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Continuing our discussion on suite design, in this installment of The Offset Podcast Joey & Robbie get into more detail about gear you might want to consider having in a color/postproduction suite including: input devices, control surfaces, Streamdecks, foot pedals, aux monitors, 3D printing your own stuff, the amazing usefulness of VHB tape and a whole lot more! Looking for a deep dive on reference & client monitors? We'll cover that deep topic in a future episode.
Creators & Guests
Host
Host
Editor
Stella Yrigoyen
Stella Yrigoyen is an Austin, TX-based video editor specializing in documentary filmmaking. With a B.S. in Radio-Television-Film from UT Austin and over 7 years of editing experience, Stella possesses an in-depth understanding of the post-production pipeline. In the past year, she worked on Austin PBS series like 'Taco Mafia' and 'Chasing the Tide,' served as a Production Assistant on 'Austin City Limits,' and contributed to various post-production roles on other creatively and technically demanding projects.
What is The Offset Podcast?
The Offset Podcast is a semi-monthly (twice a month) podcast hosted by postproduction industry stalwarts Robbie Carman & Joey D’Anna - we’re professional colorists, educators, and polymaths in video postproduction and color. We’ve been told our detailed, informative, and easy-to-follow explanations of even the most technical subjects have helped people at all levels to improve their workflows, tackle their technical/creative problems, and even improve their approaches to business & client communication.
Geared towards postproduction industry professionals each episode feels like catching up with valued peers and is the perfect length for the average commute, lunch break, or to keep you company while you work.
01:00:00:00 - 01:00:15:01
Robbie
Hey there! In this installment of the offset podcast, we're picking up where we left off last time, talking about rooms, set up, and equipment that you might want to consider. Stay tuned.
01:00:15:03 - 01:00:33:13
Joey
This podcast is sponsored by Flanders Scientific leaders in color accurate display solutions for professional video. Whether you're a colorist, an editor, a DIT, or a broadcast engineer, Flanders Scientific has a professional display solution to meet your needs. Learn more at Flanders Scientific College.
01:00:33:15 - 01:00:38:08
Robbie
Hey guys, welcome back to another installment of the Offset podcast. I'm Robbie Carman.
01:00:38:10 - 01:00:39:12
Joey
And I'm Joey D’Anna
01:00:39:14 - 01:01:03:07
Robbie
Joey. this installment, I want to kind of pick up where we left off last time. And for those of you who might not have checked out that episode, we discussed, sort of the validity of having equipment in a machine room versus in room. And we talked about some general room considerations, including in some, you know, some setup concerns or, you know, some setup ideas for how you might want to position your desk relative to the client and so on.
01:01:03:09 - 01:01:36:04
Robbie
We talked a little bit about getting things from the machine room, you know, into the, into your suite, you know, cable wise, etc.. But today I want to take a look at, sort of what's on our desk. You know, the things that we need to have in the suite, to be fast and functional. And there's, a lot, you know, it's there's a reason why, you know, clients, when they come into the room, they kind of joke about, oh, I'm on the Starship Enterprise or something like that, you know, because it's like we do have a lot of input devices between control surfaces and tablets and stream decks and obviously monitors of
01:01:36:04 - 01:01:57:14
Robbie
every shape and variety. So I don't want to, you know, talk about, a million pieces of equipment, but I want to talk about some sort of the key sort of equipment categories, if you will, and some of the gear that we're using. So let's start off with talking about, some basic input devices. Right. everybody has always known that to mean the mouse.
01:01:57:16 - 01:02:19:11
Robbie
but, I know in having known you for a long time, I know that you are very anti mouse. You you proudly claim to a whoever will listen to you that you've not used a mouse in 20 years. And when you're forced to use one, you kind of have a mild panic attack. So tell us a little bit about, input devices, what you're using and pros and cons that.
01:02:19:13 - 01:02:51:13
Joey
It's true, I despise mice. The mouse is the worst input device ever made for directing a pointer on a screen. It is inaccurate, slow, uncomfortable, painful to use. Takes up way more space than it should because you're moving it all around. And it's horrible, I and I, and I'm not being hyperbolic when I say this. If you go into my office, I have three computers of work.
01:02:51:13 - 01:03:02:09
Joey
My main workstation is this station and a kind of secondary system that I use for conforme, and online work and stuff like that. there is not a mouse anywhere.
01:03:02:11 - 01:03:06:21
Robbie
Okay, so with your anti mouse attitude, what is the alternative for you?
01:03:06:23 - 01:03:12:04
Joey
Well that's that's the important thing right. Because I can't just control the computer with telepathy and.
01:03:12:06 - 01:03:13:01
Robbie
Not yet.
01:03:13:03 - 01:03:40:22
Joey
I use two main things, for very most general computing pointing. I use a Kensington trackball, which is a big kind of, you know, grating panel size trackball. The reason why I've always loved trackball is as opposed to mice is because muscle memory, trackball is always in the same place. You know, you never need to look at it, whereas a mouse, you're moving around the table, it's always in a different place than where you left it.
01:03:41:03 - 01:04:04:15
Joey
The trackball. I can just kind of grab and turn around and use without ever having to look at it. It's also much, much, much easier on your wrist because you're not doing as much kind of, I guess, repetitive motion with it. But the primary device I use, if I had to just pick one input device forever, is a digitizer tablet.
01:04:04:15 - 01:04:32:17
Joey
And those have come in all shapes and sizes and forms for a very long time. They started as tools for CAD. That's why they were called digitizer tablets, right? You would put a piece of paper under it and then trace it with the pen, essentially digitizing a two dimensional image. So I for many, many years use the Wacom branded tablets because they were kind of the only name in the game in terms of pen tablets for computers.
01:04:32:19 - 01:04:46:16
Joey
more recently, some of their patents have expired, and kind of the competitive world has brought in options that are super high quality. And I've moved all over to, Zen Lab brand tablets.
01:04:46:17 - 01:04:47:00
Robbie
Yep.
01:04:47:01 - 01:05:15:06
Joey
But they're all no matter what kind of tablet you use, they're all kind of the same general operating principle. The pen is wireless. It is powered by, emissions from the tablet. And you hover the pen above the tablet surface, and as you move it around, it does what's called an absolute boot positioning. So if I pick up the pen and hover it over the top left of the tablet, my mouse cursor goes to the top left of the screen.
