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In Search of Catholic School Excellence
Exploring the programs, people, and practices making a difference in Catholic education. Join host Thomas Boles as we hear from principals, teachers, and innovators shaping the future of Catholic schools. Whether you're a leader looking for ideas or an advocate for Catholic education, this show is your guide to what’s working—and why it matters.
Be sure to check out the show notes, as each episode comes with a companion guide to help you implement the ideas discussed during the episodes.
** Transcript is automatically generated. Please excuse any errors.
Hi, folks. Welcome back to another episode. This week I am, uh, joined by Brendan Snyder of snyderb.com. He's a former administrator and now marketing, uh, guru for, uh, schools all around the country. I know he laughs when I, when I say something like that, but, uh, uh, he, he does a lot of good stuff, and is talking a lot about how our schools could be better at this.
Um, and I know it's a hard job for principals often doing this by themselves. So, um, that's why we got Brendan on the show today. Thanks for joining us again, Brendan. Thomas, uh, so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Well, m- uh, let's jump right into it. Um, when most of the folks who are listening here are, are
don't have a marketing team, right? They don't have, like, a group of people who are doing the work. Uh, they've gotta figure out a way to keep the lights on, uh, manage the folks that are under their care, and then also they're supposed to pitch the school, which that used to not be a problem. Yeah. Used to have waiting lists.
Uh, so it's a whole new beast, I think, for, uh, principals these days. So I guess where I wanna start is, uh, what are some of the things that you see that are, um, the greatest challenge, and maybe some of the lowest hanging fruit that folks could, could take advantage of? Oh, that's such a great question, and, and we could be here for hours talking about that, Thomas.
I- it's, um- I'm trying to think of the best place to jump in. Uh, I think the first one is, and this is where l- this is where this answer comes from. So, uh, I'm Catholic, have gone to Catholic school in my life. Um, do agree that back in the day, 'cause I'm old now and have gray hair- ... you know, there were, there were too many applications per seat, right?
Right. There were kids everywhere, money everywhere. It was less of a big deal. Um, th- as you suggested, that's not the case anymore. So private schools, who I primarily deal with, are slow to this. Definitely deal with Catholic schools, though. But Catholic schools have been even slower to this- Mm-hmm ... k- as you suggest.
Like, um, thinking about marketing, making it part of, well, even admissions, but then the marketing piece. So I think the first place to start is to acknowledge that the problem exists. Right. Yeah, right? Y- we have to name it, and we have to say, "Yeah, we, we need to pay attention to this." Um, and I think the second thing is, uh, and I'm thinking if you're the head of school or the principal or one of the administrators, is somebody has to own that function at school.
Mm-hmm. I- most likely, uh, if you're listening to this, you're not gonna hire somebody just for this role. I mean, that would be the gold star, um, to do that, but most schools are not gonna be in that position right now. But you've gotta have somebody own it, 'cause if nobody, or if everybody owns it, nobody owns it.
Right. And if, obviously, if nobody owns it, nobody owns it. And, and, and the problem is, is it's, it's super, super important. So that's where I would start. Yeah. I, I think there's, um, part of that problem is folks feel like things are out of their control. And I, I know this is around the country, but especially in our neck of the woods.
Uh, we, we've got less children than there used to be. Yeah. So there's this thing that, you know, there's just less kids and, you know, there's nothing I can do about less kids, and therefore there's nothing we can do to make our situation better. But I have to think that, in our diocese, uh, particularly, we've got 48 schools.
Uh-huh. Um, and there are, there seem to be plenty of, of, of kids Uh, to go around in those schools, maybe. But definitely in the area there seem to be a lot of folks who are, who are buying into even more expensive schools- Yeah ... or, you know, I, I can understand, you know, choosing a public school 'cause it's free, right?
Uh, even if you're, you know, maybe think that it's not gonna be so great or what- whatever your opinion of public schools might be. But the idea that people would be paying twice as much, maybe three times as much to not go to your Catholic school seems to be kinda crazy. So I think there's just, there's this feeling of a little bit out of, out of our hands, and there's not much we can do about it.
