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“Words of Wisdom” is an initiative to document and celebrate the stories, insights, and wisdom of Singapore’s senior citizens. It's powered by Folklory, a service dedicated to preserving stories through audio podcasts, who will collaborate with 60 seniors aged 60 and above to create a series of 60 podcasts, each capturing a unique slice of Singapore’s rich history and culture. Find out more info at Folklory.com
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:24:04
Unknown
Hello there. This is Terence from folkloric. What you're about to listen to is a podcast from the Words of Wisdom Project, where we spoke to 60 Singaporeans over the age of 64 to 60 and captured their life lessons for the next generation. We hope you enjoy it.
00:00:24:06 - 00:00:44:15
Unknown
And we're here today to do this for you with Kelvin. And maybe the best way we can start Kelvin, is for you to just give us a brief introduction of yourself and what you do. Yes. My name is Kelvin. I'm going to be 61 this year in August, and actually, I'm an act as lecturer. I was teaching in La Salle for quite some time, but now I'm.
00:00:44:17 - 00:01:17:17
Unknown
I'm freelancing and I'm doing a small course on assignment in Neon Polytechnic. I also play music and I write, and I, I play a band called The Odd Fellows and be a about a music scene for some time since the 80s. And, we continue to do that. So I'm busy a I think the good way to define myself would be I'm just somebody who's, a creative being who sees creativity in everything, not just in arts, but in living and in, in living and in being a human being.
00:01:17:19 - 00:01:39:24
Unknown
So I think you, you've definitely have your place in Singapore's music history. Right. But maybe you can take us back to the start of what got you into the music scene in the first place in Singapore. Okay. I don't think okay. One thing I say is that, I don't think anybody really knows when they're young what they want to do, and and I'm one of them.
00:01:39:24 - 00:02:06:03
Unknown
And, you know, always felt like a real outsider in, in Singapore and didn't fit into anywhere. And I think the only time they started to know about me, what maybe I wanted to do was, yeah, in secondary history when, you know, because when I was in secondary school, punk music just came in, you know, punk music and new wave and, the Sex Pistols, the Buzzcocks, the clash had come in and and the first time I heard them with my, my fellow schoolmates.
00:02:06:05 - 00:02:33:03
Unknown
Was just transformed like I never knew. A musical so intense and so energetic and so full of life. Because back then, in Singapore, in the 70s, it would've been like, the time where Mr. Mentor Lee Kuan Yew was a prime minister. So everything was rather strict and and regimented. So suddenly this music fit me in. I just had this hint that I wanted to maybe do something like this, maybe not play music, but just write about it or something, because I'm always like, writing.
00:02:33:09 - 00:02:51:19
Unknown
And then, later on, I, I got on the what's known as a singer songwriter free, visa. I, you know, because at that time there were musicians like James Taylor, Jackson Browne and people like that who would who use political lyrics and melodies. And so that was where I started, realized, push myself to get the and play music and all that.
00:02:51:21 - 00:03:16:13
Unknown
So I started, you know, going, doing a lot of gigs, playing, doing covers all these songs and then and, and then in 19, 91 or 92 that you can ask me to join in on Fela. So that's how I joined the band. And so the beanstalk and all stuff. So that has evolved. My love of music has evolved, and, I start to become, I start to love all white genres of music.
00:03:16:15 - 00:03:46:05
Unknown
Whereas jazz or avant garde or folk music goes, I like a lot of the new music today, for example, and I'm also a writer, so I, I actually written two novels, in the past few, decades. And, but I don't write anymore. I think, I, I see music more as my vocation. So I think it's this sense of, trying to look for meaning in my life, and more importantly is to, to to discover a sense of individuality, of who I really am.
00:03:46:07 - 00:04:14:14
Unknown
And I think that led me not just to to to music and literature, but also led me to philosophy and, and from there I started to evolve, involving more into a certain individualism, which I am today. And I'm still continuing to evolve, if all this makes sense. No, I mean is super interesting. I did want to go back to something you mentioned earlier where, you know, the climate in Singapore was very different back then, you know, compared to Nola.
00:04:14:16 - 00:04:33:16
Unknown
Yeah. What did it feel like being part of that, that that scene of, you know, going against the grain and, and being very into things like punk music, which, you know, I'm sure back then in Singapore, like all the parents and all that frowned upon. Yeah. When kids were getting to that, how did that feel? Yeah.