01:05:15:11 - 01:05:39:09
Joey
If I pick up the pen, move it somewhere else, hovering above a different spot on the tablet, my cursor goes to that spot. If I pick it up and hover above that exact same spot where I started before in the top left, my pointer will be at the exact same spot to click, you press down the pen. This is where people usually lose their mind as they buy the tablet, and they start trying to just drag all across it, not realizing that now they're clicking and dragging everywhere on their screen.
01:05:39:11 - 01:06:11:17
Joey
You hover the pen and then you press down to click, and then there's auxiliary buttons on the top that you can use your index finger or your thumb, depending on how you hold the pen. To access things like right click, middle, click or any other macros that you use. Now this is really, really, really disconcerting if you've never used one before, the first time you do, you do this hover positioning thing where it's absolute, not relative, where, you know, a mouse, you move it to the side, the cursor moves, you pick up the mouse, move it to another place, move it to the side again, cursor just moves more, right?
01:06:11:17 - 01:06:30:14
Joey
It's relative positioning. No matter where you put the mouse on the desk, it doesn't matter. With the pen tablet you put that pin down, it goes exactly where you put it. And that's a beautiful thing once you get used to it. Because, you know, okay, the buttons I use the most in the UI, I can feel exactly where they are on the pen and it's just instantaneous.
01:06:30:16 - 01:06:41:22
Joey
It's never dragging something. Two you're not you're not bringing the cursor slowly to a UI element. You're just taking your pen, dropping it exactly where you want it on the screen. And it's instantaneous.
01:06:41:22 - 01:07:01:09
Robbie
Yeah. I mean, so like, listen, I, I am a convert to the pen tablet, thing, you know, probably not as long as you. But, you know, 6 or 7 years ago, whatever I had prior to that, I had been, in, you know, on the search for kind of the perfect ergonomic mouse. And then, to be fair, there are a lot of good.
01:07:01:10 - 01:07:05:23
Robbie
I know that you hate them, but there are a lot of good mice these days. You know, you can shake your head at me. It's fine.
01:07:06:00 - 01:07:09:05
Joey
There's a lot of good trash cans of Home Depot. They all just hold trash.
01:07:09:09 - 01:07:28:03
Robbie
I was a big fan of the Logitech MX Master Series, very ergonomic, lots of buttons, you know, without having to move your arm or your wrist. You could, you know, scroll left and right, scroll up and down. obviously variety picks up the mouse. Masters even had, touch gestures on the mice. And I know what you probably think about that, but whatever.
01:07:28:08 - 01:07:45:01
Robbie
There are some good mice. For me, the big reason that I ended up switching to a tablet was less to do with, you know, absolute positioning versus relative or this part of the screen or that part of the screen. It had to do with the fact that no matter what I did, I was developing carpal tunnel in my right hand, my, my dominant hand.
01:07:45:01 - 01:08:03:22
Robbie
Right. and I tried, you know, I tried those those fancy vertical mice, you know, that, you know, more. You hold it more like, like a pistol grip kind of thing. I tried the Logitech big ball that always just felt I maybe have short thumbs or something that just felt like I was doing more ligament damage to my thumb, trying to move that around.
01:08:04:00 - 01:08:23:17
Robbie
and so I switched over to the pen, you know, Wacom at the time and it did take a while. I felt like I was slower, almost like hesitant to click on things as I was afraid that I was going to, like, click and drag something somewhere. But, you know, after a week or so, like, I can't imagine not using my pen, you know, on anything.
01:08:23:17 - 01:08:45:12
Robbie
It's just the ergonomics of it are just great. and it's worth mentioning that, you know, a lot of these tablets, whether it's Wacom or Zen Labs or whatever, they're going to have, you know, different sizes, which you can match up to your desk and or your on screen real estate. one mistake. I see a lot of people using doing is they have, you know, really small, tablets but really high resolution screens.
01:08:45:12 - 01:09:04:02
Robbie
Right. And that can make it a little awkward. my general opinion on this is, you know, to if you have a large, high resolution screen, try to get to the one that's, you know, the biggest, most comfortable. I, I've never personally owned the real big large ones, you know. but the medium size generally for most of these companies seems to do the fit for me.
01:09:04:03 - 01:09:24:02
Robbie
right now I'm actually on a small one because it's my, you know, my little station here at home. I think it's great. I love them, I consider wonder. And I want to get your opinion on this because while we're on the subject, what's your opinion about the computer screen tablets versus the, the digitizer tablets? I'm thinking of, like, you know, the antique in that kind of style.
01:09:24:04 - 01:09:50:05
Joey
Yeah. So before I get deep into the the on screen tablets, I just want to mention 1 or 2 more things because again, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a tablet free guy. I love these things for sure. Robbie's absolutely right about the screen size, the tablet relationship. if you have multiple monitors, you might want to get the larger tablet, because one thing that all of these tablets have in common is there's a preference in there options that says force to screen aspect ratio.
01:09:50:07 - 01:10:07:21
Joey
this is really important basically because the positioning is absolute, like I said. So if you have a square aspect ratio tablet and two big widescreen monitors, your x axis on the tablet is going to move ten times as fast as your y axis, and it's going to be confusing and it's going to be terrible, and you're going to hate it, right?
01:10:07:21 - 01:10:25:06
Joey
So what you do essentially is you map the tablet, you turn off half the tablet to make it, the right aspect ratio for your screen raster. And now if you draw a circle on the tablet, it'll be a circle on the screen. But if you know you have lots of big widescreen monitors, you might want to consider a bigger tablet.
01:10:25:06 - 01:10:45:11
Joey
Now, me, I've been using these things for so long that even on pretty big monitor setups, I use the small tablet because it's super fast. Because it's smaller. But I am, you know, 20 years into this. Yeah, really, really precise. It's definitely a learning curve. And when you're learning the tablet, my biggest recommendation is throw your mouse in the trash.
01:10:45:11 - 01:11:06:01
Joey
You don't have to actually throw it in the trash, but unplug it, remove all other pointy devices, and struggle through because it is awkward and weird. When you first started, and eventually it will just click and feel natural. And the problem is, if you don't unplug your other pointing devices when it starts to get hard, you'll default to go to the other point device.
01:11:06:03 - 01:11:07:06
Joey
You'll never have that moment.
01:11:07:10 - 01:11:28:05
Robbie
One thing that I really helped my transition years ago, and I still do it, and I don't know if anybody else does it to me, but that is, you know, we'll have to do a whole nother episode talking about our love of, VP products. I don't know if anybody out there uses VP, but Joey and I, Joey turned me on again to VP, and now I use it for pretty much everything in my life.