But I feel like there's still a lot we can do about it. Yeah, and that's a great ... You had did ... I, I just reminded that you had mentioned low-hanging fruit. Yeah. So that was a very, very kind way of you to get me back on track. That was, that was good. Here's what I would say, 'cause you're ... I, I completely agree with you.
Um, if I was thinking about low-hanging fruit and I'm an administrator at a Catholic school right now, um, the first thing I would do is look at our website. Mm-hmm. Um, and here, listen, I know the problems because I know that sometimes- Yeah ... the, the Catholic school website is under the parish. Right. Or it's a sub-domain.
I mean, getting technical, I know you ... By the way, when I s- I'm a geek, you're a geek. I, I use that- Yeah, yeah ... as a term of endearment. But this technical stuff- ... does matter, right? It does. So- For sure ... if you ... The first thing I would say is that regardless of that, make sure that you can control your school website.
Right. That's one. Two, This is, a- again, this is my opinion. Your school website exists for one purpose, to enroll new students. Mm-hmm. So let's talk about that a little bit. Um, first off, you're gonna say, "Brendan, what about current parents?" Current parents should be behind a password. Right. They should be someplace else.
Um, the, it's not your front-facing website. Two, if you're worried about alumni, I would argue that alumni are probably better served with, like, a LinkedIn group- Right ... or someplace where they're gonna be, and LinkedIn's free, I mean, for all intents and purposes, right? So do that. Yeah, great point. Three, um, you might be saying, "Brendan, what about donations?"
And, and look, I'm a recovering fundraiser. Did it, done, and I know that that's super important, but I don't know of anybody who just randomly found a website and gave, right? You- Right? It's like, "The Spirit moved me to give today." No, that's not how that works. Right. You have to have the function to give, the button to give, the, the payment processor, all that, but it, that's someplace else on the site.
Yeah. It's for prospective parents. So w- if you, if you believe what I'm saying, through that lens, I want you to go to your website and channel a prospective parent, and think about looking at your website. Mm-hmm. And, and my guess is that your website's gonna be for your current families- Yeah ... or thinking about current families.
So that's one, is look at the web. The second the second thing, and this becomes more difficult, but you had mentioned 48 schools in the, in the diocese, right? Or something. Mm-hmm. Right? And we've seen it too, um... Well, and I don't know if you guys have had this. So I'm based in Pittsburgh, and Pittsburgh had the, the Church Alive, and the consolidation, and the- Mm-hmm
the stuff, right? But I think you, as a school, especially if you're the principal, you need to sit down and figure out what makes your, your school different. Yeah. And I think that if, if you say faith, you're gonna lose. Right? Because, um, I'm not diminishing the faith. I know that's an important part of it.
But does your ... Do you, do you, um, I was gonna say manifest. That's not the right word. D- d- do you come at faith a little differently, or the way you think about it? How does it inform your curriculum? How does it inform- Right ... I mean, I know that there are tenets that we all adhere to being Catholics, but, like, where does that fit?
Um- Yeah ... does your pedagogy, is it different than other schools even though faith is a component? Yeah. Is it athletics? Is it arts? So, like, where back in the day, you know, you're the church ... Like, you're associated with the church. You just ... Parents sent you there. You just went there. Yeah. That's not the case anymore, for lots of reasons.
Um, so I think if you can ... What I'm saying is, you have to put a flag in the gr- ground of what makes you different. So true. Um, and, and trying ... And if you're, if you're the head or, or, in charge, you can start to have those conversations. Because here's where schools struggle with this. They try to be all things to all people.
Yeah. And they ... That's a fail. Can't do it. And here, here's the struggle. By putting a flag in the ground and saying what you stand for and what you believe, that's also saying that we don't do this. Right. And, and most schools are like, "Oh my gosh, that's not, that's not- ... Oh my gosh, that's like sacrilege." No, you don't do that.
That's okay. Yeah. That means you're gonna attract the people that you want to, and those other folks are gonna find places that are better fits for them. Yeah. Well, it doesn't necessarily mean that you don't ... Like, so I can think of a school who is ... You know, they really wanna ... They are so good at the arts.
