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Cause aint nobody got time for Amateur's
Unknown Speaker 0:00
You're listening to local programming produced in KU NV studios. The content of this program does not reflect the views or opinions of 91.5 Jas and more the University of Nevada Las Vegas or the Board of Regents of the Nevada System of Higher Education.
Unknown Speaker 0:16
This is talking with the pro professional. This is talking with the pros with me just be I speak to the professionals in the world of audio to gain an insight into what it takes to become a pro talking with the pros. This is talking to the professionals in the world of audio definitely everybody has a valid experience people coming from different aspects of the production everything you have to offer I think a lot of it is interconnected a very collaborative effort you know, there's the behind the scenes there's the front and everything in between so really getting all of your experiences as a professional and how it relates to the world of audio everything does because at the end of the day if you're not hearing something then what what's the show? Yeah, you could stand on stage totally Yeah, but we're coming to hear and experience regardless of seeing somebody right right see somebody all day long but also what they have to offer so it's really audio experience
Unknown Speaker 1:15
you can't be a sound guy without the talent right without the singer without the the person in front cool thing about this is people aren't interested or getting people interested in audio they're doing you're also for their own production like for your own you know music musical endeavors. What's cool about Gabriel is actually knows all about audio all on his own. Like he studied this stuff like he does sound even when like sound guys aren't around. He'll like do the front of house. We'll do everything we do from the stage. But he's also a shredding amazing guitarist like he just is insane. We're
Unknown Speaker 1:46
so hyped to have you. As you can tell, we're really excited to talk to you. So thanks for having me worse. Awesome. Welcome, Gabriel. Thank you for being here. today. We're talking with the professionals. And of course, I'm joined here with my wonderful co host, Polly. What, oh,
Unknown Speaker 2:04
what's up? Let's make it happen. Yes, go.
Unknown Speaker 2:06
So Gabriel, I know you're an innovator, you're a visionary, you're a man doing the thing, in this world of audio a professional nonetheless. So take us into what it is that you do on a daily basis, which I'm sure is multifaceted. So yeah,
Unknown Speaker 2:25
I'm a full time musician. Primarily. I play guitar and keyboards, and I sing various bands and my main band being my metal band, immortal Guardian, the way I got into audio was just over the years getting tired of having bad audio, you know, either. There was no sound guy at the shows or, or the sound guy just didn't know much. He was learning like I was and then eventually, the frustration grows. And you're just like, I gotta learn how this stuff works, man, because it's just good to understand it all like artists,
Unknown Speaker 2:54
and you have a specific craft and you want to present your work in a specific way. Yep, yep, yep. So wanting to know how you can get your sound sounding the best and how you intended it so that the audience listeners can enjoy it.
Unknown Speaker 3:08
Yeah, my dad used to tell me all the time, because my dad is also a musician. And he was like, the first thing you do when you get to a venue is become best friends with the sound guy because you could be in the best band in the world, be super well rehearsed and everything. But if the sound isn't good, you're just gonna sound horrible, no matter what. It's definitely crucial. Like what Polly was saying, before we started, like, the talent of the musicians and whatever is being presented needs to be just as good as the actual audio. It's an ecosystem that feeds itself, that's
Unknown Speaker 3:37
for sure. Definitely an ecosystem something you guys are hand in hand together, working to craft and produce live bringing the audience to your music and the sound being best friends or friending or even just speaking to the audio guy is like the essential step one before you go on, just so that you're both on the same page. What do you I think
Unknown Speaker 3:58
the market now demands not only artists learn how to be artists and how to present their art, but they also learn the technical side at the same time. It's like you're learning how to be a producer how to mix audio, what is 44.1 what is 96k? Like you're doing all of this behind the scenes stuff that took multiple jobs back in the day also with Instagram, Tik Tok, YouTube, you're learning the behind the scenes, you're doing it all on your own in house, in your bedroom studio or on stage 1000s of people watching you and knowing those things just so fundamental to presenting your art in today's market. Because today's market the demand is just you need to know those things in order to overcome challenges, you know, presenting your art nowadays? Yeah, like
