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Paddles Ready is your go-to podcast for everything happening in the world of paddle racing.
Hosted by Dougie and Hando, the show brings you inside the sport with race reviews, real-time commentary, and conversations with paddlers from across the globe. Whether itโs breaking down major competitions, sharing behind-the-scenes stories, or hearing directly from the athletes shaping the sport, this podcast keeps you connected to the pulse of paddle racing.
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โI don't know if this sport is ready for the Olympics- Mm-hmm ... especially when you consider the amount of people it takes for a standard boat.
Paddles ready.
When was the last time you were in a dragon boat?
Last time I was in a dragon boat. Uh, la-la-la-la-la-la-la.
I had never heard about dragon boating. It was a completely new concept to me.
How many people join our sport by default from the corporate arena?
Dragon boating isn't mainstream like your rugby, your hockey, your swimming- Yeah ... your netball- Mm. Mm ... your cricket. That's where Paddles Ready and the Paddles Ready team globally are bringing it to that. The best paddlers of my generation are probably have never held a paddle in their hand at the moment.
I, I can never see myself without being on the water.
I mean, does dragon boating really need the Olympics or is it just a pipe dream that a couple guys have just thought up? Mate, I'm getting a little bit fed up with the Olympic talk. I have to be honest. I'm, uh-
Paddles ready
This is Paddles Ready, the global voice of paddle sports, live commentary, race coverage, athlete stories, and expert analysis from across the world of paddling. From dragon boat racing to ocean ski, this is where the competition, the culture, and the stories come together. Let's get into it
Pando, how are you?
Douglas, I'm very close to you today. I
know. What does that mean? That means we have a special guest in the- Ooh ... uh, studios. Just sitting, uh, to my right.
Oh. We'll get it. We'll, we, we'll, we'll, we'll wait till we pan across, but wow, what a guest.
I know. This guy, and, uh, he's been around the world, let me tell you.
He started at, uh, club level down at the Currumbin Dragons in Queensland, Australia. Yep. Went, uh, state level, went national level.
Sunny Coast machine.
Sunny Coast machine, exactly. Um, he has done everything in dragon boating, I believe, from reading at the bio. Mm-hmm. He joins us today, and at paddles ready, you and I.
Welcome Ben Livingstone.
Thank you, guys. Thanks for having me. It's an honor.
Oh, welcome, mate. Welcome.
But we should address the elephant in the room. You've had some pretty big guests on the show, right?
Yep.
You've had Claudio, Tommy, Julie, Ben- Yeah ... and now you've got Ben from Sunshine Coast. No, we've got an athlete.
What's happened to the budget?
How good. The, the, the- We've got to discuss this ... the, the budget, the
budget's
gone down a bit People out there are gonna be going, "Hang on. What's going on
here?" But we love Ben. Well, it's not just the Sun- Yeah. It's not just the Sunshine Coast. It's the Sunshine Coast Dragon Boat Outrigger Canoe Club.
That is correct.
So, uh, you were telling us early in the, you know... Let's, let's just go back for a little bit of history. Your journey started in dragon boating at the Currumbin Dragons.
It did. It started a little bit before that. I beco- I came across dragon boating kind of by mistake. Kind of stumbled into it through a corporate regatta.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, I did it. I had never heard about dragon boating. It was a completely new concept to me. I'd always been pretty sporty in my younger days, and I did a lot of rugby, I did a lot of surf life saving, boxing, MMA, martial arts. But I was kind of getting a little bit older, and I- really didn't enjoy going to the gym and things like that, and I kind of came across this sport of dragon boating and-
Still competitive by nature, I'd say Yeah.
Well, it re- reignited my competitive- Yeah ... yeah How good ... thing. And I remember the very first race I did, the guy next to me turned to me and said, "You really like this, don't you?" And I said, "I effing love this."
Yes.
A week later I joined Currumbin Dragons.
Nice.
And here I am today. And that was it. It changed my whole path of life.
And the corporate thing, was that through work or you just
invited?
It was through work. Yeah The, uh, The Mighty Gemlife that I was part of, uh- Oh, beautiful ... I believe you've heard
that Adrian Pullic. We, we, we
love Adrian. Adrian Pullic, yeah, we do love Adrian Pullic in the paddling scene. He sponsored a, an event called Paddle for Kids.
Mm-hmm. They were the major sponsor. Yes. And it wasn't a matter of whether I wanted to compete, it was, "Well, Ben, you will be competing." Yeah.
That was on the Gold Coast?
That was actually in Brisbane. It's on the- South Bank. Oh, on the Brisbane River. It was a phenomenal event. Yeah, yeah. It was for the Royal Brisbane Hospital- Right
and it was a great-
Yeah ... event Well, that was 2018 and '19. I've, I actually paddled in that.
It was fantastic.
Isn't it amazing? And we've already gone down our first segue here, and we're- We've straight away, we're gone ... we've been going for 45 seconds. But anyway, as we said, it's like sitting around and having a couple beers with a mate and talking the sport that we love.
