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Dear Writer, giving and receiving feedback can be hard. Haven't you ever wished you could watch someone else's writing group to see how they do it?
This podcast is focused on just such a writing group. Join authors JC Bybee, Grey Alder, and Tyler Hess as they razz and encourage each other, talk about every writing topic under the sun, and exemplify the subtle art of helping other writers write better.
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;19;05
Unknown
One of my editing techniques is once I finish a piece, I don't look at it again for next. Like, I put it away. It goes away for a month. When I come back and read it, does it feel like what I want it to feel like? Does it fit in the genre that I'm expecting it to fit in?
00;00;19;08 - 00;00;49;19
Unknown
And that's that's how I do it. And again, I write in three different genres right now, so technically four different genres. So, I bounce around a lot between what I'm writing. But yeah, I would say take the approach of, of, I don't know if you have other projects or other ideas. Take some time. Work on a different project for a little bit and then come back to this one and say, does it feel right?
00;00;49;27 - 00;00;55;16
Unknown
And?
00;00;55;18 - 00;01;24;13
Unknown
So I got to my life. Welcome, dear listener to third person POV, a writing POV. Dang it, I agree, you should have done this third person POV, a writing group. You're doing great casts. Thank you so much. My name is Tyler. I am joined by Great Order and Jesse Bybee. And today, special guest, Kim Reed.
00;01;24;15 - 00;01;52;05
Unknown
Kim, how are you? Great. How are you? I feel so weird because we just had a whole conversation before we started recording. But this is great. Kim is joining us today and will likely be joining us many other times. And we are going to introduce her now. She is a half vampire who lives in Chicago. Wait, I'm not the one introducing you, Kim.
00;01;52;05 - 00;02;15;02
Unknown
You introduce yourself. That would be a better idea. Hello, my name is Tim Reed. I'm working on a young adult fantasy novel. I've been working with the development editor to get that out into the world. And then working on a lot of other projects besides. And I'm just happy to be here. Absolutely. Glad you're glad you're with us.
00;02;15;05 - 00;02;36;25
Unknown
And remind me. Remind me. Are you going to self-publish after working with your editor, or are you going to traditionally publish? I'm going to query first. Yeah. Cool. Awesome. Source. Awkward silence as we all think about what we were going to do next. We need to we need to talk about Gem State Con again.
00;02;36;25 - 00;03;03;02
Unknown
We're going to talk about it until it happens. May 15th, 4:00. Garden city. And one of the buildings there. Yes. Center building. I believe I believe it's the I believe it's the the center building of the three, is where the community panel room is located. So that's going to be opening night of Gem State Comic Con.
00;03;03;02 - 00;03;24;00
Unknown
So bring your pompoms and support us and support the con itself. It's going to be awesome. We're definitely not the biggest name there, but we will be names that are there. Yeah. No, don't go there. Yeah, it'll be very interesting. The. I'm just glad we're not going like opposite any of the, as far as I'm aware at least any of the star panels.
00;03;24;02 - 00;03;51;03
Unknown
Yeah. Alan Tudyk or, his costar from Firefly, that's going to be there. Who played Jane in Firefly? He's going to be there. Nice. There's a former Doctor Who and a Doctor Who companion is going to be there. Who? Which I don't know. I don't know who. Yeah, I don't remember. It's one of the older one of the original series, doctor who's going to be there?
00;03;51;04 - 00;04;09;16
Unknown
Yeah. That's awesome. Can I tell you a funny story? Shoot. I'm sorry. This is out of. I have a friend, named Trish, and I'm hearing the second hand, so I hope this really happened. Is it just apocryphal? But she really loves Carly from Firefly. You know, the ones with the the, like, kind of Princess Leia style, but not so.
00;04;09;16 - 00;04;24;28
Unknown
She dressed up that way, and she looks pretty convincing. Apparently, she went to see one of the previous doctors at this con. I don't know if it was last year or the year before, and, he was just fascinated by her hair. Like, how do you get her to do that? So anyway, that's funny. Claim to fame. Yeah.
00;04;25;00 - 00;04;43;06
Unknown
Going to you in places. Yeah. We did actually have a former Doctor Who last year too, I believe. So, yeah. That's cool. And we are all going to cosplay as JK. It's a long the gist of it. It's just.
00;04;43;09 - 00;05;05;07
Unknown
About you two are going to get the screw you JK t shirts and where you really share. That would be funny. Oh respect your elders. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. All right. This is probably going to be a long episode, so let's get into it. We are going to start off with Kim's piece and we are going to now cue future Kim.
00;05;05;10 - 00;05;29;29
Unknown
Hey, guys. Future Kim here. This week I shared with the guys the opening of a new young adult fantasy series that I've been working on called the Ink Bound Tales, and it opens, our protagonist, Arabella. She's at this place called the Imaginarium. It's this magical, enchanted, massive theater, where stories are performed using enchanted ink by this storyteller named Cyrus Craven.
00;05;30;01 - 00;05;59;21
Unknown
And she's only there because her father promised her some access to some rare books. If she behaves. But she's stuck with this terrible escort. He's, like, wiping his nose, like, has total ick factor. The guys compared him to Mr. Collins from Pride and Prejudice. I thought that was actually a very appropriate comparison. And so as they're watching this version of Rapunzel on stage, Arabella starts noticing something that's feeling kind of off in her body, and she's not sure what it is that's been happening all week, and she can't quite place it.
00;05;59;23 - 00;06;25;22
Unknown
And then meanwhile, escort kind of crosses the line. And so, she uses the chance to slip away from the theater production, to try and get away from him. But instead of being able to skate cleanly, he follows her. So she ducks down a little service corridor. And winds up backstage and sees all the inner workings of this imaginarium, where the magic is a lot less glamorous and a lot less exciting.
00;06;25;25 - 00;06;48;09
Unknown
And while she's there, she meets this really obnoxious guy wearing green suspenders, and he very much does not help her situation. And partially because of him, she's mistaken for a performer and shoved onto the stage while the storyteller is still performing, which is very much not part of her plan. And I think that's about it. So we'll see what the guys think.
00;06;48;12 - 00;07;14;20
Unknown
And then inside of that, gray was going to rip into her first. All right. Cool. Any last words? Can oh good luck. Good luck. All right. Well, we've developed a certain set of skills that make us a nightmare to new guests on our podcast. So we hope you are ready for that. No, this is super exciting. Like, I'm always excited to read something new from these guys.
00;07;14;20 - 00;07;38;12
Unknown
I mean, I'm looking forward to the ongoing kind of serial drama. But something new and from somebody who is new on the pod is is super awesome and just kind of a breath of fresh air. No offense to the rest of us, but, I'll just start off by saying that I really enjoyed your piece, not just for the fact that it is novel, but also for just the the quality of the writing.
00;07;38;14 - 00;08;02;04
Unknown
I was kind of curious. Who's your target reader? Is is it? Yeah. You said. Yeah, it's like kind of upper. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Cool. That's definitely the feeling I was getting. So I'm happy to hear that. Yeah. So right off the bat, I get this sort of, kind of, magical gaslamp feeling a little bit Victorian, mixed with,
00;08;02;07 - 00;08;21;14
Unknown
Gosh, I'm trying to think of a fantasy series that would be appropriate, but, super cool. I love that mash up. I love how you get into it right away. A lot of what you give us, the details about the world, you kind of sprinkle in via context clues rather than just kind of shoveling it down our throats.
00;08;21;17 - 00;08;41;29
Unknown
So, right from, like, paragraph two, I was already leaving little comments like, hi, this is really absorbing and funny. You start off with, with, the gals date just kind of being gross and, like, not picking his nose, but wiping his nose and just. Yeah, I was I was right there with her in the evening grossed out by that.
00;08;42;02 - 00;09;04;07
Unknown
And you guys have allergies or is it just allergies? I would know. I mean, I was mildly offended because I do have some, dramatic, flaring nostrils, just like her date. But, you know, I chose not to be offended by that. As I read on, I chose not to see myself as this kind of new Mr. Collins esque character.
00;09;04;09 - 00;09;28;21
Unknown
Pride and prejudice reference. Was that what you're going for? Because that was definitely what I was getting. Kim. Oh yeah. Definitely. No, I'm glad you picked up on that. That's a great, comparison. It's sweet. And yeah, I get the same level of discomfort, from this guy as I would for Mr. Collins. So, so we were introduced to this, kind of, form of magic known as,
00;09;28;28 - 00;09;50;23
Unknown
Oh, my goodness, it's not ink bending. It's ink ink something or other podge name that you have, I named it, I said, I don't I don't think there was an I didn't mean it. Yeah. Cool. I'll pretend that's why I didn't know what the name was. Very good reader comprehension. Smart. Yeah. The setting is super awesome here.
00;09;50;25 - 00;10;15;23
Unknown
It's it's kind of this, it reminds me of just, like a movie theater from the 40s, almost. And yet incorporating the use of this magic rather than, you know, Thomas Edison style, films. Let's see. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to kind of avoid the, my temptation to jump into the weeds here with, some of this doo doo doo doo doo.
00;10;15;25 - 00;10;34;08
Unknown
There were a few moments that, took me out a little bit. As much as I love those context clues, there were a few moments, like the very first time you introduced, the word flair, which I, you know, come to, I know is basically the equivalent of, like, the word neck or, you know, introducing whatever form of magic they have.
00;10;34;11 - 00;11;01;20
Unknown
First time that was introduced, I was a little confused. I had to keep reading, and I kind of ask myself, like, I was comparing it to Mistborn, like, the first time that kill Calcifer Burns ten and you're like, super confused as a reader, and it's intentional. So it's kind of sitting there asking myself, like, does this work? Can I, you know, plow through that stop sign in that sense and be confused and be okay, you know, until a paragraph or two later when you kind of introduce us to that a little bit more?
00;11;01;23 - 00;11;30;01
Unknown
So I left a few comments, to that effect. Great diction, great voice. I love the word, the use of words like robust that just feels so, period appropriate in this context. Yeah. I, I'm calling it the blond dude is a love interest. I really hope I'm not wrong, but the shock of whatever you don't explicitly say that it's sexy, but I was picturing it being so, like, Superman, little girl.
00;11;30;01 - 00;12;08;28
Unknown
Anyway, you know? Yeah. This is definitely Superman, little girl. Wow. I'll have to add that in Superman. What is that? Writing it down. There's a term for that. What does that bangs? Lock. No. Yeah. Okay. Well. Well, I love that those little touches like that for describing characters were cool. I found it a little bit convenient that, you know, at the close of this chapter, you know, that your protagonist is essentially being rushed on stage by some kind of, like, jingle all the way type happy accident in which, she gets to read some lines from the stage spoilers.
00;12;08;28 - 00;12;30;14
Unknown
But I thought that was cool. And I was like, that's pretty convenient, but she's the protagonist, so maybe I'll give her a pass on that. Yeah. Sorry. I feels like I don't have much more, like, constructive feedback that I can give you what you can work with, to keep molding it, but very well done. Overall. Thank you.
00;12;30;16 - 00;12;53;20
Unknown
All right. And I already forgot who's next on my to in. Tyler's up. All right. Release the hounds. At least the hounds. Release the editor. So I definitely came into this with high expectations because JK hype up before we ever met. JK, I don't think we even mentioned this. JK met Kim at Eagle Mountain Conference. She was part of the workshop group.
00;12;53;22 - 00;13;12;09
Unknown
Yep. And JK was really impressed with her with her writing. And so she got the invite to to join us basically. So and you fulfilled the expectations I got into as I was hooked straight from start, straight from the start, even though it's not necessarily the genre that I usually read. But I really enjoyed the world building.
