The world of hydrogen is coming to life in Rotterdam

In this podcast series, host Celwin Frenzen dives into the world of hydrogen, which is coming to life in Rotterdam. In episode 1, Celwin talks to Randolf Weterings from the Port of Rotterdam about the status of all hydrogen projects in the port of Rotterdam, and to Diederick Luijten from Air Liquide to find about their hydrogen projects.

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Celwin Frenzen: 00:05

Welcome to Hello Hydrogen. A podcast series by the Port of Rotterdam Authority about the world of hydrogen which is coming to life in Rotterdam. In this first episode, I will find out the status of all the hydrogen projects in Rotterdam, which are already in development, and the projects which will soon take their FIDs. To find out all there is to know about these projects, I will be talking to Randolf Voehtring from the Port Authority and Diedre Glite from Air Liquide. To start things off, I'm joined by Randulf, who is program manager, electrification and hydrogen at the Port Authority.

Celwin Frenzen: 00:49

He tells me Rotterdam is already making big steps when it comes to the hydrogen economy coming to life.

Randolf Weterings: 00:55

So we are moving actually quite fast, I would say. So, compared to to last year, we've seen, several FIDs, several projects that are now in construction. So it's really great to show everybody around and let them see what the hydrogen economy means. So we have a couple of, well I would say infrastructure, projects in construction. And the great thing of that is that multiple companies can join that infrastructure.

Randolf Weterings: 01:24

So with the start of the infrastructure, the first projects will, will start up. And for the next project, it is much easier to continue.

Celwin Frenzen: 01:34

And what kind of infrastructure projects are already in the works?

Randolf Weterings: 01:39

Yeah. So we have one project, related to the production. So the conversion park 1, which is in, in construction with the first project in there, being the, Shell Horned Hydrogen 1 project, the 200 megawatt. Mhmm. We have the, the infrastructure that is being built is the, open access infrastructure, the pipeline throughout whole port.

Randolf Weterings: 02:03

So from the conversion part, from the production site towards the first user on the end of the port, meaning that the open access infrastructure is available, will become available for all the companies in between. And the first, terminals are being built. That's the first terminal. Yeah. So also import of hydrogen will, will start.

Celwin Frenzen: 02:22

Yeah. And, coming back to that later, the terminals. 1st, I want to focus on the conversion part. Can you tell us again, to us what did, what was the idea about the conversion part, bundling all those projects?

Randolf Weterings: 02:36

So the the conversion park 1 was the start of, scaling up the technology. So back then, when we started the conversion park, the technology or the

Randolf Weterings: 02:45

projects in construction were 10 megawatt. And what we

Randolf Weterings: 02:45

saw was that if you construction were 10 megawatts. And what we saw was that if you want to, scale up the hydrogen economy, if you want to start with renewables, you have to create a system that is at least the same, sort of size compared to a steam reformer, so on the basis of natural gas. Yeah. And, we determined that it was roughly, or we, I would say, all the companies back then in the hydrogen economy said, well, we need to go to 1 gigawatt scale, so 1,000 megawatts.

Randolf Weterings: 03:15

So

Randolf Weterings: 03:16

we need to scale up the technology. We needed to scale up the technology from 10 megawatts all the way up to 1,000 megawatts. And we checked that with several companies to see, okay, what is the maximum step that you are willing to take? And we concluded that it was 200, 250 megawatts. That was the first step that the company said, well, from 10 megawatt to 250 megawatt is already a big step, and that's the biggest step that I can take at this point of time.

Randolf Weterings: 03:42

But we wanted to create the infrastructure already for 1,000 megawatts so that we can learn, okay, this is how the system should look like. Mhmm. So conversion part 1, we decided, okay, we will put 4 different large scale, hydrogen projects very close to each other other

Randolf Weterings: 03:56

in

Randolf Weterings: 03:56

such a way that we can create the infrastructure as if it is 1,000 megawatts, but with 4 different projects. And that was Conversion Park 1. And now you see that the first project, the 200 megawatt of elect, of Shell is being constructed. That was one of the elements of the conversion park. And the other side of the conversion park development that we had in mind was we want to make that location as efficient as possible.

Randolf Weterings: 04:26

So that means that, all the energy that comes into the conversion park, we would like to get most of it out again. And 75 percent of the energy that you put into the conversion park will, will be related into, into the conversion from water towards hydrogen. And 25% will come out as heat.

