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In this episode of FusionTalk, Anouck and Steve are joined by Marijn for a lively and humorous discussion that blends technology, automation, and a touch of whisky tasting. The trio embarks on a playful exploration of their recent podcast collaboration, highlighting the unique dynamic that arises when they come together. They delve into the complexities of automation, addressing common misconceptions about its ease and the importance of thoughtful implementation.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn as they examine how people perceive technology, from the allure of shiny new tools to the challenges of adapting to change. Anouck, Steve and Marijn share their insights on user experiences with new features and the impact of automation on business processes, all while keeping the tone light and entertaining.
Listeners will also enjoy anecdotes about their recent speaking engagements and the ever-evolving landscape of technology, including discussions around AI and its role in shaping future workflows. As the episode unfolds, the hosts reflect on their experiences, offering a blend of humour and wisdom that is sure to resonate with anyone navigating the tech world.
- The Dynamics of Podcast Collaboration
- Misconceptions About Automation
- User Perceptions of New Technology
- Insights from Recent Speaking Engagements
- The Role of AI in Automation
- Whisky Tasting and Light-Hearted Banter
- Misconceptions About Automation
- User Perceptions of New Technology
- Insights from Recent Speaking Engagements
- The Role of AI in Automation
- Whisky Tasting and Light-Hearted Banter
Join Anouck, Steve, and Marijn for this engaging episode filled with laughter, insights, and a shared passion for technology as they navigate the intriguing intersection of people, processes, and innovation.
Creators and Guests
Host
What is FusionTalk?
FusionTalk is a dynamic podcast where technology, collaboration, and innovation come to life! Hosted by Anouck Fierens, a Microsoft 365 & Power Platform expert, and Steve Dalby, a SharePoint & Teams specialist with a knack for humor, each episode delivers fresh insights, real-world stories, and engaging discussions with industry leaders.
🚀 Topics include:
✅ Modern workplace & collaboration strategies
✅ Practical case studies & expert insights
Join FusionTalk and discover how to work smarter, faster, and more efficiently in today’s tech-driven world! 🎧 #FusionTalk #TechPodcast #Collaboration
Anouk: Welcome m to fusion talk with anouk and steve. We are evil.
Steve: You are evil. I'm not.
Anouk: Oh, you're innocent and not evil.
Steve: Yes, I'm, innocent. Didn't you see the. The big kill round thing above my head?
Anouk: Can you remember we're reading Secrets of Secrets and they're talking about it. The halo. The halo, yes, yes, the halo. you are. But we are evil.
Steve: A little.
Anouk: Yeah, a little. A little. You see, there are different people that say, yes, she's evil. And there'll be other people listening going, no, she's not. So we're just doing a little bit of an intro because, we, the three of us, we're big.
Steve: Oh, the three of us.
Anouk: The three of us.
Steve: We're just the two of us.
Anouk: Yeah, but we're about to talk about the three of us.
Steve: Oh, yes, we did.
Anouk: The three of us decided to do a podcast together. So Moraine and Steve and Anouk did a podcast.
Steve: It was fun.
Anouk: It was fun, actually.
Steve: It's going to be fun.
Anouk: It is a third kind of style. It is because it's a little bit between us and a little bit between what? Normally Office365 distilled is.
Steve: The boys were very nice. Not their normal selves. I'm not used to that.
Anouk: Well, we had the nun with us. I suppose we were upside about offending her.
Steve: Huh? Everything except that. But that's fine.
Anouk: So, guys, we, we got together because we're all around at my place and we decided that, instead of doing a normal Office365 podcast, we would do the three of us. And I think it turned out it.
Steve: Was not an Office365 one. It was a fusion talk one.
Anouk: It was a fusion taught one. But Moraine didn't wear his hat. Realise it.
Steve: Yes.
Anouk: He just thought it was an office365 and you were the guest when really he was the guest.
Steve: Yes, something like that.
Anouk: Anyway, so we just thought we'd do a quick intro so you're not surprised. And, hey, this is the outcome. Well, tonight is special for me anyway.
Speaker C: Every night is special.
Anouk: No, tonight's really special.
Speaker C: Tonight's really, really.
Anouk: It's a monage.
Speaker C: Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, okay.
Anouk: We have a guest.
Speaker C: We've got a guest. You can hear a chuckle in the back.
Steve: Yeah, if they say things like that, that's normal.
Anouk: Okay, good. We are allowed to laugh. We're being very serious at the moment. So we've combined podcasts. Yes, we've combined podcasts. Podcast along those nights. So I do two podcasts. I've, been doing for the last six years with you. Office 365 distilled. Brilliant. Episode 176. Now, we've done so many, we don't actually remember M. It's about, M365 technology. Take the piss out of it and then drink a good whiskey.
Steve: Do I need to drink whiskey?
Anouk: Might have to.
Speaker C: Okay, we're not gonna force you, but.
Anouk: I'm gonna sit on you.
Speaker C: I would try a little bit if you wouldn't.
Anouk: Yeah, but this one, I know your whiskey tastes. you need to make sure you take the watered version. But I do a second podcast where we talk about people, process, and I do that with this beautiful lady here who's going to introduce herself.
Steve: Anuk.
Anouk: So that it? Yeah. Okay.
Steve: People know me right now.
Anouk: Is that right? Do you know her?
Speaker C: Yes.
Anouk: Yeah. Ah, people know me.
Speaker C: What a presumptuous thing to say.
Anouk: I thought we were the only two with egos in the room.
Steve: Yeah, no, you aren't. But you say you only do two podcasts, but you are talking about so many other ones that you want to do.
Anouk: Oh, yeah.
Steve: Why aren't they done yet?
Anouk: Oh, God, yeah.
Speaker C: Where's our dirty podcast?
Anouk: I know, I know. It is on the list. It's been on the list a while. I've been at a house to rebuild.
Speaker C: I know, I know, but true.
Anouk: Yeah, we should do that. And the whiskey Club, too, as well. yes, so I will. But we've all been busy. I mean, let's be honest, we've been struggling to find time to keep our own podcasts moving.
Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
Steve: Yeah.
Speaker C: I've got no idea how many weeks it's been since we recorded one.
Anouk: No, well, we had holidays and stuff.
Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.
Anouk: Not really an excuse in November, is it? Speaking gigs. There we go.
Speaker C: Speaking gigs. Yes.
Steve: Yeah.
Speaker C: Yeah. yeah.
Anouk: You went on holiday. You definitely went to holiday. I went on holiday. You went on holiday. So, yeah, Holidays.
Speaker C: Holiday. Holiday. Okay, cool.
Anouk: All right. What else can I talk about?
Speaker C: Well, just that we're kind of a big thing and that everyone knows us by now.
Anouk: Yeah, that's true.
Steve: Yeah.
Anouk: Yeah. Obviously not me. I mean, obviously your ego. And your ego. But I'm, just sitting here.
Steve: They definitely know the two of you for sure.
Speaker C: If they're listening to this podcast, they might probably.
Steve: You guys are nominated for AT ESPC in the podcast award.
Speaker C: Well, thank you for bringing that up.
Anouk: That's another tener, Iowa, as a matter of fact. So, yes. in the notes of this podcast. There will be a link.
Speaker C: Yes.
Steve: I'm sorry, but the voting is done. It's closed.
Speaker C: Is it?
Steve: It is the end of the month.
Speaker C: Oh, no.
Anouk: Okay, tell me you voted for this podcast. I didn't even vote.
Speaker C: Oh, snap.
Anouk: It's not the end of the month. I'm sure it was.
Steve: I saw it with, reshmi on her LinkedIn a few days ago, that the voting will close in two days or so. Something like that. So maybe if you are very fast.
Speaker C: We wanted to do, like, a little push on the socials.
