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NET Society is unraveling the latest in digital art, crypto, AI, and tech. Join us for fresh insights and bold perspectives as we tap into wild, thought-provoking conversations. By: Derek Edwards (glitch marfa / collab+currency), Chris Furlong (starholder, LAO + Flamingo DAO), and Aaaron Wright & Priyanka Desai (Tribute Labs)
00;00;00;00 - 00;00;18;15
Aaron
Pri did you just tell me that Kanye wants to launch a coin?
00;00;18;17 - 00;00;44;10
Pri
I don't know if he actually wants to launch a coin, but if you have noticed, he's been active on Twitter again, and there is some tweet asking about how tokens actually worked. And there's, like, a bunch of people that responded, and now there's like some carries. Yeah, there's like a poly market, you know, prediction market. On whether or not Connor will create it.
00;00;44;11 - 00;00;46;02
Aaron
What's that?
00;00;46;04 - 00;00;52;09
Pri
Let me check. Actually, I haven't like I think I saw a screenshot of it, so I haven't actually checked it myself. Let me see.
00;00;52;09 - 00;00;56;24
Aaron
That's like, honestly, one of the most bullish things I've heard in a long time. I feel like he's always out of the curve.
00;00;56;25 - 00;01;08;04
Aaron
Yeah. Get out of here. This is like the tail end of the celebrity extraction cycle. Kanye is just getting in there before, like all the suckers are. Suck out the soul.
00;01;08;06 - 00;01;12;20
Aaron
Suck out the soul. Yeah, probably. And then convert it to Ethan. Bitcoin. Chris.
00;01;12;23 - 00;01;18;21
Aaron
I mean no, if it was the pumped out fund who then converts it to USD.
00;01;18;23 - 00;01;19;11
Aaron
Oh man.
00;01;19;14 - 00;01;23;18
Pri
Correct. So by the way, just the poly market poll is 18% chance right now.
00;01;23;19 - 00;01;26;16
Aaron
Okay. That that's that's material but not like.
00;01;26;16 - 00;01;28;13
Pri
$15,000 in volume though.
00;01;28;13 - 00;01;34;02
Aaron
So yeah. Yeah that's interesting. Who else is going to do celebrity coins?
00;01;34;05 - 00;01;35;25
Aaron
Who cares?
00;01;35;28 - 00;01;41;27
Pri
I know, I kind of agree. Just look up and then down. It's just it's outside of the Trump token. That's all it is.
00;01;41;29 - 00;01;52;25
Aaron
The Trump token has has held pretty strong. It is pretty interesting. It's one of the few assets that actually it hasn't been drawn down over the past past week.
00;01;52;28 - 00;01;54;12
Aaron
Yeah that's who has utility.
00;01;54;20 - 00;01;56;02
Aaron
What's the utility.
00;01;56;05 - 00;01;57;13
Aaron
Driving the president?
00;01;57;16 - 00;01;58;24
Aaron
Oh I see.
00;01;58;26 - 00;02;03;24
Aaron
I'm sorry I meant alignment. My bad, my bad alignment.
00;02;03;27 - 00;02;05;18
Aaron
Chris you're coming out swinging today, man.
00;02;05;21 - 00;02;09;14
Aaron
We just got to call this shit bullshit at this point. Like, come on.
00;02;09;17 - 00;02;17;22
Aaron
You know you're not going to buy the the, ETF, the Trump token ETF. Oh, is that that news? Do you guys catch that?
00;02;17;25 - 00;02;23;07
Pri
Oh yeah. Yeah I was like it's going to be eath and other tokens. Or was it Solana and other tokens.
00;02;23;12 - 00;02;31;05
Aaron
It was like Trump branded like it was like the Trump team putting together media. Yeah. The Trump media, one that was kind of wild.
00;02;31;08 - 00;02;31;18
Pri
It was.
00;02;31;18 - 00;02;32;16
Aaron
Just.
00;02;32;18 - 00;02;34;13
Pri
Bitcoin plus ETF.
00;02;34;16 - 00;02;39;04
Aaron
Vertically integrated grifting. Yeah. All levels of the grift stack.
00;02;39;06 - 00;02;46;08
Aaron
You got the meme coin. What else you need. You need to layer one layer to there. Chris. Or what's what's the grips the grips tech.
00;02;46;10 - 00;03;10;05
Aaron
Yeah. What is the grip stack. Well I mean look, top of the funnel is the ability to completely dominate the attention cycle on a whim at will. 24 seven. And so they got that covered from there. You need a vehicle. So you got a meme coin, and you got to package your vehicle in a institutionally acceptable manner with just enough veneer, aka a basket of other coins to pass the stink test.
00;03;10;08 - 00;03;17;07
Aaron
I mean, I really don't know if you want to go any further than that. You know, keep your grift, Lane. Like, why do you want to have, like, Trump validators?
00;03;17;13 - 00;03;21;01
Aaron
There's got to be some more stuff we can do there to add to the grift stack.
00;03;21;03 - 00;03;22;08
Pri
The crypto stack.
00;03;22;10 - 00;03;24;05
Aaron
I mean, an 11.
00;03;24;07 - 00;03;25;16
Aaron
Oh, wow.
00;03;25;19 - 00;03;28;04
Pri
Yeah, you definitely need an agent with a meme coin.
00;03;28;06 - 00;03;38;27
Aaron
I don't know if there was like a Trump eye agent. That'd be kind of like tweeting online. Maybe. That'd be funny. I guess he just does that naturally himself or in his team do that.
00;03;38;29 - 00;03;41;26
Aaron
Yeah. I mean would he even want to compete with himself like that?
00;03;41;29 - 00;03;44;16
Aaron
Right. That would dilute his brand a little bit too much.