Celwin Frenzen: 04:45

Okay.

Randolf Weterings: 04:46

And that 25% is also something that we would like to capture and bring that to the heat roundabout in Rotterdam. And this is something that you can do also on large scale. So if you have a project with 10 megawatts, then 2 and a half megawatt of heat is not so, so much. Definitely not to connect it with a pipeline. But if you have 1,000 megawatt and 250 megawatt of that is heat, then it's worthwhile to capture that as well and to use that.

Celwin Frenzen: 05:13

Okay.

Randolf Weterings: 05:13

So this is also something that we put into this project. Yeah. And that we would like to learn and to implement also where, in the next one.

Celwin Frenzen: 05:20

Okay. And you said the first one of 4 projects is currently being built. The other 3, what are the status of those?

Randolf Weterings: 05:28

So the other 3 are developing. So they're not yet in the phase of taking FID. They are very close to that. But of course there are a couple of things that they need. For one of the examples of the, one of the, I would say, big conditions that they need is they need to, they need to win part of the green electricity that will come on the market.

Randolf Weterings: 05:49

Yeah. Because without green electricity, if you don't have the power available, then you cannot make green hydrogen. So what you now see is that new wind farms will come onto the market. So the tender for Heimite Ferry is now open. Yeah.

Randolf Weterings: 06:05

And we expect that if a company that is in the conversion park will win that bid, they will start constructing that one as well.

Celwin Frenzen: 06:13

Okay, clear. And you said conversion park 1, so a second one is already in the works or? Yep. Okay.

Randolf Weterings: 06:20

Yeah, so our ambition is 2, 2 and a half gigawatts by 2,030. And with 1, Converge Park 1, we have 1, so we need another one. And this one is, is very close to the new construction of the, the TENET high voltage grid. So we are constructing a new station for 380 kV.

Celwin Frenzen: 06:41

Yeah.

Randolf Weterings: 06:43

Which is an extension of the power grid. 2, new wind farms will be connected with that substation as well. And the new conversion park is very close to that, so that can have another connection with that substation.

Celwin Frenzen: 06:58

Are there already parties interested for that conversion park or are there, is the tender still out, for example?

Randolf Weterings: 07:03

Yeah, so in conversion part 1, we said, okay, which companies wanted to develop the scaling up of the technology from 10 megawatts to 250 megawatts. And we did it on the purpose of, let's say, first come, first serve. Yeah. What we see now is that the hydrogen economy is definitely picking up. This is something, well, what we recognize, not only in Rotterdam, but throughout the whole world, of course.

Randolf Weterings: 07:29

And what you see is that what we have said with conversion part 2 is that we don't do it again on 1st come, 1st serve because otherwise we have too many companies that wanted to develop a electrolyzer. Mhmm. And we saw that a company can only develop the electrolyzer if they have sourced the wind, the power, the green power.

Celwin Frenzen: 07:47

Yeah.

Randolf Weterings: 07:48

So we have combined it with the tender of Am I De Fer. So the Dutch government has put in, a tender onto the market for Am I de Fer. And part of that tender is 1,000 megawatt system integration. So we have said, okay, companies can come to us saying we want to build an electrolyzer. And if it is connected to Amidefaire, they can, well, they can develop it on that conversion park 1.

Randolf Weterings: 08:14

So we have multiple companies now that want to develop and electrolyze on the conversion park, sorry, conversion park 2. Yeah. And the one that wins the bid tender, the wind tender, they can start constructing the electrolyzer on that site.

Celwin Frenzen: 08:27

And those FIDs that we're expecting for conversion park 1 and stuff like that, when are we expecting them? So this year?

Randolf Weterings: 08:35

So that the, the tender for Am I the Fair, we know who will win that this year. Okay, so if one of the parties in there, is connected to that, then I expect another FID this year indeed.

Celwin Frenzen: 08:48

But I believe there's more electrolyzers in the work, in the works in the Port of Rotterdam in, for example, Uniper and Eneko, right? Correct. But they are going to build them on their own sites?

Randolf Weterings: 09:01

Yeah, so Uniper is planning to do it on their own site. It's in total a 500 megawatt electrolyzer that they are planning. The other one is, the Enecolyzer, which is, is on the side of eneko.