00;13;12;09 - 00;13;33;23
Unknown
I enjoyed like, like, like gray said about your magic system, how you don't really explain it, but it becomes clear through context. That's really awesome. We're kind of always talking about these guys kind of have it hard, because they also have protagonists who are experts in what they do, and it should know, so they have a hard time being able to explain their worlds and their magic.
00;13;33;23 - 00;13;56;28
Unknown
But but you did it really well. A lot of these guys don't do that, but you do. But through the context, through through this, reading it, you know, we learned what Flair's a little bit more about what flares are. And I like that you're if that feels like a much more unique word. Jk. Sorry. Than than quirk or knack, I feel like those have been used before to kind of show, magical abilities.
00;13;56;28 - 00;14;21;23
Unknown
So that was that was, a fun novel thing. Really great characterization as well. Like this Prichard guy, did not like him from the third paragraph, from the first moment he opened his mouth. So very well done. There. And gosh, I cannot remember the name of your protagonist, said Miss Arabella. What's your first name? She have a first name?
00;14;21;26 - 00;14;46;16
Unknown
She must have a first. Arabella. Arabella is her first name. Oh, is this your first name? Okay. Awesome. Awesome. Really good. You know, again, with the Pride and Prejudice. She seems like very much like Mr. Collins. She seems a lot like Elizabeth Bennet. Bookworm. Distaste for men like Pritchard. I like how you, describe that ink.
00;14;46;16 - 00;15;20;08
Unknown
Lord, at the very start. So you are going for, like, a Victorian vibe, right? Yeah. I've been going back and forth a little bit exactly when I want it to be, but yeah, probably. Probably Victorian, maybe with a little bit of steampunk feel. Right? Right. And again, this might just be my non expertise in the genre or the historical period, but I felt like all the thigh grabbing was really forward and would be frowned on a lot more than it would be, at least in the real world.
00;15;20;10 - 00;15;55;26
Unknown
The real, the real world. It does seem like we're on Earth, right? We have the Rapunzel fairy tale. It's like kind of grounded me in in, but like an alternate history. Earth with magic. Am I right about that? Yeah. Yeah. So I think I want it to be a little bit more other, but yeah. Gotcha. So that was, that was just something that I noticed that that didn't necessarily kick me out, but made me maybe think about what you were trying to do with your with your stuff, with Pritchard, with Pritchard being so forward as he is and being real creep.
00;15;55;28 - 00;16;23;13
Unknown
I wonder if he. This isn't scared of her dad. Because I feel like having a powerful father would usually protect the data from something like this. So I don't know what you're planning with that, but that's something to think about. Especially since it seems like he's put a lot of effort into getting this date, and then he either he's just really stupid and not reading the the signs, or he's playing instead.
00;16;23;16 - 00;16;41;14
Unknown
So, you know, I don't know. Does that make sense? Yeah. No, that makes sense. Yeah. I haven't thought that through. So that is definitely yeah I should take into consideration and that that wouldn't be that would take too much to, to make clear. Just I always talked about like, throwaway lines, but, maybe he'll say something. It'll be become clear what he wants.
00;16;41;14 - 00;17;03;03
Unknown
I mean, that's obviously what he wants, but, like, how he's going about it, basically. Yeah. And then my only other real critique was the same one that that great, brought up at the very end with, with the stage manager just not even realizing she wasn't who he thought, she was. I would want a little bit more explanation about that.
00;17;03;05 - 00;17;24;22
Unknown
I get the stage managers are really busy. I've. I've been in plays before as well. You've done dance and you've been in this whole world as well, I'm assuming. Yeah. Yeah. And I would get that. He might not look at her face and, but would those like the color of her, of her dress and stuff like that, that did feel like there needed to be a little bit more there just to make that seem more natural.
00;17;24;22 - 00;17;50;00
Unknown
But it's really, really, really good. I do agree with gray Blond. It does seem like, potential love interests, although I'm also interested in the storyteller. I'm interested in getting to meet him, probably in your next section. He seems pretty cool. He seems either really cool or really bad. I could see it going that way. Yeah.
00;17;50;06 - 00;17;56;25
Unknown
That's that's all I had for you, Kim. Okay, great. Thank you so much.
00;17;56;28 - 00;18;25;19
Unknown
All right, now it's my turn. I was glad I got to read this again. Like I said, I, like Tyler said I enjoyed it enough the first time that, I felt like it was a good fit for our group. And reading it again, I agree. I agree with my assessment. I like your use of imagery and, you know, the wiping of the nose, smelled of expensive ink and moral compromise.
00;18;25;19 - 00;18;49;25
Unknown
Probably one of my favorite lines, describing the ink. Lord, you use. So one of the things that that sometimes people get heavy handed with, especially the magic system like yours, is they will overemphasize the word like ink. You use it, but you don't. So far you haven't over used it to the point that it's like, okay, yes, we get the point.
00;18;49;27 - 00;19;21;06
Unknown
There's an ink based magic system, so I like it. Let's see here. I. Yeah, Mr. Pritchard still is a terrible person. Don't like him at all. So one of the questions I had for myself as I was reading, talking about setting the scene and setting the, the, period and other world building, since you said you're kind of bouncing around on where you want it to land.
00;19;21;09 - 00;19;46;01
Unknown
When, where, if if it really is Victorian, you can add in the little details of clothing and, appearances that will help take that setting and make it solid just using simple terms of clothing, what they're wearing, what they call it versus what we would call it. And that will help take it and say, okay, this is when it is.
00;19;46;01 - 00;20;18;28
Unknown
This is where it is. And I made it. I made a note because again, as I've been working on iridescent, I've been going back and studying the Victorian era and reading through Jane Austen's works and trying to find ways to make sure that I'm setting up those establishing details in my own piece. So, I think that's going to give you that one last little thing that'll make it easier for us to say, okay, this is this is the period we're looking at.
00;20;19;00 - 00;20;43;27
Unknown
Excuse me. Does it, there's just sections that I just like reading it, like I just read it. So one of the things I always tell the guys is if I just don't make comments is because I was just enjoying reading it enough that nothing really was taking me out. Did it. So let's see here. I think you there's one thing I want.
00;20;43;27 - 00;21;09;06
Unknown
I, I hope you listened to this comment. He he's when you're talking about Mr. Pritchard smiling, a slow smile spreading across his lips, I want a description of what his lips look like to make it more disgusting. What kind of lips are they? Thin? Are they swollen? Chapped? Whatever. So what will just. Yes, yes. And then let's see here.
00;21;09;06 - 00;21;14;18
Unknown
00;21;14;20 - 00;21;39;09
Unknown
And. That I am on a, Let's see. I like, like Tyler said, your character Arabella's. She's got a really good voice. You. We know who she is. Like, you know, personally, I'd prefer to know a man's name before agreeing to marry him. You know, I mean, we know who she is. She's she she has a mind.
00;21;39;09 - 00;22;16;28
Unknown
She thinks she reads. The one thing you're going to be running into, and that's. I didn't make a specific comment, but just overall with genre tropes and cliches is differentiating yourself from everybody else, and making sure that you're hitting the tropes that people want and expect and the cliches that they want and expect, while at the same time subverting some of the overplayed ones into something more interesting than everything else.
00;22;17;01 - 00;22;40;01
Unknown
You have a lot of really good setups, and a lot of really good ways you can go with this. Again, I with the Victorian esque setting, the plight of women and what they had to deal with is a big one. And that's one that should be addressed because it's a real thing. I mean, it was a problem.
00;22;40;03 - 00;23;23;00
Unknown
And so this idea that she's basically bartering a date for access to her dad's library is, is it's a I mean, that's a good point. And her dad's a little bit more forward thinking than some of them letting her actually read them, even if he had to make her go on a date. At the time, the one thing I would say, going back to the forwardness of of her date grabbing her thigh and her being worried is give us a little bit more of a where are they in the theater because she's worried about people seeing it happen.
00;23;23;02 - 00;23;42;01
Unknown
And this is just a flaw on my part. For some reason. I picture them, like on a balcony or like a box seat, because she's next to an ink Lord. And so if where they're at, where they're located, will will make that feel a little bit more. Okay. Why does he feel like he can do this?
00;23;42;01 - 00;24;06;25
Unknown
Are they in a box? Are they in a back part of the theater? You know, you say she's not he's not on the front row, which is great. Because he never would have done that in the front row. I don't think. But that'll help. That'll help make his his boldness a little bit more real, I would say, couple of transition things.
00;24;06;27 - 00;24;38;06
Unknown
You then let's see here. Nothing else that I can. Oh, I love the questions, by the way. And the little journal, the 33 questions she reads. They fit so much for the society. And what would be expected for a the proper kind of questions for lady to ask. So that was that fun. Funny, appropriate addition. And then that's pretty much it.
00;24;38;08 - 00;25;02;25
Unknown
I like how it ends. Personally, I like the awkward moment of the wrong person being pushed on stage because the stage manager is so focused on something else. And if you emphasize just that little bit more that he is literally not doing much more than glancing to see if there is a female type person in the room that he can grab and say is Clara, then then you get away with this.
00;25;02;25 - 00;25;25;23
Unknown
I'm pushing you on the stage because you are so far down my list of concerns that you are clearly a woman, and that's all I care about. And I think that that will lead more into that idea, that scene of it. She's on stage now, even though she's clearly not the right person, because the stage manager just had too much stuff going on.
00;25;25;26 - 00;25;59;07
Unknown
Otherwise, like I said, I can't wait to read more of it. So nice work. Thank you so much. Now, do you have any questions for us? I actually do have one question. You guys write fantasy. I know Tyler's a little bit more contemporary, but, when you're writing in fantasy and you've got kind of a general genre that you're trying to mimic, how do you match kind of the voice and the tone and the dialog without making it exactly that?
00;25;59;09 - 00;26;20;28
Unknown
Because I don't necessarily want it to be exactly Victorian, but I want it to have a little bit of the flair. So I know you mentioned like the costuming and kind of what they're wearing, some of those little things, add to it. But I'm just curious if you have any feedback on this, piece particular or just in general, because I don't, I don't really think you can force it.
00;26;21;00 - 00;26;41;23
Unknown
I think this is probably the genre that you're interested in, right? This is probably most most of what you read. I think just pulling from that, it's just going to kind of come naturally. I don't feel like it's something you necessarily have to. Maybe this is just me, but I don't think it's necessarily something you have to think about that much, just kind of let it flow.
00;26;42;00 - 00;27;06;05
Unknown
Maybe that's too simple of an answer. What do you guys think? Just to be clear, you're saying I can go ahead? Just, for me, it's it's always I always go back, and I, I don't compare myself to people in the genre that I'm writing, but I look at the genre, I read the genre, and I feel when I read my piece, does this feel like it fits?
00;27;06;07 - 00;27;25;15
Unknown
And again, I'm always careful. Like you said, you don't want to feel like you're mimicking. You don't want to feel like copying. And that's a that's a legitimate concern. So to just if you sat down and blind read it and this is hard because you're the one that wrote it, but give yourself a little bit of space.
00;27;25;18 - 00;27;44;25
Unknown
One of my editing techniques is once I finish a piece, I don't look at it again for a month. Like, I put it away. It goes away for a month. Might come back and read it. Does it feel like what I want it to feel like? Does it fit in the genre that I'm expecting it to fit in?
