Our B2B SaaS Journey

In this episode, Mitchell and Gavin unpack the chaos of multitasking across SixSides, DealBuddi, sales, marketing, product, fitness, and life, while working through a new content strategy, a path to $1.5m, a painful sales lesson, a near-miss in the Startup World Cup, and a major technical move from MySQL to Postgres for offline event app support.

Links

Chapters
  • (00:00) - Intro and the multiple balls problem
  • (03:08) - Breaking priorities into action plans with ChatGPT
  • (03:56) - The new SixSides marketing plan
  • (10:24) - Mapping the road to $1.5m
  • (12:45) - Why onboarding is becoming a bottleneck
  • (17:47) - Mr Worldwide and the next big opportunity
  • (21:13) - App redesign and improving team workflows
  • (27:43) - Gavin’s painful sales mistake
  • (39:48) - Missing out on the Startup World Cup
  • (49:57) - Moving from MySQL to Postgres for offline mode

In this episode, we cover:
  • Gavin’s “multiple balls problem” and how he used walks and ChatGPT to break messy priorities into clearer action plans
  • The new SixSides marketing plan built around interviewing community leaders and turning those conversations into useful content
  • Why SixSides may need to think more like a media company to build trust and create a sustainable pipeline
  • The road to $1.5m, including founder-led sales, team-enabled sales, product-led growth, and better onboarding
  • Why customer onboarding is becoming one of the most immediate bottlenecks for SixSides
  • Preparing for the World Police Games and a potentially much bigger “Mr Worldwide” opportunity
  • The app redesign, including handing more design implementation work over to the team
  • How Mitchell is improving team workflows in Linear with clearer comments, screenshots, and before-and-after updates
  • Gavin’s sales mistake with a potential charity client, and why founders need to be careful when sharing unqualified pricing material
  • The “fat guy, skinny guy” sales framework for anchoring value by showing the before and after
  • Why missing out on the Startup World Cup might be a useful reminder to focus on customers instead of grants and competitions
  • Gavin signing up for a 100km Brisbane to Gold Coast bike ride for cancer fundraising
  • Mitchell saying no to extra commitments and narrowing his focus
  • Moving the SixSides database from MySQL to Postgres to support ElectricSQL and offline mode in the mobile app
  • Why offline app support matters for event attendees, especially international participants without reliable mobile data
  • TinyBase, Cloudflare Durable Objects, and why the team is now leaning towards Postgres and ElectricSQL
  • Local AI models, Apple’s on-device AI direction, and possible future use cases for translations inside the SixSides app
Got questions or topics you want us to cover? Email us at journey@sixsides.co

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Creators and Guests

Host
Gavin Tye
Sales and Marketing and Co-Founder of SixSides
Host
Mitchell Davis
Developer and Co-Founder of SixSides

What is Our B2B SaaS Journey?

Join the SixSides.co team as we navigate the highs and lows of building a B2B SaaS company. From finding product-market fit to scaling sales and community-driven growth, we share real insights, tough lessons, and candid conversations about what it really takes to grow a successful SaaS business. Whether you're a founder, marketer, developer, or just SaaS-curious, this is your backstage pass to the journey.

Mitchell Davis:

Hey. I'm Mitchell Davis, CTO and Laravel developer.

Gavin Tye:

I'm Gavin Tye, CEO in sales and marketing. How's that, buddy? Bit of energy there, mate, like last

Mitchell Davis:

week. We're juicing it. That's good. We are into year two of running a remote startup, 6sides.co, and it's a community led events platform. We're documenting both the business and tech of our journey as we build our SaaS.

Mitchell Davis:

How are you going, mate?

Gavin Tye:

Mate, I am a bit sick at the moment. Like, it's a change of weather here, but generally pretty good. Yeah. I'm not too bad. Not too bad at all.

Gavin Tye:

What about on your neck of the woods, my friend?

Mitchell Davis:

Oh, that's nice. Yeah. I'm okay. I'm just busy. There's a lot going on.

Mitchell Davis:

Busy time of year as well. Tax season. Yeah. Lodging lodging buzzers, making payments, doing it all. But, that's okay.

Mitchell Davis:

It's not the much fun and exciting stuff. Last week, I want to pick up where we left off a little bit last week was around the multiple balls problem. We I've had this named in here. I've been wondering about it all week. Have you solved the multiple balls problem?

Mitchell Davis:

And what was that for those who didn't listen?

Gavin Tye:

Just rig or just to recap, there's there's about in my world, there's six or seven things going on in the business. We're actually fighting some fires on some different fronts. It's a I think it's a quasi, not even a real trademark issue to be fair, which we're just being forced to answer, which we won't go into details yet. We'll see how that goes in a couple of weeks. And then, you know, growing the business, managing the team, then also on the other side of the fence, I've got my other business deal buddy trying to find clients for that.

Gavin Tye:

So there's just so much and then moving house and then that stuff around the house. I've just had a lot of balls in the air and then I was having a little bit of analysis paralysis last week. But I'd be happy to report Mitch that I have made a decent amount of progress on a few things this week.

Mitchell Davis:

So Nice.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

Good one. You were talking about splitting it up. Right? And going like, okay, if I've got these 15 different things that I have to do across, you know, a couple of different businesses. If I do one thing a day for each business, something like that, then that would help you get through everything.

Mitchell Davis:

Is that what you've been doing? Well, yeah. So I do my best thinking when I walk. So if I get stuck on things,

Gavin Tye:

I'll walk a lot and I'll just think about like, just try to come up with a plan. So what happened this week is I figured out loosely all the things I had in my head. And then when I went for a walk, just was talking to Chad Tye Gavin Tye. And I was saying, these are all the things that I have in order of priority. And so basically we broke down six or seven tasks into what needed to be done into about six or seven steps on what needed to be done.

Gavin Tye:

And that gave me a lot clearer action plan on what to approach. And so, and then that gave me, then I could dive into each one of those and I'll pull them out and put them into the separate projects that we have in GBT. So predominantly one of the biggest rocks that I moved this week was, I think I may have touched on it. Yeah. Last week, the marketing plan.

Gavin Tye:

Right? So I did break that down a little more over the week and I got to a good place of what I wanted to do. So essentially we're gonna, I'm gonna interview. It's evolved a little bit since last week, but I'm going to interview, community leaders or people who are, things for like, not for profit. So they could even be in the startup world, whatever.

Gavin Tye:

And then interview them about building community and all that kind of stuff. And then out of that would derive all these other pieces of content out of it. With the main focus on adding value to the community we're building in school. Now I've got all the way to the end and I was about to push publish to you guys. And then I was like, hang on a second.