Just quickly, how many people join our sport by default from the corporate arena and, you know, putting on, um, regattas around the world? And it is, and it's worldwide, but so many people come into the sport from just a corporate- Oh ... a corporate day out with mates and with their office fellow, you know, and all that.
You kind of, yeah.
I don't think enough. Yeah. I don't know if we do enough of these corporate style regattas. Uh, for me, again, in this country at least, dragon boating isn't mainstream like your rugby, your hockey, your swimming- Yeah ... your netball- Mm ... your cricket. Uh, so for me it was about actually discovering the sport.
Yeah.
So I discovered that through these corporate regattas, and if it wasn't for these corporate regattas, I wouldn't be doing this today.
A- and Ben, we discussed that a few weeks ago. One of the bucket lists is a massive corporate regatta initially in Hong Kong, which is Stanley- Yeah ... where I first got it.
You'd love to go there. The Diggers are actually going there next week. Right. So you've gone from corporate, you've got that competitive edge, that, that competitive nature about you- Tell us about your journey and, and, and, and what compelled to go from where you were at Currumbin, obviously knowing work commitments took you up the Sunny Coast, and for all you global vi- view- viewers, we are in God's country, Queensland.
It's not a bad place to
live. But- No, exactly ... just give us a bit really quickly how it went, where it go, and, and, and what was your motivation?
Look, humble beginnings. I wouldn't even say I was a natural paddler when I began. Um, I still don't class myself as a natural paddler. I was definitely a natural athlete.
Yep.
Uh, I, I don't think I had any expectations at first. Hmm. Really, it was just about the friendship, the community. Hmm. Um, Currumbin Dragons, again, a very small club. Uh, Faye Rollings out there, Phil Rollings, they gave me the fundamentals of the sport, uh, and the tools to be able to compete at high levels.
Uh, and when it came to state team, there's something about representing your state, and I know this goes out globally, but in Australia, representing Queensland, representing New South Wales- Yeah ... it's a big deal. Hmm. We have the State of Origin which, uh, for the listeners out there, that's a rugby league game.
Yep. And it's so competitive. So wearing that maroon Queensland jersey for me, that was a big deal.
Yep. Nice.
And then the natural progression there is, you know, to wear the green and gold of your country, to have the coat of arms across your heart. Yep. That's,
that's the summit.
That's next, that's next
level.
That's the summit. Yep. And that, as an athlete for me, that was my vision. Uh, that's what I wanted. I naturally kind of when I do something, I go right into it. But in saying that, look, I've got teammates at the Sunshine Coast, Dougie, and you know, and you've got people in, in Typhoon.
Yep.
Uh, that that's not what they want.
That's not their vision to neces- they've got the talent. Yeah. Um, probably more talent than myself at Sunshine Coast. Geez, if you were the Australian coach, you should be knocking on that door right now and saying, "How do we motivate these guys?" Oh.
Really. De- Deb and John up there, we've talked about the- Yeah
the Matthews family, and I think they were gonna get young James on ano- that's a, that's another great, uh, element to, uh, another paddling history. But we saw them, uh, Sunny Coast first when, and you were paddling in, when I was commentating in Ravenna.
Mm-hmm.
Which was fantastic. So you've, you've done the, the, the, you've done the clubs, you've done the states, you've done the club crew, the Auroras, which is the pinnacle, Dougie rep- Yep
as he just said, representing that green and gold. Just like when you're representing Canada, America, Argentina, Holland. What was the f- what motivates you and, and what gave you motivation to get there and, and what was that like as a sacrifice to either your club, your family, your work/life balance? Yeah, exactly.
'Cause Fitting it all in
Reaching national lev- level, uh, it goes beyond club. Y- you, it is a reflection of yourself. You have to be the very best version of yourself.
Yep.
Uh, it becomes a very selfish quest, and as a result, the sacrifice to your family in particular-
Mm. Mm ...
is huge. Yeah. The sacrifice to even your work, if you don't have a boss, you know, even with Gemlife, they were extremely supportive of my journey.
I remember I had to take Adrian to lunch and say, "Mate, look, I've got the invite. I can say no."
Mm-hmm. "
But to be able to do this-" Here's, here's my itinerary.
Yep.
It's gonna take
a while. And is this the training and the traveling?
It's the training-
And the com- the competition?
It's the traveling.
Yep.
And there's costs associated.
Right.
You know? So it is a big commitment, um, for families- Yeah ... to take it aboard. And one of the major sacrifices and one of the things I remember w- most about representing Australia is when I was over in Thailand, I actually missed my son's third birthday.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Um, and that was huge because I'd accomplished this massive achievement, this, this goal that I set out to achieve, and I was so proud of myself, but there was a day where we were doing training and I, I just broke down.
Yeah. Mm. In the middle of it. Yeah. Think I broke down. And people coming, "Are you all right?" Because I'm not one that really shows my emotions.
Yep.
And I couldn't control myself because I thought, "What a selfish guy. I'm over here right now-"
Mm. "...
and my wife's, you know-" Got your little man ... "over there with my, my son."
Yeah. "They're in the park. They've got a birthday going."
I'm tearing up now, Dougie.