Unknown Speaker 4:42
as the years go by, I've definitely ramped up my video content. I've been making video content for like over 10 years and back in the day, every time I made a video, I had to hire an audio guy to help me mix down the song or whatever. And that was back in like the early days of YouTube. Now as content creators were forced to put So many pieces out per week, almost daily. And if I were to hire somebody for every piece I would not have I'd be super broke eventually one day same thing I was just like okay, I don't want to learn how to do this but I need to learn how to do this that's the the way today's market is like you're saying it moves so much faster. You got to have more skills on your plate in order to get it all done and I'm so glad I did at the time. I really hated that I had to learn all this stuff. But now that I get it you respect the yard you know how to do it now you save yourself tons of you actually make money doing it for other people, you know, if you if you want to, it's just really cool. I went full circle with like, hating audio to be like, Oh, once you get it, this is pretty cool. You know, it makes it sound even better. Okay,
Unknown Speaker 5:41
so what I'm really excited about is Gabriel is a guitarist, but he's not just any guitarist. He is literally one of the best in the world. And I've known this paid Paul a lot of money to and I'm not joking. I'm not joking, because when I'm doing sound for him, we actually work in the same company and he's come by and I I just I've done sound for him. He's a big fan. Yeah, I'm a fan I alongside just doing the sound format, and I'm shocked because when he's playing and performing, he sounds exactly like one of my favorite guitarists. Jason Richardson, which is like, Oh, he's amazing shredding guitarists, right. But Gabriel is not only as good. I think he's better because he can shred just like Jason, but also plays piano at the same time. He's shredding on piano at the same time got four hands. It's insane. It's like the craziest thing ever. And he's doing it musically. He's like a super high achieving expert level. If you're playing guitar hero, he's just I mean, it's not even on the scale of expert. It's like past like, it's insane. He's so good. If Red Bull had a competition for like, for like guitar, like he's the winner, like,
Unknown Speaker 6:57
thanks, man means a lot. Dude. I definitely think I have a lot of work to do. But you know, I've been doing this long enough that I don't know. Just it's just it feels weird to hear something like that. So thank you, man. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 7:10
I can attest to this, too. I mean, I had the pleasure of joining you at the barbershop at the Cosmopolitan. That show was amazing. And let me give you kudos to your showmanship in getting that room excited. Nonstop? Yeah, I mean, it was
Unknown Speaker 7:28
like three hours of nonstop just Yes. No breaks is rocket a whole way
Unknown Speaker 7:33
interaction. And the fandom and these are people seeing you for the first time. So that's a testament to what you bring as an artist and your performance. So yeah, of course. Um,
Unknown Speaker 7:48
but he's also curious and learns more than just what he's good at. Like he's good at guitar. He's amazing at piano he can shred on both instruments and play in any key at anytime you're
Unknown Speaker 7:58
just faster. So talk about your audio. I know you have a setup. I follow you on Instagram so shout out to your Instagram. Thank you let them know how to follow you.
Unknown Speaker 8:10
Yeah, my my instagram at Gabriel Guardian pretty much anything YouTube Facebook, just look up my name. Give a guardian you'll find me there and
Unknown Speaker 8:18
on that you were showcasing your rack? Yeah, your audio rack. Yeah, this little thing only Oh, just working on this. Nobody deal.
Unknown Speaker 8:25
Yeah. So what I like to do is for every tour slash show, it's like a per basis kind of thing. Like I don't have a one solution to everything. It's kind of like right, who are we going on tour with? Okay, are we headlining are we support? Okay, how much time do we have to set up? Okay to do so. We got a tour coming up. This April May, the spring with fire wind, this awesome power metal band from from Greece. And the guitar player. That band is Ozzy Osbourne, his last guitar guitarist Gus G. He's awesome, dude. And we're going on tour a support band so we're not headlining so we don't have all the time in the world to soundcheck, knowing what it's like to be on tour, it's probably not going to happen like half or even more than half the amount of times you're just going to show up. And everything's gonna be running late and get on stage. You