00;03;44;19 - 00;03;52;00
Pri
I'm surprised no one has like to create an alarm of all of his tweets, though, from Truth Social and Twitter, and just created like a Trump bot.
00;03;52;03 - 00;03;57;08
Aaron
Trump had good branding. Sounds like a good weekend project for, for somebody.
00;03;57;14 - 00;04;00;24
Aaron
The DJ to say that or is that just a TV?
00;04;00;26 - 00;04;18;08
Aaron
Drone? Build your own grift stack. So you think we're at that part of the cycle, Chris? I don't know. I like I, I don't I still feel like the cycle really hasn't started, but I know I'm like, I have a minority position there, but it still doesn't feel like psychically, to me, this feels like end of, like end of a cycle.
00;04;18;11 - 00;04;42;00
Aaron
But to me it's like end of the the FDX bear. I don't know, it feels like like institutional sentiment is pretty high. Like the I mean, we've seen some of the tech being built, and I feel like a lot of that stuff's going to come out of wraps pretty soon, which is encouraging. I don't know, I feel like there's like green shoots of innovation, which are usually the beginnings of like a bull cycle instead of the end.
00;04;42;03 - 00;04;42;28
Aaron
The other way around.
00;04;43;03 - 00;05;22;26
Aaron
I mean, I think we're we're now operating in multiple levels here, and I think retail has tried and tried and tried and tried again to initiate a cycle, and they're unsuccessful in it. I do feel that there's an institutional cycle that is certainly brewing and forming. I mean, it's just hard to look at the, the news, the Ondo summit, you know, the the clearing of the regulatory pass, Blackrock buying, etc., etc. and not see it as anything other than an entry into this space.
00;05;22;27 - 00;05;49;02
Aaron
You know, that pending you know how how far on the spectrum you want to go here, you know, could also just be like a coordinated capital strike that really is is designed to be a co-opt and, you know, just bleed retail out, get your operations, your platforms, your protocols, everything you need to do in order. And then, you know, jump in with both feet.
00;05;49;04 - 00;06;12;02
Aaron
Yeah. I mean, I think that that feels right. And I mean, I think you can imagine like, next year or even over the next couple years where, like, every single bank has like a stablecoin, like every payment provider, every bank, like, they're all kind of rolling out with stablecoins and all these other bits. And I just have a hard time not seeing that kind of kick off like a pretty big bull cycle.
00;06;12;09 - 00;06;29;05
Aaron
This kind of reminds me, just like the drawdown before, we all kind of got snowed under by Covid, so I don't know. And that was kind of the beginning of the cycle, more than the end of one. I just feel like people expect it to be for years and post like FTX. It just felt worse than the previous one.
00;06;29;05 - 00;06;51;21
Aaron
So it wouldn't be surprising that it took like a little bit longer to kind of shake that off. And everything's been just so PvP. There's so many tokens like out in the market, there's no new capital coming in. Whether it's retail, institutional capital's not great. Looking at Noncore core assets at this point, it just feels like we're at the beginning, not at the end of something, at least to me.
00;06;51;23 - 00;07;15;09
Pri
The juxtaposition of what's happening right now is pretty interesting to me because like on one hand, you know, the institutional interest, like I was just kind of looking through that condo summit that happened this week. You had like major, you know, people like Dtcc and a lot of these clearinghouses and other institutions coming in. Like you guys noted, a lot of the banking institutions are excited about stablecoins and excited about clear regs.
00;07;15;09 - 00;07;41;05
Pri
And, you know, David Sachs coming on this week, noting that the last, SEC administration was like a little bit oppressive. And they're going to try to change things and give clear guidance, whatever. But then on the other hand, it's like the people who are actors in the system, you know, on the timeline, they feel kind of disillusioned right now and a little bit, you know, to your point, like it feels very PvP and like the alts feel cooked and whatever.
00;07;41;06 - 00;08;00;25
Pri
It's it's wild to me that like, both things are happening at once. Like it's kind of a weird head fake where I'm like, where are we in the cycle where you have like those who are engaged on, like the trading collector side getting a little bit burned out, and then you have like institutions who could not be more excited.
00;08;00;25 - 00;08;08;08
Pri
And you have like a regulatory body that's like interested in regulating this stuff. It's just like weird. I don't know how to parse it honestly.
00;08;08;10 - 00;08;13;12
Aaron
It's the difference between people who can afford time and people who cannot afford time.
00;08;13;14 - 00;08;21;13
Aaron
What do you mean, Chris? And I'm also curious, just what were the highlights from the Ondo conference? Was it well attended? I saw like a couple things.
00;08;21;13 - 00;08;51;21
Pri
Yeah, I feel like it was it was like pretty well I mean it looked well done. I mean again you know, it's one of those ones where it's like a lot of the pics and stuff I saw on LinkedIn, weirdly, and like, you know, I saw some of it on, Twitter, but it looked pretty, pretty good. I mean, they had like a great lineup and good speakers, you know, Wellington management, Wisdom Tree, Google Cloud, like that whole crew kind of showed up that like the people that you don't necessarily expect to see at your normal like crypto conference.
00;08;51;23 - 00;08;57;29
Aaron
Maybe that's the right way to think about it. Like this cycle isn't crypto Twitter cycle, it's LinkedIn cycle.
00;08;58;02 - 00;08;59;03
Pri
Maybe.
00;08;59;05 - 00;09;09;00
Aaron
But Chris, what did you mean by, these are people that have, you know, time that they can afford. They can just wait, like in the in the grass, ready to pounce.
