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I'm Brian Bashore, Professional walleye angler and owner of The Walleye Guys Guide service. I am here to reel you in with captivating stories, expert tips, and interviews with some of the biggest names in the fishing community. So, sit back, relax, and let the drag scream!
Brian Bashore (00:01)
Hey folks, thanks for tuning into this episode of real talk fishing with no limits. I'm your host Brian for short with walleye guys. And today we have the ice man himself, Mr. Joel Nelson. We're going to just wet a line and die right into it with Joel. And if y'all don't know who Joel Nelson is, you need to flip over that rock you're living under, because if you open up a fit, a magazine, if you're online, anywhere you go, Joel's there, whether he's modeling or if he's on the other side of the camera or the microphone.
He's there. He's everywhere in this outdoor hunting and fishing world. So for the do Joel, good morning, my friend. How we doing?
Joel Nelson (00:37)
Welcome, thank you for having me.
Brian Bashore (00:41)
What's going on in your neck of the woods over there? I mean, it's first of February and it kind of feels like spring.
Joel Nelson (00:47)
Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. You said Iceman and I thought, boy, most years, yeah, not so much this year. It's, it's just crazy. I, I got some good fishing in just before Christmas, uh, crept on some, some thin ice, but it was backwater stuff, you know, maybe three feet deep. No big deal if I went in. Um, but, uh, the stuff around here now it's getting soft on top. We've got a couple inches, but, um, man, no cold weather in sight, which for
January.
Oh, it feels weird. I mean, we're February now, but, uh, throughout most of the winter, we've just had such mild temperatures. I. Yeah. I've never seen a nice season like this. You probably haven't either.
Brian Bashore (01:30)
No, it's, it's short. Um, I mean, I'm not going to lie. It doesn't hurt my feelings a whole lot. I don't spend as much time in the ice as you do. Uh, but I was trying to do this year and was like, I'm gonna go out and do some more and spend some time on the river. And I, and I did just, but literally four or five days and it was great. Um, but real fast, obviously the rivers, rivers could go real quick with all that current moving, but it's 45 degrees here yesterday and it's, uh, you know, there's probably still another couple of weeks for a little bit further up north and you're over in Minnesota.
Joel Nelson (01:35)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:59)
It's a little cooler, you know, in certain parts of the country, but I don't think you're going to get, you know, all the February.
Joel Nelson (02:06)
Well, that is the silver lining, though. You're talking about open water fishing and I don't care where you are. Even in the ice belt, there's usually some rivers to fish and they're going to be opening sooner. I'm thinking about most years we've got. I mean, 16, 18 inches of ice on our southern portion of the ice belt kind of areas. If I go up north, I've got two feet or better of ice. That just isn't going to be the case this year. Like, like late ice is going to be not that late. And
spring crappie fishing and all the other stuff that I love to do. Like that's going to come earlier than ever. So that's pretty exciting to me. Just kind of thinking about those things.
Brian Bashore (02:37)
though.
It is, it is for sure. Are you going to the Lake of the Woods, a glow event in a couple of weeks?
Joel Nelson (02:51)
That's a good question. I was considering it. It might be the, uh, the main thrust of ice a lot of us get just because up
there they have it, not a lot of places do. So yeah, I, I'm trying to make that one work along with like the issue is just like, this is photo shoot season for the ice industry, right? Um, once you get into mid to late February into March.
Brian Bashore (03:00)
Right.
Yup.
Joel Nelson (03:16)
Most places get their stuff. Um, if it is from overseas, it comes over in a container. If it's local state side, they've got it ready for reps to take out samples, to sell the stores, well, those same samples. We use in photos and try and show off. And, uh, yeah, normally I'm up on Lake of the woods or Lake Winnipeg somewhere at the tail end of March, just trying to fit it all in, but I don't think that's going to happen this year. I think this year that's going to be in February, not in March, like it typically is.
Brian Bashore (03:45)
It's gonna be now so you better clear the calendar or leave it open so you can get all these done You know the work comes first and that is a work event up there It's an association great Lake outdoor writers that you and are both members of I host that out of River Bend resort Which those guys are just awesome there. It's a fun trip at our sleeper Shaxx and I'm just like are we oh, he's amazing The place foods phenomenal host just everything's
Joel Nelson (03:47)
Yeah, right? Get out there. Exactly, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah, fall is awesome.
Yep, the bike's good, the...
Brian Bashore (04:12)
just awesome
Joel Nelson (04:13)
They know what they're doing. I like, I like going up there. I've, uh, I've parked at Paul's, I've used his, uh, his place for open water and we've ice fished up there too. So yeah, I'm, I'm a big fan of river.
Brian Bashore (04:26)
Yep. They are good people. And that event is just the bites good. You just catch fish all day. Maybe there are small saugers, whatever the cases, but you just catch fish all day and there's potential. It's like the woods. I mean, something can swim through any minute that just goes, Whoa, Hey. So speaking of that, you are, so you, it's photo season. Tell us about, you know, everybody who doesn't know Joel Nelson. Like I said, if you don't, you're living underneath the rock folks, slip that sucker over. A guy is everywhere.
Joel Nelson (04:34)
is all you catch.
100%.
I'm going to go to bed.
Brian Bashore (04:54)
What is the new venture you got going on while we're doing all these photos?
Joel Nelson (04:57)
Yeah. Well, so for years, I have been in the fishing industry doing a bunch of things and ended up working with a main photographer. His name's Matt Addington. And Matt's done most of my work and the things that we do together from a media perspective for a long time. And he's really well renowned in the hunting side of the world. He just got back from a South African safari shooting for.
God knows what client, Bergara Rifles, Maven Binoculars, like big names in the industry, like he's the guy, right? And he just happens to live up the hill from me, like a rifle shot away and...
Brian Bashore (05:26)
Right.
Joel Nelson (05:33)
So Matt and I started doing some stuff together. And then we also have a mutual friend, Jesse Dolan, who does SEO and web stuff. And we thought, you know, we're already working together anyway. Why don't we start an agency of sorts, but one that's more directed towards outdoor type ventures, because we're already doing that. So now we have resonate outdoors and resonate is. Like I said, for lack of a better term, an agency, but we're small to middle
that really get it from a boutique branding perspective and looking at marketing for them, where we can help, I can help craft stories, I'm a writer. I'm an.
kind of a TV or on video personality, I can help with that side of things. I do social media as well. That's one thing that I help run. Matt does all the creative photo and video that you could ever ask for. And then Jesse builds websites, does SEO. That's really his bread and butter and making sure that any companies we work with, top ranked on Google, easily found, well represented in all digital online spaces. So we are a digital marketing firm
Brian Bashore (06:38)
Thanks for watching!
Joel Nelson (06:43)
Yeah, has catered to the fishing industry for the most part, as well as the hunting industry. So that's our gig. That's what we got
going right now.
Brian Bashore (06:53)
And it's a needed niche. I mean, there's a few out there trying to do, but like you got Matt's talent is second to none. I mean, the guy's got skills. And if y'all, you all have read Joel's stuff, whether you know it or not, um, Joel's a phenomenal writer. Uh, when I was with the magazine did a bunch, he just does a bunch. It's good. A lot of the St. Croix stuff you read, a lot of the pressure leases and things like that. I mean, Josh is over there now writing a lot of that, but it's just, you got some of the best in the business, not working under one name and one roof. So.
Check them out at resident. They find it resonate outdoors.com or.
Joel Nelson (07:26)
Reso yeah, and any of the social channels too at Resonate Outdoors.
Brian Bashore (07:34)
Of course, you're digital. You've got to be on the social channels. It never fails though, all the digital agencies, the social channels are usually, they're not very active because they don't have a lot of it because you're too busy running everybody else's stuff. You just don't get around to it.