Anouk: Yeah, we did.
Speaker C: So that they vote for us and not for that. What was that? Coco Pilot. Coco. Nexon, whatever.
Anouk: Cocoa Nexion.
Steve: Yeah, you got my vote.
Speaker C: Don't vote for that.
Anouk: My mom voted. Did your mom vote?
Speaker C: Probably not.
Anouk: Oh, dear.
Steve: He didn't even vote. How can his mom vote, then?
Anouk: Oh, no, this didn't. Anyway, so tell us about Fusion Talk.
Steve: that's the other podcast you do together with me, and it's about people. So we would try to bring technology and business together at a funny way or at a nice conversational way.
Anouk: We think it's funny anyway.
Steve: Yeah, we do.
Anouk: That's true. So this could be. You could be listening to this podcast on Fusion Talk, because we're going to release it on both channels, or you could be listening to it on Office365 distilled.
Speaker C: Uh-huh.
Anouk: So that's what we're doing. Yes.
Speaker C: And you already explained what Office365 distilled. This so good.
Anouk: You don't have to do it.
Speaker C: Awesome.
Anouk: Yes, you can just.
Speaker C: My job.
Steve: He wants to explain it.
Speaker C: Let him go. No, then I can already go and have a sip of water.
Anouk: Ah, you can absolutely do that. The other unusual thing today is that we've set up slightly differently, and so Moraine is actually sitting down. He doesn't like to sit down with the podcast, but today is sitting at the table and pouring water.
Steve: Yeah.
Anouk: And you're sitting down, too.
Steve: No, I just.
Anouk: Oh, sorry. Just looked like you were sitting down because.
Steve: Yes, I know. I'm not that big, not that tall, but even them.
Speaker C: Yeah, but I just had this enormous portion of Argentinian barbecue steak meat.
Anouk: You had an enormous portion?
Speaker C: Yes. And a big ice cream.
Anouk: And a big ice cream.
Steve: The ice cream was a problem? Probably.
Anouk: Yeah, probably.
Speaker C: ice cream is never the problem. Never.
Anouk: Does ice cream count as protein?
Speaker C: Yes, in my book, yes.
Anouk: It's.
Speaker C: It's made of milk. I mean, milk's full of protein. I mean, it's super healthy.
Anouk: All right, we got some ski kicking bigs. I knew that was coming out.
Speaker C: Speaking pigs.
Anouk: Yes. Squeaking pigs shouldn't do that. My phone was in my pocket. What's the movie?
Speaker C: Stopped Loving. Loving the Bomb, where he's on the, atomic bomb when they drop it out of the air.
Anouk: You know this one?
Speaker C: Deliverance.
Anouk: Deliverance. Good call, well done. Yes. Squeaking pigs. But not many people know that one. You've got no idea because you do books, not films. I know, I know. I'm trying to get it converted.
Steve: Somebody needs to be the strange one.
Anouk: It's usually him. So it doesn't change on today's podcast. So that's neat. So we've got some speaking gigs. Let's tell people where we are and what we're doing. we got to the end of the year, so it's like mid November, so you've got a couple.
Speaker C: The end of the year. I only have Oslo collab days. Oslo, where I will be doing my Marie condo session together with Melissa Hill. We were gonna do a workshop.
Anouk: Ah.
Speaker C: But that got cancelled because none of you wanted to pay for this.
Anouk: Not that you're sensitive about it at all.
Speaker C: No, no, it's fine.
Anouk: It's difficult. We found out it's difficult getting people to come and do anything. Cloud built is not happening this next week. Oh, we, we emailed five and a half thousand people out in the last two weeks or not. Individuals. 5,000 emails across a thousand plus people and even pre registrations. So it's very difficult at the moment. And I was talking to somebody and they're saying, yeah, people, people, events are actually dying. There's people are struggling to do it. In the hotel that I cancelled was saying the same thing. There's people are cancelling more than they used to. So whether this is a Covid worrying thing because it's that time of year or whatever, I don't know. But anyway, yeah, so we are going to put cloud built on a digital platform Next year we're going to use this studio and get people to come in and create content. So that's the next year's task. But that's okay. Yeah. So you're doing Oslo now next week? Week after. I am doing the Budapest Edge.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Steve: Next summit.
Anouk: Summit next, yeah.
Speaker C: Organising, yeah. So my co speaker, Melissa Hill is going to be there as well.
Anouk: Excellent. Yeah, yeah. So, I've got a. One of my coolest things. I'm doing an AI hackathon. So Holly, my AI will be live at that Session.
Speaker C: Okay.
Anouk: And basically looking at how you can use AI as a research assistant to, to do whatever you need to do. So that could turn out to be quite good fun. depending on the mood that Holly's in, of course.
Steve: Of course.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Anouk: You never know what people are going to look and wrong. Then we do in Tunisia.
Steve: Tunisia, yeah.
Anouk: And end of December.
Speaker C: Really awesome. Is that, Jamel that is organising that?
Anouk: Yeah. He's got a magic touch with these things, hasn't he? These things appear and yeah, he's expanded this.
Speaker C: I've seen, I've seen the pictures of last week's, Experts Live, in Dubai. that looked pretty cool. And the other one that he organised in Tunisia looked very, very awesome.
Anouk: Yeah, so that should be fantastic.
Steve: One is the collab days and one. The other one is the AI thing.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Steve: Ah, yeah.
Anouk: And I'm doing the hackathon at the AI as well.
Speaker C: Okay.
Steve: We do one together and I do another one, but I don't know by heart which one, so I need to check.
Anouk: So. Yes. So there you go, fans. That's where we'll be. So Oslo, Tunisia, and Budapest.
Speaker C: All over the world.
Anouk: All over the world. It feels like that this year because.
Speaker C: You guys just came back from Vegas.
Anouk: Yep, yep. That was fun.
Speaker C: That was the, EPPP PC where the big unveil happened that we now have new logos for Power Automate and Power Ups.
Steve: Yes. And also some new, AI things coming up.
Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, we'll see about that. I mean, using AI to create an app and to create a workflow. We're not there yet.
Steve: it looked amazing on stage.
Speaker C: It always looks amazing on stage. I know.
Steve: We will see what comes and how it will come.
Anouk: It was a big stage. It was a basketball court. I mean, it was the biggest square garden. Yeah, no, but something grand thing.
Speaker C: Oh, the. Sorry, yes, the MGM Grand Arena. Yeah, yeah, sorry.
Anouk: But that actually meant that for Christine Aguilera, the stage was perfect because it was a proper, concert stage. So that worked out really very well.
Speaker C: Yeah, that was where the M365 conference, the keynotes were also happening.
Steve: Yeah, the keynotes of, the Power Platform was also there.
Speaker C: Yeah, it kind of looked like there were more people for the Power Platform conference than at the M365 conference. For the pictures and the videos I.
Steve: Saw, what did they say, around 8,000 or something like that.
Speaker C: Wow, that's nice.
Anouk: Yeah, it's a lot of people, great fun.
Speaker C: Yeah. Cool.
Anouk: And she had a dream come True.
Speaker C: Okay.
Anouk: She sat on the side of the Grand Canyon. One of her. I must do this thing. So we took a drive.
Speaker C: So you were dangling your legs over the edge or what?
Steve: No.
Speaker C: You were just sitting there on the floor, two metres next to the. Okay.
Steve: And on the glass, walking floor.
Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
Steve: Sitting down.
Speaker C: Okay.
Steve: Looking down.
Anouk: Quite painless. That was. It's still on my list, what it's worth doing. because now it's, proper, organised tour. So you sort of pay your pennies and then you go to the three different places. There's also a zip line which we didn't have time for.
Speaker C: Okay.
Anouk: But that was fun.