And- Yeah, I know. Yeah ... it was, it was a realization for me of the sacrifice I had to make to get to where I wanted to selfishly be.
Yep. Yeah. No.
Um, but also one of the best memories, uh, was that evening my, my whole team came into my hotel room.
They'd organized a cake. That's great. They'd organized candles, and every one of them sung Happy Birthday to my son. Aw.
Oh, you would've loved that.
So that's what it's like when you're at that level. Yeah. Because they understood that commitment. They understood that sacrifice.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and the drive. And did you keep your job?
I did keep my job at the time. Yeah, certainly. Look, he, he, he definitely supported me. He supported the team as well. So Gem Life, uh, and Living Gems. Yes. Uh, two great brands in the over 50s market. Oh, it pr-
probably looked
pretty good right behind here. I think it would, wouldn't it, Dougie? Yeah. If you, if you, if you have a good- Adrian, you on your phone
if you have
a good
contact with Adrian. Look, he's a great guy. Maybe, uh... look, he did support the Auroras that year as well. He certainly supported the senior A's- Yep ... uh, with a lot of funding, and that helped- Is that
with Chickie?
Senior... oh. No, that was with Martin Pavlica. Martin. Good old Martin. Uh, P- Pavelka.
Pavelka. Pavelka. Um, who's another phenomenal coach, phenomenal human in this industry.
How does the, uh, training regime look and is set when you're in the Aussie team? Uh, is a lot of it on your own and you only when you come together? You know, like, when you're getting ready, you obviously gotta go home.
Mm-hmm. Your paddler's in Perth, you've got paddlers in Adelaide. Yep. When do you come together as a team, or where do you go, and, you know, what's that look like as far as training for the Auroras once you're in?
Yeah, great question. It, it comes down to state-based training at the end of the day. Mm-hmm. So all the Queensland Auroras will get together weekly, three times a week- Yep
for sessions. We also have land programs, gym programs, strength endurance programs- Uh, and then we come together, whether it monthly, three-weekly. There's, there's an itinerary of when we get together, and they'll normally pick a state in Australia, and again, for those listening from overseas, Australia's a huge country.
Yeah. Well-
Uh, so we, we-
The territory that some, you know, s- someone's up there in Cairns or Townsville and they've, they've made the team, you know?
It's- WA. Yeah. We had, we had people coming from Western Australia, which is an eight-hour flight, um, you know, to come to Queensland to train with us. To train.
Yeah. Um, and the cost- And that
goes in saying of
what you're saying, yeah ... associated with that is extreme, you know? Yeah. So if you do have the talent to make the Auroras, and the drive and the commitment, you've also got those family sacrifices- Mm ... you've got to make, financial sacrifices- Yeah ... you've got to make.
A lot of the Auroras, when it comes to work, uh, that's their holiday. Yeah. So they take their holiday. And
that's what we spoke about on a previous podcast. We actually, a podcast coming up, not to give away any secrets, we talk about being a paddler's partner.
Yeah.
Like, the, on the other side, you know, who, who you're leaving at home.
And like you said, sometimes when we're at these regattas, we're seeing mum, dad, nana, the grandkids, and they come together as a holiday. And that's the thing.
A family holiday. That's the thing. Anyone can paddle. And growing what we're doing globally, getting athletes like Ben, um, you know, we talked to, to Tommy.
He's developing a whole, USA have just developed a whole youth program. Mm. Australia is, with, with Deb Moran, we're going a different level, 'cause you have to step up.
Yeah.
Um, paddles ready, we're Passionate Queenslanders. That's it. When we, when we get going, when we get it, mate, we're gonna get behind them.
There you go. What's the, um,
video- And I, I, I wanna kind of dovetail into that. Like, it is so important to involve family. So my current coach, uh, Deb Matthews, uh, she understands that. Mm.
Mm.
So for my first Christmas party with dragon boating, my wife's kind of like, "Look, dragon boating, that's his thing." So-
Yeah
she was, everyone's invited to the Christmas party. She decided- She didn't wanna go, 'cause that's Ben's thing
Mm-hmm.
Deb Matthews called her and said, "Hang on. We take a lot of time of your husband, and we know how important that is. So we're inviting you and Archer," my son- With you,
yes, your son,
yeah ... "We want you there."
Wow. "Because we know the commitment that you give by allowing him to do what he does, and we know without that he wouldn't be paddling."
Yeah. Awesome.
And it's so important to understand that.
How good. That's great. How good. What, um, getting back to your career, what was the level going from state to national?
You, we, we t- we touched on the State of Origin here in Queensland. Mm-hmm. And, you know, you talk to these rugby league players, and they say going from club level to State of Origin, it's quicker, it's faster, it's stronger, in the blink of an eye. What is the biggest, um, what did you see the biggest change was going from state to national level?
State to national level, if you go to international level and you watch some of the racing at world championships, we're talking a fraction of a second between second place and fifth place.
Yep.
There was so many races we would go over the line, and you have no idea if you came second
or- Or seventh. Yeah.
'Cause, really.
And that's the God's honest truth. Yeah. Because the level is that high that a fraction of a second, and that is where it gets down to the nitty-gritty of you have to do everything you can do as a paddler.