Joel Nelson (07:36)
Hehe
Right. That's a fact. Yeah, that's the shoemaker's kids don't have shoes kind of routine, right?
Brian Bashore (07:53)
Yep. That's just, that's how that works. You've been in the industry for a long time doing just that media, creating content, what type of, uh, and I, you're on that, you know, the other side of it as the agency, what are you seeing as maybe in trends kind of moving forward? Maybe with this and I don't know, maybe you've had to work with some influencers or not, but you've been a pro staff manager for companies as well and managing that. What do you see kind of trends in the industry and the media? And then
I got a few more questions.
Joel Nelson (08:22)
Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, I work with a number of different brands and no two brands are alike. Their needs, their wants, whether they want to work with influencers, people like me that are kind of influencers, but also have been around for a while and kind of have a name or a following. All of these brands though are repeatedly, as you're talking about trends, moving towards a lot more video.
and everybody wants video, and they want it cheap. And the hard part is, is we wanna always maintain quality. Like, you know the deal, Brian, I'm preaching to the choir here, like you're burning up inside this, I'm not gonna buy these things. But what we've been providing to a lot more clients, rather than just a hard drive full of photos, or here you go, here's the videos.
Brian Bashore (08:58)
Of course.
Yep, yep.
Joel Nelson (09:16)
We're doing a lot more creative captioning for them, getting them ready, almost social ready, developing hashtag strategies based on SEO and those kinds of things. But another main trend as it comes to videos, the vertical format, you know, everybody wants them for reels and for TikTok and things like that. So short, 10 second to 30 second, certainly less than one minute, reels in a vertical format. I've got a lot of brands that want...
Brian Bashore (09:35)
Yeah.
Joel Nelson (09:45)
As much of that as I can provide in at times, not much else. So it really tells you, you know, back when we started, they wanted us to go to sports shows, right? They wanted us to stand in a booth, hawk a package and say, this is the best jig and the best colors. I use it for X, Y, Z. And these days they want you and I to do some of the same stuff. They just want us to do it in a vertical format video for, you know, Instagram and Tik Tok.
Brian Bashore (09:59)
Right.
All right, have you been to any shows this season yet?
Joel Nelson (10:18)
I have the St. Paul Ice Show is always the biggest and baddest one. I went to a couple other ones and then a Cabela's Ice Classic as well. So yeah, all that's kind of passed. Now we're already looking forward to the Open Water shows.
Brian Bashore (10:36)
Is there were the crowds very good though? Did you know was it down? I heard a few shows were like, this doesn't seem like they used to be.
Joel Nelson (10:42)
Yeah, if 100% if I'm being honest, I, you know, I don't know that after COVID, people view shows in the same light they used to. And even before that, at times attendance was waning. What I will say about shows is from a consumer standpoint, they continue to be one of the best places to get a good price on something. I don't think that that's great for the industry at times. It's bloodletting. I mean, I, I see the prices that these people are haggling for and I'm like,
Brian Bashore (11:10)
Right.
Joel Nelson (11:12)
I work for these guys, I don't get it that cheap. I don't know how they're selling it at retail for that cheap in the show environment. So like it, I don't know that it's a good thing for us, but if you're a consumer and you want to deal on something, those shows are unbelievable.
Brian Bashore (11:17)
Yeah, right.
Yeah, it may not be the number of people sometimes, but if they're the right people showing up, that's all that, you know, matters in a sense. But if you're giving the milk away for free or next to it, then not good on the industry side of things.
Joel Nelson (11:37)
Right, right.
Yeah. And some of them have to fail, I think. Some of those shows have to go away. I mean, I don't think that every small Tom, Dick and Harry retailer can have their own show, or every regional small podunk chunk of the ice belt can have their regional show. It might just reduce itself to a handful of them with the St. Paul Ice Show kind of being the crown jewel of them all. And that might shrink in size too. We'll have to see. But
You can't have a show when there aren't as many people. This is kind of the reality of it.
Brian Bashore (12:15)
No, I mean, the cost of putting them on is, is not getting cheaper along with everything else. Um, you know, and then everybody's kind of hit being hit in different directions and you know, can they want to go to the show and they can go find everything digitally, find it online, watch the video, watch Joel's YouTube channel, go over here, go to your channel, my channel, anybody's and get a lot of the same information and the product reviews and, and just be like, I'm good. I've made my decision before I go there. Now something to be said with putting that.
Joel Nelson (12:19)
No doubt. Right.
Yeah.
Yeah, right.
Brian Bashore (12:44)
rod or that reel in your hand before you buy it. But that's where certain you and I and others come into play. These influencers that you may have to work with, are they trustworthy people? This is what they recommend? Are they just sellouts? Are they jumping on this product because there's compensation from the company or do they actually believe in it and back it?
Joel Nelson (12:47)
Right.
Yes.
rate.
Brian Bashore (13:07)
That's something we probably have to deal with plenty in this industry and throughout what a year. So let's, what'd you take on the influencer stuff? I mean, you, you've been a pro staff manager. You see exactly what I'm talking about. You're the real deal. Like thank God the real deal. There's plenty of people out there that, that are, and they've been with these brands. But I mean, I see some of it in a lot of times I'm like, that's not, nah, that's, that's
Joel Nelson (13:11)
Hehehehe
Yeah!
Yeah. 100%. Yeah.
Brian Bashore (13:33)
not legit.
Joel Nelson (13:34)
Yeah, I mean, you and I think are pretty aligned in how we feel about some of the things that are going on in our industry. And when it comes to influencers, the one thing I keep hearing, and I heard it from my bosses when I was a pro staff manager for different brands, and then I'm hearing it now is that they want to get younger. They want to attract the next generation. And they're looking to YouTube type influencers to do that. And I tell you what, my kids are huge consumers.
of YouTube online content when it comes to fishing guys. I mean, they are all over it. And I watch it too. And so it's really interesting, but there is a distinction I think, as these companies want more and more of this youth and they want more and more of these influencers, they're not always getting experience or let's say reliability or, you know, that same kind of reputation that goes along with
Brian Bashore (14:07)
Yup.
Joel Nelson (14:33)
some of the folks that have been around and doing it for a while. So you see mistakes. Um, you see things that, you know, as, as an angler, you'd be like, wait a second, I don't know that makes a lot of sense, but a lot of times they're not doing it for education. They're doing it for, for loves and likes, right? Share it shares and, uh, making the algorithm go spike and, and you're like, well, entertainment is one thing. I think we all do it to entertain.
Brian Bashore (14:52)
Yep. Clicks.
Joel Nelson (14:59)
But I think there has to be, at least in my opinion, a deeper commitment to educate and inform, to make you better, to share what you've learned. Because if you're just doing it for entertainment, I think it's a limited growth strategy over the long haul. I think it's a short-term home run, because it's cool and it's trendy and it's neat now, but where do you go from there if you don't have credibility, if you don't have that reputation? And
Brian Bashore (15:00)
All right.
Joel Nelson (15:28)
so...
Brian Bashore (15:28)
Yeah.
Joel Nelson (15:28)
I'm much more concerned with my reputation and staying true to form and always trying to provide value to somebody watching what I'm putting on rather than just trying to make, make them, you know, smile for a short time. Right. Yeah. That's, that's at least my strategy. That's how I.
Brian Bashore (15:44)
All right. And that's the difference. It's the perfect one. That's the difference between a guy like yourself who's been in the around for 10 plus years, you know, versus those one and two years, they're in and out type thing because they, this, none of this success on this side of it happens overnight. It is a long, long game, uh, evolving. Right. Where you got to continue to find new avenues of ways, like a podcast, a YouTube, you know, the social, the newsletters, whatever
Joel Nelson (16:02)
Oh yeah. Yup.
Brian Bashore (16:12)
it may be new.