00:04:33:18 - 00:04:50:21
Unknown
The interesting thing about the growing up in the 70s for me is that, you know, so listen to a punk music. But then you also on the background had disco, you know, you know, it's funny, you get disco and then you get all these, like, sappy kind of pop music, you know? So you exposed the carpenters, you know, so you exposed to all that music.
00:04:50:23 - 00:05:06:18
Unknown
But the thing, the thing is that, at that time, let me give you an idea. When I was in primary school, I remember I don't know whether you heard of this story, but, I mean, I mean, you had science going on the wall going something like, you know, if you get long hair, you couldn't buy stamps at the post office, for example.
00:05:06:18 - 00:05:35:07
Unknown
Yeah. And then the standard rules for how hair should be cut, I think is a very interesting, metaphor for the, the times, as in you're trying to control the mob, you know, you're trying to symbolize the mobs or national service and all that. And then every one of us had to follow a certain regime. So the reason why I'm telling you all this there is, is that this contrast to punk music was just such an incredible, breath of new life to me.
00:05:35:07 - 00:05:55:12
Unknown
You know, because I never thought that that was possible. You know, that was about what I never thought that I could write about. You know, I could be rebellious. I could write about rebellion. So in the 1980s, when Joy Division came out, you know, of course, and then you had all these other bands coming out. I mean, there was like a real explosion for, for for me, like there on the other hand, this LED Zeppelin.
00:05:55:14 - 00:06:15:06
Unknown
So the whole freedom of artistic expression was there for me. But then at the same time, you're living in a country where regimentation was so strong, you know, that the underground Rolling Stones were banned from Singapore. You know, you couldn't get a copy of the first view album. So that caused you to have this, you know, it's a part of you that that feels a lot of your country.
00:06:15:06 - 00:06:40:16
Unknown
That's where you come from, that's where your roots. But at the same time, you're kind of angry that you're not able to be who you are at the same time. So I would think that that in a way caused me to evolve to who I am today. Somebody who I mean, who still follows the rules in Singapore. By the same time, I have my own fiercely individual ideas about what life my life should be, what society should be, if that makes sense.
00:06:40:18 - 00:06:58:16
Unknown
So. But it was really tough and very regimented that way. But then of course, it was a good time. So I think there were little things that didn't meet your meet your life happy, but, you know, you was not, alone enough to suffice for what I needed in my life, existentially, you know, in my soul.
00:06:58:16 - 00:07:16:12
Unknown
So I think that's why I decided to make my life, teaching about the arts and teaching art. Because I feel that it's something that can really transform society and, and really feel people's souls. And in fact, to be honest, you know, Dennis, I think it's more important to remember, but we are still lacking it. I think.
00:07:16:14 - 00:07:41:02
Unknown
Sure, sure. I do want to definitely talk about how you got into teaching, but but in terms of music, there were also moments where you, you know, did quite groundbreaking things like performing in North Korea, for example, if you talk a little bit about, that experience of performing overseas and what if what it felt like getting out Singapore and, and getting a music out there as well?
00:07:41:04 - 00:07:57:07
Unknown
Well, to be honest, you I'm mostly a homeboy. You know, the odd fellas you never really thought overseas. So I'm usually, here. And I think that's one reasons why I don't get that much acclaim and support. I mean, I have to say that The Straits Times have been incredible support, somewhat of who I am as a musician.
00:07:57:07 - 00:08:20:21
Unknown
So if you Google my name and as you said, it's a lot of articles for me. So I'm very grateful to them and also to some local, publications. But I just never journey, so I just need to go over and perform. And, so I'm busy here, and I think that's why I don't get that much traction as I, I guess maybe I should, but it doesn't bother me because to me, that's not why I do music, and that's not why I make art.
00:08:20:22 - 00:08:50:19
Unknown
I do it for my own personal soul and for my own personal satisfaction. But what happened was that in the 90s, around 97 or 98, I was also writing plays, or so I've been I've been writing books and I've been a playwright. And in I've also been doing all these little side projects. And what happens was, for some strange reason, I was in this company, called up or a society, which I found out with one, and we were like, like I would say the enfants terribles of the drama scene, just in a mix of any group and all that.