Gavin Tye:

What would Gary Vaynerchuk say about this? And so I went back to it and I asked GBT, I said, now pretend to Gary Vaynerchuk and have a look at this and tell me what you would change if you would. And it said, yep, everything's on point, except you need to produce more content. Cause he says do more bits of content. And I was like, yeah, right.

Gavin Tye:

And I agree with it. I don't think we have a place to put all the bits of content because you picked up on that. You're like, are going to put it all? And I'm like, yeah, I don't think we have an answer for that yet.

Mitchell Davis:

And give, give people an idea of like what sort of numbers we were talking about.

Gavin Tye:

Oh, yeah. I have to find that. I don't have it open here, but basically It

Mitchell Davis:

was like five or 10, like LinkedIn posts from one article, one conversation. Right?

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. That's right.

Mitchell Davis:

And that sounded high to me. So it surprised me because it's like there's only so much so much gold in any one conversation. So yeah. So that just surprised me. I just called that out and said, I wondered if this is accurate.

Mitchell Davis:

Okay. Sounds like you got encouraged to

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. Increase it. Well it depends. I think you have to be deliberate on what, what, what intentional around what you're trying to achieve. Right.

Gavin Tye:

So let me just have a look here. So while we're doing it. Yeah. So what we're saying, yeah, one full podcast episode, then now that that have it as a YouTube video, like a YouTube for the podcast or a shorter video as well. A couple of short clips, maybe some smaller, like LinkedIn posts, eight to 12 or something like that.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. I do agree some of that is a bit, sounds like a bit too much, like where are we gonna post it?

Mitchell Davis:

And,

Gavin Tye:

but I do think if you're meeting with someone over the course of an hour and you're asking them very intentional questions, you can pull lots of bits of content out. Sure. Again, I'm not going to post eight to 12 bits of content on my, on my LinkedIn based on that. So I'm not sure what we would do. We probably only need three for the week or four for the week.

Gavin Tye:

But anyway, and it was it was pretty good.

Mitchell Davis:

Direction. Right? Like, it's it is good, this plan, and we can adjust the we can dial the knobs differently over time.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. So that, that was, that was pretty interesting on, on, at least I've got that in play. Now we're just gonna see, we'll start getting the guests so I can focus on what I like interviewing the guests and speaking to guests, and then we can figure out what we want to produce on the other side of it. You know, and then how do we get people into the community or so we would do a lot of that stuff in our community so people will come into it. We really, the objective of this is, is to become

Mitchell Davis:

a hub

Gavin Tye:

for a central source of truth for community builders, to a place for them to want to come and help them and build our community. And then I would think if we do that really well, a byproduct of that will be for clients to come off the other side of it. Right.

Mitchell Davis:

Otherwise, would we do it? We're not doing

Gavin Tye:

it for goodness of our hearts. But we also want to build a sustainable pipeline.

Mitchell Davis:

Right. Yeah. That Do you want, do you want any help with, like questions to ask with things like that? Do you want me involved at all? And because I'm open to it, but I'm also not asking, hey, I want to do this with you.

Mitchell Davis:

I just want know.

Gavin Tye:

Look, I think it's a team effort. Like, I think we'll iterate over time. Like what I think would be good to do is get your help in the editing part and looking at it and going, Hey, that was good. I think you like, give me feedback and saying, Hey, that was really good. That wasn't so good.

Gavin Tye:

You've got this nerd. You've got this tick here or you do this bad habit, like, and get rid of that stuff. Like, cause I, I don't like looking at myself on camera and I do know why I've picked this up when we started doing this podcast. I'll say, yeah. Yeah.

Gavin Tye:

Or do certain things.

Mitchell Davis:

Go, ugh. But, Yeah. Well, there's in Riverside, which we used to record that you can enter the studio as a producer. Mhmm. Maybe like so I could be on the recording, but not talking if that might be of interest, if the if that wouldn't be odd or anything.

Mitchell Davis:

So maybe it's something that we could try because maybe I can help identify, hey, okay, we're going down this path or whatever or like something that we might wanna change. And Yeah. I can help then control the quality as it's happening instead of just after the fact. But, I I think I on the editing piece, yes, I could see myself I could do the editing for maybe the the first couple episodes and then I think like Reya has mentioned she's got video production experience, you know like maybe that's something that we could I could train her up in how I think this could work because that would be really powerful. I would love to have the ability to hand off editing to Reya you know maybe for this show, maybe not, I'm not quite sure, but yeah, like if we were doing this more often as a pipeline, that would be great.

Gavin Tye:

Well, I do think at the end of the day for, if we're gonna be successful, we're gonna have to be a media company too, like essentially to get our get the word out there and content out there. Right? Otherwise, we're gonna be hiring people in. Like we could we look, when I say that we could just hire content producers or content editors, which would make sense. So, Anyway, so that was a big, that was a big one off my plate.

Gavin Tye:

The second big one off my plate is about, our path to 1 or $2,000,000 really in the next three years. And how do we get there? So, I went through that, look, I went, started going through that to a degree and that's just on the business side, not on the, on the software side. Like that's a different, that's a conversation that that's a new thing that you need to sort out. Obviously, like, I mean, with the infrastructure and stuff like that.

Gavin Tye:

So we would discuss that. That's not a conversation for me to have without you. Yep. So I've wound all that all the way back from by the end of the year, we want to get to two fifty ks. We probably might shoot over that.

Gavin Tye:

Then next year we want to get to $4.50 to 600 or something like that. And then we want to go to a million and then 1.8. And then that gets us to two. Right. So, but we do need to do certain things around it.

Gavin Tye:

So all those will break out into mini tasks. So,

Mitchell Davis:

What sort of things have you got in mind?

Gavin Tye:

So again, I need to bring that up. Me a second.

Mitchell Davis:

Can of worms. No, no, no, no, no, So,

Gavin Tye:

the basically at the moment is our, we've got three engines, right? One is we've got founder led sales, which is, which is what it's led with us at the moment. Yep. Then we'll wanna start empowering the team to start closing sales without me being involved. And then we've got product led growth, which is an engine we're working on at the moment.

Gavin Tye:

Well, we're not working on yet, but we're very conscious of it. So, how do we build those and how do we get, it's not only founder led, but it's founder onboarding, which we need to remove ourselves. So part of that is, is how do we develop an onboarding plan, which I've been thinking about that this morning. How do we develop that so we're less hands on for people who come on board? It doesn't have to be perfect, but at least going down that path.

Mitchell Davis:

Okay. Let's walk through that. If if we get someone, we get a new conference, what are you and I actually doing for them at the moment?

Gavin Tye:

So basically setting up their event, like I said, well, I'm setting up their instance on the dashboard. So, which is, I thought about that today. I'm not exactly sure of the path when someone signs up for free and how they start using six sides from the beginning. Right. If we give a conference a login, let's say login and they create their team and then

Mitchell Davis:

they So

Gavin Tye:

it still requires a lot of us.

