted a sibling set, boys, that are part of our family today. Then five of our kids now are married, one married, our oldest daughter married a young man who is dad was from Mexico, mom from The US here.
Joel Wayne:Yeah.
John Chesnut:Our second daughter married a Korean Italian. And then we say our son married a girl from West Virginia. So we really are kind of multicultural, you know, crossing. I tell people our dinner tables are, I'm an international negotiator. So the- Wow.
John Chesnut:The globe has come to our family and we delight in that.
Joel Wayne:Well, one from West Virginia may be more different than others from other It
John Chesnut:is. We're trying to be inclusive and cross really big boundaries there. That really is true.
Joel Wayne:That's a hard one. I got really good friends in West Virginia, and I give them a difficult time.
John Chesnut:You have to. It comes with living in West Virginia. Think it does. So
Joel Wayne:tell me, just to stay on this a little bit, how did you become the president of Wycliffe? In a little bit, I want you to tell the people about Wycliffe really what it does. But how did you like, you've said a little of that journey. He was preparing you.
John Chesnut:He was.
Joel Wayne:Planting a church, international church plants, adopting internationals. That's all how God works. Yeah. Yep. But tell us about that that year or two that led up to becoming the president and the CEO.
John Chesnut:Yeah. So again, great question. And, you know, kind of going back a little bit to the story in Denver, because that's part of it, that in the midst of our pastoring, we were co pastoring there, a church that co pastored or co planted with another friend, part of what we began to do is we engaged with an unreached people group in Central Asia. And as we began to engage and learn more about this community, what we realized, it was two to 3,000,000 people scattered across a very mountainous region area. And because of the sensitivities in the country, you couldn't talk a lot about it.
John Chesnut:So it took a while, but as we began to kind of get a lay of the land and find out who else was working in the area, what we learned was that they couldn't move forward. There were church planters there. There were people that were doing evangelism outreach and such very carefully and quietly, but they couldn't move forward because there was no scripture in the language this community. And so they came together and said, We've got to we have to figure this out. And so it was out of that process of seeing, you know, a heart for this particular language community and then finding out that, you know, this story is similar all around the world where, you know, you know, workers, Great Commission workers, desire to work and to see the church, you know, literally rise up in an area where there is no church.
John Chesnut:And but scripture is pretty foundational to that. And so it was really out of that passion for church planting that we kind of backed in the Bible translation and said, well, scripture's essential so that churches can be planted. And so that's what got us in the door. And then nine years in The Philippines working there and then moving back here to Orlando area where Wycliffe, US is based. And that started our journey towards moving into this role about eight years after we returned from The Philippines.
Joel Wayne:Fran, what's so interesting about that is, actually, I think I did a video for you guys a couple of years ago, and one of the things I was trying to communicate is the Bible is upstream of everything else. Everything else is downstream of the word of God.
John Chesnut:That's right.
Joel Wayne:And that's exactly what you just communicated about your own story. You recognized, hey, in church planting, and I think there's a leadership lesson already we could probably jump into, uses all things to further His kingdom, your past and your love and your journey with family and all that. And God's used all of it, but also you recognize in church planting, it's all downstream of the word of God. If they don't have the word of God, what are we doing?
John Chesnut:That's right. That's right. It all rests there. I mean, there are many churches, as you know, there's church planting movements that God is doing all around the world today at a level we've never seen before. But many of those church planters are working in what we would call majority languages, a nearby language that maybe would be the national language within a country.
John Chesnut:And what we find is that people can come to Christ if they have an understanding of those, at some level, of that majority language. Often what happens is that the roots don't go down deep into and so the church, the foundation is not as strong as what we want to see happen. But yet when Scripture comes to that language, the communities, in a language that they spoke in their homes, what they dream with, what they talk to their moms and dads with and things, it becomes transformational. And you're right, it's very foundational for then seeing healthy churches, evangelism, discipleship, and such take place there.
Joel Wayne:Yeah. Well, you guys do a great job talking about heart language. People need the Word of God in heart language.
John Chesnut:That's right.
Joel Wayne:So I always speak about it. When I meet a friend, I'm from the South originally, and people say, Y'all. Hey, y'all. And every time they do it up here in the North, I'm drawn to listen because that's my heart language. It's just what I grew up with.
Joel Wayne:It's familiar. It's the same thing with the Word of God, right?