Speaker C: Yeah. Next time I'm in Vegas, I'll. I'll do that.
Steve: It's two hours and a half drive by car. So what's not too bad?
Speaker C: Yeah. Okay.
Anouk: But I was thinking about the icons the other day because I was talking about those. Some Nick was saying, hey, you've got the new sticker icon on your machine. I went, yeah, no, I have. I said. And I was just talking about it because today's subject is how people think. Yes, we all kind of want to talk about people, think. Yes, we do a lot about change and stuff. We do a lot about people stuff. So we thought we'd. But just talk about the problems that we have when we're rolling out technologies and changes and stuff. Not problems as such, but the different approaches that you need to take with people. Yeah. And icons is another interesting one because, like, you know, there is seems to be a real mix of people. They either hate them or they love them when they get launched and then they just put up with them. It's a, you know. But I mean, I quite like these new ones. I think they've got that futuristic 3D ish kind of copilot ish kind of stuff. But the question I keep wanting to ask, and I haven't found anybody to ask it, is did AI actually create them? Did Microsoft go to copilot, hey, I need a new, icon for OneDrive. And did they let them do that or did they still pay several hundred thousand for a design company to come up with them?
Speaker C: I think they still had a designer create them.
Anouk: Did they?
Speaker C: but on the other hand, I read earlier today that there are now two AI created songs in the Billboard top 50.
Anouk: Oh, not surprising. Yeah. And Megan two. Is it Megan two, the AI created film character in the film?
Speaker C: could be. Yeah.
Anouk: I think it's. Maybe it's not Megan 2. So if you're listening Mr. M. Director of Megan 2. I may be wrong on that, but I remember reading something that was going to the US about somebody that's developed the second version of their AI actress. The unions were going nuts so they can go on strike and then we can just do every film by A.I.
Speaker C: Sure.
Steve: Yeah. But you have also that A.I. lady that is presenting on a radio station. It's quite the same thing. So she did. Somewhere in the U.S. also there is an AI radio station or radio station. One actress presenting two hours a week. Is AI awesome. Doing conversations like we are doing now with people on the phone.
Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, why not? I mean, yeah, yeah, why not?
Anouk: So I'm actually in a room on my own with two AI people talking on this podcast.
Steve: Yeah. You did a great job to cover us in AI.
Anouk: Yeah, I know, Dragging us into AI but what have you heard about these new icons? And what actually. I mean, have you had some people that love them or some people that hate them?
Speaker C: I love them. I especially love the new OneDrive logo because that looks like a blue cowboy hat. That's awesome. Yes. but no, I like him. I heard some complaints that on the mobile devices you can't see there's no letters on the icons. And that is a little tricky for me.
Steve: at the beginning when they were on my phone and you received an email or something like that, it was strange. What is that icon?
Anouk: M. Because it was new. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C: But I like him. I always like shiny new things.
Steve: So I don't like the co Pilot Studio 1.
Speaker C: Oh, that's the radiator grill. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
Anouk: Wow.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Anouk: So people have basically been dissing these things as they come out the radiator kind of grill one, I don't suppose.
Speaker C: You know, because that was when, when they showed it, it had a little animation and it kind of looked like some tubes and then that would go into some kind of radiator grill thing.
Anouk: Cool. I believe.
Speaker C: But then also like, how would you design an icon for Copilot Studio? I mean, with Excel, it's a spreadsheet, so it needs to be some squarish table. Yeah. And then PowerPoints presenting stuff. So that's round and stuff like that.
Anouk: And OneDrive.
Speaker C: But then.
Anouk: Yeah, with a cowboy hat.
Speaker C: Blue cowboy hat.
Steve: Of course.
Speaker C: Why not? Because it's just.
Anouk: Well, I guess they're trying to be files.
Speaker C: It's galloping away. Yeah, no, it's a, it's a, it's a cloud, but it's a.
Steve: Cloud storing your Documents there.
Anouk: But you're right, it looks like a cowboy hat. And then you're right, there's no words in them. I've just looked. But do you have a phone or Windows without words underneath your icons?
Speaker C: No, but it would just make sense to have that letter, because on the. On the PC, for example, PowerPoint has the logo and it's got a capital P on there as well.
Anouk: Yeah, that's true. Or it had.
Speaker C: No, on the. On the PC it has.
Anouk: But.
Speaker C: Okay, doesn't matter now.
Anouk: Interesting. But we do get people whining about them. They come out.
Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
Anouk: Is it because of the icons or because of the change or because they.
Speaker C: Have the old tattoo logo on their body and now they need to change it? Yeah.
Anouk: Something else. Not to. No girlfriends names to be tattooed and no Microsoft icons. Yeah, I guess that's true. All right, cool, cool, cool.
Speaker C: But maybe it's now time for me to finally buy a new laptop because I need to change a bunch of the stickers that are on there.
Anouk: M. Yeah, that makes some sense.
Speaker C: Yeah. Well, anyway, cool, cool.
Anouk: So how do you think. Do you want to choose a different one?
Steve: Oh,
Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Anouk: How many podcasts have got that oi, oy on it? If I have one hundred and seventy podcasts, it's a. Oh, oh, you're pausing. Thinking sound.
Speaker C: Is that my thinking sound?
Steve: Okay, so if he gives training and you hear that sound, he needs to think about the answer that he needs to give you.
Anouk: Ask me anything. Oi, oi, yoi, yoi, yoi.
Speaker C: So most of the time, when I watch my. My own movies or listen to my own podcast, it's mainly at the start of a sentence. I start with an not, between sentences or with at the end or, And then I start a sentence.
Anouk: It's probably better than me who just dives in and then ends up not having the word sorted out because I've already halfway through the sentence in my mind and my mouth is now just getting it wrong. Yeah, yeah, it's probably a good thing to have one place, but we can train that out of you, maybe.
Speaker C: Yeah. Electric shock.
Steve: Too late. Too old for that.
Anouk: You can't. That's that English saying. You can't teach old dogs new tricks. He's not old, you see?
Speaker C: Not a dog.
Anouk: Oh, is he a fox In Belgium? So what training do you give a fox?
Speaker C: We do. Yeah. Yeah. We have dogs.
Steve: Yeah.
Speaker C: Isn't there something about an old fox? Anyway, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Let's let's talk about how people think.
Steve: The old fox doesn't lose his, temper or stripes or something like that.
Speaker C: Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Anouk: Nope, nope.
Speaker C: No.
Steve: Okay. It doesn't work when you translate it.
Speaker C: But we also have something about cows in the, in the, ah, was that, cows in the, the little waterways that run next to brooks.
Anouk: All right. Ditch.
Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Like, getting cows out of the ditch. That's also old car. Old cows. Yeah, yeah. Not, not young cows or new cows, but old cows.
Anouk: I understand that. Do you know why stairs in fire engines in fire stations are, circular stairs going up?
Speaker C: Why?
Anouk: Because the horses used to go up the stairs when they were towed around with horses. But you can't take a horse downstairs anymore. It's true. So you can't get a horse to go downstairs, so the horse has to die. But what used to happen when they first put the fire stations together with the horses? The horse would get up the stairs and then they could never get it down again. So they put spiral staircases in or the fire stations, you think? It sounds like it's not true, but it is true.
Anouk: Because the horses, well, maybe that was the only way to get the horse down.
Speaker C: All right, good. Okay, enough about horses and cows and foxes and dogs. How people, how do people think about automation?
Anouk: Automation? Have, we got anybody that knows anything about automation on the podcast?
Steve: No.
Speaker C: No, but I, I, I love to think about automation and I think AI kind of falls into that as well because it's always that. It's the big dream. We'll automate all these things.
Anouk: Is it really?
