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Every Tuesday on the CosmoFactory podcast: Discover the latest innovations along the cosmetics and personal care supply chain. Hear thought-provoking conversations with top beauty industry experts from around the world. Learn about next-level solutions and find inspiration to turn your own ideas into industry-changing innovations.
A PRODUCTION OF Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna
CosmoFactory is the first podcast from Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna—the most important beauty trade show in the world. Dedicated to all sectors of the industry, Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna welcomes over 250,000 visitors from 150 countries and regions and nearly 3,000 exhibitors to Bologna, Italy, each year. It’s where our diverse and international industry comes together to build business relationships and to discover the best brands and newest innovations across consumer beauty, professional beauty, and the entire supply chain. The trade show includes a robust program of exclusive educational content, featuring executives and key opinion leaders from every sector of the cosmetics, fragrance, and personal care industry. Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna is the most important event of the Cosmoprof international network, with exhibitions in Asia (Hong Kong), the US (Las Vegas and Miami), India (Mumbai) and Thailand (Bangkok). Thanks to its global exhibitions Cosmoprof connects a community of more than 500,000 beauty stakeholders and 10,000 companies from 190 countries and regions. Learn more today at Cosmoprof.com
CosmoFactory was co-developed in collaboration with supply-side expert Deanna Utroske, Host of the CosmoFactory podcast and Editor of the Beauty Insights newsletter.
This transcript is automatically generated, and manually edited.
[00:00:00]
Deanna: This episode is about brand building and career building. It's about transparency, traceability, and mapping the supply chain. It's also about prestige packaging, about clean beauty, conscious beauty, product development, and more. With me now on the Cosmo Factory podcast is Lorne Lucree, founder of Quiet Coyote Consulting.
Deanna: Welcome.
Lorne: Hey, Deanna, nice to see you.
Deanna: Yeah, no, thank you for being here.
Lorne: Thanks for having me.
Deanna: Sure. Um, so you've probably noticed this in your work as well, but some people in beauty [00:01:00] are shy to reveal their age or even acknowledge how long they've been working in our industry. But I do want to put our conversation in perspective, just by pointing out that you've been in beauty for at least 15 years now, um, in roles that Um, product marketing, um, product development, packaging, innovation, ESG, as the intro suggested, um, and much more.
Deanna: And over the years, you've intentionally learned how brands come into being. Will you take us on a little tour of your experience in the cosmetics industry and what it has taught you?
Lorne: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Uh, so I started, you're right, 15 plus years, unfortunately now. Um, and, uh, I started my career, uh, in beauty, um, actually out of business school. So I'm not a, a, uh, a chemist or R and D. I started, uh, and actually, uh, doing my MBA just really with an obsession with consumer. She started my career and actually working in toilet paper on Charmin for Parker and Gamble.
Lorne: And so I feel like if you can sell toilet paper or find that motivating, like you can sell anything. And so hearing people talk about their toilet paper habits, I was like [00:02:00] fascinated by. And so going back to business school and I ended up chatting with a recruiter from L'Oreal and we were like talking at length about her beauty routine.
Lorne: And she was like, I have just the job for you. And so started my career. Uh, at L'Oreal within their kind of management development program within the professional products division. So like salon hair care and, um, and it was something I, best thing I've never seen is because it's like the DMI at L'Oreal, as they call it, um, is, uh, an operation that where you really see like everything, parts and pieces of the product, like the packaging, The, you know, the models, the working with formulation, naming package, copy, uh, international markets, et cetera, all these different parts and pieces.
Lorne: And it was a great first, you know, training ground for understanding kind of everything that goes into a product, but I realized I love the, the formula piece of it. And that was actually what tended to be the last to be thought about. Um, in terms of, from a timing, you know, you're writing briefs at 10, 10 PM at Really wanted to develop those skills, that skill set, and so joined, uh, [00:03:00] Clinique working in R& I, um, really so, like, really focusing on, like, technical storytelling.