John Chesnut:That's right.
Joel Wayne:Yeah. Well, tell if you don't mind, tell them because some people already are being pulled into this conversation and wanting to know more, what does Wycliffe do? Like, if they've never heard of Wycliffe before, what does it really do? Obviously, it's about the Bible, if they picked up on that, but tell us more about that.
John Chesnut:Yeah. So Wycliffe is a little more than 80 years old. I think we're 83 years old now. I'm not quite that age. You know, I may be showing some of that.
Joel Wayne:But you started it? No.
John Chesnut:Was thinking Yeah. Know exactly. I was there from the original, from the first day. I really was. But but the heart of Wycliffe, since our existence, has been we want to see God's word available in every language that needs scripture around the world.
John Chesnut:And so that's always been our heart. That's always been our passion, and we've been working on that for all of these now over eight decades. And the exciting part of where we are at today is for the first time, not just in Wycliffe's history, but in the first time for the history of the church, we are any generation that I believe that we are the day is upon us now where we will see at least some scripture in every language on the face of the earth that is still without scripture. That's what Wycliffe has been about. I mean, just pretty big, pretty exciting, and other areas kind of mundane of just keeping after it for eighty plus years.
John Chesnut:Well,
Joel Wayne:love the Word of God, obviously. I better. I'm a pastor, right?
John Chesnut:You better. That's right.
Joel Wayne:Kind of important. I just did something. I had to do a video earlier today, and I was talking with people. I was looking at one Timothy and talking about how scripture's God breathed, right? Already know this passage from chapter three, verse 16.
Joel Wayne:I started to recognize in Genesis chapter two, it says that God breathed life into Adam. And in John 20, it says that Jesus looked at the disciples and spoken to them, breathed on them that the Holy Spirit would fill them. Exactly. And people go, Oh, I want that to be me. And what I tell people, It is you, because He has given us the Word of God, the Bible, to do incredible things.
Joel Wayne:And That's you guys are taking that and putting it everywhere.
John Chesnut:We
Joel Wayne:are. It's pretty remarkable. How do you do your job then? So if you tell me, Hey, here are the three things I really do, because it seems so enormous, the scope of what you're doing, what does John Chestnut fill his day with?
John Chesnut:So a lot of my time is looking out and working with partners, literally from around the world, and connecting on how we're doing this together. And that is, you know, processes, systems, a lot of relationship. And you may ask, so, okay, so help me understand that a little bit more, you know, concretely. So over the years, many of you listening who would have heard of Wycliffe before, you may know of a Wycliffe missionary that you, your church supported or whatever. And that has been our work, that's been our history of the seventy plus years of how we are working.
John Chesnut:And literally, people who would leave from their home country, in this case The US, would move to another country. They'd begin to learn a language and move into a community. And then often a New Testament was birthed, really, for many, it was almost a lifetime ministry. A New Testament done in twenty, thirty, forty years. I mean, that was very, very common.
John Chesnut:Fast forward to where we're at today, and what I'm spending more and more of my time with, is that those people that invested their lives that way, I think, really have established a foundation for Bible translation globally. And today what's happened is that God is raising up people literally from around the world to participate. And often the people that are the primary, now translators and workers, are those that may be from that country or region of the world. And so that's why a lot of it has shifted in my role of maintaining partnerships with other people literally from around the world, seeing that our systems and processes, and that Wycliffe can support what God is doing in and among, we call them Global South believers, you know, those that are outside of the West. So that's a big part of how can I be part of that, at times helping to figure out new pathways to do that better?
John Chesnut:And other times, I'm trying to remove roadblocks that sometimes our own systems or processes just are not serving to really align with where we're seeing God move today.
Joel Wayne:So another way to even think about it, what are some of the leadership muscles? How would you classify that? Because I hear you have to you're really a gatherer, and you're a galvanizer, a connector. Is that fair?
John Chesnut:Very much so. Yes. Yep.
Joel Wayne:What else would you add to that list? Because I think that's good for just You've got a lot of people on this. Some are pastors, but a lot of people are just They wanna be biblical spiritual leaders. Wanna help lead with a biblical understanding, a biblical worldview. And a lot of times that's what they're called to do.
Joel Wayne:They're called to galvanize, to collect people. How else would you describe that for yourself?
