Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Vic and Marcus recap Marcus’s keynote covering two years of show themes, then dig into Trump’s pace of change, Newsom’s X strategy, July inflation and market reactions, major healthcare deals, Nvidia’s China workaround, U.S. R&D tax incentives, FDA moves, antitrust pushback, and payvider results. They also hit Omada’s growth, Lilly’s weight-loss pill troubles, crypto’s surge, Oracle Health’s EHR push, state AI rules, OpenAI’s rocky rollout, and close with caregiving, healthspan, and their...
Vic and Marcus recap Marcus’s keynote covering two years of show themes, then dig into Trump’s pace of change, Newsom’s X strategy, July inflation and market reactions, major healthcare deals, Nvidia’s China workaround, U.S. R&D tax incentives, FDA moves, antitrust pushback, and payvider results. They also hit Omada’s growth, Lilly’s weight-loss pill troubles, crypto’s surge, Oracle Health’s EHR push, state AI rules, OpenAI’s rocky rollout, and close with caregiving, healthspan, and their new studio.
Links
8:30 Inflation Held Steady at 2.7% in July WSJ
9:33 U.S. Stocks Amble to Fresh Records on Optimism for a September Rate Cut WSJ
10:26 Isaac Health secures $10.5M to advance technology for brain health and dementia care Fierce Healthcare
11:07Citizen Health Inks $30m Sereis A VC Journal
14:53 Reprieve Cardiovascular raises $61M for heart failure treatment system Mass Device
15:26 Conformal Medical nets $32M to complete trial of foam-based heart occluder Fierce Healthcare
15:57 Tony Robbins and Peter Diamandis’ longevity company Fountain Life raises $18M TechCrunch
16:56 Gameto Secures $44M to Advance Stem Cell Therapy for Infertility and Menopause HIT Consultant
17:41 Arintra Raises $21M to Help Providers Win the Reimbursement Fight MedCity
18:03 SetPoint Medical nabs $140M to commercialize neuromod device Modern Healthcare
18:36 With Billions at Risk, Nvidia CEO Buys His Way Out of the Trade Battle WSJ
23:14 No More Offshore. Startups Look to Spend and Hire in U.S. Due to Trump Tax Change. WSJ
25:03 Vinay Prasad, in surprise reversal, to rejoin FDA after abrupt departure Biopharma Dive
28:10 Nearly 6,500 providers reject Blue Cross antitrust deal Modern Healthcare
29:04 Cardinal Health Posts Mixed Results, Strikes $1.9 Billion Solaris Health Deal WSJ
30:14 Providence narrows operating losses in Q2 on volume, commercial rate gains Fierce Healthcare
30:36 Kaiser Permanente ahead of last year on revenue and profit Healthcare Finance
36:47 Omada grows revenue, membership in public earnings debut Healthcare Dive
37:59 Eli Lilly Shares Slide as Weight-Loss Pill Results Dent Enthusiasm WSJ
40:20 Bayer, Kumquat Biosciences Team Up on New Potential Cancer Drug WSJ
40:57 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi3A4443HDo
41:52 Crypto Firm Circle Posts Loss in First Earnings Report After IPO WSJ
47:22 Bullish’s Stock Soars in Latest Test for IPO Market WSJ
Every week, healthcare VCs and Jumpstart Health Investors co-founders Vic Gatto and Marcus Whitney review and unpack the happenings in US Healthcare, finance, technology and policy. With a firm belief that our healthcare system is doomed without entrepreneurship, they work through the mud to find the jewels, highlight headwinds and tailwinds, and bring on the smartest guests to fill in the gaps.
If you enjoy this content, please take a moment to rate and review it.
Your feedback will greatly impact our ability to reach more people.
Thank you.
Alright.
How's it going?
It's going pretty well.
I'm, uh, finishing summer.
Uh, both my boys are gonna college the next week.
I'll be an empty nester for the first time.
Congratulations.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm excited to get them, get them off onto their life and then figure out my next chapter and then figure out your life.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
Who am I when, when they're not home?
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
It's a big deal.
Uh, I had a great week in San Diego.
Thanks for, uh, recording without me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, uh, you know, thanks to Emily for, for filling in.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, and then kind of came back and was in town for all of a day and a half and had to go right to Boston.
Um, did a keynote.
Yeah.
Right at, uh, Huron's, uh, what's right in healthcare Event.
Mm-hmm.
And it was, uh, it was good.
Um, you know, it was an opportunity to.
Synthesize and package a lot of what we've talked about over the course of the last two years on the pod.
Yeah.
And, uh, it's the first time I've done that and like, gotten up on stage and, and presented it.
Yeah.
And it is, it was, um, you know, like it was really well received, but at the time that I was delivering it, I couldn't fully tell if it was really well received because, uh, about halfway through I realized how heavy it was.
You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
Like what?
There's a lot of change going on.
A lot of, there's lot.
It's a lot.
It's, there's a lot of change.
Yeah.
And I just felt obligated to, to frame that change in a narrative that could help.
That audience of healthcare leaders to like understand the change.
Mm-hmm.
Because I feel like, you know, the, the thing about healthcare, we, you and I, we, we study it, we invest in it, but we don't work in it.
Right.
Right.
And that's a privilege that we have, that we, that we get to do all the fun parts.
Right.
Without the, like, actual being in it.
So like one of the parts I was talking about during COVID and talking about listening to, you know, Joe Rogan and All In, and, and as I was recalling that, I also had to be like, yeah.
And if you worked in healthcare at that time, you probably didn't have time to listen this podcast because you were in crisis at that time and taking care of the country.
Yeah, exactly.
And so it, there's just kind of this, um, this sense of obligation that comes with the privilege of studying it, knowing it, but not being burdened with having to be so deep inside of it.
You know what I mean?
Like, I know well enough to.
You know, get certified with HFMA about the business of healthcare and to invest in companies and talk on stage.
But like, if I actually had to run revenue cycle for, for a hospital for a year, like I would lose a lot of the time that you and I have to do all this fun stuff.
Right.
So Yeah.
And we don't have any patients coming in tomorrow morning that need our assistance.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Exactly.
And so, so yeah.
So, um, it, it felt like an obligation to sort of say, Hey, you, you, you've been really busy running the business of healthcare while, like all this stuff is happening to you.
Yeah.
So let me try to help you understand, but at an event like that, it is part of the purpose for them to kind of pick their head up for a minute and see where, where are we headed?
I think so.
Yeah.
I think so.
And, and what I picked up from it was that what we cover on this show, um.
Really, it, uh, it, it's not any one section.
It's the collection of, of the different topics and how it all kind of fits together over time.
Yes, yes.
How it fits together over time.
Like what's, what's the, the broad narrative that makes these things that seem like they shouldn't fit, fit really well, especially in a Trump administration, right?
Yeah.
Like, it, it's a, in a, in a Biden, it's almost like, it, it was really good that we were like covering the Gary Gensler stuff because you would not understand like, what the heck is happening with crypto today.
Yeah.
If you, if you weren't tracking all that stuff over the last year and a half, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Definitely.
The, uh, Trump is unprecedented in the pace and the number of things, and also like having the perspective of covering healthcare under Biden.
You sort of appreciate it more, right?
Because of all the.
Just the differences.
I have a question for you before we do actually start covering everything.
Do you think, uh, that after Trump is no longer in office, like, do you think things will slow back down or do you think we have just established a new baseline speed?
Because like, one of the things I was, uh, noticing in my talk was there's, Trump is a central character and there's absolutely no way to, you know, he's, he's very tip of the spear.
There's no way to talk about what is happening and not talk about him.
Right.
You know, and anyone who tries to do that, like it, it's just, it's fruitless because you, you can't, you, you really can't do it.
But there, there's also this confluence of other forces, and it's like he is going to deregulate, which is going to speed things up even further and give all these other things more and more momentum.
It's like after he's gone, do we still operate at.
You know, at this pace, even if it's not coming outta DC like there's still a million things happening in the world all the time, right?
Like so what, what do you think?
Yeah, I don't, I don't think we're going back to the slow, like, methodical world.
I think that it will be almost worse'cause you won't have one dominant figure in the Republican party that's driving it.
Think because it's driving it, right?
So you're gonna have a bunch of kind of Balkanized groups but that don't think the pace is gonna slow down.
And then, you know, ideally the Dems will, will get through, act together and have something to say as well.
Have you tracked Newsom on X lately?
No.
Uh, he, so for a long time I felt like because of the California thing and some other things, like he wasn't viable dude.
He, he to me looks like the only thing remotely close to viable right now.
Yeah.
Like what he is pulling off on X is meeting the moment.
So well, like the entertainment, check him out.
Yeah.
The entertainment value, the, the, the bravery to, to like actually be a counterforce.
Yeah.
And to, and to, and to be all in and like put the full weight of whatever leverage he has as the governor of California, like all in on it.