Lorne: So, like, uh, how do you, you know, translate, uh, the, you know, the moisture barrier? How do you translate that to, like, Jane in Eastern Montana at the Clinique counter who, like, you know, does, to maybe, it doesn't have a full dermatologist background, etc., and having her be able to explain what that is in a compelling way, which is so.
Lorne: Really loved like the storytelling and the translating piece of it and, and took all those skills from Clinique and L'Oreal and then moved to Luxury Brand Partners, which was a, uh, one of the first Luxury Brand Incubators. Now there's many, but, uh, it was the guys who started Bumble and Bumble and then started to kind of expand their portfolio.
Lorne: And so there took all that kind of big beauty expertise and then apply that to kind of brand creation. So literally working with a founder to come up with the brand idea. The product lineup, um, how they use the products, the technology we would use, the NPD the retail partner to [00:04:00] understand what, you know, what does Sephora want to see in their, what's their gaps, what's Ulta's gaps, et cetera.
Lorne: So spent almost about six years there. Building out there essentially an outsourced innovation ecosystem of like contract manufacturers, packaging suppliers, raw material suppliers, uh, uh, clinical testing houses, retail partners, etc. So creating brands like R& Co and IGK and One Size by Patrick Starr. Um, and then was really curious about the operational piece.
Lorne: So, uh, thinking about like, how does products actually get made? And, and so jumped over to Voyant Beauty, which at the time was kind of a new, a newer, bigger conglomerate of kind of three different contract manufacturers that have been acquired as under one, under one roof. Um, and so led, as their chief innovation officer, led all of our R& D and, and, regulatory and some packaging and product development for that company and group was there for about four years.
Lorne: And then most recently, um, went back to big beauty. So Unilever Prestige serving as a central strategic innovation advisor to their portfolio brands, some really great brands like Paula's Choice, [00:05:00] Dermalogica, K18, Living Proof, um, as well as then serving, heading up at NPD for Tatcha. And then most recently, uh, Kind of taking all those skill sets and going out on my own to be able to kind of, uh, bring all that, uh, kind of varied experience to brands based on kind of what they need, uh, and what they're looking for to help them to scale quickly and, and achieve success.
Lorne: Yeah.
Deanna: excellent. Wow. Yeah, very comprehensive. Thank you so much. And you know, you've suggested in your answer there that your career has been led a bit by curiosity, but you've also shared with me in another conversation that part of the trajectory of your career has followed the guidance that boredom has actually given you.
Deanna: I'm hoping you can tell us a little bit about that. And maybe in particular, uh, You know, I don't want to imply that anyone working in beauty is bored with their work, but maybe you have some suggestions about how listeners can leverage, you know, their own boredom for productive change, you know, personal growth, career change, maybe even brand or company growth.
Lorne: Yeah. I think it's a, so yes, I [00:06:00] mean, I I'm the first to admit, uh, and I, uh, that I get bored easily and, and. I'm highly curious, even from when I was young, trying to, you know, um, you know, uh, getting into trouble and coming up with creative solutions. So anyway, manifesting all that for, you know, and I think that's why I'm so obsessed with beauty is because it's a place where actually that is, is encouraged and And actually celebrate it.
Lorne: And I think, you know, I think about boredom as actually could can be a really good thing because it forces you, you know, I am if nothing less than an overthinker and obsessed about things. And, you know, when I have been in situations in my career where, you know, where I start to feel bored in a way that's like, I have to remind myself that like, I'm getting to do like a dream.
Lorne: I mean, who wouldn't want to make a haircare line for Sephora? Like that's like in my world, like a dream, but it's like, once you do it a few times, you're like, okay, like I know, you know, you got, you know, the drill, et cetera. And so it's kind of like, okay, like, well, what, what's next or where do I find, where [00:07:00] am I, where do, what will peak my curiosity and passion?
Lorne: And so I always, I always. Think about like, you know, while my career sounds buried, it's, it's always been driven by a question. And it's like, you know, the L'Oreal, it was, uh, it was the question around product. Like I didn't understand that fully and I wanted to dive into that. Clinique, it was about actually then speed around agility, because I was seeing actually, you know, the, the time was 2013, 2014 when incubators, Colossier was just hitting, I think you were seeing these brands move quickly.