00:08:50:19 - 00:09:12:21
Unknown
But for some strange reason, one day I got a letter from the Ministry, the, the, the North Korean, consulate inviting us to play, you know, play in the spring Art Festival. I don't know why. It was very strange. So what you do is that, I have to pay for my flight to Beijing, and it'll pick me up from Beijing to Pyongyang.
00:09:12:23 - 00:09:36:11
Unknown
And and then it was a two and a half week festival in Pyongyang. So I was there for two and a half weeks, and I can tell you that there is after I came back from there, two and a half. I mean, it changed my life forever, I guess, while everywhere I go. I remember when I was a teenager, one of yesterday's speeches, prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew then say something like, you know, a hippie in Singapore.
00:09:36:13 - 00:09:52:21
Unknown
Let me suggest that you go to China or some part, you know, some country that's very restricted. And see for yourself. So, you know, when you're a kid, right? Especially listening to the Sex Pistols and thinking, oh, no, again, you know, the nanny state kind of speech. But anyway, they went over to North Korea for two and a half weeks.
00:09:53:00 - 00:10:14:10
Unknown
Dude, it was like, wow, man. I mean, I think you and I could have, tea for hours. And again, I just can't stop telling my stories, but it really was, it really was an eye opener because your your your you really are going into a truly stale in this country, I think is probably the only Stalinist country left in the world today.
00:10:14:12 - 00:10:34:01
Unknown
So to go in there and to see how they live and to play nonstop, Abdiel was playing 1 or 2 gigs and for two and a half weeks. So it was a real eye opener. And to be honest, you know, when I came back to Singapore, I looked at Singapore. Totally different eyes. And that's one reasons why for me, I, I am very slow to judge when it comes to Singapore.
00:10:34:06 - 00:10:51:12
Unknown
So the judge book policies and all that. And because I always remember, the lessons I learned there and to be very grateful for what I have, you know, I know it sounds corny, but when you spend to another piece over there, it changes your life. Okay. Okay. Well this so it's more than just about just the music.
00:10:51:15 - 00:11:17:09
Unknown
It's also your show even your own, your whole outlook on how Singapore is and where it is. And in regards to the world. Right. Oh wow. I mean I don't know where to start man. It's like oh wow man. I mean it's just oh wow. You know, I mean, I get that a lot of stories that we can talk about next time, hopefully we drink popular, but it's just, you know, it really, really dawns upon you because, you know, you used to read about the Soviets, right?
00:11:17:12 - 00:11:35:07
Unknown
Usually also the CCP and used to read about China and all that. I mean, you know, you just reading, you know, you're not in it, you know, but when you're in it and you see all this way. Wow, man. I mean, it's like state over fictitious movie. You just cannot believe it. And it's like it's real, you know?
00:11:35:09 - 00:11:57:02
Unknown
So when I came back, I can tell, you know, it just changed everything. I saw it then. This one reasons why I was telling you about your about your interview with Gallery. And I have a lot of information about him as well, because I know he's he's talking sense because because I can understand what he's saying from the point of view of my classes in North Korea, because in Italy.
00:11:57:04 - 00:12:22:08
Unknown
Virtually there's a lot, there's a lot that that, you know, young people can learn when traveling or the you know, seeing the world outside, maybe not necessarily in North Korea, but even just, just outside of Singapore. It's like you, but I did want to also then ask you because you talked about, you know, your you saw a very big need to be become an arts educator.
00:12:22:10 - 00:12:50:10
Unknown
Yes. To sort of, you know, whether it's to, address the, the financing of boards very much feels much more tightly controlled and, maybe doesn't flourish as easily here. What was the, what was in the in your mind when you thinking about this transition to becoming a teacher? Well, I mean, wasn't that isn't that, sort of, go against, you know, you you sort of enjoining the system and enabling the system when you join it to, to teach young people and.
00:12:50:10 - 00:13:09:08
Unknown
All right. How do you think about the dichotomy? You know, you know, the, the thing, but it also involves teaching loss. All right. It was, more of a private institution. So I had quite a lot of freedom to practice different ways of teaching students. Arla. And, I want to see I want to see this. I want to see that, I want experience.
