Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Unbound is a weekly podcast, created to help you achieve more as a leader. Join Chris DuBois as he shares his growth journey and interviews others on their path to becoming unbound. Delivered weekly on Thursdays.
0:00
Your attitude can be one of the most effective tools in your arsenal. But it starts by having the right mindset. Are you a leader trying to get more from your business and life? Me too. So join me as I document the conversations, stories and advice to help you achieve what matters in your life. Welcome to unbound with me, Chris DuBois. John Lester is on a mission to transform limiting mindsets that hold back salespeople and small business owners. Having built his career helping companies big and small drive revenue through coaching and training. John knows that tech stacks skills and product knowledge are ineffective without the right sales psychology. His goal is to help sellers and solopreneurs reframe sales as mutually beneficial versus oppositional through personal insights and practical coaching. John, welcome to unfound. Chris,
0:49
thank you. Pleasure to be here. Yeah, great topic. Let's, let's jump into this. A lot of people a lot of help right now.
0:57
Cheers. And let's, let's jump right in with your origin story.
0:59
So let's let's talk about when I was just a little seller. And I actually never wanted to I never wanted to get into sales. But I just I just happened to I actually come out of out of the fixit world. So I was a repair person on computers many, many years ago. And long story short, my boss reformulated the companies that hey, good, good, good news and bad news. They said, Well, go ahead. Tell me both. He said, Well, the good news is we're independent now. So we can do we want the bad news is unless we have sales, I don't need a repair guy. I say great. Where does that leave me. He says Well, goodbye or learn how to sell. I said it's kind of an interesting perspective. So I figured, let me give it a shot. And I made the biggest mistake in sales that you can make when you start out, I was successful in the beginning. Because then you think you understand what you're doing. And that's the biggest mistake because you don't. But I went through many, many years of selling, I had ups and downs and I was going slowly getting better. And it took me a number of years before I realized I didn't have a clue as to what I was doing. I really didn't because sales is a lot harder than people think until they get into it. And I finally took a course at the time it was Dale Carnegie. And it opened my eyes to say, hey, you know, there's a process, which to me was a revelation, and continued and just over the years, because I've been selling for over 40 years now over the years, we end up becoming one of the top achievers. But all of the lessons that I could have learned early, that took me so long, caused an awful lot of frustration, an awful lot of nights waking up at three o'clock in the morning screaming because they didn't know what I was doing a lot of layoffs, I've probably worked for more companies than most people can recite. It's just an unfortunate situation. So I come from this whole thing, understanding how to be successful, and understanding how not to be successful. And I've identified what I think is the easiest one to fix, and the most basic core issue and that salesperson mindset. So it's not all about learning. You know, what does my product do? Can I recite my product features inside and out? And people actually do that years ago? It's not about you know, how do I get six yeses out of the seller so that the 70 s is a contract. I mean, those things just simply don't work. And yet I was raised and bred and all of that. And it's a lot of the sales training that goes on right now that still purports to say that this stuff works. Doesn't, alright, it doesn't. And there's nothing wrong with tactics, you need them. There's nothing wrong with sales training, you need it. There's nothing wrong with understanding the value that your product brings. But the first thing you have to do is have the right mindset to sell.
3:42
Hey, I like saying you should be a aim to be a strategic tactician and get the best of both worlds in there. But yeah, something else that I this is a great topic that I very much want to get into. Because anytime I'm working with a client, we start with the mindset then skill set, then tool set. And the the flow generally works better, right? Because so how many sales reps have you talked to? Who think oh, well, if I just download this program, right, or get access to like a zoom info list, now I have everything I need. And it's like, Yeah, but what if those first 1000 people you talk to are all knows how are you going to be able to keep yourself up to be able to get to that next one? Right? That first? Yes.
4:20
But one of the things I find fascinating because I want to make this relevant to people listening. What I always find interesting in in professional sports are actually college level sports to when a team that has never been to the biggest game where the most significant game in their particular space. So the first time a team makes it to the Super Bowl. All right. They always talk about what's going on inside that team's mind. Because it's not about whether they can execute the plays. It's not about whether they can read the defense whether or not they can move the offense downfield. What it's about is, can they picture themselves in that field in that environment they've never been there before. That's the whole mindset trick that I'm talking about. And there have been many teams in all of these, whether it's baseball or basketball or football, that have gotten to that point, and have not succeeded simply because the mind didn't put them in the right place. And then there had been teams that were complete underdogs that blew the competition away. Because they expected themselves to be there and believed in their heart that they could be there. That's kind of what I'm talking about when I talk about mindset relative to sell.