Joel Nelson (16:12)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (16:13)
avenues of approach in a sense to get your message to the potential customers and clients. And, and, and ultimately as a pro staffer or a pro on any level, working with your, your sponsors and partners is you're an extended team at the Salesforce.
Joel Nelson (16:31)
You're there to provide help on sales. Yeah, that's what you're there for is to help provide sales. Right, 100%. I tell you what, I see a lot of brands focus heavily on that entertainment factor. And I think that it's interesting because we all want to see the brands that we know and love succeed, because we believe them. And if you work for a company, like the companies I represent and you represent, there's stuff that we believe in. It's not a...
Brian Bashore (16:32)
I think that's what people kind of tend to forget sometimes.
That's it. Nothing happens.
Joel Nelson (17:02)
It's not something that, hey, I think I can make a few bucks by repping Joe's product over there and I'll go around. That doesn't work. Um, that that's the Billy blanks style. Uh, you're proselytizing, you're just trying to sell whatever, somebody will put it in your hand and you'll sell it. That, that just doesn't work in the long haul for, uh, for representation and being a member of the industry. Like we have.
Brian Bashore (17:30)
And it's a, it could be a little tougher for, uh, we're not young guys anymore. And, uh, you and I aren't out there flaunting our stuff in our bikini. So we're not growing it, you know, organically that way either. We don't, we don't really have that working for us. So you got, you got to take the.
Joel Nelson (17:38)
Yeah.
Right. No, no. I- my-
100%. My following is not what some followings are in terms of numbers, but I'll always argue quality over quantity when it comes to the kinds of folks that, yeah, that we're trying to help out and inform and educate. I feel like a lot of the folks that follow me or my writing or what I do are anglers.
pretty much like myself, they've got a family. They're trying to catch what they can on limited time that they have, make good on vacations. And
some of them are even more serious than that. And they're looking to take the next step, maybe to do well on the tournament side of things, maybe to work in the industry. So yeah, those are the kinds of folks that I'm trying to please and focus on.
Brian Bashore (18:37)
I hear you. I wrote that down in exact words, quality over quantity. And you mentioned that with resonate outdoors is it's you, there's so much pride in the work you do, but of course everybody wants it for cheap as possible because, Hey, I can just do this with my cell phone. No. Yeah, you can, but there's a whole post-production phase that happens. And then there's a whole certain way to put it out there where your SEO guy comes in or you on social and having writing, right. Verbiage that goes in a place that makes that.
Joel Nelson (18:49)
Right. Yeah. Sure.
Oh, yeah.
Yep. Mm-hmm. Oh. Okay.
Brian Bashore (19:06)
Go from those 10 likes to a thousand likes. There's a difference from some 18 year old or a high school kid catching his bass and doing it, you know, now granted the stupidest, weirdest, wildest things go viral and uncut, unedited bra, which is great, but those don't happen every day.
Joel Nelson (19:09)
Right. Yes.
Yeah.
No, and I, you know, for years, back in the day, I was part of a TV show called In-Depth Outdoors, and we filmed, I think I was probably involved for seven, eight seasons, and we chased all over the place after Big Fish and Crazy Bites. And one thing had to be crazier than the next, just to be able to kind of get that same level of passion and interest from people. And I just found that to eventually.
feel like, hey, we kind of been there, we've done that. What's next? So I got to ride a unicycle out onto the ice and balance four balls on my hands and nose. All right, after a while you start feeling like a trick pony or something like that. And the fishing and the block and tackle part of it is the part that still interests me. I think if you go to far away destinations
Brian Bashore (20:05)
I'd love to see it.
Joel Nelson (20:23)
and...
You constantly travel to, you know, fly in Canadian trips or parts of Alaska, or only the best bites here and there. I do that. I like that. I've got nothing against that, but I think a lot of people are just interested in, how can I catch some more basin crappies on my local lake? You know, where can I look for some walleyes off of breaks on the river that's near home? That's the kind of stuff that I think is as valuable as anything.
Brian Bashore (20:52)
Oh, for sure. Where can I go that I don't need $140,000 boat to get me there? Right.
Joel Nelson (20:57)
Right? 100%.
Brian Bashore (20:59)
I mean, it's, it's getting insane. I got a dog that needs to get out of the office here for a second.
Joel Nelson (21:01)
Yeah, it really is. You know, you say that I work with.
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (21:12)
He's whining. Need it out.
Joel Nelson (21:16)
I, uh, I worked the boat show here, the Minneapolis boat show, and there was not a lot of fishing boats sold it. There was a lot of pontoons and deck boats and things like that. But, um, yeah, I mean, fishing boats have gotten really expensive and for a lot of folks, it's a little bit of a challenge to be able to afford, uh, the kinds of crafts that are out there. Now that said, you know, you look at the boat that you and I owned in the 90s or.
the year 2000 or even 2010, it's nowhere near the technological marvel of the rigs we have now. But the prices, the prices were more reflective of what an average honest salary could afford. And so that's, I don't know, I don't know where this is going. I just know that it's quickly turning into a rich man's game.
Brian Bashore (21:52)
Right.
Right.
Joel Nelson (22:08)
I don't know.
Brian Bashore (22:11)
Yeah. And the boat itself hasn't changed a whole lot when you talk about the boat, you know, and yeah, motors. Yeah. The whole, the whole is the same. There's else. Yeah.
Joel Nelson (22:14)
The boat itself agreed. The hull, yup. It's the motors, it's the electronics.
It gets, it's gotten crazy and you know, you, you spec a boat and then all of a sudden you add all these things to it and you're like, Oh my God, that's a whole nother price into its own. You know.
Brian Bashore (22:26)
and
Yeah, I just added $20,000 or I'm going to throw three or $4,000 worth of lithium batteries in it. And you know, do I, do I need the 300 horse or the 400, or can I get by with the 250 and I mean, what, what's, I get people just need to sit back and I was, what is, what am I using this for? Where am I going? What kind of body of water am I? You know, it's one thing if you're a tournament guy, it's another, if I'm just fishing in the lakes, you know, I don't, I don't, you just don't need that. Maybe you want it. And if you can afford it more power to you, let's, let's move some of them boats, but interest rates are not where they were.
Joel Nelson (22:46)
Yes.
Yes.
Right.
Brian Bashore (23:06)
during the big COVID boom and inventory is more than caught up. And yeah, I think we're going to see a, and hopefully see a pretty good market correction coming soon.
Joel Nelson (23:11)
Yeah.
Right. Yeah. And I tell you, I'm, I'm with my kids fishing like they have been, especially small rivers nearby. That's just been a lot of fun. They wade fish constantly. You hop in a canoe, ride down to some island, park it and just wade fish around for smallies and walleyes. Um, that's, that's still as enjoyable as going on, you know.
rocking 60 miles an hour across the other end of the lake and jigging up some walleyes and some hump. I tell you what, I enjoy it all, but there is something to be said for dumbing it down, being a little more simplistic, enjoying some local stuff. I've been doing more of that lately.
Brian Bashore (23:58)
Yeah, keep it simple, right? The old kiss theory. I so much do that. And I mean, I got the wife fly fishing. We go fly fishing a couple of times a year, and it's great because I throw waders and attack one little tackle box that big and the side of my case. That's it. That's it. I can go anywhere. You know, we pull over on the side of the road in Colorado.
Joel Nelson (24:00)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure.
Yes. Right. Wonderful. Yeah. How refreshing compared to.
Yep. How refreshing compared to some of the stuff we have to pack for. I mean, your tournaments, it's got to be crazy. The amount of gear you stash into a truck in boat. I mean, just to be prepared, right?
Brian Bashore (24:30)
Yeah.
