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Every Tuesday on the CosmoFactory podcast: Discover the latest innovations along the cosmetics and personal care supply chain. Hear thought-provoking conversations with top beauty industry experts from around the world. Learn about next-level solutions and find inspiration to turn your own ideas into industry-changing innovations.
A PRODUCTION OF Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna
CosmoFactory is the first podcast from Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna—the most important beauty trade show in the world. Dedicated to all sectors of the industry, Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna welcomes over 250,000 visitors from 150 countries and regions and nearly 3,000 exhibitors to Bologna, Italy, each year. It’s where our diverse and international industry comes together to build business relationships and to discover the best brands and newest innovations across consumer beauty, professional beauty, and the entire supply chain. The trade show includes a robust program of exclusive educational content, featuring executives and key opinion leaders from every sector of the cosmetics, fragrance, and personal care industry. Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna is the most important event of the Cosmoprof international network, with exhibitions in Asia (Hong Kong), the US (Las Vegas and Miami), India (Mumbai) and Thailand (Bangkok). Thanks to its global exhibitions Cosmoprof connects a community of more than 500,000 beauty stakeholders and 10,000 companies from 190 countries and regions. Learn more today at Cosmoprof.com
CosmoFactory was co-developed in collaboration with supply-side expert Deanna Utroske, Host of the CosmoFactory podcast and Editor of the Beauty Insights newsletter.
Deanna: [00:00:00] This episode is all about packaging. We'll be talking about structural design, visual and tactical and practical design about sustainability, the intersection of engineering and marketing and much more with me today on the CosmoFactory podcast is Tommy Hammond, senior director of global package development and engineering at Revlon.
Deanna: Welcome.
Tommy: Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here with you.
Deanna: Yeah. Glad to have you. I'd love to get started just by learning more about that fancy title that you have. I'm [00:01:00] very impressed. Tell me about your responsibilities, the team you work with, maybe the other departments that you, um, are in touch with closely at Revlon.
Tommy: So currently today I oversee global package development and engineering, um, primarily spreads across skincare, fragrance, deodorant and promotions. I also dabble in a few other areas such as design to value, request for quotes from an engineering standpoint, and um, as well as like a change management team, so a team that manages bills and materials and specifications.
Tommy: So quite a wide range of categories and dynamics. Um, I definitely can't do this alone. Um, we are, you know, we have a great team at Revlon and it's what makes, you know, Our lives easier day by day and what really drives, uh, innovation.
Deanna: Excellent. Excellent. Help me think about maybe some of the titles that your, your closest colleagues have.
Deanna: What sort of partners are you talking [00:02:00] to daily, weekly, monthly? Who's in the game here?
Tommy: So, in this position, I mean, we're really working with, uh, with a wide range of people. Um, we work with design most closely. We're working with marketing. We're working with finance quality. Um, there is a, there is a wide range of people and it, it takes the full team to really bring a project to life.
Tommy: Um, and you're working with the different groups at different stages in the project. And having been through multiple projects, you learn where to engage and really, you know, utilize your, your, your resources.
Deanna: Yeah. Thank you for that. Wonderful. And as I understand your, your role, it really is, um, something that covers ideation, but then through to manufacturing and production.
Deanna: Um, and as everyone listening knows, we like to talk about ideas to innovation here on the CosmoFactory podcast. Can you share with us, um, maybe like a short case study that, um, encapsulates that idea? [00:03:00]
Tommy: Sure. So, um, I mean, when you mentioned a case study, the first thing that comes to mind is a challenge, right?
Tommy: And part of the reason why I love this job is that we are challenged day in and day out. So I had a particular project where we had to innovate and develop a brand new jar. And in that particular case study, it was something that was extremely difficult to do. It was something that nobody had done before and we wanted to be at the forefront of this innovation from a technical standpoint and just taking that opportunity to fail and learn, fail and learn is really what fueled the fire to fight and continue and making sure that we were able to bring this product to life.
Deanna: Yeah, excellent. Can you talk us through it in a little bit more detail? What was the original idea? And did you know it was a challenge when you first saw it?
