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Geek Therapy's anime and manga podcast.
Josué (00:06)
Welcome to Otaku Ryoho on the Geek Therapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. And here on Otaku Ryoho, it's all about the anime and manga. My name is Josué Cardona and I am joined by Rae Hoover. Sup, Rae, what are we going talk about today?
Rae Hoover (00:22)
Hey.
We're
gonna talk about Frieren
Josué (00:28)
kinda like Frieren I don't know if I've brought it up before. I am happy to talk about Frieren for as long as you want.
Rae Hoover (00:30)
Yeah.
Excellent.
Five hours later.
Josué (00:42)
So what about Frieren?
Rae Hoover (00:44)
Yeah, Frieren Frieren and ⁓ grief is kind of the angle I was I was taking here and just the the way it explores grief very much did not match my expectations, ⁓ but in the best way possible. I expected it to be very different in tone, and that's what actually put me off of watching it for so long. But you you saying it was like your favorite thing ever, I was like, I'm gonna
I gotta try it now. And yeah, it really it sur surpassed my expectations and like really surprised me with the way they approached it. So
Josué (01:24)
Interesting. Interesting. so would you call Frieren a show about grief?
Rae Hoover (01:31)
I think at its core that's what it's about.
but but but like that's not it. It's it's like well yes, but also no, as most my answers are. ⁓ it's a show about grief, but it's a show about other things too. It's a show about growth. It's a show about
What it means to continue.
Josué (01:48)
So Frieren the full title of this show and manga is Frieren Beyond Journey's End. And ⁓ spoilers for Frieren. First of all, like it's amazing, but stick around. We'll like if if if you're not interested in it yet, you will be, I think, as we continue to talk about it. I've explained it to people as imagine if the Lord of the Rings started after
Mordor right? Like after the whole thing happened and they came back home. And that's when it's and really, I mean, it's in the title, right? That's that's really how it is. And the setup of the show is I'm gonna refer to that as a show because I haven't read the manga, but you it's also it's also a manga. ⁓ the there's four adventurers and we literally meet them after their ten year journey
Rae Hoover (02:35)
Yeah, fair.
Josué (02:47)
to kill the demon king. And so it's it's after that is when the story starts. And that alone was so intriguing to me. that's my setup for the show. I don't know I don't know if that's how you would ⁓ introduce it or set it up for people.
Rae Hoover (02:50)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I I think that's a solid way to kind of like tee it up. you know, if you think about it in the terms of Lord of the Rings, it's kind of actually how Lord of the Rings happens in that like ⁓ the Hobbit, yeah, the Hobbit happened first. But and that's the the gang getting back together a little bit. ⁓ but yeah, the actual Lord of the Rings adventure's much, much bigger than the Hobbit. but yeah, yeah.
Josué (03:19)
Technically you're you're right.
Well, and and really the like the Lord of the Rings stories, or at least at least ⁓ now I'm not sure. why am I not sure? I'm literally reading the Hobbit right now in two different languages, and I'm not sure. But there There and Back Again, I believe is the name of the Hobbit. And the way that the book the book is supposed to be fr ⁓ Bilbo's recollection of the events. Right? So it's like
Rae Hoover (03:59)
Yeah.
Josué (04:00)
And the movie does this when the movie the the movie version of the Hobbit starts with him as an old man sitting down to write the story. And so he is looking back at it. So in a way, Frieren is kind of doing that as well.
Rae Hoover (04:12)
Yeah.
And I think it I think Bilbo even in the Lord of the Rings like movies proper, he fin he's just finishing that.
Josué (04:21)
Yep,
yep, yep. They're and back again. Yeah, is the name of the Yeah, yeah, yep. Yeah. So that's that's how I would introduce it. That's how you would introduce it. So talk to me about grief.
Rae Hoover (04:24)
Mm. Good title, honestly. Solid.
The big the big vague topic of grief. Yeah. I think when it comes to to grief
A lot of the work I do clinically is grief work. That's something I specialize in in a lot of different areas. And grief shows up in our lives in ways that I think most people wouldn't even recognize. there's the normal mourning ⁓ the loss of someone. Like that's what everyone thinks of when there's grief. But what grief actually is is loss of expectations. It's
disappointment that something didn't happen in a certain way, or accepting that like something can't happen in the way you wanted it to. There's disenfranchised grief, ⁓ which that might be a an example of disenfranchised grief, but it's like, grief that is pre grief. you're mourning the loss of, say, a grandparent with dementia. you you see the decline.
In situations like that with caretaking, you're grieving all of that way before they actually die. So there's that. like it's all very complicated. And Frieren Frieren is a a a great exploration of grief not in so much of the clinical terms, but in the sense of
okay, let's back it up a little bit here. Frieren is the main character is an elf in this fantasy world. her companions, two of them are humans. One is a a dwarf, like the D&D D style dwarf. and ⁓ dwarves have a longer lifespan than humans. Elves have an insanely long lifespan. ⁓ thousands, thousands of years, apparently.
Like it seems like we don't even know in like in that universe how how long they live. but there's also very, very few of elves in general. so Frieren is going through doing this adventuring party for 10 years and she's like, Okay, that was five minutes of my life. like her perception of time is very, very different than any of the shorter lived like races.
She doesn't realize how much time, how much of life passes in what she considers a short amount of time. at the beginning of the show, the end of the journey, she's like, I'll see you guys in another decade or two, or like another 50 years or something. And everyone's like, ⁓ I'm gonna be dead by then, girl. Like, what are you doing? And
And like she comes back around and she does reconnect with I I always mix the priest and the dwarf up. it's like what is Heiter and then Eisen. That's it. For a while I was hearing Eisen with an H because I thought they all had H names except Frieren for a minute. And I was like, no, that's not how that's spelled. ⁓ she reconnects with those two after
Josué (07:21)
Heiter is the priest. Haiter?
Rae Hoover (07:40)
Himmel. I was like blanking on his frickin' name. He's referred to as Himmel the hero. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's smart. That's smart. ⁓ Yeah, he like after Himmel has passed away. ⁓ and he was like eighty or something like that. Like like he lived a long, long life. they they reconnect.
Josué (07:40)
Himmel. This is why I brought up a list before.