Mitchell Davis:

Right? Well, see, I'm not sure I agree because you can go in, you can create a team and then you can create events inside of that. You can invite people into your team. Sure. You can create your session and you can add speakers and sponsors.

Mitchell Davis:

Like, everything's there. It's already there.

Gavin Tye:

Sure. So and this is where I thought it's May it's the right hand not strictly aligned or a 100% aligned with the left hand. And we need to close that gap because I

Mitchell Davis:

need to figure out how

Gavin Tye:

to do it. And then I can build the onboarding plan at the moment. There's a bit of great uncertainty on my side.

Mitchell Davis:

So okay.

Gavin Tye:

And we'll make a plan to do that next week and then I'll start.

Mitchell Davis:

Okay. Sure. You want like, as in we'll do a walkthrough together of, okay, this is this is all the steps. Because in my mind, like, it's already a self-service platform except for payments. Like people, obviously we're not sure, we're not able to bill people for event organisers, right, for their events.

Mitchell Davis:

But otherwise everything else is already doable either through the UI or through conversations.

Gavin Tye:

Yes. Sure. And I don't, I think that, that I know that's true, but you knowing every how to do that, because you built it to someone coming in with no context or even I don't have the full context. We need to get we need to try to parry that up as quick as we can before it gets too far out of whack. Right?

Gavin Tye:

So, but just stuff

Mitchell Davis:

like And it's things like documenting it as well. Right. And going like, we should have some level of documentation right now. We don't really and like that's where okay. Is it a Notion page or is it a does it go on the marketing website and all that sort of stuff?

Mitchell Davis:

Like we're moving down that path. Right? But I think it probably could just for now be a PDF or a Google Doc with some screenshots in it. And we we pick up a customer and we go, hey. Here's how to get set up with your event.

Mitchell Davis:

Here's how to have a conversation with the AI about it. That sort of a thing. A minimum.

Gavin Tye:

For the bigger client, like for the bigger clients, it's fine. I don't mind spending a couple of hours with them, but we have a client that paid $500 just for a lunch. Right. I bogged right down into, helping her and she goes, I don't know how to use it. And I'm going, yeah, I get it.

Gavin Tye:

Okay. We need to figure that out. So, and it's all part of growing pains. Right. So, but just that stuff like, and then the better we can detail that out.

Gavin Tye:

I have a theory here. The better we could detail that out or capture that in, in content or whatever else. I don't think it'd be a big leap from there later on that we could build some type of onboarding agent to help people do that in time. Right. That's not a thing, but all that will go into it, into the knowledge base that we could train something up as a, as an assistant.

Gavin Tye:

So there's that. And then we're preparing Cool.

Mitchell Davis:

Yep. So sounds like onboarding is a key part of how we get to the two fifty k or whatever

Gavin Tye:

it's not. From sales, which we're working through at the moment, which we need to, which we're changing us, iterating our strategy a little bit. But apart from, I think it's only a matter of time. Like we've got, we've got 50 ks in our pipeline that I would think that at least half of that's gonna

Mitchell Davis:

come off in the next month or so. Okay.

Gavin Tye:

It's, it's the most immediate bottleneck that I can see that other than sales, because as soon as we're putting notes, then that's gonna be bogged down onboarding these clients. Right? Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

So Okay. All right. Well, I look forward to next week sitting down. Let's go through it together. Let's document I look

Gavin Tye:

forward to next week too. Thanks. Yeah. So, yeah, so that, that that's just one part. And then I've just been trying to break that out a little bit more.

Gavin Tye:

Like how do we, how do we enable the team to do more? All that kind of stuff. I've got a list of stuff here. Okay. We're still preparing for the world police games, which the first milestone, I got a verbal agreement this week for probably that will turn into our biggest opportunity from the world police games, which we're not ready to say.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. Let's call it project project worldwide. Yeah. Mister worldwide.

Mitchell Davis:

Yep. Yeah. Alright. You have to anytime you say it, you have to say it like that. I can say that.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll just I'll I'll call it project worldwide. That's fine.

Gavin Tye:

Well, wow.

Mitchell Davis:

You gotta add the flit. Yeah.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. So we got a verbal on that one and that is a decent opportunity that comes to a head in November. And we, and that is right into our community play, which is what you're rolling out. And yeah. So I'm trying to think about all the things that are going to slow that down and trying to get ahead of that.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. Yeah. Which is starting to stretch well beyond my, my current skillset. Right?

Mitchell Davis:

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's not easy to sit down and figure out what does the next year look like and how do we get to x and whatever. Like, yeah, it's it's hard.

Mitchell Davis:

It's very hard. So Yeah. Yeah.

Gavin Tye:

Do you wanna look just the

Mitchell Davis:

I think

Gavin Tye:

media plan, like, how do we get to two fifty, Right? Or 300? Which is what episode was that that in where you said It was

Mitchell Davis:

the Denmark episode. It's '26, I think.

Gavin Tye:

Yep. '26. Yeah. Yep. I wish we had had dates on there.

Gavin Tye:

Like, when

Mitchell Davis:

I can find out when that was. Yep. It would have been in August last year.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. Because we're decent. We're up there. Anyway. Yep.

Gavin Tye:

The goal was '26,

Mitchell Davis:

2025.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. How do we get there? Right? How do we get to 300? And then how do we get from that 300 to 600?

Gavin Tye:

Fuck the 1,500,000. Right? Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

We'll get there eventually. Yeah.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, we've got some, and the most immediate thing now is sales, which is I've, there's some uncertainty there. We're reiterating our, we're changing our strategy. And the guys have found some websites that are talking about event events coming up specifically.

Gavin Tye:

Yep. So they're they're shifting their approach there now. So which will take, that'll take a month to come through, but you're not gonna, you don't see those immediate changes. Yeah. Anyway.

Gavin Tye:

And then yesterday to top it off, I wasn't feeling very well. And I was like, fuck's sake. Just wanna go to sleep. But I got up and started building my podcast and recording studio in this office. I've got a good recording wall.

Gavin Tye:

So, yeah, I went and got all that done. I built that over the weekend and ordered some neon signs yesterday for

Mitchell Davis:

Crushing it.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. So I've I've made a fair dent into that multiple balls. Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

Heck, yeah, you have. Sounds like you've had a very good week. It's a good idea.

Gavin Tye:

Been doing, mate?

Mitchell Davis:

Well, I've been doing a lot of admin stuff, which hasn't been super fun, but the team has been doing really well. So I did hand off we talked last week handing off the design project that I've been doing for updating our mobile app to use, like, the latest design stuff from Apple and Google and who I think you asked me about WWDC, Apple's thing, whether that was last week or the week before. I'm not sure. But, like, yeah, I'm looking at all the new stuff that's coming out even over the next couple months. There'll be more things that we can add there.