Lorne: And it was like, Why can't you be more agile? And so then it was luxury brand partners was then it was like, well, what happens in manufacturing and what, what, what is that? You know, how much money are they really making, et cetera. And then, you know, and then, uh, Unilever was like, what happens in between years for some of these brands when they're hit scale, they get acquired.
Lorne: Like, how do you maintain innovation and how do you keep growing, et cetera. And so all those things have has really, you know, again, it's always led by a question, which I think is informed by a bit of like, okay, like what's next? Like, you know, kind of this almost impatience thinking about it. So, you know.
Lorne: Not everybody has that though. It definitely [00:08:00] causes a lot of stress and anxiety, but also it's like one of those things where it's like, you know, beauty allows us that flexibility, which is so wild. Um, and on all these different parts of pieces, you know, of, of, of to be explore, which is amazing.
Deanna: No, no, that's really interesting to think about how, how different it's almost, you know, feelings can guide us and be, um, uh, very instructive, but also as you suggested, um, you know, you can learn from them, but also, um, They can help inspire innovation. Um,
Lorne: Yes. Yes. Yes.
Deanna: what else? Yeah, no, that sounds great.
Deanna: Um, as you, as you've mentioned, um, you led global innovation for Tatcha. And one of the things that helped differentiate this brand early on, um, was that Vicky Tsai, who founded Tatcha followed what I would describe as a very particular vision for product packaging design. And I, um, Um, I've heard, I don't know personally, um, but she off and on received a pushback for that, but I'm hoping that you can talk about how a prestige brand like Tatcha, um, you know, you don't need to share any [00:09:00] trade secrets, of course, um, but how a brand like that goes about shopping the supply chain for partnerships or, you know, containers, components that resonate with the brand concept, but also makes sense to consumers who buy prestige tier products.
Lorne: Absolutely. I think, I think, uh, overall, I think within beauty, what I've seen is a shift to really focusing on formulation and raw materials and actually a bit of a, of a shift away from even thinking about packaging. Packaging almost feels like it's a bit of a, not afterthought, but is, is supporting the formulation.
Lorne: And I think like, I don't know if it's a market thing, market, um, thing, The market being so focused on like clinical claims and before BNAs and consumer and, and the consumer really digging into the all the ingredients and the raw materials, clean, clinical, all that has really put the focus there and brands like the ordinary, et cetera, coming out with packaging that stock, that kind of, you know, deprioritizes that and the consumer kind of mindset.
Lorne: I think, you know what Vicki did really well is that yes, like really putting packaging at the [00:10:00] forefront and other brands as well, where, you know, you can celebrate that as a, um. As a equal or in sometimes more important piece of the overall user user experience, um, you know, like a brand like bubble shy, don't have to do custom packaging out the gate.
Lorne: But when you think about bubble, the first thing you think about is like the, you know, the unique packaging and which I think is really fascinating to see, like how then that's even leading into mass to Asian mass. So I think the, the, the challenge though, is understanding, you know, packaging is a. I think, uh, when I think about indie brands, emerging brands, they're just starting to wrap their head around what, what formulation entails.
Lorne: Like, okay, now I can, I can piece together a formulator and a contract manufacturer, et cetera. Packaging is like, unless you have the expertise of an engineer on, on, on staff, it's like, it's a hard nut to crack to be able to say like, You know, the tooling involves custom color, how that impacts your liabilities.
Lorne: Like is it direct echo versus labels? What does it manufacture? What can they actually produce the lead times, all those things. It's just a [00:11:00] whole other layer of complexity that I found is it hasn't be, it hasn't been simplified in the way that formulation has been. I think from a supply chain perspective in the minds of, of emerging brands.
Lorne: And even I think scaling brands as well.
Deanna: Yeah. No. Interesting. What do you think needs to happen for it to be simplified?