Rae Hoover (08:02)
like at at his funeral essentially and then she reconnects with them a little bit after that, ⁓ kind of setting up like the events and the characters of the show where it currently goes, the next generation per se. ⁓
But in that moment, like when Himmel dies and she realizes I didn't know him at all. I knew him for a brief moment in his life and an even briefer moment in my life. And I wish I knew more about him. That's just that just grabs my heart and just like squeezes it real hard. Just like that regret.
she goes through this whole thing of just like, I wish I knew him better. I wish I knew him, period. and I think at least part of the journey, the intention there at the start is I'm gonna go around and
learn about my friend through the places that were important to him, through the people that were important to him. so she goes around and kind of like pieces together some memories and there's a lot the a lot more other stuff that like gets added in here that we'll we'll get to but that's kind of like a basic overview of the whole thing. ⁓ there's a lot of growth in Frieren too. I I think that's a another big theme here.
I think she realizes how selfish she was. I know we we we love talking about being selfish on this podcast. it comes up a lot. ⁓ but she realizes just how selfish she was. And she's learning how to care about other people, learning how to be cared for by other people. And it's something that just in her species, in her, culture.
That's just not a thing. Elves are kind of isolated. I think we've seen three in the entire show. Like, including Frieren. And they kind of are just by themselves. They don't hang out with a lot of other elves. And they just exist in their own little time bubble, in that, they'll be around for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.
Josué (10:06)
So on on the grief piece, where like I'm I'm very curious I'm very curious to learn more about the the ways that you're seeing grief in the show because I I've never described it as a show about grief.
Rae Hoover (10:28)
Mm-hmm.
Really?
Josué (10:36)
I've never seen it that way. I can see I a hundred percent see your your perspective and that's why I want to hear more about it. This isn't I don't need to be convinced. I'm like I'm genuinely curious about how ⁓ maybe something that you're labeling as grief, I labeled as something else. And it could be both things, right? But I wasn't looking at it from a perspective of loss, right? ⁓
Rae Hoover (10:38)
okay.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Josué (11:06)
maybe maybe I'll give you a few of the like how I've seen a few things and maybe you can recontextualize it for me from like a grief lens, which I think would be it'll be interesting so so I've I've always thought of the show as and you're absolutely right. So she they see Himmel. I think right they meet 50 years later and then Himmel is this like tiny old man with a huge beard, right?
Rae Hoover (11:30)
I mean bald.
Josué (11:31)
Yeah, he's fault. Right? And he was like this blue haired, like handsome, yeah, you know, he the hero, right? The stereotypical main hero character. And so there is actually a moment when at h her at his his funeral where I believe she does say, right, like you mentioned this, but I d believe she she says the words I
Rae Hoover (11:38)
Pretty boy.
Josué (12:02)
I didn't know him well enough or like I wish I knew him. I I I don't remember if it was exactly I wish I knew him better, but it was something like that. And I had that same realization in in my life when my grandfather died. I remember talking to I only had positive memories of my grandfather and my my cousin who I grew up with, like he's like a he w was like a brother to me. We grew up together.
Rae Hoover (12:08)
Yeah.
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Josué (12:32)
He was s super close to my to my grandfather. And so at my grandfather's funeral, I told my my cousin in a very Frieren rin way like
Like I was always like, I don't think I ever had a single conversation with grandpa that wasn't where we weren't joking. Where like I don't think I had a I don't think I ever had a serious conversation with grandpa was what I said. And I and I said that in in a joyful manner. Like I was remembering him fondly.
Rae Hoover (13:02)
Mm.
Josué (13:14)
But the look on my cousin's face is what is what hit me. Because I could see that he
He was basic his reception to that was you didn't know him at all. Right? Like you didn't know him. And and like he the look on his face haunted me for a bit. Because I was like, huh. And it was just the way my grandfather was, right? Like, I called my grandparents, my grandmother would pick up, she'd talk to us, she'd say, Hey, Juan, talk to your grandkids. And he'd come on, he'd be like, How are you doing?
I've got a joke for you. Literally, would just tell us a joke. He'd laugh and he'd be I'll put in your grandma back on, and that was it. And now I lived with this man for years, right? And very rarely did we have conversations. Like I would have to sit down and be like, Grandpa, what was it like when you grew up? Grandpa, what was this? Like I had to I came at it with a lot of curiosity. And then he would open up and and that's it. But again, my reflection was like, that man was always laughing and he always made me laugh.
Rae Hoover (14:03)
What an icon.
Yeah.
Josué (14:23)
And to
my and to my to my cousin, that was like, you asshole. He was more than that, you know? Like he was so much more than that. He didn't say that, you know, but like I could tell, like he was like so hurt. Like, what do mean he was just like like every ex experience you had with him was like not serious, you know, it was like joking. So as you as you were revisiting, you were talking about that scene again, I I this came up for me.
Rae Hoover (14:31)
Damn.
Mm-hmm.
Josué (14:51)
And so to me, the show isn't because it's 'cause to me grief is about loss and
I'm I've never thought that she felt these losses, right? Instead it's her to me I always say it's a show about reflection, rediscovery, right, and and gratitude. Right? Where like Yeah, cause like she goes back to these events. She's reliving these events, seeing them through
Rae Hoover (15:09)
Mm.
Mm, gratitude gratitude big there, yeah.
Josué (15:25)
literally a completely new perspective, right? She's now open to these things in a way that she wasn't before. I think I think one of the one of the very ⁓ charming things about the show is that this is this is my per my interpretation. You let me know if you think it but like Himmel was in love with Frieren and she did not notice, right? She c she just did not see it.
Rae Hoover (15:28)
Mm-hmm.
Hundo P. Hundo P she had no idea.
Josué (15:53)
And now later on she's discovering, like there's moments, right? Like with the jewelry that meant something that she never knew. And now she discovers she's like, ⁓ he gave me, like, he was telling me that he loved me. And I never realized that, right? And so again, I don't I don't see her, at least not yet. There's only been two seasons. There's more of the manga. But I've never seen her ⁓ I've never thought of it as like, ⁓ I missed out or I don't have that, right?
Rae Hoover (16:07)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Josué (16:23)
It's like, wow, he loved me. And now I have a a greater appreciation for these relationships that I had, or my relationship with him. Because there's something that's happening in the show so far. I don't know how this is gonna play out in the manga, but they they they have been on a journey to go to a place where supposedly you can speak to the dead. And
Rae Hoover (16:48)
Yeah.
Josué (16:50)
I've always seen her motivation as one of more of curiosity, of like, I wonder I wonder if he is around. I would actually like to talk to him again. Right. And she almost seems like she seems happy about it in a way that Again, Frieren is a very like as a character, I I just I just love her character so much because of because of her perspective and her attitude toward that, right? It's like, hey, it would be
Rae Hoover (16:54)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
She's so fun.