00:13:09:08 - 00:13:34:00
Unknown
I can tell you why it became as it was. I remember in my in the 80s, right when I was in, in USAID and US, and we had a tour in Europe, just traveling tour. I remember I was very struck by the fact that in London. Right. You can't get a bricklayer laying bricks, you know, you, you know, you take a break and he got a copy of the, John Paul sites, nausea and reading, you know, while there, you know, you go there, lay bricks.
00:13:34:02 - 00:13:55:15
Unknown
He hit me, you know, hit me because the one thing taught me about that was that art is really not supposed to be this pretentious, upper middle class, kind of, luxury. You know, it's for everybody. And I realized that the reason why England or the UK is where it is culturally is not even. Because. No, even because they're smarter than us or anything.
00:13:55:15 - 00:14:17:14
Unknown
Not at all. No. I mean, not even to any extent, but it's because they are an older country. They've evolved their cultural consciousness for four freaking hundred years or whatever. So I feel that in Singapore, right. Because we're a young nation, but we still don't have that. Therefore cultural consciousness, you see, in the 70s especially was a little harder.
00:14:17:16 - 00:14:37:00
Unknown
So this is what I, how I see myself is a calling to be an asset, to instill that therefore cultural consciousness in it. Okay. How about this I, I think there's a big difference between art and the arts. I feel that when you use the word arts, right, it becomes a, it becomes a, industry. It's like an art industry, you know?
00:14:37:00 - 00:14:58:14
Unknown
And to me, that's a bit of an oxymoron. Whereas if you are talking about art, right, you're talking about your life, you're talking about a life in art, your life being and being a world. So I'm interested in arts. So I'm an arts educator who's interested in talking and and spreading the love of art, because art I do, for me, brings depth and meaning to our lives.
00:14:58:14 - 00:15:15:17
Unknown
And I feel that this is something which is which is lacking very much in Singapore, whether we like it or not, because it's not about building Esplanade, and it's not about bringing out the unseen, because sometimes all that is just a very expensive form of our we know, window shop, window dressing. I think it's about the internal Tino.
00:15:15:18 - 00:15:34:02
Unknown
And I tell you why you know this, because, I mean, look at local music. We have a lot of in new good, very good New York new bands. Some of them are my good friends. And there's not much support by people, you know, because, again, Singapore leads us somehow. I don't know about you, so I'm going to see something controversial somehow.
00:15:34:02 - 00:15:52:20
Unknown
There's this sense of self-loathing in Singaporeans, as in, we tend to not like ourselves very much. So because we don't like ourselves, we don't really like what we do artistically. I feel that, in Thailand or in Malaysia and Indonesia, look at how, you know, especially Thailand, they love their own local musicians, but in Singapore it's just not their support.
00:15:52:23 - 00:16:24:22
Unknown
So to me, it's not just a cultural problem is also an existential problem. And I feel that all these causes, this unhappiness among even younger generation people. I think it's a general idea of the soul not being fed. It's widening. And that's why I want to become the answer to karaoke stories about it. So, I mean, yeah, I'm sure there's a lot that you do to to mitigate that, but how what what do you think is the main thing that you try to do to feed their souls, to get them to, to look outside of this self-loathing bubble?
00:16:24:24 - 00:16:44:04
Unknown
Well, let me just show one simple, simple, simple story. So when I was a kid and I secondary to remember and capital was a very good, theater as film, I was totally. My life was transformed by taxi Driver. I remember I saw it, it was ten, 23. And my life was totally transformed by by by Scorsese's Taxi Driver.
00:16:44:10 - 00:17:09:22
Unknown
So what I saw no reason was because Travis. Because the character. Just because this loner alienated that guy. Right? Bullshit. First incredible script. So what I didn't mean recently of years ago was I just shared with him Taxi Driver and talked a bit about it. And it's quite amazing. You know how it transforms them together. They go back and they start thinking about the film and asking them, Why is Travis Bickle, you know, doing this and doing that?
00:17:09:24 - 00:17:32:05
Unknown
So to me, on offers that pathway to some sense of self enlightenment provided is taught properly and provided is taught with sincerity. You see, right now in Singapore, right. We are trying to create an industry. And whether you like it or not, there's corrupt Ebola, because what happens is that people are, asking for funding from the government.