Mitchell Davis:

Anyway, I handed that project over to Raymond, and he started going through and he's producing some really good stuff. So I got it to the point myself where the app now had a sense of design, had something that had a set of examples that Raymond could use and go, okay, cool. Let's make this screen and it should look roughly like this other one that's already been done. And that's been going well. So, yeah, he's he's started going through.

Mitchell Davis:

He's updated a bunch of screens already, which is great. There's more to go. It's not quite going as quickly as I would have hoped. So it it is gonna bleed into next week, but I'm hopeful that by the end of next week we'll be all done. So yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

So I had to check-in with them yesterday and that's me going well. The I spoke with the guys about, Linear and about like, I've talked over the last few episodes about how we're tracking things in Linear and our workflow, and they're not leaving they weren't leaving comments on the work that they were doing to the level that I wanted. So you and I spoke yesterday morning and you were like, how's the team going? And I was like, I don't know what they're working on right now because they're not following the plan. And I I sat down on the weekend.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. I think it was last weekend. I sat down and I recorded I wrote out you called it like it's an SOP, right, standard operating procedure, but I called it like how we work at SikSites. And it's just a list of things that I want the team to keep in mind anytime they get assigned some work. And one of those is Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. Exactly.

Gavin Tye:

But not I've never known any go get the trend and just go,

Mitchell Davis:

no.

Gavin Tye:

Fuck that. I'll do it my way. That's not like you.

Mitchell Davis:

But I've never known any developer to follow an SOP on development. Like, no one I've never hate seeing that. Right? Anyway, so this is a an SOP on how we work, and it's got a bunch of things in there. And one of them is about writing detailed comments and how we operate.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. Yeah. Standard matter. Standard. Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. Yeah.

Gavin Tye:

I've got a name for that. Yep.

Mitchell Davis:

And, anyway, so one of them is about leaving comments and regularly, like, keeping me updated on what's going on. There's a bunch of reasons that I want them to do that, but, they hadn't been doing that to the level that I wanted. So we sat down and I talked about that with them yesterday and then they've taken that on board and both of them have already got started leaving more detailed comments and more often which was So I'm gonna reinforce that with the team.

Gavin Tye:

Are you giving them feedback on that's a good that's a good amount of comments to leave back so they know?

Mitchell Davis:

Well, it it hasn't hasn't really started yet. It was like there was only one opportunity for one comment at the end of the day yesterday, so I'm gonna see how they go through today. And then I'll I guess I can report back on this, next week. But, anyway, I'm I'm confident that that will improve because I I sat down and I explained why it's relevant to them. Sure.

Mitchell Davis:

I'm like, I'm not just here trying to micromanage. I don't need to account for every minute of your time. It's not about that. It's just I wanna know, like, what are you actually working on and what are you thinking about as you're doing it? Where are you up to with a given task?

Mitchell Davis:

And then specifically for the app redesign, I'm asking for screenshots of before and after. Okay. And I noticed that Raymond was only putting screenshots in of the after. Right. And then I was like, this is good.

Mitchell Davis:

You're on the right track here, but I wrote in this ticket like I want before screenshots as well. So that way I can go with you and I can show like with you Gavin, I can go, hey, here's what we had before. Here's what we have now. Or if we get on a call with a potential customer or a customer and we wanna show them like, hey. This is what we're working on.

Mitchell Davis:

It just adds more context. And he was like, oh, okay. I understand now. No problem. I'll start doing that.

Mitchell Davis:

So he's going to be doing that from today. Yeah. So that was good.

Gavin Tye:

Continually remember is sometimes I don't understand. Right. And we don't, although there is a language barrier as much and a distance barrier. So we have to continually reinforce it. And it's not on them.

Gavin Tye:

It's on us. It's our responsibility for that. Right? Yeah. Sure.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the the app redesign is going well. It's not quite as quick as I would have hoped, but, we are making good progress.

Mitchell Davis:

We're getting through a bunch of screens. I've spoken with Raymond about the, how we wanna present sponsors as well because I know you and I, like, we quite liked the way that the new user profiles look, and we wanna kind of copy some of that design over to sponsors. So I'm excited to see that when that happens, which is probably early next week. So, yeah, that's going well. Alright.

Mitchell Davis:

So I think

Gavin Tye:

we're we're going a bit of back and backwards and forwards

Mitchell Davis:

just with a minute.

Gavin Tye:

We're going from sales, marketing, dev to keep people on the hook. Right? Because they typically sign out after after you talk with me apparently.

Mitchell Davis:

I don't think so. I think it's the other way around. If we look at the download numbers, I think it's the other way around.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. Yeah. No. You get the most downloads from your dev stuff. That's what I said.

Mitchell Davis:

Oh, right. Okay. So you

Gavin Tye:

zoned out. You zoned out.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. I zoned out. When you started talking, I zoned out. Yeah.

Gavin Tye:

I made a big I made a big mistake with a potential client last week actually, and it just come to fruition this week. So essentially what happened was I got on really well with this lady and she saw, she was like, this is amazing. Like, this is awesome. And, and I got excited. And, I always tell people it's hard, also hard not to, is I got excited about the opportunity because we we got on really well.

Gavin Tye:

And, I always tell people who I consult with, don't let your emotions get part like the better of you in a sale because that's a sales professional does not let their emotions get the better of them. Anyway, we're getting on really well. And I was talking about a white paper that I produced for this, not for profit, this charity. And how I talked about a 3% uplift from getting more awareness could equate to this much money. And then a 20% uplift could be this.

Gavin Tye:

And she's like, oh wow, we've got this event coming up. And I said, can I show you the white paper? And she's like, yeah. And I showed it to her. She goes, oh, this is brilliant.

Gavin Tye:

So she goes, I've actually got another charity that would really benefit from it. And I was like, okay. She goes, can you send me that white paper? Then I will send it off. And I was like, yeah, no worries.

Gavin Tye:

I said, but just to let you know, the pricing on here is not relevant for you. It's a different situation and it doesn't apply. And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, I don't think she heard it. So she come back, we're supposed to meet on Wednesday.

Gavin Tye:

She come back an hour before and she goes, look, you guys are just way too expensive than what we could ever pay. It's not relevant. And, I just don't think even the other person is not relevant for them. They can't afford it. And I'm like,

Mitchell Davis:

didn't listen.

Gavin Tye:

Didn't. Yes. But it's not on it's my responsibility. I should not have done that.

Mitchell Davis:

So like the idea, the way to fix that would have been what to remove any pricing from that doc. Right?