Josué (17:18)
I would love to talk to him again. I haven't talked to him in a long time. And and I I feel like as she's going through all these adventures, I think she's maybe she she's gonna have things to talk to him about, right? That she but it's not like I miss him so much or I need closure, right? Like none of that is there. So that's why I never think of the show I've never thought of Frieren as grieving in any f particular form.
Rae Hoover (17:30)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (17:48)
it has a lot to do with like you said, how she's just lived forever. And her per her perception of time is very, very different than the people around her. But where before she was like jaded and didn't really th there were no a there was she wasn't open to not only new things, but like even anything, really, right? Like like that's a big part of how Himmel opened up her her world, right?
Rae Hoover (17:56)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (18:17)
and helped her if it weren't for him, she wouldn't have left her little town. She wouldn't have like gone exploring. She wouldn't have done all of these things, right? And then now
Rae Hoover (18:27)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (18:27)
she has interests and she has likes and she makes decisions based on those things and she and where Himmel helped her understand that it's okay to want something. It's okay to make a decision based on fun, right? Or or curiosity. you
Rae Hoover (18:44)
Mm-hmm.
It's okay to go
the the road less travel just for, you know, a moment with a great view with your friends.
Josué (18:53)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Like w something that she would have at one point considered a waste of time and did even at times, right? Now she's seeing which is which is a whole other thing, right? Which is that I I say rediscovery and and kind of recontextualization because literally she's traveling with younger people and she's revisiting these events w through new eyes.
Like the second time she's coming through and now she's able to do for them it some of the stuff that Himmel did for her, which is also like, you know, the best way to to learn is to teach kind of thing, right? It's like, she's not even she's realizing these things as she's explaining them, as she's walking through them. Again, so it's like it's it the show to me is about this this person, Frieren, literally
Rae Hoover (19:27)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (19:47)
coming to understand her her existence up until this point, right? Recontextualizing everything being like, huh. yeah. And again, and that gratitude piece of like I didn't appreciate it the first time and now I appreciate it so much. sometimes literally in the moment, but sometimes actually the memory of it. And and so to me, none of that says grief.
Rae Hoover (20:00)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Josué (20:09)
in in any way that I that I think of it, right? So to me I think of I do think of grief as loss and therefore I do see it as like a sad thing. And to me, Frieren is never sad. Like to me, Frieren is always every time that she re that she realizes something, again, like the moments where she's like, ⁓
Himmel told me he loved me and I didn't realize it, right? It's like it's it's it's such a like a happy moment to realize that. I never I don't think that the show ever presents it as I missed an opportunity or I regret not having done things differently. It's like that Himmel.
Rae Hoover (20:39)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
That Himmel. That that guy. Yeah.
Josué (20:59)
I like that guy. He's he was great, you know? Like I don't
think I've heard her say the words like I'm I miss I may be wrong, right? But I don't remember hearing her say the words
I took you for granted, right? Like or anything like that. and so yeah, so to me the the show again, it's it's like it's all about revisiting the past and seeing it differently, learning about yourself and learning about you know, just understanding yourself and others. which is since I see it th that to me that's what Frieren win is, you can imagine why I like I like the idea of things that help us understand
Rae Hoover (21:35)
Yeah, that part makes sense. That part makes sense. Yeah, because you're right. She's discovering her whole identity, really. Like, she didn't really have much of an identity. she was just she was just Frieren . She was just the elf, just the mage or whatever. ⁓ and now, like, yeah, she has a personality. ⁓ but yeah, like I hear what I hear exactly what you're saying, that it's not sad. That's really the tone that I expected with this show when I heard it framed as it's about.
Josué (21:35)
Each other and ourselves. Yeah.
Rae Hoover (22:04)
Grief. I was like, ooh, that sounds like it's gonna be fucking rough. That sounds like it's gonna be really raw and emotional. And I don't know if I can do that like all the time. and that's that's what surprised me so much about the show is that it's centered on grief in the sense of all of this is happening because of grief. It's not active grief, if that makes sense.
Josué (22:08)
Ha ha ha.
I don't understand what that means and I want you to explain it to me because I want to understand I wan I want to be able to see it from that perspective.
Rae Hoover (22:34)
Ha ha ha
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so like part of the grief cycle depending on what model you look at, I think this one this stage is part of all of them is acceptance. Acceptance is, you know, whether you're doing five stages, I think there's a seven stage one that's now seen as more correct. Point is y you can be in any stage at any time, multiple times a day, even. ⁓ but acceptance is always a big piece of grief.
I'm kind of seeing this as the acceptance and like the post loss growth, kind of like post-traumatic growth. But a lot of people when they lose someone, they do have this intense reflection. It makes them think about their own like mortality. And man, human brains don't like doing that. They scream real loud about that. They're like, ⁓ I d I don't I don't wanna perceive that I am also going to die and that I am a fragile human and
Man, what what am I doing with anything?
I'm seeing this as part of the acceptance process and and that post growth. 'cause it yeah, it's less about the seeing this and going like like, ⁓ God, another reminder of Himmel. And it's more of ⁓ I never saw it this way. And I you know, I never knew this side of him. Like, that's that's really cool. It's reconnecting with the one who has been lost versus like,
screaming, crying, throwing up, you know, like laying on the floor because you're so devastated. It's there's distance there. That that's kind of what I mean by like active grief. Active grief. I think the word mourning is probably probably the more mainstream use there.
Josué (24:16)
What
it's interesting 'cause I do think that part of Frieren would work extremely well for me to show someone
one way to grieve if they came to me saying that they were grieving, right? In the sense that like, hey, you know, you can we can I did this with my grandfather, right? I was like, my family was like, I don't want to talk about I was like, give me your favorite memories. What were your favorite jokes of his, right? Like, let's talk about him. Let's revisit that, right? Like that exercise I do think is is healthy, especially if
Rae Hoover (24:31)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Josué (24:55)
your instinct at this time because it's too painful is to avoid it, right? Like to be able to do that and and do that in community as well is I think the show shows what that could look like. I still don't think that that's her motivation. That's what that's where that's where I'm different, right? Where that that's where I see it kind of that's where I I don't see the grief part. But I can see it as an exercise in
Rae Hoover (25:06)
Yeah.
Josué (25:20)
How would you for whatever reason if you wanted to remember somebody fondly, right?
Rae Hoover (25:26)
Like reconnect with with them and honor them in your life.