01:11:28:05 - 01:11:46:20
Robbie
But it's an ultra sticky but yet removable double sided tape. and one of the things that was screwing me up at first with, the tablets was I found that I was kind of, you know, just the way I was using it, I was kind of pushing the tablet itself around the desk, which was driving me absolutely bonkers.
01:11:46:22 - 01:11:49:19
Robbie
so the best thing I ever did, my transition was to.
01:11:49:23 - 01:11:50:05
Joey
Suck.
01:11:50:05 - 01:12:00:12
Robbie
It down. Yeah. Just took two strips of VP on the back of it, put it on the desk, and then that way, it's kind of almost like it feels like you're just using the desk. just kind of as the pad.
01:12:00:17 - 01:12:24:21
Joey
Yeah. Quick plug for VP three. very high bond, double sided tape. Literally. My entire suite is held together by it. I have cars with parts held together by it. don't tell the Maryland Department of Transportation that, but it is super useful to have, like, a good, clean double sided tape to put some of these devices arranged in your desk in such a way that they're not going to flop around.
01:12:24:21 - 01:12:32:11
Robbie
And my mine even is kind of it's not like straight onto the desk. It's even add a little bit of an angle just where my hand kind of falls.
01:12:32:11 - 01:13:08:18
Joey
Yeah. Where you feel naturally with. Yeah. No. So that that brings us to these display tablets. Wacom has always had them. They call it their Cintiq product line. my friends at Events Labs just released a really impressive, I think, 20 some inch, pretty color accurate display tablet that I've heard nothing but good things about. those are really, really attractive tools for artists that are painting, in my opinion, or working on photos directly because you've got your image in front of you and you're working on it, just like if you were drawing on a piece of paper.
01:13:08:19 - 01:13:27:23
Joey
Yeah, I feel like they lose their utility for applications and systems that were not designed to work on top of a screen. The reason I say that is every time I've used one, I'm like, this is going to be awesome. I'm gonna have my clips right under my fingertip. It's going to feel super interactive. It's going to be like Minority Report.
01:13:28:00 - 01:13:45:03
Joey
Yeah. You know, I'm gonna be moving things around. It's going to be awesome. And then you actually use it and you realize that your arms covering two thirds of the user interface, and it's confusing, and you're moving your arm around and accidentally doing weird stuff. And no matter how good the touch rejection is, it's not exactly right. And you don't know where to position your elbow.
01:13:45:06 - 01:14:01:21
Joey
And it's just they're fantastic tools for digital artists to draw and paint photo retouched photos. Yeah, I haven't seen a good use for it in normal post-production. And I think that's just a function of the fact that all of our software was not designed for that.
01:14:01:21 - 01:14:26:21
Robbie
I was gonna say it's not, it's it's not like, you know, I a couple times I've tried it, I have like, you know, because I, you know, me, I'm really into the touch interface on iPads. Right? I love how natural and fluid that is. It's just not the same, unfortunately. And I find like, you know, even with the hand, you know, the the finger, hand rejection or whatever, you still end up, but, you know, bumping buttons on the screen or, you know, doing various things.
01:14:26:23 - 01:14:35:05
Robbie
And to be honest, they're kind of pricey and kind of big. They take up quite a bit of screen real estate because they have stands that kind of, you know, you can adjust the.
01:14:35:08 - 01:14:38:07
Joey
Yeah, because you got to adjust it to your position for where you're doing it.
01:14:38:10 - 01:14:55:17
Robbie
So we didn't have to show about tablets because we love them so much. But let's move on to some other devices. and I think the, the most obvious one in a color suite, obviously, is going to be the color control surface. Right? you don't you have to have been hiding under a rock. If you don't understand the basic benefits of a control surface.
01:14:55:17 - 01:15:32:01
Robbie
Right. It is, allows you to have tactile control over simultaneous parameters of the, the software that you're using. of course, if you're using resolve like we do, Black magic has a dedicated line of panels going from, the, the, the micro all the way up to the full size advanced panel. And basically as you work your way up, no matter if it's black magic, a tangent or even, you know, say base light or Nakota or whatever as you work your way up the, the model lines for most of these manufacturers, for color control surfaces, essentially what you're getting is, generally speaking, more buttons, right?
01:15:32:03 - 01:16:00:17
Robbie
to do more things, more screens to see more information simultaneously on the screen. and then depending on the control surface itself, there might be some proprietary that panel only things. black has done this, of course, with kind of separating the advanced panel line from, the micro and the mini panels. There's lots of things on the advanced panel that can't be mapped, anywhere else, except inside of, or with rather the advanced panel.
01:16:00:19 - 01:16:24:22
Robbie
And that's proprietary. You know, black magic doesn't let some of those things happen elsewhere. and I think, you know, from my perspective, I can't imagine being a professional colorist without, a control surface. I talked to a lot of people, some very. You know, I've even heard of, you know, A-list colorists back in the day, especially with tools like luster and some of the older, other color correction services.
01:16:25:00 - 01:16:46:13
Robbie
applications rather were, you know, no, they shun control surfaces. Everything was pen driven and that kind of stuff. you might have some comfortability with that coming from your, you know, your DDS and soft image days back. back then, but these days, I can't. I can't think of anything more, you know, just kind of required in a room.
01:16:46:13 - 01:17:14:09
Robbie
I can deal without this, that and the other thing, but without the control surface, I'm just slow. I honestly, the muscle memory is so built up over the years that I'm just faster. But also, I think the thing again is I'm doing multiple things at once, right? You know, if I want to be able to drop the shadow contrast while simultaneously, you know, adding some warmth to the highlights, yeah, I can do those things simultaneously.
01:17:14:11 - 01:17:36:09
Robbie
and I think the other thing about a control surface that really is, is a key thing for me is that, you know, as you go up the chain, you're not necessarily going to get, I don't know, I shouldn't say you're not going to necessarily get different results, but what I, what I find is that you're going to get faster results.
01:17:36:09 - 01:17:54:23
Robbie
You know, people often ask me like, man, how do you get through, you know, whatever, 600 shots in a day or something like that. And honestly, it's because the control surface, you know? Yeah, I've used all of them. They all have pros and cons. I think, I certainly, you know, obviously there's a lot of people who lust after the big panel.
01:17:55:01 - 01:18:10:02
Robbie
it's not it's amazing, but it's not, you know, there's some downsides of it. Downsides, the many downsides, the micro. But I know that, you know, there's other people out there using just beside, you know, just other tools other than resolve. There are other panels that work in other applications. Right?