gotta go now. So for this particular tour, I had to like brainstorm, okay, what's this, what's the setup I can use that's going to take the least amount of time to plug in every day yet give me incredible results. What I used as an X 32 rack we'd like a split snake where pretty much gets our signals in splits it into two different places. And one one of the splits it goes to my in your monitor rack so the whole band can you know have their own in your mixes and stuff and the other split goes to front of house so that we're not traveling with our own engineer on this tour. This run the house guys just kind of mix us every night so I got to be able to like give them the tails like super fast I got down this that rack that you saw on Instagram like I can probably set that thing up and like maybe three to five minutes like the whole state shale plug and play. Yeah, it's insane. Mikey used to take us like half an hour to an hour to set up. Now I literally need three to five minutes, and we're ready to
Unknown Speaker 10:05
go. And I think the audio guys that you're coming with and wherever you show up are gonna appreciate it, they're gonna be blown away, like, what is this? Dude, you did this,
Unknown Speaker 10:13
they're gonna be Front of House dude loves us because they're just like, Oh, you just did my job. This is amazing. All I got to do is ride faders like Hell yeah, you know. So you know, we try to do our own sound as much as we can. But I mean, if I could play on stage and do my own sound, I would, but you just physically can't, you can't, you don't know what it sounds like out there. Because you can't stand out there and be on stage. So I do realize there are some things in your career, you can't do it all you can try to make a template, you can try to tell your sound guy how you want it to sound or give him some tips, but you'll never be up there while you're up there. So yeah, that's always my tip to people's just like, whether you're doing like a long tour, big tour like that, or you're doing something like a small local show. Sound is something that a lot of people overlook, and is until they get to the venue that they're like, Oh, we don't have any mics. No one thought about bringing those. So no one thought about the, you know, the speakers it like, it's like musicians are so creative. You don't think about the
Unknown Speaker 11:07
Exactly. And that's what your dad was telling you. A piece of advice is really getting a piece and control over the creative process. That's right, because at the end of the day, you're trying to create a fan base, you're trying to get your musicianship on display on the stage, the best to your ability. So being a part of the audio experience, like you said, you can't be two places at once. But as long as you know, you're giving the tools you know about the tools, you can speak that language, which is two different languages as a musician and audio engineer, but at the end of the day, you're doing the same thing. Yeah, you're coming together, performing at the same time. Once behind the scenes, I used
Unknown Speaker 11:44
to hate when I didn't like the way something sounded. But there was nothing I could do about it. They're like, Oh, you don't like the way your mic sounds? What what do I'm gonna do? I don't know, you know, so now at least I can be like, Oh, roll off some, you know, the 4k, it's feedbacking. Or you can when you learn a little bit about sound, which I recommend to all artists, musicians out there is just learn the very basics. And your sound guy and your fans will thank you later because you know, knowing those basics, it's like getting an oil change. You know what I mean? Like you don't need to know how to fix the whole thing. But just those basics will get you far in life. It's
Unknown Speaker 12:18
definitely on trend for sure. I'm
Unknown Speaker 12:19
shocked by how so many guitarists they love getting into their sound. When you're in the Guitar World. I've noticed because I'm playing guitar. Now I'm gonna learning how to play it. And there's so many pedals there's so many different like marketing things, there's so many companies, you can buy, you can get into hundreds of 1000s of dollars of gear and just like little tiny pedals, and big building your own rack, right. But I'm shocked because at the end of the chain is the audio guy. And a lot of the sound is going to change depending on the venue depending on even the album depending on the track in the recording studio, and how it's going to be processed with other instruments, the mix of your guitar is going to change. And I just noticed guitarists struggling all the time with good sound because they know what their guitar sounds like when it's really good for them. But the second they step into a studio environment or a live environment, they are thrown off completely. So how do you overcome audio? Do you approach audio as a musician, or as a sound guy?