John Chesnut:I would say that, obviously, you don't want to assume, but for this conversation, that the basic foundation of being spiritually attuned and keeping our eyes fixed on Christ, working in right relationship and such with others. I think assuming that foundation, they're building on that. What I see today as one of the greatest tools of leaders is how are you doing in the area of influence? Is your, what is your ethos? Is, how do you, how are you living your life in a manner that can encourage and influence one another?
John Chesnut:So, so much of our work, particularly today, the people that I'm engaging with do not show up on an org chart south of me. And so they're the partnerships, they're the relationships and things. And so how do we continue to engage, commit to where we're working together, but it really is working towards agreed upon ways of moving forward together? So I would say that's one of the highest tools that I work to continue to hone and improve upon. The other one that I would say, ain't other one, not the other one, but ain't, is something that I think is really important to our Lord, and that it was captured in John 17.
John Chesnut:You know, the longest recorded prayer in scripture is Jesus praying for his church around unity. And I will tell you, a lot of the work that I do is how are we doing and getting along with one another? What does it look like to be able to come together and work with literally these partners across cultures? But sometimes those partners may be my colleague right around the corner, you know, in office, the is that how are we doing at not just maintaining unity, but moving deeper into unity so that we can be the hands and feet, the testimony of who Christ is to others, both within the body of Christ as well as those that are outside the body of Christ that, prayerfully, someday will be joining the body of Christ. Yeah.
John Chesnut:And so those are two elements that I hold very, very high as part of my focus in leadership.
Joel Wayne:All right. So I love speaking about leadership. So I got one more question. You're probably not ready for this one, but that's good. We'll be fine.
John Chesnut:Okay. That's it. Okay. Yeah.
Joel Wayne:So what is one of the most important things that you did in your first year leading such a large organization? Even if you didn't plan on doing it, you look back on it later on and you go, And I'm so glad that I did this. Because others are trying to lead in a greater way, and they're trying to step into what God has called them to do. Is there any other lesson that you just go, Man, if you're starting to lead a large organization, you must, I would tell you to do this. What is that?
Joel Wayne:Doctor.
John Chesnut:Yeah. Great, great question. I'm going to give two there, if that's okay. You you asked for one, I'm going give two. But I think particularly those of us who are in full time ministry, that at times God's word may lose some of its freshness because we're around it all the time.
John Chesnut:So when I was in seminary, my Bible became my study. It was the textbook, basically. I found that over time, that it lost some of its life. I had a lot of it here. I just wasn't, you know, the emotional impact that Scripture was, I lost a little bit of that.
John Chesnut:In the Bible translation space, as you might imagine, it's easy to become our full work is looking at scripture all the time and trying to translate it. And the question is, were we living it out? Were we really being were we allowing we pray that God's word would transform these communities way out there where they're found. Question was, is God transforming me? Is God transforming us?
John Chesnut:And so we worked very, very intently on saying, we're going to bring a series of spiritual rhythms together as our Wycliffe community so that we can make sure that we're living out this transformation. We want to see it coming out there in our own lives. And then the other part I would say is that we lean really heavily into building a team and a team culture at an executive level that we wanted to, we wanted not just to be a team that worked well together, we wanted to be a team that modeled well for the rest of the organization. Because I believe that so, as the leader or leadership goes, so goes whatever it is that you're leading. And that people rarely are going to get beyond where your leaders are or your top leader.
John Chesnut:And so how are we leading well as a team in modeling that?
Joel Wayne:Part of what I hear you saying though, John, is we need to make sure that this right here, the Word of God, doesn't become only the knowledge, what did they say, the 12 inches or the 18 inches journey from here to here? Guess it depends on how big you are of a person, which distance it is, right? But no matter who you are, and I just want to encourage our people out there listening, because one of the things that what you said that kind of triggered in me is that none of us are only doing a job.
John Chesnut:That's right.
Joel Wayne:As a believer, we're doing a job in order to live out a conviction, to live out a call.
John Chesnut:That's right.
Joel Wayne:And we have to remember that. Even if you're in full time ministry, we have to be reminded of that. And then the second thing I heard really was, Man, you better know how you want to build a team, and you need to have a plan to do that because together we're going to be stronger than we could ever be alone.
John Chesnut:That's right. That's right. We worked as a team on developing kind of our we had a covenant agreement. This is how we're going to operate together and care for one another and, you know, the life balance that often doesn't happen in ministry. You know, how are those types of things?