00;09;09;02 - 00;09;41;08
Aaron
My, my interpretation of retail at the moment is they're up against a wall and they're forced to try to beat eath and BTC. And so to me that says, okay, the environment is not good. It is continually like, you know, we're a couple of years into like this set of false starts. Very few things have stuck. The material conditions haven't changed and yet they keep going back to the well.
00;09;41;08 - 00;10;07;24
Aaron
They keep trying to force this and to me, like this most recent level of capitulation, you know, when the AI agent made a meltdown, we could almost call it like the post millennial world. There's there finally seems to be a dawning awareness or just an utter exhaustion. I mean, sentiment on crypto. Twitter has been really bad. You know, the last couple weeks.
00;10;07;27 - 00;10;38;03
Aaron
There's a lot of confusion out there, but I don't think anything has changed. I mean, you know, I feel like April of May of last year was really when I stopped, you know, playing alts and even going into last year, I was going to be very judicious. You know, I put a stack aside and said, okay, you know, high conviction, 3 to 5 plays, you know, dole it out every couple of months.
00;10;38;08 - 00;11;09;22
Aaron
Take your time about this. I only deployed into two things. And before I really just said, you know what, screw this. And the reasons I outlined at the time, right. Like there's no liquidity in the system. The token unlocks are coming fast and furious. The funding model of all this infrastructure is basically cooked because there's no users. There's no activity to to justify.
00;11;09;25 - 00;11;28;24
Aaron
None of that's changed. And from my point of view, the only real, real thing has changed has been a broader recognition of this is what the environment actually is. And, you know, maybe it's time to, pack it away and bide my time.
00;11;28;26 - 00;11;48;18
Aaron
Yeah. But I mean, sometimes that's the right, right call to Chris, right? Like, sometimes you do just want to wait. Like, we'll see kind of what the early I think the early signals and signs are. I don't know, it just feels like even, it, I do think that, like, big token overhang is, is a concern. There's so many tokens coming to market.
00;11;48;18 - 00;12;05;23
Aaron
I feel like even with the regulatory clarity, that's only going to get worse, right? Like, everybody and their mother, you know, is going to probably try to release a token over the next couple of years so that that, like, supply side is only going to grow. I guess the question is, is that retail demand is an institutional demand.
00;12;05;27 - 00;12;13;18
Aaron
Institutional demand lead to retail demand. I don't know if yeah, it's hard to kind of tease that out.
00;12;13;20 - 00;12;22;16
Aaron
Do you share something in our discord? Remind remind us of the numbers is at 36 billion and token unlocks this year 700 million a month or what was the numbers?
00;12;22;19 - 00;12;37;26
Aaron
Yeah, it was it was pretty. It was pretty, like eye watering. Let me pull that up real quick. But this is over the next 12 months, $36 billion worth of coins will be unlocked at $700 million on average every week. Every.
00;12;37;26 - 00;12;38;15
Aaron
Week.
00;12;38;17 - 00;12;58;12
Aaron
Yeah. So just a little bit underneath that, there's probably like about 30 that people would consider to be like notable or well-established projects. I mean, we just saw one, I guess, get added into that mix with Bear Chain this week. And I know some folks are excited about it. I've had a hard time kind of wrap my head around it.
00;12;58;14 - 00;13;16;03
Aaron
Yeah. I mean, I just I just think that that supplies are just going to grow and grow and grow, whether it's like meme tokens, whether it's, you know, more, established projects, it's just going to be a lot. It's kind of like we're entering into this phase of like hyper tokenization in different ways.
00;13;16;06 - 00;13;24;02
Aaron
I mean, we've been in it. It's accelerating. I mean, God, what's going to happen when 20 plus percent of Solana unlocks in March.
00;13;24;05 - 00;13;26;23
Aaron
The price of ether will go up and Bitcoin.
00;13;26;26 - 00;13;56;12
Aaron
It'd be nice. One maybe positive out of all this is people will start leveling up their education and understanding of how this world works, right? Like your portfolio, it doesn't matter. You know market caps don't matter. What matters is the liquidity sitting under a coin and you know, people are like living in the in these worlds where you can have like 10 to 1 ratio between market caps and liquidity.
00;13;56;14 - 00;14;29;02
Aaron
And there's just no reality there. And so we do need like a more sophisticated level of understanding on on the retail side, meanwhile, you know, these institutional folks waiting in the wings, they have a totally different understanding of the world, right? Like a they can see through bullshit because that's their job for a living, be they're drawing a paycheck and they're being measured against performance goals within their organization, not on their ability to beat a market.
00;14;29;04 - 00;14;54;10
Aaron
I could see a world where when, you know, this co-opt does kick into place. They're very judicious about their use of tokens because they don't necessarily need them. I mean, I could see, quote unquote, the next wave of innovation entirely sidestepping much of what's in, you know, your everyday crypto economic stack.
00;14;54;12 - 00;14;57;07
Aaron
What do you mean by that, Chris? How do you see that playing out?
00;14;57;09 - 00;15;01;04
Aaron
Well, I mean, is this Blackrock need a token.
00;15;01;06 - 00;15;23;00
Aaron
Now maybe I mean some of their funds I mean I'm assuming that you know they're more traditional vehicles. I think they'd love to see markets for their their funds right. I mean how many of those funds maybe have like a longer duration. They've got investors at one some degree of liquidity. I think they'd kind of welcome that if they had, the ability to do it and some reasonable rules.
00;15;23;00 - 00;15;24;08
Aaron
Rules of the road.
00;15;24;11 - 00;15;40;22
Pri
Who, who are they trying to attract by tokenizing those funds? Oh, is it crypto native users who are well capitalized or is it other just people in them? Like, that's the part where I'm still like, who? Who are the buyers of like a Blackrock tokenized fund?