Unknown Speaker 13:18
What was beautiful about like in my band, immortal guardian, our guitar player, Joshua, he was originally our studio engineer. He was like our producer, he like recorded us, like an album or two. And then I was like, Hey, man, would you like to join the band? Like, I think we'd work great together. So it was cool to see somebody go, like I saw him as an audio dude to becoming our guitarist. I learned so much from him. And just like you said, like, how do you approach things, I've always approached things as a musician trying to make sense of what all these knobs make, right? But he's really working with him has been great because he is the musician. sound guy. So he understands both worlds. So now, when we're writing together, all check out this cool little keyword part. What do you think about it? I think it's cool, but you should play it an octave higher, because those frequencies won't match mesh with the guitar. And I'm like, I didn't even think about that. It's like it's not it's not that the melodies not cool or not that the part doesn't sound good. It's just if you do it like this, you're making my audio part easier, because I don't have to do all these funky cues. Everything will just fit like they say it's like everything has a place on the EQ shelf everything kind of just lines up right so side the mix, right, like so. Now I tried to think like that and everything I do. It's like, especially the biggest curse that US guitar players have when we first start playing guitar is a lot of the times we're practicing guitar by ourselves in our bedroom. So we get this particular tone that we fall in love with. We're like oh my god, that's the sound that sounds so amazing. Then you go play in a band. And that sound does not sound good in a band. But if you were to play at home, the sound that does sound good to the band, you'd be like this sounds this doesn't sound good. Why is it sound so thin or why is it sound so whatever It's because it's out of context. So that's, if there's any beginners out there listening. What sounds good together doesn't sound good on its own and vice versa. So you almost gotta like, except that just when your guitar tones really awesome on its own, it might not translate or
Unknown Speaker 15:16
in a room to the room. Yeah, different rooms have different frequency environments, different wall treatment, everything, whether you're hearing something reflecting back to you or not, and
Unknown Speaker 15:27
different songs to and in different you know, scenarios of composition or whatever serves a song The best I know this from being a percussionist, I play an instrument, and I know it sounds weird. I know it's gonna sound good with the orchestra is going to my old well, even though I'm like hitting it a certain way. And it's it. I don't really like those weird right on the ground. Right, but the conductor is asking me to do it, and I do it and then I get it. And I see why that's kind of what sound guys are, are. They're like conductors. But they're, they're moving faders and they're listening to the entire picture. They're the ones in control of that. I'm fascinated because guitarists, specifically are the ones that know audio a lot more than everybody else.
Unknown Speaker 16:07
Because we're definitely in our own journey trying to find that perfect tone. It's like the all those beams you see, it's just like, just the endless chase for the perfect tone. You'll never know words. Come on.
Unknown Speaker 16:18
Yeah. Oh my gosh, I know. Okay, so a friend of mine, who's done audio Sam friend, he worked with a Five Finger Death Punch is a former guitarist from that band. It was just every day was how do I refine the wireless? The rack? How do I tune the wireless to sound good, the EQ of the pack with the guitar, and then different guitars and just this whole and unlike guitar sound is like its own war or, and I'm exploring that by playing the instrument now. And so many products, so many so many pedals and a lot of guitars, I think get overwhelmed just by audio because they want to take control as they should because they're the player. They're the artist. It's that it's a relationship with a sound guy. I think you have shocked me with that at work, too. I show up at work. And I'm like you have everything plugged in your whole pedal boards really organized. And it's designed for the purpose for,
Unknown Speaker 17:12
like I said, bases to bases kind of thing I don't have. I've been playing guitar for over 20 years. And I don't have this like, Oh, that's my sound. That's my patch. It's like, it's silly for me to think about. It's like no, that sounds good for that one tour that I did that one time in those particular clubs. If I could do the same, same tour, same band, same everything. But if it's a different set of clubs, or it's a different set of players, or any little variable changes, I will change my tone. So that's what I was. That's what I'm working on actually this week is for this upcoming fire winter. I'm trying to work on new guitar tones, because I know the one I currently have, is it going to work with this parameters? I
Unknown Speaker 17:49
love your forward thinking
Unknown Speaker 17:51
and I know humbly is to his he's the most humble guitarist. It's crazy folly.
Unknown Speaker 17:57
Got it. All right. You're the best. And I know you have so much more offerings. Tell me more about what's going on in terms of what's in your tool bag. What other things that you're working on that others may not know.
Unknown Speaker 18:11
I love lights and lasers. That's like a big passion I have. I recently teamed up with the laser company unity might be doing some awesome new laser content with him. They just sponsored a whole new batch of videos coming up soon. So that's the thing like directly on my plate besides obviously the tour. That's the thing I get excited about the most being on the road is my favorite thing to do. What you're going to be seeing on my socials pretty soon is a ton of laser content. I love lasers. They're just the coolest thing in the world to me. Definitely lighting and lasers is like 100 fold more of an interest to me than audio, audio, something that I've never really liked. I just knew that I had to do it. I look at audio like health. And it's like, I don't want to be healthy. But you got to do it. You know, you want to you want to feel good and you want to sound good or whatever. So yeah. Yours
Unknown Speaker 19:00
is a more creative outlet. Oh, yeah, for sure. I know. You're like oh, it's not audio. But hey, lasers, and they'll show everything comes together. So tell us a little bit more about how lasers and audio come together. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 19:13
well the cool part is, because I am on stage performing. I can't run my own lasers. So I timecode everything. And for anyone listening that doesn't know what timecode is. It's essentially you're pre programming your entire show to just follow the music and the beat and the melody like exactly how you want it to be. It's like It's like editing a music video and then you play it back and it plays all these little clips and looks amazing. Sounds amazing. So and it hits it hits and that's what I'm sort of doing lasers now. You know, I've always felt like metal is lacking lasers like every DJ in the world uses them but I'm like, Dude, there's not enough lasers and
Unknown Speaker 19:48
metal Trans Siberian Orchestra is coming in right now.