Tommy: Um, I'll answer the 2nd part 1st, so I didn't think it was going to be as much of a challenge. I would say, yeah, um, then what it turned out to be, [00:04:00] but it was.
Tommy: Looking at a conventional jar, when we look at jars, we have threaded closures, we have snap fit closures, we have jars with living hinges that pop open. So we wanted to take this to a different angle and make it something that's, that swings. So the lid on the capsule jar would swing open as opposed to being threaded or popping open.
Tommy: And the reason why we wanted to do this is that it was for our capsules. So our capsules in particular, the beautiful thing about our capsules is that they're, they're very, Beautiful. And we want to showcase them. We want to make sure that they're at the focus and the forefront of what a consumer sees when they're on shelf.
Tommy: So we wanted to take this opportunity to innovate around a package that really showcases the beautiful capsules.
Deanna: Yeah. And I'm sorry, I think you showed me the jar that when we were doing a little preparation for this code, it was something you keep on your desk. You must be quite proud of it. But is it, is it a glass piece or is it a particular type of plastic?
Tommy: It's a particular [00:05:00] type of plastic. Um, so I would love for it to be made out of glass, but unfortunately, you know, given the engineering capabilities, we wouldn't be able to make it out of glass. It's an elegant thick walled piece of plastic that almost kind of resembles glass and it really helps showcase the beautiful capsules.
Deanna: And tell us more about some of the challenges and, and how you overcame them or like, yeah, just sort of kept persevering to make it happen instead of saying like, nevermind, let's try, you know, obviously someone else has created a clear jar, right. For showcasing beautiful product in the past, you've probably done it many times, but help, help me think about why you persisted on this and how you, how you managed to do that with your team.
Tommy: I would say we, we persisted because we failed, but we, we never lost sight of our North Star. We never lost sight of what we thought this jar could be. Um, And the beautiful thing about building a unit tool right and having the time to learn and to fail is that [00:06:00] you can do it in a way where you're not, you're not disturbing your production tool, you're not disturbing your production timing.
Tommy: We really had the time to innovate and really test and learn. And that's what the unit tool allowed us to do is that we were able to. Learn from every time we made a change, learn from every time we made a mistake. And then in that next opportunity, we were allowed to take it one step forward. And each time that we were able to take it one step forward, we saw that little bit of light at the end of the tunnel coming true.
Tommy: And that was kind of our. That was our inspiration to keep going and to keep this moving, because while we may have failed with one opportunity, we saw another one arise. So we just kept that as fuel to the fire to keep moving forward.
Deanna: Yeah, no, that's excellent. I like that a lot. I want to think a little bit.
Deanna: About your background. I know you have a degree in mechanical engineering as well as a degree from the fashion Institute of technology. Um, I find this [00:07:00] intriguing. So if you could just tell us a little bit about your education and how it informs your work today.
Tommy: Sure. So I have a mechanical engineering degree.
Tommy: From the University of Rhode Island. Um, I knew that going into school or even before school, I knew I loved understanding how things worked. I loved the mechanical aspects of how things fit together, why engines ran. I mean, for me, that's what fueled my, my engineering, you know, desire. I, I had a, also had a passion for aeronautical engineering, but I didn't necessarily want to live in the Midwest or live in Seattle or wherever it may be.
Tommy: But I thought that mechanical engineering is the best way to have kind of a, a overarching view of engineering, right. And it makes, it's kind of a very well rounded type of engineering degree that can be utilized in many different ways. So I thought that was, um, a great, you know, a great field to start with.
Tommy: And After I [00:08:00] graduated, I, I told myself, I was like, Oh, I don't know if I'll ever go back to school. You know, I may be, I may be done, which I'm sure many people do. And then, um, it was about seven, about seven years later, I had the opportunity to enroll in FITs, Cosmetic Fragrance Marketing and Management Program.
Tommy: Um, And I was like, okay, well, I've been in, I've been in the cosmetic cosmetic industry for six to seven years. Now, this is an absolute great time. Now, if I plan to stay in this industry, which I absolutely do to start to get a more well rounded view of cosmetics. I had the engineering. Right. The engineering and, um, the package development side and view.