Uh, it's unbelievable.
So, so he, he's created, we we're not, we're not covering it here, but Yeah.
He's created a, um, uh, a press office account on X and it talks in Trump.
Like literally everything is all caps.
Mm-hmm.
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's like they basically got a AI and said, Hey, take all the true social posts and we're gonna feed you stuff and spit it back out to us in Trump.
So we can then like, use that for the, and it's, you know, thank you for your attention to this matter.
Like, all the things, everything is all, you know, naming, uh, you know, coming up with names for everyone.
Like the whole, the whole thing.
He's just doing the whole thing and he's calling himself like, you know, America's favorite governor and, and all it's, it's, it's funny.
I need to check it out.
Yeah.
You, you need, you need to check it out.
Yeah.
It's, it's like, okay, game on.
Like, we got somebody Yeah.
Who, well, the first thing he did was, he'd had that podcast, he may still do it, where he, he pulled in like the, the guests that were against him, like really, um, you know, the anti, um, Gavin Newsom crowd and, and interviewed them and like, was willing to go kind of, you know, long form, hour long with people that did, don't agree with him.
And I thought that was brilliant because it doesn't matter how he does, just like, just the fact that he's there, you know, discussing these topics at, at whatever length the guest wants to go at, um, and holding his own.
Is, is the point, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So anyway, I, I just, that was kind of the big thing for me this week on next was like, Gavin Newsom I think is actually the only credible Yeah.
Opponent only one.
Only credible opponent.
Okay.
Uh, with that, let's dig in.
Starting with the economy, uh, inflation, kind of boring, holding steady at 2.7 in July, went up a little bit.
Uh, so the course 2.7, you add in, you know, food and energy and, and you know, your, you three one, yeah, it was, it was a little bit better than expected, but up.
Right.
Um, inflation's, it's pretty low, but it's ticking up slightly.
Um, so you can sort of have, whichever way your bias is, you can, you can say, well, it.
You know, it's slowly coming up or you can say it's still under three.
And I would, what I would say is it's under three and I don't care.
You well, we know what you would say, but, um, but it is, it is up.
But Powell continues to have the fuel to justify his past decisions.
Yeah.
That, that's right.
And I think that, um, a lot of people in poly market and other places feel like September is gonna be a cut.
Yeah.
Well I think that they feel that way because he really should have cut last time.
Yeah.
He really should have cut last time.
Yeah.
That, that, that didn't do him any favors.
Uh, okay.
US stocks, sample to fresh records on optimism for a September.
Yeah.
Great cuts.
Yeah.
It's, this is, uh, your next door.
Yeah.
So s and p and Nasdaq once again are at all time highs mean the Dow is right there too.
I mean, everything is high.
Is there, has there been anything more consistent over the time we recorded this show?
Than stock market All time highs?
No.
It's been across administrations.
Not every week, but, but, but once a month.
Once a once a month, month for both administrations.
That's right.
Yeah.
All time highs.
Yeah.
And it's, it's, uh, it's US dominant still developing, developing country dominant.
They're, they're under, you know, the developing world mm-hmm.
Is, is lagging.
Mm-hmm.
And small businesses are Russell's lagging.
Yeah.
Yes.
It's still, it's still Mag seven.
Still mag seven.
Alright.
Uh, moving on to vc.
Long list of three.
A lot of sizable deals.
Isaac Health secures 10.5 million to advance technology for brain health and dementia care.
This is a, it's an AI platform.
Mm-hmm.
I appreciate that.
It's not called Isaac ai.
Right.
Right.
Um, but it's an AI enabled, uh, brain health platform, combines expert clinical care with scalable digital infrastructure, patented AI screening capabilities to detect, diagnose, and manage dementia from home.
That's right.
And I think, um, dementia and Alzheimer's is a, is a big need.
One of the things that was a little bit different with this deal is it started in, uh, 22, so it's three, four years old and they're just raising their, you know, a round.
Yeah.
Now they did a seed round.
Uh, alright.
Citizen Health Inc's $30 million Series A. This is a, basically an AI Sherpa, um, helps you navigate as an individual patient from a patient-centric perspective.
Helps you navigate the, the, uh, healthcare in industry.
Yeah.
That, that's right.
And people are using it, using AI for healthcare a lot.
I don't know if you need a separate brand away from just the basic models.
Um, and if you did have one, I'd like it to be, you know, where I own my own data, which this is not, but, but yes, it's a good.
That's a good description.
Yeah.
I mean, it's there, there's an interesting thing happening right now where yes, there is a move for people to leverage AI for, um, navigating their patient journey.
Right.
Uh, in, in, in Sam Altman's, uh, yeah.
You know, yeah.
He had that cancer woman on.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah.
The, the, the couple where the woman, you know, had a cancer diagnosis and out of a whole, you know, hour and a half thing, what'd he spend?
15 minutes.
Yeah.
Long story, long story about her, her use of AI to help understand the Yeah.
Both the diagnosis and then what her, what her treatment options were.
Yeah.
And, and, uh, you know, it was really important that they had the husband there because he was sort of talking as a witness to her using it.
Mm-hmm.
He framed it as.
It was the only place she found agency right?
In the process.
Right.
Um, somebody that was there for her and well-informed and powerful enough to equip her to navigate the system and, you know, um, advocate for herself effectively.
So I, I guess I agree with you, right?
Which is to say distribution is going to matter.
Yes.
We're at the dawn of an era of patient-centric tech.
No question.
But there's a question of whether or not that patient-centric tech is going to have to come from a healthcare brand in the same way that, in the same way that tech sold to the healthcare industry has previously had to be from a healthcare brand.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Or can it just come from chat gp t or, or Amazon or Google, or, you know what I mean?
Like, does, do you need a dedicated health app for that?
Is it's just, yeah, I don't, it's just a question.
I don't know what the benefits of a dedicated health.
App R unless there is some kind of data protection aspect of it.
The, the reason I don't use AI systems for my own health questions is because I don't want open AI or other groups to have my cancer diagnosis.
I don't have cancer, but I don't have my diagnosis.
Um, but this is a citizen is is a VC-backed startup, so they're not gonna, it's not gonna change the data issue.
Yeah.
And then it says, like, tells'em what they should do next and connects them to it.
And like, again, like, no, no knock.
I hope this is massively successful.
I just, I'm just trying to like, play it out in my head and I feel like this is all gonna be part of Frontier model.
Yeah.
Interface stuff.
Yeah.
I mean, it, it's, it is more challenging than people from the outside would think to invest in AI because the frontier models are just gonna eat up everything.
They're gonna eat so many things.
And then they also are commoditizing themselves on pricing.
Andro.
We don't have a, I didn't, we're not covering here, but Anthropic offered, so last week Emily and I talked about it, uh, chat.
G BT is offering a dollar subscription fee to the government, and now Anthropic matched it.
And so, I mean, they're just racing to the bottom of pricing already.
Yeah.
And now Anthropic has memory.
Right.
You know, they don't have it for the Pro plan yet, but in a month they will.
You know what I mean?
That's right.
It's like, it's like, yeah.
So anyway, uh, best luck to Citizen, uh, reprieve.
Cardiovascular raises 61 million for heart failure treatment system.
This is a device so large round, but you know, for device in a series B, uh, oversubscribed Deerfield let it.
Uh, so congrats to, to that team.
Uh, and, uh, yeah, it's, you know, yeah, it's, it's, it's a congestive heart failure device slash treatment, um, which is really about, uh, sort of water retention, sodium diuretics.
It's a huge opportunity.
I don't They're continuing on know exact.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
They're continuing on.
Right.
Uh, alright.
Conformal medicals, that's 32 millions to complete trial of foam based heart udder.
Uh, so this is a device that's gonna help people with, uh, reduce the lifetime risk of stroke, uh, with people who have AFib.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
So I think, um, there is, there's an Boston Scientific, uh, product out there that would compete with it.
It's an implant.
This is more of a foam, but yeah, it's, it's a, it's sort of an adjunct to heart, heart treatments.
Okay.
Uh, Tony Robinson, Peter Demanis, uh, they have a long longevity company called Fountain Life.
It's like a, a concierge doc on steroids with all the different scans.
You know, your Provo, your, your Grail.
It's a competitor to Grail and function and the, the, yeah.
Well, no, I think they probably like take all that stuff in and they give you like a higher touch with an actual clinician.
You know, that's what, that's, I think it's like pulling all of those different scans plus a dedicated doc.
Mm-hmm.
You know, so this is like, if you listen to Peter Ortea and you can't afford Peter, Peter Orilla.
Yeah.
You, you go do Tony and Peter's fountain life thing.
Right.
Right.
You know what I mean?
Uh, so they raised 18 million, but this is, uh, previously they'd raised 80 million, so they've raised over, uh, 108 million at this point.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and look, I mean, these are two massive brands in longevity space.