Josué (25:29)
Frieren has a bunch of examples for you on how on how to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rae Hoover (25:31)
Yeah. And a lot of the grief work I do is, you know, people
having losses that were big, big losses. And maybe they're couple years, couple decades. Like there's distance there. They're removed, but it's still really important. And they're still like, why am I still getting so upset about this? And it's like, you lost your dad.
You lost your mom, whoever it was. It's like these are big lot you lost your husband, your wife. Like big, big losses. And it's like, I shouldn't be sad about this still. It's like, I d disagree with that. You can still be sad about it, even if it happened a long time ago. There's gonna be moments where it bubbles up to the surface. And yeah, that's that's normal. That's expected. but like part of the grief work at that point where there is more distance there is
How can you bring this person back into your life? How can you honor them? How can you keep their memory alive? I'm a firm, firm believer in the this is the one the one thing I will ever give Dr. Hiriluk from One Piece is when does a man die when he is forgotten? Like that, I I believe that to my core. And when we stop talking about people, that's when they are truly lost. So if we keep talking about them, we keep.
Honoring them in our lives, we keep seeing them in different things in different places, not literally, or or literally, if that's your belief. that's part of it. That's what keeps people alive. And that itself is a grief process. It's not again that act of mourning, that active loss, but it's building something off of the loss, if that makes sense.
Josué (27:11)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How long did it take you before you mentioned one piece? It took you so just wanted to call it out. Yeah, yeah. Yep, thirty minutes pretty much almost exactly.
Rae Hoover (27:15)
What, like thirty minutes?
Yeah. Yeah.
fork found in kitchen. One piece fan mentioning one piece.
Josué (27:27)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (27:29)
Yeah, I I kind of see it similarly. I do a fun fact about me, listeners. I am kind of my family's genealogist. this is a hobby of mine. there've been other family members who have engaged in it, but ⁓ I I don't talk to them. And there's one side my my dad's side of the family specifically has not really been explored too much. And this is something that I've kind of taken up the mantle on and and been doing that more recently.
Josué (27:38)
Nerd.
Rae Hoover (27:54)
I travel up to the area where that side of the family originated, when I go on my annual vacation and we spent my spouse and I always spend a day kind of going through different archives and going graveyards and doing doing shit like that. It's great. I love it. and this is something that helps me feel connected to frankly, people I never met, people I've heard about.
But they're several generations removed. I did not exist. I was not even a possibility of existing when these people existed. My dad barely existed for some of them. but I feel so very connected with them when I'm going through and and learning about them, just rediscovering these things about them, these documents, these bits of information about their lives and who they were. And in a way, I'm mourning people I've never met.
They've always been lost because they've been I mean if they've been dead for fifty plus years by the time I came around. But I feel very connected with them. I feel like that this that's kind of where I'm basing this like idea of like a grief practice, a grief based practice, I should say. If that makes sense.
Josué (29:01)
So when
when you say mourning people that you've never met, obviously 'cause they existed before you existed. Right. the when you say mourning, and this is this is a part that I want to disentangle, which is like grief, mourning, both of those words sound
Rae Hoover (29:10)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Josué (29:24)
I don't want say negative, but I mean in the sense of ⁓ sadness, right? Like if you tell me, if if you if had you said, I love to do this genealogy stuff because I'm discovering these people from my past and I feel connected to them, and I think it's so cool, right? To me, that's different than I'm mourning these people that I never met. because even though you didn't say the words, I'm thinking.
Rae Hoover (29:25)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Josué (29:49)
that there's some kind of ⁓ loss in the sense of like ⁓ I didn't get to meet them ever, right? like a ⁓ ph in I can only think of the word in Spanish.
Rae Hoover (29:57)
Yeah.
Josué (30:04)
Like some like it's missing. Like you're missing that piece and you want to find it, right? And so there's like the loss of something that you that you were unable to have. Right. And like that grieving process. Like that to me is different because but it comes from like a sadness and a the a loss perspective versus
Rae Hoover (30:23)
Yeah, I think that would fall under
disenfranchised grief in a way. Yeah.
Josué (30:27)
Disenfranchised grief. The second time
you've said this this term, I'm I'm not an a a grief expert. So that means
define like the disenfranchised for me.
Rae Hoover (30:37)
I'm gonna do my best kind of winging it. It's not this is not an official definition by any means. my understanding of it at this current moment, not having re reviewed an official definition in a minute, it's just grief that doesn't have like natural kind of closure. when there's a death, that that's kind of that's kind of it. And like you can eventually go through the grieving process and
generally speaking, gain closure on that because it happened. an example of disenfranchised grief is people who have like a missing family member, like someone who just disappears and goes missing, a a cold case kind of situation. They're never found you know, alive or dead. Like there's there's no closure with it.
That's disenfranchised grief. That's like the the highlighted example of it. So something that's like you don't get natural closure. You have to come to terms with it more than anything.
Josué (31:36)
May I read Wikipedia's entry?
Rae Hoover (31:38)
Yeah, of course. Go for
it.
Josué (31:41)
It says is a term used to describe forms of grief that are not acknowledged on a personal or societal level. Observers may take issue with the mourner's expression of grief or view their loss as insignificant, which can lead to feelings of isolation and doubt over the impact of the loss experienced.
This concept is viewed as a type of gr and this is this is Wikipedia. ⁓ even widely recognized forms of grief can become disenfranchised when well-meaning friends and family attempt to set a time limit or a bereaved person's right to grieve. So I think that's like, your mom's been dead for three years. Get the fuck up, you know, like like why are you still crying, right? And then so you haven't gone through the process fully.
Rae Hoover (32:14)
That makes sense. Okay. Yeah. I was kinda
Yeah.
Yeah.
Josué (32:26)
you haven't gone through it enough to to get to the other side, right? To get to a good place that's what I'm getting from from here. And it has a few examples, yeah.
Rae Hoover (32:33)
That that
makes sense. That makes sense. I think I would I was kind of just more like remembering it from an example versus like the broader concept. So I appreciate that actually. yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm remembering other examples of disenfranchised grief being like you know, miscarriage and pregnancy loss. That's a that's a big one that, has gained more traction and and social acceptance in a way.
Josué (32:59)
Yeah.
That's here.