Speaker C: How hard can it be to automate this? Every day I need to click on those five things. I just want to automate that. How cool would that be? How difficult can that be?
Anouk: That's what people think.
Steve: Yes, that's what people think.
Anouk: That's what people think.
Steve: Yeah, it is what people think. Oh, we will automate it. And then my life gets easier. But there is more than just the automation about it.
Speaker C: Yeah. But also the automation itself, takes time to build. Exactly. And it's got tonnes of little things that you need to decide on that you never thought about.
Steve: Yes.
Speaker C: Like, I don't know.
Anouk: Well, you said there were tonnes of them.
Speaker C: Oh, yeah. No, Every time you automate, what keeps.
Steve: My workflow from kicking off.
Anouk: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C: But like, for example, ah, a simple approval workflow. Yeah. So I have this document and I want to submit it to approval. Okay. What if, the person is not in the, what if the person's on holiday, he can't approve it. So your file is there. What if somebody changes the file while it's in the.
Anouk: Halfway through an approval process?
Speaker C: Yeah, in the submitting process, things like that.
Anouk: No, it's true. You have to think these things through. It's not a very thing. It's when people say all you need to do is. It's only. Yes, so what? People think it's a lot harder than it looks.
Speaker C: Exactly. So people think about automation like this is going to save us so much work and time and money.
Steve: Yeah.
Speaker C: But basically it's not one of the things. So.
Anouk: No, that's. Let's just be fair here. We don't believe that automation is not effective. It just has to be thought through properly because, I mean we've saved hundreds of thousands of hours by putting robots in, at Linus, for example, I think we're up to 47 or 48 and it saved a lot of time and effort. But they were thought through.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Anouk: Nobody said, oh, you got to do that, is automate the routine.
Steve: I think that's the most important thing. Most of the end users thinks like, oh, let's automate this. It's quite far up, it's quite fast done, easy to go, but then all of the effects are coming like it's not being triggered. Or, what if we do this? Or what if that happens? What if that changes? And then they need to start rethinking the entire process so they forget about the, essentials.
Speaker C: True. So you know that I'm a big fan of Elon Musk and I don't care about what anyone thinks about political or his crazy things that he's saying. I mean, I'm talking about his methodology. He's got a five step methodology, to make things better. The first one is to, question no. Well, yes, but no. The first one is to question the requirement. Then the second one is try to delete it. And then third one is to try to make it faster. And then only the last one is if we can't do anything else, you can't get rid of it. If we can't get make it faster or easier or simpler, only the last step is okay, then we'll try to automate it.
Anouk: It's not, not wrong.
Speaker C: And a lot of times when we try to automate something, the first question we should actually ask ourselves is why are we doing this in the first place?
Anouk: That is true. Because the amount. Where did this come from? I went through a process the other day that somebody did blah, blah, blah. But then they're not doing it anymore. So we got that's right. We had a power user that's doing a lot of workflows. But when you look at them, they started off to be used and then nobody bothers with them anymore. I mean we're going to talk about changing stuff potentially in a second or two. It's the same thing. You can automate something if it requires a human to do it. You've got to teach the human that. Now you don't do that, you do this instead and then change those kinds of things. So there's a lot of things to consider with an automation process. Not only what, all the scenarios that need to be done.
Speaker C: one of the silly things I'm doing right now is I've got a document, ah, library with a tonne of policy documents and They've got about 15 metadata fields and they also have a document owner and also a document owner role. So it's Jeff and he's the QHSE manager, for example. Those are two fields that people need to fill in. And now they ask me, can we automate that?
Anouk: How?
Speaker C: By looking at when they fill out the person, then I go and check the entra ID and get the person's rollback.
Anouk: Okay. And if somebody modifies it for somebody else then you get a different name in there.
Speaker C: Yeah, something like that. Yeah, yeah. no. Well, we could automate that. We could build a workflow.
Anouk: You can argue with us now, eh?
Steve: Yes.
Anouk: Why?
Steve: That's not true.
Anouk: You, that's not your role.
Steve: Yes it is.
Anouk: Yeah, it bloody is. So I think you misunderstand what I said, but go for it anyway.
Steve: But you misunderstand, Marine, what he was saying. You have a field filling in document owner that will never change if the user doesn't change it manually.
Speaker C: Yeah. Unless the user can change. The person wins the lottery and goes off to Hawaii.
Anouk: And the document owner is different. The document owner isn't a default field.
Steve: True?
Speaker C: No, no, no, it's not. so it's something that people need to fill in, but the problem is that they now need to fill in two fields, one with the name of the owner and one with the role of the owner and they kind of want to automate that.
Anouk: So there were two fields he was going to automate.
Speaker C: So saying pretty silly one of the two. Yeah, exactly.
Anouk: You see what I put up with in freeze and talk.
Steve: I know it would be boring if it was different.
Anouk: That is true.
Speaker C: And look, that's the difference between you and me when I'm explaining something and Steve asks me like something weird and I'll just go, you challenge it. And that's how you get a whole discussion and conversation.
Speaker C: And I'll just go, that's also the.
Steve: Difference being a man and a woman.
Speaker C: Maybe.
Anouk: Yeah. But actually you're acting like a man and he's acting like a woman.
Speaker C: I just let it slide.
Steve: No.
Anouk: Well, this is going to be quite fun. I hope you guys are enjoying this. You've got a right mix m of podcasts going on here. It's funny. so, yes, I think I understood it so well. anyway, so the user says that's all they need to have done. Yeah, but what happens when somebody changes one? It's going to change the other. So when you try to explain them to this, they either have to accept.
Speaker C: The consequences or there's so many things that could go wrong. I kind of want to do a lookup, fill to a list.
Anouk: Yeah.
Speaker C: And then have the other column appear automatically. but yeah, that was apparently too hard or something for them to understand. So they would rather write down a name instead of choose someone with a name in a role. But okay, whatever.
Anouk: And I'm assuming that the person that created the document is not the same one that owned it. I know it's ah, different before you start.
Speaker C: Could be, doesn't matter. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that everyone always thinks that automation is easy. It's just next, next finish and it's some technological thingamajig. But basically you need to think it through. You need to understand why you want to do this. Is it being used and is it.
Steve: Giving you value back instead of doing it manually for one or once or twice.
Speaker C: Yeah. Build some governance around it, all these.
Anouk: Things, who's going to edit in the future and all that kind of stuff. So, Elon Musk then is right. Get the requirements right. Yes, it's true. Yeah, very, very true. And not only the requirements are not just technical requirements nowadays either. You also have to think about the business processes associated with these things because that change in automation will potentially change the way you do your work. And other people need to be aware of that.
Speaker C: And that has always been the question ever since the first day I started doing SharePoint is you can change your business process to make it work like SharePoint works if you want document approval or something, or you can tweak SharePoint so it works just like the business process does.
Anouk: Yeah.
Speaker C: So the one is. Well, they're Both expensive, but the one is more expensive in change, nature. The other one is more.
Anouk: But if you just do what the business does already, then are you adding any value?
Speaker C: Exactly. Yes.
Anouk: So I mean, you might be speeding it up, I suppose, because a lot of the robot work is, hey, we train it by following you where you click your mouse and do what you do. And we just. So you can just get started and it will then do the work. I always get amazed when they, they, they train a robot to spray a piece of metal because they just get a human to spray it first and the robot records the movements and then that's it. And then that human's never needed anymore.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Anouk: So what I want to know is, does that human get a percentage of every future piece of car that's sprayed a bit like a.
Speaker C: That, would be cool.
Anouk: Yeah. Ah, royalties, royalties, royalties on, on exactly.
Speaker C: Spraying the right original artwork.
Anouk: Yeah.
Speaker C: Okay, that's good.
Anouk: So automation then. Let's talk about AI again.