Yeah.
And, uh, you know, I, I think as we continue to see the Khap economy, you know, do its thing, uh, this is increasingly the part money's gonna go.
People want longevity.
Yeah.
It's gonna be where more and more money's gonna go.
Increasingly, fem tech CME secures 44 million to advance stem cell therapy for infertility and menopause.
This is a new way to do IVF.
Mm-hmm.
I guess so.
It's not so invasive.
They, they mature the eggs outside the body as opposed to, so I don't, I don't know the space well enough, but it's a, it's a. It's a new technology in correlation.
Well, I mean, IVF is is, you know, incredible and has created so many miracles for so many families and is also very, very difficult.
Yeah.
That's, you know, that's right.
So, uh, more of it because I know that there's, there's, you know, plenty of need out there, but also need to make it less.
Make it better.
Yeah.
Make it, make it a better process that's less stressful for, for the families.
Right.
Um, alright.
Uh, ARA raises 21 million to help providers win the reimbursement fight.
So, uh, this is series A and this is another rev cycle management, you know, warrior sitting on one side of the, or another side going on in space.
That's right.
So yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
Uh, peak 15 partners was the, was the investor on this deal, uh, setpoint Medical nabs 140 million to commercialize Neuromod device.
So this is that device that we, uh, talked about a couple weeks ago.
Yeah.
We, two or three weeks ago.
Yeah.
They embedded that put the inflation information embedded in the, um.
In the neck and it sort of wraps around the vagus nerve maybe, or is it does something to the, to the vagus nerve to deal with inflation.
Yes.
And so not inflation, not inflammation.
Not inflammation, inflammation.
Right.
Yeah, that's exactly, I mean, so we, we learned about it two weeks ago and now they're announcing 140 million.
Right.
So that seems like just good pr that Right.
They had had that round kind of, uh, well in hand.
Okay.
With billions at risk.
NVIDIA's, CEO buys his way out of the trade battle.
Uh, so, so this is basically a little bit of a biopsy on what actually happened in how that deal.
Yes.
How did we get to Nvidia getting to sell the H 20 chips?
Right.
Right.
And in return pay the US government 15% of revenue.
Right.
Right, right.
So, uh, well first of all, there's a, there's an aspect of this, which is Jensen Wang was effective in, uh, convincing President Trump.
That it was a better strategy because I, I, I think deal aside, you know, and, and Revshare aside, I think if he was not able to convince him that it was strategically the right thing to do, that he wouldn't even gotten to the part of like, give us a cut.
Right.
Right.
Um, so he was able to convince, uh, and probably was some assistance from David Sachs, I would imagine, you know, because I know we, we, we listen to BG two quite often and Bill Gurley is really big into the, like, you gotta let this market play out.
Right.
So, so yeah.
S SATs and, uh, Lutnick Yes.
I mean, talks about it in here, really, they, uh, the three of them were sort of coordinating on this.
Got it.
Yeah.
So, so this is where you feel good about some of the people that Trump has around him, you know, helping him to sort of think game theory, this kind of thing out.
Yeah.
I mean, there's a core, I share their belief that the age 20 chip is not the cutting edge technology.
Oh, well, I think that's, and it's objectively true.
It's, it's really for inference.
Yeah.
And so, um.
If we don't sell them these chips, they're gonna, they're gonna do inference with, with something They're gonna Correct.
They're, they're gonna be, they're gonna, right.
They're gonna take that limitation, be innovative, right.
And create a, a competitive approach.
It may not be a competitive chip, but they'll create a competitive approach, right.
As we've already seen them do they, Kim EK two, and on and on and on, right?
So I think that's where Sachs, I think Sachs, but maybe Lunik Yeah.
Gave credibility to make them dependent on us in the same way we've been, been dependent on them from manufacturing.
Right.
We, you know what I mean?
Like Yes.
There, there there's a, there's a strategy here that is pretty clear.
Yeah.
Uh, but now, now that we've sort of talked about that, uh, Trump was able to, uh, negotiate a deal where the country, uh, it gets a, you know, a pretty handsome cut of, uh, of, of all the chips sold to China.
Yeah.
That, that's right too.
Um, the deal, let's just cover the deal for.
The US Treasury, I think gets 15%, like a rev share of, of the sale of the age 20 trips.
And so one, uh, it's a lot of money and that is, I guess, good, but two, it, it is, uh, like everything Trump's doing.
It sets a an interesting slash dangerous precedent that, you know, either this is not a national security risk and therefore Nvidia should be able to sell whatever they wanna sell.
Or it is a national security risk, right?
The saying it's not a risk, but in order for us to allow you to do it, you gotta, you gotta pay.
Um, it, it, it feels like a, a tax on exports.
Which is in the Constitution and not allowed.
And so it is not that because Trump doesn't want it to be that.
Um, but it sounds a lot like that.
I mean, Trump is just, he's a deal guy.
He's trying to get money for the US government, which is laudable, I think, but there's gonna be another president and another president.
And I think it's a little bit of a slippery slope.
I mean, I'm happy for the money to come in, but would we sell them a a f 35 bomber if they paid us?
I, I have arrived at the point where it's obvious not just to me, but to everybody, that he will test every limit.
Every limit.
Yeah, every limit.
So it's not a surprise.
It's not even like, it's almost not worth commenting on because it'll get worked out in the courts or it won't.
You know what I mean?
But he's gonna test every limit to achieve his goals.
That's just it.
Yeah, that's right.
Wall Street Journal.
No more offshore startups look to spend and hire in US due to Trump tax change.
So this is the r and d tax credits?
Yes.
That were in.
That's right.
Uh, the one big, beautiful bill.
Um, and yeah, I mean, they're incredible.
Yeah.
So if you're, if you are building a software product mm-hmm.
The, the employee costs, the salaries can be sort of written off right away.
Mm-hmm.
Just like, just like every, uh, expense.
But you didn't used to be able to do that.
It's, it's over like 15 years normally.
Um, so it's having the effect that one would expect, which would be really good for the economy.
Probably by next year we'll start to see it where people are investing in new buildings, new equipment, and new people to build products today.
'cause of the tax advantages, but then that's gonna create jobs and construction and everything.
No, look, I mean, I'm, I'm so pro this RD tax credit, I think it's fantastic because if you wanna think about things to do that are very across the board, right?
For, for all businesses that will incentivize Nearshoring, onshoring and also innovation, like especially in the face of, you know, some of the, the, um, the removal of federal financing of those things.
Mm-hmm.
Like it's not quite, uh, it's not quite circular or, or, you know, quite gonna make up for, with the organizations that took the lion's share of all the NIH funding for example.
Yeah.
But from a distribution perspective, like, you know, for our portfolio companies, I think we can more aggressively encourage them, uh, to.
Invent things, you know?
Yeah.
To invent things and, and that's always like a thing as VCs we don't like to do because it's a sunk cost and it's, it's hard to make up for.
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah.
No, I think this is great.
It was really good staying in policy Vinne Prasad in surprise reversal to rejoin the FDA after abrupt departure.
So as soon as you put this link in there, immediately I was like, this is, you know, Marty McCart just saying, I need this guy.
This is my guy.
And, you know, whatever happened, it, it wasn't worth sacrificing him, I think is, is what it sort of sounds like.
Yeah.
And, and probably, you know, on the way back in they said Heyne like no more of like, uh, you know, screwing with the right to try stuff.
You know what I mean?
Like, that's, that's a, that's the third rail.
Don't touch that, you know, COVID vaccines all day, you know, you can give them hell as much as you want, but like, don't screw with Right.
To try on rare diseases.
How about that?
Yeah.
I mean, I, I think that's.
Probably right.
I think it's also the right answer.
Like there was no reason for the ade to be sort of run out of, of FDA.
There's no reason for that.
Yeah.
So he's back and he can do his job.
Yeah.
I mean, I, I, I view, as I've said many times on the show, I, I view Mcca as being a very strong pick and the FDA a is a, you know, it's a scientific organization, right?
Yeah.
And so, um, it, that is probably an organization that will need the most coaching on the political Yeah, yeah.
You know, um, on the political hotspots.
And I, I'm glad that they were able to figure out a way to sort of, yeah.
You know, get, get him, get him back into the, you know, into the fold.
Um, look, there, there are a lot of people that are worried about.
The FDA, just mainlining things without enough, you know, regulatory clarity.
Mm-hmm.
And I would just say generally speaking, I don't know his entire, you know, background or philosophy, but I know he is going to be thorough about what makes it through in terms of cell and gene therapy.
Right.
Yeah.
And which we'd want.
I mean, I think we need to have, I think so.
Yeah.
I, I think so.
Right.
So again, we want tomorrow people in the job and we want them to, you know, have the best chances of success.
Right.