01:18:10:04 - 01:18:32:16
Joey
Yeah. I think if you're in resolve and resolve as your primary software, you'd be silly to buy a third party panel. The Black Magic panels are so directly integrated with the software that nothing works better. I use the mini panel here at home, but I've used all of them. The advanced panel, if you have room for it on your desk, is absolutely incredible.
01:18:32:16 - 01:18:55:15
Joey
And I'll say this Black Magic recently updated the layout of it. Give it a completely new layout, and it's just so much better than it ever was before. Because remember, that panel's been out for a long time and the software has obviously evolved hugely over ten some years now. The logic and the layout and the functionality on the advanced panel matches the software.
01:18:55:15 - 01:18:57:15
Robbie
They actually gave new keycaps like so.
01:18:57:15 - 01:19:18:18
Joey
You had to go in and replace all the keycaps. And now if you buy an advanced panel, they're all shipping with the new keycaps. They're not shipping the old layout at all. so if you have an advanced panel and you haven't moved to the new keycaps, I highly recommend doing it. Just like when you get your first Wacom tablet, that first week, you're going to hate it because you're you're relearning everything, but once it clicks, it's so good.
01:19:18:20 - 01:19:47:04
Joey
Now, if you are working in other software or you need to do multiple different softwares, really the name of the game is is tangent the tangent elements. So a cool new development is the tangent map or software. Now the tangent mapping and resolve hasn't been updated in many many many many years. And you can't change it. It's really the only software that isn't mappable in the tangent mapper, which is they're kind of version two of their driver software.
01:19:47:06 - 01:20:07:03
Joey
you know, the map or software that comes with the tangent panels is very, very powerful. You can map the different functionalities of different software to anywhere you want in the in the panel, all of the buttons, every individual button and knob and rotary is not labeled. So they have little screens telling you what they are. So you can make the panel layout anything you want.
01:20:07:05 - 01:20:26:17
Joey
I personally on my second desk have a full set of element panels, and that serves two purposes one, I'm hyper paranoid about failure. If I spilled coffee into my mini panel, I want to have something as a backup, right? But two, I do a lot of still photography, and my weapon of choice for photo retouching and photo color grading is capture one.
01:20:26:23 - 01:20:33:09
Joey
Capture one is fully mappable on the tangent panels and it works really, really, really well.
01:20:33:11 - 01:20:42:14
Robbie
Yeah. I mean, you know, the thing the thing to me about control panels, in general is that there are, like I said, there's things you can like and things that you can dislike about them.
01:20:42:17 - 01:21:02:03
Joey
Yeah, I love the mini battle. I think it's it's so well built. It's so nice and smooth and it's got exactly the right amount of stuff. we'll talk a little bit later about adding to the parts that, it doesn't have.
01:21:02:08 - 01:21:29:03
Robbie
Yeah. we're going to talk about stream decks. I want to add one last quick thing to the mini panel. Full panel discussion. That was actually seems like the smallest, stupidest thing, but is actually really kind of an awesome thing. So the advanced panel is USB based, right? Yes. which is weird, but good because it was an upgrade from the older two panels that were all Ethernet based, which people had a problem with and they went to USB.
01:21:29:03 - 01:21:52:07
Robbie
It's great kind of can can be a pain with the whole thing. We were talking about last time with having stuff in, you know, computers in a machine room and extending USB. But there's ways around that. The thing I love about the mini is that it's pokey powered over Ethernet, right? And because it's Ethernet network based, it can actually work on multiple computers from the same panel.
01:21:52:08 - 01:22:10:19
Robbie
Right? And you're like, well, why would I ever want to use that? Well, I'll talk, I'll give you an example. Right. I am rendering something on my main box. Right. And I want to get ahead on, you know, whatever, doing some base grades on another show. Right. Well guess what, I can just flip my monitor over to input two, which is the output of my assist station.
01:22:10:21 - 01:22:26:10
Robbie
And because the panel's there and because it's IP based, I can switch things over, use that, and still use the panel while my other box is doing something, have some advantages of being able to, you know, power cycle the panel easily. and it's just one less cable to have attached to the panel.
01:22:26:10 - 01:22:34:08
Joey
Yeah. That's, you know, it's it's real nice to just have that one little Ethernet cable and keep all your wire management really nice and clean.
01:22:34:08 - 01:22:59:00
Robbie
So let's talk about Stream Deck as you suggested, because one of the things that we're losing when we go to a smaller control surface, is a lot of button functionality, right? There's just not as physically as many buttons to map to. Right. And, the stream deck, I think over the past, I don't know how long it's been out, probably five, 6 or 7 years has that that the product itself and the ecosystem has exploded.
01:22:59:00 - 01:23:37:00
Robbie
Right. this was originally, kind of marketed towards gamers, content creators doing like, Twitch streaming, you know, or streaming live games or, you know, using OBS to do, you know, various things. And it's so absolutely can be used for that. But also it is it's just exploded how many, you know, uses it has and the ecosystem and has, in my opinion, the stream deck, whether you know, now it's available in a couple of different sizes from like the micro, which I think is, well, like 2 or 3 buttons all the way up to the excels, which, I don't have a couple of in here, I think are 25 buttons or
01:23:37:00 - 01:23:55:22
Robbie
something like that. Right. the whole idea about this is that it is an L, LCD backplane that has a bunch of buttons on top of it, you know, kind of segmenting that out, you know, the the big LCD. And you can have buttons that do different things. And by different things I mean different things. I mean, they can be keyboard shortcuts.
01:23:55:22 - 01:24:10:02
Robbie
They can run various macros. Those macros can be designed inside of the stream deck software to do multiple actions or button, multiple button pushes or whatever. or they can be designed outside of the stream deck ecosystem.
01:24:10:05 - 01:24:11:09
Joey
Or an external application.
01:24:11:10 - 01:24:31:22
Robbie
Or through an external application to write a script like, hey, when I click this button, I want these nine things to happen right? Move the mouse here, click this, click that. Right. so you know, on there on the surface, the stream deck provides a lot of missing functionality that you might not have with a smaller panel, but even I got to be honest with you, Joey, even with the big panels, I still ran a stream deck.
01:24:31:22 - 01:24:54:06
Robbie
Right. for for a lot of things. for example, we're big fans of omni scope, scope software. You can actually just map some, you know, solo commands or different layouts and all that kind of stuff right to the stream deck. So, you know, if you're doing QC one button just to hit QC right. also companies like Flounder Scientific, they have their their IP based control utility.