Anouk: So we're talking about progress and we're talking about Power Automate and AI is going to have a reasonable part in there. We're talking about apparently, using AI to generate code. Because I know one of you two use a lot of AI to generate code.
Speaker C: Every now and again.
Anouk: Every now and again.
Speaker C: And also every now and again. It works.
Anouk: I mean, we did the same as well. M. back at the office. and Nick T. Who's got his own podcast, he's actually built his own podcast hosting environment from Vibe by Vibe Computing. Just.
Speaker C: Okay.
Anouk: Just for the heck of it. And this actually takes the podcast they recorded and does all of the transcriptions and sends it off to everything.
Speaker C: Amazing.
Anouk: And he did it by Vibe. Took him a long time to do it, but he said, yeah, I just wanted to do it by telling it what to do.
Speaker C: Okay. Oh, that's, that's amazing.
Anouk: Which is fine unless he needs to fault. Find something.
Speaker C: Oh yeah, yeah.
Anouk: Because I think you've said in the past, podcast, that using AI to generate code ends up generating complicated code.
Steve: Yep, it does.
Anouk: And that gets us to the point of whether you trust this. So how people think talks about how they trust technology. I mean, what do they think about technology? Do they think it's a benefit or do they generally hate it?
Speaker C: Well, if they, if the people talk about automation and talk about AI as it's something easy. So that also means they trust it.
Steve: Yeah.
Speaker C: Until they use it for the first time, it gives them back crappy results and then they'll change their mind. Maybe, but maybe, but probably.
Steve: They trust it and they never check the results.
Speaker C: Yes, but it's a computer, so it has to be right.
Steve: True. Computers are always right.
Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.
Anouk: Do you think we're moving to a point where right is only 80% right and we're accepting it?
Steve: I think a lot of people are already doing it with AI, so whereas.
Anouk: We strive in it for perfect queries, perfect PowerPoint templates, perfect web pages.
Speaker C: So we know I can get very annoyed by an ugly PowerPoint or an ugly Excel for that matter.
Anouk: But it's one of the things that AI will fix. They'll never give you an ugly PowerPoint.
Steve: Are you sure about that?
Anouk: You guys are both thinking and wondering, it might not be the right point or it might not say the right message.
Speaker C: I can't say anything yet. we need to wait until ignite. But I've seen, I've seen some ugly PowerPoint. I've seen things.
Anouk: You've seen things. Okay, cool, cool. So that might get changed then. So the definition of AI ugly and AI beautiful has now been made. Yeah, okay.
Speaker C: I think so. I think so.
Anouk: But the question still stands, regardless of the PowerPoint thing, do we accept that the fact that AI is going to save time, which it will.
Speaker C: Yes.
Anouk: That you don't necessarily look for 100%. That my 8020 rule that everybody knows me, knows I work with is now going to become the de facto standard?
Speaker C: True. Because AI is going to give you answers. But then, indeed, as you said, like what percentage of those answers are.
Anouk: Right or being checked.
Speaker C: Or being checked. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, that's. Yeah, I, I see that with my daughter, when she needs to do like, she needs to give a lot of presentations because that's how the school works. That's that special kind of system.
Anouk: Ah, special kind of school.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Anouk: Let's not go there. Because I know your daughter's smart as. So.
Speaker C: Yeah, she is. but she also uses AI to research a bunch of topics that she needs to talk about. And sometimes she just writes things down and she's got absolutely no idea what she's talking about. And even if it's right, even as well.
Anouk: And it's so easy to get. I mean, especially, I have great conversations with my wonderful daughters, about the current thing, you know, and it's because they've read it on the Internet or, you know, there's a bit of a trend item, like at the moment, at the moment there's a fairly anti Israel thing, which it's not my message. But they're starting. There's a lot of websites that go, hey, don't Disney Channel. Cancel your Disney Channel. Because they did X and Y and they own a piece of land in Israel that they bought 15 years ago. I mean, are they supposed to sell it now or. So they. And they don't necessarily think down that, down that level. Which is why I really do believe.
Speaker C: That that's the thing of the day.
Anouk: I think it's Yeah. And it's a mindset change for the people that deal with detail in the world. Like your PowerPoints and. Sorry your power flows and things that need to be precise and do.
Speaker C: Yes, they need to be. Yeah, exactly. Do the right thing.
Anouk: But maybe it's going to be easier because we can give them. That doesn't really fully work, but accept it.
Speaker C: Well, actually, yeah, that's. That sounds like a good example of what my daughter was doing. She was doing a presentation about Thomas Edison who was born in the us so she took a piece of the of the world map that was showing South America because that's where he was from. He's from America. Yeah, but that's South America. That's us is in North America. So that's a few thousand kilometres difference.
Anouk: Have you ever seen those great videos where somebody interviews somebody in the streets, you know, and ask them a question about their own country or their own town? So it's going to get kind of worse, isn't it? so again, Charlotte. I know. Well, so I know that this is interesting. It's probably as you're describing, a shortcut because. But if you showed her the map of the world and you to identify say 10 countries, would she be able to work out where they are? Because one of the things. While you're thinking about that for saying one of the things I think that has happened is that people are being very focused on certain kinds of things. Their education, the. In the Internet, etc, etc, they focus on America or their focus on China if we take it as a country. But they're not ever really looking at, hey, this is the world look.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Anouk: So do you think you could do 10 countries?
Speaker C: Depends on the countries. If you ask me where Uganda is and the map of Africa, I wouldn't be able to pinpoint.
Anouk: At least you got Africa right. So would she notice in Africa?
Speaker C: Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.
Steve: But that will be another discussion. AI is making people a little bit thumber.
Speaker C: Well, but then the question is, do I need to know where Uganda is?
Steve: No, but some things you do.
Speaker C: Yeah, unless I'm flying there, but then I want to look it up.
Anouk: But then, I mean then you'd be precise again and you'd focus on it.
Speaker C: That's true.
Steve: Make it different. How many people can drive to a place without the gps?
Speaker C: True. Yeah. Less and less. Yeah.
Steve: That's what happens with the gps. So it will happen again with. But then with AI, I think you might.
Speaker C: Yeah. Well the, the question is, why are we still driving cars ourselves?
Anouk: Well then we, we then end up picking up another leaf. What do people think about technology?
Speaker C: Yeah.
Anouk: So the next one. What do people think about technology in that they're depending on it now. Like as you say, there's no map in a car. Used to buy a car and you get a number of things including a map of the country or the area that you're in to drive around. Now you just have to use your phone.
Speaker C: Yeah. You don't have a spare wheel anymore even. No spare tire? No.
Anouk: Because you put your mobile app on it and it gets you home.
Speaker C: I don't know.
Steve: No, it's.
Speaker C: It used to be these telephone poles on the highway every, the telephones, they're all gone now as well.
Steve: You have a little kit in the car to prepare your own tire if needed. Yeah.
Speaker C: Unless you skirt the sidewalk a little. And you just.
Anouk: So. No, but thinking about technology, are we people thinking about technology as a replacement for stuff and they just accept what they're given or are we just watching it because. Well, certainly me, you've been around a while, sitting there looking at what we used to have and what we have now. But they accept technology is going to be there.
Speaker C: Well, we, we are the last generation that grew up without the Internet and without mobile phones.
Anouk: And you had no Internet.
Speaker C: No, I think we had Internet when I was 14. I think that's when the Internet, cable, the modem got bought and connected to the.
Anouk: Well, 14 was really when you were about to start on it, but I'm assuming you're thinking they didn't have it at 6. 7.
Speaker C: Amazing. For my first endeavours into the world of Internet porn. Yeah, exactly. Waiting seven minutes for this picture of this naked lady to finally come here. Yeah.