Best you can, hopefully.
And the right to try concept is not in conflict with the FDA, being really cautious about approving things.
Those are, they can run in parallel.
They, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They can.
But I do think it's fair to say that that's a gray area, right?
Mm-hmm.
Because those diseases usually are all fatal and, yeah.
And, um, often very painful and, and often diminish quality of life significantly.
And so.
Kind like you're already kind of in a really bad place, right?
So the risk of taking something that could really harm you, you're not that worried about that.
You're not that worried about that, right?
Like you're, you're just looking for a shot at any kind of relief you can get usually.
So yeah, that's what I mean.
Like the, the fact that someone who is, um, has a, has a, you know, deadly disease and is suffering, wants to try something that isn't yet approved, I think I'm okay with that.
I don't think it has much to do with FDA running a kind of an appropriate process.
Yes.
For the rest of us.
Yes, we agree.
We agree.
Um, okay.
Moving into the payers, nearly 6,500 providers reject the Blue Cross antitrust deal.
So we've been covering this for like a year now.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
It's a slow, slow process.
Yeah.
But it seems like it's kind of coming to a head now, right?
Yeah.
Where clearly there's a sufficient number of providers who have just said no.
Um, you know, thi this week it's Mayo, LifePoint, and Trinity.
Those are three big brands, big systems, and so.
That to me tells me, you know, I mean, they're, they're mentioning here also, you know, Providence, uh, is, is not accepting it.
And so clearly the providers have all aligned and said, you know, we're, we're not, we're not going for this.
Yeah.
So the, there's a offer to settle this dispute that the big providers, 6 6500 of them are not buying into the whole thing's likely to fall apart and after renegotiate or go back to court, whatever.
Yeah.
Uh, moving into providers, Cardinal Health posts, mixed results, strikes a $1.9 billion Solaris health deal.
So Cardinal continues to move into specialty care.
Mm-hmm.
Um, they bought, um, specialty networks and now they have Solaris Health.
I think this is really smart and it gives them a full vertical model all the way from, you know.
Manufacturing of certain devices to warehousing, to distribution.
Um, they had a, a, a pretty big at-home, uh, delivery business.
And now they're actually, you know, delivering care at the, at the specialty level, higher margins, you know, more, more meaningful than just the, the low margin.
Yeah.
More differentiated.
Yeah, more differentiated.
Um, so yeah.
Makes, makes, uh, makes good sense.
Um, you know, the stock is up a little bit now, um, even though the shares humbled, uh, after the mixed results that were reported.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I mean, I think they're doing the right things.
It's, it's transformations.
It's a slow process to transform.
It's a pretty big ship.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It, good job.
Yeah.
Transformation.
But I, but I think, I think, I think it's, I think the high level strategy makes sense.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm not, I'm not sure what else you would expect them to do.
Get it.
Like what business would you expect them to get into?
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
That they could competently do.
Right, right.
Providence narrows operating losses in Q2 on volume, commercial rate gains.
So this is, uh, you know, uh, an improvement on a pretty bad baseline.
Right?
Yeah.
Less bad than a really terrible.
Two years ago.
Right.
So they're making progress, I guess, but they still have some ways to go.
Right, right.
Continuing on Kaiser Permanente ahead of last year on revenue and profit.
I mean, Kaiser execute.
Yeah.
Sort of the opposite of Providence.
Yeah.
Executing extremely well.
Yeah.
Um, second quarter net income, 3.2 billion, 55% increase over last year's Q2 net income of 2 billion.
So I mean, that's just outstanding.
Yeah.
Uh, first half of the year is pretty loaded up because they have all the enrollments coming onto their plan and so, you know mm-hmm.
It, second year of the second half of the year won't post, you know, as high numbers, but we'll see how they do year over year.
Uh, but the CEO did sort of acknowledge that there are challenges out there.
Greg Adams, uh, this sentence I think is, uh, actually I'll read the whole paragraph.
Yeah.
I think it's, I think it's meaningful just from a company that's performing so well.
Uh, end quote.
Uh, while we are pleased with our second quarter performance, like others in the healthcare industry, Kaiser Permanente.
Navigating a shifting landscape marked by an aging population and evolving consumer expectations, as well as the recently enacted federal budget reconciliation bill, which will reduce healthcare coverage and funding as healthcare costs, rise said Chair and CEO, Greg Adams, again, in quotes, uh, to meet these challenges, we are focused on enhancing quality service and access, and redesigning our cost structure as we lead the shift toward value-based care that prioritizes affordability and improve patient outcomes.
So that last sentence, um, focused on enhancing quality service and access.
I mean, I think there's, there's a few things there, right?
Access.
Do you think that they mean that in terms of the NT efforts that they're doing, or do you think that they mean that in terms of leveraging more and more technology, or do you think they mean that in terms of.
You know, going more consumer like, like how do, how do you think Kaiser means they're going to, uh, enhance access in particular quality?
I kind of get, you know, service I get as well.
But access I think is an interesting point.
And then I wanna get to the, to the redesign and cost structure.
I think they have a commitment to take care of the populations where they, where they have presence.
Sure.
And so Verizon is growing, is, is gonna grow that to more geographies.
But, but I took it to mean that, um, even though they had profits of in the billions, right?
Mm-hmm.
2 billion or 3 billion.
That's ridiculous.
Um, they are not walking away from their commitment to providing access like we think of Kaiser mm-hmm.
Sort of nonprofit doing.
Mm-hmm.
You treating all, all patients in their geography.
Um.
That's sort of how I took it, that they're kinda reaffirming that they're not just focused on, um, highly attractive, um, segments of the population.
Right.
And then redesigning our cost structure.
So that, to me feels like what all health systems will have to do over the course of the next 10 years.
Yes, that's right.
And and redesign is not like incremental.
No.
It's like that word is not an incremental word.
Right?
Yeah.
And so I think that, I mean, my interpretation, I don't think either one of us know Greg Adams, but interpretation is that he's saying that enhancing quality service and access is gonna be done through redesigning their cost structure completely.
So they maybe, for instance, they might use technology more effectively, um, or differently.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, and then as they lead the shift towards value-based care.
Uh, that prioritizes affordability and improved patient outcomes.
So, I mean, I think they continue to feel that they are the national leader in that space.
And I, I think that's right, especially in terms of the RISE initiative.
Yeah, I think that's right.
I think that's right.
I mean, this is, that is the model that Payvider model clearly is, is the future model.
Clearly there's a lot of redesign that has to get to get there for, for as long as I've been doing this with you.
This is year 11.
Yeah.
Kaiser's been the model.
Yeah.
W why can't anyone replicate it?
Like, is it something core to their culture?
Uh, you think.
That's differentiate.
I, I've heard people say that, especially in California now.
Now there there's other things in terms of the makeup of, of, uh, their ability to own hospitals in California in a way they can't do in other markets where they just have more of the clinics and the physician groups, but they don't have the hospital.
So they, they can't deliver the same kind of results, the same margins, same kind of quality of, uh, care continuity.
Um, so maybe it's like just the setup in that geography is, is that part of it from, from your perspective?
I think it's part of it, but I think that, um, taking on risk and, and the, the payer side of the payvider model is pretty difficult and I think it's hard for health systems to turn that on and be successful.
Yeah.
Without a lot of investment in.
Technology and data and underwriting and risk and people, that's the people who know how to do it and talent.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And Kaiser has been doing it for a long time.
Yeah.
But they bring the, um, the ethos of kind of like, it's a, I think of it as a physician led culture, even though they have the whole payer side.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so that, that combination is hard to put together right.
There.
There are great health systems here in Nashville and around the country that haven't really built up the underwriting mm-hmm.
Strength.
Mm-hmm.
Or the, or the data even to underwrite really.
Mm-hmm.
And there are small examples of other providers, but they don't maybe have the scale or they don't have that culture of, of physician led.
So, I don't know.
I think it's, yes, we've been talking about it as the model.
For 11 years.
But it's hard to get, not everybody can execute it though.
It's hard.
It's hard to get there.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Not everybody can execute it.
Oma grows revenue membership in public earnings debut.
Drivers of revenue growth include more customers using multiple chronic condition programs, as well as strong adoption of GLP one offerings.
Uh, some impressive numbers here.
The firm reported revenue of 61.4 million in the second quarter, increasing 49% year over year.
That's, that's really, really strong.
Uh, they, they did, they did, uh, recognize a loss and net loss of 5.3 million in the period compared, but again, they cut that in half.
Last year it was, uh, 10.7 million.
Mm-hmm.
So clearly they're moving towards starting to gen, uh, generate some ebitda, uh, and then also their, their, uh, membership numbers.
Are sort of right on par with those revenue numbers.
So the firm had 752,000 members in the second quarter up 52% year over year.
So they're, they're growing really well.