01:24:54:08 - 01:25:10:04
Robbie
you can map monitor controls like if you have a big monitor up on the wall, instead of getting up and hitting the menu button and twist the knobs, you can control all that using a stream deck. I know that you even use Stream Deck for like, home automation and like switching between like, you know, turning your air conditioning on and off.
01:25:10:04 - 01:25:30:20
Robbie
And you know that this kind of thing, you are the stream deck expert. So I want to hear from you what it is that you think it provides, other than what I just said. And also, if you could just give us a kind of a brief 50,000ft level view of, okay, I got shortcuts, I can do some basic stuff with the stream deck, but now I want to do something real complex.
01:25:30:20 - 01:25:38:01
Robbie
Mouse move. Click here, move there. Like, what does the rest of the ecosystem look like for doing those things on a mac or PC?
01:25:38:02 - 01:25:59:09
Joey
Yeah, definitely. I, I like to not to be too arrogant and egotistical about this. I like to say that I was the one that brought the stream deck to the post production world. I they were pretty niche little devices. Again, like you said in the gaming world, most of the gaming people looked at them and said, why would you spend this much money on just some buttons?
01:25:59:09 - 01:26:26:17
Joey
And I looked at it, said, oh my God, those buttons are only that much money. This is the greatest thing ever. I'll take five. And I've been advocating for the stream back since like day one, and it has just exploded in, in our industry. I like to take a little bit of credit for that. I was the I was like the original stream deck for post-production advocate and the reason I think they're so powerful and the reason they're so useful, we've used macro keyboards forever.
01:26:26:17 - 01:26:47:01
Joey
Before the stream deck, we used, x keys. They were programable keyboards. And you can put little you could print out little inserts and put their functionality in there. The biggest problem with those kinds of setting up macro layouts, whether it's on a mouse that has macro buttons or a separate macro keyboard that you need to arrange and then label is they're not dynamic.
01:26:47:01 - 01:27:01:23
Joey
And what I mean by that is you can't really experiment, right? You sit down and you think about it, okay, I want printer lights over here, and I want to track forward and track back over here. And I'm going to build my little panel and I'm going to put it together. I'm going to print out all the labels and write them down and put them on the little thing.
01:27:01:23 - 01:27:10:07
Joey
And it's great. And you plug it in, you're like, this is awesome. I've got all these new buttons. And then after you work with it for like a week, you're like, I kind of wish I had arranged it completely different.
01:27:10:07 - 01:27:23:01
Robbie
Even more so than that. You're essentially. Besides the flexibility of, you know, your preference of how you want to arrange things, you're essentially limited to a top level only with that. Right? Because exactly whatever buttons you have on that top level or.
01:27:23:02 - 01:27:49:07
Joey
Shifting them and trying to remember it or trying to make really complicated labels. So the stream deck, you can have hundreds of different combinations. All of them don't have to be labeled because the screens label them dynamically as you page through them or go through submenus. And most importantly, you can evolve your layout in real time. You want to switch to buttons, drag one across to the other and it just switches the icon, changes the labeling changes, and the functionality moves with it.
01:27:49:11 - 01:28:04:01
Joey
It lets you build a panel in an interactive way that you never could before, and you can just kind of it's like anything else. The more you can iterate and evolve, the better it's going to be. And this lets you do that in a very nondestructive way.
01:28:04:04 - 01:28:24:13
Robbie
Yeah, those are some great points about the stream deck. I think the point that I think holds the most confusion for people is okay, mapping keyboard shortcuts and that kind of basic thing makes sense, right? one thing I should point out before I get into what I'm about to say is that in the stream deck ecosystem, there is a marketplace too.
01:28:24:13 - 01:28:49:17
Robbie
So a lot of people have done not only pre-configured icon packs and things like that, but also pre-configured actions. Right? So somebody has some, you know, someone has spent the time, you know, going through and built that functionality. So if you want to buy something that's turnkey, right. Generally speaking, all you have to do is load their keyboard profile into resolve logic wherever you're using and then map those keys.
01:28:49:17 - 01:29:09:01
Robbie
Right? The, the the fun stuff really comes though when you want to kind of DIY it, and kind of get a little more, more functionality for that. Right? So were the two main applications, we have experience with and I always recommend people are on the Mac. it's an application called Keyboard Maestro, which I think is like 30 bucks, something like that.
01:29:09:03 - 01:29:29:20
Robbie
30 or 40 bucks. and then on the PC, a good equivalent would be an app called AutoHotkey. Right. And they allow for similar functionality. However, I have to say, and this is not a mac PC argument. I would just say from a usability standpoint, keyboard maestro is just a lot more user friendly than AutoHotkey, right?
01:29:29:22 - 01:29:48:23
Robbie
But it allows you to do things like, multiple step button clicks, right? Or allows you to do things like what happens on push and release, right. but more so to the point, it also lets you do a lot of things with mouse positioning and things that are on screen. So here's a here's a great example. Right.
01:29:49:01 - 01:30:17:09
Robbie
you're on a mini panel. and you, you, you work a lot in groups, right? So pre clip clip post clip and timeline level groups, in resolve, that's either a pull down, right, or it's, a bunch of little small radio buttons at the top of the, of the the node graph. Right. One of the things you can do is write a script, a macro or whatever that says, okay, push them, you know, move the mouse position to here and then click.
01:30:17:09 - 01:30:37:17
Robbie
When you're done clicking, move it to the next one or so on. Right. And the complexity of that is up to you. But I want to say that if it sounds like I'm advocating like actual coding and it can be like that on certain tools, like auto hotkey, for example, but it doesn't have to be right. A lot of these tools now have built in functionality for mouse movement, various clicking, so that kind of thing.
01:30:37:19 - 01:30:58:01
Robbie
You've done a lot more sophisticated things like this by using like variables to remember mouse positions and stuff like that. But the point is that the sky is kind of the limit, right, in terms of how deep you want to get, how many levels down you want, one action or how many you know, one action, how many additional actions that triggers.
01:30:58:03 - 01:31:11:11
Robbie
I'm trying to think of a really complicated one that I know that you've, that you've designed. Nothing's coming to mind. That, is easily explainable. Do you have something like that that you feel like is like, you know, a really complicated one outside of not being able to use those tools?
01:31:11:11 - 01:31:33:22
Joey
Yeah. And there's two things that I really, really use Keyboard Maestro for with the stream deck and resolve. And that is node selection. And well before they added many panel support for Dolby Vision. Yeah. Dolby Vision trims. Right. So I actually made a whole stream deck Excel submenu that did all the Dolby Vision trims both up and down, with a little buttons to go, plus and minus on every trim.