Anouk: So really did change.
Speaker C: Yeah. But we also got a €12,000 phone bill then for the modem, so. No, but I mean we, I was talking about this with ah, a couple of friends over the weekend, that we are the last ones that we actually know what it is to be bored if we were younger and we Were bored. We would walk outside and we found a stick and we would play with the stick because that's just what we would do. Whatever.
Anouk: And now you look around, wait to see when it was dropped a phone.
Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. So now my daughter, every time she has like two seconds of waiting time in at the store or whatever, she just takes her phone and start. Starts messaging people. She has no idea what it is to be bored.
Anouk: Interesting. I thought about it.
Steve: Very interesting.
Anouk: So does that mean we're probably the last generation that understand about turning a phone off and putting it to one side?
Speaker C: I think so.
Anouk: And relaxing.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker C: But also, is that a bad thing? Because now I'm. I don't want to sound like I'm complaining or like the old man yelling at the clouds, but it's. Is it a bad thing? I don't know. Because people were also saying, oh, you're playing video games and you're playing online with your friends and you're not seeing them in real time. Yeah, but is that, is that bad?
Anouk: I mean, I don't know, but it's different, isn't it? if you think if you go back 50 years when the televisions first came in, I mean, I go back a bit further than you, so I definitely didn't have the video in my early life, but we didn't have colour television either. I remember the day we. My mum was so excited because they'd now got a colour television.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Anouk: You know, and so what did I do then? I mean, as you say, you kept yourself occupied. So you still didn't get bored? No, because you found something to do. So I don't know whether the concept has changed, it's just what you do about it. But I mean, I still get bored now, but it's because I've either done everything or I don't want to do something. And I'd rather be bored. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C: No, I can still remember like on Wednesday afternoons or weekends where I was like, what am I gonna do? I don't know, I'll just go walk around or I'll read a book or I'll. You had something play with my GI Joe toys or whatever. And.
Anouk: Yeah, I get that. But we were talking about technology and I think, yeah, one of the things that struck me this weekend again, so yesterday I went to a concert, and I was in Brussels and I ordered my taxi and my phone was down to 7% because I'd been filming Dire Straits Experience for the last two hours. And when I went to Workter. I took a Poppy car and my battery went on my phone. I couldn't open the Poppy car and so I had to go and find a policeman, said, could I borrow your charger, please, in your van to charge my phone? So once it was charged and unlocked, it was all good. It was just getting the phone started.
Steve: It will not happen anymore.
Speaker C: There, there is, you say that.
Anouk: But the fact that last night I certainly thought, well, I know that I was going to need a taxi at 11 o'. Clock.
Steve: You know, there is something like power banks that you can take with you.
Anouk: But if you're not. Yeah, but there's always a solution that, that doesn't necessari that you have the stuff ready. And what I'm talking about is dependency. So now I'm dependent on my phone and the power bank.
Steve: Yes.
Anouk: Okay. And, and keeping charged.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Anouk: So you're doubling up my memory work.
Speaker C: Yeah. good exercise. There was even, a, a, lawsuit against Netflix. Ah, not Netflix, Uber. I think it was, because they, the app on the phone had access to see how much battery life you had, and if your battery life was down to 5% or less, they would charge you more for the ride because they knew you were in trouble and you had to go somewhere and before your phone dies. So they were charging you more because your phone was almost ready to die.
Anouk: But that lawsuit's okay because the guy could still say, no, I don't want to pay it.
Speaker C: True, there are. Do you want to risk it?
Steve: No.
Anouk: But the choice was his, isn't it?
Speaker C: Oh, no, absolutely.
Anouk: I, I, you could say the same thing with Uber, because any app, all right, takes, advantage. Market value is everything in everything and everywhere, isn't it? And so, when they say, hey, it's getting busy, so there's not many Ubers around, so we're going to charge you more to see whether you pay for it.
Steve: Yeah, true. How many people does read the small letters when you install an app?
Anouk: Oh, good question. People think about technology. How many people just go, yes, agree, agree, agree.
Speaker C: I so there's a lady on LinkedIn and I can't remember her name, but she always posts this very funny, images. And one of the images she posted was this box underneath says, yes, I've read the whole, the whole thing. And then, it would give, like a remark back. It's 200 pages. You can't have read that in 0.6 seconds. We're gonna disable the check yes box for about, two hours and then after two hours, it will be enabled again. And now then you can check it and then you can say, I've done it. Yeah, that was funny. But no technology, I think we all depend on it, we take it for granted. A lot of times there's so much cool technology in our world. I mean, pacemakers, whatever, all these things, so much cool stuff. And we all take it for granted and we just think that it's normal.
Steve: Yep.
Anouk: That's interesting, isn't it, how people think? They just think technology is normal.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Anouk: What's coming around?
Speaker C: Well, new technology is scary and it's weird and I don't know if I'm ready for this, but once it's there and everybody's using it, then, yeah, why not?
Anouk: And you still get the fact that technology is good or bad. So I have a new heating system in the house and I have an app, but I can only get the app in French and they've not developed the app enough to choose multiple languages. I know you're sitting there looking amazed, but it's true.
Steve: He's going to do the same thing like I did. Trying to change the language.
Anouk: Yeah. I, know there's no way of changing it in the app. And apparently when I made about, they said, well, it depends where you are when you downloaded it. I was in the middle of Antwerp, which is not French.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Anouk: But, yeah, the French was what it was done.
Speaker C: Okay.
Anouk: so it's not just about the newer technology, it's about how a company takes the responsibility and respect for that technology.
Speaker C: Sure. Yeah. And earlier today, I logged in into a Citrix environment from my. My laptop, which is a QWERTY laptop. And in the vdi I had three choices of keyboards and they were all Belgian point A keyboards.
Anouk: Yeah. So, I mean, it's a bit like everything. It falls short of what it could be sometimes.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Anouk: And that is my frustration. I think about some technology, so I look at it and go, that's stupid. Why did you do that?
Speaker C: Yes.
Anouk: You know.
Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. it's the same in my very expensive 4x4 car. So it's got a digital, screen in front of me and it's got a big screen on the side. And, if I choose the, GPS of the car, I can have it in front of me, but when I use Google Maps, it can only be on the big screen and not on the small screen in front of me, which I think is super stupid, because my Spotify information, that can be in front of me, but my GPS can Only be on the big screen, not in front of me.
Anouk: When I bought Marvin, which is the same system that you're running, they told me I had to pay extra to get my Waze map on my screen.
Steve: They never give me that option because otherwise I would have done it.
Anouk: Yeah. I remember being asked.
Speaker C: So silly.
Steve: So I don't have my ways in my head. Up display, which is even more frustrating. Yeah. More fun driving if you have it there.
Speaker C: You only have the default GPS there.
Steve: Yeah.
Anouk: And the other thing I find frustrating though is it's software. You should be able to go download app, pay for it, be done with it.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Anouk: But they don't. You can't even have it added afterwards when you build the car because they encode all the operating system and so it's not built because they want to be efficient with chips and costs and stuff. So. Yeah. you can't kind of say, I want a car with an extra powerful processor in, please. No, doesn't, work that way.
Speaker C: That's funny. Well then again with what, what Elon Musk is doing, for example, is he, one of the things that he's doing.
Anouk: Is, gonna get the thing. Moraine loves Elon.
Speaker C: Yeah, I should, I should have something like that. Yeah. no, but he was also like, if we need extra calculation capacity, for the big data centre, one of the things that he can do is just hook up a bunch of Teslas because they all have proper, processing capacity for all the self driving stuff. So he can, he can just hook a few thousand of them up and then he's got a new data centre.