Like, incredibly good- Yeah ... performing and fine arts. Just, uh, top-notch. But they don't wanna be seen as not a STEM school, and so they're like, "Well, we- we're good at that, too." And so they, they won't embrace this art thing that would make them so unique in the entire diocese, uh, because they're worried about, you know, losing that STEM side.
Doesn't mean you're horrible at those things. It just means that, like- Yeah ... this is the thing that we do a little bit better. And that, I think that's okay. Uh, because what, what I see, to your point, is, um, everybody wants to use the same web designer for their website, right? Yeah. So they see each other's thing, they're like, "Oh, well, we should use them, too."
And then, a long, a long time ago, and I don't know if it's still the case, but you know, the diocese had pushed one particular marketing group. And so, like, everybody's using the same marketing group. It's like, how is that, ... Maybe that marketing group could do a Catholic schools are awesome campaign instead of this Catholic school is better than that Catholic school which is better than that Catholic school, right?
Because we're end up with the same thing. It's, it's all the same, and therefore there is no distinction. And so I ... As a parent, you're just like I don't know. I, I would kind of look at these things and go, "Well, what, what time can I drop off my kid, and what time can I pick them up? Do you provide lunch?" Like, it's almost like the other things are what become more important because everything else is equal.
Yeah, I can't say it any better. I'll just add. Um, the, the ... Oh my God, the website thing, we could talk for hours on that. Like, the, the, the ... Here's ... Let's get tactical for a second. Sure. Like, what can we do? Is we look at a website. Here's ... If, if I see one more, like, drone video on the homepage- ... or big w- sweep of campus, I'm gonna throw up.
And, and I don't mean to make fun of that, but, you know, people are selecting schools not because of the campus shot, right? Yeah. They're like, "Okay, great." I mean, I understand our buildings are important, but to a point. Um- Right ... here's what I think has to be on the homepage. A- and above the fold, so that means
It's like an old newspaper term, right? Right, right. So when, when the, uh, website first loads, the first thing you see, I think you have to have, um, who you serve and how you're different. Mm-hmm. And, and the way to answer that question is think of, like ... Okay, so I'm gonna go on a tangent and come back. You're the, you're the principal at school.
Walk into your next, um, administrative meeting and/or do this with your board. Mm-hmm. And say, "Okay, uh, I'm gonna walk ... Pass out notecards," and have them say, "I want you to write an answer down to a question I'm gonna give you. Don't write your name on the card, 'cause I'm gonna read these aloud, so I want it to be anonymous."
Right. "And here's the question: If you bumped into a prospective family in-" Say a grocery store's name. So I'm- Right ... I don't know the local grocery store's name. Let's just say Whole Foods, right? Sure. So you bump into your prospective family in Whole Foods, and they ask you why should they select your school over your biggest competitor.
And name that school. Don't leave it anonymous. Name that school. Yeah. Why my school over ABC Academy, why should they select my school, your school, the school you're in? Yeah, yeah. Have them write down that answer, and my guess is that if you... And then collect them, read 'em, read 'em. My guess is that if you have eight people in that room, you're gonna have eight different answers.
Yeah. And, and that's bad. You- you've gotta have a common thread there, and then that common thread goes on the homepage. So whatever that is. Yeah. So you're answering the question for your prospective families how you're different than the biggest competitor. Yeah. So, so that's a tactical thing. Um, what else did you say?
Oh, the art school thing, man. Uh, that drives me crazy. I was ju- I was having, like, PTSD thinking about it as you were talking about it. Because I think things like, you know, in police schools, get away from buzzwords. Academic excellence, and our faculty care about you. That, Come on, man. Everybody's does.
Yeah. You know, no disrespect. You'd hope we, right? Correct. Right, that's why we're in business. That's why we're there. That's the mission. So there are excellent faculty everywhere. Yours are not more special. I'm sorry. Yeah. Academic excellence is the bar, right? Yeah. Um, so the fact that they have that arts program, that's a differentiator.
I would lean into that hard. Yeah. And then you still talk about the other stuff. Yeah. Like, we still do this, and then for me, and I, and I hate to tie it to this 'cause I know it's not the point, but, uh, uh, like if they're a high school, look at the placements. Yeah. They're gonna have kids that are art- artists that go into STEM- Yeah
'cause they just like that- that activity, maybe they're not athletes or maybe they're both or, boy, I, I would lean into that hard. Yeah. Well, I, I would hope that we would be developing kids that are both. Like, I think about my own son, he's got all of those things. I wouldn't want him to not have the opportunity, right?
