Going Deeper

This is the second part in our discussion about Women's History month, chatting about issues of identity and what it means to be a woman. 

What is Going Deeper?

Students share honest dialogue about love, relationships, dating, and sex on Michigan State University's campus.

Elle:

Oh, one more a cat calling since we're talking about physical characteristics. I think cat calling is fascinating to discuss because there is a phenomenon that I have noticed, observed where there are people who identify as women or people who are AFAB who feel left out because they haven't been catcalled, because they haven't been objectified.

Anthony:

It's like that whistle. Get them out of there. I made the whistle earlier. Y'all ain't peeped, but just that wet. No.

Anthony:

I peeped. It's crazy.

Elle:

But isn't that fascinating? Yeah. That being objectified is something that

Elle:

I don't know. That they wanna be objective. Yeah. It's that they wanna be desirable. Or why isn't this something that other people are wanting this way?

Elle:

Why is it desirable? You know? Yeah. That has to do that's that ties so well into what we're talking about next.

Anthony:

And with that, before we do make that transition, it just reminds me of the basketball player and their wife. I won't I won't name drop them unless y'all know what I'm talking about of the basketball player's wife expressed that. I don't know.

Elle:

I don't know that too. Oh, I thought you meant Steph Curry.

Anthony:

Yeah. That's the AM who I talking about.

Elle:

He he he has a tattoo of of an a on his ring finger because he can't oh, that's the wrong hand. He can't play with his wedding ring on. So he has, his

Anthony:

on his hands. That's so dope.

Elle:

I think it's very cute.

Anthony:

Well, since y'all know, Ayesha Curry, she had expressed that Steph would get a lot of, female, attention. Attention.

Elle:

Yeah. And I'd be like Method Man's wife.

Anthony:

And I don't get the reference, but

Elle:

She can fight. Every time people say he's attractive, they're like, you need to hold on. This one can fight. Oh, no. Method He's not that.

Elle:

I mean Wait.

Anthony:

He I defend my brother now.

Elle:

But is this like Shakyra is officially no longer allowed on the going deeper Pottery

Anthony:

Access Group. Oh,

Shakyra:

no. I'm

Elle:

busy. Okay. Well You can't be on all sides

Shakyra:

of the party. How about

Elle:

that? How about that? Well, that already makes more sense. So she wants to propagate misinformation. Wait a minute.

Elle:

No. No. No. No. Methan man could get it.

Elle:

And anyone who says otherwise is wrong Blake. But his wife can't fight, so I'll stop here. I don't know. That's a man? Yes.

Elle:

Yeah.

Shakyra:

That's my uncle. No.

Anthony:

good looking brother right there.

Elle:

I'm looking up. But she can fight. It's like a thing that people talk about.

Shakyra:

Yeah. I know.

Anthony:

Is she like a fighter or she just can't she got hands?

Anthony:

She can

Shakyra:

fight. She got hands.

Elle:

okay. There was an incident with Wendy Williams saying that she had, Affairs.

Anthony:

That she

Elle:

had a one night stand with Method Man. And his wife said, for years, I kept my silence while Wendy Williams lodged constant verbal attacks against my husband, myself, and our family. In the past, I ignored her lies, innuendos, and blatant attempts to provoke us. But Wendy has proven again and again she is incapable of any decency. In an obvious attempt to increase ratings for her sad biopic biopic, I don't know how to say it, Her struggling TV show and her burnt out career, Wendy, has once again targeted my husband.

Elle:

It is a pattern that she has repeated for years. Yeah. His wife can fight. Don't cross her.

Anthony:

I'd I'd eat the she threw eat the, diss track. Man, she

Elle:

I don't even know how we got to this subject.

Anthony:

But, yeah. The thing I was mentioning with Ayesha, it was to that, conversation you are mentioning of. She expressed that she would want more male, attention because Steph always gets it. So she's wondering. It made her seem like, is she less than, or does she not look as attractive as Steph?

Elle:

Yeah. And that's that's where why it gets so confusing. And that's why there are women who it's so like that's not a feeling that it's not something you're supposed to say out loud. You're not supposed to say, I want to be objectified. I want to be catcalled.

Elle:

Because the answer there is, what is wrong with you? But it is nevertheless a feeling that still exists. Mhmm.

Anthony:

So do you think, just opinion wise, I have another opinionated question I wanna ask. But first, do you feel that that attention of being flirtation or catcalling, do you feel it's a it has a necessary spot, or would you just eliminate it in general?

Shakyra:

I just feel like when it gets to the point where I'm not feeling safe, that's when it's just like, okay, bro.

Elle:

You're just doing too much.

Anthony:

But then how what are the best ways for us to know when you aren't safe? Which, Which by the way, I'm not asking these questions to pry at you.

Anthony:

I feel

Anthony:

like once once rejection is it should rejection should be a very simple thing of, like, like, you mentioned, like, the whole No. Him not being your type like that. Once it gets to that point, it's doing too much. But I'm just asking, what is the what are the parameters of knowing

Elle:

In his defense, my type is not someone who wears a shysty in a laundry room. He wasn't wrong. That's not my if you're doing that, you are not my type. My type is my boyfriend.

Anthony:

Period. Period, Mike.

Shakyra:

I just can't I I mean, me, personally, I just can't really explain it. I just feel it's just a feeling, like I don't know. You just have to experience to know it, if that makes sense.

Anthony:

Is it based on attraction? Yeah. Like, does I don't know if you've seen that meme of, like, dang. What's the what's the first one? I get I know the other is, like, harassment and the other one.

Anthony:

It's Blirting versus harassment. Okay. Her husband

Elle:

looks beautiful. HR. Hey. You look beautiful. Oh, thank you.

Shakyra:

No. It's just like it it depends on the tone. Like, if I'm not like, if you're just being vulgar like him. Oh, sorry. Like,

Elle:

dang. Let me see that. You know? Come here. You know?

Elle:

And that's when it's become like, okay, bro. You're just doing too much. Mhmm.

Shakyra:

Versus it's just like, you know, when you're just calling me like, hey, beautiful. Hey. How are you doing? You know? How's your day?

Shakyra:

I I mean, I don't be the type of woman to be like, oh, ew, get away from me. When they, you know, come to me on that type of tip or whatever, I just be like, oh, well, thank you, first of all. You're respectful. But

Elle:

When you say the type of woman, what does that type of woman look like?

Shakyra:

The type of woman that what do you mean?

Elle:

Like, you said I'm not the type of woman who would have a problem with that.

Shakyra:

Oh, you're absolutely right.

Elle:

There was I got this advice from this is not what you did, but I did get advice from somebody once. I, I'm just gonna give you an example of a situation. I had a family member say that somebody looked sketchy. And I said, what does a sketchy person look like to you? Dead silence.

Elle:

Or like Basically, like So when you say the type of woman like

Shakyra:

earlier, you know, like the aggressive, like the mean type, I guess. Like, what society, like, place us in when we reject, like, people, like, you know, ew, you know, get the f away from me and sites types stuff like that. I'm so sorry. I have to cuss. I'm sorry.