Gavin Tye:

Yes. Take I think what I am gonna do is look at those white papers that I've produced for people and then make it a generic white paper, remove cost, like remove it. So it's more generic as an example, an example, white paper for a charity or something. Because I I've done it before when I was at Redeye, I remember this lady, her name was Kay and she worked for concreting company. She said she loved Redeye.

Gavin Tye:

And she goes, can I have a look at it? Can I have a demo environment? I said, yeah, but it's not configured to you. No, no, that's okay. It's okay.

Gavin Tye:

And so I was like, okay. I gave it to her. She goes, she come back to me a week later and she goes, it doesn't do anything. And I tried to upload some drawings into it and it didn't work. So, yeah, now we're not interested.

Gavin Tye:

And I'm like, I told you that it's not configured. And, but I got excited and assuming that they hear, and even with the lady, like yes, on Wednesday, was so disappointed. And I was like, I thought we got on really well. And I thought that was a big use case there. I told you the pricing is not relevant.

Gavin Tye:

And anyway, all the best. And you just have to bite your tongue and you're going, I could have, you could have really got massive value from this except, and it was my mistake. It wasn't hers. It was mine. So yeah, won't be doing that again.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. Something to learn from only so much you can do. So

Gavin Tye:

yeah, I think it's a big thing. Anyone that's selling stuff is overconfidence and skipping the step just ruins things. It can ruin it. Right. I could have just taken an extra twenty minutes just to, just to desensitize that or position that a little differently.

Gavin Tye:

And I didn't, and I paid the price. We paid the price.

Mitchell Davis:

So, yeah. I know you were talking a little while ago about how you'd going back to like first principles with what you call the fat guy skinny guy model. Right. Or the as is and to be. Have you maybe you can explain what that is right for people.

Mitchell Davis:

And then are you leveraging that in calls that you're having?

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. Yes. So, okay. So the fat guy skinny guy principle is it's a model that I've come up with a framework is most tech companies or founders or anyone who sells tech will only talk about their product. They'll talk about what the product does.

Gavin Tye:

Right? But really at the end of the day, as a technology product is a business process. Right? And for, to say you improve that in the business, you have to give context to what their current process is in their business and why it's inefficient, why it, why they should pay attention to solve it, solving it. And I call it the fat guy skinny guy model, because if you just showed a skinny guy without actually showing the fat guy that they were before they started the transformation journey, you wouldn't get the context.

Gavin Tye:

Go, oh, he's a skinny guy, but you have no way to anchor value against. And so that's what I call it. So I have started using it again. I do, I feel like I do need to revisit it again. Now we've evolved.

Gavin Tye:

Generally I think it's okay, but I probably no. Not probably. I do need to revisit it again. And

Mitchell Davis:

yeah. It makes sense. Like, yeah. Yes. Our product has evolved.

Mitchell Davis:

So all of the starting material, like that was one of the first things you did eighteen months ago, you know, or something like that. So, yeah, it makes sense. We've

Gavin Tye:

I could probably turn that more into like a it's our core mission, like what it is. Like, this is what, why we built the business and this is the problems we're solving because of this. And then go from there that make it generic, reasonably generic across multiple businesses. Also may just wait three or four weeks until we release the community functionality. Just otherwise we could do it again.

Mitchell Davis:

Right? So

Gavin Tye:

yeah, anyway, we'll see how that goes, but that was a painful mistake. Luckily it was only a couple of thousand dollar client.

Mitchell Davis:

It's a

Gavin Tye:

big, it's a big brand name, like charity in Australia, which is, I can still go for that. I'm just glad it's not a world police games.

Mitchell Davis:

Right?

Gavin Tye:

But it's a good lesson to learn and everyone makes mistakes. It's just how you make sure that you just don't do them twice. I won't, I won't make that mistake again.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. Okay. Very good. You've got a big client potentially.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. Yeah. That's it's a worldwide. Right. Yeah.

Gavin Tye:

So there's a pilot project we have coming up. We positioned some pricing or a proposal last week, another white paper, and it come back and he said, yeah, this is brilliant. Like, of course, yes. That's worked towards it. But we do need to find a sponsor to fund it.

Gavin Tye:

Yep. And, which is a great Well, that's them.

Mitchell Davis:

They need to find a sponsor. Yes. Right.

Gavin Tye:

Yep. But one of the things he said to me, he goes, how much access do I have to you during this? And I'm like, mate, as much as you need, because he's the people that they are going to get to come onto the platform would be our ideal clients as well. And we could upsell them. So it's a, it's a really a lead generation tool, a lead generation exercise, but this, this is, if we were to execute this properly over the next three to four years, I would say four or five years, it's probably 20X larger than the world police games.

Gavin Tye:

Right. Which, which I think by the time we got to that project, I reckon we might have a, who knows, we'd be decent sized business by then. Yeah. Yeah. So really exciting.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. Got a meeting with them next week to show them the new functionality. I'm gonna run them through deal buddy. We're gonna tie in deal buddy to this and help them use deal buddy to, to be able to achieve their goals as well. Cool.

Gavin Tye:

And, yeah, it's really, really big opportunity. And it all come from Founders Collective.

Mitchell Davis:

Little old Founders Collective. Yeah.

Gavin Tye:

So it's, yeah, it's good. It's adding value to the community first.

Mitchell Davis:

This is someone that you had been wanting to get in touch with for ages. I remember talking about him with you.

Gavin Tye:

I tried to get in contact with him two years ago when we started six sides for another conference. I couldn't get him. He's too busy, but, I invited him to founders collective and we turns out he's a really good guy. Yeah. He if he's listening, he does talk a bit.

Gavin Tye:

He has a lot to say. And but a great guy nonetheless. So Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. I when you called me you called me to tell me about, hey. You know, we've got a, what do you call it?

Mitchell Davis:

A verbal yes here. Right? And my phone was actually in my backpack, and I was at the shops. I was at Bulleys. I could feel it buzzing on my back, but I was like, yeah, whatever.

Mitchell Davis:

I'm done for the day. It was like 05:30. Whoever it is, I'll call them back, you know, as I'm driving home or whatever. And then I get I get a text from you as well, and I check it when I'm in the car, and it's like, what did you say? I wanna find what you said.

Mitchell Davis:

I won't say the number, but it was like, oh, okay. Yeah. Good day, mate. Guess who agreed to the pilot of x number of thousand? Give me a call when you can.

Mitchell Davis:

And my eyes lit up, and I was like, oh, shit. Okay. Here we go. So that was a good that was a good missed call to Yeah. To see.

Mitchell Davis:

I'm glad you sent a message because I was like, oh, alright. And then you didn't pick up when I called you back because you were busy or whatever. So then I was like, I was waiting, and I could I I didn't know who you were talking about. And I said that to you on the call. I was like, mate, I'm sorry.