Yeah. And granted, he's not gonna be great at everything, of course. Uh, d- I'm definitely not good at, at fine arts, right? But, like, doesn't mean I, I hated art class, right? Like, I wanted, like, that to be real. And I- Yeah ... that's what we wanna be able to provide. So I think it's okay to go after improving your program across the board, but I think you gotta lean into something 'cause otherwise, who's gonna, who's gonna be left when, when it comes time to start consolidating?
The high schools in our area did this about, uh, 30, 40 years ago. 40 years ago, that's crazy. Wow. Uh, about 40 years ago they consolidated. There used to be, like, 20, now there's three. Um, and, or I guess maybe four. Four schools now. Uh, point being is a whole lot went away, and so we, we kind of feel like maybe we're on the cusp of the beginning of that with the K through eight schools, right?
Yeah. But so, like, what's gonna make that difference? Like, who are gonna be those that survive? And I, and I hate to do this, like, survival of the fittest thing, or to pin them against each other, because I feel like it's more of a we should be working together, uh, to identify those strengths as a group. And, you know, let's promote that with that one marketing agency.
But as an individual school, that you've just gotta have something that, that means something. And hopefully it means something to your staff, that they believe in, like, "This is who we are. This is why, this is why people wanna come here." If they f- truly believe that, then that's great. If it's just a bunch of buzzwords, as you said, you know, what kind of conviction do- can you get from folks, and that's a big selling point, too. Well, I'm so glad you brought that up 'cause y- you hit the nail on the head about two, well, one point and then one point that I go on about. Um- Back to that exercise, those eight people, eight different things, we're gonna decide on our thing that makes it different. If you have to pressure test that with the faculty.
If the faculty don't believe that, they will actually work against you. They'll fight you. Yeah. And I, you know, I'm, again, I'm ... It's just fact. Yeah. It's just fact. They, it has to be, um, authentic to the school. So check that. Mm-hmm. Here's another exercise that people can do, um, if you're trying to figure out, you know, what that thing is.
So, um, if you're the principal or somebody at school, identify new families to the school this year. So again, they've been here now, pretty good clip of the school year. Right. But identify some new families. Um, families that you would like more of. Mm-hmm. Let's call it what it is. Maybe they're full pay.
Maybe they're from a neighborhood that you want. Mm-hmm. Maybe they whatever. Um, identify three or four of those families, and ask them if you could interview them. Mm-hmm. You're doing marketing research, just internal marketing research. Sure. So I would suggest, um, y- y- this will make sense in a moment.
You'll have to record it. So whether you're gonna do it on Zoom, or you wanna meet them for coffee and r- and ask them if you can record the audio. Mm-hmm. And a- ask all the families the same questions, right? You can think about it like, "How did you find us? Who else did you consider? What was ... What, what stuck out, uh, for our school versus our competitors?"
You know, all those things. Yeah. "What could we have done better? How did you find the website? How was the admission process?" Ask all those things, and then the key is take that transcript, drop that into AI, and have it synthesize, and come up with common themes, common messages. Mm-hmm. And then what you wanna do is take those messages, if they resonate, that goes on your website.
Sure. So that the gold star is the other families you're trying to attract are gonna read the website and, and you're gonna use that same language, and the families are gonna go, "Oh my gosh. They're, like, speaking right to me." Exactly. That's the loop. Yeah. Yeah, and I, I think that plays into the idea that, you know, every school wants everyone to drink their own Kool-Aid, right?
So they feel like they've- ... they're, they've already done it. Um, but no matter where you think you are, whether you're at, uh, 20% or you think you're, like, 80% of, like, the place where you think you need to be- It's, it's not that, it's not... Oh, I guess it is hard, but it's, it's not that far to try to get 1% better, right?
So to- Yeah. Yeah ... to take some of that feedback and put it back through the loop again, and through the loop again, and again, we can just get closer and closer to that goal. Yeah. Uh, I think it's, I think that's a really easy thing to do, and something that should just be formalized, right? I can think of, you know, at this point, kindergartner families come in, typically, you know, more than half are new, and so they've gotta go through, like, fingerprinting.