Elle:

That's just how why I

Anthony:

don't have to because there's no mind being about it.

Shakyra:

But yeah.

Elle:

He's trying to get his whole car.

Shakyra:

What I mean. You know?

Elle:

Yeah. Yeah. But to your point about catcalling

Anthony:

Mhmm.

Elle:

I always ask myself, what is the purpose? Of catcalling? Because personally, that is never going to work on me. Maybe I like I am the type who would say like, if you're like, hey, let me talk to you. No.

Elle:

Like, if you approach me and are like Like, that's why I said, like, it just depends on the

Shakyra:

for me, it just depends on the tone. Like, I guess it depends on

Elle:

where you are. Like, if we're in a bar and you approach me if I'm just walking by and you're like yeah.

Anthony:

Hello, mama. Let me whisper in

Elle:

your ear. Yeah. I didn't wanna do impression an impression of it because I realized as I was doing my impression, it might come off and it, like yeah. I get it.

Anthony:

Yeah. Yeah.

Elle:

So not I mean, but all men can't there are lots of men that can't call. So Yeah. Yeah. What is the perp are you doing it because you think it's uncomfortable. When when it is particularly graphic or vulgar, you know that's not going to work.

Elle:

You are intentionally trying to make me feel uncomfortable.

Anthony:

Mhmm. I think if I were to answer from the male perspective, I would think the purpose would be one of 2 things. Either to actually get their attention for a conversation, which as you've expressed, most of the time, it's not gonna work. Or they think that woman is so attractive that they have to express it.

Elle:

Or 3rd option, they're not doing it for the woman. They're doing themselves. For no. To make themselves look better to other men.

Shakyra:

Oh, so basically, like, brownie points.

Elle:

Yes. Like, get them running. A lot? Like, I mean,

Shakyra:

I could pull her. Watch this.

Elle:

I truly think a lot of male behavior towards women is not for their own benefit. It's to make themselves look better in the eyes of other men. Alright. Watch this, bro. Watch this.

Elle:

Hey, Malcolm here. Yes. No. That's, like, a perfect example. We're talking about, like, body counts and stuff, and they're they talk I I think some men are, like, oh, well, women care too much about male validation.

Elle:

You care too much about male validation. Trigger. Like, why We had it. We that was one of the things we talked about the very first episode.

Shakyra:

Oh, body counts? Yeah.

Elle:

Yeah. Like, why is such a conversation? That's so dumb. Unless you are in a sex zone.

Shakyra:

We have sex. I'm sorry. I'm just saying. We grown. I like to have sex.

Anthony:

And that could be a whole other thing.

Elle:

I like to drink and I like to have sex.

Anthony:

Shout out, man.

Elle:

Just getting the checks.

Anthony:

I'm sorry.

Elle:

No. You've been served. I really hope your parents don't watch this.

Anthony:

So another

Elle:

with an upper cut. Call that captain hook. Sorry.

Anthony:

Bye bye. Great. Yes. Shout out Megan. But, another opinion they should opinionated question I'd have, it would be around the topic of things being traditionally for women.

Anthony:

Like, for example, men painting their nails or men getting bellybutton piercings or wearing crop tops.

Elle:

Kinda takes us back to our discussion on identity. And I did remember to say I had a perfect segue.

Anthony:

You did? Yeah. Alright. Take it away for the segment.

Elle:

Okay. Next section. But when you say painting your nails, I think everything that I would feel about that is pretty much what I said when we were talking about physical expressions and how limiting they are to anyone who doesn't identify that way. Mhmm. You are painting your nails is so fun.

Elle:

We have a coworker who paints his nails, and the first time he painted his nails, it looked really good. And I was like, wow. And then the second time he painted it, it looked bad. And I was like, oh, your girlfriend did it for you the first time because Yeah. But how does the feminine identity relate to men?

Elle:

How can women be defined outside of their relationship to men or just outside of anyone who doesn't identify as a woman. For example, women often define themselves as mothers if they have kids more than men with children define themselves as fathers. I have been interested in doing an episode on motherhood as a whole. I think I would want that to be an interview with somebody who is mother. I mean, I'm mother, but in a different way.

Elle:

Yeah. When we ask ourself what it means to be a woman, how often does the answer involve the way we are perceived by men? How we exist in relation to men? What men expect from us? So, like, when I think about what it means to be a woman, my answer has nothing to do with men.

Elle:

Mhmm. Because I'm not talking about men.

Shakyra:

Right.

Elle:

Or, again, people who fall outside of either of those.

Anthony:

Would this section, provide the opportunity for me to, talk about what I try to talk about earlier in terms of how would

Anthony:

how

Anthony:

would you guys prefer okay. Cool.

Elle:

This no. This is this is we value your input all the time on everything. But I think this is where your input is probably gonna be strongest. Yeah. Again, like I said, we value your input.

Anthony:

Yeah. No. No. No. Definitely, I would want y'all to take just exactly how this episode has ran.

Anthony:

So the question I had earlier, if I can remember how I worded it, just how would you prefer men view you, women in terms of internally analysis? We've talked about externally in terms of what women should do in a household or what traditional values they may have or what they should and shouldn't wear to respect their All I

Shakyra:

gotta say, it's none in your no, ma. I'm just gonna say,

Elle:

it's none in your business. Honestly.

Shakyra:

I mean, no.

Anthony:

Yeah. It

Elle:

happened in

Anthony:

your business.

Elle:

It's interesting because

Shakyra:

But, no, seriously.

Elle:

The way I want, like, men in general to view me versus the way I would want a partner, like a male partner to view me, I strongly disagree. Not on a personal level, but with the idea of gender roles, with the exception of if I am on a sinking boat, if any drain has to be snaked. I recently snaked the drain in my apartment, and I wanted to die the entire time. It took me so long. My roommate had to come in and put a nose clip on me.

Elle:

Oh. The amount it hadn't been cleaned in at least 3 years, and we've only lived there for, like, 9 months. Yeah. I literally came out of that bathroom. I said, everyone who's ever taken a shower in there deserves to die.

Elle:

Yeah. And I vowed if I do marry a man, I am

Shakyra:

never So you're not gonna do the head thing? Doing that.

Elle:

I'm not ever doing that again. Also, I'm allergic to grass, so I cannot cut the grass.

Anthony:

You're allergic to grass?

Shakyra:

Yeah. Oh,

Anthony:

I'm sorry. That reminds me of people, my mommy and one of them, who's allergic to dust. And that's so unfortunate. That is

Elle:

I get hives on the back of my legs if I sit down on grass. That's so unfortunate. But

Anthony:

Wait. Are you sure you have an allergic reaction or just sensitive skin?

Elle:

It could be a allergic thing. Yeah. I'm getting patch testing done at my allergist, but we'll talk about that later.

Anthony:

Oh, okay.

Elle:

So the like I said, if I'm on a sinking boat, women and children first, yes. I'm sorry. I believe in traditional gender roles in that instance. Do it. Get me off the boat.