Mitchell Davis:

I really do try my best to keep up to date on all the different people that you're talking to, but who are we talking about here? And then you explained, and and then I understood. So, yeah, it was good. It was it's a good call to have and a good text to get.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. Well, he sees the vision and, yeah, the vision it's up to you to make us to realize the vision. Right? Yeah. To build the vision.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Gavin Tye:

To execute the vision. Sorry. We've built the vision. Or he has the vision. I've aligned to it.

Gavin Tye:

Now it's up to you to build it.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. Yep. That's it. Am I doing it?

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. But I could be going to Doha, I think, in in November or September this year, which is interesting. Yeah, will be. I told him he's going over there and I said, he's taken a cohort. I said, you put me first on that list if we go work together.

Gavin Tye:

So

Mitchell Davis:

I was like, yep,

Gavin Tye:

done. Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

Cool. This

Gavin Tye:

is our path back in, oh, now we're going back. My goal, I think it was episode number three about my goal, about the Olympics two thousand thirty two. Oh yeah. Episode number three, this ties into that. Yeah.

Gavin Tye:

Will get us into that. Yeah. I like that.

Mitchell Davis:

I like the sound of that. Anyway. Thirty two. Six years away. Crazy.

Mitchell Davis:

Yep. Yep. Anyway. Excellent, mate. Alright.

Mitchell Davis:

So now onto some bummer news. Next item on the card.

Gavin Tye:

For your little community. Yeah. Way to bring it to them.

Mitchell Davis:

Oh. No. Why don't you tell us? This is your

Gavin Tye:

news. This is me

Mitchell Davis:

and mine.

Gavin Tye:

Oh, I thought you talking about dev stuff again.

Mitchell Davis:

No. No. We'll round out the episode with that.

Gavin Tye:

No. We weren't successful in the startup world cup, which is I'm not sure why or anything like that. They haven't given us any feedback yet. Yep. I just think, do you know what I think applying for the startup world cup, applying for the government grants, it's just a distraction from stopping us being successful.

Gavin Tye:

Like I've applied to these things before. Yes. I'm probably not a good grant writer or an app like, and we don't have a deck like, cause we don't pitch. We haven't had to pitch, but I feel like it's all a distraction and potentially as well. And it's another thing that is also is maybe, and we kind of want this, let's be clear.

Gavin Tye:

We want people to misjudge the opportunity because if they think it's a good opportunity, people will copycat and more likely to copycat. Right. So someone I heard a few, like in a podcast or something of a couple of years ago is you need a moat, you need a protective moat around the problem. So you have enough time to build it out because if it was that obvious, you'd have a 100 people doing it and then you'd erase the speed. So I think it's probably, I look at it like a blessing in disguise is we, people are misjudging what it is.

Gavin Tye:

And, and, and it's not, doesn't may, may not necessarily be appealing and go, well, that's okay. Cause we'll keep doing it anyway. And there will be a ten year overnight success. Right. Whereas, Hey, we're not AI for cancer drugs or we're not AI for something.

Gavin Tye:

Right. I also think, well, maybe not that startup world cup, but other things have been rigged as well. That that's not,

Mitchell Davis:

that's no, no. Oh mate.

Gavin Tye:

I know it's rigged. Found out like, Yeah. Anyway, doesn't matter.

Mitchell Davis:

Look, I agree. I think, like, the the companies that I look up to, you know, the transistors of the world and and some of the, like, the other people that are in the Laravel space that I know more about their businesses, like, they didn't get there through these sorts of opportunities. They got there through they had a good business, and they picked a good market, and they executed on it really well. Right? Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

And some some of it is luck, but it as far as I know, for a lot of the businesses that I'm into and that I look up to, like, they they didn't get success through this sort of stuff or through funding or whatever. It's just good product at the right time, you know, and that's what I in an ideal world, that's what I hope we achieve. Yes. It would have been nice to get the 97,000 in in a grant or to get some more exposure or something through something like this, but we'll just keep chipping away at it and hopefully, yeah, we would Yeah.

Gavin Tye:

But I do think even like when was it like even a startup woke up, was like, damn it, we could have done with that exposure. And then we're like, hang on a sec. We've got a massive thing of exposure coming already. And then plus this other pilot that we're doing is another decent amount of exposure. Like what else do we want?

Gavin Tye:

We don't want too much.

Mitchell Davis:

Right. And

Gavin Tye:

I'd take a lesson.

Mitchell Davis:

I don't know. No. We could always use more. Too much.

Gavin Tye:

Too much too soon. Let's put a caveat on that. Let's put a condition on that. But I also my founder at Redeye, he was out doing so much stuff and not necessarily focused on growing a business. He was, he was, his attention was very diluted.

Gavin Tye:

And I'm very conscious of that where there's, have you heard of Octopus Deploy?

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. Yeah.

Gavin Tye:

So they do all, I'm pretty sure they do all dev courses and stuff. Okay. He's in Brisbane. Right? Octopus Deploy.

Gavin Tye:

And Paul is his name, Octopus Deploy Tool. He billion dollar valuation, never heard of the guy's name until it come out into paper. He just didn't do any of that. He just put his head down, build a business.

Mitchell Davis:

Right?

Gavin Tye:

And so I think that's just what we need to do is just put our heads down and just keep doing what we're doing because we're winning. It's fucking hard winning clients, but we're winning some ones that could move the needle. Right? Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. We'll get there, mate. Okay. You've got one final thing here and then I'll take it away, Ernie, as they say.

Gavin Tye:

Well, this is to jug close out on

Mitchell Davis:

the multiple balls problem as well, where I was like, we're talking about fitness and all this kind of stuff last week.

Gavin Tye:

I did take, I've been thinking about when I've been training, because I've been training at the gym, doing a certain, I don't want to say it because everybody says it when they do it and I, CrossFit. All right. I say that. There's a joke. How do you know when someone's doing CrossFit?

Mitchell Davis:

They'll tell you.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. You don't need to worry. They'll tell

Mitchell Davis:

you.

Gavin Tye:

But I've gone back to this gym and I really like it, but I also like training for goals. So I signed up for the Gold Coast to Brisbane or Brisbane to Gold Coast, a 100 K bike ride in August, August 23. And, yeah. Yeah. So, I just thought I'm gonna do that.

Gavin Tye:

So which may tomorrow's a Saturday. We're recording this on a Friday. I'll get up in the morning, go for a ride for 50 Ks, 60 Ks. And I'll just do that for the next eight weeks is a good, good reason to exercise. So yeah.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

Mate, that's awesome. Good on you. Yeah. That's a that's a big ride. And you you have told me about this.

Mitchell Davis:

So we were talking about it earlier and you're like, yeah, it's not that much.

Gavin Tye:

So thirty four hours. Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

Still, it's a lot.