John Chesnut:A real key one is how are we going to keep short accounts with one another? If there's something that we've if I've offended, I'm a I've gotten a lot better at apologizing because I'm pretty good at offending, you know, realize. And so as leaders, you know, getting better at apologizing, as you know, sometimes you're apologizing for and saying, I didn't even know I did that, but apparently I did, so please forgive me, you know? But those types of things of how are we modeling that for ourselves, our team, and then those that are looking to us.
Joel Wayne:So good. I could talk about this all day with you, but I want to step in to more of just the Bible translation and even AI in the role. I mean, I've had conversations. Doctor. Thomas White was on here.
Joel Wayne:He's the president of Cedarville University. Really?
John Chesnut:Yes, We
Joel Wayne:spoke about the future of AI and what that's going to look like and different things like that. You have a lot of knowledge of it. Bible translation is changing significantly over the last several years because of Bible translation. I'll call out a few things I have here and you can tell me what I get wrong. Okay, sounds good.
Joel Wayne:I think that'll be interesting because right now, when you look at AI, it says one in five people still lack access to the entire Bible. I think that's somewhat accurate. It said that roughly 1,500,000,000 people don't have the entire Bible in their language. So where are we in Bible translation? You guys have been eighty plus years.
Joel Wayne:Where are we? How is AI changing that and what's next? What's it look like for the future?
John Chesnut:Yeah, excellent questions. And so I mentioned before that in a lot of our early years that new, just a New Testament, not a full Bible, just a New Testament, might take twenty, thirty, forty years, a lifetime. What we're kind of that global average, is somewhere between four and seven years. And I think that's, we're going to continue to see that move down, and part of it is technology. And so, for example, around, these are things that are already being rolled out.
John Chesnut:So the AI space is still newer in the application of it, I would say. But one of the areas is that if there has been a New Testament that's been completed, you can use the data from a New Testament to feed an AI machine that will work then to draft an Old Testament, literally in a couple of days. Wow. You know, one of the issues with these communities we work in is that most of them don't have any language data, nothing to put in the machine. So you've got to generate a repository of data in order for the AI tool to use.
John Chesnut:So New Testament to Old Testament like that, that's pretty exciting. If there's nothing there right now, if there's no, you know, no scripture to date at all, that we're finding that we have other AI assisted tools that will come alongside, help people gather a word list, or you need to, you know, capture these words within a community that will then allow the beginning of a drafting of a New Testament. And so we're seeing it heavily in the area of drafting right now, which is kind of initial start. But that can cut off, you know, off the length of a time, months or years in the process because you're able to do this with the help of an AI tool rather than just trying to do it through our regular ongoing kind the way we've done I
Joel Wayne:gotta ask you this because I'm gonna lose it. So if you take that drafting that you're speaking about right now that AI is going to give to you, would you say that's 70% accurate and the rest is that you're trying to polish the 30%? How accurate do you think that is and how much of a runway does that really give you in a percentage?
John Chesnut:Well, so, yeah, again, a great question. What we're finding, rather than it being, you know, first one out the gate type of thing, what we're actually finding is that it's more of an iterative, it's an iterative learning process. So, you get draft number one, people begin looking at it, and then as they give feedback to it, what happens is when you say, Didn't get this word or this phrase quite right, you make the change. And then rather than having to go and say, Now where is that word or phrase throughout all of the text? The AI helps to do that.
John Chesnut:So it's a learning tool that continues and to to get better. And that's a big part of consistency across the text in which you're translating. That's where a lot of the AA tools are really giving a boost. It removes some of that human making sure that we've done everything and every place where this word or phrase appears. So what I'm hearing from the field in this is that it's not uncommon to be able get those drafts to like an 80 to 90% level, and that's really, really good, particularly early on in the process as your as the translators are growing and learning there.
Joel Wayne:So what books of the Bible? I'm just gonna start throwing I have so many questions, I I even know know a lot of this, and I still have a ton of questions. I tell you. Okay. So you look at the Word of God.
Joel Wayne:You're gonna typically start with what? Throw out the four or five books of the Bible that you would typically start with when it comes to a translation.
John Chesnut:Yeah. So if it is in a majority religion that would not be anywhere near Christianity, that's often hostile to, you know, to Christianity, often you'll start in some of the Old Testament books because the Old Testament is a bridge in Islam, Islamic for cultures, Old Testament books, they will accept those. And so often we'll start it there in serving as a bridge, for example.