Elle:

I'm on me on the lifeboat being like, feminism. No. Respectfully, no. No. But yeah.

Elle:

How how I want this this I don't want this to sound like I don't see color because I don't think that's the same discussion.

Anthony:

Mhmm.

Elle:

But I would want the way I'm perceived by men to not be any different than the way they see other men.

Anthony:

Mhmm.

Elle:

Like, this is it's just so cheesy to say, like, I want you to see me for who I am. Like because being a woman is a part of my identity. I am very strongly a feminist, if you didn't know, but it's not all of my identity.

Shakyra:

Exactly.

Elle:

So and as somebody who, you know, speculating now as a 21 year old. A lot of, if not all of the women in my family have been have been stay at home mothers or are stay at home mothers. Like, my own mother was a stay at home mom for, like, 10 years. I think that's what I would want if I had children, but, obviously, that could change. It could vary depending on who I end up with Yeah.

Elle:

Financial situations, if I am physically able to have children.

Anthony:

So Can I ask a question just for clarification? Mhmm. You said your mom was a stay at home mom for 10 years. Did she do a stay was she a stay at home mom for 10 years and then stopped? Like, started working?

Elle:

Mhmm.

Anthony:

That's usually

Elle:

not She might have even been she might have gone back to work before then.

Anthony:

Oh, best. I usually hear the reverse. Like, work and then stay at home.

Shakyra:

Stay at home.

Anthony:

Yeah. Versus the reverse. That's the first time No.

Elle:

She worked until I'm talking about when she had she had children. Yeah. Yeah. She worked, and then she had my older sister. And then she had me 2 years later.

Elle:

And then she had my baby sister 5 years after that. And I I think 10 year mom, if you're watching this, I'm so sorry if it was not 10 years. You I love you. But most of the women in my family have been stay at home mothers.

Anthony:

Oh, okay.

Elle:

And it's it's so it's very, like like, I don't know very many people who like, people I knew as children who ever went to daycare.

Shakyra:

Yeah. Me either.

Elle:

So

Anthony:

I think I know of, like, a little bit in my family. But But it was in dire circumstances.

Elle:

The ideal situation for me raising a child would be, like, it takes a village. You have a community. I have in laws. I have 2 sisters. Mhmm.

Elle:

My parents, not that I would ever expect my parents to raise my children, but that there would be people

Shakyra:

who would like to to have them help out with their clients. Yeah.

Anthony:

Mhmm. Very random question. Let me hit you on this.

Anthony:

Are is it act and is it an actual fact that women are statistically smarter than men?

Elle:

That can't be right. That can't be right.

Anthony:

Because I've heard it before, but I never

Elle:

I've heard

Anthony:

it before, but I never heard it before.

Elle:

Live by the way.

Anthony:

Yeah. They y'all do?

Elle:

On the on average. And I think about that every time I see a man do something stupid. But I that that cannot be correct that women are smarter than men because intelligence doesn't have anything to do with gender. Yeah. That's like, y'all know they play chess in gender segregated leagues.

Elle:

What is the point of that? Really? Yeah. What? Why do you have a women's league for chess?

Anthony:

I'm gonna

Elle:

go to

Anthony:

chess. Mhmm.

Elle:

I do. I'm not good at it though. Mike is great at it.

Anthony:

And I really wanna play him with chess one day.

Elle:

He's literally always playing chess. Like, you know the I bet he's

Anthony:

I don't wanna be

Elle:

I bet he's added

Anthony:

chess too.

Elle:

I bet he's cheating on me right now, and then it's like a manager's nothing dumb. I bet I never I trust him, so I don't think that. But, like, if he's ever on his phone and I look I'm like, you're pulling chest right now, aren't you? And he'd be like, yeah. So is so how would you wanna be how do you wanna be treated by men as a whole and then also men that you would potentially wanna pursue a relationship with?

Elle:

For me? Mhmm. And there's really no wrong answer here.

Shakyra:

Oh, no. No. I'm just really trying to gather my thoughts. I won't sound like, you know, a idiot on him. As a whole, I do want to see be seen on

Elle:

Some chess tournaments have a separate category for women. Can you

Shakyra:

guys hear me?

Anthony:

I was about to ask you. Turn it turn it

Anthony:

Yeah.

Shakyra:

I was gonna say,

Anthony:

can you

Shakyra:

turn me a little bit?

Elle:

Turn it up. Slow songs made for skinny hearts. Sorry.

Shakyra:

I'm not trying to touch the mic. But as a whole, I really do wanna be seen as equal because I don't know. The whole like you said, the whole general, to me, sometimes, it's just kinda unnecessary. I just feel like if you can do it, I can do it too. Like, just teach me.

Shakyra:

You know? Teach me how to fix a tire. Teach me how to

Anthony:

Someone I don't know. Trying to teach you how to play spades, but you don't. Alright. My bad.

Elle:

I didn't have to put my business out there, though. If y'all could y'all taught me how play spades.

Anthony:

Because you wanted to learn.

Elle:

Yeah. It was fun. That's my

Shakyra:

point. Right.

Anthony:

That's my point. By the way,

Anthony:

to my point, Freddie,

Anthony:

spades is fun. Anthony,

Elle:

Mhmm. I'm a woman who wanted to learn how to play spades. She's a woman who doesn't. Maybe you need to respect those differences.

Anthony:

You're right. You absolutely

Shakyra:

I mean,

Elle:

it's not that I didn't. I just you know, they all say Casper be at a bathtub. You know?

Shakyra:

So But yeah. But with my partner, again, I wanna be treated equal. You know? Yeah. I mean

Elle:

When you you said, like, why you said it's not necessary? Yeah. Definitely in our modern age. Yeah. You know, like, in an air one of the

Shakyra:

If I can cook, come on, bro.

Elle:

You can cook too. Mhmm. One of the most life saving inventions was the invention of baby formula, which is by people who are pretentious about breastfeeding. Boo. Fed is fed.

Elle:

If if your baby is being fed, no one else needs to say anything about it.

Anthony:

You get this.

Anthony:

No. No.

Elle:

I Oh, which I say boo when you said Okay. That's good.

Shakyra:

But Like, because it's just like, first of all

Elle:

Baby formula saves lives because you're not alone. You can't breastfeed. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

Elle:

Yes.

Shakyra:

Not anybody everybody cannot, you know, lactate.

Anthony:

So wait.

Anthony:

So do you

Elle:

Also, you don't have to have a young like, if you've and, like, if you read medieval times like a wet nurse, the queens weren't nursing their own kids.

Anthony:

They had women who did it for

Elle:

them. Yeah.

Anthony:

Question if you all are knowledgeable of this question. Is there a difference between breastfeeding and formula? And if there is, what's the difference?

Elle:

There is a difference because, like, if we are speaking purely scientifically, formula or breast milk is better for babies. But

Anthony:

Based on what?

Elle:

Oh, let me get there.

Anthony:

I didn't know. I thought alright.