00;27;44;27 - 00;28;15;11
Unknown
And that's that's how I do it. And again, I write in three different genres right now, so technically four different genres. So, I bounce around a lot between what I'm writing, but yeah, I would say take the approach of, of, I don't know if you have other projects or other ideas, take some time, work on a different project for a little bit, and then come back to this one and say, does it feel right?
00;28;15;15 - 00;28;41;27
Unknown
And if it does, you're on the right track. Yeah, yeah, I'll, I you for example, you had your blond haired potential love interest use the word nope. To me that feels out. And I made a note of it. So there's a comment in my, so in that, you know, that's part of why we have the writers group, because we catch those little things.
00;28;41;29 - 00;28;58;18
Unknown
But then if you're reading it and you read it out loud and you read a line and you're like, that'll it'll catch you out, you will catch lines, especially if you're reading them out loud where you feel you'll just know, you'll feel it, and you'll just know it. Especially because you are a very good writer. I'm not going to sugarcoat it.
00;28;58;18 - 00;29;16;29
Unknown
I'm not going to. I'm not just trying to, you know, flatter you are. You are a very good writer. So you are on the right track. I wouldn't worry too much about it. But if you if you feel like you're struggling, take some time away from the piece you feel like you're struggling with and then come back to it later.
00;29;17;01 - 00;29;44;25
Unknown
That's. Yeah. Kim. So as to your question, as I understand it, about how you can sort of borrow elements from a lot of your favorite, in this case fantasy settings or writers without, you know, feeling like you're, you know, sort of ripping it off or mimicking it too closely. I don't know, I, I think that in this case, there's there's a lot to be said for, for voice and diction and prose and how that defines the genre and not in thematic appeal.
00;29;44;25 - 00;30;04;07
Unknown
Rather than just like the window dressing of setting. You know, Star Wars is a Western in space, right? And so you're like, people struggle with that all the time, that that's not a Western. Like, it doesn't have any horses. It doesn't have all these other elements like, okay, we'll just have outlaws and bounty hunters and gunslingers and a lone hero that has to make his way, like, okay.
00;30;04;07 - 00;30;35;04
Unknown
Yeah. And incorporates all of those things. And the fact that your, you know, you're clearly shooting for something approaching Austin or Bronte's voice, that already kind of nudges us in the right direction as to what you're trying to achieve. Thematically, you're talking about it seems like themes of of women's rights or, you know, not to get too, you know, puritanical about it, but it seems like, you know, your character just wants their, their due respect, their ability to, to walk this world and seek knowledge.
00;30;35;04 - 00;31;01;14
Unknown
And, you know, spread her wings a little bit. And that's thematically, you know, very similar to, as Tyler pointed out, like an Elizabeth Bennet character, who lives in a man's world and yet kind of outsmarts people, using her wits and the few things that are available to her in that society. And so whether or not this is, you know, a steampunk mashup of Victorian or Edwardian or all of the above elements, I don't know.
00;31;01;14 - 00;31;22;03
Unknown
I wouldn't worry too much about it. I would I might consider studying more, the prose in of what you're going for. Yeah, I, I thought this is such a silly thing, but writing my fantasy story, how to do inner monologue and inner dialog since I have a character who is two characters and argues with himself in his head.
00;31;22;05 - 00;31;41;24
Unknown
And so I kind of studied this. Should I put that in italics? Should I put that in, you know, parentheses or just a new paragraph block or a dialog, but just, you know, make it clear every time. And then I saw what Sanderson was doing in a similar vein, with just italicized it and making it clear through context as to, the fact that it's inner dialog.
00;31;41;27 - 00;32;05;00
Unknown
And that's kind of an element of his kind of snappy, smooth prose and way of writing, fantasy that is, you know, it was different at the time, and now it's just become kind of standard size, standardized. Wow. Standardized as we all looked. That was great. That's great. Looks emulating Scott there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We're clipping that.
00;32;05;02 - 00;32;28;02
Unknown
That's definitely a long answer for a short question. So my apologies. Hopefully that helped those. Perfect. Thank you. Yeah I, I mostly be worried about being too close rather than not close enough typically. But yeah I think you're doing great. Yeah. Okay. Any other questions? Anything about the the the section you wanted to ask us about?
00;32;28;04 - 00;32;54;18
Unknown
No. That was it's okay if you don't have any questions. Yep yep yep. We're good. Okay. We we go into Q future gray and future gray. Hello, you bunch of dialectic daffodils. It's gray from the future. Here. To give you some context on the chapter for this week, but not much, if I'm being honest. You may recall that the last we saw of our brave hero and protagonist and in things weren't looking so good.
00;32;54;20 - 00;33;21;00
Unknown
The young memory mage had finally caught up to his charge. The chap on Soldier Gil, just in time to get tangled up in a moonlit gunfight along the main road leading through the Arias Forest, one of their assailants tosses a compressed meteor grenade into the fray, sending then flying backward into the bushes. As he lies, dazed and confused, he is barely able to fend off his attacker, and discovers that the impact of the grenade on his skull has rendered his memory magic essentially powerless.
00;33;21;02 - 00;33;49;27
Unknown
He's also cut off from accessing his alternate, more skilled persona stills. The fight resolves when Gil, in an unprecedented showing of skill, manages to shoot a second grenade out of the air. The party then returns to their campsite victorious, where further hijinks do ensue. Now let's see what the guys Excuse me. What the people have to say about my submission for this week, and I'm going to go first.
00;33;50;00 - 00;34;14;09
Unknown
Off of just off of. What the heck are you doing? Oh, I suspected as much. I'm just kidding. Lots of things I really liked about this section. I love because we've read some of your least JK, and I've read some of your other stories. I'm seeing some connections, and I'm really liking that. You're you're you're giving me a you're giving me a blank look, am I right?
00;34;14;09 - 00;34;41;27
Unknown
Are you not connecting to your other stories? I'm just trying to think of what element you're talking about in particular. Okay, so we've got we've got the Northern Raiders, which we read about in the short that you gave us for the live session. That was a bonus episode in the on the podcast. And then I thought this, shoot, the old one has gone missing.
00;34;42;03 - 00;35;00;20
Unknown
Is that is that who I think it is? What do you think it is that the the first thing we ever read of yours? The main character wasn't even on the podcast, so I apologize to listen. And they're going to be super confusing. Okay. My apologies. You might be to go, oh, I think I know what short you're talking about.
00;35;00;22 - 00;35;20;10
Unknown
That's one of the old ones. It's like a category. It's like the old gods sort of. Or these kind of game esque creatures. It's not the. It's not the ghost dude. No, it's it's related to the other dude that the ghost dude was talking to. Okay, so there's a kid. Actually, there I was, I was past, right?
00;35;20;13 - 00;35;45;00
Unknown
But I'm really I'm really like, you have this world and you're writing all these stories in it, and they're they're not usually connected, but sometimes we'll get a little hint, at a connection. I really, really like that. Great action. Bunch of grenades going off. Super fun. You've you've properly established that Gil is a boss, which is cool.
00;35;45;03 - 00;36;06;09
Unknown
You haven't really had so much of a chance to do that yet, other than just through rumors that that needed still have have heard, so that's really fun. I like that a lot. I want to know what happened to stills, why he hasn't did he get like, knocked out of in the end or something though, I hope I hope not.
00;36;06;09 - 00;36;39;20
Unknown
I mean, if he is, that's fine. But I don't want stills to be gone. I hated stills originally, though I did hate to. He's going on. They have them all grown on me. I did feel like my my major criticism for this section is I think you have too much going on, and, yeah, too much going on, essentially, I feel like especially if I were to change one thing, I would take the parasite section out and move it to later.
00;36;39;25 - 00;37;06;13
Unknown
I assume that's going to be important, but it kind of distracted. What's that? Sorry. There will be pay off later, but yeah, yeah, that's what I figured. But it felt for this situation. It felt like you like it. It blended with things. Well, but I felt like it could be taken out and that would leave more space for the what feels like to me, like the more important stuff, the stuff that's setting up things for what's probably about to happen.
00;37;06;13 - 00;37;32;10
Unknown
This blood curse feels very important. And I know we've talked about, making a certain monster scarier, so I wondered if that was connected to that. It was really funny that, the merchant has an actual parasite and thought that Gil was a prophet for for mentioning it. I thought that was really funny. Yeah, I, I would just take the I'd move it further out or whatever.
00;37;32;13 - 00;37;59;01
Unknown
Whatever your, your plan is for that. I wish, speaking of, to go against what I said about too many things going on. It does feel strange that neon doesn't ask Gil why he did, why he put the barrier up. I felt like that's been the big mystery the last two sections that we've read of yours, and then didn't jump on the chance to ask why.
00;37;59;05 - 00;38;20;14
Unknown
Maybe I'm just misremembering something, but it felt like that was something that noone was really wondering. At least I was really wondering why Gil would put up the the barrier on the camp. Yeah, that's definitely something I could make more clear. I sort of hinted the fact that this was like standard procedure for him when he camps to erect that barrier, especially after seeing the Angela the first time.
00;38;20;16 - 00;38;40;17
Unknown
But no, I know that's something that, you know, like you said, a little throwaway line could easily dispel. Yeah. And it could just be me. I mean, it's been a couple it's been several weeks, honestly, since we read together. So it could just be that, Yeah. As long as that's clear, those are those are basically my thoughts.
00;38;40;17 - 00;38;58;28
Unknown
Good. Good stuff. Blood curse. I'm very excited about what's going to happen next. Sweet. So thank you all for, Jesse. All right. So.
00;38;59;01 - 00;39;31;00
Unknown
I will agree with Tyler. Overall, the section is really good. I like, I like that you have him feeling his injuries. I have actually not ever been blown up. Never even been that close to an explosion. But I have a long and storied past. He's never experienced, you know, thankfully. Thankfully. Yeah. But, that feeling of,
00;39;31;02 - 00;39;57;22
Unknown
Because that he gets jarred out of the scene, he gets jarred basically out of his adrenaline by the explosion, and then he's feeling everything. That feeling I have felt. I've woken up the next day and felt like I've been hit by a truck. So I like that you brought that in. And I like that you you give a realistic, reaction to being close to an explosion.
00;39;57;25 - 00;40;25;11
Unknown
Most of the time in, visual media especially, people are next to massive explosions and seem to just kind of walk it off. They would not just walk it off. Explosions are devastating to the human body. So you you genuinely, I think, get it get that feel of. Yeah. He he's he's not up to snuff and everything's getting out of whack.
00;40;25;13 - 00;40;46;09
Unknown
So I will say when the guy gets his spear hooked on the hammer of his flintlock, I'm trying to remember if it was loaded or not. And, not it was not. Okay. So cool. I played around with that, but I thought you were going with that. But yeah. And so with that, with that little there's a paragraph.
00;40;46;09 - 00;41;12;08
Unknown
I have it, I have it noted. I would I would make sure that it's clear one way or the other that it's not that way. The reader is just not a why doesn't he pull the trigger? His spear pulled the hammer back, not waiting for Chekhov's gun to literally go off, right? Yeah. A quick little, consistent tidbit consistency thing.
00;41;12;10 - 00;41;36;28
Unknown
I can't remember if in previous sections you capitalized chain when, he's using the chain. And so it's not capitalized in this one. And I thought it was in previous ones. And so I personally, now that I've read it in a section where it's not capitalized, I would say capitalize that as a proper noun, a proper thing.
