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Dr. Jack V. Kirnan shares the transformational story of his 34-day trek of walking the Camino trail and how it impacted his life and continues to impact his personal life and business almost a year later.
Show Notes
In This Episode:
- Jack discusses his trip walking the Camino in August of 2021.
- Dr. Jack Kirnan today specializes in helping folks explore new ideas and pathways to find success. Jack brings over 30 years of personal experience, financial services, and education to his professional coaching and counseling practice in New Jersey.
- Jack shares what the experience of walking the Camino had in his practice and in his life.
- This was a 34-day trek of challenging hiking at an elevation change of 4,000 feet. He trained extensively before the trip.
- Jack shares compelling stories of lessons learned along the way during his Camino experience.
- Friends met along the way
- Conversations about challenges, family, and work
- During the second phase of the Camino, you are walking through the Spanish Desert. It's hot and challenging and a great place for personal reflection. For Jack, it was grieving the loss of his brother and, later, his dream job.
- Jack shares how he carried four rocks for the first 25 days of the walk to have the experience of laying them down at the Cruz de Ferro.
- One of his main takeaways was learning to be in the present.
- We hear so many behind-the-scenes stories of the Christmas Carol throughout the years, from provisions cast members who have gone on to stardom to meeting members of the Charles Dickens family.
Quotes from This Episode:
"Pilgrims from all over the world walk the Camino for various personal reasons. However, everyone is seeking their own way toward clarity or a better understanding of a major loss or event in their lives." - Jack Kirnan.
Links To Things We Talk About:
- Walking the Camino
- Kirnan Coaching Associates, LLC - Creating New Pathways in Life and Career
- The Way with Martin Sheen
- Mi Buen Camino: The Place Where Everyone Becomes Your Brother and Sister - A Documentary about Jack's experience
- Jack Kirnan on LinkedIn
Episode Info:
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Join the 3rd Act Community to bring together connections, good stories, and a shared mission to help others.
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What is 3rd Act?
Welcome to the third act podcast. Shining a spotlight on individuals, charities, and small business owners suffering from illness, economic shutdown, or lack of support and funding. Meaningful conversations that generate compassion and financial support from listeners compelled to join us on this journey to share life experiences that improve the lives of others.
Roger: Welcome everyone to a new third ACT podcast recorded on Friday, October 21st, 2022. I'm extremely happy to share the podcast today with an old friend that will hopefully touch you and inspire you to do whatever it takes to let go of your burdens you have been carrying all your life.
My friend Jack Ker and I shared the same New York City office in the mid 1990. We both worked at Solomon Brothers. We laughed recently when we went back in our memory banks to recall some great visits we had together to Lansing, Michigan to see our mutual friend and client Al Van nor who covered the auto companies as Jack did.
But also was manager of the research shop at the State of Michigan Retirement Pension Fund for many years. Those days were memorable, but the story Jack is about to share today is truly inspirational in so many ways that will become clear in a few minutes. Dr. Jack Kernin today specializes in helping folks explore new ideas and pathways to find success.
Through his professional coaching and counseling practice in New Jersey, Jack brings to his practice over 30 years of personal experience and financial services and education. His story is remarkable to me in many ways, but one of the most impactful is that he shares his own personal issues throughout his life with his clients, friends and family.
In an honest and straightforward manner, the honesty and personal reflections of his life provide great lessons we all can use to relieve our own issues we all carry with us. I know his current calling and purpose was enhanced by walking the Camino Des Santiago for 34 days that covered 484 miles beginning in the Perine Mountains of France.
With the final destination, the Cathedral of St. James in Santiago, Spain. One of the reasons I instantly took to Jack's memories and his documentary was I was fortunate to do a mini Camino trek of my own with a good friend at 2014. I do have a nice signed certificate. On my office behind me, but my gosh, Jack blew me away and his Camino experience gets a double thumbs up from me for the time and commitment it took. So it is with great pleasure that introduce Jack to the Third ACT community and say Welcome and thank you for taking the time to share your story. you, Jack.
Jack: Oh thank you Roger. And what a blessing to reconnect with you after, Oh, God. 20 plus years since the last time we had actually seen each other more than 20 years.
Roger: It has
Jack: and so I'm really. I'm just absolutely delighted and grateful that that you reached out to me for today. So thanks.