This is the one percenters.
That's the one, the 1% is what kinda gets you- Yeah ... first, second, third, or gets you on a podium.
Yes.
Or, "Hey, it was a good story. We, we all came over together."
Yeah. Gotcha. So a lot quicker and...
A- Everything counts.
Yeah.
And everything's bigger.
Yeah.
The, the- these events, like, we've commentated at them, right? Yeah. We've commentated at the States and, and, and the Aussies and that and club crews and, and each event is different.
Yeah. Mm.
Um, traveling to the events in the US, Canada, Asia are phenomenal. You, you-
I love commentating the Chinese. Yeah.
Well, well, we're off to- It's just fun ... we're off to Taiwan.
Yeah, we're off to
Taiwan. As, as, as you know.
I'm trying to get in on that, Dougie. I'm trying to see, how can I get Hando to-
Yeah.
You could- Mate, get Gemlife to fly you over. Oh,
Gemlife, look, if you're out there, uh-
Yeah ...
Gemlife-
You could be our, you know, down on the foreshore, our roving reporter, Ben Livingston.
100%.
Oh, exactly. How good. How good.
Maybe, you know. Let's talk afterwards.
So we've been, um, we've been, uh, promoting a fair bit, uh, the Olympic Games.
What's your take on it as far as, uh, getting us in there, demonstration sport? Um, we're, we're still at, uh-
I love it when you ask that of Pa- Paddler. He's just pondering- I know ... going, "How can I answer this-" How can I, how
can I answer? ... you know, diplomatically? Di- There's the political answer. Obviously it's about governance.
100%. Uh, anti-doping, and they're the usual questions. I think the sport, and, and, you know, this is where I guess I go from zero to Joe Rogan real quick and- Yeah ... you know, all of a sudden- Great. We like Joe. Let's
go. Let's go, Joe.
Look, in its current state, I don't know if this sport is ready for the Olympics.
Mm-hmm. Especially when you consider the amount of people it takes for a standard boat.
Yep.
It's never gonna happen.
No.
Uh, this is where tradition and innovation need to kind of come together. So we need to preserve the tradition of this sport because that is what I love. That's, that's one of my main loves of this sport, but I'm also huge on innovation.
Yep.
And that may mean
Better materials to build these boats out of. Let, let's see carbon fibre dragon boats, like specific boats, and that might mean eight paddlers or six paddlers I was
gonna say a smaller boat maybe
It's got to be a smaller boat Because you- Because it's got to fit that Olympic model And you've got
to cap, cap numbers
Utilizing athletes that are already there.
These C4, these C2, the C1 guys are
already there It's got to be exciting, right? There, that's it. It's got to be exciting. It's got to be captivating 100 meters It's got to be a spectacle Well, they have the
100 meters in China.
How quick is that? You took the world, the words out of my mouth Yeah 100 meters, 150 meters Thank you But 100 meters in China is, is a normal race Oh, yeah And it is exciting Yeah, yeah
A- a- and, and it's not for everybody.
Even though dragon boating is for everybody, and globally it is for everybody You've got to understand Rugby Sevens went from 15 to sevens. Correct, yeah. But it doesn't mean there's 172 countries competing. They have a qualifying, they come down to 12 countries only that compete at the Olympics.
Yeah.
Gotcha.
You know, but you, you have the IDBF, they're a mini Olympics on their own. Yeah. Club Crew, Club Crews in, in Italy Ravenna, there were 6,800 paddlers.
Right.
That's a mini Olympics. That's
a mini, yeah.
But also let's, let's talk about, go one fur- step further with innovation in this sport.
Yeah.
If you Google hydrofoil kayak verse K1 sprint kayak.
Yeah.
They're putting these kayaks on hydrofoils. Why couldn't we do similar things? You think 50 years ago if I told you that SailGP would be around, where you've got these boats zipping past the screen on hydrofoils- Yeah ... you would say I was mad. Mm-hmm. But that's the kind of innovation that sports like F1- Yeah
SailGP. Absolutely. The
Kevlar,
the, the, yeah. The broadcasting alone, when you look at the infographics and the way they put that together, if, if I was in IDBF or ICF-
Yeah ...
I would be looking at the way they market these sports. Okay. Because I still think we're missing the mark there as far as making it a spectator friendly sport.
Well, that's where Paddles Ready and the Paddles Ready team globally are bringing it to that.
So do we put out the challenge, you know, BYD, Hong Kong Bank.
Jayco. Jayco.
GemLife. GemLife. You know? It
will be good
for- Adrian. Adrian. Call us. Uh, do we put it out there that we do evolve and we have a different series, so it still honors the traditions- Yep, the traditions
that we have, but maybe we kind of move away from that traditional model to make it a spectator sport, just like the Rugby Sevens have done.
Absolutely.
Yeah. To be able to get this in front of people, and by doing those short races, like 100 meters.
Well, when I was up in Hong Kong the other day- That's a start
I was up in Hong Kong the other weekend, and there's, the Friday night was... Oh, Hong Kong, sorry. Singapore. Singapore. Singapore, and the Friday night race with the night li- and smaller boats, and it was a sprint series.