00:17:32:07 - 00:17:59:23
Unknown
So that they can fund your projects, but that comes with its, level of corrupt ability, whether you like it or not. And I see this as somebody who's never been funded, I've always done everything on my own. So that's the problem. So, so, so government systems need to know that we have to emphasize on art and not on the arts, you see, because once you talk about the arts, you get all kinds of, strange bedfellows coming in with their own mentalities and all that.
00:18:00:00 - 00:18:21:11
Unknown
You need the integrity, to, to, to, to point people to the right direction. They can feed the soul. And I think there's something that we need to think about. Okay. That's because you I don't know. Yeah it does, it does I think, I think is what you say about art versus the arts is something very important for, for young people especially as they make the decision.
00:18:21:11 - 00:18:41:17
Unknown
But you know what they want to do their lives. Yeah. So you know, because there will be future generations of young Singaporeans listening to this. You know, what's one piece of advice that you would give to a young person who's thinking about pursuing a career, as an artist or, you know, in the arts, as you say in Singapore?
00:18:41:19 - 00:18:59:22
Unknown
What's one thing that you can tell them from all your years of experience? Okay. One of my favorite American authors is Paul Auster, who was just passed away in this this interesting thing. He says, whatever you do, don't ever try to be a writer because he says, I write. Those are very lonely. Vocation is is full of suffering.
00:18:59:24 - 00:19:24:13
Unknown
But you only become a writer because you really feel this need to want to see something. You feel this need, and it's a calling. So this one thing, being an idealist myself all my life, right? I mean, I mean, I see myself as an artist in a sense that sometimes I tell myself maybe I should be an architect or I should be a lawyer, so I'm not gonna learn these pretentious people by saying that.
00:19:24:15 - 00:19:37:04
Unknown
So being from my art and stuff, like, I mean, it's tough love, but I have no in the sense I have no choice. Because, you know, there's just this urge to make music, you know what I mean? Every year I'm coming out albums, you don't see them coming or a new album, you know, that kind of thing. New.
00:19:37:05 - 00:19:54:19
Unknown
You just need to make this music feature. So you just need to live this way. You just need to live creatively this way. So my, my, my suggestion to them is unless you really have that, you know, that real urge to want to do it and, and and you see yourself in long term doing that. No, don't do it.
00:19:54:21 - 00:20:18:13
Unknown
Don't don't do this. You know, or you can just get a job and do it on your in on your part time because it feeds your soul. This one. Yeah. And the second thing is that, but for those of us who, you know, those of us who sincerely want to pursue it, I think the great rewards of it is not so much financial because, as I think you well know, learns that these things don't pay.
00:20:18:15 - 00:20:44:03
Unknown
But but I think, the because we want is the fulfillment of your soul, of the realization of your, your being in your, in your individual self. So that's well see. Oh see that that's the reward it comes to be. But you have to decide from there. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Oh, I mean, that's, a good place to also ask you about something maybe, can delve into more personally how people can think about it.
00:20:44:05 - 00:21:11:01
Unknown
But what what comes to mind when you hear the word love? Love? Is it? Yeah. Well, I'm, I'm I'm I'm a believer myself, a Christian myself. So of course, God comes to mind, but that's, that's the, the maybe more, obvious kind of, word. But I will say that, I think, I've been very lucky, in the fact that it's been quite tough and and very tough, doing what I'm doing.
00:21:11:07 - 00:21:29:11
Unknown
But it's been a meaningful struggle. And I've had people in, in my life live support them as an artist, fellow artists themselves. I feel love in that because they are able to, even give of themselves to, to support what I do. And I'm very grateful for that. And of course, I have somebody in my life, let's deal.
00:21:29:13 - 00:21:54:17
Unknown
But I think ultimately, in the end, you know, the journey and the light, right? Love is me and you. You and me. Love is knowing we can be. You know, I feel that that there is a is the most simple and yet the most difficult. And the most, most complex and profound thing ever. As in, is something quite transcendent that cannot be, expressed.