Roger: Thank you. Let's get into it. It should be a fun fun time. I think the best place to start, if you don't mind is to share with the community. What was the initial inspiration and desire to walk the keynote? It take, you just can't. Do this on the fly. It takes preparation, takes training, but what was the inspiration and why did you decide to do it in the first place?
Jack: Thanks for that question because it is I think for everybody, Roger the Camino becomes very personal. Why you do it when you do it. The why of it really goes back probably 12 or 13 years ago. I had started to get very involved. After I finished my last Dean's job in education, I had started getting very involved in a lot of church life.
Became very involved in Catholic Charities was a trustee for many years there. I just recently stepped down back in back in June. Do a lot of work for my parish and diocese and, I've met people who had done the Camino and then , the real incentive came back in, I guess about 2012.
My wife and I went to see the movie The Way with Martin Sheen. And I remember , I can still remember driving home from the theater that night and turning to her and. Gene I got I gotta figure out a way to do this. It was a mesmerizing movie for me, incredibly well acted. One of the great storylines in the movie is the relationship that Martin Sheen had with his son, and I don't wanna give it away in case anyone.
Has not seen it. But that really became a, an inspiration for me. And the challenge was just figuring out when can I do it? Cause I had been fairly busy in this new period of my life. I'm very grateful for that. But the moon, the sun, and the stars, as they say, they all seem to line.
For a trip in in late August of 2021. So that's a little bit of the background of the of the why of how it connected with me.
Roger: And you write in your documentary, which is so great, but you write that pilgrims from all Over the World. They walk the Camino for various personal reasons. However, everyone is seeking their own way toward clarity or a better understanding of a major loss or event in their lives. Can you just talk about that little comment bond that you and other people you met, other pilgrims on your trek experienced a little bit, please.
Jack: Absolutely. I one of the great blessings for me walking the camino was just the sheer number. Of people from around the world I had a chance to meet and interact with and get to know fairly well. It's amazing , how well you can meet, how well you can know someone in a very short period of time.
Having been a financial analyst where you pride yourself on being able to make a good presentation to clients so they understand what the what the idea is and what the action point is. I was just amazed that on the cam. You could literally meet a stranger from somewhere else around the world.
This happened many times for me, and literally within a minute you are talking about intimate details of your life to people that back home, I never would've shared with. There's just, that's some of the magic that happens. You just get extremely comfort. Sharing your story. And I think for most people, Roger one of the things that happens is you get energized listening to other people's struggles, other people's challenges.
People come and walk for a variety of reasons. For me, it was very religious. I knew I had some work to. In terms of the relationship that I want to have with with God. And I had a very strict purpose in mind. I wanted to let go of a lot of things that I've struggled with in my life, but listening to other people coming from a difficult marriage, difficult relationship, having just lost the job having lost somebody in their life to cancer it's just amazing.
And through that experience, I think it really humanizes you in a. that I certainly never experienced before in anything else I ever did before walking the. .
Roger: That's great. We'll discuss the walk in more detail but then I would like for you to share what that experience has meant to your life and your coaching practice. When we we get through the walking portion or the observed. From the walk, but let's talk a little bit right off the bat from phase one.
The first day you frame it yourself as testing my physical threshold for pain. I giggled, or I could feel that vision very much but this is a 34 day trek. It's not, a walk around the park, but talk about that first day, what you knew was ahead of you, what you found, and how that came about.
Please,
Jack: Yeah, the first day was, without a doubt, the most challenging. And I think the reason why it was so challenging for me, first of all, you're walking an elevation change of 4,000 feet. You're walking up the purees you're going from France to Spain during that first that first trek of the of the Camino.
And to, to start for openers. First of all, I was in great physical shape. I did a lot of training. I used to run marathons. I can't do that anymore, but I did a lot of training. I walked, on average probably eight or nine miles a day for about a year before I went. I used to swim three or four days a week.
So physically I really felt like I was up for it. But I've also, I have to be honest I've like a lot of people suffered from anxiety and I was really anxious that first day because first of. It's pouring rain out . And as I'm walking up, this steep ascent for lack of a better phrase I had an anxiety attack.
I had a panic attack, and in my head I couldn't help but think. Oh my God, I just came all this way. I prepared all this time and I'm not even gonna make it through the first day. And I really feel so lucky that there were several women I was walking with that day who also were struggling. . And so we stopped for coffee.