5:38
Yeah, no fighter enters the ring expecting to lose.
5:42
Right muster up against Mike Tyson. That's a whole nother story.
5:46
Right. But ya know, that's a topic. I mean, I used to tell that to my soldiers, were like, Your attitude is one of your most dangerous weapons. Because if you're showing up thinking I can I can solve this problem, right? I don't care what type of weaponry you got that soldier is going to be way more dangerous on the battlefield than, than any anyone else.
6:03
There's no, yeah, there's no question. But uh, yeah, so let's,
6:07
let's jump into some of the questions I got for you, with the first being what what are some of the most common like unhelpful assumptions that sellers are making about buyers? and stuff? And like things that kind of hold them back?
6:22
Yeah, that that's really an interesting one. And again, it's it's really going to depend on the seller in the background. But there are a lot of things that they can be thinking, one of the things that a lot of sellers don't understand, and I would call it an unhelpful assumption is that there are two decisions that get made or two components of the decision to get made in every single sale. There's a buying motivation that is particular to the needs of the individual, that doesn't necessarily get expressed. And then there's the justification buying methodology. So if I want to buy something for me, I'm going to go out and I'm going to buy it, and then I'm going to get home. And the story I tell my wife as to why I bought it is completely different. All right. So we all need motivations, internal motivations, for us to do anything, even a corporate buyer is going to make decisions to a certain amount based on their needs being fulfilled. And those needs could be as simple as liking the seller, trusting the process, understanding the help that they're getting as being beneficial, then they will justify it from a financial perspective, usually, to their senior management. But the seller has to understand that both of these are in play at all times. A lot of sellers believe still today that the buyer is uninformed. That is so completely wrong. The buyers today are more informed than the sellers, because the data is out there. Which wasn't true years ago. Another really big one, and you'll see this it's not obvious at first, but you see it if you watch the transactions, is they believe that that the determinant factor in winning the business is price. And that is so absolutely wrong. In fact, there's been studies that show that the more you move down on price for your buyer, the less likely you are to win the deal. It's counterintuitive,
8:15
right, almost cheapens the value it does seem like you're providing Well, actually,
8:19
it actually scares the buyer. Because the buyer is going wait a minute, what's going on what so there's no value to the thing that addressed me to pay for. Okay. And I think I think the the last one I want to mention because it is so important is too many sellers, listen to the buyer. And the buyer says this is what I want. The seller believes that the buyer understands what they're trying to do. The buyer is looking for a certain outcome, but they don't necessarily understand the ramifications of it and what they're really trying to accomplish. And the really good sellers understand how to draw that out. They understand how to question the buyer in a helpful manner so that the buyer says, oh, no, I didn't necessarily want that I really wanted something else. But if they don't help them to do that, what's going to happen is that the buyer is either going to get scared and not make a decision. Or if they do make a decision. They're going to turn around later and go wait a minute. That's not what I really wanted. Well, that's what you told me you wanted. Well, yeah, but why did you listen to me? And I've heard that conversation happen. The buyers expect the sellers today to help them make the decisions as to what's important to them.
9:40
That wasn't true if and then yeah, that's an area too, that leads to poor reviews. Right? Because I've heard that one individual was unhappy even though you gave them what they wanted, which now hurts the company because it's gonna slow down sales and that's exactly right.
9:56
Right. So there's, you know, the thing that Sometimes the seller doesn't understand is that if they don't take care of these things upfront, the wrong strategy gets deployed against the buyer. And we can go on for that for a long time. They, they basically wind up wasting time, they waste a lot of time to waste the buyers time. And it really does destroy their credibility, and they might not even realize it. And then the buyer, Miko really helped me think about it. And they didn't realize they just talked themselves out of a sale, or didn't orchestrate the sale properly.
10:28
Right. So it's a skill to, to be able to ask the question, the client, or the you know, the prospect, I guess gives you their answer. And then the seller to be able to understand why they answer that way. Or even what if they follow up with a question? Why are they asking that so you can get to the actual root cause of their issue to be able to guide them along the right path? Yeah. So like, that's, I mean, not that I'm an expert on that. But like, that's something I've deliberately worked on. And it's like, oh, these conversations are all going better, because I'm actually getting after the thing that's below what they're, they're saying up front?