Elle:

But there's, like, watch the Adam Ruins Everything video on breastfeeding. It's super informative. The difference is that breast milk can be like, there's a lot of differences, and I know this partially from being a nanny, but also because my mom's a dietitian. 1, breastfed babies are usually chunkier, and that's just cuter. No.

Elle:

I'm playing. 2, it can be it's not, like, specifically tailored to the baby, but at the same time, it is.

Shakyra:

Yeah.

Elle:

Like, if your baby is this is a a true scientific fact. If your baby is sick in some way and they breastfeed, it is possible for your body to produce the key.

Shakyra:

Because some babies are also allergic to formulas too.

Elle:

So Yeah. Yeah. My one of my cousins one of my cousins is allergic to formula.

Shakyra:

Who was it? I think it was my little sister. She was, like, she was a really bad allergic. Like, she used to get really, you know, gassy, and she used to, like, throw up and stuff like that a lot.

Anthony:

Formula and almost saying.

Elle:

It has to do with how you them. There's, like, a ton of there are multiple ways to give a baby a bottle. Some people believe you should keep the, like, the nipple half full so the baby can breathe, but then other people think you should keep it full so the baby's not getting more air and the baby won't take gas

Anthony:

here.

Shakyra:

And stuff. Yeah.

Elle:

So but baby formula saving lives.

Shakyra:

Hard. I don't know.

Elle:

Mhmm. Baby formula as an example of, like, ways in which gender, like, old tiny gender roles, if and the idea that gender roles were always a thing in every single civilization ever, and we're the same way is such a lie. Like, I think Roman has talked about this. The idea that things were worse in the past is not always true. On the whole, maybe.

Elle:

Maybe. But, like, we have stricter we there were stricter incest laws in Victorian England than there are now. It's legal to marry your first cousin in a lot of states.

Shakyra:

Way home. Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

Elle:

Because I was watching a TV show. It's called My Big Fat American, and then they use a word that a lot of people now don't use. Usually, the term is Romani. Starts with the g s p y. People don't use that term anymore, so I'm not going to use it.

Elle:

But there's a TV show called My Big Fat American Wedding. And they there were these 2 kids getting married, and they were from West Virginia, and they had to go to Virginia because they were first cousins. And first cousins can't get married Mhmm. In in West Virginia. But in Victorian England, you had to be, I think, at least 4th cousins to get married.

Elle:

So there we had stricter incest laws in England back then than we do now. So the idea that things were always worst in the past is not always true. But in terms of Western society and gender roles in America, modern technology has made a lot of the things that used to be necessary. And again, they really weren't, in every case, obsolete. Like I never knew that.

Elle:

It's yeah. Interesting. This actually goes if we're done with how the feminine identity relates to men, the next topic is feminism. So that really goes plays into it really well. So feminism, how does feminism play into womanhood, different levels of feminism?

Elle:

For example, the Barbie movie, pause for applause.

Anthony:

Face I

Anthony:

haven't seen it yet.

Elle:

You should watch it.

Shakyra:

It's a it's a cute one.

Elle:

Have you seen it, Damonte?

Shakyra:

No. Boo.

Anthony:

How coincidental that the 2 men in here didn't see Barbie.

Elle:

Lots of men saw Barbie. What's your excuse?

Anthony:

No. That that's the point I'm making. Yeah.

Elle:

Oh, okay. Yeah. So there is sorry. That was my chair. How for example, the Barbie movie faced some criticism for being too entry level, like the feminine feminism.

Elle:

I don't understand it. Like What

Anthony:

does Ava mean?

Elle:

Let me explain. But it was also radical enough that it was banned in some countries. So America Ferrera, who is the actress too? Yes. America Ferrera, is the actress who plays one of the characters whose name is completely escaping me right now.

Elle:

But, oh my god, I can only remember that she's the mom. I'm her. I'm her lover.

Shakyra:

Let me see.

Elle:

Okay. So this is an article from US Magazine because she said it in an interview with New York Times that that article was locked behind a paywall. So I'm quoting a quote. I'm terribly sorry. I don't like to do that.

Elle:

This is an article by Molly McGowan. I hope I'm saying

Shakyra:

that. That's her name.

Elle:

Scares me. Yeah. I'm hope I'm hoping I'm saying Molly's name right from US Weekly. Greta Gerwig's Greta Gerwig's Barbie made history last year wowing audiences with this pink palette and powerful performances while raking in more than $1,000,000,000 at the box office. But that success did not come without criticism.

Elle:

As a film with a very clear feminist message, some critics argued that Barbie, particularly the monologue she gives Gloria America Ferrera, where she's like, you have to be to this, to that, or you're not enough. Like, that made me cry. I saw the movie twice. It made me cry both times. But I know people who didn't have a reaction to that.

Elle:

Like, I have female friends who saw it, and they thought, this isn't all that radical. Like, this isn't as deep as you might think it is. And to me, that's a good thing because that just proves they were socialized in a way where that didn't surprise them. They're like, of course. But if you weren't socialized in that way, that moment was very touching, especially if you're like me and you cry at everything.

Elle:

Quote, cut to me doing this again. So America Ferrera said this, we can know things and still need to hear them out loud.

Shakyra:

Oh, I'm sorry. I just pulled up her monologue.

Elle:

There you go.

Shakyra:

You have to be thin, but not too thin. You can never say you want to be thin. You have to have you have to say you want to be healthy, but you also have to say you want to be thin Mhmm. And etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Elle:

It's I think it's a beautiful monologue, and she's a very talented actress. So this is what she said. We can know things and still need to hear them out loud. It can be cathartic. There are a lot of people who need feminism 101.

Elle:

Whole generations of girls who are just coming up now and who don't have the words for the culture that they're being raised in. Also, boys and men who may have never spent time thinking about any feminist theory. So yes, the feminist theory in that movie is very entry level. The I the stuff she's expressing in terms of feminist theory, in terms of womanhood, like, is not radical. That's

Shakyra:

kind of something if you Life changing.

Elle:

If you've been involved in feminism for a while, those are pretty basic ideas. You're like, yeah. But that doesn't mean it's not necessary.

Shakyra:

Yeah. Because I was gonna say, like, not a lot of people, you know, understand how feminism work. Mhmm. And I just feel like I just feel like that movie is the start of the conversation, basically.

Elle:

Because sometimes when you ask people about feminism and they're like, well, I like feminism, but I don't like x, y, and z. Z. And it's like, I don't think you understand what feminism is. Yeah. I kinda like feminism kind of when you're too feminist.

Elle:

Feminine? The technical definition of feminine Okay. Yeah. Let's get Feminism is okay. I've been saying womanhood, femininity, and feminism so much that it's starting to not sound like a word.

Elle:

Okay. So the technical definition of feminism is the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes. So speaking of elementary educate oh, not my laptop dying. We gotta wrap it up. So all feminism, you know, is on an on the surface is belief in the equality of men and women.

Elle:

But it is more than that because, obviously, not everybody identifies as a man or a woman. Mhmm. So feminism, I think, I I think everybody should be a feminist. And if there's a reason that you think you shouldn't be, then you might not understand what feminism is. Like, I've got some feminist stickers here.