00;15;40;24 - 00;15;53;17
Aaron
I think, you know, like for some of these vehicles around more traditional, investment vehicles, if you could buy them in like bite sized bits, I think there'd be a lot of demand for it. Like, I'd be kind of curious about them. To be frank.
00;15;53;19 - 00;16;04;08
Aaron
Those pools are probably going to be accredited, whitelisted curated pools, though, because, I mean, you're tokenizing private or private securities.
00;16;04;10 - 00;16;27;24
Aaron
Yeah. But I think it's kind of the same framing, you know, if you have like a global 24 seven market and you have X number of people that can satisfy those requirements across the globe, they become really big. But when they're kind of quarantined to like a specific country or specific nation, they're just not big enough. And when the friction of like setting it up is really high, they just don't seem to work.
00;16;27;24 - 00;16;53;20
Aaron
But that's where I think kind of crypto networks when if if the rules of the road are kind of clear, if there's a system that makes it easy to do that and whatever gatekeeping or like accreditation requirements are kind of provided, you just it's a much better market. And then that's, that's useful for kind of everybody. But like I think there's a lot of like pins that need to fall down for that to happen or steps that need to be taken.
00;16;53;22 - 00;17;14;04
Aaron
But I have to imagine that they would welcome it. And I think it's the same thing on the venture side. Right. Like, I'm sure LPs in Venture Private equity vehicles, you know, venture capital funds would welcome the same thing, especially especially if they're, you know, kind of web2 type projects are not in a position to go public yet, but they're still good businesses.
00;17;14;04 - 00;17;24;17
Aaron
Like, I think there's a lot of there's a lot of companies that fall on that, that bucket too. Chris. So I do think that there is some some demand on the like institutional side for, for tokens.
00;17;24;19 - 00;17;31;27
Aaron
There's some demand. But like those tokens aren't going to behave the same way as, you know, other tokens are going to behave.
00;17;31;29 - 00;17;36;04
Aaron
Yeah. Than like the the Larry meme coin. What would behave differently. Right.
00;17;36;06 - 00;17;55;24
Aaron
I don't know, like a private credit market is not going to need an LP on Uniswap. I mean, you know, maybe it will, but like a lot of these things won't need that because that will still exist like in a USD cash level with more minimal back offices. Perhaps.
00;17;55;26 - 00;18;15;10
Aaron
Yeah, but I do think they kind of will, because if you look at like where uni is going with like uni V for like you can set up a pool, you know, to trade to assets and then even the capital that's in that pool can then interact with other DeFi primitives. That's pretty attractive. Right. So like you, you can really make your capital hyper efficient there.
00;18;15;17 - 00;18;43;18
Aaron
So I, I, I hear you, but at the same time, like, I could see over time even there like people wanting that like kind of advanced composability, capital efficiency, low fees, etc. of, you know, traditional DeFi markets. And I think that that's kind of what they're kind of moving towards. And I also think they want faster settlement. And so to the extent that they can get that with the near, you know, instantaneous settlement you get on Ethereum, I could see them.
00;18;43;20 - 00;18;46;09
Aaron
I can see that being pretty attractive to to folks.
00;18;46;11 - 00;18;47;14
Aaron
Yeah. No, I get it.
00;18;47;22 - 00;18;50;05
Aaron
Yeah. I just became rwa, I didn't I.
00;18;50;07 - 00;18;51;20
Pri
You or oh.
00;18;51;20 - 00;18;53;01
Aaron
God damn it.
00;18;53;03 - 00;18;56;06
Aaron
Welcome to RWA geidam.
00;18;56;09 - 00;18;57;27
Aaron
Oh, man. Yeah.
00;18;58;02 - 00;18;58;21
Pri
Yeah, sure.
00;18;58;27 - 00;18;59;14
Aaron
I mean, I did.
00;18;59;14 - 00;19;05;04
Aaron
See you're going to have to move to Brooklyn Heights. No. Get yourself out.
00;19;05;06 - 00;19;05;20
Aaron
No.
00;19;05;27 - 00;19;15;14
Aaron
I'm sorry, dude. I mean, when are you going to Aspen? This year. You've got that right. Are you going for skiing, or are you going for food and wine?
00;19;15;16 - 00;19;16;15
Aaron
I can't do this.
00;19;16;18 - 00;19;19;27
Pri
I hear hotel room is lovely.
00;19;20;00 - 00;19;24;24
Aaron
I'm sorry. I can cancel that trip to Denver. You've got. You've got new priorities in life.
00;19;24;27 - 00;19;32;27
Aaron
I do, I do. It's just it's it's only thinking about always. Can I add one other fact? Because I guess I'm going to run RWA corner.
00;19;32;29 - 00;19;34;16
Pri
Yeah. You're the guy.
00;19;34;19 - 00;19;42;07
Aaron
I just saw that, stablecoins may hit $1 trillion this year if it keeps up their growth rates. That's kind of wild.
00;19;42;14 - 00;19;43;04
Pri
That's about.
00;19;43;04 - 00;19;43;18
Aaron
It.
00;19;43;20 - 00;19;44;23
Aaron
What do they out right now?
00;19;44;28 - 00;19;46;09
Aaron
Like 250.
00;19;46;09 - 00;19;49;09
Aaron
Billion? Okay. Yeah. How much? That's on Tron.
00;19;49;17 - 00;19;53;09
Aaron
Oh that is the only it's the only place to to place it.
00;19;53;14 - 00;19;57;10
Aaron
Like 80% of stablecoins are just circulating around Tanzania right now.
00;19;57;18 - 00;20;07;27
Aaron
I hope not. It is like somewhat no, no, it is a sizable right. Like, you'd think that that that would flow into or have some use case in DeFi to.