Celwin Frenzen: 09:18

Yeah. Correct. And, are they going to use those electrolyzers to decarbonize their own current plants or, is it just for using the backbone, for example?

Randolf Weterings: 09:29

Well, looking to the all the different projects that we have with electrolyzers, I would say it's both.

Randolf Weterings: 09:35

So, for

Randolf Weterings: 09:35

example, if you focus on the first one, it is connected with their refinery of Shell. Yeah. So they will deliver to, to the Shell refinery. But on the same time, they're also looking to other for other applications. And I think that is the right thing to do because, if you start feeding into a system that is already there, namely the refineries are using a lot of hydrogen, you can directly scale up your system, start using and developing and producing for this, this large scale system.

Randolf Weterings: 10:08

And then you make the, make it available for the new sectors, etcetera, to come. Because if you, for example, compare it with, compare it with trucks and with buses, a lot of companies want to start with 1 truck. But you cannot build a 200 megawatt scale electrolyzer for 1 truck. And you need the skill in order to bring the cost price of hydrogen down. So I think making use of the existing system helps you to reduce the cost and therefore enables also the development of new sectors and technologies.

Celwin Frenzen: 10:40

Yeah. All right. Clear. And then I heard that the Portos project, Carbon Capture Storage, is also going to start building this year. And I believe that will, also enable gray hydrogen companies to switch to blue?

Randolf Weterings: 10:55

So we have, roughly half a 1000000 tons of, hydrogen per per annum.

Randolf Weterings: 11:00

Mhmm. Each

Randolf Weterings: 11:01

year, it will be, it's produced here on the base of gray hydrogen. So meaning, we convert, or the companies convert, methane into, of natural gas into, CO2 and hydrogen. And at the moment, the hydrogen is being used and CO2 is going up in the air. And with the Portis Project, we have the possibility in order to decarbonize that, to create the gray hydrogen and turn that into blue hydrogen. So that means that the companies that have steam reformers in the port, which is Air Liquide, their products, their refineries, they have now the opportunity to decarbonize their gray hydrogen facilities and turn that into blue hydrogen.

Celwin Frenzen: 11:41

And how much, tonnage of CO2 goes into Portos each year?

Randolf Weterings: 11:45

So on annual basis, the Portals project will, do 2 and a half 1000000 tons per annum. Captured from the different sort of the different steam reformers together and the different, sources of CO2 that will where where they collect it. And in total, it will be 2 and a half million tons per annum transported towards an depleted gas field in the North Sea.

Celwin Frenzen: 12:06

This hydrogen backbone that we're building, it starts now at the conversion park and it goes throughout the port. But does it stop there or does it go further into the hinterland?

Randolf Weterings: 12:17

No, for, for Rotterdam, it's actually very important that we are connected to, the rest of Northwestern Europe. So if you focus on the energy that comes into the port at, at, in this point of time, on an annual basis, you see that we import 13% of the total European energy demand. And from that total amount that comes in via the port, just 5% is used in the port. So 95% of all the energy that comes in via the port of Rotterdam is used somewhere else in Northwestern Europe.

Celwin Frenzen: 12:47

Yeah.

Randolf Weterings: 12:47

And I expect that this will be the same for for hydrogen as well. So it is important that we have infrastructure in the port so that the companies that are, in the port can decarbonize and can use this hydrogen,

Randolf Weterings: 12:59

but

Randolf Weterings: 13:00

also the customers that we serve further on in the system. And, well, therefore, I'm very happy that also the Dutch plans to connect the Rotterdam, to start in Rotterdam, but to build it on further throughout, the Netherlands.

Randolf Weterings: 13:15

And

Randolf Weterings: 13:15

in the end towards Northwestern Europe with the European hydrogen backbone.

Celwin Frenzen: 13:20

Yeah.

Randolf Weterings: 13:20

I think that is something that we definitely need.

Celwin Frenzen: 13:22

Alright. And will those, is it all pipeline that's going throughout Europe or will it also be transported by ship, for example?

Randolf Weterings: 13:30

Yeah, so we see different modalities now being developed. One is pipelines. Pipelines is, of course, one of the effective and large volumes to bring to the, especially to the industrial sites there where Rotterdam is connected to. But we also see developments now on rail, on trucks, and in, inland navigation.

