Defining Hospitality

What if the best sign of great hospitality is that nothing ever gets in your way? Dan Ryan sits down for a live recording of Defining Hospitality, set in a podcast studio tucked inside a former 1930s sandwich shop at Rockefeller Center. The conversation moves from frictionless guest experiences to the habit of saying “we” instead of “I,” with stops along the way for world building, big stakeholder rooms, and the fears that grow as a business does. It’s candid, funny, and built on a friendship that came before any business did.

Drew Stewart is an architect, interior designer, and occasional developer, and a founding partner and director of construction and development at INC Architecture & Design. He has spent 20 years growing the New York studio into a powerhouse, earning a spot in the Interior Design Hall of Fame along the way. His work includes the TWA Hotel, 1 Hotel Brooklyn Bridge, and the Atlas Hotel at Harvard, and he is celebrating the milestone with a monograph, Us Is More, hitting shelves TODAY October 14th.

Chapters:
00:00 Why Hospitality Matters
00:35 Meet Drew Stewart
01:22 Recording at Rock Center
03:00 A Designer’s Eye for Detail
04:09 Defining Frictionless Hospitality
05:44 Managing Mega Projects
11:19 Tech That Aligns Stakeholders
14:52 Hall of Fame Moment
19:07 Us Is More and The Book
34:38 Spending Your Own Money
35:10 Fine Tuning Design Value
35:54 New Empathy For Developers
37:06 Entrepreneurship And Risk
38:04 Fear Grows With Success
39:08 TWA And World Building
41:06 Rockefeller Concourse Redesign
47:29 Building 1 Hotel With Barry
50:51 Book Future And Farewell

Quote of the Show:
“Having creative, thoughtful people across the table turns out to be the single most important thing about any project.” - Drew Stuart

Building a hotel, brand, or guest experience? Reach out to Dan on LinkedIn or hit reply on the Substack to share what you’re working on.

Links:
🏨✨ Defining Hospitality is Sponsored by Berman Falk https://www.bermanfalk.com/ - Check out their impact page! 🌍🌱 https://www.bermanfalk.com/impact/ 

Ways to Tune In: 

Creators and Guests

Host
Dan Ryan
Host of Defining Hospitality
Producer
Serena Johnson

What is Defining Hospitality?

Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.

Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.

Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.

To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.

DH - Drew Stewart
===

[00:00:00]

What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together, we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.

This podcast is sponsored by Berman Falk Hospitality Group, a design-driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms

Dan Ryan Audio: Today's guest is an architect, interior designer, and an occasional developer. He's been inducted into the Interior Design Hall of Fame. He spent 20 years leading and growing a wonderful team at INC Architecture and Design. He's worked across high-end residential, hospitality, commercial, gallery, and retail projects.

He's a founding partner and director of construction and [00:01:00] development at INC Incorporated and Design, and book, a monograph, is coming out October 14th. 20 years, your whole life summarized in a book, which we'll talk about in a second. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Drew Stewart. Welcome, Drew.

Drew Stewart Audio: Thank you, Dan. Thank you so much.

Dan Ryan Audio: I've been wanting to do this with you for a really long time,

Drew Stewart Audio: Years. We've been talking about this for years.

Dan Ryan Video: years. I, might have begged a couple times, and I know we do a lot of work together, and I knew our time would come. But I think good things always come to those who wait.

Dan Ryan Audio: And what I mean by that is, number one, you and INC's monograph here is a testament that we'll talk about. Yeah. Number two, we just finished the Kimpton Ara Hotel, which is right across the street. Mere

Drew Stewart Audio: steps f- away we're

Dan Ryan Audio: recording. where we're recording.

And if I didn't hold out, we wouldn't have Joe here.

Right. And this space, which I've heard about for years through my [00:02:00] friend Amy Drummey, shout out Amy, to this incredible podcast studio in the heart of Rockefeller Center in a 1930s sandwich

Drew Stewart Audio: shop.

Exactly, and it's like if we could've ever picked a, the center of a Venn diagram of locations to record, this is it. Since we did handle the concourse level renovation of Rockefeller Center and this new Kimpton, it felt like a pretty magic spot to try to this in.

Dan Ryan Audio: Yeah. And a, a metric that I wanna share with everyone is w- we broadcast this on YouTube, but however many people watch this on YouTube, 'cause most of them are remote, which is really convenient, you-- if you multiply that by 30 or 40, that's the number of people that listen.

That's the audio portion of the podcast. What's-- So if you are listening, for this episode, I would definitely suggest go onto YouTube and check it out, because Joe has built the most incredible ground-level podcast studio here, and, uh, thank you. And thank you to Rock Center. There he [00:03:00] is. Thumbs up.

I've known you for so long. We've been such friends for so long. We've done countless projects together. one of my favorite memories of

Drew Stewart Audio: you-

Oh, no. Here we here's the oh,

Dan Ryan Audio: no. No, it's, it's a good one.

Dan Ryan Video: Um-

Dan Ryan Audio: The restaurant is

Drew Stewart Audio: called

Iris.

Dan Ryan Audio: Mm-hmm.

It's around the corner from here. It's on Broadway and F- 50 something. Yeah,

53rd. Yeah, so it's kind of around the

corner.

Drew Stewart Audio: Iris on- It's, it's

Dan Ryan Audio: closed

now.

Oh, no. Yeah. Oh, Oh, that place

Drew Stewart Audio: was great. The building is being converted

Dan Ryan Audio: residential, so-

Drew Stewart Audio: Man ... they could not keep the restaurant in its conversion concept. So sadly, it

Dan Ryan Audio: last

fall.

That's so upsetting because I remember sitting there with you.

It had recently opened. We were having lunch. You were sitting at the window looking to the center of the restaurant. I was facing you in the window, and I was like, "So what's it like to eat in the restaurant that you and your team designed?" And you were looking up at the, I guess the top a column.

Mm-hmm. And you're just like, "I can't believe they didn't cover that column." [00:04:00] And it was a detail that I or, and probably every other human on Earth would never have noticed. Yeah. So with that in mind-

Sharing meal, breaking bread. What does hospitality mean to you?

Drew Stewart Audio: hospitality is everything. I also think it is an undefinable thing at the same time.

I think hospitality is something different for everyone. Um, growing up in Kentucky is a very different world experience than, you know, now having lived in New York for 29 years. Your, your sort of relation to what hospitality is changes on a day-to-day basis, I think. So I find it very hard to define.

But just being in here in this space, I mean, this is the definition of hospitality. The fact that Joe offered us water when we came in, you know, made sure we didn't need a bathroom, and the fact that it's all set up and so easy to just record in here. I think one of the things I can say is, frictionlessness.

You know, that you can come in, check into [00:05:00] your hotel, check into a restaurant, and it feels frictionless. I think that is a key point of hospitality. And it's something I strive towards so that when I'm thinking about hospitality in relation to our clients and who we work with, you know, how do we make this less, you

Drew Stewart Video: create

Dan Ryan Video: less

Drew Stewart Audio: for

them?

it is something that preoccupies every bit of my head

Dan Ryan Audio: every day.