Joel Wayne:Genesis, Exodus, Isaiah, Yeah,
John Chesnut:Ruth, you know, some of these
Joel Wayne:others that like
John Chesnut:will establish a common understanding that would be agreed on. When you start bringing Christ into the equation and things like that, that's where it gets more difficult. But you're establishing that relationship. And others, if they come from a, you know, a non religious, animistic background or such, often it's based on, in conversations with the community, if there's, sometimes there's a church there, a new church or whatever, what's going on in the community? And how can we begin to translate scriptures that apply to your situation there?
John Chesnut:So that's another one. One other one that we do, particularly in partnership, is that if we work on Luke early on, Luke is then the text for the Jesus film, and we have close partnership with Jesus film. So then you're getting Scripture, you know, if it's a community that is a written community, you get it written, and you're getting to see it, you know, in a movie, you know, type of video type of format as well too. It really depends on the context and what it is you're trying to see accomplished. Where the people are at and what is it that you're trying to lead them in the early parts of it?
John Chesnut:Ultimately, we want everyone to have access to all of God's word, but this is the starting point to your question there.
Joel Wayne:So then, you've got a lot of these people, 1,500,000,000, who do not have the entire word of God. That's a massive number of people. But many of those, you have a literacy issue. So, yeah, you can give them the Bible and here you go, but they don't know how to read it, even in their own heart language.
John Chesnut:That's right.
Joel Wayne:So how do you guys overcome that and what's being done in that avenue and what would you tell the people?
John Chesnut:Yeah, great questions there. So again, historically the way we work, just what you said, it was helping them develop an alphabet, helping them to learn and read and write their own language, then you start translation. And then, you know, literacy was a big part of it. Literacy is still very important to us, but today, we're able to start these are typically oral communities, may not have anything written in their language. And so now we're able to apply the same quality of translation standards, but we do it with an oral, an oral translation.
John Chesnut:So there it's all it's all audio. And and so that way, if they're not literate in their own language, sometimes they may be literate in a in a larger language, but not in their own language, then there's not the barrier of, I can't read my own language, to your point, you know, where you can hold up a Bible, but it's still a barrier to me. And so today, all around the world, the best of our knowledge, all groups that are working on Bible translation, there's over 4,400 different translations that are ongoing today, and over a thousand of those today are oral translations. So that gives you an idea. A lot of the remaining needs are gonna be started by an oral translation.
Joel Wayne:Wow. Okay. It's really fascinating to think about, but it's also the way the Word of God began. Yeah. Right.
Joel Wayne:You know, you think about the time of Jesus, it was very you know, it is oral, and people are communicating this to one another. Yeah. Really fascinating to think about, I tell you. Okay. I wanna shift gears a little bit with you.
Joel Wayne:Alright? I wanna talk about the authority of Scripture. I wanna get really specific. So when you look at the numbers, according to Barna, one of the things that we end up learning is that about one in five professing Christians actually hold a biblical worldview, meaning they affirm the Bible. Yes, we go to church, we talk about the Bible.
Joel Wayne:So they affirm it verbally, but functionally it can be a different story. They actually are more guided by culture and emotion, other things like that. I know it seems maybe a little surface, but why do you think that is? And what helps to shift that understanding, that perspective that people have?
John Chesnut:Yeah, yeah. You know, really good questions, and I'm not an expert in this area by any means, but I would say that a big part of it, and this is true if it's over there, as much as it is if it's right here in my own community, is that, first of all, is there an understanding of who God is or God's Word availability, just as there is over there? But then I think the big issue is that are we allowing God's Word to really begin to impact us, or is it just something that, particularly in our culture, we just take for granted? You know, I never had a day that I didn't have a Bible available to me. I've never, I've never ever experienced that.
John Chesnut:And so, but I think that the key is, is that are we finding ways to prayerfully, barriers that would keep people from engaging with God's Word, finding ways to build those bridges just like we do in translation, but within our own culture. And then really beginning to see that, you know, at the end of the day, Christ works. Christ is an answer to our, you know, of who we our needs, our the answers that we don't have, life that culture doesn't provide. And I really believe that that's, you know, it's being able to encourage people to begin interacting with God's Word to where it's truly transformative. As you know, it's pretty exciting to get to hear some of the statistics from Barnett and Thanes that we're seeing a real change of focus among particularly Gen Z.