Tommy: I didn't necessarily have that understanding or that, that viewpoint into marketing or into finance or into some design aspects. So that's what the program enabled me to do is to sort of get that overarching view of the [00:09:00] cosmetic industry in different areas. And, um, I took that opportunity around with it.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. Can you help me understand how it actually changed your work to understand maybe cosmetic marketing or some of the other, you know, things that you really picked up? I know it's a, it's, it's an impressive program, so I know you studied hard. I'd love to know how it changed what you do. It
Tommy: gave me a new perspective on how we operate and why we operate.
Tommy: It also gave me a perspective into challenging status quo. Um, so having been through their programming, understanding how they go to market and the 360 marketing campaigns and touch points on different devices and how everything must be consistent and that the consumer must be at the forefront. I mean, Maybe subconsciously, I knew this information, but the program really allowed me to have that that experience to it.
Tommy: And when I encounter on a day to day, I think healthy collaboration, healthy challenges is a way of the workplace and that [00:10:00] we need to. You know, we need to challenge each other because more heads are better than one and we can, you know, we can really make this, this industry a better place by challenging each other and having different views and different, you know, different ways of looking at bringing things to life.
Tommy: And that's what the program I would say mostly helped me with.
Deanna: Yeah, no, it's interesting to hear you say it that way because, you know, I often get to. Watch the capstone presentations from FIT each year, which are always, um, you know, very future forward and very compelling. And I think one of the things that is so interesting is that it really brings together.
Deanna: As you said, you were already working in the cosmetics and personal care industry. You had an expertise in packaging design and engineering, but it brings people together, not only with different skill sets, but people from all the different companies, right. Of every size, whether they're the multinationals or the, um, you know, smaller Smaller companies led by, you know, investment companies or even founders.
Deanna: And it really speaks to the collaboration in our industry as much, you know, we think so [00:11:00] much about beauty being a highly competitive marketplace, but there is a lot of, you said, you know, putting more heads together. It's really valuable, isn't it?
Tommy: It's such an interesting point that you bring that up because I think that is probably one of the best things about the program is that the program Um, cherry picks people from cherry picks peoples from different, different functions, right?
Tommy: And you have people in the program that are in marketing, people that are in finance, people that are in different, different areas and being in group projects and group settings where you have to solve problems and present. I mean, It's really eye opening to see how different people operate. And one of the challenges is in the program is like, okay, yeah, I might understand that, but then you come around to another project, you're like, okay, this makes no sense to me and I'm completely learning here.
Tommy: Um, but someone else's that's their forte, you know? So, um, it was, it was great. It was a great experience.
Deanna: Thank you for sharing that. I love it. Um, so let's go back to being a specialist. [00:12:00] Now, if we can, um, talk us through really the different stages of design development and production. Um, again, you know, we did have a preparation call and you did an excellent job of really outlining your full, um, work for me.
Deanna: And I would love to hear that. Um, because I think It's so easy to think of packaging. Okay, great. We're going to put a product in that and then close the lid and off it goes. But it's, it's a very intensive process. Can you talk us through, um, talk us through your work a bit more?
Tommy: Sure. Um, this is probably one of my favorite aspects of, of the job because you get to see the process from the beginning through the end.
Tommy: So when a new project Comes or a new idea comes down the path. Um, I mean, I don't think that there's one size shoe that fits all right. Everything has a different twist and turn. And generally when you start a project, you start in this ideation phase or this concept phase where it's really pen to paper, what you want to do, what market you want to go after, what are your [00:13:00] claims?
Tommy: What do you want the packaging to be? So there's a lot of juices flowing in this, in this stage. Um, And preliminarily you're working, of course, with marketing, you're working with design and your cross functional team members to put this idea, um, in a more conceptualized phase that you can start to bring through a gate process.
Tommy: And from there, we, we really move into like this mobilization phase where the idea or the concept has been formalized. And now we're going to start to use some of the resources to go and make this, this idea come to life. And in that first phase, that's where we're working on grounding exactly what the packaging is going to be.
Tommy: The sustainability. Is it a custom package? Is it a stock package? Is it something that's stock and that we're going to modify slightly to make it, to make it our own? Um, And you, you take this idea and you can start to build rapid prototypes, which is, you know, printed layers of plastic. There's a, there's a couple of different [00:14:00] forms of getting this, but you start to work with these rapids where you're taking this idea from a two dimensional drawing and bringing it to something that's three dimensional.