All,
all lit up. It was all just sprints. All lit up. All
lit up.
Look, I've, I've said this before and, and you've blown my, my...
Look, I've said to DBQ what I would love to do, I would love to have a nighttime race- Yeah ... where all the boats are lit up. They do it over in Asia. Oh, it's unreal. It was fantastic. So it's nothing new. Yeah. But who wouldn't want to go to a regatta like that?
Absolutely, and they've got the professional series in China.
You think about when you, when you go back to corporates, like e- even if you go back, we'll segue in a little bit. I know we- No, no ... I know we're time thing. Poor. But when I paddled for, for, uh, Scarborough Outrigger, you had Hutchies, GemLife or, or, or, or Paddle for Kids, but we personally raised, um, $8,000. But then, then you start putting a banker's challenge like they do in, in Stanley Yeah, in Stanley
uh, uh, a, a construction corporate. But, and guess what? I think, Ben, in the next four years that's where something... 'Cause you're part of... By the way, Ben is also on the committee of, uh, DBQ. Is that correct?
Yeah, board member of DBQ. Yeah.
Board member of DBQ. We can take it to the youth because the youth is where it's at.
Yes, definitely.
New South Wales and Victoria are doing it way better than us in Queensland. We're gonna get the Olympics, we're gonna get a purpose-built rowing facility, whether it's Lawnton or not. We've got the Paddle Games coming up in '30.
Ben- It's exciting times It's, there's a lot going
on ... Ben's part of the Paddles Ready team really, really soon, and we'll get this youth ramping
up.
A tailor who does the, uh, corporate stuff well, and I've been following him on Facebook, is, uh, over there in Wellington in New Zealand. Yeah. How-
They do a great job ... how good- They do a, they do an unbelievable job ... their, um- They do a great job with their marketing as well ... their marketing, their- It's an event I haven't done, but I would love to do it
yeah, their
marketing, their media. Yeah. Um, I mean, they got dr- it's... I mean, it's-
Well, we do have the one in Sydney, Doug. We, we've got the Chinese- Yeah ... Festival New Ye- in, in Chinese New Year in Sydney.
Which is another bucket list thing I'd love to do. Yeah. What's, what's that? The...
Uh, it's down in Sydney Harbor there.
Oh, I can't remember its name. Uh, yeah. Forgive
me. Good backdrop. But- But the one in Welly, geez, that looks good. Whoever's running- Choice churro ... whoever, whoever's running that show knows what they're doing, that's for sure.
Definitely. We can't just kinda keep doing the same thing. This sport is 2,000 years old or- Yeah
2,000-odd years old. It's one of the oldest sports in the world. Why hasn't it got the gig on the Olympics, which is one of the other things that's- Mm. Mm ... that's 3,000 years old?
Well, well, I'll ask you this-
And I think that we need to be innovative in our approach.
Yeah. In Queensland I've, what, since I've been seeing, since I've been back, lotsa clubs up at Sunny Coast, lotsa schools- Mm-hmm
are trained. We should tag them on as a schools cup. Look, I don't think they need to be... Yes, they sign waivers for- you know, regulatory environment, sorry, sorry, compliance for, uh, insurance and that. But do the kids really have to pay 300, $250 to be a member just to compete in one race when we want to try and get them into the sport?
Absolutely not. Good. They can go in through a DragonPass and things like that to give them a month free. Yeah. But if they want to be part of a club, there's obviously club fees, and there's, there's obviously state body and, and- Mm ... regulatory fees and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I do also want to say this, we are in a time now where cost of living is- Mm.
Out of control ...
at peak proportions. Mm. We have parents that are choosing to put their kids in sport or, or food on the table.
Yes. True.
Which is unfathomable to think that.
Mm.
Dragon boating is the most accessible sport. It is still, if you... I can only speak for Queensland, the state I'm in now, but it would have to be the cheapest sport out there.
Mm.
I, I, I can't think of a cheaper sport than, than dragon boating. Mm. And when you think of it as an inclusive sport, on any given weekend you can have a brother and a sister in a boat with their parents and their grandparents in the same boat on the same weekend.
That's, that's beautiful. That's
the sport.
Yeah.
That's the sport we have. So when you talk about rowing at schools, which can become quite elitist, uh, you have to be a certain body shape or height- Yeah ... and all these kind of things, dragon boating you can be any shape, size, because there is a position in the boat for you. For everyone. Males, females can paddle together.
I don't have the answers of how to get this in the schools. This is something I want to work with- Mm ... in, in Dragon Boat Queensland. I think we can, we can- I'd love to have you involved, Dougie. Yeah. I know I've spoken to other coaches that are really passionate about building the youth, because at the end of the day, the youth is the answer.
That is, that is the direction of this sport. The best paddlers of my generation are probably have never held a paddle in their hand at the moment.
Yeah,
agreed. And that's a, that's a scary thing to think. Mm. That they haven't even been introduced or know the sport. If you talk to most people in the street, they don't even know what dragon boating is.