And this is, you know, um, at the dawn of some of their big partnerships, like the partnership they have with Amazon now, right?
Yeah.
I mean, I, I think you would expect the first earnings release post IPO to be, and they should have had that pretty well teed up before they went public.
Right.
And yet 50% growth in membership is pretty impressive no matter who you are.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I think it's good.
End of pharma Eli Lilly shares slide as a weight loss pill results, dent, enthusiasm.
This to me felt like one of those irrational Wall Street expectations.
Um, why you Yeah.
Well I wanted to return it, return to, 'cause Emily and I talked about it last week.
Okay.
And I was impressed with the pill results.
I don't think I expected the weight loss to equal the shot.
It's a lot easier form factor, a lot bigger market.
Did they want, did they want the, the pill to outdo the shot?
I don't know.
So we were talking about it as a success and then the stock tanked.
And so I wanted to come back to it and just mention it.
I think Lilly's performing well mean it, yes.
Maybe it didn't perform, the pill didn't perform, like people had it.
They, I mean, they were protected.
They were predicting 13 to 15% and they hit 12.
To me, it, that's, I don't think that even matters.
That's just silly.
And, and, and, and the shares took a 14% hit for that.
Yeah.
That is so like, I don't understand how, how do you tie that one to 3%, you know, miss on the body weight loss to like a 14% haircut on the value of the company.
Like, like that, that, those are the kind of things where I'm just like, this doesn't make any sense.
I don I don't, I don't get it.
I mean, I think that, uh, I mean for me.
I am not on a GLP one.
I don't really need to lose a lot of weight.
Yeah.
When the pill comes out.
When the pill goes, I'm gonna take, yeah.
Right.
And so I think the, uh, the market like share or the market opportunity is large, and I don't care if I am gonna lose 12% or 13%.
I mean, it's a pill.
I don't even wanna lose 12%.
I mean, I'm looking to lose like 10 pounds on 180.
I don't know what that is, but it's, there's such a massive difference between a shot that you have to self-administer and just throwing one more pill in there with your multivitamin right.
In and your, you know.
Yeah.
Like, it's just, it's, it's a, yeah, I agree.
And anyway, anyway, to, to me, I was just expecting like, it's like either it's remotely close or it's not close at all.
Like if it's not close at all, it didn't lose weight at all, then okay, fine.
That would, yeah.
Yeah.
But right.
Yeah.
Seems, seems, uh, seems like an overreaction and probably an overreaction that will get worked out in the coming week.
Yeah, yeah.
Probably.
It probably was the buy opportunity for a week and then it will come back and then it'll come back.
Yeah.
Uh, bear and Kumquat Biosciences team up on a new potential cancer drug.
Uh, it's a $1.3 billion, uh, royalty deal.
And I think, you know, the good news here is that bear needs better oncology, you know, portfolio.
So, yeah.
And this isano there's, there's a new structure that is, is, we've recovered it before, is merging.
We, they're not acquiring these businesses, but are kind of licensing.
They typically, I think if it's a billion to 2 billion, it seems like it's trending more toward licensing deals now.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Instead of acquisition instead of portfolio.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, okay.
Going into Web3 and crypto Bitcoin market cap source past Google's after hitting all time high.
This was six hours ago, but this week, uh, Bitcoin and Ether have hit all time highs and really Ether has had a tremendous run over the course of the last few weeks.
Yeah.
Is probably up 30% in the last month, so Yeah.
Yeah.
Mostly 'cause it was oversold and devalued for too long, just based on leadership.
Right.
It was the Ethereum Foundation and yeah.
Some other things like that.
But now that Trump is in, and also I think now that the Genius Act was approved and people are, have sort of done the math in their head and they've realized the majority of stable coins are gonna traffic on On E.
On E.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
I, I think it is, um, it's good to see the.
Like the market attention filter down from Bitcoin and Bitcoin's always gonna, it's always the biggest one.
It's the original one.
Sure.
It's the one that my mother knows.
But, but it's good to see, like it's beginning to flow through to the, to e and to other, the, the, all the all coins.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Crypto Farm Circle, post loss and first earnings report after IPO.
So it seems like the high, like people now kind of understand the stable coin business.
Mm-hmm.
They understand that it's not that defensible.
Um, many others are going to enter it for sure.
Yeah.
Uh, it, it's not in this article, but circle recently, uh.
This week, I think launched, uh, their own L one network.
Mm-hmm.
And so the, the circle share price has, uh, corrected quite a bit.
So tremendous.
IPO Right.
You know, entered in just, just around $80 went up to north of $250.
Now it's back down below $150.
And so the, the market's trying to understand this, this new type of business's never had to mm-hmm.
Um, do real analysis on before.
So it's, it's, to me, I just see this as Wall Street is, is learning how crypto works.
Yeah, I think that's right.
It, it's a great business model, but it's not, it's, there's not a lot of moat to it.
No.
So, and um, circle for a while was positioning themselves as the US stable coin darling, but there's gonna be a hundred banks and Walmart and Amazon and people with their own stable coin.
Yes.
So they'll get their share of market, but.
But yeah, people are trying to figure out, well, what is that share gonna be?
Yeah.
Is it, is it 10% or is it 40%?
I don't, I don't know.
And for the listeners who have no idea what it means when I say Circle is launching their own L one, uh, in the crypto world, you know, you have these different chains.
Bitcoin, it's a token, but it's also a chain.
It's also its own network.
Ethereum is a token, but it's also a, a network.
Um, and, and an L one means you are the foundational network for e everything that happens, you actually can have networks running on top of networks.
Right?
Right.
So you can, you can actually have like, uh, the way, maybe you might think about it as, you know, there's the internet and then there's different protocols that run on the internet.
So like, you know, your web browser, that's one protocol mm-hmm.
That runs on the internet.
Um, you know, email is a separate protocol, right.
That runs on, on the internet, but they both run on.
The internet.
Okay.
Right.
So an L one, you can kind of think about it like the L one is kind of the, the internet, right?
Yeah.
And I think one of the things I want to do is, is just weave in a little bit of education in the Web3 space as we go.
So the layer one, the L one, it really is keeping track of transactions in a way that is safe and authenticated and, and prevents fraud.
Yes.
Yes, yes.
That's the basic function of the L one.
Yes.
It's, it, it's, it's the, it's the security layer.
Yes.
Right.
And so there's different ways to authenticate or make sure that when I send you money, I can't then send it to someone else.
Yeah.
That's the basic thing.
Like, can we make sure that when Vic send market the money, then Marcus has the money and I can't respend it.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So in that, in that respect, it's security and, and it's also settlement.
Yes.
Like, it, it, it finalizes the transactions.
Yeah.
And there.
There's a trade off between sort of cost and security and a whole bunch of different L ones that we don't think now and adoption now about how, how you would go about that.
Yeah.
Right.
And adoption.
Right.
And so, so circle the Bitcoin and ETH both are probably the two most, they're the two biggest market cap L ones.
Yes, for sure.
And uh, and, and many, many other organizations, so for example, Coinbase and Robinhood, right?
Two big exchanges and where you can go buy all your crypto, they each have their own L two, right?
They each have their own layer two, where you can do all sorts of things in the Coinbase universe on that network, but it's settles and it's secured by Ethereum as the L one.
Same with Robinhood, right?
Right.
They have their own little L two network, but everything is secured.
And settled on the Ethereum network.
So circle launching an L one is like fundamentally competitive with Bitcoin and Ethereum.
I don't think they actually are setting out to do that.
I think they're probably gonna go do business to business deals and maybe compete with, you know, the SWIFT network or compete with the Visa and MasterCard networks and, and try to figure out some way to like get into the business to business merchant world.
If I, if I had to guess like, why would they launch their own L one?
It's probably something more like that.
Um, maybe, maybe you get some, some price breaks or some benefit for using their stable coins on their L one versus using it on other L ones.
Yeah, it can create a moat or, or switching costs.
Yeah.
Yes.
If depending on how they structure it, depend on how they tructure.
It also is hard to do, so it's super hard to do.
The reason is super hard to do.
There are no.
Competitive barriers in stable coins is you can turn them on quickly and Right.
They're easy because they're using another L one to settle.
Right.
And when they do their own L one, people like me are gonna want to know, well how, how are you, how are you securing that?
Yes.
And I may be excited about it.
I may not trust it.
Right.
I know I trust Ethereum.
So I think there's, that's one potential reason is it would if they do it right, it and it was really secure and inexpensive.
Like Salona for instance, was, or L one that was created because it was less expensive and faster.
Faster than Ethereum.
Yes.
And that has some use cases.
Yes.
Bullish stock stores and latest tests for IPO markets.
So bullish is another crypto exchange and I classic crypto name.
Yeah.
You, you and I didn't even know about it, uh, up until this, this IPO and it's got like $3 billion in volume on it.
Yeah.