11:04
Well, Chris, the seller has to understand and as I say, the better ones do. Alright, so it's not a question that by not rushing in, just to see if they can close the deal and take the order. But really trying to understand if the fit is there, is there actually providing service to the buyer. And this is where people are going to really start to have to understand that AI doesn't do that. That the role of a human is still to do that. So the more we can get to simple decisions, the less we need the salesperson. The more we're into complex decisions, complex implications, the more you need a seller. But if the seller doesn't move their game up, they're going to basically work themselves out of a job. And that's we're seeing that happen right now, by the way.
11:52
So is that something, I guess with like discovery calls, right? Generally, when we're talking like b2b stuff, it's gonna be a longer sales cycle. First call is usually some form of discovery qualification type deal. I've been on so many of these goals, where it's, it's actually a pitch for their product, right? They're not actually trying to learn from me, they're trying to make sure they can show me everything that they're capable of assisting with, how do you kind of, and so but if they came in and just really knew my problem, and were able to articulate it in a way that I'm like, Yes, that is me. Like you've won me over on that first
12:26
call without pitching by the ways, right? Just by
12:30
caring about what my actual problem is? Correct? Correct. So how do you kind of work with work with sales reps to get that understanding that like, it's not just about making this pitch? It's about actually understanding your customer and knowing how to kind of, I don't know, unveil these these actual challenges that they're having, so that you can show him how that's that's
12:51
that's a great question to such a core question. One of the things when when people come into my mastermind, I'm big on, I'm big on subconscious language, because it really dictates what we do and what we don't do. And one of the things I tell them is, they're not allowed to use the word sell or selling, they're certainly not allowed to use the word pitch, because there's only possibly maybe one 100, the 1% of the selling population that knows how to pitch, there are very few people that are good at pitching. It is an art way beyond comparison. And it's very, very rare. Okay. So what I say to them is you can't, you can't use the word sell, you can't think about sell, you can't think about selling, you're there to provide value. Now, if you're there to provide value, you need to really understand what value you're bringing, not from your perspective from the buyers perspective. Now, if you understand what value you provide to the buyer, not a single buyer, but the buyer class that you're going after the buyer prototype, if you will, if you truly understand that, then you'll engage in a conversation that's helping the buyer understand that you bring the value and from that, they will naturally add to that conversation, how that value can help them. You don't have to sit there and ask him 100 questions. And I don't know a single buyer that wants to sit there and get a discovery call dawned on him. This whole notion of discovery, I think is considerably distorted. This should be a conversation about here's what I can do for you. And maybe you're using, here's what I've done for somebody else that's like you, you know, here's some results. Maybe you just got some statistics built in this some case studies which are always good to help people correlate as to whether or not this makes sense to them. But to sit there and tell you I might my thing does this and that and the next thing is stop. Just stop. Nobody has time for it. Then because what are you really trying to accomplish in that in that initial call and this is so important, what you're really trying to accomplish in the very beginning. And I was just reading something we're Chris Voss was talking about the amount of time it takes for somebody to decide whether or not to trust you is seven seconds. So that first seven seconds, call it has more stuff going on in it than anybody wants to realize. So what you're trying to convey to the buyer is, it's okay to deal with me. You can trust me, you can trust what I have to offer you, you're going to get a fair shake, and we're going to help you make sure that it happens. But you're not going to do that by by doing discovery calls. Well, you know, how many people does it take to make the decision? Who's in the decision process? How long does it take? What you're purchasing process look like? What did you like about the last buyer? What did you sell? Or what did you not like? Stop? Stop. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. So yeah, hopefully that answers the question and gives you a little bit of insight into it. But it's, that is that is what's going on?
15:50
Yeah. So let's get into since we're talking psychology, right mindset, yeah. How one of the hardest parts about being in sales is handling rejection. So and that's coming from someone who hasn't actually been in sales, but has handled sales conversations I've ever had to face the continuous rejection. How do I how do you help them kind of reframe everything so that they can actually handle that rejection and start developing like a resilience right to it.