Rae Hoover (33:01)
people are being more
more ⁓ vocal about it and you know there's more awareness around it, that's the word. ⁓ pet grief. That's another big one that comes up a lot. That a lot of people will be like, it's just a dog, it's just a cat, and be no, that's my child, leave me alone. I say that being a child-free person and my cats are my children. I will defend that one to to the end. That's very real. ⁓ yeah, stuff like that. Stuff that's not seen as like socially acceptable or like
Josué (33:16)
Yeah.
Rae Hoover (33:28)
Normal, the normal grief of your person dies and that's it. So, you know, a missing person that's gonna be a a form of disenfranchised grief.
Josué (33:34)
Yeah.
Now I feel bad. I'm not trying to disenfranchise your grief for the family members that you've never met, right? That's not what I was trying to say. Well, because of the examples, right? It's like it's usually something that it's it's very it can be internalized, but it seems more ⁓ from external factors, right? Like like, ⁓ I can't grieve my pet because it's because people think it's just a pet.
Rae Hoover (33:41)
Ha ha.
Fair. No no no, you're good. I didn't even I didn't take it that way. You're good. ⁓
Josué (34:04)
Right, and so then you don't do it right, like you stop yourself. That's not what I'm trying to I that's not what I was what I was getting at, with the idea of mourning people that you've never met. ⁓
Rae Hoover (34:14)
Yeah.
And and I said the that word specifically of mourning because there is like a a ⁓ a crumb of sadness there. Like in that like I wish I could have met these people. I wish I could have connected with them. I wish I could have known them in any way like I feel like I'm getting to know them through what I'm finding. And in a lot of like, especially with the stuff I uncovered this year, like sometimes literally uncovered, we
were digging things in up in graveyards, like headstones that had been like buried. not like illegally or anything, just literally like uncovering the like the No, no, nothing's illegal here. It it's my family, so like, you know, they literally had just gotten buried.
Josué (34:45)
Nobody said anything nobody said anything was illegal. What are you talking about?
I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not gonna comment on on that
You said they're family, so it's okay and I said, I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not go but I I'm not gonna comment on whether that's okay or not.
Rae Hoover (35:00)
That's fair. Yeah. Yeah,
I mean, if anything, it's just the the lawnmowers had just buried them over time with in in a little little bit of dirt. And I'm pretty sure I'm the first person to lay eyes on some of the headstones of my family members in probably a generation. I don't know the last person who was there, honestly.
Yeah, yeah, there's that like crumb of sadness, but it's in a similar way, I think, to Frieren. I I I relate heavily to Frieren and I see myself in this journey that I'm going on in this genealogy in Frieren's kind of like at least the start of the story, at least the start of the journey here. I don't think that's where it it ends or is the only place it goes by any means. There's so much more that happens. but I I see that in the way that she used reconnecting with Himmel.
And going like, ⁓ yeah. Okay. Yeah. I see. I I get it. I didn't know this about you That's how I'm feeling. And it's like, I wish I wish I got a chance to know these people, but it's not devastating sadness. It's it's just that desire of like, man, that that could have been cool.
Josué (36:01)
Yeah.
That does open my perspective on grief a little wider.
Rae Hoover (36:11)
Yeah, yeah, grief is a a lot of things in society consider grief to be a very open and shut, like on or off. I mean that's you could look at many things as all or nothing. ⁓ I think society does that a lot nowadays. It's like you are either doing this thing, you are this thing, or you aren't or you aren't doing this thing. And ⁓ no, there's a lot more nuance and there's lot more gray when it comes to pretty much anything, but definitely grief.
it's not a process that once you do it, then you kind of wash your hands of and you're like, okay, I'm done. I'm never doing that again for this person. It's like, nope, that shit's gonna keep coming back up. It's gonna stick with you forever. It doesn't matter. and once you start like viewing grief that way, you you see it in a lot of other places, places you didn't previously associate with grief.
But in a way, a lot of really cool, beautiful things can come out of that grief and the constant concept of it coming back up and reconnecting with it.
Sorry, I threw a lot of words at you and I can tell you're kind of just processing right now.
Josué (37:08)
I'm I'm reading through another definition of ⁓ just just just of grief in general, right? To to see if maybe maybe there's more maybe you threw words at me. I think and we need more words to differentiate some of the things that we're that we're that we're talking about. Yeah. Again, I I do think I would I would absolutely a hundred percent if I had a client
Rae Hoover (37:10)
Okay.
Rap battle.
Mm-hmm.
Josué (37:37)
Who was in a stage of you know bereavement, if there was grief, if they mentioned great loss, I would absolutely recommend Frieren as an example of how to
Rae Hoover (37:43)
the other word.
Josué (37:52)
Not just how to remember but how to ⁓ what's the word? like honor someone's memory. Because the the story is full of it, not only from Frieren, but the entire world, right? Because Himmel is the one that we that we're referring to and Frieren has a very unique relationship with Himmel.
Rae Hoover (37:59)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Josué (38:15)
And
so the entire world remembers him differently. And many towns have statues in his honor. There are festivals in honor of the heroes. There are rituals. There are so many different ways that people ha have honored this particular hero. Which again I th I to me falls more in line with what ⁓ Frieren is doing.
Because I don't think those people are mourning his loss, right? They don't they don't and for some of them it they don't they've never met him. For some of them it is an act of gratitude, of appreciation, of remembering this guy saved our town. You know, like he saved our lives and we have stories that we can tell and we like and we celebrate him, right? And so that's that's a word I haven't used yet. But to me, Frieren feels like a s like yeah, like it's like a she's celebrating.
Rae Hoover (38:46)
No.
Mm-hmm.
Celebrate.
Josué (39:13)
Himmel. She's celebrating all of these things beforehand in a way that she she probably didn't wasn't doing it before, right? But it is very much like a ⁓ I've used r you know, remembering, revisiting, recontextualizing, but like it does feel like a celebration as well.
Rae Hoover (39:16)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Exactly, exactly. I appreciate you throwing those words out there 'cause yeah, bereavement was one that I completely forgot. And that's and that that that's a big like I I took a class in grad school that was grief and loss counseling specifically, and they had definitions for grief, mourning, bereavement. They all meant slightly different things. I can't
Josué (39:36)
Got words too.
Rae Hoover (39:57)
freaking remember what they were at the moment. I'll put it in the show notes. I'll if I can find it. words are hard. I say that all the time. Words are yeah fair. No words are very hard. English is a terrible language. but yeah yeah like they all had different meanings and I forget exactly which one meant which I think
Josué (40:00)
Words are hard.
It's not I'm not disappointed at you. It's hard, yeah. That's why I'm shaking my head. Not at you.