00;41;37;00 - 00;42;01;22
Unknown
That way, we can differentiate I've talked about this before in my My Hero Unit series, how non superpowered people are called normals. So when I'm writing, I can't use the word normal like I usually would. I have to switch it out and use, you know, nor I have to I can't use normally. For example, I have to use regularly usually.
00;42;01;24 - 00;42;41;12
Unknown
So because I use the word normal for something else. And so you're using a very common word, especially at this technology level of chain, you need to differentiate it from chains of, you know, metal chains. That'll help your reader keep track of what's going on. And, the description of the hammer and chisel in the skull. I like that, having not literally felt that, but figuratively felt that good, good.
00;42;41;14 - 00;43;10;09
Unknown
The cognitive device that HRA implanted in. I'm curious about that. The fact that the the the thing that really makes Gil come across as. Yeah, you're dangerous is he shoots a grenade out of the air. That is a really hard shot to pull off. That is a perfect way to do it. So good job he had or something.
00;43;10;09 - 00;43;32;29
Unknown
He had multiple shots. Yeah. So that's what I want to. That should be a foreign technology ninja. Should be like what the heck. You had access to more than one shot. That's pretty cool. That's a really good way to do that. Yeah. So I'm assuming you're going to have him talk about address the the issue of you took two shots in a row later.
00;43;33;02 - 00;44;06;28
Unknown
But yeah, he is he is clearly he is clearly confused. So you did good there. To done. Let's see. Doc, doc, a couple of places where I would just put in action beats, that same advice that I gave Tyler. Give Tyler a lot of you have dialog. There needs to be a little bit more happening around the dialog, simply so we can feel a little bit more about what's going on.
00;44;07;01 - 00;44;29;06
Unknown
And then, I love how a tot just grabs the guy, pats him down, and then drags him through the, through the dirt back to their camp. It felt very on brand for him. Let's see a couple of things there.
00;44;29;09 - 00;44;48;10
Unknown
Yeah, and I like your backing up. That atrium said that Gil is is very dangerous. Is one of the most dangerous chaplains. I think atrium says, I love your gallows humor and the fact that a tot didn't get it, referencing the I love the scar, the slash across his neck and making a joke about it, and then gets it.
00;44;48;10 - 00;44;56;09
Unknown
And Todd's like, what? Gallows humor doesn't always translate. Then.
00;44;56;12 - 00;45;30;03
Unknown
So I was wondering why the the, merchant section kind of felt off to me like the section, the way it's written where he's talking about the parasite works. It's it's a good section, like Tyler says. But now that Tyler mentioned it, I'm like, yeah, no, this is one too many things happening, right now. And I think, and yeah, the guy shows up finally and Gil can remember, but I think the, the more, pressing issue is dealing with the Jackal as you refer to him and what's going on there.
00;45;30;03 - 00;45;54;02
Unknown
So moving even just in the morning of the scene, moving the merchant and the parasite, like, bring him back at the camp. Sure. But have Gil address the parasite later, I think would make this section flow a lot better. But I will say your description of the parasite, you continue your trend of making really gross things.
00;45;54;02 - 00;46;20;05
Unknown
Good. Yep. Okay. Here it is. Just so gross. Yeah, I like the I like the reference back to the, the tribe. I not even going to attempt to pronounce their name from your previous short piece that you gave us, the spirit with this referencing the spear master. So things that we're familiar with, because that was an interesting concept.
00;46;20;05 - 00;46;44;14
Unknown
I'm glad they're at the very least making a, cameo here. There we go. I can talk, and you, you give us this idea that bad things are happening in the forest. And using the merchant as the delivery method, I think was a good idea to to to to. So I will say, excuse me. I've got to stop doing that.
00;46;44;16 - 00;47;12;04
Unknown
I will say that you need to make more expressly clear that the the northern writer, the jackal, it has gone unconscious, has passed out prior to him waking up laughing at them and pronouncing a blood curse. If you make it expressly clear, it makes that scene creepier, like me, and goes to check on him while Gil is checking on the merchant's parasite.
00;47;12;06 - 00;47;35;00
Unknown
But it's a very quick scene where Gil kind of goes over our knee and goes over checks and then comes back. If you, just add in and saw, you know, he sees that he's unconscious and then he goes back. Then when he wakes up and starts talking, it's going to it's going to add to creep layer that creepy vibe of all of a sudden this dude's pronouncing a curse after he's been unconscious from blood loss.
00;47;35;00 - 00;48;04;23
Unknown
Probably. That's pretty much it. Overall, I liked it. There was a little bit of a choppiness to it, but I think if you if you take that section and move it about the parasite, I think it'll smooth it all out. So good work. Good job. Can't wait to continue reading. Awesome. Okay, I should have done this for for the first time that we gave Kim a critique, but bear with me for two seconds.
00;48;04;23 - 00;48;12;11
Unknown
For the first time that Kim gives a critique.
00;48;12;13 - 00;48;38;01
Unknown
Now. So yeah. I didn't mean to piss. I think it. I know I like to do something twice. That's fun. Well, I was it was kind of fun timing the book, because I got to read this really great action scene. And usually you have to wait for all these chapters. And I just got to come right into it, and all of a sudden there's a grenade going off, and, all these things are happening.
00;48;38;01 - 00;48;55;09
Unknown
And I felt like I was actually really following along and I was really interested in it. And I felt like the pacing of the action scene was really well done. Sometimes it can go on a little bit long, but I felt like this one, it felt like the tension was just perfect. It just kind of ended at the right moment.
00;48;55;11 - 00;49;19;19
Unknown
For like the perfect amount. I was a little bit confused. Maybe not confused. What's the word I'm looking for when the first grenade or not? It seems like there was a lot of light. It seems exactly like what Jake said. There was definitely a reaction to that. And then when is it, Gil that shoots it out of the air?
00;49;19;21 - 00;49;37;07
Unknown
I expected maybe a little bit more there. Like, he's all of a sudden seeing that there is another shot going through someone's thigh. And I thought, if there is a big explosion, I don't know that I'd be noticing the gun shooting someone through the side. Like, right away. I feel like there might be a little bit more of a, reaction.
00;49;37;07 - 00;49;57;16
Unknown
Like when the first one or not. Although I don't know if you shoot a grenade out of the air, does it still kind of explode? That's a question for me. What is there to hear it? Maybe it's actually. No. Oh, well, no, it probably won't go off. Depends on how the grenade is constructed. Probably. Well, these are different grenades.
00;49;57;16 - 00;50;20;02
Unknown
So these are these are compressed. These are compressed. Yeah. Not guns. It's like yeah that's what I'm that's it. It's because a traditional grenade it has a fuze. And when the fuze goes down and hits its end it ignites the gunpowder and goes off. If you hit the grenade and disrupt that, it won't explode because it can't because it doesn't have the chemical reaction.
00;50;20;05 - 00;50;43;24
Unknown
So if the myth are grenades are different than it might, I thought they still would explode. Yeah, I think your point is well taken, Kim. I think, the way that I've envisioned it, there should have been more of a reaction to such a dramatic, event like that. So. Yeah. Thank you. And maybe in the end, just has time to, like, take a little bit of cover this time because he sees it coming.
00;50;43;24 - 00;51;08;06
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, he moreso than he did last time. This person wasn't sure how far away he was from it. Like, are we talking like he's right there next to the road or is it like a mile away? I mean it to mile away because he'd be able to see things, but I just wasn't sure where everybody was placed at this point in saying so, if you maybe include that, if they're a little bit farther away than maybe it wouldn't be as big of a reaction.
00;51;08;08 - 00;51;33;02
Unknown
And you'd be able to see that. But yeah, that was one thing I thought, okay. I also really liked that interaction with is it it's hot. It's hot. But with the, the love marks. Yeah. I love that reaction. I feel like all of a sudden I knew exactly who he was and what was going on, and it was just absolutely hilarious.
00;51;33;04 - 00;51;53;00
Unknown
I was a little confused on the. It might just be something from a missing something I missing from an earlier chapter, but I wasn't sure when be talking about you can understand the common tongue. That's a little bit foggy to in the comments on that. So that might be something from a previous chapter, but I just thought I'd mention it.
00;51;53;02 - 00;52;08;07
Unknown
And then I also agree with the merchant came out of nowhere. I was sort of like, oh, was he at camp the whole time or was he? So I feel like moving him to a different scene might be helpful to, ground us where he is and be able to just really give that scene a little bit more weight.
00;52;08;09 - 00;52;29;19
Unknown
That said, I really liked the Merchant because he just felt like kind of oily and obsequious. And that was sort of. Capito was just like, it's truly over the edge. I was just like, oh, this guy's giving me the keep. You do these like, but in the best way possible. So, I really like that. So I agree, I think subverting that scene is going to make it feel a little bit, give it a little bit more weight.
00;52;29;21 - 00;52;46;24
Unknown
And I also really liked the Blood Curse at the end. I feel like there are all these kind of religious overtones throughout the chapter, and it made me really want to read more about your stuff and about your worlds, religion. So yeah. Well done. I really liked the chapter. I thought it ended in a great place and I really wanted to read more.
00;52;46;26 - 00;53;12;03
Unknown
So yeah, that's sweet. Much appreciated. Much appreciated, all of you. I feel like these guys have definitely clued on to some of my Achilles heels. Like, that's just the nature of week to week, you know, working with each other. And gosh, I've got so many I've realized. But one of which is consistency, which a lot of you guys pointed out, like, why did the first grenade have such a huge reaction and not the second?
00;53;12;04 - 00;53;29;26
Unknown
Well, if there are other variables at play, why not spell them out right? Or why is the chain capitalized in one chapter, not another? So you're right. JK it should be capitalized. And then also, I noticed you guys didn't even maybe you commented on it, but our well, Agatha is spelled like two different ways in this chapter.
00;53;30;01 - 00;53;54;07
Unknown
Yeah, the name of that. Anyways. Tribe. Yes. I guess almost nobody cares. But yeah, I had both times I gloss I, I will admit I glossed the name because it's like I can't pronounce that search a trace in Microsoft Word is your best friend. Search and destroy. Yes it is. And destroy. Yeah. Also another. I broke so many cardinal rules of fight scenes.
00;53;54;07 - 00;54;09;06
Unknown
Like not having clear. Okay, if somebody gets blown off to the side, they're not. They're going to be dis oriented. They won't know where everybody else is in the fight. Sure, I try to play into that, but oh my gosh, like it. It's frustrating for me watching a fight scene in a movie when you're like, what? Where is has been?
00;54;09;11 - 00;54;34;08
Unknown
Where's this dude been for the last five minutes? Like this fight? You know, part of the fight was, you know, going on. So, I don't know if you call it the choreography or just making sure everyone's on their marks and I, as a writer, know where they are and spell it out for the reader instead of just assuming in my head space that, you know, where everybody is and how far away from, you know, the impacts I think that's that's golden advice that'll definitely take the heart implement.
00;54;34;11 - 00;55;03;09
Unknown
I don't think I had any questions in particular. Okay. Yeah, I really appreciate it. Awesome. Well, then, okay. Q future me. Hello, future Tyler here with my puppies. Context for this week. I'm actually going back in time a little bit because I wanted to rewrite a scene that wasn't quite working. It's the scene I have talked about on the podcast before.
00;55;03;09 - 00;55;26;19
Unknown
It's the scene where Bradley is re, Sheriff Bradley, the bad guy, is recruiting Lauren, the protagonist. Basically to his side. He needs his help to open up the gate to fairy. What was not working the last time was it wasn't really making sense why Warner went over to his side. And this time I just tried to make it better.