So let's start there on friction or being frictionless. So

as a manufacturer of custom

Drew Stewart Audio: furniture,

Dan Ryan Audio: we spend so much time obsessing over the process and evolving the process so that from your perspective, it's frictionless.

Right. Many times it's possible. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes there's just, like, a challenge we have to get through. Right. And we're doing one small part of the huge project that you're doing. So when you think about redeveloping Rock Center, where we're sitting and, and working on the, the whole main concourse and under-- It's underneath down there next to the-

Drew Stewart Video: us.

Dan Ryan Audio: underneath.

It's awesome. Like,

and

working with Tishman Speyer, who's like, they have a gajillion square feet of [00:06:00] commercial space in the world- Mm-hmm ... and it's such an iconic place. How do you, with

your team,

set up the kickoff of that and then throughout the entire process, make that as frictionless as possible? Like, how do you gear

Drew Stewart Audio: yourselves

towards

that?

I mean, we're always trying to imagine the problem. You know, of course we always get some kind of brief, some kind of proposal process. But even after we get through that process, we still step back and try to start back with a, you know, blank slate, and then step back in and reimagine all of the challenges that we're gonna face in, in whatever the new thing is.

And I think, you know, at this point we've completed six projects with Tishman Speyer. Um, we just recently opened the Atlas Hotel up Harvard's campus in Boston. Yeah, didn't know. Um, which, you know, again, just this amazing thing to have done both on Harvard's campus and Tishman Speyer's first h- first hotel.

You know, huge, huge [00:07:00] accomplishment just just to be a part of this

Dan Ryan Video: team.

Dan Ryan Audio: I was up there for an ILC event and actually wrote an article on this because they had a panel with Tishman Speyer, I think Harvard, and someone may- maybe from the Allston town something or other.

Yeah. And when you talk about friction, I can't imagine what Rock Center

must

have

been

like

with historic-

Right ... everything.

But-

My takeaway

from

that

panel discussion that was up there was how did, how did you get everyone aligned and keep the ball moving in the right direction? And

they said

it was

a lot

of group texts- Yeah

a lot of communication, but you were just-- There were so many cooks in that kitchen. Yeah. And the outcome was

so incredible.

Dan Ryan Audio: Yeah. Using that as a microcosm with so many different stakeholders,

how

do you tackle something

Drew Stewart Audio: like

this

at

Rock

Center?

every puzzle's different, you know, truly. And I think just to kind of step back and, and sort of, you know, [00:08:00] from the inception of our office, uh, w- we were trying to get ahead of that.

And part of it is the name is the mission. Um, you know, INC Architecture and Design is about incorporating the design disciplines, and since we are both architects and interior designers, um, you know, at, at the Atlas, you

Dan Ryan Audio: Marlon

Drew Stewart Audio: Blackwell was the architect. Um, and, you know, we were trying to understand his concept of, you know, what he was imagining for the exterior so that we weren't doing anything completely different.

I mean, we hate this thing that we call Frankentechture, where, you know, an architect has designed some, you

Dan Ryan Audio: crazy

Drew Stewart Audio: facade, and then, you know, we're asked to come in and handle the interiors. Um, and so first understanding what the in- initial conceit of the building was, 'cause there was already a building design there.

We were being brought in a little bit later than normal. Um, and so we were not only designing it, but we were playing catch-up as well. Um, and then, you know, the [00:09:00] Harvard and the whole ERC campus had a lot of sort of weight and gravity to what we were trying to pull off there because it is a campus that Harvard sees as being the sort of, um, a, a real generator of, um, new ideas and discussions and, you know, a campus of ideas, if you will.

Um, so what's the kind of facility that will, you know, facilitate those type of discussions or that kind of atmosphere? Um, and I think that's where we started with that one, um, with the Atlas. And,

Dan Ryan Audio: um,

you know, I feel like we got there.

But what was also interesting about that project too, is it was almost like a no man's land between Allston and Harvard Business School.

Right. And the athletic center and everything. Yeah. And I think Harvard's the oldest university in the United States. It was founded in, in the 17th century at some point. And- memories, ideas, dreams about

Drew Stewart Audio: what this no [00:10:00]

Dan Ryan Audio: land could be.

Mm-hmm.

It, there must, it must have been so competing. How do you... What was your experience of kind of being between all these different stakeholders and, and helping kind of percolate or distill a vision?

Drew Stewart Audio: I mean, the master plan was there. We had seen some of the other buildings that were being, uh, realized. You know, and it was, you know, I think six buildings being built more or less simultaneously, so it was an insane project. Um, and we were just a piece of that machine that was, that was happening. Um But, you know, I think when, when you sort of imagine the entire campus and that this is this central space where all the guests, all the, you know, speakers, you know, whoever might be participating in the conference that's being hosted would sort of bump into each other.

You're trying to facilitate those, those moments, those casual moments, as [00:11:00] opposed to, um, the, the central hall that was designed by Studio, uh, Gang. Um, so you know, everyone had their own little component that contributed to this campus, and it was just amazing to be a part of that, this sort of group of architects and designers that were building this singular campus.

Dan Ryan Audio: I, I wanna go out on a limb here, but from my experience, when I first met you 10 or 15 years ago, I don't remember exactly when, but I remember part of INC's secret sauce was how you would show the built environment, right? You were pretty innovative then- Yeah ... and still are in, in the rendered environment, right?

Yeah. And you came up with some secret sauce. I don't even know how to describe it. But the way that you could visualize and bring other people on board and he- help them what your vision was-

Yeah ...digitally

was pretty incredible. I can only imagine since I first saw that and was blown away by it, that

the

[00:12:00] entire

space has-

Yeah ... changed,

like, incredibly. How have you managed to keep your tech on top of that without getting, like, weighed down in that? Yeah. But still-- I-- And is it true-- So how did you manage to do that? But also, do you think that that innovation that you had then really helped create that alignment that we talked about with

Drew Stewart Audio: multiple stakeholders?

It definitely helped create that alignment. I mean, it is truly the sort of singular way we've done it. Um, and interestingly, you know- I mean- Gabe.

Yeah,

I mean,

it has

nothing to do with

me. It's all

Gabe. It's all Gabe. Yeah.

Um,

neither

Adam

nor

I

have

ever

opened

Revit.

But we have been in Revit. We-- as a studio, we've been working

in Revit

for

19 of

our 20

years.

Um, you know, Gabe has written white papers about,

you know, small

studio use of Revit, and, um, it's kinda made us this little big studio in terms of,

[00:13:00] you know,

what a 40 to 50-person studio can produce and, and put in front of a group of stakeholders. Um, and you know, obviously having Adam as editor-in-chief of

the

whole operation, it,

It creates these really strong narratives that gets either everyone is completely aligned for the vision, or, you get the folks descending, you know, dissenting, I should say.

pretty quickly you can sort of say

to the group,

you know, "Is this where you wanna take this project?" And, you know, Tishman Speyer has a big, you know, group of people that are all making decisions, and I think the reason why we've done so many projects together is we are able to kind of organize them and get them on the ship going across the ocean in the same direction, if you will.