Rae Hoover (40:18)
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna make myself look like more of an ass by getting it wrong further. but yeah, like I love that you brought up celebration, because that's exactly what this is. And that's exactly what the like gratitude and celebration, that's exactly what my practice of of doing this genealogy stuff is. Like it's celebrating, you know, where I came from. It's discovering that, it's curiosity, it's it's exciting. Like when I've when I come across some of these documents and and information, I am
I'm hootin' and hollering. I am in awe of learning where I come from. I discovered what my great great grandfather's immigration documents in Ellis Island. and that was such a cool moment. I was just like, what? I've been looking for that casually for years. I knew that he was, an immigrant.
but I hadn't found it. And it like there was a like a plot twist there. he got processed through New York and Ellis Island, but then he got bumped up to Boston. And so that's why I wasn't able to find anything. It was just this cool moment of holy shit. So like that's that's the celebration. That's gratitude. I think that's what Frieren does really well.
Josué (41:28)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, I think so too.
Yeah, that's why to me the show like I've cried a lot watching this show, but it they've never been sad tears. Not once. It's always like damn. I and it's to me the show this is I've talked about life and death so much on this show. On this one in particular. On my views, on my views, ⁓
Rae Hoover (41:43)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Josué (42:02)
in it. And over time I've I've become
I I'm very intentional about the attention that I give people. And a part of that is because I like to me it is helpful to think that I may never see this person ever again. And if I'm never going to see this person ever again.
Rae Hoover (42:14)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Josué (42:31)
Why not do have like the maximum version of this experience? And that that usually translates into
Rae Hoover (42:37)
Exactly.
Josué (42:43)
No, this can go on for longer than we originally planned. Right? meeting a friend. I'm going to do my best to not have anything scheduled afterwards because I want to leave that open to the possibility of
Rae Hoover (42:54)
Mm-hmm.
Josué (42:59)
It's not just like, we're having lunch. It's like it could be lunch and dinner. It's like it's
Rae Hoover (43:02)
Yeah, could be lunch and we just
sit here until dinner service and then just order another meal.
Josué (43:07)
Right, right. I've I've had that happen before because I think that's that's good. And and then there are people that I I'm like that in general, but with people who I actually truly have relationships that I deem extremely important, people that I care about, I especially am I will choose them first. And part of that
Rae Hoover (43:09)
Same.
Mm-hmm.
Josué (43:30)
I I don't know where it came from, but I've I forgot the name of this book that's about that's about interviews with people on their deathbeds. and or just not just literally on their deathbed, like, you know, in hospice later in life, like end of life. And it's about what do they regret the most? And again, there's a particular book and I I th and it
Rae Hoover (43:41)
Mm.
Josué (43:59)
the some of the questions that come is like I wish I had played more. I wish I had worked less. I wish I had spent more time with friends and family. Right. I think about those things. Yeah. I mean it's like it's pretty universal. And so I I don't even think about it that much anymore. It's just like it's like, ⁓ this is important. We're meeting. Let's do this. I'm gonna give you my attention.
Rae Hoover (44:03)
Yep. Yep. That's like always it.
Yeah.
Josué (44:21)
that I'm gonna give you my time. Equally, I mean the same thing, opposite. If it's not going well, I'm cutting it short because there are other things that I could do more important. But if it's like, this feels important, this feels meaningful, why not? You know, because I don't know when we'll be able to do this again. I would like to I would like to build a positive memory for the future.
Rae Hoover (44:29)
Exactly.
Josué (44:41)
I've heard the term like fatalistic, right? Like I'm constantly thinking about ⁓ I'm constantly thinking about death in in the way that like I could die, you could die, like it could be over, you know? Or I could just never see you again. Like like in any potential way. So try to make that moment meaningful, right? Like try to make these interactions meaningful. So watching
Frieren , she didn't she she she didn't do that the first time around.
Rae Hoover (45:12)
Yeah.
Josué (45:14)
I wasn't like this when I was younger, right?
Rae Hoover (45:18)
I
have questions if you were. Like that's not that's not not how that usually goes.
Josué (45:20)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Eventually I got to the point where I like, I'm thinking I'm I'm gonna reprioritize things and
Rae Hoover (45:29)
Yeah. I imagine that would be after
a loss or two t as well.
Josué (45:33)
I don't know. I can't pinpoint it to a particular loss.
Rae Hoover (45:40)
Yeah.
Josué (45:41)
by the time my mom died, which was the one that really impacted me, I think I was pretty ⁓
Rae Hoover (45:44)
Yeah.
Josué (45:50)
in my relationship with death and loss up to that point where I did a lot of the and I just found this term, ⁓ anticipatory grief. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did that really well. Like the there are members of my family who still have very huge regrets and are dealing with how they spent time with my mom.
Rae Hoover (45:59)
That's it. That's it. What I would say, pre grief, that's what I meant.
Josué (46:19)
during the last years of her life. I have zero regret about that. I was like I am proud of everything that I did those those last few years and and and before too because I had that out of so I was like, Mom, I don't know when I'm gonna see you again. And it was always like I don't it had more to do, I think, with separation.
Rae Hoover (46:24)
Exactly. Exactly.
Hell yeah.
⁓
Josué (46:48)
Because like as a kid who's like parents are divorced, moved around a lot, it was like I'm gonna I wanna make sure that this this is really where that this comes from. I've I've I've thought about this before, I couldn't remember when we were talking about earlier. But it it comes from that. Right? It's like I don't know when I'm gonna move. Literally before we recorded, I was telling you how I'm gonna move again, right? ⁓ it's just like acros like across town. It's not that big of a deal. ⁓ it's actually it's just a couple blocks away, it's not even that far.
Rae Hoover (46:51)
You've moved around a ton.
Makes sense. Yeah.
Yeah.
Josué (47:16)
but I am gonna move again, right? And so I do do a lot of that like, like I'm just gonna go I'm just gonna go all in now. Why not? Because then I'd rather do that now than have regrets later. And so I I very rarely have regrets, like real regrets. It's been a long time. And yeah.
Rae Hoover (47:37)
Yeah. I live exactly the same way.
Josué (47:42)
Yeah. So so when I watch Frieren , right? Like I see her like, she didn't do that the first time around. But the second time around she's remembering everything. She's enjoying it. She's she's she's rediscovering and she's celebrating. She's it's it's more meaningful. And I mean and actually we we see she they don't do this explicitly for this reason, but it happens a lot where they like they go into a town and it's like, Hey, it's gonna take a while.