Anouk: I remember watching a video of U2 playing live and they were. Their whole back line on the stage was powered by Toyota electric cars. You know the the Prius power units. No, not the, there's not just, not just the battery ones. the, the special ones that.
Steve: They're not the hybrid ones.
Anouk: No, I'm trying to think. It's the power cell. The, the, the.
Speaker C: There's a special kind of the fuel cell.
Anouk: Fuel cells.
Speaker C: Yes.
Anouk: Yeah. So they run the whole back line in Tokyo for off these cars. So. Yeah. Concert sponsored by. It's clever gadgets.
Speaker C: Clever. Yeah.
Steve: Nice marketing.
Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. If it works. That's the technology thing. Yeah, if it works, it's all fine.
Anouk: We're going to drink a bit in a minute. But I got one more question on what people think about technology. is people, is technology being pushed to people or are people pulling technology? Because we work in an environment where we talk about what the business need before we build something. But you have this entrepreneur kind of stuff. Well, we do and we don't. I mean ideally in an environment where you're trying to be efficient and money wise, you want to make sure what you build is going to get used. But generally do people take a phone and they just accept what they're given or not? I mean if I get a phone I try and get rid of all the bloatware immediately. But my Samsung has just had a big update and now my Google account is the second account and the Samsung one is the primary one. And so now I have to have all the Samsung keyboards and everything else. But I'm guessing everybody else with a 24 or 25 is going to have the same thing over the next few months. So my question is quite simple. Are people actually defining the technology they use or are they just using what's in the market?
Speaker C: I think the answer is yes.
Steve: Which of us do?
Speaker C: Well, both of them. Yes. both of them. Because I remember about 150 episodes ago we did an episode about baseline governance where we said just turn everything on and the people that want to use it, they'll just use it. And the ones that don't then. Well they. Yeah, or they'll do it later on or they'll learn about later on through the early adopters. So maybe.
Anouk: The early adopters, yeah. What do you think girl?
Steve: I think people pull technology to them because they are just wanting to have easier things to easy things to make a phone call or get information and they always want to have it with them. They don't want to wait until they are finally finding somewhere, a computer or anything else. So they are pulling it to them to make sure that they are updated.
Anouk: I actually think Miranda is right. I think it's both because I was thinking about this the other day as well. It's one of the question came up when I was playing around with this wall as well. So I want to order Uber so and my brother said he doesn't have the Uber app on his phone so we'll just download it. But he's a technophobe unfortunately so he would just panic and not, not do anything. So I, I download the Uber app to I can order my car but now I can also use the scooters and order food and everything else. Now that's pushed at me. But I initially pulled the app.
Anouk: And I think so I think it is a little bit of both about where you get most value from. But Part of the problem I find now is that I get all my Uber costs paid directly with the systems that I have. Unless I order a scooter, then that's not paid directly. I have to use the proper Lime app to use the scooter so that even though they're making something the 8 Ah,020, it's not all the services, it's just the services to get the money out of you to take the scooter.
Speaker C: Sure, yes. yeah, but the same with the.
Anouk: Other stuff as well. So if you take Word and you're a, lawyer, you're going to use certain features of Word. If you're a scientist, you're going to use other features of Word.
Speaker C: Well, let's, let's talk about Loop. Okay, who wanted Loop? Who requested Loop?
Anouk: Everybody that didn't like OneNote. Can we have a OneNote that works, please?
Steve: But do they like Loop? Do you find Loupe easy to use?
Anouk: Well, I like Loupe because you can put it in different places and we all grew excited about it. And is it pushed on me or do I still choose it?
Speaker C: I don't know. Do you? It is pushed heavily by Microsoft. Yes, everywhere. But.
Anouk: So I get like, I get, a button on top of an email, says, hey, set a Loop up for this meeting. Is that what you call pushing or is that.
Speaker C: Yeah, something like that. It's, it's now, it's, well, it's popping up more and more. If you create new tab in a channel in teams, for example, it's gonna first say, do you want Loop page or do you want any of the 500 other apps? which I find weird.
Anouk: They're not allowed to do that.
Speaker C: Probably.
Steve: Yeah.
Speaker C: But, yeah, I mean, Loupe is something that emerged and I can see the reasoning behind it and I can see the value out of it. But I think that is the big reason why Loupe is not adopted that much. Because to be. To be honest, I mean, Loop is freaking amazing, but nobody's using it.
Anouk: But is that because people are not telling them, about it?
Speaker C: No, I think it's just because it doesn't have the right business case. The technology is amazing. But when would I use this? There are so many other opportunities to use this as well.
Anouk: I don't know. I don't think people know about it in the business because businesses don't push it, sell it, change it.
Steve: Do you tell it to your customers?
Speaker C: I'm, I'm always showing off Loop. earlier this week I had a call with a, real, Estate guy who's working with a number of freelancers. And he kind of wants to know when those people have time in the week to work on propositions. So he kind of wants to ask them every week, give me your availability for next week. So I said, oh, you can just do that with a loop table. And I showed it to him and he was like, yeah, but then I have to do that every week and I have to change it and in the end we just made an Excel table that we could just say in the beginning of the year, here are all the dates, the columns are the people that I work with. Then they can even put holidays, in there and whatever. It's a better solution. Loop would have been cool.
Anouk: but so this person had loops, so Therefore he had M365.
Speaker C: Yes.
Anouk: So therefore he had calendars in Outlook.
Speaker C: Yes, but these are outsiders. these are freelancers with their own calendar system. We could set up a whole trust between them.
Anouk: It wouldn't work anyway.
Speaker C: I, know it did. Yeah it would.
Steve: I have one customer that implemented Loop for an amazing use case. So they work at an office and they had a whiteboard there with the planning of all of their electricians from the entire week. But the electricians always need to call to the office because they aren't in the office, they are on the street. So they made it in loop and everybody has a tablet of the company. So they just now have it on the tablet and they can see where they need to go directly because they are mobile and able to read it over there.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Steve: So instead of the whiteboard they have now a big TV screen with a loop on it.
Anouk: Cool.
Speaker C: Which they also could do on Excel, but that would be word or in whatever.
Anouk: Yeah, but that's the point, isn't it? There's multiple ways of doing this.
Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.
Anouk: But that's a pull technology. So they, they knew what was available and somebody. I, I don't know whether there's a, ah, pull or a push in technology. I think it has changed slightly. I mean, I think obviously the money makers, are looking to be able to entice you in to do things like Uber Food and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker C: Oh yeah, but also the other things, I mean suddenly everyone had a Facebook account because everyone else had a Facebook account, so. Oh, I also want to keep up with everyone, so I'll also have one.
Anouk: I haven't had a Facebook about for two and a half years now.
Speaker C: Same thing with Twitter. Everyone went to Twitter and then Elon bought Twitter. Now everyone went away from Twitter.
Anouk: No, but the point I was trying to say was, I was going to add was I wonder whether people think I've died because I had all my old school friends on there. So I'm not replying anymore, in fact. Yeah, you know, you think, oh, do they assume I've died? you know, but, but it went because my account got. No, it was a multi factor authentication thing.
Steve: So your phone went. Died.
Anouk: My phone died, yeah. So yeah, I never replaced it, but I just gave in with it. So. But then again, I'm not as tied to this as being to some of the messages and stuff. All right, good, good, good, good. Well, we've got some left on the board, but I guess we're not going to, cover them unless you want to say something because we're now already 58 minutes in.
Speaker C: Okay. How people think about communication, it's important, but I'll let someone else do it.
Steve: I think they will. People always communicate a, good or a bad way. They will always deliver the message if they want to.
Speaker C: It's very true. There are good ways of communicating in bad ways and people don't always know the difference and they just do whatever they do.
Steve: Yeah, true. So how they think about communication, sometimes it works for us, sometimes it doesn't, but we deal with it.