01:31:34:00 - 01:31:54:20
Joey
And I even went so far as to have two different versions of the macros, a fast and a slow, and a stream deck button to select between those. So I could go course, and then go make big changes to my Dolby Vision trims that I could click fine on the stream deck, and it would switch over to all the other macros and make very fine adjustments, and then hit one button to back out and go back to my main stream deck layout.
01:31:54:20 - 01:32:15:19
Joey
That's kind of that dynamic layout that I was, I was so tied to with the stream deck. Is you can have submenus, you can go, okay, Dolby Vision, whole new UI, right built right there. Now for node selection, as you mentioned, there's a great feature on the advanced panel. You can just type in a node number and hit select and it highlights that node.
01:32:15:21 - 01:32:36:15
Joey
If you use a fixed node structure it's great. You should be. That's a whole different podcast episode that we would get to. But if you use a fixed node structure, this is basically worth the price of the advanced panel just for that one thing, right? Because, you know, okay, I've got a particular setting on node 13. You always know it's always on 1313 select done.
01:32:36:20 - 01:32:57:16
Joey
You never need to click your mouse. It's super fast. My way around that with the stream deck has been I actually bought another Stream Deck XL. I have one dedicated only to node selection. I saved a preset layout in resolve that I always load up when I'm grading, so my node tree and my preset node structure is always in the same place.
01:32:57:18 - 01:33:21:09
Joey
And I have stream deck buttons literally laid out in the same shape as my node tree. So I can literally just reach out and press a node physically on the stream deck keyboard maestro picks up that stream deck button, clicks on the node for me, and we're done. I can't imagine working without that and actually clicking on individual nodes or going previous and next node a whole bunch of times to select them.
01:33:21:15 - 01:33:28:07
Joey
I can't imagine my life without that. And it's a $200 button panel and a cheap piece of software that allows me to do it.
01:33:28:09 - 01:33:46:23
Robbie
Yeah, yeah, no, I dig it. you know, so there's a lot of functionality like that with, with the stream decks. And again, one of the, the things that it's not a stream deck specific thing, but, Blackmagic improved our lights greatly is that they actually went on the Mac. They went to a standardized Mac, menu structure.
01:33:46:23 - 01:34:09:09
Robbie
Now, that works. That works great, because one of the things you can do in Keyboard Maestro, for example, is you can actually search in menus now with Keyboard Maestro. So instead of having to design, you know, some sort of hand gymnastic keyboard shortcut, to just map to a particular function, you can just say, hey, okay, I don't have any idea what the keyboard shortcut is for that, but just go into this menu.
01:34:09:09 - 01:34:11:18
Joey
Window menu show Power window at.
01:34:11:20 - 01:34:25:13
Robbie
Exactly right, and in one step you're done. But if you want to go even more advanced like that, there's a lot of tools like, hey, find this icon on the interface, right? For example, one thing I want to add to stream decks and we can, I think we have 2 or 3 more things to talk about.
01:34:25:13 - 01:34:46:09
Robbie
But I want to say one more thing about stream decks. And this is a weird one, but I remember the day specifically when you it was like 930 in the morning. I got a slack. Oh my God, oh my God. They came out with a foot pedal and I was like, okay. And so Elgato has now a stream deck foot pedal.
01:34:46:09 - 01:35:08:17
Robbie
It's a three button USB based foot pedal. Kind of looks like maybe like, a foot rest that you would have under your desk. Great. But it works in the whole ecosystem. You can sign things to the buttons, on the stream deck, on the stream deck, foot pedal. for example, the one that I have, I have, a couple different layouts for it, but most basic, it's, you know, go forward, go backwards, stop.
01:35:08:18 - 01:35:26:20
Robbie
You know, kind of mimic transport controls. I have another layout for it that does things like, you know, grab still play still previous still, you know, so I can navigate with that. It's a weird thing right. But we have more than just these two hands, right. Like, you know, when pilots are flying a plane, they're not just using the yoke, right?
01:35:26:21 - 01:35:50:01
Robbie
They're using pedals and the whole nine yards of my plane. I know I was first exposed to this, like, 25 years ago by using a foot pedal. Right? At the time, there were these big kind of archaic, maybe PS2 or whatever that connection was called, or serial or something like that. and I was first exposed to, I think I was first exposed to it in the discrete logic days, I think was when I was.
01:35:50:01 - 01:36:07:12
Robbie
But it might have been another, another system, maybe it was a quantile or something like that. I have bought into the foot pedal scenario. Hardcore, man. Not just not just the the stream deck one. but I'm a guitarist and so, you know, pedal boards have always been a big thing for me, you know, clicking on and off pedals.
01:36:07:12 - 01:36:26:03
Robbie
And now with, mini controllers and stuff, I actually I've used a number of them over the years. I would encourage people to also take a look at the air turn products. These are wireless Bluetooth based pedal controllers. you know, again, two, I think eight buttons or six buttons is the biggest one, but you can map different functionality to that.
01:36:26:05 - 01:36:52:06
Robbie
I also have started to use guitar based Midi controllers. The company I prefer is a company called Morningstar. because Keyboard Maestro supports Midi commands now, right? So I can fire off things that are Midi based within logic and other places, you know, on the Fairlight page or whatever, to control things. And so foot pedals are something that I know people are going to think you're like, weird, you know, doing things with buttons and foot pedals.
01:36:52:08 - 01:37:01:16
Robbie
But I would I, you know, I would encourage people to think about it because, it does offer a lot of additional functionality with your feet that are just sitting on the ground.
01:37:01:18 - 01:37:27:00
Joey
Yeah. I was kind of surprised at how much I really like the foot pedals, but I do because it keeps your hands free to do other things color wise. we've talked a lot about using different things at the same time, which is a real advantage of the color panel. Well, the foot pedals give you another dimension to that, and with the stream deck ones in specific, they're really nice because I can call up different functionality for them on my other stream deck so I can pull up.
01:37:27:03 - 01:37:51:20
Joey
Oh, I've got one for play heads, I've got one for stills, I've got ones for navigating the timeline. I don't need to remember what the foot pedals are doing at any given time. I just press a button on my stream deck to call up a foot pedal layout, and they're there. And anything that I've already programed in Keyboard Maestro or any of the other things I have set up in the stream deck, anything I can trigger with a stream deck, I can trigger with the foot pedals and vice versa.