16:20
So there was an old, there's an old statistic, and again, who knows where it comes from, but it's many, many of the things I look at are good from a notional or directional perspective, as opposed to, it has to be that particular number. And it said that in anytime that a buyer that a seller is out selling, that have the target population that they're approaching, only 3% are ready to be potentially become clients and and of that 3%, you're not going to get 100% or 3%. So the first thing you have to recognize is that not everybody is really ready to buy doesn't mean it's a bad match. The thing, the other thing people have to really understand is that unless you screw up pretty badly, which I've seen a lot of guys do, unless you screw up. The buyer is not saying no to you, they are not rejecting you personally, they are rejecting something else. It's not you, maybe they're rejecting the offer, maybe they're rejecting the time maybe they're rejecting the process. It's not necessarily you, so don't get all hung up on that. Because again, it's a conversation about you have value to bring to them. Is the value of value to them. It's going to is it going to they understand it? Is it worth the time and energy is the timing right? You're not going to hit yeses on those all the time. So stop taking it personally. And the better you understand the value you bring, what you'd be surprised with this, there going to be more times where you turn to look at the at the buyer and say I don't think we have a match, you're going to wind up saying more nose to the buyer than the buyer is going to say to you because you need to be getting only the absolute best clients, for yourself. That's a whole nother philosophy. Yeah,
18:03
once a couple things first, I think if if you are able to say no, like this isn't the best fit for you. But you ask for those referrals if someone that they know could be a potential fit. I feel like you're more likely to get them like sending you other people because they can trust you that you came into Hey, you're you're not a great, you don't want to buy this. Yeah. Right. Like you built some credibility through that. And so very much actually not not a completely lost opportunity now, but also want to hone in on it. I think value is becoming a common thread through the conversation here. Right understanding the value so that you can show the individual who's who's purchasing what what you can actually provide for them, but also believing that that value exists for you to be able to go in with that confidence that you can sell this correct. Or there how do you go about making sure people actually understand the value of what they're they're working with.
19:02
And this is this is I think somewhat more recent thinking or and research that's gone on. But I find it fascinating and extraordinarily important. As a typical seller is winding themself up and selling every single day, the same thing. We're roughly the same thing within what's a certain confined zone. The buyer is probably making that decision maybe once a year or twice a year or once in a lifetime. I mean, think about it. The average the average retention length on an automobile today is 12 years. Okay. So once in every 12 years, somebody goes to the dealership to buy a car. Alright, who's more concerned about that deal? In that case, the seller or the buyer, the buyer scared out of their mind, because they're expecting be taken advantage of by the seller who's done that, what, 910 times a day for 12 years. And here's the seller buying it once. And they don't know the tricks. So the sellers really have an obligation, if they're smart, to not be so focused on just, here's what my product or my service does for you. But here's how to buy it. Here are the problems that you might run into, as you buy it, here are the people that you're going to need justification from here, the here's what they're going to be looking for. When I was doing high tech sales to major insurance companies, there were 15 to 17 decision makers in the loop. Some of which my customer, my buyer didn't even realize would get involved. anywhere from three levels of management above them to it to legal to HR to contracts to an end buyer, if they hadn't purchased, the class of goods that I was selling at the time, didn't understand all the things they had to do. So my job as a seller was to help cue them up and say, well, here, this person is going to ask you for this. So let's put a package together for them, this person is going to ask you this, let's put a package them and do all the pre work for them. Because as the saying goes, nobody wants to be sold, but everybody likes to buy. So the buyer wants to buy because they want to get that off their their list. But they don't want the stress. So really, if you help them alleviate the stress, because you're walking them through the process, you're going to have a much higher success rate. Yeah,
21:40
like,
21:41
it's a lot of work.
21:43
Yeah, definitely. So I don't want to get into tactics necessarily with this one. But I want to talk about how communication styles can influence it. You know, the conversation that you're having with the buyer actually building trust and credibility? I think you mentioned subconscious. Language, right? Being able to answer are there certain things that you should be doing to in order to get yourself in the right mindset so that you can show up? And and have your, your dialogue actually working? moving in the right direction?
22:17
Through that? Yeah, definitely. Chris, that's, that's a great question. And the seller just has to get into a mind frame of one, they provide value, and they are on equal footing with the buyer. That's the first thing they have to do. Because if you're not on equal footing, then you're always going to be in a subservient role. And you're never going to be able to develop a relationship. Alright, so So don't do that. Know your stuff. Okay. And I'm not saying know your product from the from the speeds and feeds and features, but understand the value that the product or the service that you're providing gives to them again, it's always from the perspective of the buyer. So how are they going to use how are they going to perceive the service, always understand that there's that conversation we just mentioned to you about the process of buying. So if you're helping them understand all of those things, if you are engaged, if you are interested, if you are focused, if you are all of those things in your relationship with the buyer, then you're going to see you as an advocate. Now, there's another side to that whole conversation. There are personality profiles, which I'm sure all of your listeners have come across, whether it's Myers Brigg, or discord, I mean, red, yellow, blue, green, whatever, there's, there's tons of them out there, they all provide a certain amount of value. And I'm not saying that somebody should go out and have their, their potential buyer get a personality profile before they deal with them, they should, they should have the personality profile on themselves. So they understand what their dominant traits are. But then they should just be sensitive to the fact that people are different. And that they have to kind of calm down, sit back and pick up the cues that the buyer is giving them and try to communicate with the buyer closer to the way the buyer wants to be communicated with. So it takes them calming down slowing down. Listening, more than talking. That's going to go a long way.