Celwin Frenzen: 13:50

Alright.

Randolf Weterings: 13:52

Especially for the project for the locations that are, well, I would say, less easy to connect with the pipeline Mhmm. Or less logical to connect with the pipeline. Also, on those locations, you see now all different types of, transports being developed.

Celwin Frenzen: 14:15

It's great to hear about all these different projects in Rotterdam. The world of hydrogen really is coming to life. 1 of the parties in the port of Rotterdam which has already been working with hydrogen for a long time is Air Liquide. I am joined by Diederik Leite, who has been with Air Liquide for over 30 years already. Diederik is in charge of all the hydrogen activity in all of Western Europe.

Celwin Frenzen: 14:38

He tells me everything Air Liquide does with hydrogen, which is quite a lot.

Diederik Luijten: 14:42

So what we what we do is very broad. We do, let's say, we have a long history in the in the hydrogen space, more than 60 years, delivering hydrogen already to the industry, to the space, space sector. We we tried at this stage to develop and accelerate the market development for mobility, which is heavy duty mobility. So shipping, trucking, aviation. Mhmm.

Diederik Luijten: 15:08

Making use, of course, of the already long lasting experience that we have. So we do that with market development downstream as we call it, from the production downstream. So let's say the market activation. But also upstream to develop assets. So production centers, and, you know, everything you need to distribute the product into the market.

Celwin Frenzen: 15:26

All right. And when you say space, it's for, I can assume that it's for fuel for the for the rockets?

Diederik Luijten: 15:34

Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. So we have, we've been doing the the programs of, Darian rocket, which is the European Space Program, in fact, to bring, especially GSM satellites into the into the air. Mhmm.

Diederik Luijten: 15:47

Where everyone benefits from every day. Yeah. This is one of the programs that we have done. And we have built the the fuel tanks for oxygen and for hydrogen as well as parts of the engines for, rockets Alright. To, to launch them into the air.

Celwin Frenzen: 16:00

And now in Rotterdam, you already produce hydrogen? And in in which way do you do that?

Diederik Luijten: 16:06

So today, we have, very large production assets, that are steam methane reformers. So we crack still, methane, so natural gas into CO2 and hydrogen, which is not anymore the way we would like to do it in the future. And we'll come back to that. Yeah. Which is all linked to, to a 900 kilometer kilometer pipeline where we can balance a lot and bring reliability.

Diederik Luijten: 16:31

Okay. So we have 7 7 production units like that as we speak. And then in the future, near future, and already decisions have been taken to invest, is that we invest in Portos, with partners to capture all the CO2 and to bring that CO2 in the, you know, in old gas fields. Yeah. To accelerate the transition.

Diederik Luijten: 16:50

And then, the next step would to to go into electrolysis and to invest, in large scale electrolyzers.

Celwin Frenzen: 16:56

Alright.

Diederik Luijten: 16:57

Also in the region.

Celwin Frenzen: 16:57

So now you produce gray hydrogen as we call it, and you're going to switch that to blue in the future once Portos is, up and running. Yep. And de electrolysis the green hydrogen. Is there already a plan for that or are you still, just, yeah, discovering what are the options?

Diederik Luijten: 17:14

No. We have we have a very, clear plan. So we we we call it always renewable hydrogen because the the source should be from renewable power. Alright. In fact in fact, what we, what we have, taken as a decision already is, the the launch of a 200 megawatt electrolyzer in Normandy

Celwin Frenzen: 17:32

Mhmm.

Diederik Luijten: 17:32

Which is in France. Yep. The next one that is under development is in Tenerse and then there's Maasvlakte Tucum

Celwin Frenzen: 17:37

Okay.

Diederik Luijten: 17:37

Which is the alligator in Kurthiel project

Celwin Frenzen: 17:39

Yeah.

Diederik Luijten: 17:40

Which have been funded by the, also by the European authorities and the and the Dutch authorities

Celwin Frenzen: 17:45

Yeah.

Diederik Luijten: 17:46

To help and to kick start, the project. And before before that, we have, let's say, started the largest, electrolyzer, 2 years ago in Canada, you know, worldwide. It was the largest at the time. And now in Europe, we have just launched the largest which is, in the Ruhr area. Okay.