No, they
don't. That's-
When, when I talk about dragon boating people are always a bit confused, and you've got to kind of Google it and show them photos.
Yep. Or videos.
My dream is at some stage this becomes a mainstream sport, that it is part of schools. Mm-hmm. Yes, there's regulations because there's safety issues and stuff.
Yeah. So we need to make sure there's qualified sweeps, uh, there, there's the correct insurances. But getting this into schools, that's-
S- so many school programs ... gonna be a game changer. And, and, and a lot of the pri- dare say it, a lot of the private schools have the accessibility, they have the numbers.
Those kids are, are, are, are, you know, th- they're, they're in the si- the, the... What am I trying to say? They're in the s- the, the like, like framework of in their mind to the behavior content. Like, we live in a, in a country at the moment, as you said- I- i- it is for everyone, but it's not for everybody because a lot of kids get in there and they just don't wanna, they- Don't wanna
they, they, they, they're, they're defiant about everything. Where sometimes if you do get into some of these other, other schools that have the accessibilities where they have their own Lake Mugura or TSS that here. Yeah. We talked about TSS, didn't we? Yeah, we did. We did. Put a boat there. Ben, you ripped
out- Well, well, let's go back to Adrian Pool which he was the captain of TSS.
Yeah. Adrian put a
boat, a dragon boat at TSS. I think it's
just- Yeah ... it's just down there on the, on the foreshore. Put a boat there. You know, when I was in Singapore the other
day- But, but we can't just put a boat there. We've got to have qualified sweeps. Oh, definitely. And, and look- Correct ... there's a lot to it.
I wish, I wish it was that simple, but it's no different to rowing. We've just got to develop the pathways. Well,
that's, that's where you tag it on.
At, at the regattas. Have the, have the competition for them.
Yeah. Yeah. At, at the end of it because these rowers go, they're there from 8:00 in the morning till 3:00.
Four minutes, they're done, or eight minutes in an eight. Hey, by the way, schools where it's, where it's the Head of the River, let's fill out 20 peop- that's four crews.
Mm.
You know? There's, there- Of
course ...
and,
and- And having programs that they can have fun with And they understand the water ... I know when I was a kid, I didn't just want to paddle for 10Ks and then go in.
Yeah. That w- that wouldn't have interested me as a kid. I grew up doing dragon b- uh, surf boat rowing- Yeah ... which, which a lot of young people do, but it was fun, it was engaging. Yeah. And we've got to find ways and the right coaches to be able to kind of put them on that pathway. Motivate them.
Well, we've had a few parents contact us through the, um- Yeah
through the chat, and just saying, "Can you guys please... We're loving the podcast. Can you promote the youth?" One of the girls is in the Auroras. One, I think it was the under-21s or under-19s, I can't remember.
Liv
and- Um- ... and that as
well?
Or- No ... that was
from-
But, um, it's amazing how the parents are now, "Hey Dougie, hey Hando, just wanted to reach out.
Um, can you give us a shout-out? How can we make the youth better? Where do you see it, the marketing?" And, you know, so people are talking about it at their, in their
loungeroom, just for sure. And that's, that's why podcasts platforms like this, this is one of the keys to opening those doors.
Yeah. So you've got something.
Benni Livingston from Sunny Coast. Uh. Queensland Aurora. We've got something that we got a bit of a challenge for Dougie, haven't we?
Yeah, I do have a challenge for Dougie, and we've sprung the... I'm gonna spring this on you, Dougie. Oh, yeah that's right.
This is mine.
Yeah, there we go. I'm getting back.
Look, you're on
a paddling podcast.
Benni's hot take.
When was the last time you were in a dragon boat?
Last time I was in a dragon boat? Uh, la la la la la la la.
That's it. See, that's, that's the thing. Yeah. Right now you've answered the question, right?
Yeah. It was a while ago.
Where do you live?
I just live here at, uh, down the road, here in- So-
on the Gold Coast ...
so I challenge you to come by when you're back. Yep. I know you got an overseas trip.
Yep
When you come back, I want to see you at Currumbin
At
Currumbin? Currumbin Dragons.
Okay.
You know, we've got a great group out there. There's a great group of men.
Yep.
They're small, and I think you'd really enjoy.
I, I know, I know you're- They're
small men? They're small. Where, where, where, where,
where do I fit in? They're, they're, they're... I, I, I'm talking more about the club size. Yes. Yes. So, you know, you're not gonna be overwhelmed by this massive club. They're, they're a great bunch of people, um, where they're- What
a beautiful
place to paddle Yeah, definitely
they're crying out, they're crying out right now for men your age.
Okay.
Um- So
that's the
challenge ... I challenge you to come down and jump in a boat. Okay.
We can do some live- Right, it's done. Oh, we've got the shake. Oh, oh, shake the
hand.
And relive, and relive a bit of this. 'Cause for me, paddling's a state of mind.
If... And my wife knows this. You know, if, if I'm having a bad day, I need to be on the water. I need to get on my OC1. I need to get in a ba- dragon boat.
Yep.