00;55;26;25 - 00;55;53;22
Unknown
I tried to give him some actual motivations. So basically, Bradley picks up morning after school that picks up, invites to go talk to him. After school, takes him to the morgue, where it turns out the hound that Warren killed is is that they found the body. Basically, so Warren's feeling guilty about that. Bradley's kind of lay, all these reasons why I won't help him.
00;55;53;24 - 00;56;24;23
Unknown
He's actually doing something. There's, really no good way to save these hounds, but Bradley has a way to save them. And that's kind of how bad it gets him on this side. So, it's basically the context for it. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. Love you. Bye. Then JC all right, so I remember this chapter from the first time.
00;56;24;23 - 00;56;43;23
Unknown
So this is a for just in case I don't remember. Did you spell it out explicit. It's a rewrite of a chapter for Kim's. I was I was gonna oh I don't know. I think I was looking for Kim. I was gonna leave it to future me to explain it, but. But I liked this approach. You kept a lot of the things I liked from the first one.
00;56;43;23 - 00;57;08;24
Unknown
I like how Bradley approaches Warren. I like how Warren acts like all of the things that made that chapter good the first time. We're still there. You made it better for a couple of reasons. But we'll get to those first. You actually, I noted this. You have, you say unless the writer has some magical healing magic.
00;57;08;27 - 00;57;40;05
Unknown
Feels a little. Yeah, that's kind of repetitive. And I, I didn't know if it was intentional or not, but to me, it it it was like that. That feels weird. That right now. Yeah. Thanks, Casey. No problem. And again, the the exchange this, like, if we go with, a lot of the other way that I've read, this exchange would go completely different.
00;57;40;12 - 00;58;08;22
Unknown
Warren would be evasive. Bradley would be, you know, threatening arrest him and all that. It feels like a much more realistic, exchange between, especially with Warren and his background, and the fact that his dad was a cop. A it feels a lot more realistic and a lot more organic. I would say that you, excuse me.
00;58;08;25 - 00;58;40;07
Unknown
I would, There's this the paragraph where he is, he is getting ready to agree to go with Bradley to look at the body. And, I would say right at the end of that paragraph, refer back to his guilt because he mentioned that he feels guilt about fighting the hounds. The lake. You reference back to that feeling of guilt, and it gives him just that one more reason to go with Bradley.
00;58;40;10 - 00;59;13;14
Unknown
Because, yeah, Warren likes to fight. Warren likes beating people up. But he is. He views himself as a good person. And so that guilt would be one of the driving forces to get him to go to and and see this, and see, your description of the morgue. I got a chance to go to a cadaver lab when I was in massage therapy school, and, it's awful.
00;59;13;16 - 00;59;44;27
Unknown
It is terrible. The smell is just so, smell. Jake, I had to use, so we had, orange essential oils. I had to apply that 4 or 5 times because I wanted to throw up. It smelled so bad. And this was a sterile chiropractic school's cadaver lab. This isn't a morgue. It's bad. Those chemicals are bad.
00;59;44;29 - 01;00;08;14
Unknown
And then you get the fact that this is a body that's been in water, decaying out in nature. It would be horrendous how bad it would smell. And the fact that when Bradley yanks the sheet back, Warren very nearly throws up, like, I don't think it would be out of character for him to actually throw up. I just don't mean it would be terrible.
01;00;08;17 - 01;00;37;20
Unknown
And I would say on that one, even though Bradley has been, he's been around it, I would say even have him, like, flinch a little bit at the smell just because it's that it's going to be that bad. Let's see here. Yeah. I like the empathy that you give Bradley. One of the things you're doing good with him as you.
01;00;37;22 - 01;01;11;16
Unknown
We don't like him, but he's still human. Like he's not. He's not world like, unworldly and so or otherworldly. There we go. We talking about how he's had to take a life and how you give him that, that level of empathy to say. Because I've met people who have, through the line of duty, had to take a life, and they go one of two ways, almost invariably, they either become callous and it becomes just routine, and they don't care, or they have a level of empathy for anybody else that's had to do it and feels remorse for it.
01;01;11;16 - 01;01;34;01
Unknown
And so that little paragraph where he talks about it, I felt fit him really well because as much as he's a jerk, he cares. And he just has a different approach to things. And he comes across, yeah, he's got his he's got his problems. But that scene, I think, really humanized him. It didn't make me like him.
01;01;34;04 - 01;02;09;08
Unknown
So you don't need to worry about that. I don't like him, but he is humanized. Let's see. I like how he uses information instead of, badgering this time around. He's like, here, this is the information. This is what happened. He tells Warren. He takes he takes the non Gandalf approach. He gives them information. Again, a couple more couple of scenes, like I always say, where he just a little bit more reaction during the conversation, a little bit more movement.
01;02;09;11 - 01;02;36;17
Unknown
Body position, facial structure, facial expressions will tell us a lot more about how people are feeling. The revelation that he and Stan's used to be best friends was, that was like, okay, that that puts a new light on this whole thing. So I thought that was a good addition. I like that, and it puts a new twist on the story.
01;02;36;20 - 01;02;40;28
Unknown
Let's see.
01;02;41;00 - 01;03;15;03
Unknown
Excuse me. I think that's pretty much I don't think I have any other things that any ups or downs other than. Yeah, I think this fits way better into the story than the previous version of this chapter. So yeah, good work. Awesome. Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Or, Okay, it's my turn. Yep. All right. Great. You know, coming into chapter 16.
01;03;15;05 - 01;03;39;18
Unknown
I don't get it twice. Come on. You not really grounded tonight, right? That's right. So even without the first 15 chapters, I just really got a strong sense of who who Warren was. And I feel like I knew what kind of story this was going to be. And I really appreciated there were all these little subtle internal dialog, internal thoughts, internal reasoning.
01;03;39;21 - 01;04;10;19
Unknown
It just made his decisions really trackable, which I really liked. And I felt like I already kind of knew what was happening. One thing I will say with the internal dialog when he faces up to Bradley, what he did, I expected just a little bit more hesitation there, or just internal debate or just, wondering, like, did he feel tempted to lie at all or did he feel pressured to tell them, like you mentioned later, that you felt like it was the right thing to do, but I wasn't really sure why he thought that.
01;04;10;21 - 01;04;27;03
Unknown
It was like a moment that could have had a little more friction to it. And then along the same lines, there's a part where I know we don't do spoilers, but there's a part where Bradley reveals something that I thought was a pretty big deal to him. And I expected you because you can talk about it.
01;04;27;03 - 01;04;45;18
Unknown
I'm not. Can I talk about it? But he's okay. I wasn't sure this was a big deal. If it's not a big deal, I don't know. But where he admits he's part fe, and I thought, oh, that seems like a really big deal. Like, did it surprise him? Did it reframe anything that he'd been dealing with?
01;04;45;21 - 01;05;08;02
Unknown
Did it make him question anything you understood? Or was it just sort of like, oh, okay, that's I just I wanted a little bit more, and to watch that realization hit in real time. And then I, when Bradley tells him that he has to sit in the back, my husband is a police officer for several years, and I'm like the front a lot of times the always starts.
01;05;08;02 - 01;05;33;07
Unknown
And I know that he wouldn't usually make people that. He was just questioning sit in the back. So I was curious if that was more of a power play by Bradley. I got the sense maybe it was, but the way he was like, oh, only police officers can sit in the front. I'm curious if anyone else would be like, oh, well, they can if he's just saying that because he wants to get him in the back and kind of trapping or like, I just wasn't sure what, he was thinking there.
01;05;33;10 - 01;06;01;15
Unknown
I have oh, this is this I know this is my experience because I've never sat in the front of a police group. I have sat in the back. We're not going to ask about this. Like, oh, go ahead, statement right there. No, my sordid past. We're not talking about Jackie's story. Yes. I do feel like I didn't explain I was at the crash and so.
01;06;01;18 - 01;06;21;06
Unknown
And it was like went through. So he had me sit back. So it was warm. Dodger. It wasn't anything. Super excited, I got tired. I'm sorry guys, Well, sometimes my husband would have people sit in the back if they were, like, kind of dirty. Oh, the kids just like I clean up my car, so I. No, no, no, you start using that.
01;06;21;06 - 01;06;32;18
Unknown
That's great. Just like that. Yeah. That was just practicing, like in the car, out.
01;06;32;20 - 01;07;00;09
Unknown
Oh, sorry. We really derailed you. That was great. Great point. Yeah. Appreciate the insight. Good. Okay, so the story. Let's see. When they were in the morgue, I, also was a little bit confused on some of the scene laughing because you talk about who go to an office, and I feel like I. I don't know why I picture this because I don't think it says it in the text, but I picture them going somewhere.
01;07;00;09 - 01;07;23;25
Unknown
Somewhere like somewhere else. And then he says, oh, I looked at the body and I was like, wait, where's the body? Is it like through a window? Is it through a door? Is you like grainy? I just was curious what was happening. But to be able to look at the, and along those same lines, if the smell was that bad, I was curious if he would be excited to drink a soda after that, or if you just kind of get used to it.
01;07;23;28 - 01;07;44;11
Unknown
I don't know, it's like, would you feel like you'd want to be drinking soda in the morgue? Some people do get that way. Yeah. From the from what I've read, they get to the point where they just like. It still affects them initially, but they become nose blind a lot faster. And so they get they just they're just accustomed to it.
01;07;44;11 - 01;07;53;19
Unknown
And with Bradley, it makes sense, being a sheriff, that he would eventually he would go nose blind faster than Warren would.
01;07;53;21 - 01;08;11;02
Unknown
Oh yeah. Because I feel like my husband has to deal with dead bodies all the time. And he's like, they'd be talking about what to do for lunch. Like, it's just like, this is so gross. But here we are talking about our yeah, nuggets or whatever, but we are. But yeah. But didn't didn't Warren drink soda and cereal?
01;08;11;02 - 01;08;28;08
Unknown
I was curious about that at the very end. Yeah. He does. Yeah. The very end. Yeah. But that was a great line. Like I thought that was perfect way of like, having the subtext in the action beat. So kudos on the dialog and the action beats. So I feel like they just really, really did some heavy lifting here.
01;08;28;11 - 01;08;47;15
Unknown
They talked about like, sorry. Go ahead. Yeah. Go ahead, go ahead. Are you talking about like how it when Warren finally drinks it, it's like after he's accepted Bradley's proposal. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, pops the tab. And I felt like the soda was kind of like a little theme throughout. Like, he's like, oh, I've got this soda can, and I'm going to throw it across the room and I'm not going to pick it up.
01;08;47;15 - 01;09;04;12
Unknown
And I felt like that was a really, telling action beat for Bradley. And without knowing him, I already knew. I'm like, oh, I kind of don't like this guy. And so when he pops the soda tab, I'm like, oh, he's kind of following down that same, I'm gonna drink the soda and go through it by the trash and not take it up.
01;09;04;12 - 01;09;30;02
Unknown
So, yeah, I'll stand there. And I'm trying to think if there's anything else. Yeah, I felt like I was watching a movie the whole time, and I just really wanted to read every interaction for the characters. I loved it so awesome. Thank you very much. Okay, so, you're now submitting this, this piece for us, a second time.
01;09;30;04 - 01;09;48;19
Unknown
And I must admit, when I open the file to to see which chapter it was that I was going to be reading a second time, I was mildly surprised to see that it was this one. I mean, it's not that you have a lot of weak content or chapters in your book thus far. But this one, I mean, I enjoyed this scene for what it was the first time around.