Diederik Luijten: 18:03

So 30 megawatts and we learn every time from 20 to 30 megawatt to 200. Yeah. We learn a lot and we we build and we scale up.

Celwin Frenzen: 18:11

And you said, you're looking at using hydrogen to decarbonize transport. In what way are you doing that?

Diederik Luijten: 18:19

So, it's it's complex because, transport, there's not a lot of, business yet and not a lot of experience. But we, we have different tracks on what we do. So the, the first one that we did and this was together with the Port of Rotterdam by the way, is that we started a project like, Hytrucks where we found, the enthusiasm and also the, the good partner in the port Yeah. To, to found this project together with also the Port of Antwerp and the Port of Duisburg. And, our idea was to to create an ecosystem, a triangle between the 3 ports where we could, let's say, build around 20 to 25 heavy duty refueling stations on hydrogen for trucks Yeah.

Diederik Luijten: 18:58

With 1,000 trucks in the in the system. Mhmm. Now this the the plan was to have that up and running in 2025. And I took 4 years ago when we started it.

Celwin Frenzen: 19:07

Yes.

Diederik Luijten: 19:07

But the reality is a little bit more difficult, because we we see not a lot of technology already available in the market to do that at this stage. But it's very helpful. All the OEMs and truck manufacturers, in fact, today, are fully on the on the track of hydrogen trucks.

Celwin Frenzen: 19:22

Okay.

Diederik Luijten: 19:23

And, we see it coming now with a few years of delay because of COVID and other reasons, but, it's really coming. And we need to get prepared for it. But, this is one this is one way we we do it. And then we have very close collaboration with all the truck manufacturers and, and also the authorities to see if we can find the the right funding and so on to kick start the new economy.

Celwin Frenzen: 19:42

Yeah. And yeah. So there's a lot of trucks coming driving on hydrogen. Will that be on pure hydrogen or liquid hydrogen? What what what kind of of carrier are they looking at for transport?

Diederik Luijten: 19:51

Yeah. This will all be, pure hydrogen. So it's, it's hydrogen of, we we call it 3.7, you know, as a quality grade, but this is high quality of hydrogen Mhmm. For fuel cell technology. But, the newest technology in the in the transport sector that is worked on since, now I think, 2 or 3 years is also the combustion engine on hydrogen, which, gets also a qualification by the European Commission to be almost, qualified at, or to be almost qualified at or to be qualified as a zero emission truck despite the fact that this is a combustion engine.

Diederik Luijten: 20:24

Yeah. As it has no exhaust other than, than water and a little bit of a little bit of CO2 coming from the the grease or the the lubricants that are used in the engine. Mhmm. But it uses only hydrogen as, as a feedstock.

Celwin Frenzen: 20:35

Are trucks the only transport you're looking at to to transform with hydrogen, or are there other, modalities as well?

Diederik Luijten: 20:41

Yeah. There, so the there are many other modalities that we work on, especially the the market here in the in the, I would say, the Rhine Delta, Rhine Maersk Delta is, is shipping. And so we do a lot in terms of ship development. We have done the the first, we delivered the first technology for the, FPS ships, so future proof shipping. Okay.

Diederik Luijten: 21:04

That's already sailing on hydrogen and having commercially trips with barges

Celwin Frenzen: 21:09

Mhmm.

Diederik Luijten: 21:09

On the rivers Yep. Which is very helpful. And then we do, tugboats. We do already crew transfer vessels to the windmill parks and so on with hydrogen.

Celwin Frenzen: 21:18

Okay.

Diederik Luijten: 21:18

And it's, it's really ramping up progressively over the over the last year, I would say. It's coming,

Celwin Frenzen: 21:23

normal. So at this moment, there are already ships sailing on hydrogen through the port?

Diederik Luijten: 21:28

Absolutely. Yep.

Celwin Frenzen: 21:30

Is it also just looking at the pure hydrogen like for the trucks or are you is that in another form?

Diederik Luijten: 21:36

It's the same it's the same hydrogen. Alright. Yeah. You have different, different carriers. If we if we look into deep sea shipping, it it might be different carriers because you need even more density.