So that just shows you like how unevenly distributed the future is.
Right.
I mean, we're, we're, I think, I feel like we're pretty on top of stuff.
Yeah.
Yes.
And we didn't know about like a massive exchange that's now publicly traded until it iPod.
Yeah.
That it's ridiculous.
That's right.
I think it's also true that there's a, there's just a lot of wealth and money that is trying to find a way, way to access crypto in various, through various means.
I mean, I think strategy and the Bitcoin treasury things and the ETH treasury are a flavor of that.
And then this IPO.
That's part of the reason it did so well is there's not that there's not that many pure play crypto things to buy.
Yeah.
Uh, I just, for people who continue to think like this crypto thing is like this weird, crazy thing that the tech bros are doing.
The, uh, bullish is led by the former president of the New York Stock Exchange.
Mm-hmm.
A guy named Tom Farley is the CEO of this company Y'all.
So like Yeah.
This, this is not like a toy, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
And it's not, not going back.
We're talking going back.
No, we're talking about it because this is the future of finance.
Right?
Right.
We're, we're trying to make sure our listeners understand this is the actual future of finance people.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, we've been following it for, I don't know, for eight years.
We didn't bring it to the podcast until Yeah.
Eight, eight weeks ago.
Yes, exactly.
Exactly.
Coinbase, uh, this is a post from X.
Soon you'll have access to millions of base assets on Coinbase with Dex trading.
Uh, base assets base is Coinbase is L two network.
Right.
So that's, that's their, their own network that they run.
They are way ahead of pretty much every other L two at this point.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so many different assets that are, are on base.
It's incredible.
It's become really a very friendly, um, uh, network for creators.
Right.
And so one thing, like if you, trying to kind of think about how might this impact the future, uh, it's possible that a lot of the creators who are on YouTube and on x and on these different social networks where, uh, you know, they, they get paid out like ad payments, but they don't have any ownership of anything.
You could see.
A YouTube launching on base where there's shared true shared profits and, and retained ownership of your intellectual property that you, um, put on the network as a creator.
So that, that to me feels like that's a, that's a great, uh, yeah, you know, that's a great step forward.
Uh, and so, uh, Coinbase is now launching a decentralized exchange where you'll be able to trade all these different creator assets.
And right now it's, it's, it's small in so far as like it's nowhere near Mr.
Beast or any of those kinds of things.
But just watch this space.
Right?
Watch this space.
Yeah.
And we're gonna get, I think, um, I dunno if we be Mr. Bi, but one big creator will come and then it will start to, to Yes.
To evolve.
Yes.
And, and they'll come because the financial assets, yes.
It's good for them.
Well, they'll come for two reasons.
One, the financial upside is significant, and two, their brand will be strong enough that they can actually onboard people to these.
Crypto networks.
Right?
Right.
Like they'll be able to say, come follow, download this app and get my special thing on base.
Right.
And that will drive more and more adoption, right?
Yes.
Uh, okay.
Moving into ai, Oracle Health debuts, AI powered EHR, designed as a voice first solution embedded with a Gentech ai.
So this is the rebirth of Cerner.
It's finally here.
And, uh, of course it has, uh, ambient listening embedded.
Right.
So voice first.
I mean, that seems seems like a perfect tip of the spear feature to Yeah.
Define the new era.
Cer HR cer have that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We don't need a plugin 'cause we Right.
We're, we're coming outta the gates with that.
And, uh, look, this is great for the market.
Uh, Oracle is moving to Nashville.
They, they recognize they're behind Epic.
And so I think they're gonna be very partner friendly.
Yes, that's right.
And we had, uh, Sima Verma on six months ago Yeah.
Talking about this.
Yeah.
Um, and they've delivered.
Everything that they were talking about that they were gonna deliver now is live.
And I haven't actually got a demo of it, but I'm excited to check it out.
I think it's gonna be really healthy to have a, you know, someone to keep epic honest and push, push the market forward, which should we get?
Agree.
Uh, okay.
Two stories about state laws and ai.
Mm-hmm.
So Illinois bans the therapeutic use of AI without clinician input.
So there must be, uh, a clinician in the loop, basically.
Yeah.
No, no.
Autonomous AI coming up with, you know, diagnoses.
Yeah.
And, and I think I'm in favor of that, except that it's not well-defined, so, yeah.
Right.
Okay.
But like, what does that mean to have a human in the loop?
When is it enough and when is it not enough?
And then is Illinois gonna have a different rule than Michigan and different than Tennessee?
It seems like that's not gonna be functional.
No.
And, and you know, just the reality is that.
Illinois is, uh, you know, great state of Illinois, uh, has a governor who is one of the big enemies of, of Trump.
Yeah.
This will become a flashpoint.
David Sachs will use this as a perfect example of why we have to have federal laws for ai, because we can't have, um, I would say actually a combination probably of David Sachs and RFK Jr.
Will probably come together and say, this is exactly why we have to have federal legislation on ai because we can't have the states creating this patchwork where innovators don't know how to deploy.
Right.
You know, multi-state operators don't know how to create a model of care that's consistent, uh, and the differences that they, that they operate in.
And so this is like, to me, this is, you're, you're, you're feeding the beast here, right?
You're feeding the beast with this.
Yes.
That.
And so they walked into that.
Trap maybe, but Yes.
But it, it, it was very predictable.
Yes.
Uh, Pennsylvania lawmakers seek to regulate AI in healthcare.
So this has not yet gone across the line.
Um, but it just shows the states are not waiting.
They're not waiting.
No.
And shapiro's the same.
Yeah.
I mean, another democratic pretty strong governor.
Mm-hmm.
And he's, he's wanting to begin to have a voice.
They both wanna have a voice of what, how AI should be regulated.
Yep.
And that's sort of the American system to test things at the state level.
But AI is moving very quickly, so it's gonna have to be considered, but then we're gonna need a, a federal law.
I mean, to me, so I just think about the political timing of this.
Right.
So to me, we have another legislative session that won't occur before the midterm.
Right.
Yeah.
And I think that this just feeds the, um.
This, this feeds the prioritization of the Trump administration to mm-hmm.
Push into that next big legislative push, federal legislation for AI and healthcare.
That, that's, that's basically what, what I would expect.
Yeah.
I mean, there'll be a push whether they can get it, anything approved or voted through Congress is a question.
But yes, they'll be, I think they'll be working on it.
They're shooting the lights out right now.
Yes, yes.
They're shooting the lights out right now.
That, that's why I said before the midterm.
Yeah.
Well, but you have to, if it's not a budget reconciliation, they gotta get to 60, which is a different.
But maybe they can do it.
Yeah.
Open AI's, Rocky GPT five rollout shows struggle to remain undisputed AI leaders.
So two big things here.
One, uh, I mean, I, I watch it, it really, it, it's not just that the, that GPT five was underwhelming in so far as, like, it was not the step change that four was to three.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
So there's that part right there.
There's the part where we're, we're, we're starting to feel like we're maxing out what the LLMs are able to do.
Mm-hmm.
Which I, for one welcome, because none of us have integrated these damn things right into our workflow yet.
So I guess I know people, yeah.
The capabilities are way more than we can use today.
Correct.
Like, we need, we need a breather to like actually figure out how to integrate these things from a business perspective.
But, um, the, the other thing was, uh, that it was just a bad, like, like, it, it was a bad attempt at doing what Apple does so incredibly well.
I mean, I, I watched it and it was painful.
There, there was, it was, it was just bad.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It, um, I mean, Steve Jobs is, is an unfair comparison, right.
But, but unfortunately that's, that's the bar that, that someone like Sam Altman is held to, has that for himself.
Yes.
Right.
He, he, he, he is the leader of the, of the company with the fastest growing product in the history of the world.
Right.
Right.
So, and they, they spent a long time talking about healthcare topics, um, which shows how important, you know, the market that we're all in is to society and is to open ai.
But it was, um, it was underwhelming.
It wasn't, wasn't very impressive.
Yeah.
Um, you know, and then they also took away all the other models and.
What people were really upset with over the weekend.
Oh yeah.
They took away the four models and Yeah.
And five is fundamentally different.
Yeah.
And people had relationships with, people had all of these and it behaves differently.
Relationships and business things.
And in, you know, in one day they took it all away.
So they've returned, now they've returned them all.
Well, it was stupid to not anticipate that.
Yes.
That was, they, they, they won't do that again.
Right.
Right.
They won't do that again.
Right.
Alright.
David Sachs on x basically taking a victory lap for what he And you and I have listened to AI to all in for a long time.
Yeah.
So we, we have to admit this has been his point for a long time.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, before he was even on the Trump train, he was saying that we don't know yet how the AI thing is going to play out.
Right.
And it really is, it's good that you put this right after the open ai mm-hmm.
Story.
Right.
Um, basically he's saying, look, the, the LMS are all becoming commodities.