Oh yeah, I mean, heaven forbid it's the one thing you don't bring is the one thing that you needed, you know, or so you didn't win it, but that's what the guy was, was using that one. And you're like, ah, man, those are all hanging in my garage on the shelf and the brand new package that I didn't bring. So yeah, you pull up most tournament guys, boats or trucks, you know, and, and you're like, this is a whole tackle store in here. Like, I never know. You know, you have a pretty good idea of what's going to work, where, what time of year, but now with the, just the flux of new products and.
Joel Nelson (24:43)
Oh.
Oh, just a...
Brian Bashore (25:04)
forward-facing sonar and forward-facing sonar baits. You're just like, well, I guys, I think are worse than bass guys notorious tackle junkies. Um, part of that's cause you know, trolling and the huge variety of crank baits that are out there. Better have them all better have those $12, $15 custom color painted one. So
Joel Nelson (25:06)
Yeah. Yep.
That's true. Yeah.
Oh yeah, colors are crazy because like on those areas that are heavily fished, especially the real clear water areas, like it seems like color makes more of a difference than ever before for just a couple extra bites or big bites. And for you guys trying to cash checks, that's the way it's got to work, right? I mean, you can't ignore it.
Brian Bashore (25:42)
Yeah, I'm not a huge custom color guy. I'm not like natural, even in dirty water. But like you said, when it's pressured and clean and they're seeing everything out there, you throw the most goddiest, ugly off the wall thing out there. You're like, huh, I guess they haven't seen that before. So they're, it's, it's an intrigue. They're interested. So they're going to check it out. You know, they
Joel Nelson (26:02)
Right.
Brian Bashore (26:04)
only do it once.
You know, talk about all these electronics and stuff. Are you running any of the live imaging on your ice or in your boat?
Joel Nelson (26:16)
Yep, I've got a Garmin unit that I run for Ford Facing, and I interchange the same unit between the boat and out on the ice. And yeah, it's been interesting. I've owned one now for, I think, darn near since the inception. I had the original Panoptix and then went on to the true live type format. So probably four or five years now I've played with it.
It's interesting to me, I use it for a lot of different things, but for me, it's about learning and educating myself on the species that I'm after. And it's been fascinating for that. I mean, like you just pick up and learn things that you never would have had a clue about before. It's wild. So I can, I can name an example.
Brian Bashore (27:08)
It is. It's educating the hell out of all of us.
Joel Nelson (27:11)
Right. I was out on a small farm pond last year and I was using a rattle bait, a little, a little Northland Rippin' Chad and works great for bass in these farm ponds. But I was actually drawing schools of bluegills from as far as like 75 feet away. Which I would have never believed I could draw off, especially bluegills from that far away. But you know, you're over there ripping it and you start to see one fish.
Brian Bashore (27:31)
teeth.
Joel Nelson (27:39)
kind of quasi-respond from the far edge, and then eventually a few more follow, and a few more follow, and a few more follow. And I was learning that if I kept ripping it as they approached too closely, I would spook them off. Like they were interested in the sound, but then they saw what it was, and they didn't really want it, it was too much. And I would attract bass, which were kind of picking these bluegills off. So I'm like, okay. So then I learned like when they were 20, 30 feet away,
They were already on their way. I pulled that thing out and I dropped a little tungsten and I'm catching bluegills. And I thought, there's no way, there's no other way you would have learned to do that or known that you were drawing fish from that far away without that technology. So pretty fascinating stuff.
Brian Bashore (28:24)
Yeah, you certainly wouldn't have seen it. And, uh, that's, I mean, a lot of us guys do that same little trick. I was just doing it on the river there a day where the, the bites dead. It just, you know, it's middle afternoon, a little down, drop down a ripping shed. Rip the hell out of it. Make a bunch of noise, pull it out and immediately just the bottom, you know, the wall, I just, they lifted up, came off the bottom, like, Oh, there are fish there and then followed her down, drop, you know, just a jig of minnow down there real quick and start catching them. Now we got onto white bass on the river there a day, which
Joel Nelson (28:42)
Thanks for watching!
Brian Bashore (28:54)
They weren't hitting that, but Amanda, you ripped it twice and you know, they were pretty big or about two pound white bass, so they weren't too scared of it, but they came flying in and were like, Hey, and then as soon as you dropped a spoon, it didn't matter what you dropped down, bam, you know, they were on it. And I don't fear for cop big white bass through the ice, but that was different. That
Joel Nelson (29:00)
Sure.
Brian Bashore (29:12)
was kind of fun.
Joel Nelson (29:12)
That is fun. Those things, open water, I love chasing them around open water. On Pep and I fish them a lot where you'll see seagulls and other, you know, they're blowing up shad out in the center of the basin, right? They're not really relating to anything. You just go out there and throw a safety pin spinner or any small jigging plastic in that school and you're going to get just rocked. And through the ice though, it sounds really interesting because, um, they fight like crazy in open water. I'm sure through an ice hole, it's pretty wild.
Brian Bashore (29:42)
Yeah, it is, uh, it's just, you know, obviously not like the open water, but it is good and we have a little video up, uh, threw that up and think I went out yesterday and then, uh, or a couple of nights ago and then yesterday, the, that spot on the lake was, was loaded with people and I saw pictures last night of them, they all had a bunch six, seven, eight, nice big white bass laying on the, on the ice. And I was like, awesome. You found them, you know, there's, there's plenty of them there, but I think that's the last day for that too. Cause the ice has gotten to crap since. And, and I wouldn't even been on it yesterday. So, but.
Joel Nelson (29:59)
I'm sorry.
Cheers.
Ugh.
Brian Bashore (30:11)
What uh, so the forward face solder you got the garment stuff around the mega live it is it is I think You know along with everybody uses it responsibly. I don't foresee it being a huge problem, but obviously tournaments and anglers are against it For it, you know, they're all over the map. You think it's going to go anywhere? I mean, I think it just it's here to stay
Joel Nelson (30:15)
Yeah.
It's here to stay. It's interesting. I was at an event with some of the biggest names in the fishing industry, guys that you and I know and love, and I don't wanna name their names because they shared some pretty interesting thoughts on forward-facing sonar, but these would be your heroes and mine, the biggest of the big in the industry. And they love it and hate it. And I think a lot of us feel that way. They hate the fact that
A lot of anglers now don't need to know as much to be successful. And it's like a lack of dedication thing. They can take this shortcut cheat code way to find fish without having to know a damn thing about them. Um, I don't need to know their seasonal patterns, what spawning conditions they prefer, what water temps I'm going to find them where they just run around with this thing on full blast and search mode, looking till they find, pitching till they catch.
And then boom, they're instantly successful. Um, and I think it's to this idea for me anyway, um, not much ventured, not much gained, like I think it's, it makes the experience a little empty in some respects. And I think that's also why a lot of people have no problem keeping as many fish now as they do when they've got forward facing and some people are very responsible with it, but others.
You know, I think of it from the DNR perspective, like in our state, I have a buddy who's a fisheries manager and he tells me he's like, you know, all of our fish limits are based on people not being successful. It was never this deal where you were going out to the lake and 90% of us were going to be successful. It was more the other way around. 10 or 20% were going to be successful. And, and, and fisheries limits were set. Those numbers are set based on that idea. Now, when.
The majority of anglers go out and are more successful than they ever have been before. I don't know what the numbers are. No one does. It's different for everybody, water and species. But I think it's fair to say that with this technology, you have the potential to be more successful. Do the fish limits even apply anymore? You know, like that's just, that's something they're wrestling with and trying to preserve quality fishing because I don't care what I'm catching them on as much.
as long as I can go out and still experience catching. You know, I don't want it to be the situation where fish are so pressured or there's so few of them that fishing is harder and harder to do it. I think that scares away people from the sport long term. I think short term, it's great right now. I think long term, it scares people away.
Just my thoughts.