You do all these things, and then, like, you know, you get through a few months where they kind of feel comfortable, and you've, you've kind of got through that initial feeling, um, of, you know, do I feel welcome here? Do I feel like I got the routine down? All that kind of stuff. And then you have that conversation again, like, "Hey, kindergarten parents, let's talk to, you know, you again."
Or sixth grade parents, and they transfer in from the public school. Like, it's a great opportunity to have those conversations and to, um you know, keep that dialogue going that you can keep improving. Um, I just, uh, was talking to, um, a colleague, uh, Erica Bryant. She has this thing, it's called 30 Coffees where you're, you know, you go and try to have 30 coffees with people and just talk.
Talk about your business. It's not a sales call, it's, um, you know, you might be talking about something you have in common much like we're doing now. Yeah. But uh, the whole idea is like if you apply that to your school and you are gonna have conversations with folks, like why couldn't that just be a part of the regular process, right?
Yeah. So you have this like big formal thing, but also like, "Hey, let's sit down with that family who's been here a while," or who came back or, you know, there's, there's something, there's, there's certain folks that you can probably pick out that makes sense for let's have a revisit to this, these, these questions.
Absolutely, and I love the 30 Coffee idea. You know, the other thing, although we're talking marketing, but there's also external marketing and internal marketing. Yeah. So one of the things, you know, I'm a former admission director. I used to say all the time, it's much easier to re-enroll a student than enroll a student.
Sure. So having those coffees, being, uh, aware of retention issues, quite frankly that's probably where the school should start. Yeah. Like, what's their retention number? Or, you know, s- said the other way, attrition number. If- Mm-hmm ... if you've got a leaky boat, start there. Yeah. Because you gotta keep the families that you've h- you have.
Um, those coffees, having conversations, surveying families, um, is a great place to start to do that. Yeah. Yeah, and if you think about the, the old problem used to be, you know, we were graduating 30 8th graders, right? And w- are we taking in 30 kindergartners? That was the old problem. Yeah. But now it's like I might be losing those 30 8th graders, I might also be losing 30 other kids in the school- Yeah
and I'm only bringing in 15 kindergartners, right? So we have this kind of like rough cycle where like, hey, what happened? And, and I- Race to the bottom. Yeah ... yeah. I mean, I get the 30 8th graders 'cause, uh, especially in our schools, that's not always the same that you're, the class sizes aren't there. So whatever you're graduating, you just gotta try to re-feed back into the system.
But when you're losing folks along the way, and, you know- Now that we're past COVID, it's no longer they're moving out of state or they're- Yeah ... moving to, like, the farm or wherever they're moving. Uh, there's, there's gotta be something we can do, right? And so I think I, I love that idea of like, let's, let's start there and let's focus in on, you know, plugging the boat.
Let's make sure we're not sinking. Yeah, for sure. I mean, what, what we used to do is w- which is what you did. Our, our quick math was, okay, if you have 30... I'm gonna say graduating, right? Yeah. 30 8th graders graduating. You're, you know every year... So the, so NAIS, National- National Association of Independent Schools, the average is about, I can't remember, 9 or 10%.
So you take your school of, of, I'm gonna do easy math here, school of 330. Mm-hmm. You're gonna graduate your 30 8th graders, 10% is another 30. Yeah. So now you're what? 270. And to get back up there, I need six... You know, so- Yeah ... if you could cut that attrition number from 10 to five, wow. It's huge. Yeah. It's huge.
That's a... And, you know, not to be crass, but this is important. That's a lot of money. Yeah. And then the other aspect is that there's gonna be some natural attrition, like your p- people move out. Maybe a child was not the right fit. You can't serve the child from a learning differences need or whatever.
It's gonna happen. Sure. But it's those families that just should be there and don't remain, those are killers. Those- Yeah ... are killers. Yeah. I mean, and the flip side is when, you know, the year has started and you get, like, two more families that come in, it's like free money, you know? Yeah. Once again, you get two new kids, hopefully they're gonna be there for a while, but, like, that's such a big boon because you weren't counting on it, right?