Lorne: totally Yeah, I think it's, um, it's because I think it's been a little less of like, um, if I think about the world of like, uh, so say, like, outsourced formulation, I think about the level of, um, acquisition that's happened from contract manufacturer perspective. So you've seen these big platforms emerge, like, you know, the elevation or the buoyance or the KDC is the world.
Lorne: So that becomes a bit more easier to navigate. Um, And, uh, uh, and fine packaging, you just haven't seen the same level I think of, of, of, um, acquisition and building of those platforms. So I think you think about KDC acquiring HCT, I think that's, you know, it was a really smart acquisition, but even that's, you know, it is a, it is still a piece of the larger KDC portfolio.
Lorne: I haven't seen a, uh, which is [00:12:00] formulation focused. I haven't seen Kind of a packaging platform emerged yet that offers everything from stock to completely custom at scale, all those different things emerge. It still is a bit kind of, I think a bit, uh, a bit nascent, not that it won't happen, but I think it is an area that's right for opportunity for sure.
Deanna: Wow. No, that's really interesting to think about because we are seeing so many, uh, various consultants, a lot of independent professionals emerge, um, both on, you know, in the formulation side and the packaging side. And I know they're, you know, anecdotally I hear that they're doing quite well, there's, there's good demand for this.
Deanna: So there's definitely an opportunity for more, our more ambitious listeners, right?
Lorne: That's right.
Deanna: Help with packaging. Yeah,
Lorne: Oh my God. I see it all the time. Yes. It's like, it is a, you know, especially to be able to add those custom touches because you need somebody that can be creative, but also has the technical chops and expertise, uh, to operate within our new timelines, you know, cause that's the other thing too, is like, The speed at which innovation is required often, then you're cutting out on packaging because potentially you're spending more on formulation up front, et cetera.
Lorne: [00:13:00] Like, I think that is a place where if you can find the right partner that can be creative and work in tandem, it can be really beneficial and value add.
Deanna: Yeah, cool. No, thank you for all that. Um, as we've heard, your work has been so wide ranging. I know we're definitely not going to learn everything that we could from you in our short conversation here. Um, but I'd like to talk a little bit about this idea of mapping the supply chain and the importance that both transparency and traceability data has for retailers and brands in particular.
Deanna: What can you share there?
Lorne: Yeah, I think the, you know, um, there's a lot of factors going on. It's so interesting to see. So you have like consumer sentiment about sustainability and. Transparency. They want to really understand you're seeing on social and TikTok. It's like really breaking down. You've mentioned some of these independent, you know, like you're saying, like the, you know, the, some of the packaging, even product development happen live on TikTok where you're seeing this happen.
Lorne: So consumers are understanding the transparency piece of it, uh, specific to sustainability and supply chain. It's like, okay, you see it there. [00:14:00] So then the brands are saying, okay, well, listen, I've got to react to this. So I'm going to do, I need to do refills or I need to figure out. Like traceability strategy, but it's, it's not an easy thing to unlock, uh, and to figure out because you're working with all these outsource partners, mostly if you're not at a L'Oreal or a Lotter.
Lorne: And so you're trying to figure out how do I lean on them? And what does that even mean in terms of like, what does that mean to me to be sustainable? And I'm kind of tracing these things down. Also you're hearing from your retail partners that kind of what, what they believe sustainability to be and transparency to be and what they want to push, you know, to, to enable, uh, visibility and transparency in their retail.
Lorne: their retail environment. So when I think about all those things colliding, um, uh, what I see is it's a lot of data that's not readily accessible that a brand is trying to pull parts and pieces in to try to put together something that resembles sustainability strategy or approach. Um, so what I've always, what I've recommended is like, You know, you are not going to be able to be [00:15:00] everything to everybody.
Lorne: And so how do you think about sustainability in a way that's unique to you? Because you want to do what's best for the, for the earth, but you can't do everything. And so, you know, conducting back of the envelope materiality assessments with your, with your consumers, listening to your consumers, figuring out what's important to them.