Tommy: Um, and in the same stage, you're also working with your design folks who may be. comping, um, which is bringing, you know, realism to exactly what you want this, this object or this, this package to be. And from there, you're making subtle tweets. It's more of like an iterative process. So you're working with your cross functional teams.
Tommy: Oh, maybe I want to make a tweak here. I want to change this there. You're working with your manufacturing teams to make sure that it's manufactural because in the end we have to design with. Something that can be made, um, easily and economically. So we're working with our manufacturing teams to make sure that all the different pieces of the puzzles or pieces of the puzzle are coming together.
Tommy: Once everybody's happy with that, then we'll probably scale up to what's called a unit tool phase, where we'll build a single cavity. We will, [00:15:00] um, we will bring it to life. In an industrialized sense, I would say, help me think about that
Deanna: more, because I think there, as I understand it, and I'm still learning, but there are quite a few different types of tools that can be developed, right?
Deanna: Sometimes it's a mold, right? And then you fill it and create something. What other sorts of tools might you have to engineer for a new package design?
Tommy: So, I mean, it's really, you know, a mold, uh, injection mold, um, or, you know, if you're working with glass, it's glass, a glass mold. But you have to keep in mind, there's other types of things that.
Tommy: Are needed to bring something to life. So you may need pups for a filling line. You may need change parts for a filling line. So you have to keep everything in mind or the, you know, the entire development on manufacturing process of a new item you're looking to bring to market in mind.
Deanna: Excellent. So what, what happens next?
Deanna: How do you scale up to production then?
Tommy: So once you, once you build a unit tool and you, [00:16:00] you are happy with the way that unit tool is producing samples, it's going to be a limited number of samples. You'll then take that as concrete information that, okay, now I can really industrialize this on a, on a serious scale where I can produce tens of thousands of pieces.
Tommy: And we'll scale up to a production tool, which is usually multiple cavities. Um, It obviously depends on the output you're looking for, but you'll then take that unit tool or that pilot tool phase and scale up to a production tool.
Deanna: And how many, how many cavities is typical? Like, are you, you know, five at a time or 500 at a time?
Tommy: It really varies on what you're looking to do, the size of the part, what you're looking to mold. Um, generally you're probably going to on smaller scale, four cavity, eight cavity. Yeah. But you can go 16, 32, 64. And every time, you know, you increase the cavitation, you're obviously making more parts in one shot.
Tommy: So it's advantageous, um, [00:17:00] to produce this way, but there's also scale of economy and, you know, the cost of a high cavitation tool versus low cavitation, how many pieces there's, there's many equations you have to run through to figure out what's the optimal run rate for me and cost.
Deanna: Right. Right. That's so interesting because I feel like at that point, right?
Deanna: You're are you almost like projecting consumer demand?
Tommy: Well, you have to start the project with consumer demand. You have to get an understanding of Of what your annual quantities are going to be. I mean, you want to also set yourself up for success, right? Because you don't want to launch something that takes off like wildfire and then you can't meet consumer demand.
Tommy: You have to make sure that you give yourself headspace. You understand how the market is going to react and start to work and build tools and capacity and manufacturing consistent or in line with what you plan to execute in market.
Deanna: Yeah, yeah. Uh, and I, I know too, that, you know, [00:18:00] once you start to manufacture, you know, you're working with a lot of different things.
Deanna: You've, you've, you're trying to align with the budget. You're trying to meet, you know, certain deadlines throughout the team. Um, I'm wondering, help me think a little bit about sort of the other components involved though. What about, you know, closures and dispensers? How, how are those built into the engineering process?
Tommy: So it all, it all goes hand in hand. I mean, you always start with your, your primary first, because that's going to be your longest lead time and your more complex, um, challenges up front. So everything developed for the primary really comes first. Um, and from an engineering standpoint, you're engineering your bottle, your closure at the same time you are with.