00:21:54:19 - 00:22:19:03
Unknown
But maybe, Philip Larkin said it best in one of his poems. What will survive us all is lovely. So I feel that love is this transcendent thing out there, and I feel that is such a beautiful and unreachable ideal that, you know, is the reaching towards the idea of love that kind of like, I don't know, enables us to feel that love doesn't make sense.
00:22:19:05 - 00:22:37:09
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, because I think, hearing from you definitely, you're a passionate listener, right? So, even the question about love, like, it transcends just romantic love, but also just thinking about how, you know, how love triggers in your life and how you give it to people and to give it to your pursuits and everything.
00:22:37:11 - 00:22:59:02
Unknown
So in some sense, if, you know, a lot of young people today, some of them say that, you know, it's very tough for them to find a passion in their life, not even talking about a girlfriend or boyfriend, but, you know, just finding something that they feel very passionately for what you tell them in when they when they ask that question.
00:22:59:04 - 00:23:24:14
Unknown
I think nowadays with the onslaught of social media and all that stuff. Right. And actually when I was growing up, they would, they would have gossip papers and magazines and, and that was like a form of social media. Right? I just feel that, all of us have a voice that we want to feel. But I think right now, there seems to be, like a like like, you know, it's like a matrix nowadays.
00:23:24:14 - 00:23:47:05
Unknown
Not to me, you know what I'm saying? It's like there's, the world out there and, and you don't know what it's real anymore. And I think that's that's the problem facing a lot of us today, whatever age we are. So I think that's why that's why we are becoming as educators. Because I think what the when, when with art is being, practice and when art is being taught about on a deeper level.
00:23:47:05 - 00:24:09:24
Unknown
Right. It gives you a sense of questioning and self self questioning and confronting the difficult questions to enable you to, I guess, create a certain, sense of who you are. You know, I think Bob Dylan said that, you create your own self. You know, you don't really have a simple you create it. I mean, I think it's half right.
00:24:10:03 - 00:24:28:23
Unknown
I think you have a self in you, but you also need to create it in some ways. Bye bye, bye bye. You know, looking at my thinking about these questions, are these hard questions. So I find it really or not able to look deeper into ourselves in those hard questions and into deal with reality then is is very hot.
00:24:28:23 - 00:24:51:00
Unknown
And so for me, that's that's what was happening now because people are more interested in things that are, I guess, shallow and mainstream. And there's nothing wrong with that because I myself enjoyed, the show in mainstream. I mean, if I myself enjoy social media by think you it's got to be, tempered with, deeper sense of who you are and, and who you are.
00:24:51:00 - 00:25:12:00
Unknown
And I think that's what's lacking in people nowadays. So my feeling is that people need to question more about these things, about sense of who they are, know, and they need to do more questions about them selves, and they need to get more honest and real with ourselves about what living and life and reality truly is. And I think that's really lacking right now.
00:25:12:02 - 00:25:32:19
Unknown
So for young people indulging in social media and all that, does it remind you of, like you indulging in this school back in the day? Yeah, it reminds me of, that and, you know, you know, like you your buying albums and buying your cassettes and, magazines. Right. And we are sort of like lauding our idols and, you know, worshiping.
00:25:32:19 - 00:25:49:24
Unknown
I mean, to me, hero worship is not a is a very old thing, right? I mean, yeah, yeah, it was going on during my time and, you know, so affects people. I mean it was a lot of drugs during that time too. So I think that just as a result of, of, of them idolizing their favorite metal bands or their favorite bands or whatever, right.
00:25:50:01 - 00:26:07:08
Unknown
So, so to me is it's the same perennial problem throughout outlaw is just this problem of being, you know, people like to say things like or you know, the young generation is like this and, or like the things are a lot better than I think it's garbage. I think it's garbage. I mean, Billy Joel said that the good old days when all is good, right?
00:26:07:14 - 00:26:24:16
Unknown
And tomorrow's not not as bad as it seems. I think it's garbage. Because I think ultimately, in the end. Right. All of us have the same problems. We all want one. Love. You all want to love. You want to make a living. You know, I think and I think people say that also because there's too trapped in their generation's ideas.
00:26:24:18 - 00:26:43:20
Unknown
They're not open to new ideas. Which is the other thing I wanted to say that I think is so important to embrace ideas, but I think right now, for me, the problem, the problem is always been a problem to solve. The problem is been the problem of realizing who we are and knowing what we want. And and I think the next step is how are you going to propagate?