Elle:

I have I try not to be a white feminist because I think white feminism is so damaging, and it's akin to the patriarchy because it's still upholding a certain standard of feminism and what it means to be a woman. Mhmm. But I have a lot of Ruth Bader Ginsburg items, and I will say that it's reached a point where people gift them to me. It's not even like like, I have a t shirt. Like, one of my favorite gifts I've ever received was from my aunt who crocheted me a Ruth Bader Ginsburg doll, and I love it with all my heart.

Elle:

I have when she died, I had multiple people text to ask if I was okay, and, no, I was not. She was not a woman without flaws. She definitely should have stepped down sooner. But I find her to be, on the whole, a good role model. Like, I have a quote from her on my laptop that says, I've also got a picture over here.

Shakyra:

Yeah. I see that.

Elle:

That says, speak your mind even if your voice shakes, which is something that's very important to me as someone who's a very emotional

Anthony:

person,

Elle:

where it's like just because you might be about to cry when you're angry, doesn't mean that what you have to say doesn't have value. Mhmm. So like I said, I think everybody should be a feminist. And I think my idea of what it means to be a woman is very is tied to feminism. Not entirely, but it's it's tied to feminist I oh, you know what?

Elle:

I have reached a conclusion for myself of what it means to be a woman. Mhmm. Feminism, sisterhood, community, compassion, and strength. Put it on a

Shakyra:

shirt. We should we should put it on a shirt, actually.

Elle:

We should. So what does and also, I haven't had a lot of experiences in my life where I've been the target of sexism, but I have had some. When I was in high school, I people who know me might know this story. I wanted to be fight captain of my drama club, and I like I mentioned doing Shakespeare theater in the summers. I have quite a bit of experience with Shakes Shakes come Shakes combat?

Elle:

Shakespearean stage combat and stage combat as a whole. I taught it to children, safely, obviously. But I I wanted to be fight captain for the play that we were doing or the musical, which was Newsies and there's a couple fight scenes. And I asked if I could be fight captain and my director, a man, told me that he was gonna have another student do it. And I was I said he, because he had been no.

Elle:

This was for Romeo and Juliet. He had literally only he had done one fight scene the previous year. And I said, respectfully, I have 7 years of stage combat experience, and he has won. And he said, well, you're a crew head, because I was head of costumes crew, And I was also in the show. And I said, he's a crew head.

Elle:

He's head of set construction.

Anthony:

Right.

Elle:

And he's in the show.

Shakyra:

That's crazy. So why why

Elle:

can't And he was, like, well, by the time the show starts, all of set

Shakyra:

construction's work is

Anthony:

done. It's a

Elle:

lot of,

Shakyra:

well, well, well, well. Yes. Well, you're not good enough. That's what he wanted to say.

Elle:

Well, I eventually got out of him. Like, he it was like, well, second instruction, that job is already done by the time that the show is starting, and costumes is still active. And I was like, I said, I wouldn't ask for this responsibility if I didn't think I could handle it. And then he said to me, well, other student, just commands a room differently than you do. I challenge you to find anyone who has spent more than 5 minutes of with me, who will tell you that I don't know how to command a room.

Elle:

I'll wait. I have a lot of flaws. That ain't one of them. Okay. And the student in particular was 6 foot 6 and he had a beard.

Elle:

So that's what he meant by that. So I I like I said, I haven't that's one of the experiences that sticks out to me when I think of targets

Shakyra:

and I mean, no.

Elle:

Sexism. That was sexism. Yeah.

Shakyra:

Because he he wanted to say that, but he just didn't wanna be like, oh, you know.

Elle:

I was your yes, and so was my dad, actually. Do you have any experiences that come to mind? Sexism? I'm I'm waving to Damonte not to. Not that I can think of on the top

Shakyra:

of my head. I mean, it probably a lot of things happened to me, but, you know, I was too young to understand them, and it probably just flew right over my head.

Elle:

There's also sexist microaggressions. This is a thing that happens quite frequently in corporate spaces. Even if the woman in the room is on par with men, they will still ask her to take notes during a meeting and not one of the men. Take notes yourself, Greg. That's just a random name.

Elle:

I don't know a Greg. Yeah. Have you can you think of ways that feminism has benefited you? Even if it's not your own active feminism.

Shakyra:

Well, I'm here today. Can we start there? I mean, I'm just saying, like, years ago I mean, not even that long ago, we couldn't be in places, you know, where everybody most people can be. You know? I mean, it's just like the surface level, honestly.

Shakyra:

And that's just really what I'm grateful for. So

Elle:

Yes. I can think of so many ways that feminism has benefited me, particularly in relationships I've developed with other women.

Shakyra:

About, like, the equal pay of the workspace, though?

Elle:

You was gonna say that? I literally was just thinking about the way it's No.

Shakyra:

Because I know I noticed us has been, like, a lot of, you know, like, conversations about that lately. So Well, for

Elle:

some things to talk about when talking about the wage gap. Oh my god. Did you see the tweet that said gender reveal? It's a piggy bank. If you smash it open and it's a boy, it's a dollar.

Elle:

And if it's 75¢, it's a woman or a girl. Well, could you know how people do gender reveals when they're pregnant? Yeah. How do you feel about that? I think gender reveals are cute.

Elle:

I don't think they should be their own party. That doesn't need to be

Shakyra:

separate from the baby shower. Me personally,

Anthony:

I'll be

Elle:

in the me either. Have them? It could be, that can be a activity in the baby shower. You don't need to have a general party and a

Shakyra:

baby shower. And a baby shower.

Elle:

Right? 2? It can

Anthony:

be No.

Shakyra:

You said the ingredient.

Anthony:

It but this is for my

Elle:

for my choir teacher, because she was pregnant. It was just like we opened a box and there were balloons. Like, it can be small. You don't need to be destroying the climate for a gender reveal.

Shakyra:

The smokes in the air

Elle:

and the fuck. There's a couple things

Shakyra:

I don't like about it.

Elle:

I mean, stuff. Sorry. I don't like about it. There is a real feeling that maybe the baby isn't the gender that you or the the sex. Sorry.

Elle:

That you might have hoped

Shakyra:

for. Yeah.

Elle:

And that can be a valid feeling. Don't get me wrong. If you have, like, 4 daughters and you might want a son Yeah. Like, you are not a terrible, wrong, awful person, mother or father, for wanting that. Sometimes, you know, seeing a man No.

Shakyra:

It just be the reactions.

Elle:

But is that really a reaction you want taped? And is that really a reaction? Like, imagine your

Shakyra:

child looking at it. I'm like I would be like, dang. They didn't want me for real.

Elle:

I don't want it's also a new phenomenon. Like my parents didn't have it. My parents didn't find out for all 3 of us, and I have 2 sisters. So I I don't personally I wouldn't want a gender reveal because I don't want it to influence what people buy me.

Shakyra:

Yeah.