It's pouring rain out and a couple of them are like, I just, I don't think I'm gonna be able to make it. Cuz we had really the lions share that first day still ahead of us with the pouring rain. And one of them came up with the suggestion, why don't we just take a cab to on Saal, which is where the next stop was.
I will be forever grateful for them to them because I don't know if I would've been able to make it, if I decided to try to do it and be my stubborn Irish self best decision I made and looking back grateful because I was able to finish the rest of the 33 stages. But that was an eye opener to me.
And sometimes in the past when I've had a real panic. I shut down and I don't do what I know I'm supposed to do. So I was very proud of myself in that moment for being able to work through it, and I had some really great people to help me work through it. So really great experience that first day.
Roger: , that's great. And you just mentioned, you had this torrential downpour, limited visibility. The terrain was difficult, you were going up. Pill, Oh God. 4,000 feet. Oh, my, I can just visualize the whole thing. And , I'm I'm glad you pursued and took the smart choice to to get to your destination for the next leg, so to speak.
But let's talk a little bit about , as you start the 34 day walk, the Camino you get into what is. It becomes real to you. You feel it. It's not easy but you meet people. You talk about in your documentary meeting Annie and ESL and how they helped you along the way, but talk about that camaraderie and some of the people that helped you in that kind of first phase.
Get through that if you don't mind.
Jack: Oh, absolutely. I'm so glad you asked that question because the three gentlemen I'm gonna I'm gonna mention have become great friends in the aftermath of this experience. But yeah, the evening of day one little did I know that there are two people across the table I was sitting at and I had seen them earlier.
The walk in day one, they're, I'm guessing, older than me. That's what I'm saying to myself. And they're having a nice conversation and I'm like, Wow, these guys made it. And I wonder, they probably did. I, I had to take a taxi from . From Orison. So anyway, the next day two, I see them on the trail and we start chatting and I learn that their names are Mike.
And we walk along and then there's a third gentleman who comes along the way. So it was a group of four of us that kind of started to walk together, but the next I guess it was four days together the third gentleman's name was Mike. And lo and behold, what happens is at dinner, I think it was on the third night, I find out , that Dan and Mike are priests.
Roger: Oh gosh,
Jack: have guess it wouldn't have guess it. So felt like I had the Holy Spirit, with me the rest of the way. But we had such a great time together. I ended up going further ahead from the two priests after, I think it was about the fifth or sixth day I was going a little faster.
And then my other friend, Mike from the west coast he's. The marketing business, we've just remained extremely close since then. But we just were there for each other. We shared a lot of personal challenges that we've had in each of our lives. A lot of conversations about family. The priests were talking a lot of the challenges they've had in ministry work.
And that's a microcosm of really what happens, whoever you meet. It's amazing how deep you can get in conversation very quickly. There's a bonded trust in some ways is, it takes longer when you're back in real time and, my little neck of the woods here in New Jersey.
Just a beautiful moment. Those first four or five days after the the challenge on day one and that's that I think really gave me a lot of momentum from that point forward. I was able to, get through the different terrain, the cumulative. Of walking on average 13 or 14 miles.
After, six or seven days in that first phase of the the camino you're almost knocking on the door of 90 miles already and you're getting tired with each additional day, but you're also getting more motivation because you're like, Yeah, I can do this. And you've got people that are helping to carry you, just like God carries us when we have challenges in our lives.
Thanks for asking that. Those, the three great guys. We've we've remained in touch ever since, and I'm grateful for.
Roger: That's great. That's great. Let's get into a little bit of phase two as you write about that you start to tap into your emotions and your feelings that you say and you write have remained below the surface for most of your life, but was really the purpose of your Camino in the first place.
Can you just talk. That You just talked about it with your conversations with your new friends, but how they, you felt the freedom to talk candidly and expressively about your issues and how that started to come out or come to the surface, so to speak.
Jack: Thanks for that question, Roger. Yeah, the the way I describe phase two is this. Section of the Camino Francis, which is the the route that I took. It's a section of of the Camino that is literally going through the Spanish desert, the Maita. And I recommend to anyone who can find the time to walk the Camino that you try and walk a variety of those stages.
A variety of those days. I should say there's about 12, 13 days in that, in, in that segment. To try to walk by yourself. And that's what really happened to me. Cause some people skip that part because it's hot, it's challenging. There's not a lot of places to stop for a cold drink. So know, you really gotta be willing to, to put up with the the challenge.