And they're gonna be deployed to everybody.
We're gonna have a mix of open source and closed source, and now it's a race to figure out how we all implement them in our businesses and, and how different people embed them in their software.
And it's gonna be great UI and great product that's gonna win.
And it's kind of just a step change up for all, you know, for the, for the entire technology ecosystem.
Um, and it's not, and it's not a GI yet, and, and in fact, in fact maybe LLMs are not at all going to be how we get to a GI, like there may have to be a whole nother step change before we get to a GI out of the LLM model, right?
Yeah, I think that's right.
So I think there are two important points.
One is that there's multiple companies that are all competitive and, and that's what you mentioned.
And then secondly that they're beginning to have, um, specialties.
Like I think Anthropic is probably best known for its coding strength.
Google Gemini is probably the, one of the better video things with their VO thing and OpenAI chat.
GPT is sort of the, the market leader as far as size, scale, probably the brand is best and that's healthy to have different, different little niches that, you know, it'll change over time.
But I think probably good.
Yeah.
So, uh, Elon comments on it, mark Benioff comments on it.
So it's a, it's an interesting thread.
Link will be in the show notes.
Yeah.
If you wanna sort of see the discussion and see the details of the case that, that Davis ax is making.
Um, but I, I think certainly yeah, as we think about nationwide regulation, this perspective, you know, is gonna be the Trump perspective.
Absolutely.
And it's, it's pretty much a hands off reasonable safety controls, but not too much control after that.
I think.
Yes.
Agree.
Wall Street Journal, I feel like I'm going crazy Chat.
GPT fuels Delusional Spiral.
So more and more of these stories of people that are in what I would call Ill-advised manner, getting into relationships with this technology, right?
That is what it is.
Getting into relationships with this technology because the technology performs and engages with us at the level of voice, right?
Or at the level of, you know, texting conversations very similar, but it is not a human, you know, and it's gonna do whatever its, programmers kind of tune it and train it to do, and oftentimes it's chantic, right?
Oftentimes it's encouraging things that, you know, you wouldn't want a human to encourage another human to do.
Right, right.
And it's unmonitored.
Yeah.
I mean, it is, it's very much like social media.
It's designed to maximize engagement and time.
Using the model.
And the best way to do that is to be a Sticka fan and say, how brilliant my idea to travel faster than light is.
And no one has ever thought of that, and I'm gonna be famous.
And then it, it's sort of a, you know, you get this iterative process where it, it gives the person a few other ideas that are, you know, plausible maybe, but don't actually stand up to scientific rigor.
And so there's stories in here with people inventing new physics and they're talking all night about how they're gonna do this.
And it will be wonderful for humanity.
And they'll be famous and win the Nobel Prize and it's not real.
And unfortunately they stay up all night talking to chat GPT, and then it doesn't come to anything.
And a lot of these chats are public, which is crazy.
So then the people allow it to be publicly searchable.
So the Wall Street Journal, what they did is they went through a public, public records, and you can see the long involved discussions about inventing new, new fields of science.
Uh, yeah, man, I, I just, it's just a cautionary tear.
I mean, I think one has to remember that this tool is designed to.
To make you feel good emotionally.
Yes.
And to ask the next question.
Yes.
That's all it's designed to do.
Yes, that's right.
I feel like as a PSA, uh, for our listeners, I wanna let you know that there is a, um, there is, there's an app called Llama, O-L-L-A-M-A, like, like llama with an O at the, at the beginning.
This is an open source free tool you can install.
I think they have a first free phone now, but you can definitely install it on your laptop.
Uh, and it will download the open source LLMs, the, the most popular ones.
Yeah.
The three big most popular ones are, are Llama, um, deep Seek, and then also now, um, chat GPTs, uh, yeah.
Their OSS, yeah.
Yeah.
Their OSS model.
And it'll give you like a desktop app.
You can talk to an LLM that's high quality.
Mm-hmm.
But it's local to your machine.
Yeah.
It's not on the internet.
It's not feeding information back into the cloud.
Uh, and now that chat, GPT has an open source model, like you can chat with a chat GPT model that is not connected to a server that Sam Altman does not have access to your information.
Okay.
Where the New York Times can't find your, your stuff.
So I just wanted, like, I wouldn't have really put that out there before the chat GPT open source model was out there.
But now that that's out there for people who just feel like they wanna talk to a chat GPT like model, you can do it for free.
For free.
And your laptop doesn't even have to be that big.
No, it's not.
It's a regular laptop.
No, no, no, no.
So, so yeah, like if, if you're just creeped out by the cloud nature of this, which is something that I am like, I mean, I talk to Gemini because it's for for work stuff, but this is what I use when I'm like, when I want to engage with Chad GPT locally, now I'm using Llama.
So I just as a PSA, like just check it out.
Yeah, it's free.
It's free too.
You know, that's also nice on TechCrunch ai companion apps on track to pull in 120 million.
In 2025.
Yeah.
So the next step is to sell people, not just how smart you are, but also companionship.
Yeah.
Or I wanna say dating like services, but it's a computer, so it's not really dating.
No, dude.
People are marrying these things now.
Like, are you kidding me?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So like, no, just say the words dating.
It is, it's a. Romantic relationship with a, with a computer code.
But people are, people are really getting involved with it.
Yeah, people are doing it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's the movie her, but it's, it's real.
It's actually and happening and like, it's not just real, it's happening a lot.
Yeah.
Like $120 million.
There's people doing it for on free apps.
Yeah.
This is just a marker of how many people are willing to pay for these, like That's right.
Tuned up models and not just, you know, there's already people that are in, that are having their marriages broken up over relationships with chat GPT.
Right.
But for that, but if that's not good enough for you, you can pay for one of these companion apps tuned up, you know, that's got the visuals plugged in there.
Right.
Et cetera, et cetera.
Yes.
So, no, no, no.
It's, it's, it's happening at scale.
It's not like a case here and a case there.
Right.
And.
I mean, I have boys.
You have boys, people get very concerned about pornography with.
Sure.
And, and that's old now.
And and this is like supercharged pornography.
Yes, yes.
Uh, because the, the pornographic entity is interacting with you and talking to you, and there's a relationship ish built there.
But it is, it's gonna make people more lonely in the end.
It's gonna, it's, it's gonna make you disconnected from society.
Of course.
And be really bad, but at the same time, I don't know how to stop it.
So it's gonna, it's gonna happen.
Yep.
It's gonna happen.
Alright.
Final story.
Uh, New York Times, this story has made, made the rounds.
So, uh, I'm, I'm really happy that New York Times did this story mm-hmm.
Because they have the kind of platform that can get the word out about this.
Right.
The headline.
Goodbye.
$165,000 tech jobs, student coders seek work at Chipotle.
Um.
It's, it's both kind of covering the layoffs that are happening across all the big tech companies and, and the elimination of the entry level jobs for fresh grads.
Uh, and also a profile of a, of a young woman, recent grad who is literally hoping that she gets hired at Chipotle.
So to me there's like, there's two levels to this, right?
Mm-hmm.
One, these jobs are being eliminated and it is the degradation of, you know, everybody learning the code.
Remember that?
Yeah.
I mean, 15 years ago, that was maybe the hottest thing.
All these coding academies and dude, I'm here my entire life is the way that it is, because I taught myself how to code.
Yeah.
25 years ago.
Yes.
And then you moved into leadership and into investing.
Yes.
And.
Your boys are not gonna build the same life by learning how to code.
No.
I mean that's just, it's just not an opportunity anymore.
No.
That has been automated away.
Yes.
Just like you can't, I don't know, make t-shirts in America anymore.
Like the, there's certain things that automation has taken away and they're no longer viable careers.
Yes.
Then the second aspect is you have these highly qualified people are now fighting for jobs at Chipotle.
Yeah.
Just 'cause there's no entry level jobs.
So it's, it's, I mean, can you blame Mom, mom, Donny?
No.
And it's not gonna be just him.
I mean, it's gonna be nationwide.
No, no.
I mean this, it's like if this is what's happening and people can't.
Accept the gravity of this.
Right.
You know, then, then, I don't know, I, I, you know, I don't know what to say.
I don't know what to say.
Like, it's, it, it just shows the denial is a, is a river, you know, like, like we, we will, and, and this talk that I did hero on this week, you know, it's, it's just like a board meeting, right.
The forcing function of having to present something.
It will, it will illuminate things to you that like, you know, but like, you're like, holy cow.
Like, wow, like, you know?
Yeah.
When you have to produce a chart.
So, uh, I, I was looking at an all time chart for Bitcoin and the chart that I got, like, it's ridiculous, right?
It's, it's not even a hockey stick.
It's like.
It's just, there's very little white space on it because it's just all value creation, right?
Yeah.
But the craziest thing about this chart is the yxi, in order to make the chart reasonable to c the yxi has to, like, every number is a double, right.