Unknown Speaker 19:52
I love those guys. That's like my dream laser show right there. But yeah, doing bringing up productions like that, especially at the level that we're at. We No, we're not playing arenas. But we're playing like medium sized real nice nightclubs and to bring that to especially when metal fans aren't really used to seeing lasers a whole lot unless it's at that like arena trance to varying level. It's just so fun to see people's faces get melted like, oh my god, yeah, amazing. And then working with like audio over the years I used to same thing as a laser guy. You know, like when you start doing when you start programming, you start one way. And then over the years, you kind of you kind of mature in your programming. And you realize, it's not all just like eye candy. And audio is not just all ear candy. If you make them work together, you make these big sounding impacts. And it goes in perfect synced with the lasers that you're looking at. Don't Don't you know, whoa, like it becomes 100 comes a whole nother life when when it all works together. So that ecosystem of the audio needs to be good. The lasers need to look good, the band needs to be tied, like a really for good show. And I don't think the average person understands is like so many things need to go right for a show to?
Unknown Speaker 21:03
Yeah, and no doubt. Yeah, there's so many working parts. And just you're getting a chance to go into those audio and lighting and just crafting everything. So that levels of you as an artist and the experience, no doubt people are going to walk away with a lasting impression. Because at the end of the day with audio, it's like oh, yeah, I had a great time. But that sound well, that was weird. It didn't sound right. Or I was expecting a little sound like the album. But like getting closer and closer to perfection. Sure, we're not going to hit 100%. But that's something we're always aiming for. We're getting to the 99%. But I mean, at the end of the day, it's the fans experience. And if we're thinking about the fan the whole way, I think we're on the right track.
Unknown Speaker 21:44
Oh, yeah. And that's exactly it. It's like, it's like a movie, right? The US non movie makers, I don't know if you guys make movies, but we don't realize how much goes into a scene to get that light. And to be exactly like this, and for the dialogue and the actors to get the lines. And there's so there's so much that goes into it. But at the end of the day, we don't need to understand it. We just know that it was amazing. And it came together so well. And that's how I feel about the show. I love when a show happens. And people aren't questioning how or why they're just like, wow, that was amazing. I don't even care how it happened. It's just the greatest thing I've seen, you know, pre production,
Unknown Speaker 22:17
post production, and then the production
Unknown Speaker 22:21
what got you interested in learning lasers and programming them
Unknown Speaker 22:26
was actually when I met you, man. And when I'm when we when I first started working with Mobius, eight, he was the very first guy that I ever saw lasers and I thought was like, That's cool, because I'd seen lasers before right? Seeing them at EDM shows. And I always thought, oh, that's that's kind of cool. And it's kind of, you know, DJ like, like, I didn't understand that world at the time. And then I started working with Mobius eight. He's an incredible musician slash, he has a really cool instrument called the Hydra. It has a bunch of lasers that he touches, he creates light and sound by touching lasers with like these gloves on his special gloves. We can touch lasers and not burn his hands all night, you know. And every time he touches the laser, as he gets closer, it gets further away. It makes different sounds. And it also makes the lasers and the lights behind him react to his movements. So he's like, essentially, like a live DJ performing. It's hard to put into words, but just look him up online. Anyone listening will be sad is amazing. I met him a while back, we started working together, I would just stay at his place for like days at a time before I moved to Vegas. And I was just so intrigued by his setup. Like, how does the laser do that? How can when you do this, the laser goes green? Oh, it's because it's programmed like this? Oh, well, how come you make it? So how does it spin like that? Oh, because of this, and it just got so interested. And in one. One summer, I think we had a tour coming up. And I was like, dude, let me let me see if I can help with programming the show. I like to learn more about it. And then I must have put like a week worth of, of nonstop YouTube tutorials, little reading forums and stuff. And the next thing you know, I got addicted and, and him having the lasers and having a gear was great because lasers are an expensive thing to get into. But when you meet someone that that kind of already has it going on. It's like, okay, I'm not really trying to do this full time. But I would like to see if I could take it to another level. And then once you figure that out, then I'm like, Okay, I want my own lasers. Now. I want this, I want that. And then and then it just becomes it's like music, someone shows