01;09;48;22 - 01;10;07;19
Unknown
And then I was kind of, interested to see, you know, what changes you'd make in this section. And I think that, most of the changes that you made were in regard to setting up things later, like Warren's sort of internal sense of guilt. And this was a great place to sprinkle a lot of those things in.
01;10;07;19 - 01;10;32;07
Unknown
And, so it's kind of paying attention. I had the old document up for a while, just kind of comparing to see where you made changes and the things that you moved around or added or excised. And, I agreed with pretty much all of them, even just little things. I think in this version you pay a lot more attention to where the pseudo can is and what use it as an opportunity to give, Bradley a lot of different little action bits between dialog.
01;10;32;10 - 01;10;57;03
Unknown
It kind of represents Warren's acceptance of the proposal, like you specified as a physical object, which is cool. But more than any of those little things I love, how much in this section you just emphasize that Bradley is he's a really skilled used car salesman. He uses these psychological tactics like reciprocity, like he uses the phrase at one point, I'm going to do you a favor, kid.
01;10;57;04 - 01;11;14;19
Unknown
You know, like, I'm not going to put this on your record. I will not I'll leave your name out of the report and say it was a John Doe, referring to the The Hound. He he's giving him insider information. So Warren almost feels like, you know, maybe I owe this guy. Maybe I can trust this guy because he's the one.
01;11;14;27 - 01;11;28;04
Unknown
I think we mentioned this a little bit. The first go around with this chapter is that maybe he's someone that I can trust a little bit more, and you start to see that little creep happen. And it goes from, I don't trust this guy as far as I can throw him, which we've established, you know, it's not very far.
01;11;28;04 - 01;11;53;24
Unknown
A big dude, to. Okay. And what I'm going to see what your, what you're selling here to. Okay. Maybe I will say my name on the dotted line. Tell me more about this. So I really appreciate all that. I appreciate it. Also, perhaps the most powerful tactic that Bradley employed was the emotional tactic, gesturing to his badge a couple of times, which, you know, Warren, Bradley is not dumb.
01;11;53;24 - 01;12;11;07
Unknown
He knows who Warren's dad was, that he was in law enforcement. And the fact that this is going to have significant emotional appeal, even if Warren is not a dumb kid, he knows he can't necessarily trust everyone with a badge. And yet that's going to have some weight if if not subconsciously, you know? So I thought that was really well done.
01;12;11;09 - 01;12;43;17
Unknown
And you also kind of take the chance, using this chapter's real estate to, mention, Isaac, who is a character who kind of felt a little rushed in previous versions, his name was thrown out once or twice, before being introduced, and I, I like the fact that you're giving us a little bit more background on him and the rest of, you know, the old guard, that generation, that Bradley, you know, solved mysteries with was part of the original Scooby Dang with gang with back in the day.
01;12;43;19 - 01;13;04;01
Unknown
And Bradley just uses he man, he's a master manipulator using little things like, oh, yeah, I, I don't see eye to eye with your principal anymore, but he was a BA back in the day. We still got a lot in common. You know, I'm the one that's doing stuff now. Just I love it. The section was good the first time around, and it is great this time around.
01;13;04;01 - 01;13;25;18
Unknown
I think that this is a great example. Yeah. Taking all of the just masterful wisdom that I in particular have given you and a bit of credit to Jacob, I implement it into your book. I'm sure your beta readers had nothing to do with it right? It was definitely all of you guys can buy that. That really made me able to write the scene, but it's cool to see that happen though.
01;13;25;18 - 01;13;32;02
Unknown
Dude, just, Yeah, you're it's only getting stronger. It's only getting better.
01;13;32;04 - 01;13;59;29
Unknown
Awesome. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Nothing. Nothing bad. Greg, I'm sure there's something we can hints around here usually. Like you can feel a little bit more of that. I mean, I also didn't want to belabor points that I feel like I made the first go around. And at a certain point, I just closed the old document because I wanted to stop kind of, poisoning the well in terms of like, well, what did I comment the first time or what did I not like the first time around?
01;13;59;29 - 01;14;14;12
Unknown
I'd like to not like that this time around. You know, I suppose when I close the old document so I can make this as fresh of an experience as possible and just read the dialog and all of that in real time. And I thought it played out well. I do have comments. I'm sure there's a few negatives.
01;14;14;15 - 01;14;31;01
Unknown
I usually try to get you on something, but for sure, for sure, as you should. Awesome. Thanks guys. I really appreciate it. I, I was really happy with how this scene turned out and came obviously this is the first time you read the scene. See the difference, but I was really happy with that as well. I know it was really well done.
01;14;31;04 - 01;15;02;28
Unknown
Thank you. My, my biggest thing, you know, I just wanted to make sure that Warren's motivations of helping the baddies was, was clearer and yeah, did that does this scene. Yes. Oh yeah. Yeah I, I have I have no illusions as to why Warren is helping them despite previous conflicts with them. It makes sense. You know, I was a little bit sad that they had to cut the fight between Warren and Bradley, but there then I was wondering about that.
01;15;03;05 - 01;15;28;06
Unknown
Maybe that's real danger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it escalated really quickly the first time around, and I enjoyed that just because I enjoy that in the book. But it doesn't mean that it's something that's necessary in this section that you know, or that what your readership might want or it might benefit the plot overall. So, yeah, I respect the decision to to tear out my beating heart is fine.
01;15;28;08 - 01;16;00;05
Unknown
Awesome. Yeah. You guys kind of answered all the questions I was going to have. Glad. I'm glad this one looked better. Okay. And then there was one. And then there was one. Q future JK hey everyone. Future JK here giving context for tonight's piece. It is actually not from Technomancer. It is from my, y, fantasy mystery series that I'm working on.
01;16;00;07 - 01;16;30;04
Unknown
The, main character, Sarah, who wants to live a normal, quiet life, ends up finding out that that's not going to be in her future. And this, this is just the first two chapters. The introduction to Sarah. Introduction a little bit to the world. It's set in a Victorian esque setting. And yeah, it's not a lot of context to give on this one.
01;16;30;04 - 01;17;02;10
Unknown
Not a lot of spoilers or anything like that. The, the series is in its infancy, so I hope you enjoy the feedback or listening to the feedback, and hopefully they don't turn to me too much. Yeah. And then Kim, right. Okay. Well, I was completely hooked by this main character right away. Like from sentence one. I got a sense of who she was, and she's just one of those voices where I could trust her to take me somewhere really interesting.
01;17;02;10 - 01;17;27;24
Unknown
And I just wanted to follow her earlier on all day. And as someone who writes in a little bit of the same vibe, I was just totally into that Regency early Victorian vibe with some magic. It's like that combination is like catnip. I love it so much. And I will say, that I really liked her voice in chapter one, and it was enough to keep me reading.
01;17;27;26 - 01;17;46;11
Unknown
But I was curious where the story was going at first. We know she has, like, some harrowing experiences. I wasn't sure what those were. You know, her brother was given a rating of 20. You know, she has, like, some family things, but she's got a great family. But I presume she's really famous that people are talking about her.
01;17;46;14 - 01;18;03;26
Unknown
I just read it was like, even just 1 or 2 more little hints about who she was or where this is going, just so that I could be like, okay, yeah, I'm going to keep following. So I, know what happens with this woman. Especially with the mages, I feel like mages are really different and everything read, read.
01;18;03;26 - 01;18;24;11
Unknown
And so, I just wanted a little taste of what they were like. Like, are we talking, like, elevated scholars? Are they people who could, like, accidentally blow something up? Like, I just wasn't sure where you're going with that for her. And it's still really early, so I'm okay waiting on some of those things, but I think just even a detail or two would have made me feel a little more grounded.
01;18;24;13 - 01;18;40;16
Unknown
To understand the stakes once we get to chapter two. And then I thought the, blessing ceremony was just brilliantly crafted. I feel like we just kept turning the dial up. It was like, okay, a little bit more. It was like, oh, what's going to happen? And a little bit more and a little bit more. And then we get to the end.
01;18;40;19 - 01;18;57;00
Unknown
It was like, oh no, something really big is going to happen. And then you totally delivered. And I just, I was so mad when it ended because I just really wanted to binge this thing, and I'm actually really not. I don't have a chapter three. So, we're really well done. And I love this chapter. Thank you.
01;18;57;02 - 01;19;20;07
Unknown
And it's only that. Great. No. Yes, yes. Okay. Cool. So yes, I am, also reading this section for the first time, although the document name was different, lost Souls. Is that the new working title? That's a new working title for the first book. Well, then groceries in this for the second time, he said he's reading for the first time.
01;19;20;07 - 01;19;44;18
Unknown
He's actually reading for the sake. So did I say that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's again. Okay. Well, I felt like I was reading it for the first time because it was just. That's just what I meant to say. So yes, I, I will stand by, what I recall from reading and commenting on this the first time, which is, of course, the very strong sense of voice on the part of, your protagonist here.
01;19;44;25 - 01;20;17;09
Unknown
Continue to love that. The the period is very clear from the diction. You know, obviously, this is, you know, this is make believe this isn't an exact analog for Earth. But all that feels very obvious right away, which is great. I remember the fact that, it's not Tyler and me. I was at least, kind of hoping that, we might be able to spend a little bit of time with young Sarah at least one episode in her life and, particularly honing in on the maid ceremony, which seemed very important to her.
01;20;17;11 - 01;20;39;05
Unknown
And, I'm glad that we got to to spend that time. This feels stronger to me than the last iteration. There are a lot of these cool details, I think, you know, we mentioned before the calendar system, I think it's like the month of Greenleaf or something like that, which just grabs me. I love those, just those little throwaway details that remind us that we're in a different time and place.
01;20;39;05 - 01;20;58;23
Unknown
That is interesting. You continue to do that. The 13 distant gods invoked as a benediction, is just kind of awesome because I'm like, okay, tell me more about that. There's 13 distant gods. Is this like, you know, how exactly does this work? And not that you have to answer that right away in order to you, nor should you.
01;20;58;25 - 01;21;20;20
Unknown
But that's awesome. I, I will say that in this section, everything feels like smooth sailing for the main character from from where I'm sitting. I know that we've gotten on to you in the past about being a little too nice to your your character, Stacy. You know, in conflict is the essence of drama is the essence of interest.
01;21;20;20 - 01;21;41;00
Unknown
Right? So. Right. I feel like there there could be opportunity here, even if it's comedic hurdles or misunderstandings with the other children waiting in line. You have a sense of suspense that she's waiting in line, which is great. But I feel like there's really not too much in the way of conflicts, and I'm just thinking of different ways in which she might be able to drum that up without burning up.
01;21;41;03 - 01;21;48;21
Unknown
Too much in the way of word count here. I don't know if you guys have any thoughts on that.
01;21;48;24 - 01;21;59;02
Unknown
Yeah. Let's see. There's, a couple instances I like to doing you on passive voice. Due to to to do.
01;21;59;05 - 01;22;22;06
Unknown
I there's a couple of lines are really like, mother had to keep pulling green car lines from baby Henry's grasping little hands. I just love that. So cute. Let's see. A couple of awkward phrasings that I pointed out that you could, there might be typos like, instead of, on behalf of regarding, potential affair.
01;22;22;08 - 01;22;29;12
Unknown
Forget the other word choice that would make that more clear.
01;22;29;15 - 01;22;55;05
Unknown
You. Yeah. Let's see. I think that's just about the gist of of what I've got for you. Jesse, this is, this is a strong opener. And, of course, there's draft upon draft. You know, keep making it even better. Even more what it needs to be, you know, especially strong foundation for what I'm sure is going to be in the rest of a great novel.