Yeah. So, I mean, I think finding those ways to, um, obviously fix your system first- Yeah ... you know, in, in and out. You need to make sure that you're holding onto folks and you're bringing new folks in, but then, you know, how can we incrementally get better? And how can we not wait nine months to start that process again, right?
So it's like, oh, this year was a rough year. Well, okay. Well, we're in the middle of this year, like, why are we waiting till next year to try to get next year? The idea to me is if, if- By January we know that kindergartner families are X number of people. I feel like we've already missed the boat on something, right?
Yeah. Because, I mean, whether you're attracting those kindergartner families or not, if you're waiting to find out what's happening, it means you're not being proactive. And I don't mean disrespect to anybody who's trying, 'cause I know this is a hard job. Uh, I saw the, the writing on the wall when I was on my way to becoming a principal and said, "Nope, I can't do it."
Um, but what all I ever try to do is, is push, like, "Let's, let's try something. Let's ... What can we do," right? Yeah. And so I think just making those, those incremental steps, I think, is huge. And, you know, I love this idea of, of these two exercises where you're saying, you know, "What makes us different?" And see what, what people come up with.
Yeah. Or, "What would you say to a, a prospective family who was asking you about the school?" Um, and then the second one was .., The website. Think about the website. The website. Right, right. Right. How quickly can people figure that out, right? And I think those are two small steps, but, like, that's- I think a lot of people are still failing on just those first couple steps.
Yeah, and, and a- again, I, I understand that. I mean, this is stuff I think about all the time, I've been thinking about forever. Um, I'm weird like that. So, you know... And again, I know, uh, I thought I wanted to be a head of school as well, Thomas, and then I'm like, "Nope, stop." Yeah. But the... I know that's an incredibly hard job.
I know it's hard. And I know it's ver- it's very lonely. Yep. And you've got 75 things coming at you at once. But this is so important. Yeah. You know? And I would say that if you're not, um... If this isn't your strength or you're like, "I have no clue," you've gotta find a partner at school that can own it.
Mm-hmm. And, and, and, and, you know, take it by the horns and run with it, 'cause you've gotta... We, we need kids. We need kids- Yeah ... we need revenue to support the mission. Um- Yeah ... so it's, it's an, it's... You know, some people might view it as a necessary evil, but it's necessary. Yeah. Well, I... You bring up a good point about being alone at the top.
I think, uh, that's, that's so true. And having to have all of the answers. I think a lot of times what ends happening is, you know, we obviously, there's parents in the school that have many different, um, talents, and so you wanna try to use as much as you can. But I think it's also good to build relationships with folks at other places, um, especially if they're not necessarily your competitor.
I think it's good to be friends with your competitor. Yes. But I, I think it's, it's good to talk to other folks who are in the same position and just share ideas, especially if they're outside the area and you can kind of just get a different, um... You know, it's not your parent, it's not an alum, it's not somebody in, like, your backyard who has the same kind of view about what things are.
I mean, I, I love the idea of like, calling somebody else's grandma and saying, "Hey, what do you think about the website?" You know, not just my grandma, but let's call- Yeah ... somebody else's, right? Yeah. That there's just a fresh perspective. And so if you can, you know, align yourself with other principals, other administrators who are in your position and you can kind of talk about these things, I think that's wonderful.
Um, how else, um- I imagine you're, you're, you advise folks in, in doing this. How else can folks find that kind of common, um, common struggle and be able to share, share those struggles? Yeah. One other thing, so I don't mean this as a pitch, but like, we'll- and I'll, I'll, uh, unpack it. Um, I have something called the MarCom Society training and community for K-12 MarCom professionals- Mm-hmm
and enrollment professionals. In there, there's something we call masterminds- Mm-hmm ... where we take people from, from disparate areas or, different groups and, um, I'm sharing this so that whoever's listening can go steal this, and I'll tell you maybe how you can do it. So, so take ... 'Cause I mean, I didn't come up with the idea.