01:37:51:20 - 01:37:55:08
Joey
So it works really well in their ecosystem.
01:37:55:10 - 01:38:13:01
Robbie
Yeah. and I mean, it's one of those things where, like, you don't realize like how much it adds to what you're doing until you actually like it seems silly on the surface of it to spend, you know, hard earned money, you know, $700 on a, on a foot pedal. But man, I tell you, once you go that route, it's it's kind of addictive.
01:38:13:03 - 01:38:32:04
Robbie
All right, last thing I want to, kind of wrap up with two last things we'll wrap up with, you know, we're not going to talk about reference monitors here, of course, but I do want to just kind of hint at, a little bit about, utility monitors, gooey monitors and so on and so forth. Of course, when it comes to UI monitors or gooey monitors, the choice is totally yours.
01:38:32:04 - 01:39:00:22
Robbie
About which way you go. two schools of thought here, I think primarily I don't care because I'm not looking at the UI. So who cares about what it is? It just needs to be high enough resolution, because I'm going to turn down the brightness and all that kind of stuff all together. Right. Another school of thought for a lot of people who are using their monitors for maybe doing, you know, photo editing two or whatever, you know, just like any other monitor, you want to consider getting the high quality, you know, that's your need, higher quality, you know, better color that, you know, bit depth, better color reproduction, etc. but with the
01:39:00:22 - 01:39:18:17
Robbie
monitors that interest me the most, Joey, are the ancillary additional monitors that we can use around the suite and on the desk for other things. And I see one in front of right in front of you behind your control surface. There. it seems like it's a smaller monitor than the rest of your monitors. What, that what's that one all about?
01:39:18:18 - 01:39:41:10
Joey
Yeah. So we've gone through various levels of smaller HDMI monitors. I use this kind of called electro, where you can buy a little cheap HDMI monitors on Amazon for, like, 100 bucks, and they're like 12 inch HDMI capable monitors that work really, really well for scopes, video conferencing, anything like that. I've got two on my desk in front of me.
01:39:41:10 - 01:40:00:15
Joey
One is actually watching my little security cameras I have around the house, and the other one is watching my ATM, which I use for controlling zoom meetings and stuff like that. I used to use them for scopes, but then I wanted something a little bit bigger, and that's where I got this guy, which is a this is a strange one, but I really, really love it.
01:40:00:15 - 01:40:28:18
Joey
It is a 20 inch, 21 by nine, ultra wide monitor. It's the smallest ultra wide I've ever seen. So vertically, it's really, really small. Then I've got it angled back so it fits under my reference monitor. And this is what I run my scopes on. So my direct eyeline is reference monitor scopes right under it. And I love having that extra size to have the scope layout that I want.
01:40:28:19 - 01:40:45:03
Joey
But still being able to, you know, see my reference monitor. And since it's connected to my assist station, if I'm not doing something with scopes, it's big enough. I can drag over like a word document with client notes or like a script or another window or something.
01:40:45:03 - 01:40:54:01
Robbie
Doing like, you know, like a live stream with a client you can bring over, like the, the video window with the client and be like, look, you know, keep your line of sight right to the monitor down to.
01:40:54:03 - 01:40:59:01
Joey
Anything on my assist station. Mac. I can drag right over to that thing, and it's really convenient.
01:40:59:01 - 01:41:23:11
Robbie
So I bought into this too, because I as I've gotten older and let's just say eight year, with my body, you know, turning my head all the time to look at things is is not great, right? Leads to neck pain, shoulder pain, etc.. So I did this actually the same thing. And I know you expanded them into this a little bit, and eventually ended up with that ultra wide, I went on a, I think, month long search for the the perfect in front of me monitor like that.
01:41:23:11 - 01:41:47:09
Robbie
And I ultimately decided on some strip monitors. Right. And what I mean by strip monitor, these are ultra ultra wides, right. Usually like a 32 by nine or something like that. where traditionally they've been used for like advertising, kind of like, you know, text bars and that kind of thing. I have ended up with a couple of different varieties of these, but the one I'm currently using here at home is an Asus one.
01:41:47:09 - 01:42:03:17
Robbie
It's a 14 inch, it has touch functionality if you're on the PC, but on the Mac, it's, you know, touch is not great. but it can be powered by a usb-C, HDMI, connections obviously, as well. and it's great because it's right in front of me. I have three scopes on it all the time. from Omni Scope.
01:42:03:17 - 01:42:21:23
Robbie
Right. I have, you know, my RGB. why are you parade? I have a regular vectorscope, and I have, a, HMO vectorscope on it. Right. So the primary data that I need, most of the time, I can click some buttons on my stream deck to switch layouts on it very quickly, depending on what I'm doing. But the point is, is that it keeps me kind of looking straight and centered.
01:42:22:04 - 01:42:44:07
Robbie
Don't have to take my eyes off of much. Turn around and because it's nice and small, doesn't take up a lot of extra room on the desk as well. there's a whole variety of these on Amazon and, you know, Alibaba and stuff like that. The one thing I'll just warn you about, and this is why you kind of petered out on these was because, you know, a lot of these are really just kind of raw monitors, right?
01:42:44:07 - 01:42:57:21
Robbie
They don't have, a lot of them. The cheaper ones are not going to have a lot of great software support. So you're going to run into potentially, edit support on your computer and trying to get the monitor to display the right resolution. Yeah.
01:42:57:23 - 01:43:15:01
Joey
Basically. Yeah. 80 to 90% of the strip monitors you could buy for cheap on Amazon do not report their correct resolution to the computer. Yeah. And if you're on a mac getting around that is a gigantic hassle that involves breaking some of the security built into the system. And I don't recall.
01:43:15:01 - 01:43:21:05
Robbie
Yeah, there are there are some freeware or shareware tools. do a little bit more of that on the Mac in terms of.
01:43:21:05 - 01:43:23:23
Joey
But you can't do it without turning off system integrity production.
01:43:23:23 - 01:43:24:04
Robbie
Right.
01:43:24:09 - 01:43:27:21
Joey
There's it is a massive security risk.
01:43:27:23 - 01:43:48:05
Robbie
There's a whole bunch of gotchas there. But it's something I would I would definitely consider. And then lastly, the last thing I think about on our desk as we wrap this up is I just want to briefly talk about task lighting. everybody is probably familiar with the idea of, you know, biased lighting behind your monitors to kind of, reduce eyestrain, how perceive, contrast, that kind of stuff.