Um, and that's been pretty successful for us in that both we can

Dan Ryan Video: sort of bring

Drew Stewart Audio: pretty, um, you know, thoughtful, rigorous visual decks in tandem with, fairly realized [00:14:00] spaces from almost the outset and you know, we're even working on some projects in Park City right now where in order to convince this group of stakeholders, we kind of started day one with fully rendered buildings

and,

using pretty innovative stuff new software that's coming out and changing on a week-by-week basis, honestly, at this point.

But it was enough in a three-week charrette to convince stakeholders to say "

like, No,

these guys can handle these three ground-up buildings," and all of a sudden, you know, we had been awarded that project. And again, all due to Gabe, um, and in terms of what he brings to the studio. So I think it is that sort of set of tools that we've been sort of, um, progressing over the last 20 years that has allowed us to sort of stay ahead of the technological edge and not being bogged down by technology, but as opposed to like being able to sort of push it forward and sort of

Dan Ryan Audio: let go of things that aren't working.

as I get older and grayer, more and more of my-- not many, but there's a few friends in our industry

Drew Stewart Audio: that have been

Dan Ryan Audio: into Interior Design Hall of [00:15:00] Fame.

Mm-hmm.

Drew Stewart Audio: yeah, what was it like when you found out?

Dan Ryan Video: out?

Drew Stewart Audio: it was an awesome moment. It was an awesome moment.

And I

feel silly

now because, you know, Cindy reached out. She wanted to set up a call just to check in on how we were doing. you

know, it's,

it was in that sort of post-pandemic moment where that was just happening. Like, "I wanna hear how you're doing." And we had just had these calls, I would say once a month, with various people.

Like, "How

are you

doing?" And,

I'll never forget how caught off guard I was by it, because there were years where it would get hinted to me that, "Oh, you're gonna... It might happen soon." And, and I was, "Oh, you know, that we might be inducted soon." You know? Like, after we opened 1 Hotel, and TWA, and all those various projects, it was always in the air.

And then I think it's

like to really

get something,

you have

to

kinda

give up on it

for a minute. And I, I don't... It's not that I gave up on the induction or anything, it's just that I stopped thinking about it. And as soon as I stopped thinking about it, that's when she set up the call.

Dan Ryan Audio: Um, [00:16:00]

and

I did start crying

at the end of the call.

Oh, you did? Oh, yeah.

Drew Stewart Audio: was was she on the line or did she come out

and then you- Yeah, yeah.

She was... Well, I don't

know if they

could

see, '

Dan Ryan Audio: cause

of

course it was a Zoom

Drew Stewart Audio: Were you with- ...

Zoom call. were

you with,

Dave and

Adam

or were you guys separate? Uh,

it was just Adam and me on the call with Helene and Cindy.

Dan Ryan Audio: Did you collapse onto A- Adam's shoulder as, as your tears wet

Drew Stewart Audio: he, we were, we were different parts of the office- okay.

but we did hug later. We did hug later after we, um, after we found out. But, you know, he was at his end of the office and I was at end of the office, so

Dan Ryan Audio: You mentioned the TWA, um, 1 Hotel Brooklyn. Rock Center, Harvard, Kimpton here. I'm-- Whatever.

There's, there's so many in- Yeah ... this book here, which we're gonna get to. So many of the projects that you've worked on- Mm-hmm ... like they're paradigm shifting. Right.

Drew Stewart Audio: Right? To

Dan Ryan Audio: that's freaking crazy.

Yeah.

you do these projects, they kind of lift the datum on what's possible, what's not, how [00:17:00] people think about susta-sustainability or working in a arc...

historically significant sites. Right. Um, and it-- they're game changing. If you went back in time, could you share with anything-- or is there anything that you could, like, recreate a map of how you got to working on these projects that are paradigm shifting for our, our industry and hospitality I anyway?

Drew Stewart Audio: Yeah. I will say that in our 20-year anniversary, I've been doing a lot of reflecting.

Um, and you know, I've even asked AI, you know, "Where do we sit in, you know, the United States in terms of firms?" And give me an unbiased, unvarnished, you know, take on, you know, where is INC in terms of our, you know, how do, how do, how should we see ourselves? Um, and it said, "You're in the top 1%." And I was like, "Oh, I think I'm getting, you know, a bunch of AI [00:18:00] slop here."

Mm-hmm. But, um, you know, in some ways the success has far exceeded anything I ever imagined when we were, you know, sitting in a bar, you know, 20-plus years ago trying to think of a name and trying to figure out how we were going to, you know, set up an office. Um, so in some ways it's, it's unbelievable. I mean, it's kind of astounding that this has happened in this particular way and, you know, there's a lot of people I owe for believing in us and trusting us, and I think, um, our reciprocation of that is, you know, giving something special back in terms of our, uh, you know, what we get to deliver.

Um, and yeah, being attached to these projects, um, you know, it been career defining.

Dan Ryan Audio: And industry reshaping. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

I know you keep bringing up your team, and you didn't do it alone, right? We-- None, none, none of us [00:19:00] do anything alone, right? We all-- I, I always say this, is we all stand on the shoulders of those before us and, and the shoulders of those around us. Yeah. Right? And when I look at the title of your monograph, "Us is More"- Right

it's clearly

there.

But I also-- Us, to me, I'm thinking, like, a lot.

Yeah.

But when I also see this and I think of art, and I don't remem- I think it was--

B-

I don't know if it was Picasso or somebody who said, um, you know, you just keep taking away from something until you know it's done, right? And so when I see us as more, I'm also thinking less is more.

Right. And it's like, how do you know when things are finished? Right. Clearly, all of you are not finished. Right. Tell us how us or more is helping you guys think about your future.

Drew Stewart Audio: there's a reason why, again, 20-plus years ago when we were sitting in a bar, um, trying to figure out what the firm name was gonna be, you know, we pretty soon we were like, "We're not gonna have our names on the studio door."

I think that's something that we thought [00:20:00] was just not appropriate for this firm we were envisioning, and that we have always envisioned a sort of plurality behind, um, our work, and that it was never to be done by the sort of single auteur or creator, and that, it would come from a collective thought process.

And I mean, the team is everything. So both having a sort of, you know, semi-generic name like Ink Architecture and Design, um, you know, which still, you know, we've found meaning in that. But also just maintaining that as a part of our, you know, a value system for our office. I mean, I think it's easy to say, and I think a lot of firms try to say this, but, you know, anyone could sit in one of our meetings and see that the most junior person participates as much as Adam does, you know, our most senior person.

So, that has been

one of our

defining tenets of, of how we've operated. Mm. And I do think that, you know, [00:21:00] getting to be in New York City with the kind of diversity that we're able to, to capture here and the voices of that diversity is kind of a defining trait of, you know, be- getting to be based here.

Um, and sort of channeling those voices and all their ideas, um, is kinda

what's made

Dan Ryan Audio: special, you know, and made the work special.