24:21
Yeah, what are I guess? What are some of the tips you would have for for building that kind of emotional intelligence? Right like baking that into the sales process so that they are looking for these cues they know to look for them separate from even knowing what the cue means but actually even just getting in the habit right of of trying to figure out the person as you're talking to them.
24:43
What has worked the best I've seen is is just be fanatically interested in the buyer as a human being not as a persona but as a human being. All right. You don't know if that fella got up this morning or that that lady got up this morning, in their 15 minute ride to work got got hit by a car and defender. You don't know if their kid calls from college and said, Mom, I just wanted to let you know that I'm okay. I just came out of rehab. I mean, you don't know what's going on in that person's life, you don't. Alright. And I can guarantee you that the vast majority of those people sitting there trying to make a decision on what to buy for their organization is probably not the highlight of their day. So let's get real. Let's kind of lean into it. All right, let's treat them as a person, be interested, be aware, they're going to repay that so much. And just the fact that you can slow down is going to help you and it's going to help your buyer. So I don't get all worked up about you know, let me go read the next 20 books on tactics it just after a while.
26:01
Yeah, no, I think at some point, you can boil everything down to like some principles, and then just show up knowing those and you can work everything else out based off that. So I guess what are some of the those inner critic lies that sellers need to recognize and refute?
26:22
Yeah, great one. I want to talk about in one of the masterminds they did, because I asked, I asked the participants or members, it's one or two of my said, do me a favor, send me back a note and tell me what your attitude of sales was prior to starting the mastermind, if you remember, and then send me what your attitude about selling is now, let's see what kind of shift came up. And I remember, one of them came back. And he said, he says, he said the attitude of sales prior to starting the class was the his own success was tied directly to the company or the product that he was representing. All right, that didn't leave him a whole lot of things that he could control. So what he's saying is, it's whatever they're doing, that's kind of what's controlling me. And his attitude after taking the class was that what he just said, was a lie that he fabricated in his head, because it put him at ease, for not chasing opportunities. Outside of his comfort zone, it was really kind of fascinating. He said, I now have more control than I realized. And I shouldn't wait for permission to chase those opportunities. Huge, huge difference, he will probably double to triple his revenue within 12 months after making that statement. Okay, I've had people start and tell me I'm not worthy. I don't know enough. I'm not equal. I'm not on equal footing. I mean, you go try to talk to a CEO of a, of a $10 billion company. And you know, you're sitting there making, you know, 100 150 120 170, doesn't matter. $1,000 a year. And this guy's making, what 10 million. There's a natural inclination to say, I don't belong at this table. And you've got to be That's what I said before. You've got to be able to understand the value that you bring, not only you, but what it is that you're offering. And if you're completely convinced they are correct. If you're completely convinced that you can actually help this person. There's no reason to let the dollar signs get in the way, but they do. They do. Alright, people believe Oh, sales is a scummy business sales is all about lying. I have to lie to be in sales. Now. Wait a minute, you don't. I'm an introvert. I can't do this. Oh, my God, do I hear that a lot. I'm an introvert. I can't do this. I have to be backslapping, and take them out for drinks Stop. Stop. It's not the way it works.