Tommy: Um, other components for the primary, because from an engineering perspective, everything has to mate and work together. Um, you can't start with your bottle and then later say, Oh, I want this to cap. You have to do it all at the same time.
Deanna: Sure. Sure. That makes good sense. And help me think a little bit [00:19:00] then about labeling and decoration.
Deanna: Maybe the, you know, the texture of a, of a finished bottle or something. When does that come into play?
Tommy: Um, it comes into play upfront because you have to make sure that the materials you're working with can also accept that type of decoration. Sure. Um, but above and beyond that, I mean, cost first and foremost, customer appeal, shelf presence, line consistency.
Tommy: There's a whole series of complex equations that going into making sure that you're using the right decoration. And then on top of that, when, even when you select your decoration, We still go through a rigorous process in ensuring that the Deco doesn't scuff, that it doesn't come off in transit, that when formula is applied to the Deco, that the Deco doesn't remove.
Tommy: So it's not to say that, oh, we just want to silkscreen something or spray something, that that's going to be the final Deco process. It's that we're making sure that we're making quality products and quality products that leave the door and have That [00:20:00] high and that we're delivering on our consumers expectation that we are making high quality products.
Deanna: So I think that's a really good point to bring up. Um, help me think a little bit about, um, What I believe we call category relevance. What are some of the similarities or differences among packaging? I think you said you take care of skin care, fragrance, deodorant. Are these purely like, um, a sort of, you know, almost like, I don't know, consumer behavior signals?
Deanna: Like we look at something and we know, oh, that's a laundry product because it's in a bottle shaped like this. Or are there other considerations?
Tommy: I mean, I think there's other considerations and, and each respective area definitely has its uniqueness, but then there are definitely similarities amongst, you know, amongst the three or skin fragrance and even color cosmetics.
Tommy: Um, I mean, similarities, you're, you're thinking about materials you're working with, you're thinking about one of the, one of the. Phrases that I love is designing with the end in mind, right? So [00:21:00] whether I'm building a fragrance or I'm building a skincare product, thinking about how the consumer is going to dispose of this later on, once they're finished with the product or how the consumer may refill this product.
Tommy: Um, so. I think that's some similarities you can find between skincare and fragrances and making sure that you're being good corporate citizens and that you are, you know, thinking about the future of the planet and the future of where we, you know, where we will develop.
Deanna: Excellent. And I know Revlon, you know, like all the multinationals makes what we think of as global products, right?
Deanna: Really taking the nuances and challenges, um, that go into maybe global brand harmony, into consideration. Help me think about, um, globally compliant packaging. What does that mean? What does that look like for someone in your role?
Tommy: Globally compliant packaging is, is, um, I would say it's more of a focus now.
Tommy: Um, as you mentioned, global products are exactly what they say. They're products that are sold around the [00:22:00] world. And when you sell products around the world, you have to make sure that you meet global regulations or local regulations. And. You know, we have a very strong regulatory team that's constantly looking and listening for all of the different regulations that may be popping up.
Tommy: And I would say, obviously in the last couple of years, this has become more and more apparent with packaging and making sure that we're using the right materials. I mean, generally, even before the regulations pop up, we are ahead of the game because we don't want to work with plastics or materials that are going to be harmful to consumers or to the planet.
Tommy: So we, we tried to keep that. always in mind in the forefront of developing and making sure that we're delivering on design, but also delivering on, on using the right materials for the job. Um, so when you, when you develop global products, you really have to work with your, your internal partners to make sure that you're meeting all regulations and developing products that satisfy the market needs of all the different places you plan to put this product.[00:23:00]
Deanna: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Very good. And I know you've touched on sustainability a few times. And as an industry, I think we're making, we're making some real progress in terms of sustainable packaging. But in my view, it's very much a group effort, right? We need involvement from everyone who touches the product, whether it's sourcing, production, manufacturing, logistics, right?
Deanna: Retail, consumers, consumers. As well. And then waste management gets into the equation too. But can you talk a little bit further about what sustainability looks like at Revlon as it pertains to your work?
Tommy: Sure. So, I mean, I mentioned this a few minutes ago, but first and foremost, designing with the end in mind, I think that is super important.