But for me it was really the best part because it allowed me to go deep. And I think what happens on the Camino is your physical. Challenge starts to break you down. It starts to really tap into why am I doing this? How do I feel? What about some of these things that have happened in my past? Maybe I need to explore these things.
And for me, the two things that have always been the two biggest events in my life that were a challenge is losing my brother. My older brother, who was my best friend he passed away unexpectedly when he was a sophomore in. And that had a dramatic effect on me in the latter stages of, I was in latter stages of high school at the time.
And the second thing was me losing the dream job that I always wanted on Wall Street. I ran a research department at Credit Swiss after I left Solomon Brothers. I loved that job. I was, in the top e alone of the senior management of the firm. And when I was restructured it really changed me in a lot of ways.
I, I went very internal. I, had anger issues. I was depressed wouldn't see anybody despite the great efforts of my wife, who by the way, is a psychologist and a very successful one. And so what happened on this part of the walk was all of these feelings I had for my brother, all of these feelings I had for that.
And the realization that had really affected me. And I never grieved the loss of my brother. I never grieved the loss of my job. And the maeda allowed me to grieve it allowed me to really explore in a deeper way, feelings that I had that really needed to come out. Things that were always below the surface.
And any time I scratched. I would usually stop cuz I was afraid to go there. And for me it was a seminal moment because it helped me get to stage three, which is the stage where, for me, there was a spiritual reawakening of what I'm supposed to do now at this, with this part of my life.
So I'm I highly recommend that stage. I think I've shared this with so many people in the last year who've also. Very similar experience. There's something magical that happens during the messa that allows you to really go deep into your inner soul and tap those feelings that maybe you need to get out.
So very grateful for that.
Roger: And then you, you talk and part of the, your writings about actually doing a video into your camera and expressing your. About Dennis, your brother, about your mom and dad and those feelings you just touched on, but can you just, maybe you. Tell the audience a little bit more. It was very poignant and important to me to read about your relationship with your brother, but also how that left you feeling both empty, angry, and also trying to fill his shoes.
Jack: Thanks for that question too, Roger. It's a very important one. Guess what I'd like to say just initially, in answering that when I did my research on do I really wanna do a documentary, Because I actually have a lot more creativity than I ever realized , and my kids kid me about that.
Dad, you're pretty creative. Like you always say you weren't creative, like you're pretty creative. And when I did a lot of the research on some of the things that have, because if you go to Google or YouTube and you just, you type in Camino, there's a lot of video, but most of the video is about, okay, here's where you stay, here's what the food is.
I wanted people at least to see what happened to this pilgrim like I wanted them to see in real time. This is what happened to me. And I like to share things because I think that's what we're supposed to do. I think we're supposed to, share what happens in a way that maybe helps other people.
And being a coach, that's what coaching's all about. So that's a little bit of the backdrop. So I said, You know what? If I get one of these moments where I start breaking down and I start tapping into feeling. I'm getting the camera, I'm turning it on. I don't care. So I, I have all these video reflections taken in real time during the trip.
And the ones that really were for me really meaningful was talking into the camera and realizing, and I think I knew this, but I just never said it out loud, realizing that when my brother died, it really did change my life. Not only did I lose my best, But I did feel a lot of pressure. I felt like I had to now live the life he was supposed to live.
I felt a lot of pressure to take care of everybody. I've always been good taking care of my parents who are in heaven now. I felt a lot of financial pressure because we did have financial pressure growing up. And so that I carried with me really for the rest of my life. There was some really good things about.
But there were also some unfortunate things that put a lot of pressure on my kids as a doting parent. And I'm very sorry that there are things that I did that maybe put pressure on them because of things that had happened to me. And then as it relates to to my dad I got very emotion.
One day thinking about my dad is a remarkable example of transformation. He gave up drinking when he was 65 years old back in 1990 1990. And his example inspired me a year later to give up drinking as well, because that was one of my coping mechanism. I felt all this pressure, I felt, I had to do this for this person.
I had to do this for my family, and that was the way I coped instead of letting myself feel and maybe going and talking to somebody and doing healthier things. And I looked to my dad, who, for the rest of his life, he lived another 20 years alcohol free. And I'm now in year 32 of my sobriety and.