That's my time. I, I can never see myself without being on the water anymore. And what I love about this sport, and this is different to every other sport and why I do this sport, is after you turn 40 it's not, "All right, well, I've got to find ways to kind of get out of it now so I can become a coach or an official."
You know, we've got people that are competing in their 70s and competing at a high level
Yeah. Hmm
In Queensland, uh, alone, you look at some of these legends that are 60, and you've interviewed a few of them- Yeah ... on, on your show. They're, they're in their 60s, and they are phenomenal paddlers. Yep. And the, and the Aurora Seas, mate, there's some talent, the, uh, the guys and girls in that sport.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Um, and 'cause they've lived and breathed this for a long time.
Yep. Mm.
So yeah, we need to build that. We, we need to get you back in a boat.
Okay. I'll jump back in a boat. Let's
ignite that fire.
I will jump back in a boat. Back in a boat. Well, we'll- Well, I was, we were talking about, I was considering jumping back into K1 or doing something like down at Varsity.
Yeah. But, uh, I'll take up the challenge on dragon boat.
Well, you can still do that.
Well, you guys can get in the K2 together. Well- Yeah ...
yeah. One of the final questions for today, what's happening with Ben Livingston? What are you up to, you know, up there on the Sunny Coast? What, what, how's your day and your weeks looking nowadays, um, in 2026?
Look, at the moment I'm just focusing a lot on family. I'm still doing my paddling. Being at the Sunshine Coast, Steel Sharp and Steel, they're a great mob up there. Yeah. These guys on the Sunshine Coast, they keep me, uh, ready. Um, but at the moment it's really about just being a family man. I've got a very patient wife- Yeah
Amy, who looks after me, prepares all my meals, uh, makes sure I'm happy. Uh, and my son, about to turn six. Oh, congrats. Really awesome. Spending time with him. Yeah, definitely. Um, he's at that age where I really enjoy spending time with him at the moment. Yeah. So especially one-on-one time.
Hmm.
Uh, so that's me at the moment.
Look, we've got, uh, Rawras now expression of interest come up. Right So I'm just starting to kind of prepare for that and start to get the body ready.
Yep.
And really the mind ready, because the body's one thing. I think the body's always ready for me.
Mm-hmm.
But it's just saying, "Hey, is this what I want to do?"
Because if we do it-
Yes ...
it's gotta be done right.
What's your role in, uh, Queensland Dragon Boat on the board? You were saying earlier you're on the board.
So I'm board member of DBQ or Dragon Boat Queensland.
Rightio. And that's just, uh, keep them accountable, keep them, uh, decisions, day-to-day decisions for the sport?
Yeah, look, there, there's no specific role. Uh, you, you have a president and then you have board members. Mm-hmm. And our job is obviously to regu- regulate the day, day-to-day running of and, and look after the members that are in Queensland Dragon Boat.
Good stuff. So it sounds like dragon boating's just gonna be in your life forever.
I hope so, yeah. I, look, I, I cannot see myself with a cane Paddle for life. Paddle for
life.
Paddle for life- Paddle for life ... as Mary
says.
There you go. All righty. Well, Hando, that was another one. All
right, mate. Ben-
I want to thank Ben for coming down. Yeah, thank you, brother. No, thank you
guys for having us.
You jumped in
the
car and drove down to us. I was going to play a drinking game as well, so for future episodes.
Yeah.
No, it's just great having athletes on, you know, because, um, and we're gonna have special athletes, uh, that Tommy will bring on and Julie will bring on from North America. Uh, and, you know, we just look forward to, to bringing it to you.
Hope whenever you, whenever you're tuning in, if you're listening-
Yep ...
um, like, subscribe. That's right. That's the big thing. Keep it going. Keep going. We, we, we've really got to, you got to start pumping that, and, and the more momentum we get, Doug, and having super athletes and super fun guys and passionate guys like Ben on the show.
Thank you, Ben.
Thanks, Ben. No, thank you for having us, guys, and thanks for being the global voice of dragon boating.
Yes. Nice. Wink, wink.
Well, one way to sign off. Okay. Thanks, guys.
That's
another challenge in itself. Well, look, we'll see if you remember. We'll see if you remember our sign-off sometimes.
Yeah.
I'm Hando. I'm Dougie.
And I'm Ben.
And we are paddles
ready. Paddles ready. Paddles ready.
Okay, 60 seconds with Dougie. We're with Nina. We're with Nina from AusChamp. Worst excuse you've had for not turning up to training?
Oh, I have to take care of a cat.
Downwind or grind?
Downwind.
Early morning training or sleep in?
Early morning.
What's more important, fitness or technique? Technique. Carbon fiber or wooden paddle?
Carbon fiber.
Coffee before or after training?
Usually before.
Biggest talker on the boat?
Oh, definitely Leonard.
Sprint or distance?
Sprint.
Beers or lemonade after a regatta?
Beers.
Favorite regatta you've competed in? CCWC in Italy. Advice you would give to a new paddler hopping in a boat for the first time?
Mm, enjoy and keep the timing.
And Nina, if I wasn't a paddler, I'd be? In a mad mood. Thank you, Nina. That's 60 seconds with Dougie. Thank you.