Gavin Tye:

Well, mate, mate, come on. You've done 12 or 13 k's, mate, in the past. I

Mitchell Davis:

know. That's right.

Gavin Tye:

You don't need to do it. Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

No. I well, that's right. But on that note, yeah, you messaged me, on Wednesday, I think, about the twelve hour walk. 12hourwalk.com. You said, I'll do this if you do.

Mitchell Davis:

I was like, I'll think about it, but my gut says no. Yep. And then I did think about it. And you said back to you. And I and I said, I'm not taking it on.

Mitchell Davis:

I got enough shit on my plate right now. You're you're in, like, expansion mode, I think, at the moment, and I'm in contraction mode of like, I got too much going on. I need to do less. So

Gavin Tye:

I'm in ordering mode. I don't think I can wind things back. I've gotta get things in order. Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

So yeah. Yeah. Well, we're both both dealing with lots of stuff at the moment, but yeah, I was like, I could have said yes and then probably done this walk. That's to be clear. That's a long walk.

Mitchell Davis:

That's long day.

Gavin Tye:

Right. 60 Ks. It's probably 60 Ks.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot. And, but I probably could have done it. I definitely could have done.

Mitchell Davis:

Right. But I don't want more stuff on my plate right now. I got enough. And so I've actually felt proud of saying no and being

Gavin Tye:

clear Oh, about I'm glad you brought that up. You've been shutting me down a heap this week.

Mitchell Davis:

Have I? Yeah. On what? On what? Tell me.

Gavin Tye:

You did something the other day. You're like, nah. No. I'm gonna say no on that. And I was like, oh, fuck off.

Mitchell Davis:

No. No. That was yeah. That was on the on the your neon sign.

Gavin Tye:

I'm glad that you're, I'm glad that you you're saying no to things and you're narrowing your,

Mitchell Davis:

my my focus. Yeah. Okay. Alright. That's better.

Mitchell Davis:

That's better, mate. But I one, I didn't I didn't need a neon sign, and I didn't wanna get it just for the sake of it to spend another couple $100. Yeah. Right? And then the only other no was on the twelve hour walk, which I think is reasonable.

Mitchell Davis:

That's a big ask. Right? So you can, by all means, you go ahead and do it. You'd be super mad. And I'll just

Gavin Tye:

most interesting thing on a walk like that is I've done it before. Right? When I was training for like a Kokoda walker, like a, not a Kokoda truck as a Kokoda walk here in Brisbane is there's a, my mind is busy. It always is always thinking that comes when you do a walk, like I think I did a five or six hour walk once and you get to a point then all of a sudden your your brain shuts off. It doesn't walk.

Gavin Tye:

It doesn't and it's just silence. And it is really nice.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. I have had that happen in in on my 12 or 13 k walks before where I'm just like, I got nothing left. So I don't need twelve hours for that. I could do that in like twenty minutes. I can turn it off.

Mitchell Davis:

So Fair enough. Yeah. Yeah. Think you take it to a hotel. I think

Gavin Tye:

I will do it. It's just that walking from here, I'm gonna have to drive somewhere to walk and then come home. Cause it's a it's not the easiest place to walk 60 k's from here. Sure. Yeah.

Gavin Tye:

I I can imagine.

Mitchell Davis:

Cool. Alright. Well, congrats on signing up for that 100 k ride.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. Or if anyone wants to donate to raise money for cancer, we'll give you a link. You can put it in the show notes. I don't like yeah. That'd be lovely, but I don't anticipate all our thousands of listeners to, do that.

Gavin Tye:

But thank you in advance. If any of them do.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. Thank you. Alright. My turn for some boring nerd shit. So, we have started a lot of the talk.

Gavin Tye:

What are talking about? I've been waiting for this from the beginning.

Mitchell Davis:

I'm sure you have. We have started a migration for our database from MySQL to Postgres. Why don't you tell us about it, mate?

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. So what we wanna do is go to offline mode, and we need to change the way we structure our data. So That's pretty good. We're not gonna go to the typical graph type database. We're gonna go to Postgres.

Mitchell Davis:

Did I get it? Sounded confident. You did not look confident at all. Your face, like, gave it away.

Gavin Tye:

Was that right?

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. And no. We're not graph. We're not

Gavin Tye:

having a graph graph database. We don't need that, do we?

Mitchell Davis:

No. That's exactly. No. We don't. So we are making this move.

Mitchell Davis:

The end goal is to be able to support using a technology called electric and electric SQL, I think, or electric sync. I don't know. They've changed their names a few times. Eventually, what it will give us though is offline mode for the mobile app and Yep. Being able to open up the app, be able to see everything that you've got access to even if you're offline, and then, have the app get back into sync when you go back online.

Mitchell Davis:

And this will be relevant for athletes coming to Perth for the police games because you can imagine there'll be a lot of them coming from overseas. They won't have bought like a SIM card or whatever. And so they might be relying on getting around in the app even without network until they can get back on hotel Wi Fi or whatever. So Yep. We wanna support that.

Mitchell Davis:

I've long wanted to support that even prior to the police games. Think like an event app, you probably should be able to use it offline. And that it also one, benefits a customer, but two, it benefits us as well from an infrastructure standpoint because if we've got any database issues or something, while an event is running, it gives us that resiliency. Right? You go, okay.

Mitchell Davis:

Well, actually, the app you've already got all the key data on there. Maybe some of the real time things don't work, but you can still use the service. Right? So yeah. So that's been a big, like, learning curve for me because I I haven't known really.

Mitchell Davis:

I don't know much about Postgres even still. From what I know,

Gavin Tye:

it's about it?

Mitchell Davis:

No. That's alright. That's the episode's long enough. Okay. The from what I understand about it, a lot of huge businesses use Postgres, and so it's got a lot of support for a bunch of different things that MySQL doesn't have out of the box.

Mitchell Davis:

Specifically why we need to make this change is because electric runs on top of Postgres. It's a little complicated, but yeah. I I I do feel like I sat down and I did some research and I looked at all the different options that we could go with, and it feels like electric is probably the best one for us. Yeah. And yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

So, ultimately, we're giving it a crack. We're trying to get this done to the way that we went about this was I asked Martin. So earlier I talked about Raymond who's working on the mobile app. Martin has been focused on this, and he's been going through he did a proof of concept last week to, show me a version of our, dashboard running on Postgres. Yep.

Mitchell Davis:

Worked well. He learned a bunch. It's a bunch of code changes that we had to make to support Postgres instead of MySQL. So he's got all of that stuff done. And then our database migrations, so this is a bit nerdy, sorry, but our database migrations, I found out you can't in Postgres, you can't add columns and put them like after a certain other column.

Mitchell Davis:

They always just get added onto the end of the table. And that really bums me out because when I the second we go add a new column to some you know, we wanna support some new feature in the app. We've gotta update the database to support that. Now our columns are gonna get really ugly. And that's fine.