I thank my father. Every day on my Facebook page, there's a picture of me looking up at my dad. I'm gonna get very emotional cuz it does it, it really connects with me. It, it's a picture taken of me on my confirmation. I'm 12 years old and talk about a Kodak moment. My mom has the camera and she just happens to click the photo.
At this moment, I'm looking up to my. I've always looked up to my dad. I still look up to him, and I was inspired by him transforming his life. And during the Camino, I realized I need to do that too. I need to be a better person, a different person. The one God created to me to be. But I also need to leave behind the baggage.
I gotta get the baggage out, but I need to now move forward in a. I think he's calling me to be in the future. And so luckily for me that happened. , every day is a challenge, but we're working on it.
Roger: Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. It's very touching, but it moves into this next phase, which is the most, one of the most magical to me is that's when you started to walk, you did the cruise deffer, and I'll allow you to elaborate to our audience a little bit about that. But you stated, or you wrote that it allowed you to.
Really, I don't know. You called it a godsend and prepared you for. This special moment, which was day 25 of your Camino. So it wasn't to write off the the first few days, but can you elaborate on that? Talk about the experience give our audience a little bit of the flavor. I know a little bit about it cuz I've read your story and read up on it.
But talk about the cruise to federal, the shrine, so to speak. The symbolic nature of the rocks and relieving the burdens, I think that is so powerful. Please review that or talk a little bit about that, if you don't mind.
Jack: Yeah, that's that's powerful. I'm so glad that you you mentioned it. That's, there's so many great moments in anyone's Camino. The way I would when people ask me that, I'm like first of all, how much time do you have?
Roger: right.
Jack: Or I'll say have you ever been in the candy store when you were a little kid and dad, where your mom would say, Look, you can only get one thing in here.
Wait a minute. I like chuckles dots. I like the Baby Ruth bar. There's so many great moments, but a seminal moment clearly is Cruz de Farrow. I had done a lot of research on Cruz Crow's de Faro in the lead up to Walking Camino, and one of the beautiful things about it is it's a spiritual shrine.
and I believe that we all suffer burdens. We all carry things in the backpack of our life. And interesting the imagery, right? You're walking the Camino, you have a bag on your back, but the bag is really symbolic for things that happen in life. People, we lose jobs, we lose dreams that don't materialize.
Disappointment that the thing that I was hoping to happen, didn't happen. So in my case, and God bless my wife, I've been married, I'm fortunately married for 42 years to Jean. She's the greatest thing that ever happened to me. Greatest person that ever was ever put in front of me.
And she, she knows full well. So I brought four rocks and the story is that every rock that you bring to cruise, defer. Is representing a burden that's personal to you and the Lord. So I carried these four rocks from my hometown, Spring Lake, New Jersey. They're in my bag. They were on the airplane. They were at every place along the way.
And in that moment it was a very cloudy. Morning. I had the great fortune to walk with my friend Neil from Ireland, who I've still been in touch with since he's got an open invitation for me and Gene to go to, probably a little castle. He has . But anyway, he lost a brother too. Now, how weird is that?
He lost a brother, literally at the same age that I did. So we had this joint bond. We both go there together. He drops his rocks, I drop mine, and it was very powerful. And I think most of us, That whatever your faith is, somebody can forgive you, but often your church can forgive you. And my faith, the priest acts as the, the intermediary between you and God to forgive your sin.
But a lot of us struggle with forgiving ourselves, and this was the moment where I was really trying to ask the Lord God, am I really forgiven for some of the things that I've done that I'm sorry for? And my sense is I am. And the symbolic act of literally one moment of time throwing the rock at the shrine, it was powerful.
I'm just, I'm, I feel like my heart rate is racing. I'm, cuz I remember it
Time I every time I look at the picture, I'm like, ah. That was really great, wasn't it? And it just seemed like from that moment on, that was day 25, I think, to 34. So I had nine more days. I felt like I was flying, man. I was like, What do you mean I didn't, I already walked, like at that point, 300 miles.
I had a lot of, I had a lot of gas in the tank. I just felt my burden had been lifted. I felt lighter on my feet. It's seminal moment for me, and God, I hope. Who is listening? Who doesn't get a chance to do the full Camino? Check out Cruz de Farrell. It's a magical place.