Lorne: Because I've seen in the past where Everybody's so gung ho on refills, but actually that's a very low on the, on the impact list. Consumers actually more, say, more so care about, I don't know, like, toxic ingredients or things like that that were, so to be able to focus your efforts there on something that's going to matter most for a consumer, not to say refills are bad or you shouldn't do them, but maybe it's a, year three, year four goal versus a immediate.
Lorne: Um, and then I think the other piece that's going to have to happen is that, you know, software, uh, data to help connect the dots, uh, for brands and retailers together. So I'm even, you know, I, I just saw a cool technology on LinkedIn, which is where I get most of my news now, but like that's emerging, that's helping brands.
Lorne: Uh, kind of like a good face project, but for life cycle, assess life cycle analysis and, uh, economic, [00:16:00] uh, carbon footprints and things, but specific to beauty. And I'm like, okay, that is awesome because that's, that's a gap that didn't exist before hopefully, you know, specific to beauty, et cetera, because our industry is so unique.
Lorne: It's something that I think is now we'll see more and more helping to create, create ease, I
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. No, I do think the tech platforms offer, um, a lot of relief, um, with some of these larger challenges because, you know, you've, you've been talking there about a lot of the smaller brands having, having these challenges with traceability and we see it with the multinationals as well. Um, and collaborations that they're putting together to make sure that, that they really can trace the supply chain.
Deanna: It's, it's a challenge.
Lorne: It's huge. And then it's like, do you, do you trace everything or is it specific materials that are points, you know, is it palm oil? Is that, but is that enough? And how do you think about that? And then if you have a sustainability story, is it, why does it matter if six of your ingredients are responsibly sourced if the rest aren't, and how do you say that in a marketing way?
Lorne: That's not greenwashing. It's like, it's a lot.
Deanna: Yeah, yeah, it is a lot.
Lorne: a stress stressed out even talking about it, but yeah.
Deanna: You know, and many of the, [00:17:00] um, the notes you've, you've made there thinking about traceability, you touch on ESG strategy, right? And how a brand or a company sets up their practices to align, um, not only with sustainability ideals, but ethical ideals. Um, do you have more to say on how brands and suppliers might collaborate effectively on ESG?
Lorne: Yeah. I think the, um, uh, the. I think it requires focus on the brand from the brand point of view to understand what's really what's most important to their most important stakeholders, which, you know, it's your either your investors, your retailers or your consumers. So aligning that and then figuring out a strategy and a road map that's realistic and, uh, that will get you there.
Lorne: Um, and then what tools you need. I think that that's a, um, uh, uh, It can be actually pretty, you know, having done developed, you know, for boy and I developed our ESG strategy and plan and seeing kind of behind the curtain of how it's accomplished. It was definitely not easy with a boy and a size that we [00:18:00] were, but it was something that actually was, um, it was really fascinating to me because it's like it is a, it is a, you do have the process isn't that what that.
Lorne: Um, the process to put it together is not that complex. It's all, it's everything else that's complex. So it's all the, you know, CDP or which, which metrics you use to align with and all those other stuff gets a bit complex, but actually doing it and understanding it as like, is not. So if at least you can get there, then you can take it just a bit step further.
Lorne: Maybe you bring, bringing on talent or, or even just stopping there and kind of understanding kind of, you know, at least you're doing something at the end of the day and moving the needle. Um, the other pieces that, you know, And this is, uh, this is where I think it's really exciting is like, is when you can create value, utilizing sustainability and get the consumer to pay for it, I think that will be the Holy grail.
Lorne: And so it's like, for example, and I'm like, cause it's like the launch of refill for refill sake. You know, you either need to price it much cheaper. So the customer really wants to buy it or, uh, or it's got a, or it doesn't really make sense, I would say, like in [00:19:00] terms of from your brand perspective, or do you just optimize your core package, et cetera, I like saw a brand, for example, that just launched, um, that's doing hands, hand and body wash refills in pouches.