00;20;08;00 - 00;20;28;09
Pri
I guess just I mean, you know, talking about the RWA and the institutional interest, like, I get why they're excited and, you know, it's finally giving them the ability to enter into the space for all the reasons that you mentioned. But like, it doesn't change the fact that, like, the retail market is like pretty pretty much in the dumps at the moment.
00;20;28;12 - 00;20;54;25
Pri
I'm wondering like when that shifts, like when the actions of like the professional investor types are, like actually materialized or does it or is it more that retail needs to just get so wrecked to realize, like buying all these tokens doesn't actually make sense? And to your point, like, you know, having it just the time to hold and observing from afar is the right move.
00;20;54;25 - 00;21;17;25
Pri
And that creates this incentive for projects and other meme coins to not launch. And you have a like more healthy ecosystem. Like, does it have to just get so acceleration esque that that's when you know the market, it will correct itself? Or do we feel like that time will never come? Because at the end of the day, the network is permissionless and there's always going to be that PvP energy.
00;21;17;27 - 00;21;19;01
Pri
In some subsector.
00;21;19;02 - 00;21;22;22
Aaron
You would think that people would wise up, but I don't have confidence there.
00;21;22;24 - 00;21;54;23
Aaron
I can see multiple paths forward here. One is crypto starts changing its tactics and gets smarter about how it does its business. Two things I've been thinking around that like one is more federated networks that employ protocol own liquidity. So for example, I'll an L2 does it you know whatever it's raises put a puts a significant portion of that against eath.
00;21;54;25 - 00;22;19;25
Aaron
If it's, you know an evil and you know so that it can control its own liquidity, it then turn or turns around, issues its own token, and actually curates instead of being a chain, it considers, considers itself an app ecosystem. And, you know, it doesn't let everyone off the street in picks 20 projects then issue, you know, grants its coin to those projects.
00;22;19;28 - 00;22;46;22
Aaron
Those projects LP their coin against the L2 so that you have this like kind of trust and chain of liquidity bolstering your tokens so that when those 20 tokens sitting on the L2 issue their own tokens right, their LP is against the L2, the L2 is against the like, there's actually a real chain of money there. And you get some some surety and you start working together.
00;22;46;24 - 00;23;12;24
Aaron
That's one approach like this. Space needs strength in numbers. It need to start working together instead of every man for himself, every billion Erc20 supply, you know, with like 18 month vests and like that, that clearly isn't working. You need new tactics. So that's one way this could could go is crypto actually starts doing the hard things. It takes longer time frames.
00;23;12;27 - 00;23;51;11
Aaron
I would call that like the crypto native approach to fixing yourselves the other way is the co-opt. And look, I came out of a world where channel partnerships and distributions ruled the roost, and it was a chain of money as well, except that money went from the cell phone makers. I mean, sorry, the carriers, right, who are getting 100 bucks, 150 bucks a month from millions of subscribers to the device manufacturers, those all those devices, all those iPhones are heavily subsidized by the carriers, aka your phone bill.
00;23;51;13 - 00;24;10;14
Aaron
What do they turn around and do? Create app ecosystems fund to help ecosystems advertise app ecosystems. And they told retail right. That's how channel partnership works. We've never had any channel marketing in crypto because, you know, regulatory Wild West.
00;24;10;17 - 00;24;27;08
Aaron
Isn't that kind of base. Chris. Like the altcoins are. They aren't that kind of like channel. I think that's a really interesting point. But isn't that kind of what's happening on the L2 is like the Coinbase is marketing base. There's all these like apps that are being built in it, and it's kind of like a channel for eath in a weird way.
00;24;27;10 - 00;24;54;29
Aaron
Yeah. They're the only one who I could kind of apply a channel marketing model to, and they're in early days of it. And so we don't really understand the effectiveness of it. Right. But if Facebook starts doing this or someone with a large installed base starts pushing this on people, then you can start seeing the channel marketing as a way that retailer comes back in and revives that.
00;24;54;29 - 00;25;20;19
Aaron
However, I think may have a very, very different profile. It may be less speculative. It I don't know, it's it's hard to say. Right. But like generally major consumer products don't want their users making money off of them. Right. Like the relationships the other way around. You go work a job somewhere, a portion of your disposable income then goes to Mark Zuckerberg.
00;25;20;22 - 00;25;26;09
Aaron
And so like that culture and that mindset is radically different than a crypto native approach.
00;25;26;12 - 00;25;47;02
Aaron
Yeah. And I guess then the questions like how many? I guess another way that would happen is if all the social media platforms have a stablecoin and an L2 two, right, like that would be other channels opening up. Maybe that's how it develops. And then like every bank does the same thing. Would you be shocked if it was like a JPM chain or something like that?
00;25;47;08 - 00;25;49;13
Pri
Weren't they even working on that a while ago?
00;25;49;16 - 00;25;53;04
Aaron
Yeah, I think that I mean, I think in different ways they've been thinking about it.
00;25;53;06 - 00;25;55;08
Pri
Like I'm making that up. Yeah. Yeah, I think they were.
00;25;55;15 - 00;26;08;29
Aaron
I can't wait until Wells Fargo allows me $900 a day in stablecoin transfers, and then signs me up for a DeFi insurance product without my permission. Leaves? Who leaves?
00;26;09;01 - 00;26;11;11
Aaron
The world is going to be interesting.
00;26;11;13 - 00;26;12;00
Pri
It will.