Well, Hando, guess what? It's that time of the week.
Ooh,
hot take. Hando's hot take.
Hando's Hando of the day hot take. Yes, what we got? What we got? What we got?
Mate, I'm getting a little bit fed up with the Olympic talk, I have to be honest. I'm, uh... I mean, does dragon boating really need the Olympics, or is it just a pipe dream that a couple guys have just thought up?
Yeah, mate. Because I'm, I'm, I'm over it. Maybe- I'm, I'm, I'm dragon boating- ... dragon boating's
bigger anyway ...
we are bigger-
Absolutely ...
than the bloody Olympics, and let's look at the logistics of trying to get an Olympic team together. I don't know. What's your thoughts?
Well, we've, we've... There's so many hot takes that you've, you've given me and, and you've, you've slid this one straight at...
But yeah, it is. It's, it's... We- we've, we've talked about it before. It's, it's massive. We've talked about it ad- It's 20- ... ad nauseam ... it's 20 in it, and, and it's a lot. Maybe, you know what? Maybe it's got... It's gone because we got Club Crew World Championships. Yeah. We got the World Championships. We're bigger than the Olympics.
Yep.
We shouldn't say that, really.
No. I, I,
I- That's a bit of contentious ...
I get it. I get it.
But we can. They can.
The numbers just don't work. And the sooner that people get on board and realize that the numbers do not work to have dragon boating in the Olympics as far as teams go, I'm all for, don't get me wrong, I'm all for it as a spectacle sport or- Mm
we look at a smaller boat.
Mm. Well, they've got that. They've got the smaller boat, but, but a- again, you know, we're, we're gonna be back and forth each other here and, and, and there's so many opinions out there, but you've got the paddlers. That's, that's what they're gonna do. Yeah. Well, possibly. Again, we've, we've, we've, we've had that because you got the C1s, the K1s, the...
You got all the, the athletes there.
Well, 100%. And I just think w- we can be channeling as a sport our energy, our time, resources. We can... The, the sport's big enough as it is, and it's getting bigger. As you and I spoke today in the car, the sport's one of the largest growing sports in the world for a reason.
It doesn't need the Olympics.
Mm. Mm.
You know? It's a, the Olympics is a, could be a by-product. I can't
see it happening. Hey, if it has a recognition, Paddle's Ready will give it support- Yeah ... and we will always
support it. I'm getting a bit emotional about this one because it should be- Go for it, Dougie. He's emotional
it should, it should be Dougie's hot take today, but I wanted to speak to you about it because I'm over it. Let's move on. Let's get to the world titles, and let's do what we're very, very good at doing.
Calling races.
Calling races. Well, there
you go. Talk about interaction. Races are good everywhere. You, but you know, you, you're thinking about what you said.
It, it is bigger than the Olympics.
Yeah.
Like, participa- this is, this is its own sport. Yep.
And I don't think dragon- Getting- ... dragon boating doesn't need the Olympics.
Yeah. Yeah. It might give it- Well,
like you heard ... it'll put, give it r- world recognition or maybe more recognition, but like I said, it's, it- I think
that's what they need.
They, they want the eyeballs. But-
Yeah. Pardon the pun.
Yeah . Exactly. But again Before two, three months or whatever, before we had Paddles Ready-
Yeah ...
there was no eyeballs and voice on it.
No one was bringing it up.
So-
We were hearing about it-
So y- ... so we thought we'd bring it up You think about disruption.
Yeah.
We've disrupted the whole world in a good way. Yeah. Because we want everyone to hear and share, tune in.
Yeah. And- And I guess this is where we wanna be on that, that platform of, you know, letting everyone the positive, the negatives, and we become just that, you know, sit on the fence and let everyone...
But I'm actually a little bit, uh, bullish on this one.
Oh, he's
bullish. I, I- Dougie's bullish. He's over it. Yeah, I'm over it. I'm over hearing about the Olympics. I can't wait to get to Taiwan. I can't wait to see the best paddlers in the world, and I don't think we need the Olympics at all. And
everyone is training hard.
Let's, and so let's all just move on from
the Olympics. Well, look, if it, if this collapses around us because the Olympics aren't gonna support Paddles Ready, it's on you.
Okay. Sounds good. All right, Hando. It's Hando's Takeout. It was probably a little bit of Dougie's Takeout as well, but, uh- It's a, it's a, it's a
Dougie's, Dougie's Takeout Hot Take.
That's it. All right, mate. I'll see you later. Very
good.
Bye-bye.
See you, buddy.
Well, Hando, that's another one done, mate. What a show.
What a show. They keep rolling in. They're fabulous. They're fabulous. And what's, what I've been loving is what you guys out there have been doing. We are, yeah. Because you are liking, sharing, subscribing.
The numbers are co- getting up now. The numbers are moving along. Ooh. And it's more the interaction that we're getting, the direct messages that I'm getting after every, uh, podcast, people asking me, you know, about the youth. Can you help us here? I haven't changed my number
yet.
No, you haven't changed your number, but, uh, it's been fantastic.
So Hando, I'm Dougie. I'm Hando. And we are Paddles Ready.
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