Brian Bashore (33:19)
I couldn't agree more. Nope. I couldn't agree more. And it's, I mean, it's like you said, it's a video game. So we're getting a younger, new generation involved in it. It is cool watching them on the screen and doing it. You still got to catch them, you know, but people didn't grow up like you and I and many others having to learn, read the in Fisherman magazines, get up Saturday morning to watch fishing shows, not cartoons and you know, to understand those concepts of
Joel Nelson (33:29)
Sure. It is.
Right.
Right.
Brian Bashore (33:46)
When they spawn, where they spawn, what's the movement rivers versus lakes versus great lakes, you know, all this stuff. So we can maybe eliminate a little bit by running to a spot where we know they're going to be because that's where they should be versus having to spend a whole ton of time driving around. Um, but the learning curve for new anglers coming up days, which you and I are, are part of this, I don't know, you know, if it's a problem, it's getting them out there is the educational path they have to learn this stuff with things like this. And the YouTube.
Joel Nelson (34:01)
Oh my god.
Brian Bashore (34:16)
With the technology, I mean, they can become tournament level pros super fast. I mean college bass fishing, you know, and all these clubs. I mean, guys are, you know, most guys have fished 20, 30 years for their even entered a tournament. And that's, you know, starting that as a little child, you know, now they're 14, 15 years old and they're like, sign me up, you know, for the biggest event, I think I can compete. And sometimes they can.
Joel Nelson (34:33)
Right?
I got the stuff. Yeah. Sometimes I can. I have found, too, that I'm not as good at taking my face away from that screen when I need to. Sometimes I just get so enveloped in what I'm looking at that the fun of seeing fish react to your bait becomes more of the game than the fishing part of it. And I'm like, I'm a
Brian Bashore (34:45)
So it's...
Joel Nelson (35:05)
fisherman. I'm an angler. I'm not a.
Brian Bashore (35:05)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Nelson (35:08)
I'm not a video game purveyor chasing that dopamine high that I get when I see a fish react to my bait in a positive way, so like.
Brian Bashore (35:11)
Yeah.
Joel Nelson (35:19)
Yeah, it's hard for me. It's, maybe we're just too old. I don't know what it is.
Brian Bashore (35:25)
I don't, I don't, I don't, I use it to find them and to go, that's not a rock. It, it, it swam it moved. It's not a log. And then I throw at it and I can't, you know, the hummingbird one's great, but it's got a little ways to go and I just can't see my, my jig dropped 50 feet out there or not, but I can see the fish. And that's to me, I don't, I don't need to see it, chase it, follow it, bite it. I mean, I'd like to be able to see it to react to it, but if I can, I know it's there, whether it's the right species, the size, whatever the cases, but then I'm going to make that cast and then I'm, I'm already moved on.
Joel Nelson (35:27)
Yes.
Brian Bashore (35:54)
I'm panning and I'm looking for the next, the next cast. Cause a lot of times you only get one shot at these fish and then they, they're out of there.
Joel Nelson (36:00)
For sure. I think the other interesting thing, you know, we're definitely seeing, at least in some of the pressure bodies of water that I fish, primarily for panfish, but even walleyes too. They sure spook into it. Like they are negatively responding to the sound that beam creates. And I've got one lake here locally. I'll just tell you right now. If I shine a beam at a school of crappies, they immediately start to disperse. I mean, not like they don't like
turn outside of their skin to swim away, but they immediately start to dissipate. You just watch them fade away in, I mean, in seconds. And so like this idea of like drilling on top of them in the ice or even pitching to them while you're focusing that beam on them, like that's becoming less and less of a thing. And I heard reports of that last summer on leech, Winnie, some of the other big walleye waters that buddies of mine fish. So yeah, I...
Brian Bashore (36:32)
Right.
Joel Nelson (36:55)
I don't think they like that sound, that noise. I think there's a lot of people that have confirmed that, right?
Brian Bashore (37:02)
Yeah, I'm hearing the same thing up on to Kakawea that they're becoming pretty in tune with it real fast. So like anything it's going to evolve and these things come up and then they, you know, they fade away or we had to figure out how to manipulate the thing. Like, you know, you hit them with that and then you're out of there, right? You don't need to hold it on them and watch the whole thing. And, but the, you know, you got the Garmin, you got the birds, you got the Larrance, the active target, the Live Scopes, the Mega Live. I mean, they're all putting out a little bit of a different noise and different size cone. And I mean, to each is their own.
Joel Nelson (37:10)
Yes.
Right.
Yes.
Brian Bashore (37:31)
So.
We'll see, we'll see where that goes and how it works. And, but it is a contest in the tournament world. If you don't have it and you're not playing that game, you're not in the game. So that's just, it's just the way it is.
Joel Nelson (37:42)
No, yeah, no doubt. I even amongst guides, it is, even amongst guides, you know, that I know, and they have to run it, you know. I mean, if they're trying to find fish for clients on a reliable basis, and it's just kind of what they need to have. It's part of their kit.
Brian Bashore (38:04)
Now the tool in the toolbox. So if you could afford it and get on it, if you already have the electronics in your boat, then you're talking, you know, like a $1,500 dollar add-on. Now, if you're switching brands or moving all up, then you're, you know, three grand or so. Um, but if you fish for a living or, or if you can afford it, you're going to enjoy it. I mean, it's cool, but I interviewed Mike McClellan, Cleveland a couple of years ago, uh, for a press release, I went for Spurrow or somebody or the kids, when we talked about it and, uh, and I just
said,
You know, good and bad is it sucks you in. And now you're seeing things you didn't know were there before. But he said, you know, same thing that I was always thinking is that you, you're spending so much time on that one fish where you would have made two or three casts before it moved on, but now you're throwing five different baits at it, trying to get it. And the reality is it's just not going to bite, you know, sometimes they're just, you're just, they're just not going to go there in that mood. And he's like, I always spend 15, 20 minutes, which normally would have been a minute because then I wasted all that time.
Joel Nelson (38:40)
Yes.
Right?
Right, yeah, yep.
I do that. I'm totally guilty of that. I'm totally guilty of that. And something I'm trying to break myself of because, yeah, sometimes it's just too juicy. They're in the right spot where you expected them to be, doing the right thing, looking like everything's right and it's wrong. And you're trying to force the situation. It just isn't gonna work. Walk away, drive away.
Brian Bashore (39:04)
So you gotta learn when to hold them and fold them.
Right.
You know, yep. Yeah. We're it's, it's hard not to, when you see it. And if it does react, you know, maybe just a little bit, you're like, all right. You're saying there's a chance. I just got a different color, different, you know, plastic, different, whatever. Slow down, speed it up. What is it? You know, it's a, but I like you and I've seen this a lot with guys that on tournament trail with their, and they're catching them and they're, and they're picking my butt because they're good at it, but their face is down in that graph. And I'm just like, man, look up.
Look around you. This is beautiful. You know, you're on the Missouri river here in North Dakota, South Dakota. You're missing out. Yeah. You're missing what you're here for of what got you into this place, you know, and this is what you see around you. So take it in when you can take it in, but I mean, I get it. It's tournaments.
Joel Nelson (39:55)
Enjoy.
couldn't agree more.
Damn, what you leave, what you leave.
you end up leaving with a bad case of tech neck, not what you were looking for, maybe a little bit of refreshment, enjoyment in the outdoors.
Brian Bashore (40:23)
We should all maybe get into a chiropractor because there's going to be a pretty good business down the road for all these bad backs and necks from Ford Faces Sonar. We need to be looking at the retirement side of things, Joel, at this point. And we need to look down the road.
Joel Nelson (40:31)
What?
Right. It's interesting. You probably saw some of the hubbub about the barotrauma and how forward-facing was relating to some of that stuff on the barotrauma study in Minnesota. And it's funny to me, it's almost comical because barotrauma is not a new thing. I mean, it's been around in the scientific literature for the better part of decades and everything from fish in the Pacific Ocean to freshwater fish and panfish and walleyes and all that. And
Brian Bashore (40:55)
Right.