00:26:43:23 - 00:27:12:17
Unknown
How are you going to create some kind of meaning for yourself? You don't have that sense of who you are. I mean it's great that we're talking about this sense of who you are because you also, but you also include it with seeing that, you know, along the way in your life, you've had friends, fellow artists and you know, partners, you know, who have supported you and given you a lot of, almost like emotional anchor for, for to allow you to be who you are.
00:27:12:18 - 00:27:43:14
Unknown
Right. So in that sense, has it become easier to, you know, maintain these relationships with people, or has it was it easier back then, before social media? You know? Yeah, I think that's interesting because it's connected to it also because I feel that if you have a sense if you are a true psycho. Right. If you ask, well, what's true, what's real, chances are you will you will have friends who are like you, and and these will last forever.
00:27:43:20 - 00:28:03:07
Unknown
You know me. Yeah. So to me, to me, the. I think the reason why people, people like friends is because is the beginning premise of you. You yourself do not want to see what is real and true for yourself. And I feel that if you don't do that, you will end up with friends. Were not people who seek for the truth, not people who want to live the truth.
00:28:03:07 - 00:28:23:05
Unknown
So for me, I've always I have friends in my life. We have that belief and have that truth seeking, thing. And and because of that, I've had more or less the same friends for decades because they, they they they've been there for me because they see the purpose of what I'm doing. But then there are also people who are very genuine about what they do.
00:28:23:07 - 00:28:41:11
Unknown
So for me, it's like, it's like a whole cycle, you know, it's like if you, you know, if you question who you are and if you have a sense of who you are is tough, like difficult as well. So thing in many ways, but what happens is that you develop this sense of who you are. And because of that, you're able to connect to people who are the like minded to you.
00:28:41:13 - 00:29:01:03
Unknown
I think it's it develops that way. So I think it's connected to what I say. Just knowing. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I mean that I think you alluded to a couple of them, but what do you think are the values of the people who have stayed with you through your life? That what of values that, important to you as a person?
00:29:01:05 - 00:29:23:17
Unknown
Okay. Well, I think honesty is on. Honesty is really on top of that because I find it nowadays is is very, very hard to tell the truth. You know, it's very, very hard to be honest to do to people. Right. Especially right now there's a lot of salad dressing going on. So I think honesty is very important. And the other thing is I think, integrity, I think I'm being sincere about.
00:29:23:22 - 00:29:42:07
Unknown
But what you want to do and why you want to do things, I think those two are I really for me, the cornerstones and of course, love and passion for things. Love genuine love and passion for things. And I feel that these these are qualities that don't don't die out and don't rot away through the years and their enduring qualities.
00:29:42:09 - 00:30:06:19
Unknown
Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well that's good to know. And what do you, you know, I mean in spite of the fact that we have social media to stay in touch with people at all. There's a lot of young people who also say that you don't actually have many, many real friends on there. What do you what would what would you tell them to do if they want, if they wanted to?
00:30:06:21 - 00:30:31:15
Unknown
You want get out and meet people and all that. Like what should they be doing? Oh, it is a tough one, especially in today's climate, because, yeah, I think the, the underlying, climate I have no which I think maybe didn't exist when I was growing up is that I think younger generation people, I feel, have all the dressing and packaging on the outside.
00:30:31:17 - 00:30:49:17
Unknown
I feel that deep inside game, there's this incredibly deep underlying cynicism. I don't get it, you know? I mean, you're really there a lot. There's a lot of this incredibly deep cynicism and distrust. And, and that leads to, I think, suicides and, you know, depression, that kind of stuff, I do believe is linked in many ways.
00:30:49:19 - 00:31:13:19
Unknown
Because like I said, it is connected, right? Yeah. But I feel that I feel that, I don't like, use the word positive, but I feel that right now, a certain awakening of the consciousness and the soul is important now, but but, but but the how do you do that is one thing. I mean, like, how do you tell somebody, you know, you're down in the dumps, stop being so cynical, you know, stop being so disillusioned.
00:31:13:19 - 00:31:36:21
Unknown
You tell them that because that's based on personal experiences, right? So to me it's like, how do you how do you ask them to have hope in spite of them? You know, because it's such an anxious generation. Everybody is so anxious and everybody's always on the move and all that. And that's a really hard question to answer and well to, to, to it, to, to bring the point back.