00;26;12;00 - 00;26;35;27
Aaron
But I kind of feel like that happens. Like if, you know, like I've heard a couple people say this, like in passing, that they really do believe that, like, every bank is going to like have a stablecoin like Will. They also all have old twos like probably. Right. Like why wouldn't they like building the JPM ecosystem? I mean, I may not want to do that, but you can imagine real men wanting to do that.
00;26;36;00 - 00;26;41;03
Aaron
And then I guess the media companies would do the same thing. Like would we get like a, a Spotify chain or something like that?
00;26;41;06 - 00;27;01;11
Pri
I still don't fully understand the reason for that. I mean, I guess I do, but but it feels very like intro verse, internet like I guess people have always said that. And again, this word is cringe. But like the concentric circles where you have like base layer eath and then there's just like circles and layers on top, but urs and I still don't fully conceptualize like why there needs to be so many.
00;27;01;11 - 00;27;05;15
Pri
Like, why does every why would every bank need to do that? Like, why do you think like.
00;27;05;16 - 00;27;27;20
Aaron
I think the the Spotify example could be a good one to like put on like let's say you're Spotify, right? Like you have a bunch of fans that love to collect stuff. You already cross-selling like merch for the the bands and musicians and groups that are part of your platform. You can imagine them expanding their revenue opportunities by you deposit 100 bucks into into Spotify.
00;27;27;20 - 00;27;39;20
Aaron
You get like a Spotify stablecoin. It's one click checkout to get your favorite band t shirt. Maybe get like a collectible related to an album release, like All that Jazz. I feel like some people get geeked on that.
00;27;39;22 - 00;27;42;01
Pri
I guess I'm just like you. Why couldn't you do that on me?
00;27;42;01 - 00;27;44;12
Aaron
Not because you can lower the fees.
00;27;44;12 - 00;27;45;27
Pri
Cause it's the fees. Okay.
00;27;45;27 - 00;28;03;04
Aaron
Yeah. I mean, they become like, pretty small at that point, and you can probably control the experience a little bit more. The onboarding, make it a little bit easier for the user to, to play around in that ecosystem. You still like on your customer? I guess that's why the channel stuff worked pretty well. Chris, with the telecom, everybody had like a shot to other user.
00;28;03;06 - 00;28;27;26
Aaron
Everyone had a shot. Ultimately, only two people ended up owning the user, right? Android and iOS. I don't think you can go super, super far and wide. That doesn't mean everyone won't try, but at a certain point, right? Like windows couldn't couldn't enter the mobile OS world, Metro was an amazing mobile OS. Maybe one of my favorites of the 20 tens.
00;28;27;26 - 00;28;57;05
Aaron
The problem was they never had any apps and they couldn't attract app development, and so they withered and died and so I'm less worried about JPM chain competing with Wachovia Bank chain, although I think they'll all certainly give it an honest go because, you know, the, incentive is there. I think you'll end up with like a rather limited range of these things because they're also competing with, you know, Decentral lies lose.
00;28;57;09 - 00;29;00;08
Aaron
Yeah. And main nets. And I could see it.
00;29;00;08 - 00;29;20;02
Aaron
Working like in pretty broad verticals. Chris. Like, could you imagine like as like even like a New York City L2. That'd be pretty wild. But like, you get your city coins, bison, hot dogs, you know, discounted tickets to museums. You can imagine, like a whole whole host of activity that can happen on a like a city coin or could work pretty well.
00;29;20;05 - 00;29;21;15
Aaron
Other businesses could hop on it.
00;29;21;22 - 00;29;36;20
Aaron
You know, I do use, you know, New York state infrastructure for plenty of plenty of things. We're just talking about, like the government here. And those services are pretty damn janky to begin with. So. Right. You know, maybe 25 years from now.
00;29;36;26 - 00;29;48;26
Aaron
Yeah. But I mean, you're already hearing some folks saying they want to do it at the federal level, like put some, some stuff on chain, which is wild. Who knows if that happens, but let's assume it does. Like, why wouldn't every municipality do the same thing.
00;29;48;29 - 00;29;56;16
Aaron
If curser gets good enough? If there are enough, like software devs who go to hold their nose and, work for City Hall? Sure.
00;29;56;19 - 00;29;58;02
Aaron
Yeah, that'd be great.
00;29;58;05 - 00;30;01;11
Derek
I see it as an I'll just apologize, guys. It's kind of been a.
00;30;01;11 - 00;30;01;29
Aaron
Dead end.
00;30;02;02 - 00;30;16;11
Derek
For me. How are you guys? I mean, I know. Listen, I've been listening to the convo. It's been great. I've been a little scattered with with back office and work stuff, but I'm jumping in here because the the combo was too good. So Aaron, just so I, I have some kind of like a vision on what you're describing here.
00;30;16;13 - 00;30;41;14
Derek
Are you saying and I kind of agree with that. But just to play the thought experiment out that, that every municipality, planet Earth will have like a, a blockchain, a stablecoin, a reward system, and we'll interact with it in, in, in kind of ways that an increase efficiency in terms of how that region operates and get benefits back for for riding the A train instead of the B train.
00;30;41;14 - 00;30;44;05
Derek
And, how are you kind of envisioning this a bit?
00;30;44;08 - 00;31;14;12
Aaron
I don't know, I mean, I don't think it's likely right now, but you could see it, right? Like you could imagine like the I don't think it'd work for smaller municipalities, but really, really big ones. Sure. Right. Like L.A. or New York, like, they really are networks of capital. They need those benefits too. And maybe there's even, like a New York meme token on top and an LA one, so I could I could pick them up or, you know, you get like a sentiment asset on top to like, I know it sounds a little bit wild, but it's possible like it's not outside the realm of possibility.
00;31;14;12 - 00;31;20;22
Aaron
I mean, I definitely would short the LA one a little bit, but pretty long. The New York one. But you tell me.