It's, it's a common thing, but it's, it's ... We call it the hot seat format. Mm-hmm. So let's say that there's six people in the group. I'm there and I facilitate. Um, so Thomas, you're in the group and it's your, it's your, we meet every three weeks. Mm-hmm. So you come to the group, and because you're in the hot seat, you bring your problems, your issues- Mm-hmm
things that you're struggling with. Um, everybody in the group, you're, you're in, you know, uh, the focus. We all answer- Yeah ... we all offer support, we all give ideas. And then if there's any other things, we talk about it, and then the next time someone else is in the hot seat. Mm-hmm. Um, what I would do is, is- That idea, like here's an example from that.
We had a woman come, it was her turn on the hot seat. She shared a concern, an issue she was having, real struggle. And everybody went around, including me, and I said, "I'm so sorry, I..." Everybody said, "We haven't figured it out either." Yeah. "I don't know what it is." And I told the woman, I said, "I'm so sorry we couldn't be of support."
She goes, "Brendan, the fact that this group, who I respect from all different places, all different experiences, can't figure it out actually makes me feel better." Yeah. "Because I know I'm not crazy." Yeah. Right? Like I, I know I'm not crazy, so we'll keep working and, and sometimes we talk about the topic as, as things go on.
You know, I would think about, I would find those people. Mm-hmm. Maybe they're on LinkedIn, maybe it's in a consortium that you're in, maybe find, um, so obviously there's the, the diocese, but is there a bigger structure in the state that you're in? Mm-hmm. Just to try to find some people that, that, um, like you said, aren't competitors- Yeah
but know the struggle. Like I say this all the time. My wife and I have been married for a long time. She doesn't know what I do and she could give two craps about what I do. So I share stuff with her and she's like, "Yes, dear, that sounds great." You know? Of course she supports me and loves me, but like she doesn't know.
Yeah. So she's like, "Yeah, man, whatever." Yeah. Um, so she'll always be, uh, an ear to listen, but i- it's nice to have practitioners, people that are s- doing the struggle- Yeah ... and, and being able to say, um, "You know what, Brendan, I have the same problem. I did A, you might wanna try B." Mm-hmm. And you're like, "Oh my God, that's fantastic."
So. Yeah, two new things, yeah. Yeah. We had a, we had an episode, uh, where we talked about having your, your personal advisory board, right? So obviously- Yeah ... the school structure, you've got the board. You've got the parent board. You, you might have an advisory board. But like you need something on your personal level that is maybe a little bit more informal.
Um, and whether you do something like you mentioned, a mastermind, something where you, you're p- you know, buying into something, or you're just collecting people who can represent- Yeah ... some different perspectives. Um, and ideally, um, in and potentially outside of that, like if you're talking about finance problems, uh, talking to another school official about that is probably great, but it's also nice to have somebody who's like just in finance who can go like, "If I was running a business, I would never do it that way."
Or like, "That's actually great. You've been doing it, you're doing exactly what we would do." Right? And I think having, pulling those people together and kind of filling the holes in your skill set, um, is great. And even having that person, the other two people on that, on those advisory board for yourself is the person who will always think you're awesome, when the day that you need like, "Today was a horrible day.
I need to go talk to that person who loves me." And then the person who will never agree with you- Yeah ... because, they can poke holes in things when you need that, too. So, um, I think that's a, it's a great deal, and obviously if you formalize it in a mastermind- Great. Uh, I think most people would, uh...
It's much better than counseling. It is. And, and I, you know, uh, one way schools can get started, and I've done this personally, is I use AI, and I have a strategic board of advisors. So I, I, um... And the way to do it, I mean, I have this long prompt, but I would say, um, help me write a, like help me write a pro- So it's meta.
You're- Yeah ... you're using the AI to help you write the prompt. Right. But help me write a prompt to create a strategic board of advisors, and then give it as much context as you can. Sure. I, uh, I have this role, I'm at this school, here's the financials, here's the enrollment, here's the stuff, here's what keeps me up at night.
Do a brain dump. And then, uh, I, I mean, Thomas, I have this, it's a, um... This one's in Gemini. It's a, it's a gem that, oh my gosh, like, and I have a, I have a finance person, I have a strategy person, I've got a- ... HR per- And they push back. Like it- I said in there in the prompt, like don't be, don't be afraid to push, don't be afraid to question, yeah. I don't always have great ideas. And it has been awesome. It does not replace, um, people can't see- Of course ... I'm pointing to you and me. It does not replace conversation, real-world experience like that, but it's, it's sometimes really helpful just to, you know, 24/7 ask a quick question and get some answers.