She's like, it's okay. We can stay here for a month. And now part of that is like her perception of time is still weird, right? So because like her companions are like, We're gonna be here for three months? Like that's a long time. She's like, it's nothing. And it's it's it's not for her. ⁓ but there's also I I feel like she's like, there's so much we can do here, right? Like there's so like we can enjoy it now in a way that I don't think that well, she we know because we see the flashbacks. I don't know if this was clear, but the whole show
Rae Hoover (48:18)
Yeah.
Josué (48:37)
She is not when she whenever she is revisiting places from before, we do see flashbacks constantly. We see them from both perspectives. ⁓ mostly from now, but it's it's her gaining these insights by having the previous memory and and the new context and the new ⁓ experiences that she's had that she has now, which is ⁓ really
Rae Hoover (48:43)
Yeah, lots of flashbacks.
Mm-hmm.
Josué (49:05)
Again, I think it's fun to see. So probably because you and I at least try to live our lives this way, it's really fucking cool to see a show like this. Cause I I also relate to to to Frieren rent. I think maybe maybe for exactly the same reasons, but I'm still gonna say for different reasons. Right? Like coming at it from different angles, but I think for the s for the same experiences for sure. Yeah. Cause I
Rae Hoover (49:13)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. That's like vindication.
Sure. Yeah.
Exactly.
Josué (49:35)
We we'll see. I may be wrong, but she doesn't she isn't explicitly again that that word mourning, it's all like it's it's all positive. Even even the somber moments are more of her lost in thought, remembering. Like this happens actually constantly in the show, right? Where somebody's like, Are you okay? And she's just like half smiling because she's also like not super expressive. ⁓
Rae Hoover (49:46)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Josué (50:04)
She's like half smiling 'cause she just like had an insight or had a memory or recontextualized something and understood like, again, that moment of like, he told me he loved me and I didn't and didn't even realize it. What a guy. What a guy of that Himmel Yep. Again, not damn it, I missed my chance. Ugh, I was so stupid. Right? There's never I don't remember her doing that so far. And
Rae Hoover (50:18)
Mm-hmm. That Himmel. That darn Himmel
Yeah. Yeah.
No. No, no, no.
Josué (50:34)
And I love the idea of her. I don't know if this is actually gonna happen, but our mission that we're on, the show, right? The party is to go to this place where you can speak with the dead. And if that's actually going to happen, if it's actually possible, if it's true, I would love to see I I can't wait to see what them reconnecting would be like. That might destroy me.
Rae Hoover (51:01)
It I
yeah.
Josué (51:04)
And just because of like I think it would be so funny. In and I mean him funny in like like he would be like, it only took you a hundred years to to notice, right? And she would be like, You're not gonna believe like how how stupid this is, how ridiculous this is. Right, like I feel like it'll be something their version of that, you know?
Rae Hoover (51:16)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Josué (51:28)
Actually this is like a tangent, like a like a side thing. But I I saw this clip going around on on TikTok and ⁓ social media on the of they interviewed they interviewed
what's his name? The actor married to Uma Thurman?
Rae Hoover (51:47)
⁓
Josué (51:48)
Ethan Hawk. Ethan Hawk.
They interviewed Ethan Hawk on like a red carpet or something. And I think the question was about unrequited love.
And he said, you know, the one who loves always wins, I was like, shit. And I think why their reconnecting would be so good to see is because I think it would be funny in the in the sense of like joyful, right? That she comes to this realization.
And he never needed her to realize it because he loved her from the beginning and he was absolutely fine with it. And like he he actually got to experience loving her and he never needed her to love him back in return. And it was it's like so beautiful. So I think I think it would destroy me when I see that kind of play out, if if it actually happens. I'm crying now. I don't know what to say. Just thinking about it. It's cool.
Rae Hoover (52:27)
Exactly. Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. I and like I think this whole process,
like that's a good way of f of looking at it. That this whole process that she's going through is not only learning and reconnecting with Himmel and learning about him, but it's she's she's loving him. maybe if you want to use the concept of falling in love. I don't know if any of this is going to be in a romantic sense. It doesn't even need to be. She's just learning to love her her friend, her companion. And
Yeah, that could be romantic, that could be platonic. But she's just learning about loving him.
Josué (53:20)
That's a great point. because of how not emotive she is. I I'm not confident enough to say that we have enough information to say that she's falling in love with him. I stand by the celebration, I stand by the appreciation, I stand by the gratitude, I stand by the
Rae Hoover (53:34)
Yeah. They're just not Yeah.
Josué (53:42)
every positive word, right? But I don't I also don't think that it's she's like retroactively falling ⁓ in love. I think there is like there is something like she's ⁓ she's understanding what was what happened, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like, ⁓ I was loved. I didn't realize that's what was happening.
Rae Hoover (53:48)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. I
Yeah, c crazy concept being loved, imagine.
Yeah, I don't think it's necessarily
Josué (54:08)
Hey, that's hard for some people to understand.
Rae Hoover (54:11)
yeah, yeah. I did I did say the show was about like, you know, allowing yourself to be cared for and caring for others and learning about that. And I think that I think that's really what we're kind of like hitting on here is that she's learning how to care for other people and learning how to be cared about.
Josué (54:12)
Lot of people.
Rae Hoover (54:27)
Whether that's love, platonic, ⁓ romantic, whatever. I don't think it's a like you said, I I I'm not invested in the idea that it's a retroactive, like falling in romantic love sense. But I don't know. Have you ever had that experience where, you know, you you learn something about maybe a friend or a family member and you have that moment of just like, wow, I didn't know that about you and it like changes how you feel about them positively.
Josué (54:53)
Well, I mean, I've had the literal experience on more than one occasion of discovering after the fact that someone had a crush on me and me being completely oblivious. That that has I can relate to that one, Frieren. and but in those cases, some of them, I did I did grieve the loss.
Rae Hoover (55:04)
Fair.
Josué (55:22)
Because I did think shit. I could have had something. Like there could have been something different. I don't think Frieren would go there. I think it would be okay if she I would be okay if that happened. Where she's like retroactively falling in love and then having a moment of like I missed out and I wish things I wish I could have lived that experience.
Rae Hoover (55:27)
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, Frieren r
Yeah.