29:03
So I'm actually curious that first individually, you mentioned, he said he needed to not look at success as being dictated by the product and the company. Was that was that the shift that he actually just said, My success is not dictated by them? Or was it something else, like my success is dictated by how much value I can provide for my customer? What
29:22
do you realize is that the constraints of the organization didn't stop that shouldn't stop him. And this, and this is what I tried to get across. And I'll give you I'll give you a personal anecdote to maybe help make some sense out of it, because I'm a big believer of what I call core values. So I was working for an organization that was doing financial risk modeling for properties based upon natural catastrophes. And they had created a software package and we were selling it to the reinsurance industry. So in other words, you insurance companies take the risk, but then they take components of that risk, and they resell it to what's called reinsurance companies. That's the way the industry works. And it was, it was an interesting year, it was post Katrina. And all these guys were going out to start their get to get their quotes for the next year. And they were coming back and being told that the retention layer, in other words, the deductible that they had to pay, right now, again, these are people that are insuring, you know, a billion to $20 billion worth of assets. So they were being told that their retention layer was going up by 400%. So they were going to have to take 400% More as the first dollar of their loss, and their premiums are going up 300%. So think about that, if you're writing on 10 $20 billion worth of property. And what became really interesting was that we couldn't sell any models into this market, because they were going like, wait a minute, we can't afford any of this stuff. We don't even know what we're doing. But the value of their deals were big enough that we realized that they could actually go to the capital markets, and create bonds against their own properties. So the company that I was with didn't know what to do with it nice guy stop, you have to you have to stop thinking about us as selling a particular product to a particular group. I said, what we really do for a living, is we create the models, we create them, right now we're selling them as a package. Why don't we create one off models for each of these people that allow them to go to the capital markets and get their own bonds. And all of a sudden, the business started kicking in now the dollar amount on the business was much lower for each transaction. But the number of transactions went up by 50. Okay, why? Because I just had to think about what problem were we really trying to solve? And that's kind of what he's saying here is instead of saying, Here's what we here's what the company does or thinks it does. He say no, what can the company really do? So that's being a heads up sales guy.
32:11
So for the listeners who don't have access to the video yet, because it's it's not up, there's another episode where I've just been like a bobble head nodding yes, throughout the entire episode. Great conversation, a lot of great insights, I got three more questions that I want to show send your way with the first being what book do you think everyone should read?
32:31
It, there's so many good ones that I mean, if I if I turn my camera, you're gonna see about 300 books on my bookshelf, and they're all sales books. And they're all psychology books. Two books that I really like. And neither of them are easy reads, I'm going to tell the audiences right away, neither of them are easy reads. One is the Challenger sale, which is some of the best research on how sellers sell and how buyers buy. And it's still applicable today. The other is is vos his book, never split the difference is a lot of wisdom in his stuff. That's not to put down, you know, Goggins or any of these other guys. Jocko, any of these people, districts or or blunter? No, I'm just saying, if you're gonna pick two right now, go get those work with those two. So it's challenger sale, and never split the difference.
33:28
What is next for you professionally,
33:31
I am looking to build this mastermind offering out so I can help people in this area, get people to realize that this is not a big lift, to go through this kind of a process. But the return on this are just amazing. And while the other is I'm not telling anybody not to go pursue sales training, not telling anybody not to pursue product knowledge, any of those things. I'm just saying, if you go through this program, you're going to utilize those learnings much more effectively, much more efficiently. Because you got to start here. And this is like, you know, a 5000 pound car rolling down the road. But if the ball bearings in the wheels start to get worn, what happens to the car, air conditioning works, radio works, Windows work, cars don't work. So kind of look at myself as the ball bearing kind of guy. And what I'm looking to do as as quickly as the Canada's, I want to help 1000 people. There are a lot of people and especially people that have decided that either they can't be employed by corporate America or don't want to be employed by corporate America. And they're going out and saying I'm going to hang up a shingle, and they really don't understand in order to make that work, they still have to sell. Sorry, guys, but debt is the game like it or not. And I'm telling you right now, it's going to be like wolves to slaughter are lambs to slaughter. They just kind of go out they're not going to realize they have to do this. They got great ideas. They got great value, but they don't understand how to express it and they don't have their head straight about who they are from Have a sales perspective. And that can be successful Chris. And I, you know, too bad for them. It's just their kids I worry about.
35:10
Yep. Finally, where can people find you?
35:15
Attitude selling.com is the best place to come get me. Everything is right there. It's so it's attitude selling one word.com. And if you go on the right hand side of that it talks about the mastermind program gives you my Calendly information gives me my year, my phone number information, email, everything. So feel free. Reach out to me. Get involved in a conversation. Let's see what's going on. See how we can help you.
35:41
Awesome. All right, John, thank you for joining me.
35:43
Take my pleasure. Thank you great questions.
35:48
If you enjoyed today's episode, I would love a rating and review on your favorite podcast player. And for more information on how to build effective and efficient teams through your leadership visit leading for effect.com As always deserve it
Transcribed by https://otter.ai