Elle:

What what what are you buying for a baby girl that you're not buying for a baby boy? Mhmm. And also I

Shakyra:

think that's why more people is not having baby showers too. Like, they'd just rather buy it themselves. Also,

Elle:

I don't know that the assigned sex at birth of my child is going to align with the identity they construct for themselves in the future.

Shakyra:

And right. Exactly.

Elle:

If I'm like, oh, it's a girl. I'm so ecstatic. Because I do want

Shakyra:

Eloise I

Elle:

do want Eloise Frahm junior. But

Shakyra:

It's just like, how do you know

Elle:

How do I know that

Shakyra:

she wanna be

Elle:

She doesn't wanna be Elliot Frome Junior. Exactly. Exactly.

Shakyra:

Yeah. Or he

Elle:

in that case or whatever name Right. Or pronouns that my child, I would love them regardless.

Shakyra:

I'm a just tell listen. If I ever do decide to have kids, I'm a just tell my family, listen. It it's a child. There we go. A child.

Elle:

A baby is a baby.

Shakyra:

I'm just asking, like, what do you what do you think? The only There are.

Elle:

Truly, the difference is, are you gonna pee on me while I'm changing your diaper or not? And that's happened to

Shakyra:

me once. That's happened to me. Brother.

Elle:

That's happened to me. Terrible. It's happened to me with baby girls too. It just doesn't go everywhere.

Shakyra:

Yeah. Of course.

Elle:

So I wouldn't want the gifts that people buy me, and I wouldn't want the ways that they treat my child to be different. Like, I'm trying to think of the best way to say this. I, for the most part, wouldn't change much about my childhood. I'm very grateful to my parents, but I do wish that I hadn't been necessarily so strongly socialized to in a feminine manner manner. Like, we bought the toys that we wanted.

Elle:

My parents never said you can't play with this. We wanted dogs. We wanted things. But I had 2 sisters.

Shakyra:

Oh my gosh. I'm sorry. I'll be I am too. Mean to put my grandfather on blast. But You can talk.

Shakyra:

The whole toy situation you just said, my granddad, he had this whole ideology of, like, little girls shouldn't play with babe like, baby dolls and stuff like that because it it encouraged them to wanting to be a mother at a young age. Have you heard of that before?

Elle:

Well, that's the origin of Barbie. Oh. Because it was only like, if you've definitely seen references hate when he's seen

Shakyra:

that because it's just like it's just a freaking baby doll. Like, come on now.

Elle:

I I think everybody should be encouraged to play with baby dolls. I don't think it should be just girls. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. But I we we chose the toys we wanted, but I have 2 sisters.

Elle:

So I remember, like, there's a lot of movies I never saw as a kid. I didn't watch Toy Story. I never saw Cars because Toy Story Super movie. They were It's sad. Like, boy movies, quote unquote.

Shakyra:

Toy Story? Really?

Elle:

I never saw it as a kid. Or Or if I did, I don't remember. My parents watched this be like, girl, we put that on. But, like, I watched I've seen most Disney princess movies. I love Disney princess movies.

Elle:

I didn't really understand this until I was a bit older, and this

Shakyra:

is a topic for another time. Like, we have one Who's your favorite Disney princess, if you have one?

Elle:

I have a couple.

Shakyra:

I know.

Elle:

Okay. Visually, like, the animation and music, my favorite is Sleeping Beauty, but she has 18 minutes of screen time.

Shakyra:

That's true.

Elle:

But I love it. I think it looks so pretty. I I like the music in, I really love the message in Princess and the Frog about, like because it to me, it's kinda similar to the message in the Disney movie Soul, which is your life does not exist because you have some grand purpose or some skill or some talent or some dream of opening your own restaurant. Your life has meaning simply because it does. So when her dad was like when she's like, daddy never had his dream, and the mom's like, yes, he did.

Elle:

He had us. I think that's a really, really beautiful message. And the music in that movie, incredible.

Shakyra:

Well, going back I'm sorry. We gotta watch Tor's story because that's another one.

Elle:

Seen it.

Shakyra:

Oh, you've seen it already?

Elle:

I've seen

Shakyra:

it on TV. All of them?

Elle:

I haven't seen the most recent one because I don't

Shakyra:

wanna I'm sorry.

Elle:

And I'm not going to.

Shakyra:

I'm a film head, so, of course, I'm gonna be, like, yap a bunch of these.

Elle:

What's the one with the bear and they're holding hands going into the

Shakyra:

Toy Story 3.

Elle:

Toy Story 3 is one of the best movies ever made, truly. Yeah. So But Certainly back to

Shakyra:

the wage gap.

Elle:

The oh, wait. Anthony, how do you feel about

Shakyra:

the movie system? Been yapping it. No.

Elle:

No. No. How do you feel about like, do you you have a sister. Yeah?

Anthony:

Mhmm.

Elle:

Do you what movie what kinds of movies did you watch growing up and how do you think they impacted gender socialization for you?

Anthony:

We watched mostly the same movies, but if it was more, if it was more aimed to, a woman's audio or female audience, then I wasn't allowed, or I wasn't preferred to watch it. Like I was just telling my girlfriend last night that I wasn't allowed to really watch Spongebob, because they felt he was gay.

Elle:

He was what? Gay?

Anthony:

A sponge. And

Elle:

See this?

Anthony:

Like the that's the

Elle:

I can see if you lost your girl to a real

Anthony:

Like t I.

Elle:

Like 8. But Usher?

Anthony:

But Usher,

Elle:

I know if you're gonna say the

Anthony:

whole quote. But and

Elle:

then Well, I was gonna say the whole quote.

Anthony:

But no. I

Anthony:

I'm I'm

Anthony:

not messing with you this time. But, who was in Paris?

Shakyra:

Yeah. Who was in Paris?

Elle:

Beyonce's husband and an anti Semite. Next question.

Anthony:

She she ate that.

Anthony:

She ate that. And it was even bad to where my cousin, like, he would quite he would've I don't wanna word it. He would've get disciplined physically if he were to watch the Watch Spongebob.

Elle:

So just to physically discipline on the old.

Anthony:

To old. Me

Shakyra:

too. It never I don't know. It doesn't no. You do know.

Elle:

It's been scientifically proven to not be effective multiple, multiple times.

Shakyra:

Because guess what? I mean, I personally I'm sorry. This is, like, a whole different conversation.

Elle:

That's why we're here. Going deeper podcast. That's why we're here. Like, if you constantly keep hitting on

Shakyra:

the child, they're gonna keep doing whatever they because they gonna be accustomed to it.

Elle:

Like It's cyclical. I've seen if you've ever watched the TV show Super Nanny, she'll be like, I'll be like, that show is so good. I love her. I still follow her on Instagram. The, she says, like, I'm not doing her accent

Shakyra:

all the time.

Elle:

But she says she says, like, why do you, why do you, like, think it's okay to hit your children? And then they the a parent will say, well, my dad hit me. And then she goes, and what's your relationship like with your father?

Shakyra:

Exactly. And then it's Exactly.

Elle:

So it's also, like I said, it's just not effective. It's been scientifically proven. Spongebob? Because he was gay?