Mitchell Davis:

It won't have any impact on the application or the way that it works or whatever, but it'll just look ugly because now our columns are gonna be gross. So if anyone out there has any workaround for that where I can keep my timestamp columns at the end, let me know, please. Shoot me a message on on Twitter, let's say.

Gavin Tye:

Journey at

Mitchell Davis:

Go with that. You can send us an email. Journey@6Sides.co. That's a good idea, mate. So, anyway, so that's that's one thing.

Mitchell Davis:

We're kinda working through it. But, yeah, there's some fun stuff going on. We're looking at Terraform to spin up the server that needs to attach to our Postgres database. We've spun up Postgres database on PlanetScale. So we haven't made this migration yet.

Mitchell Davis:

We are still running our app on MySQL on PlanetScale. But over the next couple weeks, we will hopefully complete this transition well ahead of this August 17 deadline or whatever it is, mid August deadline that we've got. Yep. So yeah. So that's that's a bit of fun.

Mitchell Davis:

Ages ago, way back, you know, on the show, probably a year ago at this point now, we were talking about, TinyBase and how we were using Cloudflare durable objects. It was a little complicated. It's not the easiest technology to work with that I that I found. So we never quite did it, and I've always felt a bit bad about that because we kind of had that out there of, hey, this is how we're running it, but we we didn't quite get it. I'm pretty confident that this will be the right move for us.

Mitchell Davis:

So should give us a bunch of app benefits plus also infrastructure benefits for the sake of being slightly more complicated than just a typical API crowd operations, setup.

Gavin Tye:

Okay. Sure.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. It's, it's interesting. I'm gonna put some links in the show notes to this electric sync stuff. You check it out and, yeah, send us an email if you've got any advice on any of this. Alright?

Gavin Tye:

Cool. Well, last, do

Mitchell Davis:

you have questions?

Gavin Tye:

No, I've got nothing to say there, mate. You seemed like you covered

Mitchell Davis:

it. Nice.

Gavin Tye:

I did watch a video the other day. Remember I talked about a guy called Errol that I met from Inductive and he had the YouTube channel cura.ai. Watched one of his videos the other day and he was talking about apple. Apple is about to release the M5 pro chip MacBook pro and the ultra. Have you heard about that?

Gavin Tye:

I'll I'll give you his video. It's really interesting. He's saying apple is making a play to put the, to put AI on your desktop. So you don't have to put everything in the cloud. Like you can run first locally.

Gavin Tye:

And so you're protecting IP, which I think is really interesting.

Mitchell Davis:

And a lot cheaper too. Yeah.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. Way, way cheaper. He was saying

Mitchell Davis:

your own power. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the M five chips are already out.

Gavin Tye:

Yep. The ultra?

Mitchell Davis:

This is the ultra out? No. Ultra. At least not in the MacBook pro.

Gavin Tye:

Yeah. So he says it's coming. Yeah. Yeah. And he's saying for the price of $10 amortized over three years, he goes, the cost of it is way cheaper.

Gavin Tye:

Like, right. Okay. Yeah. It was a really interesting video. He got picked up by, I don't, I hopefully I'll see him today, but see what the conversation was he was having with Apple.

Gavin Tye:

They want him to go speak somewhere. So but it's Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

I think you mentioned last week. Yeah. Yeah. It's I mean, it's interesting. It would be good.

Mitchell Davis:

I think we're gonna be able to I'm hopeful we're gonna be able to leverage some of the AI models, LLM models on device for translations of user generated content in our mobile app.

Gavin Tye:

Okay.

Mitchell Davis:

We're already thinking about that down the line because Apple at least has announced, hey, this is how you invoke LLMs on device. Mhmm. And so that's like a part of the WWDC stuff that I've been watching lately. I'm sure Google's on that already. They they probably already have that out there.

Mitchell Davis:

But, yeah, like, you'll go on Twitter and you'll see a post from someone overseas in another another language and it's just automatically translates it for you. Now they could be doing that via some sort of Google translate or whatever, right, and calling out to that and that is one option that we have. But another option is okay just give that text to an LLM and have it translate into your device language, you know. Gotcha. And so I think we might be able to do that for our app.

Mitchell Davis:

But the good thing is that doesn't have to come until later in the year or towards the start of early next year. So Yep. Yep. I've got some time there and the tech will keep improving. But Okay.

Mitchell Davis:

Yeah. It's, it's fascinating. So, yes, I have heard a bit too on the coding front about being able to use models on your own device. I think that's that would be really cool. Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

I dunno the quality of them versus like a proper frontier model, remains to be seen.

Gavin Tye:

But Yeah. He did say that some of the frontier models of course are gonna stay in the cloud, but some of them, which is the use case. Like, I can see the use case for you, but what about for me? Like, I'm not sure how that might play out. Yeah.

Mitchell Davis:

Because I mean, certain each use case is gonna be a little different with, okay. Yeah. Sure. I could I'm so here's an example. Our language translator, let's say, can probably be a pretty old and dumb model.

Mitchell Davis:

Right? Because it doesn't rely on new information. Languages haven't really changed all that much, you know, versus some new coding framework or whatever comes out. And now I need a model that kinda knows how to do that. Or you might need something in the sales space, like, you know, whatever.

Mitchell Davis:

I think there's there's lots of room there for different use cases. So it is cool. Hopefully, we can stop paying as much for AI subscriptions. That would be nice. Anyway, mate, why don't we wrap it up?

Mitchell Davis:

Where can people find you online?

Gavin Tye:

Mate, on LinkedIn. Yeah. LinkedIn. Gavin Tye.

Mitchell Davis:

So you don't you don't wanna branch it out?

Gavin Tye:

Out about But we're about to, I'm not gonna, I'm gonna start my YouTube channel up again yet, but I'm not ready for that.

Mitchell Davis:

It's actually already in the show notes. It's been there for a year now. So yeah. So if you wanna check out Gavin on YouTube as he starts it up, whenever that might be, if if and when, no pressure, you can check out the show notes for that.

Gavin Tye:

I have this self conscious thing where whenever, if you pause a video of myself on YouTube, I'd make these funny faces, but then I realized everyone makes funny faces when they're talking on YouTube. Right.

Mitchell Davis:

I was doing it to Tucker

Gavin Tye:

Carlson the other day and I'm like, oh Jesus, he does it too. Like, no.

Mitchell Davis:

But yeah. Yeah. Definitely. It's everyone. Well, you can find me everywhere in the show notes.

Mitchell Davis:

It's Mitch Dav all the time. Alright. Mate, good one. Happy 60 episode. It's very nice.

Mitchell Davis:

We did it. And I hope you have a good week, and we'll catch your next episode. See you, mate.