Diederik Luijten: 21:47

So ammoniac is, ammonia is is absolutely one of the roots that we also believe in,

Diederik Luijten: 21:52

that will play

Diederik Luijten: 21:52

a role in the future. But what we see

Diederik Luijten: 21:53

is that, because of the

Diederik Luijten: 21:54

characteristics of ammonia, that's where we believe in pure hydrogen Yeah. As a as an energy factor. But it is it will be hydrogen

Celwin Frenzen: 22:00

Yeah.

Diederik Luijten: 22:01

As a as an energy factor. But it is it will be a mix in the future. There's e methanol, there e fuels, and so on. What what is what is good is that, you know, at the origin of all those renewable fuels that will come, there's always hydrogen to make it. So we are specialists making hydrogen, and this is what we would like to continuously, excel in and and be, be good in.

Diederik Luijten: 22:20

And, looking at, the hydrogen you produce and will produce in the future, are is it only meant for use in transport or No. It's it's a good question. In fact in fact, the the the transport sector is today is very small. So we what we are looking into when we develop new projects is always, what we call anchor customers. So it's a big customer.

Diederik Luijten: 22:39

Can be a refinery, can be a steel plant or whatever that is needing a lot of hydrogen. And then we use side side streams, to start to develop the mobility markets. And, the mobility market has a huge ambition also, in the in the sense that there's a legislation, European legislation. We need to build, along corridors that are well defined,

Diederik Luijten: 23:01

re

Diederik Luijten: 23:01

refueling infrastructures. Mhmm. But it is it is difficult to make a business case directly from scratch with the mobility sector. So it's it's about finding the big volumes and serving on that and then develop the market for mobility.

Celwin Frenzen: 23:16

Looking at the future, what is what are your views on the future in terms of hydrogen? Where do you think it will end up in?

Diederik Luijten: 23:22

Here in in Rotterdam, it's a very specific, region, I would say. But, overall, we, in in in everything that we see, read, and where we participate is that roughly, 22% of the worldwide energy demand will come from hydrogen in 2050. So that is a huge portion.

Celwin Frenzen: 23:40

Mhmm.

Diederik Luijten: 23:41

And half of that, will go to the mobility sector. Meaning that, there's a lot of market to be developed and, in Rotterdam it's very specific as it is a landing point also for all the, Hinterland or the the rural area. In fact, we're, in Germany, where there's a lot of need also for product, which will pass through the harbors in Western Europe. And looking into the, you know, our discussions with the port and the authorities and, everyone that is looking into this, roughly 15% probably will be produced locally, and then 85 percent will be, coming through import Yeah. In all kind of carriers.

Diederik Luijten: 24:18

But there's a lot of, pass through, let's say, through the harbors to, to other regions.

Celwin Frenzen: 24:27

A lot is already happening in the port of Rotterdam when it comes to hydrogen, and things are moving quite fast. But does Randolf think we're moving fast enough?

Randolf Weterings: 24:36

Well, I would say for energy transition, it's never going fast enough. Mhmm. So, we need to speed up, every time. Although I think with hydrogen, we have a big ambition, which is already quite a challenge to to to realize that in the time that we have planned for it. Mhmm.

Randolf Weterings: 24:56

So I I wish we could go faster, but it's simply impossible.

Celwin Frenzen: 25:02

Sometimes you're limited by the technology, I I can imagine, with such a big scale up.

Randolf Weterings: 25:07

Correct.

Celwin Frenzen: 25:07

Correct. Is there anything you would like to add yourself?

Randolf Weterings: 25:11

Yeah. Well, for me, this is, if I, if I look back to the, the last year, I would say we really start constructing now. So you see that, the plans that we had, not only the Port of Rotterdam, but throughout the whole world, is becoming, or is being constructed, so it's materializing it. And I would say it's not talking about hydrogen anymore. It's now really doing it and getting everything into the ground.

Randolf Weterings: 25:41

And I would say next year, what I expect is that the basis of the infrastructure is there. So I expect that more and more projects will come on on stream.

Celwin Frenzen: 25:53

In the next head of hydrogen.

Rene van der Meer: 25:54

It is about a 1 megawatt electrolyzer which we put on on one of our offshore facilities. And the nice thing of this platform is when you're physically on the platform, you actually see 3 energy systems coming together.

Celwin Frenzen: 26:11

Thank you for listening to Hello Hydrogen. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the podcast wherever you find your podcasts. For more information on this podcast or hydrogen in the port of Rotterdam, take a look at port of Rotterdam.com/hydrogen.