Anthony:

It don't make sense.

Elle:

I mean, to be fair, he never he never had hoes. But

Anthony:

because he was a sponge. Of course, he wouldn't have a hose.

Shakyra:

Right.

Elle:

Well, no. Some people

Anthony:

don't know. They didn't show

Elle:

that relationship.

Anthony:

No. I

Anthony:

thought that

Anthony:

was I'm sorry.

Anthony:

That was a free

Shakyra:

one. This is

Elle:

It's like 9 PM. Like, it's a long time. It is literally not It's 10 o'clock. PM. It's 10 o'clock.

Shakyra:

Come on out.

Elle:

But Then we're going to Mars.

Anthony:

Listen, back to back. Shout out Drake or shout out Drake depending on the content.

Elle:

Let's not shout out Drake, actually.

Anthony:

That's why. Mm-mm.

Anthony:

But his music shout out the artist. Or No.

Elle:

How embarrassing it is to have a boyfriend who has Drake in his Spotify rap? Fighting for my life in the group chat.

Anthony:

Music wise. Called your boyfriend. Oh. But, yeah. For the most part, like, we both watched Shrek or

Elle:

Oh, I love Shrek. I love Shrek.

Shakyra:

Shrek 2 is coming out again.

Elle:

Pixar and slash Dreamworks will always be better than Day to go. Yeah. I saw Coco always one of those

Anthony:

other people. Of the state newser. Are we the opinions of Elfram are only Elfram?

Elle:

For the most part. The opinions of Elfram

Anthony:

are Pixar better than Disney, and that's why. Because I disagree with Crosswounds.

Elle:

Animated children's movies only. Pixar is much better than Disney.

Anthony:

I mean, who got Princess and Frode? Who got

Anthony:

Lion King?

Shakyra:

Uh-uh. Yeah.

Elle:

But the Who got The Incredibles? Online.

Anthony:

But who

Elle:

got The Incredibles? Uh-uh. Who has Toy Story? Who has Coco?

Shakyra:

Who has Monster Inc?

Elle:

What's this?

Anthony:

I don't

Elle:

even know what that is.

Anthony:

I don't

Anthony:

know what mustard ink is.

Elle:

Oh, I thought you said mustard ink.

Shakyra:

Well, it's been real, you guys. It's too late. It's too late. Must

Elle:

Monster ink. I couldn't watch Monster. Monster Incorporated. I couldn't watch Monsters Inc because I'm scared of anything with more than 2 eyes. Oh.

Elle:

That's fair. I couldn't even watch Monsters University because that little guy, Squishy, the one who's not supposed to be scary. I was scared of him. That's fair.

Shakyra:

That's fair.

Elle:

I'm scared of things with some other guys. Also cicadas because my older sister used to pluck their shells off of trees and put them in my hair. Speaking of my older sister, I tell you, she recently told me about a new development in her, romantic relationship, and then she went, I love you. Or, like, hanging up the phone, like, after telling me about it, she goes, okay. Don't talk about this on your podcast.

Elle:

Love you. Bye. No way. But yeah. Spongebob is because he was gay?

Anthony:

It don't make sense.

Elle:

I knew people who weren't allowed to watch Spongebob because it's, like, the show's called bikini like, they live in bikini bottom, and they thought it was inappropriate. Yeah.

Anthony:

I've never

Shakyra:

I never heard of that,

Anthony:

but, you

Shakyra:

know, I just thought about is because they well, sexual jokes throughout the

Elle:

show and stuff like that. Yeah.

Anthony:

I never even heard that one either. Really? No. Some when I was talking to talking to my girlfriend about this, she was like, I mean, I've heard people not wanting their kids to watch Spongebob because it's dumb. And I'm like, you know, that makes a lot more

Shakyra:

sense. Yeah.

Anthony:

But I mean, even it's it's a sponge. Like, my opinion, it was similar to us. I think one of us said earlier of, like because we we had her end up getting a conversation of, like, how do I want a purpose? If, like, you know, when you hear people say if they play certain games, they go act a certain way? And I

Elle:

I have mixed feelings about that, but yeah.

Anthony:

I strongly, strongly, and I'll put one more strongly disagree with that, notion. But it got to the point of, like, that conversation of, like, Spongebob, for example. And, like, if, like, gay characters are in shows or whatever. And we both came to the conclusion of, like, it's gonna be similar to what we talked about. It's gonna be the real world anyway.

Anthony:

So it's a shunning kid away from me. You're not really you're kinda actually hurting them because they're not gonna know what they see

Anthony:

in the past.

Elle:

A few. Nickelodeon to bring it back to Legend of Korra. The reason that they didn't make Korrasami canon in the last episode, and despite the fact that they never kissed, literally, the last episode of Legend of Korra is just Asami and Korra holding hands, stepping into the spirit portal. There is nothing gay about that, but the that episode wasn't even aired on television. They aired it online

Shakyra:

because they

Elle:

were so scared. That.

Shakyra:

No. Like,

Elle:

less like They were so scared that 2 women holding hands was gonna make everybody watching a lesbian. Oh, wait. Actually, technically, Asama and Corey Asama Asami and Cora nailed it. Are both bi, so just sapphic. But like us, we are both bi too.

Elle:

We are.

Anthony:

There's a there's a running joke I have of ever since the conversation I have with, the people who were negative have the negative

Elle:

You have a really soft chance.

Shakyra:

Oh, thank you.

Anthony:

Of my belly button piercing. There's now a running joke I do where, like, every time I lift my shirt, like, oh, gay. Like, gay. Gay.

Anthony:

Because it's

Anthony:

not that deep. But

Shakyra:

Oh, man.

Anthony:

On the Going Deeper podcast, we talk about these things.

Elle:

Yeah.

Anthony:

Because I said deep, deeper. But,

Elle:

No. We got it, Anthony.

Anthony:

Okay. When there's when there's silence, I'll be like, okay. Either they didn't get the joke real quick. So I never know the difference.

Elle:

Option 3. It's late.

Anthony:

Option 3. But, have we hit everything?

Elle:

One final thing was just gonna be how does our ideas of femininity and womanhood relate to, what it relate to love and sex. Because even though I don't we don't construct the feminine identity in relation to men Mhmm. If those of us who identify as women who choose to take people who identify as men, it does affect our, the relate the the partners we choose. If you have a certain expectation of what it means to be a woman and, excuse me, the potential role you might wanna fill within a couple. Again, not everybody wants to get married, not everyone wants to have children, not everybody wants that life, and that's totally acceptable and fine.

Elle:

But since this is a love, usually romantic love and sex podcast

Shakyra:

I'm anti romance. Sorry.

Anthony:

Why are

Elle:

you here then?

Shakyra:

Y'all invited me here.

Elle:

I'm just kidding.

Shakyra:

In sense

Elle:

yeah. Like, if if you if your idea of womanhood and femininity is such that, I'm trying to think of the best way to say this. Like, you want more traditional gender roles, it's going to impact the partner you choose. Mhmm. So, like, for me, somebody whose identity is very rude or someone whose definition of being a woman is related to feminism, I could never be with somebody who wasn't a feminist.