Joel Nelson (41:06)
It's interesting. Um, I just, that, that thing got so publicized and really, I think if people would take the time to look back on it and understand it a little bit better, it, um, it's nothing new. It's nothing crazy. I'm really confused as to why it's such a hot button issue.
Brian Bashore (41:25)
Yeah. And we've had to deal with plenty of that, um, this fall and even right now, fishing the river, cause these fish, the wall are on these deep poles, you know, 35 to 40 something feet deep. That's about as deep as it gets where I'm at Lewis and Clark, you know, but I noticed a lot in the late fall and you're catching 12 and 13, 14 and saugers and they're floating on the surface and the Eagles are flying in and we're feeding the Eagles real good, but I, you know, as I watched guys fishing, I noticed they were going slow.
Joel Nelson (41:34)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (41:54)
You know, they were bringing them up real slow and then basically darting them back into the water. So they're getting it, you know, and you can see those on your live, go all the way down. Now, do they stay down? You know, that's what people are seeing in the video, right? Angle bus puts out like, look, they swam down, they swam down, but it's two hours, four hours, 24 hours, where's that fish? What happened then? That's what we don't know. That's where the DNR comes in doing their studies.
Joel Nelson (42:00)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, barotrauma kills fish. Right, barotrauma kills fish, it just does. And it's so funny because over the years you've seen all the crazy techniques, blowing in a crappie's mouth to push its distended stomach back in, darting them down. There's all kinds of crazy techniques. Fizzing used to be a big deal. Some people still believe in it, I think it's crazy.
Brian Bashore (42:31)
All right.
Fizzin'!
Joel Nelson (42:43)
You're sticking a needle in the side of a fish and you're not really trained as to know exactly where you're supposed to bleed that fish. You might be stabbing it in the spine or the heart or whatever, right? And then you're throwing it back and yeah, it's gone. So everything must be great. Well, I can tell you from an ice fishing perspective, I've seen all of those things tried. And then we go out to the spot the next day and we shine an underwater camera under the ice. And it looks like, you know, the ceiling's just loaded with dead crappies that we...
thought we successfully released the day before. And so you gather
those up as best you can from under the ice and you keep them and you clean them. And I just, I don't think there's a way around the fact that at depth you're going to kill fish. So you just need to respond as an angler accordingly.
Brian Bashore (43:17)
Yep.
Yeah, that's a great time to harvest. Obviously if you're going to go out plan on keeping some fish and, and if you can bring them up slow in the ice, when I'm fishing deeper, I just, I keep the drag real loose so that I keep tension, you know, and I can, you just, and just keep going. So by, without even trying, you're bringing that fish up real slow. Or even if you can pause it, now there's a good chance of losing it. If you just stop and let it swim around a little bit. I tried that the other day and lost two, probably 15, 16 inch walleyes. I'm like, whatever. I got the bite.
Joel Nelson (43:35)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brian Bashore (44:00)
I got to fight it for a little bit. It got off, or rather get off to me, bring it up and I have its air bladder. I mean, you and I, if we get out of bed and our lungs are sitting out of our mouth, it's game over. So that's it. So yeah, be responsible, keep what you, you know, plan on keeping fish when you're fishing deep. I don't, you know, a hundred percent of them aren't dying. I'm sure. And yeah, you know.
Joel Nelson (44:13)
That would be over, no doubt.
Yeah, we boom.
Brian Bashore (44:27)
It comes to all the conservation stuff and just being responsible about whatever you're doing out there. And there's times you're, there's just no way around it. You know, maybe you're in a tournament and that's just what it is. It's, but usually that's a kill, a kill tournament and there's a place for those fish to go. So, and if you don't want them, keep them. Cause no, I mean, somebody does. And that's what our GFPs or DNRs or fours do these gilded surveys and say the fisheries healthy. We anticipate of course, you know, you're going to, you're going to kill some here and there.
Joel Nelson (44:34)
Yeah, right. Mm-hmm.
Yeah, right. No harm in keeping fish, for sure.
Brian Bashore (44:56)
But.
To your point that they were basing their limits off of not ever being successful. And now everybody is so much more successful with Ford facing Sonar. I mean, that same trend has happened in like in the archery world with the evolution of, you know, the, the long bow to the compound bow to the crossbow. And that's, I know we've had that over here where they have adjusted the non-resident archery permits because the kill rate successes 75, 80% now. You know, that I'm just throwing that number out there. I can't, I spread it somewhere. I don't remember exactly what it is.
Joel Nelson (45:20)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Bashore (45:26)
But it used to be like 20 or 30%. But now you're, you know, you can use a crossbow. You don't have to be handicapped or disabled, whatever the case is to get a crossbow. Anybody can use a crossbow. Well, that if you ever shot one, you can put a scope on that thing and shoot your deer at a hundred yards. I don't even shoot them at a hundred yards with my rifle.
Joel Nelson (45:42)
It's unreal. I know. Yeah. And it's so funny because we've seen Hunter and Angler numbers kind of change over time, right? Like Hunter numbers have been declining nationwide. But when COVID happened, both of them got a little boost. Angling got a much bigger boost than did hunting, but both of them got a boost. And it's interesting because...
You have less people that are being more successful. Maybe the numbers all play out, but a little bit of studying needs to be done to just try and figure out at what level of success with X level of participation. Does the quality of the experience fade out? Cause that's what I'm interested in. I, I don't need these days, um, to fish every single day, but when I fish, I want it to be a great experience, you know, call me.
call me selfish in that way, but like, yeah, I'm just looking for the best experience possible every time I go out, quality, right?
Brian Bashore (46:45)
Right, and it doesn't always mean to catch or kill.
Joel Nelson (46:47)
No, it doesn't. Nope. Just having a great day in the water is a good... I mean, especially with kids, right? Like I... I want to show them something cool, something different, something new. Have them have an experience. That's the goal anymore. Yeah, you're gonna slay them some days and we'll certainly remember those days with favor.
Brian Bashore (46:52)
And there's.
Right.
Right. But if you have those days all the time, they're not near special as that one, two, three days a year where you, when it was on and you got your boys or what? Young teenagers now, I mean, they're at that age where they're like, Hey, let's go dad and they can go, they can do it on their own. I mean, that's they're all in there. They're into this fishing thing and you're not getting away from it, whether you want to or not. So.
Joel Nelson (47:12)
100%. Couldn't agree more.
Couldn't agree more.
Yup.
Yeah, they push me to go more and it's good. It's a good thing. I need that because I'm sure you get a little burnt out with all the stuff that you're doing. You're guiding and you're doing tournament angling. Sometimes it's hard to find time to get out on the water with the family because of all the other stuff that you do outside of the family time. But yeah, my kids push me. If we got conditions for it, we're trying to hit it for sure.
Brian Bashore (47:57)
It is, that's what people think and that, oh, you guide or you just, you get, you're living the dream and you know, and it's like, well, it's not, it's not lucrative by all means. It is enjoyable, but it's, it's 10, 20% fishing and 80% business and marketing and other things and making sure those clients are continuing to come in and I can keep the other couple of guides busy with them and, and cause you're not just supporting yourself. You're trying
Joel Nelson (48:13)
Oh yeah, yeah.
Brian Bashore (48:22)
to support.
others, and then you obviously have your sponsor responsibilities. I need to go get all this stuff done to be able in the guide boat. They're like, well, this, you know, this is we're having fun. It's all good. What are you doing? You're not, you know, doing this. I'm like, I'm doing this. Okay. We're going to get done fishing a day and maybe today kind of sucked and the bite was off or fish were just gone. I'm like, I'm going to be out for the next three or four hours finding, you know, what, what was it working? See where these fish went. So the might of moral people have a better experience than today's people.