00;31;20;25 - 00;31;42;27
Derek
I think here I'd probably short life for the foreseeable future, but, Oh, no, but what I but what I will say is, I think there's something really interesting. I think the back end of that equation is like putting putting taxable revenue on chain. And so like, what if there was I mean, or maybe it's California based and maybe then it filters down to, to cities based on, on economic weight.
00;31;42;29 - 00;32;03;07
Derek
Who knows. But just for the sake of like playing this experiment out because I think it's fun. Imagine if all state taxes, were paid on chain. They sat in a pool that were viewable by everyone. And how those taxes got filtered out or obviously, like voted by its citizens who lived within the geographic kind of confines of that region.
00;32;03;10 - 00;32;22;26
Derek
There was also a pool from that taxable revenue that spun out incentives to people who you know, just like any DeFi protocol, wants to incentivize some part of their marketplace or some job to be done on the protocol. Imagine if California was like, we want more people to build in LA, and we're going to spin out some bounties.
00;32;22;26 - 00;32;34;06
Derek
Exactly. That feels right to me. Like, I feel like obviously there's a lot of hurdles to cross, and there's a lot of dependencies I just described, but that feels like a more efficient way of how resources should be allocated at the regional level.
00;32;34;08 - 00;32;51;18
Aaron
You could do real time taxes too, which I know would get everybody super excited screaming taxes, baby, why don't you say that first? Yeah, let's stream some taxes. I mean, the G-Men would probably like that, but, I don't know if the population would, but, I mean, you could imagine a whole bunch of efficiencies or even if it's at the state level.
00;32;51;20 - 00;33;03;22
Aaron
Derek. Right. Like a driver's license, saying all the identity stuff, they kind of own that. So they could they could continue to kind of own their customer in that regard. And I'd imagine that would be a pretty big channel.
00;33;03;24 - 00;33;36;01
Derek
I think that's right. I think just like, you know, one thing that one of the byproducts of this technology where like, you can have programable contracts and everything is trustless and trust minimized, and you can have micropayments down as fractional as you'd like of a penny. One of the second order effects of that is you can like start to kind of create these payloads or bounties for for jobs to be done in ways that just like we cannot get anywhere close to with our current infrastructure in the way it works, at like the state and federal level and like, that's that's really interesting, right?
00;33;36;01 - 00;33;38;22
Derek
Like that opens up a whole service area to how.
00;33;38;23 - 00;33;41;16
Aaron
Should we go further property registries, same thing.
00;33;41;22 - 00;33;42;08
Derek
Yeah, 100.
00;33;42;08 - 00;33;48;24
Aaron
Percent would all go on chain. Right. So you're starting to see the case for for New York coin.
00;33;48;27 - 00;34;09;02
Derek
I'm told I totally see it. I, and this is always the dream with like, regulated assets on chain and always on chain, like all this stuff. You know, I the North Star, I keep telling people is like, we're going to 100 trillion. And like, some of that's going to be AWS, some of that's going to be treasuries, some of that's going to be dollars, some of that's going to be art and collectibles, gaming assets.
00;34;09;02 - 00;34;31;18
Derek
But like we're at three and a half today. We're going much higher. All of this stuff is going to get absorbed by blockchains. And I think if you play that, that experiment out in the direction that you're describing, Aaron, it's like to me it just means more efficiency, more interesting products and services that you can create to kind of build citywide and state growth and yeah, I just I that's the stuff I get balled up about.
00;34;31;21 - 00;34;36;07
Derek
I mean we just got to we got to convince we got to convince a few folks along the way.
00;34;36;09 - 00;34;50;25
Aaron
Yeah. But I think they could you could stake your assets for building new public works projects. I mean, you could see a lot of different things like that. That would be pretty easy. Chris. You think that you think the politicians would like this? I think we're getting a Hochul coin.
00;34;50;27 - 00;34;56;06
Aaron
Hochul coin, man. Can you imagine revitalizing Buffalo?
00;34;56;08 - 00;34;59;07
Pri
This is the grid stack, not that.
00;34;59;10 - 00;35;08;21
Aaron
Oh, God. Well, for starters, I'm glad that you've lined up like, your identity after our guy, that you're going to become Muni chain guy.
00;35;08;23 - 00;35;12;06
Aaron
Muni chain guy? Oh, God.
00;35;12;08 - 00;35;13;29
Aaron
Yeah, like, hey, what's up, boy?
00;35;14;06 - 00;35;15;17
Pri
All these architects, man.
00;35;15;20 - 00;35;21;15
Aaron
What what would what would Muni chain guy look like? That just sounds like the saddest person on the planet.
00;35;21;17 - 00;35;27;05
Aaron
I don't know, I mean, you know, Muni chain guy probably got a pretty sweet SUV.
00;35;27;08 - 00;35;29;22
Pri
So, like, Andrew Yang would be a good for guy.
00;35;29;25 - 00;35;40;10
Aaron
Yeah. You know, works in the city, but, lives in Westchester. Of course. Muni chain guy probably sends his kids to private schools, you know?
00;35;40;13 - 00;35;44;20
Aaron
Yeah. Believes in public public services, Chris. Definitely public school.
00;35;44;22 - 00;35;46;25
Aaron
Oh, I mean, that's urban muni chain guy.
00;35;47;02 - 00;35;49;18
Aaron
Oh, you're talking about suburban muni guy. Fair enough. I don't know.
00;35;49;22 - 00;36;05;25
Aaron
Many flavors of mutation. Guy. Don't forget. I mean, the mayor of our city doesn't live in our city. You know, it's, it's an amazing time to be alive. And, all sorts of guys can live in Muni chain, even even Muni chain. Gout is welcome.