Lorne: So great, um, but what they're also doing is basically taking a dossier, like, fragrance approach where they're knocking off prestige fragrances in the formula. So then you create, like, a, a value where you're like, Oh, actually, like, I want to, I want to have the Loewe knockoff fragrance in my hand soap. So I'll actually adopt refilling, not because I maybe I'm sustainable and I want to refill, but more so I just want cheap.
Lorne: I want soap that smells good, cheap for cheap. And like, that is a, that is actually really interesting to me. It's like, maybe not for Loewe or whoever else they're knocking off. But I mean, it's a way to re, uh, re, uh, uh, reframe it in consumers minds, which might encourage adoption.
Deanna: Yeah, no, I think that sort of ulterior motive
Lorne: Yes.
Deanna: be effective, right? Like you're saying with the fragrances, I hadn't seen that one, but we see it a lot with, um, you know, [00:20:00] brands really foregrounding efficacy, right? Like you need this for the benefits of the product. Of course, it's sustainable, you know, we, but we're not going to shove that down your throat.
Lorne: Yes. Yes.
Deanna: yeah. So while we're thinking about the subject of the supply chain, I would like to revisit some Something you and I talked about in an earlier conversation. Um, you told me that one of the reasons you like to attend, um, Cosmoprof worldwide, Bologna in particular, is that, and correct me if I have this wrong.
Deanna: Um, but the Cosmo pack section at that show, which covers the entire supply chain is very well built out. I was hoping you can, um, share some notes on why you go to that show and what you look for or why you appreciate Cosmo pack in particular.
Lorne: Yeah. So I love all the Cosmo Pro shows. So I fair each, I think each have an amazing, amazing points of difference that actually you can draw value from what I think is interesting about Bologna is one the size and scale. I mean, it's like it is a, you know, uh, feet are sore, tired, snacks in a bag type of show.
Lorne: So it's, you know, so it's like, you know, you're not in the comforts [00:21:00] of a, of a Las Vegas hotel or conference convention center. It's, it's a, so, but it's great because I think the, the CosmoPack piece of it, it's actually where I always go first because to me, um, that is where you start to see a bit more of like the, um, uh, a international, uh, but also some smaller suppliers.
Lorne: And also it actually is, um, it actually is, uh, stretches beyond just packaging and also like it's more operational. So like I've seen some really cool like sachet manufacturing lines and sampling things like that that would actually kind of make you encourage you to think differently. And if even if I wasn't, you know, if I wasn't a manufacturer, I saw a brand, I would actually Or so I saw that I could go back to my contra manufacturer and say, can you, could you purchase this capability or this could be a really cool capability for you to onboard, et cetera.
Lorne: So I feel like it connects a lot of those dots that maybe you don't see, uh, altogether at the scale at which Cosmo pack operates. Yeah.
Deanna: Yeah. No, that's interesting. That's interesting because, you know, we, I think about that, or I hear about, you know, brands encouraging ingredient [00:22:00] adoption, right, at various contract manufacturing facilities, but, you know, the technology and capability adoption makes very good sense as well. And it is a good opportunity to sort of take a tour of that.
Deanna: Um, I want to look, um, Mm hmm. Beyond the work you're doing currently with Quiet Coyote Consulting, and talk just quickly about some of the advisory board and brand mentorship you do with the U. S. specialty retailer, Ulta Beauty. Um, I'll quickly mention, uh, for our listeners, um, that Ulta currently has more than 1, 400 locations across the state, so it's a sizable retailer here in the U.
Deanna: S. Um, but we just talk a bit about how retailers, brands, and consumers are helping define these concepts of clean and conscious beauty.
Lorne: Yeah. I think the, so the work with Altus, it's been, uh, awesome. So I help with them in two, two perspective. One is, um, They have their muse accelerator program, which is their, um, uh, their, uh, kind of incubator program, um, uh, for, uh, founded by, uh, uh, founders scholars. So it's like, you know, kind of underrepresented, um, but really helping to, to bring [00:23:00] them, uh, Give them access to resources, et cetera.