I know you've mentioned sitting in a bar trying to think of the name. You just mentioned the name- How did you come up with the name? What does it mean?

Drew Stewart Audio: the name is the mission, incorporating architecture and design, so INC Architecture and Design.

And then the initials INC are very hard to file with-- as a corporation. Uh, they won't let you, so it had to be abbreviated. And INC stands for incuditas, necessitas, and creo, which is joy, utility, craft, which are Vitruvius' tenants of architecture. And so each of, you know, the founding partners have sort of adopted one of those traits.[00:22:00]

So Adam is incuditas, which is joy. Gabe is necessitas which is utility. And, I am creo, which is craft. So, um, it sort

of follows

the project through all the different phases of a project., And, you know, and I, again, you know, the idea to not separate into three distinct studios, I think was part of those initial discussions, and that we had all these, like, deeply asymmetric talents.

And, you know, I couldn't have started a firm by myself. And I don't wanna speak for Adam or Gabe, but, you know, the fact that we are able to augment one another's talents in this very particular way is something that we've kind of passed down. So, like, we have a team of directors. There's eight of them, and they all have sort of adopted specific qualities that allow them to also complement each other and also sort of fit within their own sort of matrix that they operate in.

So it's been a really nice tool, and it kinda sort of lifts some of the burden of, you know, [00:23:00] you being the sort of singular focus and the attention of a project. So,

Drew Stewart Video: that

Dan Ryan Video: sort of shifting

Drew Stewart Video: is

Drew Stewart Audio: nice. And that's to the us and the we that you keep saying, right? Yeah. And, and, uh, it's also interesting 'cause you're-- I always

find that

you're very,

um-

loathe to say I.

And, uh, or, and if you do, you always

correct

yourself.

You're Oh,

shouldn't have said that." it's really- it really is we. And I ap- I appreciate that so

much. And the

reason why I'm sharing that too

is

the Kimpton era, which is right around the steps from here, it's the biggest Kimpton in

the world.

If

you went back in time to where you, Adam,

and

Gabe

were in

the bar

...trying

to figure

out the name, could

you imagine

working with Extell, who's like redefined the New York City skyline so many

times,

and then they

have...

We're, we're gonna do a room tour there on November 7th. You have a family commitment.

You can't be there. But you don't need to be there- Right ... your team is so

freaking good. Yeah. you

imagine [00:24:00]

if you had that opportunity

20

years

ago-

Right ...

Dan Ryan Audio: think that you

Drew Stewart Audio: couldn't

be

there?

Yeah. And you know, that's-

Shout out to Hillary.

Yeah, shout out to Hillary. Um, you know, Hillary and Tyler had been with us for, you know, all 17 years, and so we made them partners three years ago.

Best decision we've ever made. And, you know, Hillary really ran the Kimpton project, obviously running it with Adam. But, you know, it does allow a certain flexibility, and it probably came from the fact that, um, my parents were all in the medical field and always on call.

Dan Ryan Audio: And

Drew Stewart Audio: not having to, like, bear the burden of the, the beeper going off, uh, you know, probably had some deep, you know, recessive

Dan Ryan Audio: thing in our minds when we were, when we were forming this, so.

that's a, just such a testament to the team and the us you keep talking about, right? It really is. And I don't know, I've just seen that you've invested so much in your team and built an incredible team, that it's just so cool that you could do that. Yeah.

Drew Stewart Audio: Yeah. I mean, we were gonna miss [00:25:00] you. And we jokingly, we were gonna say,

Dan Ryan Audio: were saying we're not gonna invite you.

Drew Stewart Audio: But ... it's all fair. But I do get to see my son be in his last musical of his senior year in, in, in high school,

Yeah. is more important than anything,

Dan Ryan Audio: right? Yeah. I know you grew up in Kentucky, you worked

in restaurants.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Now

you're

designing and building restaurants

and hotels

and offices

and

everything that you

could

ever imagine.

Yeah.

you're

also-- L- when I last spoke to you, you were very struck and taken by Will

Drew Stewart Audio: Guidara's "

Dan Ryan Audio: Hospitality."

Yeah.

A

former

guest

on

this

show

as well.

Yeah. I mean-

w- yeah, what is it that you love about what he created in that book?

Drew Stewart Audio: I mean, I've been a Will Guidara super fan for a long time. I've even-- I pitched on a restaurant when, when he and Daniel were looking to do, um, another new restaurant that I think ended up not happening. But, you know, when Unreasonable Hospitality came out, I think I picked it up immediately, and it was because I, I accidentally or [00:26:00] coincidentally bumped into him actually coming out of a meeting here at Rock Center on one of our initial design pitches.

And I think, you know, he was there to start talking about, you know, new ways to bring hospitality into the Rock Center complex, which I'll just give this one little thing, which is amazing. When you show up, you don't really check in a desk. They say, "Hello, Mr. Stewart. You're going to six."

Dan Ryan Audio: And they just

Drew Stewart Audio: escort you to through the elevators, and they put you on an elevator to

six. Frictionless. Frictionless. I mean, and it is magical. And I, you know... I don't know if Will had anything to do with that, but it is amazing when you have a meeting here, and they know

you're coming

because it is, you know. So I have been a super fan of Will's for a really long time and have even gone to his, um, Unreasonable Hospitality Summit in Nashville,

which is a two-day thing.

And you

know, and I think

every aspect

of

our lives

could use

a little

more, you know,

hospitality,

if even

hospitableness.

Mm-hmm. Um, 'cause we're in a pretty [00:27:00] chaotic wor- world, and it, you

know, like,

all

those things start to either weigh you down

or lift you up.

And, um, I think Will's philosophy is, you

know, finding

little magic

Dan Ryan Audio: you can lift other people up.

And,

you know,

that's

what

we

try

to

do.

Well, to me, my big takeaway from that book is Every single... You talk about fri- frictionless in a business, let's just say.

Yeah.

Yeah.

If you were really to wr- take out a big white piece of paper and,

Drew Stewart Audio: and

Dan Ryan Audio: pen and, and document every single time

.....................you interact

with a client or a stakeholder in a project, there are so many missed opportunities- Mm-hmm

to think about how you can deliver hospitality there, Yeah and ultimately lead to a frictionless experience.

Yeah,

I mean, completely.

Drew Stewart Audio: Like, what was the big takeaway from going to that summit for you at Ink? how much we're doing right. Yeah. You

know, it's...

There's a lot of stuff that's

just reinforcing

of things

that

I've

been

implementing,

you

know, since

I

first read the [00:28:00] book.

Um, and that, you know, I don't want them to feel as though they're sort of being done in sort of shallow ways,

that they're

actually, like, genuine

and heartfelt.

Dan Ryan Audio: Mm-hmm.

Drew Stewart Audio: Um,

but

also just, you know, just stepping back and looking at our overall process and find- finding ways to make them more frictionless. Which we are working through, you know, week to week,

month to month.