Josué (55:48)
I would be okay if she because I think it would be a a new level of emotional growth for her. Right. But I'm also okay if her realization, if she doesn't take that turn in that direction and the turn goes in the other dire, it just continues in the direction of of like this is what being in love feels like. And this feels really good. Like I would hope that the show would go in that direction because that's what it's been doing all this time. Every learning
Rae Hoover (55:55)
Yes.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Josué (56:18)
is again appreciated. Every learning is growth and she's gaining something every time. she it's never shown as she is ⁓ there's no regret. There's no ⁓ there's no perceived loss from from from I missed out. I I've had that experience but
Rae Hoover (56:39)
Yeah. Yeah.
I can do you one better. There was there was one time, I think, in like junior high or high school that me and someone we both had crushes on each other and then didn't fucking tell the other one. Yeah. It wasn't even that I missed it. It was we both were actively crushing on the other one and then neither of us had the had the guts to actually like say anything. And it was like, why didn't you tell me?
Josué (56:54)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've had I've had yeah, those
Yeah. I only had that happen twice explicitly.
Yeah. And after have you know, having that exact conversation of like really? Like, ⁓
Rae Hoover (57:13)
Yeah.
Josué (57:15)
Well it's a little late now. Yeah. Yeah. Damn.
Rae Hoover (57:16)
Yeah. Yeah. It's like ⁓ well shit.
But yeah. One last final thought here I wanna throw out there. We were kind of circling around this concept. We didn't say the these words. I think Frieren is about living in the present moment.
Josué (57:35)
Mm.
You think that a show about reflecting on the past is about living in the present moment? A hundred percent. Yeah. Cause she's learning that she didn't really do that before. And now she's learning to do it. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. And I think living in the moment the a part of that is
Rae Hoover (57:42)
Weirdly enough, yeah. Hundred percent. Like
Exactly. Yep. Yep.
Josué (57:57)
It's
We can learn from the past without living in the past, right?
Rae Hoover (58:01)
Exactly.
Josué (58:03)
She's always gaining from again, I I said that before, right? I think she's learning to live in the moment and not she's not living in the past. She's absolutely recognizing and appreciating the past to the benefit of her present.
Rae Hoover (58:21)
Exactly. Exactly.
Josué (58:22)
Because
there's no there's no regret.
Again, I don't think she's grieving a past, right, that she didn't have. it's so much gratitude. Right. there's no sadness there of what was. Always an appreciation of what is
Rae Hoover (58:35)
Yeah.
Josué (58:37)
Again, it's that thing of
I could go back to a place that I had visited before with different intentions. And her intentions are always, again, celebratory. I want to share this with new people. to me, it always seems like a positive visiting and never
Rae Hoover (58:50)
Yeah.
Josué (58:58)
I'm going to go and try to relive something, differently, or I'm going to go even again, I don't think that mourning and grieving is bad because I do think we're we're saying that's absolutely healthy to come face to face with it, whether it's literally there, right, or symbolic as in
like a tomb or a or a headstone or or you're v revisiting a location, right? facing something that way can be a part of that process, right? Can help you in that process. you're not avoiding it. But yeah, I do I agree with you. It is about living in the moment.
Rae Hoover (59:37)
Yeah.
It's very much about living in the moment. And yeah, if you live in the moment, you live with intention, that's the best way to go about it and have no regrets in life or minimal regrets. I think that's how we go about the about life, you know, both of us.
Josué (59:53)
It seems to be a healthy way to do that. to to do things. We're not saying we're we're we're we do this a hundred percent of the time. We're not saying that it's easy, but I know what it feels like to not be able to do that, to struggle with that, and it sucks. I know what it's like to live in the future, right? And be super anxious, always worrying about a future that's that's
Rae Hoover (1:00:05)
No.
Mm. Yeah. I would take
Josué (1:00:21)
That doesn't exist and I know and I yep. And I know what it's like to live in ⁓ in the past and just be sad and full of regrets about it as well. Yeah. Yeah. Frieren, what a show.
Rae Hoover (1:00:21)
Nah. Been there, done that, don't want it. Like
Exactly.
What a what a show. And it's it's beautiful. Like the art is phenomenal. The animations, the cinematics, like the fights and everything. They're not in it every episode, but man, when they go when they are in it, it is stunning. Two words stunning. Like that's how that's how beautiful it is. So
Josué (1:00:53)
Good, it's good.
Good.
Only season two is out so far as of this recording. And season three is like at least a year away, they've said. It's gonna be it's gonna take a while. I wouldn't be surprised if it's back in twenty twenty eight. Ooh I know.
Rae Hoover (1:01:01)
Up to season two.
Yeah. Yeah.
See you
gonna be mourning the the absence of Frieren for the next two years.
Josué (1:01:19)
I have two seasons that I can revisit and enjoy. It's fine. I did rewatch season one before season two because ⁓ I like it a lot. Okay. All right.
Rae Hoover (1:01:21)
Yeah, that's true. That's true.
Mm.
All right. So are you gonna name something for next time or are you done with that?
Josué (1:01:36)
I I don't think I should commit to something. Because the only thing I can think of is I'm not sure if Frieren is my favorite show or if Attack on Attack on Titan is my favorite show. And I I'm okay with spoiling Frieren, but I will never spoil any part of Attack on Titan for anybody. Because
Rae Hoover (1:01:59)
Damn, okay. Line has
been drawn.
Josué (1:02:02)
Because that is an experience and the themes that are in that show are actually ⁓
Rae Hoover (1:02:04)
Yeah.
Josué (1:02:10)
It is nothing like Frieren It is very I don't think it's a GT episode, me geeking out about Attack on Titan.
Rae Hoover (1:02:11)
No.
Josué (1:02:17)
I don't have a specific ⁓ topic right now. So I'm not going to commit. Yes, I'm not gonna commit. I'm gonna leave it there. Otherwise I'm just gonna keep debating whether or not to do it for the next five minutes. And I'm not gonna do that anymore. Thank you for listening to us talk about Frieren , which may or may not be my favorite show, but it's definitely in the top two. It's fantastic. Go watch it.
Rae Hoover (1:02:29)
That's fair.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Josué (1:02:41)
Let us know what you think. Let us know how you feel about some of these topics. And also, I guess we're open to suggestions because we're no longer going to commit to the show. I would love suggestions on things to cover and episodes to do. For more Otaku Ryoho visit otaku.geektherapy.org. ⁓ or visit geektherapy.org for links to everything that we are.
Rae Hoover (1:02:55)
Yeah.
Josué (1:03:10)
working on and up to. Remember to geek out and do good and we'll be back next time.
Rae Hoover (1:03:16)
All right, toodles.