00:31:36:21 - 00:32:02:14
Unknown
And that's why I mean, I say to get those because I feel that, I've seen art, transform people to at least, at least use them another avenue to rethink their life and rethink what life is and what meaning is. Yeah. For ritual. I mean, I guess that's a good point. Also, just ask you, because we are recording this in celebration of, 60 years of Singapore's, history.
00:32:02:14 - 00:32:26:07
Unknown
That. Right. What do you wish for the next 60 years of Singapore for Singaporeans? Okay, firstly, I want to say this. I want to say that, I love this country, down to my bare bones, but, my my, my my feeling about this country is that it really does understand me. Doesn't need people like me.
00:32:26:07 - 00:32:46:07
Unknown
Not because it doesn't want to, because it's just not able to. It's not able to understand me because some of us have really taken off track of track path in life away from Singapore, a number of years to stay in Singapore. So sometimes we're like a little own country, to be honest. And that's also quite funny too, if you if you look at it.
00:32:46:09 - 00:33:06:13
Unknown
So my wish for Singapore the next 60 years or so is a few things that I see is everything that we see in this part of in our world. So I'll cut it down. I mean, it's a cultural consciousness, a deeper awareness of who we are, deeper awareness of, obviously. So appreciation of who we are, where we are from.
00:33:06:15 - 00:33:48:18
Unknown
There's a lot of, bitter hatred, vitriol going on now regarding the country and all that and any, any enumeration of the government only. So. Well, in your podcast, I appreciative of it. But really like, you know, there's this deep sitting, unsettling, even hatred and bitterness about about, the some aspects of our country by view that, I think, I think if, if, if our younger generation are built up with a deeper cultural awareness and consciousness about things, when I think we were able to put it in the context of where things are, maybe it helps to, develop our own nation existentially, which is lacking
00:33:48:18 - 00:34:08:17
Unknown
right now. So I reached for them. And I also wish that, we will look deeper into, into, the whole world as a whole, the whole context of what the world is and the countries and all that. And to see Singapore in, you know, Singapore in the context of the whole world into and to see where we stand.
00:34:08:19 - 00:34:25:06
Unknown
Because if you if you do that now, they were able to better get a better position of who we are as a nation, which I think sometimes we are a bit too inward. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and I think that's also a cause of like what we just see, you know, bodies, dissatisfaction and all that. Maybe we need to, to look at it in the context of that.
00:34:25:06 - 00:34:40:13
Unknown
Like, you know, I mean, I remember, one of the greatest advice I got, it was, was that, you know, I mean, world view has come to my head. Was this guy, you know, me say that, you know, Calvin, you you seem to be a guy that knows your place in the universe. I'm not sure that's true, because actually, I.
00:34:40:13 - 00:34:57:13
Unknown
I'm not somebody to this kind of thing. But if it was true, it was good. Good template for everybody to know your place in universe. Because when you do that, then at least maybe you know this country and the universe to align in the context of the whole world and to see where we are. And I think right now maybe that's not happening.
00:34:57:15 - 00:35:28:02
Unknown
That's why we are so determined. We have a lot of things. That's why I think and also, I think we also need to realize that, well, you know, there's no such thing as a utopia. You know, tokenism doesn't exist, you know, and I think when you work from there, you're able to see that, you know, sometimes it's not about which method is better, but which matters less, worse, you know, because I think the way the world is going is becoming like that.
00:35:28:02 - 00:35:44:15
Unknown
Now. We no longer have the option of good or bad anymore. It's more like less words or less ambiguous or something like that. And I mean, I'm just putting it out there. I guess the reason why I'm seeing all this is because I'm very hopeful, and I'm very hopeful and excited about where Singapore will be the next 60 years.
00:35:44:16 - 00:35:50:20
Unknown
I.
00:35:50:22 - 00:36:20:00
Unknown
Hello again. I hope you enjoyed listening to that full query. Words of wisdom is a project by Charlotte Gall, powered by full query and supported by I'll Singapore Fun. To find out more, please visit our website at Folklorico. That's f o l k l o r y.com. Goodbye.