Um,

you

know, which

really involves, like,

what,

what

are the

client's, what are this client's feedback, and really trying to

hear that

and

implementing

Dan Ryan Audio: practices,

you

know, all throughout

the studio.

I wanna go into book now. So we're all busy-

Yeah.

m- running businesses, having families, doing all these things. How did you and your team, and I don't know who the team was. Was it, was it everyone or was it mostly you, Gabe, and Adam?

Drew Stewart Audio: No, no. I mean, this was, I mean, Hillary and Tyler ...really sunk their teeth into this thing. Okay. Um, Hillary is a great [00:29:00] writer and she and Adam really dug in on a lot of the writing aspects of this.

And it's, you know, we, we brought in outside

Dan Ryan Audio: but just sort of making sure that everything was, like holistically written. Mm-hmm.

Drew Stewart Audio: And

you have so much

great imagery.

Yeah.

Did

you

reshoot

everything

or did you- No,

no. Um, but you know, there are some, there's some color balancing, you know, color grading- Mm

as the, as you call it in the, in the biz, um, I didn't know that was done. and Tyler, you know, as a, he's, he's, his, uh, title is brand director, so working with, uh, really talented graphic designers that Monacelli brought in. You know, Tyler really sunk his teeth in on

Dan Ryan Audio: graphic

Drew Stewart Audio: aspects of it and collaborating with, uh, graphic designers.

and again, just in the same way, in the same way each of our roles has a very particular, uh, aspect of, to a project, I would say Adam, Gabe and I each contributed in the way we always do. So

Dan Ryan Audio: really ran like

Drew Stewart Audio: a, a

Dan Ryan Audio: building- Wow ... You know, facade to interiors.

Okay. So

Drew Stewart Audio: there's firms that have been around for 20 [00:30:00] years Maybe they haven't gotten as many accolades as, as

you have.

Dan Ryan Audio: But it's always-- I think it's always good to step back and reflect- Yeah ... and have a... This is a tome. Yeah.

Right? Um, but much in the same way that after the call with Cindy Allen-

Yeah

you cried. Yeah. Like,

what was

it like...

What

was the impetus for

doing

this book,

And

Drew Stewart Audio: what

was

your

reaction

when

you

were

finished?

I'll tell you the first big mistake we realized was not doing a book at 10 years. Okay. 'Cause we had to cut out so much stuff to fit a book in 20. Yeah. We, we had a we were just, like, slashing and slashing this thing to get it to fit into our page count.

Drew Stewart Audio: Less

is

more.

Less

is more. Oh, wow.

Uh, so it is a, it is a tighter book. we just had the book launch two days ago, so it's all fresh in my head about what we were talking around in, in the panel at the book launch. But in, in large part, for me, I, you know, again, speaking for myself, when I was entering the profession, you know, 26, 27 years ago, you know, there were, there were [00:31:00] no firms represented in this way, and the f- and the book sort

Dan Ryan Audio: pays

Drew Stewart Audio: homage to Rem Koolhaas of his book SMLXL.

And so it's organized from extra, extra, extra small to extra, extra large. So it goes all the way from our product design to our largest buildings that we've done. and when I was in school, I was taking, you know, quote unquote, "interior design classes," even though they were sort of parallel tracks. You didn't have to take the interior design programs as an architecture student.

They were, they

became electives

when you wanted to take them, and I was taking furniture design classes. And Gabe and I were in school together, and they always offered that you could graduate with a dual degree, and he was one of the few that actually carried through with it. So, and for all three of us, it was just a deep interest.

And to reflect that in a book that captures individual furniture pieces all the way up to an entire building that, again, we designed from facade all the way down to furniture that sits inside of the building. [00:32:00] I just wanted this out there to show, hopefully someone younger out there will get their hands on this and say, like, "This is possible," because there is this desire for some reason to bifurcate the professions, that somehow architecture becomes this highly technical thing, you know, about, you know, facade crafting and waterproofing and, um, you know, mechanical systems, and that it shouldn't be this thing of beauty.

And, and just to re-engage them as a singularity- Yeah

Dan Ryan Audio: Yeah. in

one book, I think was

my desire

of,

of

the kind of-

You actually stole my next question there. Yeah. Because I was gonna say, imagine a young designer finishing school right now and picks up this book. What do you want them to get from it?

Drew Stewart Audio: I want them to know that- The professions don't have to have this schism, that it is, it is a spectrum. Um, you know, and just to revisit, you what we were saying, you know, because we are both architects and interior designers, it has also made us very good [00:33:00] collaborators. We work with, uh, an executive architect here a lot in the city, and, you know, at one point we were, we were co-pitching on a project together, and he confessed to me, he's like, "I just want you to know I went back and looked at our fees on the projects," and we've done five buildings with this firm.

And he said, "You know, we've never lost

money working with you

guys," which isn't the case with a lot of, you know, quote unquote, design architects. Mm. And that's because we know what they're going through because just as an example here on Rockefeller Center, we were the executive architect, we were the design architect, and the interior designer of all the aspects of it.

And, you know, we never wanna do something to someone else, you know, in terms of putting them in a bind in terms of egress pathways or, you know, some, you know, annoying fire code, um, that would cause a problem for, you know, some sort of inspection later on, you know? So having, you know, from all points coming to it with a, with deep empathy at both an architectural level, but even as a, you know, working with clients, you [00:34:00] know.

Everything

comes

Dan Ryan Audio: this point of deep empathy, so, you know, that is also part of hospitality too, I think.

A hundred percent. And again, I feel like you're getting into my brain and asking me what my next questions are because to go from mac- micro to macro, also, I, I think, now I can't remember exact- the exact introduction I did

for

you,

but I

think

it was,

uh,

an

occasional developer,

right? Occasional developer. Occasional

developer. So I have a picture of you with a hard hat and like a briefcase of cash developing something. But going from macro to micro on

the

occasional

developer,

what have you taken from these larger

Drew Stewart Audio: projects-

Yeah ...

as

you

work

on

your

own--

as

Dan Ryan Audio: work

on

Drew Stewart Audio: developing your

own

projects?

I

Dan Ryan Audio: I mean,

I will say the cash is all just wire transfers now. Okay. Um, there are no briefcases full of cash. And, and I would also say, funny enough, the project we have put capital into, and it was so that there definitely were not, not even hard hats worn on the site.

Okay,

I understand it's wire transfers, but

Drew Stewart Audio: when you're,

Dan Ryan Audio: when you're developing [00:35:00] and spending your own capital

Yeah You

still wanna keep the big vision, but it, is that helping? Is it, are you shortening

up

your,

your,

your

grip

there?

Are

Drew Stewart Audio: you

choking

up

there because- Yeah ...you're not

taking the

big

swing? I mean, you're still taking big swings. You're getting to sort of really tweak where the money goes- Mm-hmm ... when you're developing your own project. you get to sort of say, "Okay, we might use this window company to save a little money, but we can now put in triple-glazed windows because in that savings, we found a way to make it a little bit better."

you get to fine-tune the decision-making process and hopefully bring slightly better value. Um, but you know, we are

still architects

and designers, and there are moments when you, you, you do sort of a little mini splurge here and there just because

you have to

do of what's,

Dan Ryan Audio: quote unquote right"

for

the project

to-

Yeah

capture its

spirit.