John Chesnut:And just the atheist that was, you know, that kind of movement, I don't believe in God, we know, seventy seven percent today of Gen Z are open spiritually. And so you look at that and you go, They're open to a lot of things, not necessarily Christ, but how do we engage them and say, Here really is the answer, and doing what you guys are doing, bringing it to life in their day in, day out reality.
Joel Wayne:Yeah. I'm gonna go back to one of the things that you spoke about with leadership earlier. It's moving it from here. So in America, we have taught a knowledge of scripture rather than a life that has been transformed by Christ, by the word of God. That's right.
Joel Wayne:And it hasn't made that journey. And as a result of that, we've experienced a lot of difficulty and trials. We're stepping away from it because we're so in love with self, we feel like we need a greater love. We're so in love with what we already have, and that's what wealth does. That's what excelling in these different areas does.
Joel Wayne:Creates this desire to be selfish, to be self focused rather than focus on something greater than yourself.
John Chesnut:That's right.
Joel Wayne:I mean, we could talk about this stuff a long time as well. We sure could. Don't know if you relate to any of that.
John Chesnut:Yeah, no, no, very much so. And I think it comes back to what I was you know, mentioning earlier, that question of how is God transforming me? And even to our neighbors and such, how are we working to see that God's word, God's word is transformative. Whether it's all the way out there, never heard it before, you know, about it, first time scripture, or to those that grew up with Bibles in their home, and it's never gotten in here and in here. So just continuing to gauge and live that out.
Joel Wayne:Yeah. Be in awe of scripture. Be
John Chesnut:in awe
Joel Wayne:of the word of God and what he's done. Give us a passage or two that has just really shaped your own personal life.
John Chesnut:Yeah, so there are several, but I would say that, particularly from a leadership vision kind of mission, there's a passage, you know, often in scripture, in the Gospels in particular, we learn about who Christ is when he's encountering those that disagree with him or, you know, often in interactions with the Pharisees. One that I love is found in John five. It's 17 and kind of following there. But Christ is being challenged again on who He is. And He says in response, John five nineteen said, So Jesus explained, I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself.
John Chesnut:He does only what he sees the Father doing. Whatever the Father does, the Son also does. And what I love about that is that if God, if Christ, who is God in human form, if Christ could only do what he saw his father doing, how much more so is that true for us today?
Joel Wayne:Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. That's a Oh, good
John Chesnut:it is. It's part of my prayer and challenge to our teams is, God, give us eyes to see where you at work, and I don't need to dream big visions and dreams. I just need to see, Lord, give us, let us see where you're at work, and then how do we join you in that work? And that's what I think Christ modeled. And so that's something we talk a lot about from a leadership perspective, is that I don't need to dream up good plans for God.
John Chesnut:He's already got that part kind And of what I need to do is to say, Lord, how do I again, give me eyes to see what you give us eyes to see what you're doing so that we can join you in that work.
Joel Wayne:And that's right. So John chapter four, you've got the healing of the woman at the or not the healing, but you've got the woman at the well. Right. Right. The Samaritan woman.
Joel Wayne:And then in John five, he's healing the blind man at the Pool Of Bethesda. Yes. Everybody starts freaking out. He says, Hey, do you want to be made well? And he says, Yeah, I guess so.
Joel Wayne:He's like, Well, get up and walk. Take up your mat. Pick it up. Let's go. And that's in response.
Joel Wayne:And when I think of it like that, I love the way you communicated it because it's like, don't you want the same transformation? Right.
John Chesnut:Right. Right?
Joel Wayne:Yep. Don't you know I'm just reflecting what the father does? Yeah. Don't you know that I can do the same for you?
John Chesnut:That's right. Yeah. Man. Nope, that is. One other one that I would say that's a personal one that I just this one's become much more personal, just probably in the last couple years.
John Chesnut:It's also in John 14, so a couple chapters ahead there. Fourteen twenty seven, this is NLT. And I love the way it is captured here. It says, I'm leaving you with a gift, peace of mind and heart. And the peace I give is a gift the world cannot give, so don't be troubled or afraid.