Roger: No, that I love that. I really do. That's that's moving. And you talked about it just now, but you ha I can just see in your writing and feel it. You had this new energy that as you came down, as you still experienced a pretty difficult, decent to get down. You met some new people, which you could talk about if you wanted to go into that.
But what was really meaningful to me, or I took away is that, May this self-determination, I don't know if you actually thought about it until you did it, but you said you wanted to appreciate the now moments with other pilgrims of other associations, other people you met from all around the world.
Can you just talk about that a little bit? Cause I think that's really very special as well.
Jack: Yeah, thanks for for mention. Because I, I don't want to generalize, but I know for me, a lot of the way I handled my challenges we're not really healthy, right? Thankfully I stopped drinking. Not that I drank so much, there's a lot of family history and I'm like, eh, I don't want, I don't wanna be like other members of my family and wake up someday and have a problem.
But, I think a lot of people, when you have something that's burning inside of. And you're not willing to explore it. You're not willing to go deep, you hide it. You hide it by doing different things. So what did I did? I got wrapped up in work. Yeah. Stay busy, do anything to avoid, how am I really feeling?
And I think in doing that, I think what I've now learned is, I missed out on a lot of magical moments. There are moments you're there for, whether it's your daughter's graduation, a son's baseball game, but are you really present or is your head, I gotta write that report or, I gotta, You know what?
I gotta make that phone call. And I think one of the beautiful things that's happening in our world, I there's a lot of scary things, but one of the beautiful things is I think people are really trying to listen to what the other person is saying. . You'd never guess that with the political environment.
I don't want to go there but there's a real, there's a real focus I think, on trying to be an active listener. Try to validate whatever that person that you're involved with is saying to you. Try not to be judgmental. Listen, validate feel what they're feeling. Be empathetic. And that's one of the things about being in the.
How much time at 60? I'm gonna be 68 soon, Roger, how much time do I wanna waste thinking about the past? I can't change that. But what I can change is how I show up. I can show up in a way that I know I have in the past. Not always, but at times I have and then I slip. But if I show up in the way that I.
And in the way that God wants me to I can have a great rest of my life. And if part of that means staying focused with who you are, wherever you are, other stuff is not important, just you and whoever that person is, that's what's important. So that was the spiritual reawakening for me.
I have, I'm blessed to have three grandchildren. I got three wonder. Adult kids. I've got a beautiful wife of 42 years. I've got a great extended family. I need to be there for every single one of them, and no work should ever get in the way of that. So being in the now means that's what you're focused on.
The present. There's a great line from a. A song that I was just listening to actually this morning at the gym. It's a song by Neil Halstead, who's a great songwriter in the name of the song is Seasoned and there's a great line where he says no time, no time to waste thinking about things that have happened.
And I just think a lot of us spend a lot of the time. I know I did, and I just, I'm about. And tomorrow, but right now I'm talking to Roger and all your wonderful people on the call here. And and I just hope I'm resonating with some of them, if I can help them.
Roger: I think that's that's great. It's beautiful. Thanks. Thanks so much. As we wrap up the Camino experience a little bit I wanted to get your. Have you expressed your feelings of, as you're concluding your 34 day walk Camino Trek, you're realizing that you've had this momentous experience with all these. Candid speaking, new friends that you've met and you've realized that you've walked the same trick that pilgrims from a thousand years ago have walked, and you've completed something very meaningful to you. And I interpret this as your mental cleanser has happened and you're feeling good about yourself, and you're coming to the conclusion in Santiago.
Wrap that up a little bit, and then we'll move into a little bit more of what that means into your current business life. If you don't mind.
Jack: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I just, I. When I looked back, when I looked back and put myself in day 34 it, it was a recognition. I think, the elation of God. I said I was gonna do something and I did it, and I almost had that panic thing on day one, and it could have ended badly.
So there was a lot of you, you did it, you stuck to. You worked through the physical challenge, You worked through all that emotion that the physicality brought out in you. And oh, by the way, after Cruz de Farrow, I really feel I got a good lens. On what the Lord is asking me to do at this moment in my life.
The Jesuits have this great line and I went to Jesuit school and you see my Fordham in the background. God bless Fordham. And I I just think it's something that a lot of us probably don't take the time to ask, but basically what I try to ask myself every day is, God, what are you asking me to do in this?