01;22;55;07 - 01;22;59;18
Unknown
Hopefully, hopefully.
01;22;59;20 - 01;23;24;16
Unknown
All right. Who do we have up next? It's definitely not me. I have nothing intelligent to say about this, so, just, just to kind of key off of what? What can it. What? First of all, very good. Jesse. Okay. Let me let me talk about, Okay. Got one thing on my mind I'm going to set aside for just for just a second.
01;23;24;18 - 01;23;44;27
Unknown
They say the the good thing because there are many, definitely, definitely spruced up. I love the, I didn't do the great treatment where I had both of your old documents, but the old chapter in this chapter in these chapters, up at the same time. So I'm not exactly sure if I remember right. What's changed? But I feel like the, the, the ceremonies changed.
01;23;45;00 - 01;24;08;08
Unknown
I think you've done a lot more world building there. We've got the 13 decent guys, which I don't remember from the last. From the last time. That's super cool. The whole, the whole greetings, the, the little hand gestures that they do, I think that's really cool. Makes it feel like a real thing. I feel like there's there's much less.
01;24;08;10 - 01;24;31;09
Unknown
I feel like one of the, one of the things we did the. On the last time you read this was language that was didn't necessarily fit with the time period. I felt like that was really cleaned up. Your I think you did a really, really good job there. To go into what both of what what Grace said and what Kim said great with the lack of conflict and Kim with wanting a little bit more about kind of a hint for the future.
01;24;31;12 - 01;24;53;07
Unknown
I think if you have a more of a hint for for all of the infamous cataclysmic whatever she gets up to in the future, I think if you hit a little bit more of that, not nothing specific, but just making it clear that people think she's a bad person. Which I don't think you actually, do in this one.
01;24;53;07 - 01;25;15;18
Unknown
There's a bunch of. What did you say? It's just an attempt to correct some of the more outrageous stories that people have published. I mean, I read this doesn't tell me that she's portrayed as a bad person, which is, I think is the feeling I got from the last time reading this. I think if you make that because that is your plan, right?
01;25;15;21 - 01;25;51;27
Unknown
So she. How much do you want me to go in detail? Because I know what's going to happen. What? You. I don't want you to go into detail that she's going to be okay. So she is viewed as, a. Her and her friends are viewed as, saviors. Essentially, there is an imbalance. Gotcha. That she becomes responsible for correcting and get through the process of doing that.
01;25;52;00 - 01;26;09;29
Unknown
She gains in fame and in some places, infamy. Gotcha. Okay. I'm going to take back everything I just said then, because it was because I had it in my mind. It was more of like a covert, like name of the one situation where he's telling the story, where he was definitely, like, portrayed as the bad guy.
01;26;10;01 - 01;26;29;15
Unknown
But yeah, if that's not the case, then don't do it then, man. Okay, take it all back. My other really the only other thing that I wanted to talk about with this, you have kind of this awkward little info dump, where you talk about, like, how all these different things matter, but name and rating, mage rating, they're all.
01;26;29;16 - 01;26;54;28
Unknown
They're all things of the same. It feels like the audience would know that. Like the, like the imagine audience, that because she's writing to her people, she's writing to correct rumors. It especially in especially since everyone goes to this ceremony to figure out what their rating is. I feel like everyone will know that, I did have an idea for how to mitigate part of this.
01;26;55;01 - 01;27;14;11
Unknown
If I remember correctly, you're going to have in the next few chapters, you're going to introduce, an elf who's going to be like her maid. I feel like she could be a character who's inexperienced with things like this. And, and I this might be totally against what you're actually planning on. So don't vote. Right. You know, take it as you will.
01;27;14;14 - 01;27;40;17
Unknown
But she could be someone who could be asking these questions and be beginning these answers for the reader. I forget if she was originally a knowledgeable character or not, but that that's an option. Actually, I actually that that's that's really helpful because the thing that you that we've talked about before with my books is I have experienced characters as narrators, so it's hard to get that information in.
01;27;40;19 - 01;28;11;17
Unknown
And the maid, Adela the elf, she would work as that, that foil, that inexperienced. So yeah. Are you suggesting that this, this book or in the form of a letter or, memoir could now be written to this character specifically instead of to a general audience? That's that's not what I was suggesting. Just let's just like having her there and using her dialog to ask the questions that the readers are wondering.
01;28;11;24 - 01;28;41;20
Unknown
Yeah. Because yeah, yeah. Because that's the the writing it in the style. You're right. She's writing it to her people. Her people have, the background information. But adding in Adela the Elf with questions, why this? Why this, might be might be helpful. Could bring up another opportunity. JK. I'll just throw this at you and it's a little bit stereotypical, so probably just maybe use that as a springboard.
01;28;41;20 - 01;28;59;02
Unknown
But regarding introducing conflict, if you have a character here who is clearly a friend of your protagonist or the protagonist is willing to stick up for them or answer questions, to dispel her ignorance during the ceremony, there could be other kids that are getting really fed up with that, or annoyed like, don't you know? Don't you know what a man rating of nerdy entails?
01;28;59;02 - 01;29;16;19
Unknown
You know, don't you know this is a really good family? Yeah. If the main character like, you know, continues, answers questions or steps up for her, even a minor way that creates, that begins to form that emotional bond between us, the reader and then also, your protagonist and that that secondary character at the same time. Yeah.
01;29;16;20 - 01;29;37;22
Unknown
I feel like that that idea also just for this specific time with the man a blessing man reading a mage rating, I feel like you don't have to explain it. I feel like that is not maybe not super clear, but clear enough that people will be able to figure it out. But just in the future when you're when obviously there's going to be lots of other things to explain.
01;29;37;24 - 01;30;01;14
Unknown
Yeah, that could be a good way to do. Yeah, yeah, really, really well done. I guess I'm I'm excited to be back in this world. I really enjoyed, technomancer. But this is the first one. Back when back then, gray and I were we whippersnapper sitting on your knee and getting all the wisdom from again back when we were under six feet tall.
01;30;01;16 - 01;30;21;02
Unknown
But taller than me. And how tall are you, Kim? Are you over six feet over me? No. Oh, I don't know. This is going to work out. Maybe I'm seven feet, I don't know. Yeah. Wait. What do you say? I'm like, are you guys 70 year old to. I'm seven years old to. Oh yeah. 0I7. Yeah. So we have in common.
01;30;21;04 - 01;30;42;20
Unknown
Yeah. I thought you said like someone, your husband or someone of your family was seven feet tall. I'm like, oh my goodness. Get him on the podcast. No. Yeah. She, she could have been tall by association there. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. Tall friends. I have friends in tall place since.
01;30;42;23 - 01;31;07;18
Unknown
Oh. Oh, man. That's okay. These are fun for the week. There are no further questions. Right. Your honor, actually, I'm trying to think you don't. You don't get to ask me questions. Gray has already missed this. Yeah. We got to go over questions.
01;31;07;20 - 01;31;43;28
Unknown
I had a question. I haven't a question yet. No. That's fine. I have my brain. I have migraine brain. So, Sorry. So, So, shoot, part of the reason I threw in that explanation about the the mana blessing rating and all that is because I realized I'd use those terms interchangeably, and they are interchangeable. So it's good to know that that I the way I did it is is can be adjusted.
01;31;43;28 - 01;32;27;17
Unknown
That's fine. There. Yeah, I know, now I'll see what you guys think about the next chapters. Next time. Hopefully I get enough enough of it really revised based off of your last comments, I think I have. But yeah, no using using her made as a, as a sort of a source of ignorance might be a great way to do it or I'll have to adjust her character a little bit, but I think it will serve the story overall because she didn't have a strong voice originally, when I wrote her in like, I knew she needed to be there, but a that might give her more of a purpose, more of a
01;32;27;17 - 01;32;55;03
Unknown
voice. So I appreciate that. Otherwise, I don't really have much left. I was trying to evoke a little bit of the Sorting Hat ceremony, if I'm being honest with the blessing ceremony. So I think adding a few more kids and maybe a little bit of of just kids being kids would probably give the, the comedic timing that I need.
01;32;55;05 - 01;33;23;27
Unknown
There's no Draco Malfoy. Yeah, he shows up later, for sure. So yeah, there's there's I'm going to be focusing a little bit more on their school life. And there, there are a couple of big there's a big time jump that will come simply because it's a memoir that's written to the people in their kingdom in the first two years of schooling.
01;33;23;29 - 01;33;47;10
Unknown
Doesn't matter if you have a mage rating, if you don't have a mage rating, if, whatever it is, those first two years, 12 and 13 are the same for everybody, and so everybody's gone through it. So I kind of I'm going to kind of wave away those. And it's their third year of school when they start getting their specific this is what it means to be a mage training.
01;33;47;10 - 01;34;00;21
Unknown
And that's that's what's going to happen. So hopefully I can make it interesting enough up to that point that people don't get bored. Yeah.
01;34;00;24 - 01;34;20;29
Unknown
Well, stakes in conflict JK yeah, I told you before. Yeah. And I'm working on that. I'm working on that. So awesome. Now hold on man. Her voice is strong enough that I feel like it will carry a lot. But yeah, yeah, I agree. I think a few more sticks are up. Yeah, yeah. This book started from the very first line of chapter one.
01;34;20;29 - 01;34;47;13
Unknown
Like that line just popped into my head. So I pulled out my laptop and and wrote it. So those are the best. It was just meant to come into being, you know? Yeah. In the hole in the ground lived The Hobbit. Yes. Yes. Yeah. The voice yeah. Okay. I, the passive voice thing. I'll have you know that that is a common trope in this style of writing.
01;34;47;13 - 01;35;04;01
Unknown
So I get away with it in this one. I try not to use it here, a unit. So point em out on that one. But I can use it. But that creative liberty, I don't think it's I don't think it's as big as it is. As gray tries to make it out to the sometimes passive voice that way has it.
01;35;04;04 - 01;35;33;26
Unknown
It has its place. Well, if my problem is, is, they use it all the time in Spanish. And so being bilingual, like, sometimes my brain will slip into a different mode when I'm writing, and so it'll, it'll, it'll slip into there. Like when I was first learning Spanish, I had a lisp when I was growing up and when I was first learning Spanish, getting to the point where I was fluent, the Lisp started coming back out a little bit.
01;35;33;28 - 01;35;52;08
Unknown
So. It's more it's more more about JC's story. Oh, there's layers. He's like an onion. Yes. Like a 50 year old onion. And you know, 70. 70. Yes.
01;35;52;11 - 01;36;17;12
Unknown
I'm glad somebody said it. And it doesn't always have to be me. I live in is village really have a dirty jokes this time with him. It's like I think it's up a little bit. Yeah. So 32 hours. I don't tell him that you're, you're. Gray had any pie lately?
01;36;17;14 - 01;36;42;29
Unknown
Hey, I thought we were going to call that last episode how the sausage was made. That was that parody. Dang it. We just stock stock unity. You guys need to help me name the name of the episodes. Because. Because it's always, like, Tuesday night. I'm like, what? What is it going off? Oh. That's funny. Anyway, all right, we're an hour and a half, probably more so with their context.
01;36;42;29 - 01;37;13;00
Unknown
So that being a longer episode, dear listener, we do have a fantastic topic to cover with you, and I'm now going to hand it over to Kim. All right, so we are talking about developmental editing. And so I recently worked with a developmental editor. And I know Tyler is the developmental editor. And so, we just wanted to talk a little bit about what that experience is like.