Tommy: Um, ensuring that you can separate materials and dispose of materials properly, and you can put them into the site, into the correct, you know, waste streams is super important to me and to the organization. Um, As we spoke about global products, it's also a challenge in and of itself as well because there's different countries, different regulations, different, [00:24:00] um, different counties.
Tommy: Everybody has their own, their own way to attach, to attack sustainability and recycling. So we have to keep that in mind. And I think one of the best ways to do that is making sure that you can separate components at the end of their life. You can refill components at the end of their life. To make sure that you're, you're reducing impact on people buying, you know, completely new, you know, that they're refilling exactly what they have.
Tommy: We can work with recycled materials or upcycled chemicals or upcycled raw materials to making sure that we're reducing our footprint. You work with manufacturing to cut down on water or energy or excess componentry or oversizing. So there's a lot of different angles you can take for sustainability.
Tommy: And I don't know if. If there's one person who has completely, completely solved this, or one company that's completely solved this, but I agree with your statement that it really takes all of us to take a look in a deep, you know, a deep look inside to make sure that we're [00:25:00] doing the best we can and be the best corporate citizens we can.
Tommy: Yeah.
Deanna: And your, your comment about making packaging deconstructible, um, I think is, is well made because that is what it's often coming down to. And. As you mentioned to write different municipalities, even within a given state in the U. S. Um, you know, within a given country for sure. But then country to country, right?
Deanna: Everyone is managing their way streams quite differently. It's it's really amazing. Can you talk it. At all about how that concept of like making a packaging so it can be deconstructed by the consumer, has that, um, impacted your design, um, over the, over the past years?
Tommy: It, it's definitely impacted the design, but it takes all of us, because you can see our suppliers are also thinking about this, right?
Tommy: So it's really a bunch of us working together and saying, okay, maybe I wanna be able to separate this pump from this fragrance bottle so that I can put the glass and the glass waste [00:26:00] stream and the, and the. Plastics and the aluminums in this way stream. Um, so it really takes all of us and yes, there is some impact on design, but we're also bringing those designers along with us and making sure that we're capturing exactly what we're, what we want to do and where we want to go and where we want to be and making sure that everyone is, is on board with this concept and, and they are, because this is the way of the future.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. And it's great. You touched on your suppliers. In that reply, and I'd love to hear more about the sort of suppliers and manufacturers you work with, maybe what their specialties are, but also what makes them, you know, a really good partner fit. How do you, how do you know this is someone you want to team up with or not?
Tommy: Um, it's a good question. I think it's a multi prong approach. So. From a, from a sustainability standpoint, I mean, our suppliers are also living and breathing exactly what we're going through and what we're dealing with. So they're seeing the regulations. They're working with multiple suppliers on regulations, making sure that the packaging [00:27:00] that they're developing at the same time is compliant.
Tommy: They're also thinking about sustainability, working with monomaterials, if we can work with something that's monomaterial, because it's a easier way to recycle. But when it comes to suppliers being true partners, I truly believe in a 50 50 partnership. Um, we both have to live in this world, you know, we both have to work together, and it's a true collaboration, and you know, Different suppliers have different niches.
Tommy: Um, you know, and they, they specialize in some areas versus others. And what makes them a good fit is that there's a give and take, you know, there's situations where I may need help. There's situations where they may need help. And it's really the collaboration between the two of us in bringing something to life that, that makes it all the worthwhile.
Deanna: Yeah, yeah, and I imagine that's, you know, some of that's in person collaboration, but a lot of that is remote collaboration and, you know, [00:28:00] virtual interactions or, um, yeah, that it's, it's very complex, isn't it?
Tommy: It isn't, you know, packaging is, is a world that's very visual. Right. So. I mean, you can do some of this collaboration, of course, through, you know, through the virtual world, whether it's Webex or zoom or whatever it may be, but there's still a visual element to get of it where you need to get together.
Tommy: You need to collaborate and make suggestions and, oh, I can optimize here or I can change this and make, make this run more efficiently. So it's really that it's really that collaboration of getting together and putting 2 heads together that we're. Where we can work together and, you know, really, really bring something to life.
Tommy: That's fantastic.