I wanna tap into that because I wanna do what I think he's asking me to do, and I think I can absolutely remember in that last couple of days I felt I really knew what he's asking me to do. Go back to New Jersey, Be a better citizen of the world, be a better husband, be a better brother to my brother and my two sisters.
Be a better friend. Be a better coach. Listen to people validate what they're sharing with you and do what you can to help them move through life, whatever their challenges are. I really felt the spirit really got into me in a way that maybe before the Camino was a sporadic thing. And I think a year later I'm, I feel pretty good.
I feel pretty good. I feel like I got a little more, I andous to my wife the other. Hun I feel like I got a little extra spring in my step, but, I don't know how long it's gonna last, but you know what? I'm grateful. I'll take it as it comes .
Roger: That is really cool. I I enjoy hearing that so much. Let's take this into today's world. You've had this great experience. You're Now jazzed up with this new energy you have. You wanna come into your own practice and counseling and coaching business.
How are you sharing your experiences with your clients? How do you bringing that into the conversation, how do you use that to help people deal with their own issues, their own burdens, so to speak? Can you talk about that a little bit and then we can. Maybe go to a second time in some future date.
But I just wanna get a feeling of how you're using this in your current practice, if you don't mind.
Jack: I really do believe that the Camino experience. And I've been very open about it. I've written about it. I've been on other podcasts, I've done presentations on it. I think what I'm trying to share with people is I struggle just like anybody else. And in a coaching engagement, I'm privileged.
Have my own practice which has been a great thing I've been involved in now for I guess about eight years. And I also get assignments from other coaching companies particularly at the executive level. And what I'm trying to show people is that, we have a human centered approach.
You can go to a career coach and he can tell you here's how you do your resume. Here's how you do your LinkedIn profile, here's how you present yourself. But I think there's a real effort now to try to tap into what a human centered approach really is all about. And in my world being grateful for what I have, going through a variety of assessments and different exercises that I have in my coaching practice.
Can really help. In the same way that the Camino tapped into a lot of things in my past that I needed to unburden myself. A lot of the assessments that that I'm privileged to, to be able to do with clients who trust me and allow me to work with them in that vein, do these assessments that can help them tap in to maybe things in their past, things that they're struggling.
And we build a relationship together that helps them. I always use this expression about crossing a bridge. Crossing a bridge is a very visual thing, I'm crossing the bridge to the other side. What are you looking for? What do you wanna do? What's getting in the way of you crossing the bridge?
And that's part of being human centered. Let's look at every aspect of your life and share it. And let's see if we can come up together, coach and. To help you map out what you want to achieve there. And it's interesting too. The other thing I'll just briefly say is it's amazing to me the work I've done in bereavement.
I've spent a lot of, got a lot of additional training in the last three years in bereavement. I run a bereavement group here on our parish and we have record participation. So many people in the world today, young. Divorced, married every ethnicity is struggling with anxiety, struggling with having lost somebody in their life and finding the courage to talk about it.
And I think that's part of what I'm trying to do is use my experience. That taught me a lot in trying to encourage people, if you are willing to go. You might be amazed at what you find is on the other side. So I really feel that the experience has really helped me be a better coach. It's helped me be a better bereavement counselor.
But my number one job is I wanna be a better dad and I wanna be a better husband to my wife. And if I could do all those other things, that would be good too.
Roger: Thank you so much. I'm quite certain that a few of my friends and associates and. X that I know might take advantage of speaking to you or becoming a client, or learning more about your all in centered approach that you talk about. And we will include on the show notes your full website as well as contact information, phone number.
Is there anything specific that they should know or how should they go about contacting you?
Jack: Probably the best. Yeah, I've got my website I also have my LinkedIn page. Those are probably the two best ways to get in touch with me. And if maybe in the the materials as part of this, Email address, my, my cell phone number, that would be great.
But I'm easy to find, as they say
Roger: Jack, this has been special to me, so rewarding. I know our listeners are gonna find it useful and inspiring as well. So I just wanna say thank you again for taking the time today . really appreciate it and hope to talk to you more in the future. So glad we reconnected.
And it's really been a blast and it's been very special to me and I just wanna say thank you again.
Jack: Thank you Roger, and God bless. Your listeners and my very best to you to you and your family. What a great treat today. And so glad you reached out.
Roger: Take care. Thank you so much. We'll talk
Jack: Okay. Take care.