I wanna keep going from micro to macro

Drew Stewart Audio: But I wa- I wanna- How do you- I do wanna say one more thing. I mean, I think, again, just having been involved in this sort of [00:36:00] upstate development project, you know, where we're building these sort of single-family homes, it does, again, as much as you think you're empathetic to the developer, once you've done it yourself, it does bring about a new layer of empathy of all the things that they're - Yeah

that they're struggling to, to do and pay for, 'cause I think you can look at it from the outside and think, you know, there's this unfortunate narrative that's out there in the world that, you know, just paints developers in this, in this, like, bad light, which is just really unfair, 'cause- Mm ... I

mean, literally nothing would get built without a developer.

I mean, affordable housing, whether people like it not, is all built by outside developers. The city has to

hire them. And then it's affordability, right? Yeah ... It's keeping

your

costs

in

line, right? And there are some developers that do affordable housing as not-for-profit entities, but, you know, even still, all things are built by developers, and even other companies that have equity still have to hire developers to help them figure out New York City.

So,

I mean, it

just

doesn't

Dan Ryan Audio: here. The city

Drew Stewart Audio: is too complex, [00:37:00]

um,

Dan Ryan Audio: without

that kind of

understanding

Drew Stewart Audio: of

the

sort

Dan Ryan Audio: nuances of

how,

what

it takes

to work here.

what you're just saying resonates with me in the sense that, you know, being a coach for entrepreneurs and being an entrepreneur myself, okay, what does being an entrepreneur mean?

Yeah, you can-- it means you can start and have a business. Yeah. Right? Or you could be working in a company and be entrepreneurial because it's all about managing, um, resources, right? And And

Drew Stewart Video: And

Dan Ryan Audio: a

small business versus a multinational, everyone is managing

their resources

to the best that they can- Right

to

be accretive

to all

Drew Stewart Audio: the different

Dan Ryan Audio: stakeholders, everyone, community

that

Drew Stewart Audio: they're

all involved in. Mm-hmm.

Dan Ryan Audio: Um,

going back to

that-

bar

Drew Stewart Audio: scene

with

you, Gabe,

and,

Dan Ryan Audio: and

Adam

Mm-hmm

As you're like, All

right,

we're gonna take the leap" How scary

was

that

for

you?

Drew Stewart Audio: And

then

Dan Ryan Audio: how

have [00:38:00] you

three managed

Drew Stewart Audio: to

keep

that

dream alive

someone else said this, and it was actually probably 10 years ago now, so we were probably 10 years in and- That

could've

been in

Dan Ryan Audio: first book.

Drew Stewart Audio: Yeah, it could've been in the first book, which we probably should've done. But someone turned a, another designer. We were on one of these hospitality group outings and they said, "W- was it scary?" And, and her response was, "It wasn't

scary because I had

nothing to lose in the beginning." Yeah. She said, "It's much more scary now."

And I really felt that because it only gets scarier once you know that, you know, 45 people are sort of dependent on me bringing in the next project and maintaining our, our revenue, goals. So the scarier part, it, it only gets scarier the further along

you go Mm-hmm

actually. So it was less scary then 'cause I always had the backup plan to go move back to Kentucky and live

in my parents' basement,

If, you know, the shit really hit the fan.

Do they have a basement?

Dan Ryan Audio: Yeah. Okay. good. It's very nice. It's walkout. Oh, [00:39:00] good.

Great. You

can see the farm from

the

Drew Stewart Audio: windows. Bluegrass. Yeah,

bluegrass. waving

in the, Mm-hmm the

in the, wind, in the breeze. So,

Dan Ryan Audio: it's all much more scary now. I wanna go back to the TWA Building because this actually-- That building in particular

just came up in a conversation I had or three

days ago, and it- When you approach that-

how do you... 'Cause that, you from an in- from the interiors, you blew the doors off that thing, and like it was the most photographed hotel for a really long time that I can remember. Yeah. And brought everyone back to like this go-go '60s- era. But how do you, how do you honor that structure, which was probably awe-inspiring- Yeah ... and then lost its way for a long time? How do you approach something so architecturally

significant in completing that project that you

you did?

Drew Stewart Audio: It's interesting to talk around because again, in this reflection around our 20-year anniversary, you know, the question [00:40:00] that came up in the panel the other night was what made you want to become an architect?

And I think I can now

for sure say,

say that it was George Lucas and, and Star Wars, and the kind of world that he created. You know, it's now approaching its 50-year anniversary. It will be my 50th birthday. I'm actually going out to Star Wars Celebration for the 50th anniversary.

Where is it? Uh,

it's in, it's in LA.

It's gonna be around the Lucas Museum, which just opened. Lucas Museum of Narrative Arts. And I think that the... We had these sort... We have these sort of two ways in which we work around a project, whereas at the 1 Hotel, we were doing the world creation, right? We got to create that world. Yeah.

And, you know, we got to build the brand deck that informed that world.

And redefined- a shoreline Yeah. and, and redefined Brooklyn.

I think [00:41:00] at my own core, it has been this idea of sort of world-building. and just to say what we got to do

TWA is

very similar to what we got to do here at Rockefeller Center, um, which is that we got to go into this world that has been built and then add a little seasoning if you will.

Enhance it, right? Because I think if anyone been into

Rockefeller Center pre our renovation, that space did not enhance what was up in the main lobbies that have all been historically preserved, that we're now sitting in here, right? This has all been historically preserved. Downstairs at the concourse level was not.

And so what we got to do downstairs was to actually make all of this seem much more purposeful and thoughtful by uniting all these sort of disparate lobbies into sort of singular space that you can now use to, you know, traverse subterraneously. Um, and I think both in TWA and Rockefeller Center, getting these sort of highly contextual [00:42:00] playpens to operate within is equally satisfying as the world-building we did, you know, out at 1 Hotel.

Dan Ryan Audio: Like, 'cause in that case, and I love the,

dichotomy between

ground

up new build-

Right ...

1 Hotel. Right.

Drew Stewart Audio: Right.

And working within an existing envelope, right? 'Cause there you got to mess with everything, core, shell, interior.

Dan Ryan Audio: Absolutely. But there you, you were very limited out at TWA. But also, I can't imagine how difficult it was to work within that envelope also, because it was all poured concrete and it's been there forever. Like, how do you--

Drew Stewart Audio: Well, one hotel, we got to define that all the concrete would be exposed and we were gonna use board form concrete.

And, you know, because that was a new building, that was, like, actually the coolest part. And actually, you know, shout out to Marvel Architects who designed the exterior. You

know, and

I went to

school really admiring Jonathan Marvel and his work. And then, you

know, there I

was in 2012 getting to collaborate with him and stand next to him [00:43:00] and bounce around ideas.