Deanna: Yeah, no, that's so cool. And I was thinking, Tommy, I think you and I first met at Cosmoprof Worldwide Bologna, and maybe it was just last year in 2023. Does that sound true? It was.
Tommy: Yes, yes, yes.
Deanna: It's so hard to keep track of time. And then you and I were at Cosmoprof in Las Vegas in the U. S.[00:29:00]
Deanna: later that year. I'm wondering, If you can tell me what why does your job bring you to a show like that? Like, what are you doing when you visit? I think it would probably be the Cosmopack section of the show where there's the packaging and manufacturing and ingredients and so on. What are you doing there?
Tommy: Um, so it's, it's, I'm going to the shows for multiple reasons. Yeah, I'd say the first and foremost, the number one reason is inspiration. Right. You want to go there and be inspired, not just by what other people are doing in packaging, but what are other brands doing? What are other companies doing? What are other commodities doing?
Tommy: Um, it may not just necessarily be a, you know, a cosmetic show, but it could also be other shows outside of cosmetics, which, which you get. Inspiration from, um, secondly, when you're at one of these shows, you start to look for common themes. What are suppliers doing? What's what's consistent among them? Are they working with, you know, the same [00:30:00] material?
Tommy: Are they innovating on the same material? Are they working off the same trends? And that's where you start to get your juices flowing, your ideas going. But also, I mean, for instance, you look at opportunities that you may not think exist. Um, you know, for instance, champagne labels, I mean, labels that go on champagne are very high end labels.
Tommy: Um, and you, you don't, you may not necessarily think, Oh, how can I take that and translate that into fragrances? But there are ways to do this where maybe I don't need to tool something. Maybe I just need a very high end label to deliver on exactly what I'm looking for. Um, so it's really this, This idea of inspiration, but it's also about collaborating and about a presence of, of being with the suppliers and the people you work with day in, day out and showing that we're engaged.
Tommy: We're serious. We mean business. We want to be here and we want to partner and we want to be at the forefront of innovation.
Deanna: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Thank you. What else should we be talking about in terms of package engineering? Are there, are there things we [00:31:00] didn't cover?
Tommy: I mean, for me, the, I guess the, the, the big picture is really taking something from an idea and seeing it all the way through manufacturing.
Tommy: I mean, that's the most rewarding part of my job is that you get to take something from this idea or concept and at the end, you get to say, wow. We made this. We brought this to life. Um, and then even more. So what I love to do is after we launch something, I love to go and look online and read comments, read comments about what people say, um, and you know what they do and don't like.
Tommy: And, you know, you always, of course, hope that it's something that they, that they love, but you have to also understand where people don't like, or may like a change in something. And. Learn from that because that's what we're all have to do is we all have to self reflect. We all have to learn. We all have to, um, take that opportunity to make us better in the next time we, we engage or do [00:32:00] something.
Tommy: So, um, I love to read, I love to read comments about what, you know, about how a product is doing.
Deanna: Yeah, that's fantastic. We, we often say in beauty, right, that it sort of touches everyone's lives, but you, you can really see that and you can see to like, For everyone involved, right? You know, you're a packaging engineer and you can literally go online and see reviews or even I'm sure if you were in store, you know, observe customers interacting with the product in a way that has like, it really has meaning.
Deanna: That's, it's so interesting. Yeah, that's so fantastic.
Tommy: Going on like store tours. Go on a store tour. Go to where the product is sold. Go look at where you're, you know, what your competitors are doing and get that feel of how it's out there. Um, I mean, I think, you know, you may not always get that sitting behind a desk or sitting in an office.
Tommy: You have to get out there. You have to experience this. You have to be at line trials. You have to be at, you have to [00:33:00] be at, Um, the manufacturing of a product, you really have to immerse yourself in the full, you know, the concept all the way through it out on store.
Deanna: Yeah, no, that's great. I love it. It just feels like a big conversation, right?
Deanna: From behind the scenes and then into the consumer's real life. That's fantastic. I love it. Well, Tommy, this was delightfully informative. I must say, I thank you for joining me today on the CosmoFactory podcast.
Tommy: Thank you so much. I mean, it's been a pleasure and it's always nice to chat with you. [00:34:00]