01:43:48:05 - 01:44:07:08
Robbie
But, you know, with so much equipment on the desk, there's a lot going on. Right? and one of the companies or products that I, I've really just come to love just because, the owner and the team is just fantastic. And that is, media light. you can find them at, bias lighting.com, I believe, is the website.
01:44:07:14 - 01:44:31:10
Robbie
Or just do, search for, for media lights. they make a whole lot of different light products for, for people like us, people in post-production video. They've, they've gotten into a little bit of a home theater market, but their primary stuff is still a lot of the higher end, bias lighting, which is going to give you the highest CRI highest, you know, color rendering index possible using the best LED chips out there.
01:44:31:12 - 01:44:48:11
Robbie
But one of the things they have and I can see one, I think that's what it on your desktop might be a microphone behind you, but they make a little desk lamp, that has a little diffuser on it has an intensity change. So for your control surface, your stream decks or keyboard, whatever. I got a couple of those on the desk.
01:44:48:11 - 01:44:49:10
Robbie
Two. And I absolutely love them.
01:44:49:10 - 01:44:53:20
Joey
Yeah. And it's important to note it's nice wide cri d65.
01:44:53:21 - 01:44:57:14
Robbie
Right. Exactly. So it's not going to conflict. with with anything else right now.
01:44:57:14 - 01:45:17:15
Joey
The last thing I want to talk about that I think ties all of this together. and it's something that we've done in both my suite, your home suite and the office. and I think one of the greatest things you can do if you're a little bit of a tinkerer and you want to really perfect your desk setup by a 3D printer.
01:45:17:17 - 01:45:18:13
Robbie
Oh, yeah, man.
01:45:18:15 - 01:45:34:10
Joey
We have so much 3D printed stuff putting all this together, my stream deck XLS are held up by a mount that I designed, that is, vhb tape to the desk and holds them at exactly the same angle and height as the mini panel, one.
01:45:34:10 - 01:45:34:21
Robbie
Hundred percent.
01:45:34:22 - 01:45:57:20
Joey
Right. The the mount that holds this scope monitor at the exact angle that I want 3D printed. Yep, once you have a 3D printer, it will kind of open up your mind to oh well, I wish my desk had this little widget to hold this little button that I saw on Amazon. Great. Now you can. There's huge communities of people that will just, you know, give out models to print.
01:45:57:23 - 01:46:03:14
Joey
And also, honestly, designing things in CAD is not that difficult. Again, if you're a tinkerer kind of person, not everybody.
01:46:03:14 - 01:46:25:06
Robbie
Well, how does that work? Because because there's a there's a that's a you know, it seems like it's this like, oh yeah, just become a CAD designer and do it. The communities for 3D printing, is, is huge these days. Right. And there are so many I'm thinking of websites like Thingiverse. Right. Or a person has their own right where like there are people who contribute designs that they made for their specific need.
01:46:25:08 - 01:46:41:07
Robbie
Lot of those, you know, you can just download the design files and just, you know, go right away and go ahead and print. Some of them can be what they refer to. The industry term I think is remixing, right where you can kind of take a design bringing in your CAD software kind of, you know, rejigger it to where your specific needs.
01:46:41:09 - 01:46:57:19
Robbie
but, you know, chances are like, especially with big common things, stream decks or, things like Wacom or whatever, there's going to be a lot of this that's already been some of these already put the thought and design into it. So you can kind of experiment with that. But like it runs from basic to like advanced like I'm thinking of a basic one.
01:46:57:19 - 01:47:15:06
Robbie
I'm just looking at my desk over here like, you know, I'm always dropping my pen somewhere, right? So I just printed a little 3D printed pen holder, right. Just so I can pop my pen in right there. the other one that I'm thinking of, that I absolutely adore, is that, you actually design this for me?
01:47:15:06 - 01:47:31:03
Robbie
For my strip monitor? It was a little too low behind the mini panel. You built me some, you know, basically bookend feet for it that I, you know, you designed, I printed on my 3D printer and, and they work great, right. So you can design all these things. Headphone holder. That's another one that I 3D printed. I was looking on Amazon.
01:47:31:03 - 01:47:43:07
Robbie
I'm like, I'm not going to spend 60 bucks on a under the desk headphone holder. Well guess what went to thing of there was about 100 different designs for a headphone holder. Pick the one that worked for me. Now I had my headphones right where I need them, right down to the desk, ready to go.
01:47:43:08 - 01:48:10:05
Joey
Yeah, silly things like I love old school analog DeRose audio meters, right? I don't need them at all. I'm not in an audio critical room. I just like to watch them bounce up and down with playback. It looks really cool, right? Yeah. The problem is they're too bright for a color. Sweet by far. So I 3D printed a little mount that I designed to hold them under my UI monitor and hold some indie filter glass in front of it so they're not distractingly bright.
01:48:10:05 - 01:48:26:05
Joey
And now I've got nice little audio meters from the 80s that looks super cool. You know, it's just really nice to be able to super customize your workspace. So the point where now everything is exactly where I want it all the time, in the exact same shape that I want it.
01:48:26:06 - 01:48:43:21
Robbie
Yeah, I mean, it's it's so and again, I think it's a little intimidating at first, but 3D printing, you can get into it for as cheap as a couple hundred bucks these days for, for a basic small printer. and you'd be surprised. I mean, like, now my discussion, my thinking, like, you know, especially with things around the house or the office is like I used to.
01:48:43:21 - 01:49:05:17
Robbie
My first thought used to be like, oh, I'll just go on Amazon and get that right, because, you know, that's what everybody is, right? Big boxy Amazon. Now my thinking has changed for like, can I print that? So it's I think that's a really worthwhile thing to invest in. for various things you can create. Now, we're going to wrap it here because we've talked for a long time about, tablets and stream deck on and stuff.
01:49:05:19 - 01:49:37:20
Robbie
We haven't even touched on desks, chairs and some other ergonomic stuff. we'll potentially later do an episode on that, except it's really just going to be Joe espousing the virtues of the Herman Miller Aaron Chair for, 45 minutes and me disagreeing with him. So we'll hold that for another episode. But those things are obviously vitally important to whether it's a stand up desk, traditional workstation console with, you know, chairs you use, but hopefully now you have a better idea of some of the gadgets and things that we're big fans of, have a better understanding of Machine Room versus in suite.
01:49:37:20 - 01:49:54:10
Robbie
So there's some other things. But if we missed anything that you can't live without, please feel free to let us know. and, stay tuned with me. Might you, in summit three of this as our thoughts and things development. So thank you of course, as always for taking a watch and taking a listen for the offset podcast.