Like, what a cool room to be in. Yeah. And then to be in a room with Barry Sternlicht, and then he turning to us and saying, you know, like, "What about this?" And Jonathan, Adam, myself, you know, tossing around ideas

as ways to kind

Dan Ryan Audio: solve

the

Drew Stewart Audio: problems

he

was evoking

or challenges

he

was evoking.

Um, it was a really magical project.

Yeah. You know, like we pitched an idea that didn't really work

for the lobby.

Barry didn't like it. And,

Michael Van Valkenburgh's team was there. They're the landscape architect. And they were like,

"Well, what

if we took your lo- idea from the lobby and we put that on the roof?" And Barry was like, "Yeah, that's it."

And it created this really cool roofscape of these sort of what they call racking timbers that you can sort of occupy, uh, that mimics this thing

that happens when

you, when you log areas. The, the timbers sort of rack in the river. And now you can sit on those like bleachers, and they have this dual effect

of creating

an area for soil mass, so you can grow some really big trees up on that roof.

And there was just such a magic in that room.

And

[00:44:00] honestly,

we experienced the same thing here at Rockefeller Center where, um, when we

were pitching

to the team, they

Dan Ryan Audio: really

Drew Stewart Audio: surprised

that we came to them with a pretty

dark color palette, palette. They were like-- I mean, they, it was a very leading moment.

They said,

So

you don't want

it to be

light and

bright like an air, you know, like a airport concourse?" And we're like, "No. There's no real light and bright colors in any

of the Rockefeller

lobbies,

except

for

the one we happen

to

be

sitting

in.

but

this

is still

pretty

rich."

Mm-hmm. Um,

and,

you

Dan Ryan Audio: that's kind

Drew Stewart Audio: of

what

won them over on our pitch for Rockefeller Center was this idea that

the,

all

the ingredients

are here,

we

just

need to like

cook

a different

me-

you

know, meal downstairs.

I have a question 'cause I,

I

was

recently down

in the, in the lobby there d- in the lower concourse-

like, where you go onto the ro- uh, the ice skating rink. And it's a

very

dark

floor

from

my

memory- Yeah ...

Dan Ryan Audio: a

lot of inlaid

brass.

Mm-hmm.

Is that,

was that,

new?

Or- It was all us. It's all new. Oh, wow.

Drew Stewart Audio: Yeah. Okay. I thought that that [00:45:00] was existing, No and you had to build around-

it. It was a complete gut down

There was nothing remaining. I mean, all the restaurants were jammed up against the glass, so in

order to have

any

access to glass

prior

our

renovation,

you had to

book

a table

at one of the two restaurants. And the real idea was pulling those restaurants

away and democratizing access to

the

rink,

and

letting people move

in

and out

more

seamlessly.

Because of the brass, I thought was done back the day. Yeah. like where we're sitting-

this, amazing brass hinges

th- all this inlaid brass and brass hinges

and

catches-

Yeah ... hardware that's been

here

since

1930-

7. 7. Yeah.

That's crazy. Yeah. And

Dan Ryan Audio: just to, Hmm ......just

Drew Stewart Audio: to go back to TWA, I mean, we do sort of, we think of it as high-performance nostal- nostalgia.

You know, there was this idea in the 1960s, you know, the optimism, and re-channeling that optimism. You know, and we, we opened in 2019, um, just before the pandemic set in. And I think I can say that I was really feeling that optimism in the moment, and, you

[00:46:00] know, I think

the next few years made it a little harder to put your hands around.

Um, but I have visited the hotel, and I even stayed there a night before flying to LA. And um, you know, it holds up. It holds up. And I, you know, I feel proud that, again, we enhanced what was there. And one of the things that Tyler Morris said to us is, "Don't try to compete." You know, don't try to compete with the flight, you know, flight terminal.

You know, everything you need to do kinda needs to, you know, play second fiddle. And as long as we had that direction, we were happy to do that. So it was a very good lesson, um, in terms of, you know, don't channel Eero Saarinen's, you know, crazy geometric forms of the flight terminal. But let's reference his work he was doing for Ford- Mm

um, and the more rigorous restraint that he was bringing to a corporate workplace. Mm. So, um, you know.

And our first and last renovation of a baggage claim ever, which became ...an amazing ballroom.

You will never that. You'll [00:47:00] never do that again. Probably not. Run.

Hey everybody. We've been doing this podcast for over three years now, and one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability. And I'm just really proud to announce that our sponsor, BermanFalk Hospitality Group, is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.

Please check out their impact page in the show notes for more info.

Dan Ryan Audio: Barry- Yeah ... Sternlicht.

Drew Stewart Audio: Yeah

Dan Ryan Audio: Yeah. So some of my formative memories in in my career in hospitality is when W came out.

Right. And it was so exciting, and I don't know how he envisioned that. And I know people who were involved in the, in the launch of that, but it really changed the dir- trajectory of the hospitality experience. And again, he stood on the shoulders of those before him- Right Put a little spin on it, and it was very, very exci- like opening parties,...

craziness.[00:48:00]

Um, it was like the place to be. Fast-forward to 1 Hotel. Mm-hmm. Like, what was the-- 'Cause that was the fir- 1 Hotel Brooklyn was the first one, right?

Drew Stewart Audio: I mean, it was the last of the first three to open.

Okay. But we were the only ground-up, and our site was delayed about six months because we got hit by Superstorm Sandy and had to completely redesign the building. Okay.

Dan Ryan Audio: So you could've been first. But you, you were in the-- You were out of the, .........out of the gate- Yeah ... together. Okay.

So

but you were in there, and now it's grown and turned into and redefined sustainable and luxury and all these different things. Yeah.

Dan Ryan Video: Yeah.

Dan Ryan Audio: What was it like working with him and getting, and getting to the place where you, your visions aligned?

Drew Stewart Audio: I mean, again, career-defining, life-changing, all the tropes, all the cliches. Yeah. He is brilliant, truly. He could, he could walk into a room and see

Dan Ryan Audio: four

Drew Stewart Audio: things that we needed to fix, you know, immediately.

But also, like, really got in our corner on certain ideas. You [00:49:00] know, we pi-pitched, like, certain ideas, and the overall team was, you know, maybe a little nebulous in answering us, and he would come in and he'd say immediately, "X, Y, or Z, this is the right way to go." So the way he could walk into a room and make a decision, I just found truly inspiring.

And I will-- You know, shout out to Avrico and Meier Davis. We were all sort of in the weeds at the same time, and we would run into each other at events, and, you know, we had these kind of funny jokes like, "Did you just introduce Rope? Because suddenly we're having to incorporate Rope into our project."

And we had these kind of funny moments, and the joke between the, the three of us, you know, the three different groups, is that we all need, like, joint PTSD therapy post, you

Dan Ryan Video: Yes ... you

Dan Ryan Audio: You know?

Drew Stewart Audio: And then one other thing it's worth mentioning, which is that when Barry was sort of turning what was The Westin into the W and kind of redefining this idea of what hospitality was when he was launching W, he was working with Kemper Hyers- Mm-hmm who became our creative director at Starwood Capital, and he was amazing. And [00:50:00] also, um, Ave Bradley was also there, who became chief creative officer at Kempton, ......which is, you know, where

we are- And now- And now they're both together at

Aubaire. so,

you know, I will be lifelong fans of theirs and just owe them my career at this point.