Speaker C: It's a little bit like how we started the podcast by saying we just. Our brain goes bubble and our mouth follows and it can't always keep up. So communication is not always easy. No, but that's why we are doing a podcast, because we are such master communicators.
Steve: we are, we are actually quite good in communicating. Not always. Sometimes you have bad moments and you have something like, oh, leave me alone, I don't want to do this now.
Speaker C: Yes. but one of the things with communicating, for example, is I find myself, writing emails or chatting with people much more than calling people because I don't want to talk to them, but I do want to. I need to bring my message across.
Steve: Yeah, it's fine.
Anouk: You bring your message across as effectively as you, think.
Speaker C: Probably not, but I just don't want to do it. All right.
Steve: I prefer to just to take the phone call. To phone and call people.
Speaker C: Okay, cool. Okay.
Anouk: That's because you're in the car a lot.
Steve: Also. M. But even at home, I like.
Anouk: Talking to people and I think it's a different form of communication. So today I'm running a case with a company, and we're trying to resolve a big financial part of it, and it's getting complicated. Not complex, just taking a while. But I got a phone call today, and he was able to deliver the message with more sincerity than he would have been able to with just a message than just a chat. But he could have given me the same information, but he wants me to believe it.
Steve: Yeah.
Anouk: And so therefore, he chose the medium.
Steve: That works also in communication. It's part of, how if you do a video call, people's reactions on how they react to you or how do you have your tone to bring it over? And that's not always that easy on email or on chat.
Anouk: No, it's true.
Speaker C: Breaking up with my girlfriend is always so difficult.
Anouk: It is for you. Because she says, I would know.
Speaker C: I would rather. I would rather do it by text and then by talking. Yeah.
Anouk: I had an occasion today. I was on a video call, and, I need to say something to one of the members on the call. So I sent the message, and then I watched the video and I pressed send. Because you see the body language from the message. So I saw the eyebrow go up. Okay. So. Made me laugh. So obviously the message had been read, and, it always had an effect on, what they were reading. But it was just funny to actually disconnect the communication from the body language, which is all part of that, you know, like, we know you're listening because you're nodding at me and you've got eye contact, but when people are not doing that. So, yeah, with messaging, you don't get it. Yeah. All right, we're going to try, some whiskies, and maybe we'll try some wine because we have a wine drinker with us and a novice whiskey drinker. Now, I already know you're not going to like this without a chunk of water in it, so. And that is fine.
Speaker C: But, I will try because you made me curious earlier. So we are drinking the Dada Chapel Ghent whiskey. There's a single cask. Reader's high. Single cask and Whiskey bottle number 12 of 50.
Anouk: Yep.
Speaker C: Sip slowly. You're not just drinking whiskey. You're drinking a soul. You're reading a soul.
Anouk: It's been finished in a conte. In a cognac brandy cask. Oh, so it's finished in an eau de Chartreuse. Sharon. Tez. Sharon. How do you say that?
Speaker C: Guys, I have no idea what you're saying.
Anouk: Sure. Okay. there you go.
Speaker C: All right. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, but that's. Yeah, okay. It's gonna be pretty sweet then.
Anouk: Okay. Maybe it's a 59.8%. This is fairly big.
Speaker C: Okay.
Anouk: And full strength and all that. according to Holly, this is pure attitude. so expect a punch of dried fruit and toffee up front followed by floral oysters and a spicy oak grip for that finish.
Speaker C: Oysters. That's interesting.
Anouk: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker C: Okay.
Anouk: Did I say oysters? Did I read it?
Speaker C: Oysters or whiskey?
Anouk: Oh, no, I'm now floral esters.
Speaker C: I don't know floral esters. Oh. Not oysters, but floral leicesters.
Anouk: Put their own in there and it's oysters, but there you go. I've no idea what it's like. It's from Ghent. So it is a Belgium whisky from a distillery that's about six or seven years old.
Anouk: And it's from their actual first barrel.
Anouk: You have been warned.
Speaker C: Okay, okay. Interesting. The nose is big. The nose is even chewable.
Steve: You know that I will ignore the warning and just try it.
Anouk: And then that was my intent.
Speaker C: Yeah, very like stew.
Anouk: Stew. Fruit, fruits. Yeah.
Speaker C: Oh, interesting. Very interesting. It's a very heavy. Like a forest in the autumn leaves.
Anouk: Yeah.
Speaker C: Kind of thing.
Anouk: But you taste it, it's just gonna blow your brains. It's kind of got so sharp on the. On the alcohol. Yes, I did warn you. Very sharp on the alcohol.
Speaker C: It's a little too much and the.
Anouk: Finish is not there cuz all you can taste is that river of acid running down the back of your throat.
Speaker C: No, I took a tiny sip, so that kind of made it okay. But Yeah, okay. I get that. That stewed fruit boiling in my, in my church.
Anouk: I get smoky stick like a charcoal.
Speaker C: Let's see if we got two whiskeys for the price.
Anouk: We definitely have. But I'm not sure the first one I'd pay for.
Speaker C: Oh, okay. It's a very different nose.
Anouk: Yeah. And you, there's a hint, of that floral esters that Holly was talking about.
Speaker C: Yeah, it's more. More flowery and less stewed fruit. Yeah.
Anouk: Yeah.
Speaker C: It's so amazing how that just changes.
Anouk: Transformed it. Just the oxidation also.
Steve: Ah, the taste. Way better now.
Anouk: Yeah.
Speaker C: Look at the smile on her face.
Anouk: Oh, actually every so often I get toasted orange. No, not toasted orange, orange.
Speaker C: every so often I get that one taste that I hate in whiskies that I still can't put my finger on. Okay, Interesting, interesting.
Anouk: Now you've got cream and toffee.
Steve: Something vanilla or something.
Anouk: There'S definitely two whiskies for the price of one. Yeah.
Speaker C: And there's still that chilli aftertaste. I am missing a little oiliness really.
Anouk: I mean I had a lot of creamy, so I call that honey. I mean, mouthfeel is very good with the water.
Speaker C: Yeah. Because with the after days with the finish, I'm still, still enjoying a long finish.
Anouk: Only 50 bottles. So we've met the dreamer from an Office365 distilled perspective of drinking something that, is difficult to get hold of. You can only buy it from books and booze, in Ghent.
Speaker C: Ah.
Anouk: And I think you can get it the one in Antwerp. But, yeah, not so sure.
Speaker C: I, I know that the, the brand is doing a big marketing push. but mainly for their gin.
Anouk: Yeah.
Speaker C: So. Yeah. But this is interesting.
Anouk: Interesting is the right word. Interesting.
Speaker C: I wouldn't buy a bottle of this, but it's interesting.
Anouk: Yeah. But I did because I just love that conversion. So actually going to really water it down at some point and see what it actually looks like with, I might even buy a hydrometer. That's on my list. So I might take it down to 43 or something. Or 45.
Speaker C: And now that would be interesting to experiment with how certain whiskeys behave at different alcohol.
Anouk: Oh yeah, that sounds like a last inch party kind of job to do.
Steve: You gave him some ideas.
Speaker C: No, absolutely. I think that's a cool idea.
Anouk: Well, there we go. Fusion Talk, Office 365 distilled. Trio of experts around the table thinking about how people think and drinking some rather cool whiskey. Thank you for drinking the whiskey with us.
Steve: You're welcome. But I will now have the glass of wine.
Anouk: Yeah, I'm sure you will. We're going to try another one.
Speaker C: We'll try something else. All right.
Anouk: So anyway, I'm gonna, say goodbye from Steve Dolby and hand over the mic to everybody else so they can say their goodbyes.
Speaker C: Bye bye.
Steve: Thank you for listening and goodbye.