Joel Nelson (48:51)
Sure. Yeah.
Brian Bashore (48:52)
Or you're just going out to get some content for the sponsor or whatever. I'm like, this is it. This is what we do. So when does the family get to go? Right. It's like, you know, and getting that kind of the point where we can sometimes set, I will try to schedule out of that and book it way in advance and just block those days out or, you know, maybe leave my weekend open for the family and let the other guys that want to work those weekends, take all those people out, but it's a short season sometimes. And you got to take everything you can get while you can get it.
Joel Nelson (48:59)
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah, you said that business standpoint, you're right. For the first 10 years in the industry, for me, I didn't do that very well. I just went fishing and had a great time. Lost a lot of money in the process, self-funded, all kinds of different fun things with the industry and other partners I had at the time. But, you know, after a while you got to protect your ability to keep doing this. Right. I mean, so.
Brian Bashore (49:38)
Yep.
Joel Nelson (49:49)
So you do that by becoming better at business and, you know, being more professional too, and learning how to develop things for your sponsors that are worthwhile for them to like, you just get better at your craft over time. Right.
Brian Bashore (50:04)
Right.
Yeah. So for those that don't know, Joel's done some seminars for the end national professional angular association conference on resumes. And I mean, all that stuff comes back to business. We talked about it earlier with the influencers and pro staff and we had a previous podcast with Pat and I and talked about that, the difference between, you know, a pro or pro staff versus a sponsorship. It's muddy waters and, you know, and everybody wants to, it's like NASCAR and they put as many logos on my...
Jersey as I can or stickers on my truck or pro staff for nine different companies in their Facebook profile. And the reality is you're, some of these people are charging you to be on those pro staff, you know, to in return offer you a 20% discount on something you could probably get anyway. I mean, they're not, the companies aren't stupid. They're making money on it and they have to make money to support the whole programs. Um, but I think people just need to realize and put a value on yourself and what you're doing. But like I said, it comes back to quality over quantity.
Joel Nelson (50:42)
Yeah.
Right. Yeah. Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yep. You got to be good at what you're doing to try and bring value. And I, you know, if it doesn't work in terms of what you can provide for them and bringing a value, then it's probably not something you should be doing. I just I think a lot of people just they struggle or strive in this influencer market to have sponsors or have brands that they represent. What if it's not a good fit? I mean, I I've had to turn down certain opportunities because.
just wasn't a good fit and I didn't use their product as much as I could have or should have or the way it should be used it just didn't fit my fishing style so yeah I could think of a couple of them right now that I'm sure you feel the same way right like if you can't do good by it what's the point trying to take a check
Brian Bashore (51:52)
Yep, yep, nope, exactly. Speaking of new products,
have you used the 7 Rills? Are you still a diehard Iowa guy?
Joel Nelson (51:55)
Yeah.
Yeah, I have. Yeah. I've been a die-higher, die-well guy for years. I've used the seven reels. In fact, it's funny you say that I got two in my desk right now. I've got, uh, got both the GS and the GX series. They're just hanging out over here off screen, but yeah, I had a chance to use them all last summer. Um, I used them a lot for casting for both walleye and small mouth, um, on forward facing sonar.
Brian Bashore (52:10)
Might are just hanging up.
Joel Nelson (52:27)
So like for that application, they work really good out on the river, like spring walleye fishing. For us, it's spring. For you guys, you do it more parts of the year. But for us, it's a real big spring push. And so pitching plastics, like they were really great for that because the drags were good. Like if I'd snag a buffalo or I'd hook into, let's say a pike or something that was really big, going to test the drag up against cover and stuff. I was really impressed, especially with the GX. Like that sucker is awesome.
Brian Bashore (52:35)
Well...
Joel Nelson (52:57)
It's a good looking reel.
Brian Bashore (52:58)
I think they're like 20, 22 pound, 22 pound drags or something on those things. So.
Joel Nelson (53:01)
Yeah, yeah, you can crank down and you know, we're using braid on a lot of these anyway, especially out on the river, you know, you might have a leader tied in, you might not, depending on how dirty or dark dank the water is. But yeah, I've been a fan. I also use them for live bait rigging a few times up on Vermilion and a couple other big walleye waters. And yeah, I like the large arbor size on the spool.
Brian Bashore (53:08)
Yeah.
Joel Nelson (53:29)
They seem to both cast well, fit a fair amount of line, and the line pays on and pays off on the drag really well. So yeah, I've been a big fan. I've got a lot of diable reels still, but I'm kind of in the process of moving over because I do like everything about them. They've just worked out pretty well for me.
Brian Bashore (53:52)
Yeah, they do. They feel good that they're braid ready, which is nice. No backing required. It's got that little rubber band through the spool on there and that wider spool makes that line come off.
Joel Nelson (53:56)
Yes. God, what? I know this thing right here, like, come on, like that's such a great idea. Why they all should have that, right?
I mean, what did you used to do? Did you used to put down like electrical tape or something on the spool just to hold that before? You know, before that's what you had to do. So I like not having to do that.
Brian Bashore (54:09)
Yeah, why do they not?
Yep. I'd put a model backing or I, or I would tape it down exactly. And then, and then spool it on. And there's a few other ones out there. I think that have a little something like that, but that, that one works. I just, I got a couple of the GS two thousands and yeah, I'm loving them. I used them last spring. Got a, uh, Dan Johnson had some they've got to play with for one day. I'm like, yeah, this, yeah, these, this is legit. These are real. So looking forward to getting those out or to completely loading up the arsenal with them this
Joel Nelson (54:39)
Yup. No doubt.
Brian Bashore (54:46)
year.
140 and 190 maybe GS 140 GX is 190
Joel Nelson (54:49)
Yeah, yeah, it corresponds to the rest of the market quite well. Yep, right in there, 150 to 199 GS to GX. And yeah, it's interesting because we're always looking for, as walleye folks, or multi-species folks, a real or real model or two that you can just like invest in, right, that you can put across multiple different rods, have a pile of them.
Brian Bashore (54:53)
I think sounds about right.
Joel Nelson (55:18)
know how each one of them works. I don't love having a ton of different brands and a ton of different models mixed into my fleet. I kind of like having similar sizes, similar brands, similar models, because every time I pick up a different rod then, I just, the feel is what you expect, the performance is what you know. I'm kind of a fan of that approach. So yeah, I've got.
Brian Bashore (55:26)
Mm-hmm.
Joel Nelson (55:43)
This 2500 series in the GS is probably going to be bread and butter for most of them. And then my real lightweight applications. Um, yeah, some of the featherweight, uh, legend series rods on the, uh, on the St. Croix side, uh, legend extreme, legend tournament, uh, legend elite. That's probably what I'll pair up with those is this GX. So that's my strategy. That's how I'm going into the season.
Brian Bashore (56:09)
Yep. Nope. Me too. I use, I'll mix, don't tell my little mix them. I don't even mix brands, but I'll go to the higher gear ratio and maybe that's for the crank bait, you know, rod or whatever the case it is, and I usually have to mark that one so I can remember. Um, but otherwise keep them same across the board. I want the same feel. I can, I mean, I got different rods for different situations and I, and I know that going into it, but if I got to pick one up and also I got to lose on it like this, it's just, I lost it.
Joel Nelson (56:20)
Yeah.
Yeah.
doesn't feel right, right? It's like, what's going on here?
Brian Bashore (56:38)
I don't like it. No. Yeah, it's just, it is tricky. So, and as a guide, I like to keep all the clients using the same rods and the same reels. It's inevitable. One guy is going to catch way more than the other. And if any husband or wife, the wife always outfishes the husband. It never fails. But I'm going to be like, you're all using the exact same stuff. You all have 10 pounds cigar, smack down on that, you know.