Be like, "Oh, okay. Try that." Yeah, that's a great idea. I feel like you're full of those. Um, you know, between your newsletter and then, following you on LinkedIn, you've got all kinds of- ... fun takes on how to do it. And I love how you call it together. But that's a great idea of, especially just before you even have that conversation, let me, let me just throw this out there, see if this makes sense.
Let me get some of that, that basic, , we've been talking about using AI with kids, you know, much like you'd want a kid to go through and like run a rough draft, right? So before you go and talk to your board, you've already played with this a little bit. You've played with the, the AI version, you played with your, , personal advisory board before you go talk to your actual board, and kind of poked holes in everything before you actually make, uh, a speech or a pitch or whatever it might be.
Um, so definitely a great idea. Well, we're getting kind of close here. Um, I already mentioned the newsletter. Um, I think everybody should sign up for that because that's just gold. Um, uh, there's no punches are held in the newsletter. No, it's, it's a great source of, of marketing and I think a reminder to, you know, keep the stuff in focus.
We mentioned snyderb.com. What else, what else can we share with folks? I, I... One, again, thanks for the opportunity. I would say, um, you mentioned already I, I love to play on LinkedIn. So just Brendan Schneider, find me there. Anybody from school, I accept connections. Um, so please reach out and connect. And then, um, I have a book.
I wrote a book called School Marketing the Right Way. Uh, a little cheeky title. It's on Amazon. And, um, if you're so inclined, I actually recorded the audio version of the book too. So if you like audiobooks and you can stand my voice, 'cause I read it- ... uh, you can do that too. So, uh, would love if people grab that.
Yeah. I actually, um, I am a guilty listener. Um, I have, I have the, um, actually I have, I have the print copy, but I listened to the audiobook first. Uh, and I- Oh ... I feel like it's a lot of practical good stuff, and a little bit about your story, which I think is cool. Yeah. Thank you. It was a labor of love. Um, and, and I tried to walk the line between workbook and strategy and th- 'cause I knew as soon as I wrote it, it would be out of...
Things change- Yeah ... are changing so quickly. So it's- Yeah ... I tried to straddle the line. And I, looking back, uh, sometimes I think I did it pretty well, and sometimes I would be like, "Oh, I wish I would've done that a little differently." But I still think it, I, I still think it's helpful. Well, you wrote it new enough that you weren't talking about MySpace or, uh I do.
I have, I have a chapter- ... on AI that I stayed very 30, 30,000 foot 'cause I know it's changing so quickly. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's great. Uh, but great book. I hope people check it out. Definitely check out the website. Um, and it, and, the, uh, the newsletter, LinkedIn's all free, so there's no, no harm in, in following that stuff.
Uh, Brendan, thank you for joining us. Uh, I appreciate the wisdom and the very simple, practical steps. Um, I'm gonna let you finish with one thought. Um, is there anything else that you would want somebody who's listening to this right now, like, what's the first thing they need to do as soon as they finish this episode?
Besides hire you? Uh, uh- Maybe they've already hired me They've already hired you, so it's great. Um, oh, that's... Wow, that's a good question. Out of all the stuff we talked about or something new? Um-
Honestly, the first thing I would do is figure out what your attrition rate is, plug the leaky boat. Now, now is the time of year. And, and reach out to every family that you think might be leaving, and have a conversation with them. Yeah. Yeah, I know, I know- That's the right start ... I know that the, uh, the, uh, requests for returning have already gone out, so this is probably just the right time to be, to have those conversations.
Have the conversation, especially if people don't, um, uh, don't turn their contracts in right away. Reach out, "Hey, got any questions? How can I help? What do you think?" You know? Yeah. The more kids you can bring back, then it, it's a springboard to everything else. Yeah, so true. All right, challenge has been issued, everybody.
Thank you again, Brendan. We'll, uh, hopefully we'll get together again and, and do this again. Yeah. Thanks, Thomas. This was great. Appreciate it.