01;37;13;02 - 01;37;43;14
Unknown
And I guess, and I realize is a kind of a it's a very general question that we kind of put together. So I apologize for that. Maybe start just start with like, how did you find your perfect developmental developmental other? Because of course, your editor is perfect. Of course he's perfect. It's not really. Actually, it's really great, but I, you know, I went through a lot of beta readers or, I guess, more like critique partners.
01;37;43;17 - 01;38;11;13
Unknown
And they all have really wildly different things to say about my manuscript. And so at the end of the day, instead of taking out a few words that I wanted to hear, it just ballooned into this, like, really massive manuscript, and I didn't know quite where to take it. And so, at first I thought, oh, I could probably cut down some things myself, but I felt like I kept going threads out and it would pull out more threads and more threads, and I was like, I feel like this whole thing is unraveling, so I need some outside help.
01;38;11;16 - 01;38;30;18
Unknown
And so I actually met her at a conference. She did a presentation. And I really like the presentation, and I chatted with her afterwards. We really vibed. And then I met a couple other writers who, had used her for their novels and their novels I'd read, and I've. Oh, I actually really like novel. She must have done a great job.
01;38;30;18 - 01;38;49;08
Unknown
And so, we connected and, with most developmental writers, they offer, like a free sample chapter to kind of see what their edits are like, so you can get a sense if they're a good fit for you or not. And so I reached out, she gave me a sample edit on my first chapter, and it was exactly what I was looking for.
01;38;49;08 - 01;39;10;08
Unknown
I could tell she knew kind of the vision. She kind of knew my genre. She writes a mission or two, and that's kind of her main thing that she edits as well. And so, it seemed like a really good fit. So I hired her and she edited the novel, and, we just took our, like, phone call follow ups on call this week where we went through some things.
01;39;10;11 - 01;39;34;26
Unknown
So. Yeah, I don't know what the experience is like for you, Tyler, when you're doing her developmental edits. I just tear everybody's hearts out. I read things apart. I mean, no, but like. Like, how have you felt like, as as presumably she's been giving you a bunch of feedback. Is that to a development I was supposed to do?
01;39;34;26 - 01;39;51;25
Unknown
But. And how is it, how is it, I guess, how is it felt? It seems kind of a dumb question, but how how is your experience been? I think if I'd been a younger writer, I would be like, oh, she doesn't like my stuff, but I think I've just been through. So, I mean, I've written a lot of other things.
01;39;51;25 - 01;40;12;15
Unknown
Maybe not novels, but but so many other things that it's sort of like, yes, I'm so grateful. Like I just drink it up. I'm like, so grateful to have the, the constructive criticism, I guess, because I know it's going to serve my novel and make it so much better. And so, yeah. And I feel like, she's been really great because she's also given me a lot of, like, tailored resources.
01;40;12;15 - 01;40;33;00
Unknown
So she sent me this villain overlord trope, lists of things I made, like a Star Trek backwards. Star Trek Deep Space Nine was on the you, like, have this like list of tropes that over the evil overlords were making that I didn't know existed. But somewhere on the internet and she found it for me. And one of my villains was using one of the tropes.
01;40;33;00 - 01;40;48;09
Unknown
I thought, oh, this is actually really helpful. I was looking through the tropes. I thought, oh, there's a lot of other tropes on here that I'm using for other things, so I need to take those out. So I feel like she had a lot of resources like that and books and just kind of, really tailored things that are going to help me be a better writer.
01;40;48;09 - 01;40;58;03
Unknown
And not just not just for this project, but for Lance. So, yeah, that's awesome. Nice.
01;40;58;06 - 01;41;20;15
Unknown
So so you've gone through how many rounds with her? Is this like your first round or you're going to another one in the first round? Okay. Yeah. So are you planning on you're going to do your revisions and then give it to her again or. Yeah that's the plan. Or I might, I might actually I might revise and then query because I feel like I do the development.
01;41;20;15 - 01;41;36;13
Unknown
So once I get it down to kind of what I want and I'd like the experience of working. Oh yeah. It's rough. Yeah, I, I just, I know, I know if I decide to publish this is a very big possibility. I'd go with her again and do like a another round. So yeah. Kind of more the line editing.
01;41;36;16 - 01;42;02;19
Unknown
Right. Yeah. Well I will, I will say just on a side note, if you're looking for another editor, Christy Pinkston, who did the keynote at, Eagle Mountain, she's also an editor. She does. Yes. She does a lot of editing. So, yeah. Just as you know, there's other editors besides me. Jason, I totally thought he's going to namedrop you.
01;42;02;25 - 01;42;24;08
Unknown
I say, sorry. When it comes to Kim's work trustees, who comes to this is who comes to mind after having read some of her stuff. So while I have it, my wife, Christy has way more experience than I do, and she she probably lives more in the genre anyway. So yeah, I'm not actually into Jason. I know you're not.
01;42;24;14 - 01;42;30;17
Unknown
01;42;30;20 - 01;42;53;23
Unknown
Graded you have. I just I just love hearing about the thick skin that you've developed. Like, this has been a process for you writing and going the rounds with critique partners or whoever and kind of, you know, you know, getting dissatisfied to the point where you needed to seek out a professional, but you also were building up your your skills in one area, at least you were you were learning how to take criticism.
01;42;54;00 - 01;43;12;07
Unknown
You just needed, you know, the best guidance possible. And the fact that, like, even what you would consider, like negative criticism is, is good for you, it's positive for you. It's a net good because she's pointing out things, you know, that can be made better and stronger. And I love the fact that you're so open to that part of the process.
01;43;12;07 - 01;43;33;06
Unknown
And it's it's only going to make you better. You know, it's like what we do here. But that next level, you. Yeah. I mean, what you do here is also, you know, it's very similar. So yeah that's good. It's all in service of making us better. So if you almost have to separate the the work that you're doing from the person.
01;43;33;06 - 01;43;51;02
Unknown
So it's not like you're a bad person. It's just, oh we can make this better. It's not even it's not even that it's bad. I feel like there's always potential in any writing, or any creative project or endeavor. There's so much potential there, and it's just about making sure it's reaching its highest potential. So yeah. Yeah, I was true.
01;43;51;04 - 01;44;15;26
Unknown
I was the piece of advice that I got, not last year that this most recent Eagle Mountain, but last year, 20, 20 fives from David wrote a back. He, he did the boot camp last year as well. And he always says you're critiquing the right the the you're not critiquing the writer. You're critiquing the writing. Now it's two separate things, you know?
01;44;15;29 - 01;44;43;23
Unknown
And so when we as writers realize that and understand that, that you are trying to take what I have written and make it the best version of it, and it has nothing to do with me as a person and my abilities. Then it becomes a lot easier for us as writers to say, okay, I can look at this critique for what it is and either accept it, utilize it, or say, maybe it's not for me.
01;44;43;25 - 01;45;08;29
Unknown
So. Then we talk about this a lot. Being the podcast is what it is, but it's so important to have other people look at your work, whether it's somebody you're paying and to do, like a professional job of untangling all the threads, like like Kim is with her, with her editor, or you just have a couple buddies who will do it for you for free while they publish a podcast with you and make fun of this other and, and make dirty jokes.
01;45;09;01 - 01;45;31;19
Unknown
You got to have somebody else, somebody else's eyes looking at your work because they're they're going to see things that you're not going to see. They're going to be able to, affirm who you are kind of as a writer, like, I know and again, this is something we've talked about, but, I really went between, like, imposter syndrome, thinking that I was an offer writer to thinking now is the best writer in the world.
01;45;31;26 - 01;45;56;03
Unknown
And I ended up somewhere in the middle because with the help of these guys, so super, super important, it's going to be a massive, massive difference for your work. And JC, you know, you and I both finished a book while we were on this podcast because we were on this podcast. Yeah, I should say in the writing group because I think we both actually finished it before the podcast.
01;45;56;03 - 01;46;31;29
Unknown
I finished mine like the day of the first. No, I. I finished, I think I finished it, like episode two, right? I think because we mentioned the, the huge writing sprint that I did that we had and great and great. You've published a lot more on your on your Substack and you've started your website, and we've pushed Jesse into doing a YouTube video, and we're going to push Kim into querying and publishing and getting a huge advance and all that good stuff maybe deals with that.
01;46;31;29 - 01;46;53;27
Unknown
Yeah, sure. Can I share that one story? Sure. So encouraging. Just talking about how you guys are kind of giving me the push we're giving each other the push in little ways, even if I haven't surmounted that mountain yet. Right. Or even getting to the process with beta readers. I, you know, because now we're doing this and so now we're looking at events, right?
01;46;53;27 - 01;47;06;18
Unknown
So we've got Comic-Con set up. So I'm like, cool. Now I have a firm timetable for when I need to make sure that my stuff is polished and out in the world. So that I have something, you know, something to show for myself. When people ask like, what is it? You're right. Can I read something that you're right?
01;47;06;18 - 01;47;39;00
Unknown
Like, okay, well, now you can check out my website. And I start an email distribution, email newsletter just the other day. And I'm slowly getting less terrible at that. But I had a coworker come up to me who I, had almost forgotten that I, she had signed up for my my list. Right. And so there's a free reader magnet short story, the one that you guys had read and give me feedback on, the one that, you know, and, and she came up to me just, like, on a break and like, wow, this is really good.
01;47;39;00 - 01;48;00;08
Unknown
Like, thank you so much for sending that my way. And I was like, oh, my gosh. The feeling of just knowing that you don't suck and being validated, even if you're not perfect and you're going to have to keep getting better at your craft, is such a powerful motivator. Just says endorphins, the happy hormones to, to keep going, you know, and and get to the next, the next milestone.
01;48;00;08 - 01;48;26;23
Unknown
So thank you guys. Hey. Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. All the feedback we get here is is vital and necessary. So to those that are listening, if you want to be a better writer like Tyler said, find somebody that's willing to give you not just feedback but honest feedback. Like I joke, like people joke with me, but I use my wife as my primary, source of feedback.
01;48;26;25 - 01;48;48;29
Unknown
But my wife doesn't read the genres that I write in general. Mystery and thriller is my overarching genre, and that's not her thing at all. It actually is really helpful because when she reads them, she asks me questions that a normal mystery and thriller reader might not ask, because they're used to the tropes and the cliches of the genre.
01;48;49;01 - 01;49;01;04
Unknown
And so I have to make sure that I'm being better at writing than I would be normally. So, Stephen, anybody that picks it up can read it.
01;49;01;06 - 01;49;35;12
Unknown
Absolutely. Amanda. That. Yeah. Okay. Well, go to hairstylist Blogger.com, hire me to edit your book. Go to great order books.com. What is your website? Great great order books.com. Get it right JC baby book. No just JC baby.com JC baby.com and Kim are you you're on Instagram I know. Do you have anything else. Yeah that'll say it okay. But you'll motivate me to do that I just make Kim will make a website.
01;49;35;12 - 01;49;59;09
Unknown
She will start a YouTube channel. She'll start a GoFundMe for, for publishing her book. She'll do all the things. Hey, Kickstarter, let me know if you do something like that. Crowdfund. I'd love to help. You can? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's next on my list. But that's for a different project for your RPG. Yeah, that's for my RPG, guys.
01;49;59;12 - 01;50;17;29
Unknown
Let's go. Yeah. That's cool. Cool. Do really fun hanging out with you guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was fun. Thanks for having me on. Goodbye, dear listener. We love you. Farewell. Awkward waves fill up.