Shakyra:

Who's not? Or

Elle:

Was becomes were in the hypothetical sense. Like, Beyonce says, if I were a boy. You like that song? I'll let that song. I love that song.

Shakyra:

Oh, they heard a tiara like a boy?

Elle:

Song? Yes. Did you see that women's dance team doing the performance of it after their oh, I'll show you later. Oh. Pull up.

Elle:

People are in it

Anthony:

just like

Elle:

Is that in your playlist? Yes. And it comes right before, Lizzo's like a girl.

Shakyra:

Nice. But yeah. I'm feeling

Elle:

like I just want a president.

Shakyra:

I don't wanna sit up

Elle:

with that. Of or the title for today's episode is I am woman, hear me roar like the Helen Reddy song. The numbers too big to ignore, and I know too much. I don't know. Really?

Anthony:

I don't either, but I I'm a jam with you.

Elle:

You should

Shakyra:

send it to me.

Elle:

I shall. Yeah. So, yeah. How how do our ideas of femininity relate to love and sex? Because I believe in equality of the sexes, which is

Shakyra:

Yeah.

Elle:

Why I was you know what? No. I can say something very graphic. This is a Love and Sex podcast. Don't date people who don't care about making you orgasm.

Shakyra:

Please don't. Oh.

Elle:

Like, I'm not talking about a one time thing, a first time thing. Brought

Shakyra:

that, like, war. Oh my gosh.

Elle:

I'm not talking about I'm sorry.

Shakyra:

No. I mean, I'm just being real.

Anthony:

Yeah. No.

Elle:

As you should be. Like, I'm not talking about a one time instance. I'm talking about somebody who does not care about your pleasure.

Anthony:

Yeah.

Elle:

Does not care about that equality. A jerk.

Shakyra:

Like, they just only care about theyself.

Anthony:

Like Like,

Elle:

do you ever think about how much how many fewer people would be on the planet if the female orgasm were necessary for procreation? Yeah.

Shakyra:

Mhmm. Unfortunate. Well, yeah, that's crazy.

Anthony:

Yeah. Just to piggyback off of that. I would go as far as to say that's a bad person. If you'd like a person who doesn't care about their partners or women's, orgasm or just their bodies in general when, doing sexual things, I would go as far as say that's a bad person. I hopefully don't gotta explain.

Anthony:

But

Elle:

If if that's like if there are people who are asexual who engage in sex for benefit of their partner Yeah.

Anthony:

Not count.

Elle:

If it's important to the woman or the the

Shakyra:

Mhmm. Hers? Assign

Elle:

Assign female at birth. Birth. Yes. Make it a priority. The you know, ladies first has many meanings.

Anthony:

Exactly.

Elle:

So,

Shakyra:

I think

Elle:

I think we we did it. You know? Happy I like being a woman. History month.

Shakyra:

I love being a woman.

Elle:

Happy women's history month.

Shakyra:

Even though the period sucks. But Well,

Elle:

not every woman has period.

Shakyra:

You're right.

Elle:

Like, it's not that's not even a cisgender thing. Like, Periods are just Why would

Shakyra:

you talk about menstrual? Post

Elle:

post puberty, premenopausal, cisgender women with regular menstrual cycles makes up way a way smaller percentage of those who identify as women than you might think. No. But that's real though. Mhmm. Ever since I've been going to pelvic floor therapy, I've had more regular periods, and I'm furious about it.

Elle:

I'm like, is this really worth it? I'll tell you guys about my pelvic floor therapy journey later. But, yeah, happy women's history month. Happy women's history. Happy belated international, Women's Day.

Shakyra:

Who won a row of girls as what Beyonce said.

Elle:

Let's think about all the women in places of the world who are subjected to, excuse me, sorry, very cruel standards who cannot get the help they deserve. Places like the occupied territories of Palestine, Sudan, the Congo, worldwide, problems like femicide, which are a problem everywhere, but Mexico, to name a few.

Shakyra:

The rare dress project?

Elle:

Yes. Check out the article. Was that Alex? No. It was Emily.

Anthony:

That was of Emilia.

Elle:

Emilia. Check out that article. It's worth it. Yeah.

Anthony:

And real quick, I wanna do a couple things. The second one won't really even relate to anything. But the first thing, I wanna say for assignment at birth, for people who, identify as men, to try our best to be more caring about these type of conversations because it's unfortunate the amount of men I can think of in my life who wouldn't care that as women's history month or don't care about certain things or how they speak to certain women, especially, unfortunately, certain black men. So just as a, just as a kind of like a PSA or just like a request if, to the men who will watch this, just care more. Because it goes a long way.

Elle:

For having this discussion with us.

Anthony:

I, just wanna do the best I can.

Shakyra:

The first step as a conversation. You know?

Anthony:

Actually. And the thing that doesn't even relate to this conversation is Shakyra. Could you give a shout out to your shirt? Like, what it means? Because I just find it really

Shakyra:

Well, it's, autism awareness. You know? Yeah.

Elle:

Does it say love needs no words? Yep. That's cute. I just saw an ad today from a woman with Down syndrome that

Shakyra:

Autism awareness. My point is that.

Elle:

I don't know. And be sure to support organizations that actually have autistic people on their board of directors and center autistic voices and not

Shakyra:

Oh, as much as autism poorly.

Elle:

Keep that in mind. Because not every organization that claims to exist for the benefit of autistic people, actually has autistic people on their board. Mhmm. And even, you know, I have mixed mixed feelings of person first language, but bear in mind that the idea of person first language or saying person with autism rather than autistic person did not come from an autistic person. It came from parents of autistic people who have a desire to separate the disease from their child.

Elle:

Mhmm. So Women's History Month, shout out to all the autistic women out there. Yeah. Anthony, you wanna do our outro?

Shakyra:

Oh, I cannot just say thank you for inviting me.

Elle:

Oh my god. Thank you Thank

Anthony:

you for coming. Coming.

Elle:

We love you.

Shakyra:

I love you after them. Sometimes. No. I'm just kidding.

Elle:

Sometimes in spring?

Anthony:

I'm just kidding. I'm

Elle:

just kidding. That and the fact that you said Method Man wasn't hot.

Shakyra:

Wait a minute. I didn't say he was not, but I I'm just saying,

Elle:

like, the

Shakyra:

whole I don't get the hype. Like, why I mean, I don't know.

Elle:

Like That's like me with Timothy Chalamet. I don't I just don't

Shakyra:

get it. Yeah. Like or Michael b Jordan.

Anthony:

I'm sorry. And with that being said, we're always we're always gonna take a DUI.

Shakyra:

Maybe I am a lesbian. Maybe I don't

Anthony:

We're always gonna take a DNI, but sometimes it's good to come up right

Elle:

here. This has been the Going Deeper podcast.

Anthony:

Thank you. And pretend like she ain't said that.

Shakyra:

Pretend she

Elle:

ain't said

Shakyra:

that. Listen.