Totally. Um, and, you know, having creative, thoughtful people across the table turns out to be the single most important thing about any project, Yeah. you

Dan Ryan Audio: know? Ave is incredible, amazing, like a hero of mine. And I

knew

her

before

I was

even in this industry-

Mm-hmm

which is crazy.

Yeah.

Um,

and then-

I don't

know. She's just always kinda

had an... You

Drew Stewart Audio: know,

there's

always

those

people

Dan Ryan Audio: your career that ha- kinda have-

look

out

for you.

Yeah.

And

vice versa.

She's

definitely one of those people.

Yeah, totally. She's amazing. She's a real force.

Drew Stewart Audio: Okay, so

Dan Ryan Audio: Us Is More- Yeah

coming out October 14th. Mm-hmm. 20 years in one [00:51:00] book. After completing

this, what's exciting you most about what you're seeing in the future?

the joke between Adam and me is it's, it's whatever our next project is, is, always the most exciting thing.

You know, where we're, what we're pitching on next. I do think I, I'm just in love with where the team is. Like, our team is just so amazing. Um, and the kind of speed at which we're able to, like, throw out ideas, you know. And it's always, the faster, the more resolved you can iterate to a a client group, the more impressed they are and the more, um...

You know, it's like you're all running the same race together. And we've just been doing some incredible s- things lately, um, at a, at a, at a breakneck speed that I never imagined. Awesome. Frictionless. Frictionless. Yeah. Well,

Drew Stewart Audio: I'm so happy to be a part of your journey. Yeah. I mean- And, uh-

You've been, you know, central to all of this in so many ways.

I mean, you've given me books that I've read that have [00:52:00] informed, you know, like, decisions we've made. you know, bringing traction into the office has been pretty redefining for us recently.

Dan Ryan Audio: and you, you've been a real friend.

I like to say that I like shortening people's journeys. Like, that's what lights me up more than anything. Yeah. That's why I'm doing all these podcasts, because I have this incredible network of being in California and New York City, and now Connecticut, and I've just met all these incredible people all over.

Yeah. And I wanna share your learning, your experience, and all the people that I talk to here with young designer who might pick up this book, Yeah More.

Yeah.

In stores October 14th. No, I- Cut

to cut to camera three. Yeah, yeah. No, just making fun of

it. But, like,

I-- Some of the best feedback that I get from doing

this podcast,

I do it once a week.

It's a

couple

hours a week.

It's my favorite couple hours

a week.

Yeah. But

when I'm at a conference or a trade show, and there's a student or someone earlier in, in their career, and was like, "Oh, you [00:53:00] interviewed that person, and it made me think differently about the path I was on, or made me consider

something differently,"

to

me, that,

that's

what gets

me

up

out

of

bed every day,

It's that impact- Yeah ... right?

Yeah.

And, um,

I

know

the projects that you've worked

Drew Stewart Audio: on

have

impacted

Dan Ryan Audio: industry and,

like

I said, shifted the paradigm in many cases. Yeah. And this book,

it,

it's

hard to summarize everything in

a book.

I

know

that, so

Drew Stewart Audio: this

has

just

been

Dan Ryan Audio: awesome

to be a part

Drew Stewart Audio: of

your

journey

in

some

small

way.

Well, thank you. I mean, you

have

been,

truly.

Drew Stewart Audio: Thank

you. Stop,

stop. No, no. Stop.

Well,

and

I,

I-- I

mean, I

do have a,

a genuine

compliment,

which is that,

you

Dan Ryan Audio: in

Drew Stewart Audio: architecture school, I think there was maybe one class on business development that we had to take, and it was... Sure,

you got all the

sort

of

basics,

but they

didn't really

teach you much.

And I

think

that

Dan Ryan Audio: meeting

Drew Stewart Audio: you, let's call it 12, 13 years ago, was

pretty inspiring

to

me

because

Dan Ryan Audio: it

never

Drew Stewart Audio: felt

like,

you

know, [00:54:00]

anything

more

than

a friendship.

Yeah.

And

Dan Ryan Audio: at

some point I was like, Oh yeah, he's

Drew Stewart Audio: got

this

company

that

does

things

for

the,

for

the

business."

Yeah,

that

usually

always

comes

second.

Right. But it was so-- The friendship so natural first. Yeah. And I really learned something from you, and that the friendship should come first. Yeah.

Dan Ryan Audio: I

didn't

understand that,

I

think,

until I met

you.

Thank you. And I, that's the other thing I feel is that I'm always gonna be real- Yeah ... with whomever, right?

And you too.

Real and s- maybe sometimes inappropriate.

Well, that's part of being real, right? It's like tapping into my inner eighth grade sense of humor. That's it. Uh, it, it really hasn't evolved since then, but it's... Look, we all wear masks at certain times. The more we can take off those masks and just be real-

Yeah

the better. Yeah.

Dan Ryan Video: Yeah. So.

Drew Stewart Audio: And sometime you'll read the inscription I wrote inside of your

Dan Ryan Audio: Yeah, it's brand new, so there isn't an inscription. No,

there is. It's, it's, it's written inside. You gotta find it. Oh, okay.

I'm gonna find it.

Okay. I'll thumb [00:55:00] through- Right ... on

the train

home.

Yeah. So

this has been incredible. Um, Joe, thanks

for this

space.

Shout

out to Tishman Speyer,

Rock

Center- Kimpton Ektel, Kimpton, IHG,

INC,

Hillary,

Gabe-

Adam ...

Adam-

Tyler ...

Tyler.

Everyone

at INC.

Um,

if people wanted to learn more

Drew Stewart Audio: about

you,

connect

with

you, learn

more

about

INC,

what's

a

good

way

for them to

get

in

touch?

, our website, inc.nyc, I-N-C.N-Y-C.

Um, you know, we're on, we're on all the socials. We'll put it

in the show notes.

And you know, you can always just send me

an email. Yeah. It's, right there on the webpage. Cool. The people who spam me sure can find it.

And then I'll sure to put a link to this in the show notes as well people- Yeah ...can click through and- and order it as well. This has been wonderful.

Thank you.

Dan Ryan Audio: Thanks for coming up with the idea do it here. Oh my gosh. It's so much better in person

Drew Stewart Audio: than over a call. amazing.

Dan Ryan Audio: I'm

so done with calls. And thank

you for the latte when you walked in.

[00:56:00] and I don't know what camera I should look at, Joe, but I will look at this one and just say thank you to all of you who tune in every single week, because I know th- these podcasts impact you.

If this changed your thought on hospitality or entrepreneurship or legacy or impact, please like, subscribe. And if you think that someone could benefit from listening or watching, watch this one, please pass along. We-- Even though we're digital and out there in the world, so much of the success of this podcast has grown by word of mouth.

So thank you, and we'll catch you next

Drew Stewart Audio: time.