So it starts from $0.
Right.
Okay.
So, so half a cent starts from half a cent Yep.
To a hundred k. Yeah.
Right.
Doubling in 15 years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and the chart in order to be able to Yeah.
Fit it, show it in order to fit it, it's gotta scale by doubling that number.
Right.
And still, when you look at it, and still it's not a straight line, it's an exponential axis, and you're still going up.
It's ridiculous.
Yeah.
The curve is ridiculous.
And with all of that, and, and we're talking about over, you know, 15 years.
Yeah.
Right.
The, the, you know, the chart span's 15 years.
And even with all that, you still have people referring to it as like this risky, speculative thing.
Right?
Right.
Denial is a, is a rover, dude.
You know what I mean?
Like, like it, it just gets to a point where people refuse to accept that change is the only real thing, you know?
And just because you knew something does not make it an immutable law of the universe.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
And I think that it's, um, the difficult thing is that what should we tell?
Like what should I tell my boys?
I mean, the 2018, the truth, the truth, the truth.
The, the American dream of getting an education work hard, which is both of our stories.
We didn't, neither one of us came from like wealthy families, but we worked hard and educated ourselves and kind of were able to.
Build a life that is not the same as it was when we were coming up.
And there's nothing that's replaced it really.
Entrepreneurship.
Entrepreneurship and, and, and, and a very, very, very low cost of launching a company.
Ha.
That has actually replaced it, but you're on your own.
So, yeah.
So in, in terms of like, what hasn't replaced it, what hasn't replaced it is a system that will take care of you.
Yeah.
Th there, there, like you're on your own, but the tools that you have to do it on your own tool, it's a lot more tools.
Yeah.
You never had as many tools, not, not even remotely close.
Right.
Like, like this phone now mm-hmm.
Is, you know, can literally make a hundred million dollars on this with a phone.
Yeah.
So, so, so what you should do and, and what I'm, what I'm trying to do, it's like we should teach our children entrepreneurship.
Mm-hmm.
I will sign two copies of my book and give them to your voice.
Right.
Yeah.
Uh.
And we should get them hooked up with Llama, which is free.
Right.
You know, and teach 'em to build some stuff and then give 'em a bunch of credits to, to the LLMs and tell 'em, you know, sign up on all the social networks and turn on, you know, the creator accounts.
Yeah.
And, and you gotta build something and you build something.
You gotta build something that people want.
You gotta build something.
Yeah.
You gotta build something.
That's literally what we should tell them, you know, and in the meantime, like, go get whatever super low earning job you can and live within your means and mm-hmm.
Roommate with your friends and pick good friends and get in a relationship so you're not going out, you know, on a million first dates.
Yeah.
Um, you know, like Yeah, th there is going.
Yeah.
But you have to build it yourself like an entrepreneur.
Yes.
Um, learning to code or going to this college or whatever.
Going to Wall Street, those jobs, those pathways are all changed now.
Yes, absolutely.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
But like, look, the truth is they don't need, I mean, look, I sent my boys to college.
You're sending your boys to college, but like, they need to grow out, but they don't need the degree.
They don't need the degree.
And like, I don't know, like the kids who are 10 years younger than your boys, they might, they really just probably don't need to go to college.
Yes.
Right.
They probably just don't need to go to college.
Right.
Yeah.
They probably just need to, you know, they can save that time, they can travel, you know, flights are cheap, you know what I mean?
Right, right.
Travel, go see the world.
Go learn a language.
Yeah.
You know, go realize that like the way we do things in America is not the way they do things everywhere else in the world.
Um, learn ai, learn entrepreneurship, learn how to create value, build some stuff like the university thing.
I. That we did, it is kind of packaged several benefits all in one.
Yeah.
It was like going off and living on your own and learning how to like, feed yourself.
Yeah.
And get clean clothes and exist.
Yeah.
Then you had to learn some skills.
Yes.
And the ability to talk to other people and think for yourself.
And I think writing is still valuable to figure out what you actually very valuable say.
Like you very valuable.
Like you put together a talk.
You have to like actually figure out what am I gonna say?
Yes.
And how do I express myself?
Yes.
Yes.
Um, but you can do that on your own Now you don't need a college degree to do that.
That's right.
It just is more work.
You have to, you have to assemble it, um, yourself.
I mean, but it's a lot cheaper.
But I was, I was You don't need to spend $80,000.
Yeah.
No, but it's really not more work.
All of the top universities have all their courses for free on Coursera or YouTube.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, you see what I'm saying?
Like, it's just what, what it, what is more work is.
Yeah.
But that's so like there's not, you have to go find.
Somewhere to live and, you know, all this stuff that's, that's paint by numbers with the college you show up there, they have a dining hall, they have the, all this stuff that you have to put that together yourself.
Yeah.
But you go in debt.
Yes.
And, and, and you save a lot of money and you do it at the exclusion of the entire rest of the world.
Right?
Yeah.
I mean, if you spent the amount of money you spent in college, you could travel all over the place and live well, or you could invest it.
Yeah.
Right.
Or yeah.
A combination.
Or could invest it and literally retire in like 15 years.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Like, yeah, that's right.
I think the, uh, the, the kids that are five today, I think almost have it easier than the, the kids that are 15 to 20.
Yes.
It's like, yes, there's not, we're in transition, there aren't examples to follow.
Right.
Now we're, we're in the transition.
Yes.
Right.
And, and, and I guess that's why I'm saying like.
Could you spend this time crying and bemoaning the loss of what was You could, but it is in vain.
Yeah.
It's not gonna help it is it literally in vain, because you can, nothing stops this train.
That's right.
Right.
So that, that I want my boys to be okay.
Mm-hmm.
I want them to fig, you know?
Yeah.
And then, and then, and then, you know, quite frankly, the other thing we have to do.
So, you know, I, I, I've had some pretty hard conversations with my parents recently about like how, you know, and we, and we got to the other side.
Now all the conversations are good, right?
Yeah.
But we had to have some hard, hard conversations about like, how, how are we gonna really handle this?
Like.
This stage, right?
Yeah.
Like, like independent living, assisted living.
Are you gonna be in the house?
You not mm-hmm.
Like, like really, really tough conversations.
Yeah.
There's loss of independence.
Yes.
All kinds of stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so we decided we're gonna go for it and try to keep them in the house all the way, like Yeah.
And, and I'm, I'm fine with that.
Like, you know, because you gotta make some adjustments to the care.
You gotta mm-hmm.
You gotta figure out some things.
Right.
But in that process, you know, I was having conversations with my parents and my dad said to me, and this was a really healing because I knew it, but it was nice to hear him say it, you know, he said to me that, um, you know, Stu, what you're doing, nobody taught you, because we didn't have to do this for our parents.
Right.
Like, you know mm-hmm.
You're, you're the first generation that is having to do for us.
Yeah.
What you're having to do.
And so you're learning it.
This happens, you know, it happens where over time as generations go, like, you know, we create.
Things.
We create innovation, we create, you know?
Yeah.
Abundance.
We create these things and like, okay, now the parents are living really long, you know?
Yeah.
But like, they're living really long, but they're not well.
Right.
You know?
Right.
Hopefully when we, when we get to that age, we have not just lifespan, but healthspan.
Yeah.
Right.
Right.
You know, that's what, that's what we're gonna try to work on as well as financial independence so that our kids are not burdened with the caretaking, but that, well, we can only even know that.
Yeah.
But our parents have lifespan, but they're not gonna be healthy all the time.
They don't have health span.
Right.
They don't have health span.
'cause they were in Medicine 2.0, not 3.0.
Right.
So, so it's just like every generation has their thing.
Yeah.
You know, and this is just what our kids, yeah.
Yeah.
There's no, it's not good or bad, it just is.
It just is.
Yeah.
It just is.
So like I, they're old enough that my boys are 26 and 24.
Mm-hmm.
They're old enough for me to just be like, listen.
Right, right.
You know what I mean?
You know, first of all, you guys are so lucky that I'm your dad.
You know what I mean?
Because like at least I can like.
Explain to you Right.
What the hell is going on?
You know, how many parents can't even like explain to their kids what's going on right now.
So if I can do it, I should do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's my view.
Yeah.
I think that's, I think that's right.
And they'll figure it out.
I mean, every generation figures it out, but it's, it's gonna be a process.
Yeah.
Alright.
So, alright.
Good show.
Next week we will be in our new office.
Yeah.
Not just gonna matter to any of you who are listening.
Yeah.
But if you watch, I think the backgrounds and things will be, will be different.
Yeah.
We're, we're just moving up the street to the new, uh, industrious over in, uh, Nashville Yards.
Yeah.
Which we're pretty excited about.
Brand new digs.
Yeah.
Be fun, new, have the new studio.
Yeah.
All right, man.
Until next week.