you like how to play three chords. And then you're like, wow, I just learned like 10 songs and oh, I can learn 10 more and I learn how to solo and then 20 years go by and and you're a musician, so the laser thing was just kind of like just for fun. And then over the years, people started hiring me to do lasers for them. And then I started doing tours or being my own lasers. And next thing you know, I'm like the guitar laser guy or whatever. But that's how I met Paul. He were I was doing lasers for Mariko this incredible cello player here in town. She plays for everybody. And she's doing a music video. Most of you say it was like, Hey, man, my friend needs some lasers for music video. You think you could hop in real quick Can program something she was probably the first person I ever worked for, after it will be as well. And then that's where I met Paul and Sam friend and everything. So that was pretty cool. Just like anything else, you know, listen to your heart, listen to your passions, like I never thought I would like doing this stuff, but I was always interested. And once I got into it, I never turned back I was like, This is awesome. I want to always do this. I love
Unknown Speaker 25:21
the artists type because you guys are just an I'm an artist here I'm not gonna put myself down but the artists hype are a special type we can really plug into our passion, we can really just hone in focus in on something because of that curiosity, you learning the audio, begrudgingly, but it turned out to be something special because now when you got taurine, you know level up on that experience and your performance. And then now the laser thing coming in on another sideways adding to the performance. So
Unknown Speaker 25:49
for all the nerds out there that are listening and like okay, why are we listening to a laser guy or guitarist guy talking about audio? Like how's this? How's this all working out? Well, I'm curious. To help that out real quick. How do you connect audio to lasers? Um,
Unknown Speaker 26:08
that's a really interesting thing. Um, one word, what I noticed is like, so Mobius eight, every time he would touch the lasers on his on his instrument. It makes the lasers all behind him do stuff with MIDI control. So he's using like IR sensors and like laser sensors and stuff to touch to touch his instrument to make these cool. Watch these crazy sounds. But the sound in the audio is coming in at same time. And I would just like, how is that happening? You're obviously there's something in the software where you're controlling, you're able to control what's what's going on with MIDI. So technically, you should be able to do that with audio. And and that's when I went down the rabbit hole of like, what if we made a plug in instead of making these like custom plugins for myself at Ableton? Like what if I made a plugin, like in Max for Live, it's like a, it's like a create your own little plugins in this software within a software called Max for Live. And it's like essentially gets audio signals and translate some to like MIDI and like laser, laser signals or whatever. So I was able to like map a microphone to plug into a laser where like you're seeing and the laser moves to your singing or it moves to your guitar playing. I've even made a laser piano where like, I can play the piano and every single 61 of the keys on the piano shoots one beam. So if I have 10 fingers down playing like a big chord, you see 10 beam shooting out and I want to see that it's super epic. It's fun, and we're going to be doing it on this tour. But long story short is like, there's ways that you can connect worlds that you can't even imagine that you would like I was using Ableton for like 10 years plus, before I even thought of doing something like that, because I didn't know you could do something like that. And yeah, I just think it's a I think it's a great thing. It's a great thing to know. And then same thing with like, something as simple as the x 32. Right, you know, you learn the x 32 You can talk to so many people across the globe that have the same thing right? And then you meet some you know, you're on tour you meet some random dude in Germany and he teaches you something about it that you never thought you would learn so just to me I always tell my creative friends just don't ever think you know it all. Keep trying to learn. And when you think you know it all you don't, you really don't never just like guitar playing, you can master quote unquote mastered the instrument. But you really have it there's so much still more to learn. Thank
Unknown Speaker 28:35
you again, Gabriel for coming. Really appreciate everything that you have to offer and so excited to get more in tune with everything that you have to show us and I'll be following you on your journey.
Unknown Speaker 28:48
Thanks so much for having me. It's been a lot of fun. We'll go in endlessly.
Unknown Speaker 29:29
I want to thank you so much for tuning in. And if you missed any of today's episode, you can find us anywhere podcasts are available like Spotify, Google and Apple podcasts. Thank you for listening to today's episode of talking with the pros with me. Just be I love you and I'll catch you in the next one. Bye
Transcribed by https://otter.ai