Joel Nelson (56:57)
Hahahaha
Yeah?
Brian Bashore (57:06)
610 icon, whatever it is medium light rod with a quarter house or the jig head and a three foot cigar gold label leader You have the same stuff on so I'm like the problem is your bass fishing with that rod setting the hook and missing those where she's Just reading picking it up and real and never stopping and I like and that hooks get buried Therefore your wife's put more fish in a boat than you are and I'm sorry. It's just the way it is And if they don't then they'll catch the bigger one about bet you 90. Oh Yeah, 90% of the time the way I'm gonna catch
Joel Nelson (57:21)
That's awesome. Ha ha ha. That's gotta be a hard truth to tell.
Brian Bashore (57:35)
more or a bigger fish. And I've seen it to where, I mean, sometimes these husbands are getting pissed. They're just like, oh, you know.
Joel Nelson (57:41)
Ha ha
That's awesome. Hey, that's gotta be a hard...
Brian Bashore (57:46)
Only a few times where I thought they were gonna kick him out of the boat.
It is, it just, yeah. Most time they're pretty encouraging and they're like, Hey, all right. She's that's it. That's what it's all about. But then there's some that they get up in the front and they're just like, man, they get frustrated. They ain't catching them and their wives catching them all. But I tell them right off the bat and in the morning, here's what's going to happen, just start to accept it right now. She's, you know, I'm not doing anything special. I may once while spin the boat around and, you know, maybe put them on the right side, where they're at closer to a rock pile, but for the most part, I'm like, is this
It's the way it is because they're keeping it simple, right? They're just, they're not falling out of their seat, setting the hook. When it's a little tiny walleye biter, it's sucking on that live bait. So it is comical.
All right. Well, I know you're a busy man, Joel, and we've wrapped up. We've taken up your time this morning. I think we've covered a lot of things. There's one thing you could leave with the anglers out there, you know, whether they're just weekend guys, industry guys, tournament pros. What's that one little what's that? Joel Nelson's golden nugget.
Joel Nelson (58:57)
Hmm. It's funny. Um, I get asked that a fair amount. Like, could you give me one tip? Could you, what's one thing you could kind of help me out with on the water? And I try and keep my mind active when I'm out there, which is hard because you're paying attention to the navigation, right? You're trying to position the boat. You're thinking about the people around you and you're trying to stay on fish. There's all these like.
physical things that you're doing, that your mind is like working on that stuff. But I'm trying to think always about the next spot I'm going to head to. And I always want to know the why. And I encourage anglers, like let's say you're new to angling and you've got the live stuff and it's helping you find fish. Answer the why. Why are those fish there to begin with? And as, and as long as you know that you're going to have a better idea on where to go to next.
I see too many people, okay, the fish aren't here next spot. And they're not even thinking about why or where the next spot is. They're literally saying, oh, there's another point over there kind of like the one I was just fishing or, hey, I think humps, you know, there's a bunch of humps out there on Winnie, let's just fish the next one. It's like, man, no, no. Dig in, let's think a couple layers deeper and try and figure out, okay, well, I saw a bunch of bait perch up on these real shallow humps and there weren't any walleyes up there, but a bunch of bait perch.
Brian Bashore (01:00:14)
That's right.
Joel Nelson (01:00:26)
And then I checked out a mid-level hump and there were more nicer perch and a couple of walleyes slid off the sides. And then, you know, well, this one had gravel versus this one had mud off the edge. Like you're constantly trying to think, solve that puzzle. So my advice to anglers is don't turn your brain off and start hunting for spots on a map to just, you know, you know, go to. Think about what you're seeing, what...
fish are relating to and what other spots out there might look similar to where you did have some success to repeat on. I just, I see too many people on an average fishing day, they're just wild ass guessing their way through it. So I think if you put a little more thought into how you're fishing and why, be observational about what you're doing, you're gonna have a lot better experience out in the water.
There it is.
Brian Bashore (01:01:19)
I think we're, a lot of us are just wild ass guessing our way through life. So I think, you know, it's, there's, there's a lot of that out there. So, but you nailed it all ahead. The why, and that's, that's a big thing. I used to always say, yup. I've said that to a lot of the, a lot of prophets I'd worked with is quit. Everybody's about the how and the what it's the ultimate question and answer is the why. And it's not answer it three times. You know, ask somebody, well, why are you doing that? Well, this, why you do, why, why?
Joel Nelson (01:01:27)
That's true. I did it too.
Brian Bashore (01:01:48)
And then about a third time, I always seem like you get to the root of it, where they pause and just go, well, I don't know, or it doesn't make any sense. I'm like, it's probably not the right one, but if you can't answer the third, why, or you'll get to the root and you're like, because of this, I've seen this pattern, I've seen this as gravel boom, they're going to slide up on top and eat those perch in the evening, they're down here now hanging out, it's a little deeper overhead sun, you know, put, put all this together, but remember those places because that's going to be your, your where later, you know, in the day or what have you. So,
Joel Nelson (01:01:55)
Hehe
Yes.
Yes.
Brian Bashore (01:02:18)
but.
Joel Nelson (01:02:18)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:02:18)
Be observant be observant to others around you right? What's hey, these guys are catching the hell out of them What are they doing? Oh, they're outside rods are going back when you're trolling when you turn speed, you know Or this charter boats catching them all like area, but I'm not he's clearly going faster Granted, you know, which can obviously just mean I only go faster. I just need to bring them up in a water column You know, so just pay attention to what's happening and keep thinking I live it live in my head about what's next? Where am I going? Why am I gonna go there and win?
Joel Nelson (01:02:40)
Ugh.
Brian Bashore (01:02:48)
You know, and then when you get them, why, why did I get them here at 10 15 today and not at seven 30 this morning?
Joel Nelson (01:02:48)
Yeah.
Yes! Yeah!
And those are the most rewarding parts for me and probably for you about angling is when you can observationally work your mind through a pattern, have it be successful and understand why it all worked out. That to me is like, that's a great feeling.
Brian Bashore (01:03:13)
Yeah
That is, that is the, that's the golden nugget right there. And that, that is the good feeling. I mean, it's hunting in a sense, right? We're hunting, we're trying to figure it out, pattern, pattern these fish. And then when it all comes to, you're just like, okay, I got it, you know, and now I'm ready to go find, do it again. Let me go somewhere else, find a different species, whatever the case may be, or just sit there and, you know, hammer on some fish for a while and have a good day. So awesome, awesome stuff, Joel. Thank you so much for joining us today and for your time this morning. Um,
Joel Nelson (01:03:33)
That's right.
I'm gonna go.
Brian Bashore (01:03:44)
Maybe there's still some ice in the future. I think we got a little bit of cold coming after this week or two, a real warm, but it probably won't be very good ice. But if not, we got open water around the corner. And I think you and I are both looking forward to that as much as we can, but be safe out there getting these photos and all this content created over the next month or so while you can for these companies, everybody's going to see that hidden catalogs and social and everywhere, you know, coming next year. Like I said, if you haven't, you don't know who Joel Nelson is, check them out of Joel Nelson outdoors and.
Crawling out from underneath that rock guys cuz he's everywhere Otter right still doing a lot of stuff with otter so I mean he's just Joel's the
Joel Nelson (01:04:18)
Yep, Otter, Markham, Ion Ogres, you bet.
Brian Bashore (01:04:24)
Yeah, he's, he's there just putting it out there, putting good stuff, good content. The man knows his stuff. So that is a wrap for us today. Thanks. Thanks for tuning into this episode of real talk, fishing with no limits. And Mr. Joel Nelson, you can find us right here on YouTube where you're watching this over on any of those podcast platforms like Amazon, Apple, Spotify, Google, or around the wall, I guys website as well. So thanks for tuning in and we will see you on the water.
Joel Nelson (01:04:53)
Thanks, Brian.