Lorne: And so we've, uh, so I've helped with the advising on the innovation piece of them. So piece of that, which has been really fun helping with brands that are, um, that are looking to connect a lot of those dots. And then the other piece is the, um, is the sustainability. So the conscious beauty at Ulta, um, which has been really interesting because, uh, the.
Lorne: We talked about actually talking about causal packets a nice segue because they, um, the pan of the the advisory board is made up of actually a lot more like brown founders and, um, and presidents and so I think they are we're excited to have some expertise. A bit more around the supply chain, like a diversified.
Lorne: So there's, um, another representative that comes from more of a regulatory standpoint. And then I kind of bring a bit of the, almost the manufacturing point of view. And so, you know, when we think about it, it's like, cause I've been on the receiving end of having to, uh, formulate, you know, Ulta clean or Sephora clean or whatever, you know, it's like, And, and so I'm able [00:24:00] to communicate the challenges of that, right?
Lorne: Like not having access to data, not having, not having the resources needed, not being able to connect all those dots together, understanding the challenges and actually the challenges of not being able to formulate with certain ingredients. Like, what does that, what does that mean? Like, you know, uh, having, not having octocrylene to be able to formulate an SPF, like that's a challenge.
Lorne: Like, so things like that, that you can start to, and I think hearing it from different perspectives helps them to understand like, okay. How do we move the needle? Uh, what's right? What feels right? Maybe what do we set as a longer term goal? Maybe what do we need to prioritize or what helping them to understand having all these different points of view?
Lorne: So it's been really interesting to see on the other side. Um, and really, you know, they, they do an amazing, there's, they're an amazing retailer in general. And then just putting the thoughtfulness behind it, I think is really, it's been really special to see. Yeah. Yeah.
Deanna: that's great. That's great. You mentioned the brand mentorship work you do there. And, um, we know mentorship really is never a one way relationship. So I'd love to hear from you, um, what you've actually learned from some of the brand leaders you've gotten to work with there.
Lorne: Oh my gosh, um, I mean, just like the energy, [00:25:00] uh, and the, uh, not accepting no,
Deanna: Yes.
Lorne: you know, so, like, it's, uh, sometimes I feel like you can get so, like, um, not jaded is that right word, but you're like, oh, no, you can't do that. Or that's, you know, you, whatever, whatever. And it's like, well, why sometimes and seeing how they build or seeing what they're doing and seeing, like, you know, I, I don't like, I say scrappy in a way of like really, like in a way that's really compelling, like how they're piecing together solutions to issues they're finding or, you know, solutions to scaling.
Lorne: So, um, that's, I mean, that's the first and foremost that founders always get really great energy from, um, as well. Um, and then actually just starting to think about like, uh, what, uh, other resources they're seeing to get inspired to, uh, to. inform how they're thinking. I think it's been really interesting because it's been, you know, they don't have access to a lot of the data that we have, et cetera.
Lorne: And so what are they using to like gauge and how they're thinking about it? Um, and partnering with a retailer. Yeah.
Deanna: Yeah. Oh, no, that's cool. That's cool. Thank you. So as, as we finish up here, I've, I'm, um, [00:26:00] curious to know where you think, um, your curiosity and boredom might take you in the future. What, what's ahead for you?
Lorne: Oh Lord. Uh, well now just like, you know, uh, you know, amazingly like getting to see work with, you know, different brands and, and, uh, And diligence with, you know, private equity with others, like just, you need to see all these different facets of, well, that's like now that, you know, that I can. So seeing all that has been great.
Lorne: Uh, and, and continuing that and then who knows down the, down the road to potentially, you know, building a brand for myself as well to leverage all this and then, you know, have that, you know, have, uh, you know, uh, put myself in a founder seat at
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. All that you've learned.
Lorne: Yes. Yes.
Deanna: to good use. Excellent. Well, Lauren, this has certainly been an intriguing conversation. I thank you for joining me today on podcast.
Lorne: Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.
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