John Chesnut:And when you think about, when you look at our world today, and you look at just what's happening, whether it's in our culture or somewhere over there, there is no peace outside of Christ. There's no one else that can We offer can't pay enough for it. We can't do enough in order to gain peace. That's only a gift that Christ And can you think about, wow, busting through all of the stuff of life, Here's, here's a heavenly Father through his Son that's giving us that opportunity to say, I can give you peace in your heart and mind. And wow.
John Chesnut:I mean, that just there's nothing else that can do that other than Him. That's the only truth
Joel Wayne:there. Let's go Hebrew. Shalom. Shalom.
John Chesnut:Exactly. Absolutely.
Joel Wayne:Absolutely. Peace be with you. Yeah. That's awesome. Okay, so you gotta tell me this.
Joel Wayne:So after those passages, I feel like you got a couple of people who love the word of God here, we could probably preach for a few hours. But I look at it and I say, for the leader out there, and they're trying so hard, would you give them a word right now, a challenge, that you would have for those leaders today.
John Chesnut:Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that has been incredibly comforting to me, and I would say that this is, you know, as leaders, we all have things that surprise us. We have things, didn't see that coming. And sometimes those are, those are small surprises, sometimes those are, wow, this could be devastating.
John Chesnut:And, you know, for me, when I get surprised, I come back to the fact that while I was surprised, God is not surprised. There's nothing that surprises him in his sovereignty. And so therefore, while this may have caught me off guard, God already has this figured out, and so I need to rest in that. And I, that has helped me leaning in on who God is and his sovereignty in a day where, you know, the idea of two, three, four year type of plans laying out there, we can make our plans, but things change so quickly. So much of this as leaders is you're trying to sense where is God leading and how do we lead in this next segment of the journey until you get to the next bend in the road.
John Chesnut:And for me, that's been incredibly helpful in just calming the fact that, you know, that God's got this. There are two prayers that I regularly pray. One, Lord, is one, give me wisdom that can only come from you. And the second one is, Lord, don't let me screw this up. Know, those are kind of the two polar opposites.
John Chesnut:Wisdom, Lord, and man, don't let me crash and burn my own reconnaissance there. So, anyway, that's just leaning into God's truth as leaders day in and day out, as we then have to turn and lead others in a world that's growing more and more uncertain all the time.
Joel Wayne:Yeah. Well, one of the things, again, I love that you're saying right now, I think it gives us We do. We gain a tremendous amount of confidence if we trust in God.
John Chesnut:That's
Joel Wayne:right. You're speaking about that trust that we can have in Him. If you really do trust that He can use all things, you're even willing to mess it up. It really doesn't matter because your goal isn't to get it right. You can't get it right anyway.
Joel Wayne:Goal, your job is to be faithful to the call that God's put in front of you, you're going to move forward with it. Absolutely. I'm confident that you've got some people who probably have even more questions. How would you tell the normal person who's out there walking around, they're learning about the ministry that you're helping to lead and to guide, where can they go to get some more information and to connect with Wickliffe?
John Chesnut:Yeah, great question. Our easiest way is to go to our website, wickliffe.org. And we have all kinds of resources that are there. If you have other questions, we have opportunities for you to engage. And we'd love to be able to if you're not finding things there, we'd love to be able to engage you, you know, to find out more.
John Chesnut:This is an incredibly exciting time to be part of what God is doing around the world today. And that's if you're not involved somehow outside of your own community with what God is doing, my encouragement is find a way to connect. We'd love to talk to you, others that have, you know, global focus. So much of what God is doing around the world outside, His activity in the world is outside of our immediate domain. And so connect and be part of it and truly begin a deeper understanding of this incredible God that we serve.
Joel Wayne:Well, and if you're listening right now also, and you have the Word of God, it's already there in your hands, you've got access to it, use it. How sad would it be not to use something that is so beautiful that can transform your entire life? There's nothing greater. Pick it up. Go talk to other people about it.
Joel Wayne:I can tell you the ministry of Wycliffe is wonderful to work for. They have genuine heartfelt leaders who are leading this charge to take the word of God absolutely everywhere. So please reach out to him if have any questions at all. This comes and brings us to the end of this episode today. I hope it was a teaser for every one of you to think about the word of God, to think about God's Bible that he has given to us and the scripture and the truth that it represents.
Joel Wayne:I want to thank you for joining us. Our prayer is that this conversation would equip spiritual leaders like you to expand that spiritual influence, leverage your leadership, advance There the kingdom of is nothing greater, and we'll see you next time. Amen.