00;36;05;28 - 00;36;26;17
Aaron
I do like the sentiment tokens that are tied to, like, geographic areas. I think those are completely fascinating. Like, I would love to see, like, like tokens for every great state in the US and major countries, like competing in, like some few Turkey of, prediction market powered future. I'm like ready. I'm ready for that.
00;36;26;17 - 00;36;27;24
Aaron
I'm not going to lie, the.
00;36;27;25 - 00;36;31;20
Pri
Country coin thing really like kind of bad. Like people were really into that.
00;36;31;22 - 00;36;39;03
Aaron
Yeah. I just wish that you could trust the the parties that hold it or, or around it. But the concept is super fascinating.
00;36;39;05 - 00;36;45;17
Aaron
Yeah. The country stuff's a little too far afield for me. I'm here for, like, upstate coins versus Tri-State coin.
00;36;45;19 - 00;36;46;16
Aaron
Yeah.
00;36;46;18 - 00;36;55;22
Aaron
I'm here for, like, Jersey coin, ticker symbol. Boss, duking it out with fake CT. Connecticut, legit.
00;36;55;26 - 00;36;58;04
Aaron
Jersey would win in a heartbeat, man. Come on. Yeah.
00;36;58;04 - 00;36;59;25
Aaron
No kidding. They clobber.
00;36;59;27 - 00;37;05;04
Aaron
They're only winning me close. I think they could take on New York coin. To be honest.
00;37;05;07 - 00;37;06;27
Pri
You guys fought for all the way.
00;37;07;00 - 00;37;10;07
Aaron
You know, Florida coin would be, cesspool.
00;37;10;09 - 00;37;11;04
Pri
Well.
00;37;11;06 - 00;37;15;07
Aaron
I don't know. Florida neckline. It's got some legs to it, but.
00;37;15;10 - 00;37;20;07
Aaron
I think Florida coin would be worse than pump fun, like period.
00;37;20;10 - 00;37;23;10
Pri
Right? You guys are haters. Should I introduce the podcast here?
00;37;23;12 - 00;37;24;19
Aaron
Never.
00;37;24;22 - 00;37;53;01
Pri
Welcome to Net Society, everyone. It's me, Chris, Aaron and Derek today. As you know, not to say that exploring the world of digital art, crypto, AI, tech and more including sometimes we're here to bring deep insights, fresh perspectives, just to hit on some things that, you know, we see on crypto, Twitter, Twitter, thousand more. And just as a reminder, these are these opinions, that we're sharing our our own and not that of our employer.
00;37;53;01 - 00;37;55;02
Pri
So thanks for being here, Derek.
00;37;55;04 - 00;38;04;15
Aaron
Have you, have you seen what Bartow is producing out on the, African savannah of, PJ five? And,
00;38;04;18 - 00;38;12;22
Derek
Yeah, I have I, I kind of love it. What's to on it described it for the audience. What what it looks like.
00;38;12;24 - 00;38;15;06
Aaron
Chris, you're on a tear today, man. You're on a tear.
00;38;15;08 - 00;38;37;19
Aaron
I mean, when I recorded the last one, I had norovirus, so maybe I'm just making up for it. A little, little caged heat here. Yeah. So, Bartow, I want to say it was 22 algorithms. They whittled their way down to and then produced, generative art outputs, you know, that were done by machine. They're listing on verso in a week or two.
00;38;37;21 - 00;39;03;22
Aaron
And, you know, there was a whole host of, them that first posted up the other day, but obviously the one that caught everyone's attention. It was a elephant and a giraffe out in the African grasslands that really did look like, you know, when you send your kids to preschool and they do cutout art, you know, they cut shapes out, faced them on a page and, color everything in.
00;39;03;25 - 00;39;14;18
Aaron
That's what, the giraffe, in particular looks like. And so, yeah, I don't think we've seen art like this since, you know, Kevin hit hit the blockchain I miss.
00;39;14;18 - 00;39;22;17
Pri
Yeah, very, very pixelmon moment, though, not getting the same amount of banality. The giraffe spots are hilarious to me. So good.
00;39;22;19 - 00;39;42;17
Aaron
I was playing around with O3, Mini High and P5 that jazz. It's pretty good, I think. I do think that the programing stuff is getting there, where you can build some pretty cool stuff, like from some of these AI systems. So hopefully we evolve past the, the Savannah into something a little bit more visually appealing.
00;39;42;20 - 00;39;48;14
Pri
I'm waiting for a good new art. I feel like we're in due time where I think people all want some new art.
00;39;48;16 - 00;40;25;05
Derek
I love the crypto art. You guys love all the crypto. I know we've spent a lot of time, talking about crypto art over the last five years. I, I feel like there's something happening right now where people are revisiting priors and, and, and thinking through how to use some of these new technologies. And we're seeing the African Savannah and PS5 and as, like early kind of tests, testing and testbeds and, you know, folks like clown, vamp and and Barto and, and others are, you know, starting to incorporate, synthetic intelligence more and more into what they do and the work that they make.
00;40;25;05 - 00;40;38;22
Derek
And I feel like this is like, a really great period of consolidation and thinking and reorienting, and I feel like it's going to it's going to lead to some really cool stuff here over the, over the next year. So I'm optimistic on that.
00;40;38;25 - 00;40;39;18
Pri
Yeah. Me too.
00;40;39;19 - 00;41;10;28
Aaron
I do think there's a missed opportunity here from our armchair quarterbacking this thing. I, I wouldn't have steered into generative art and processing the the initial batch of what's coming out very much looks like work we've all done in Claude. You know, there's nothing all that distinguishing about it. And I actually don't think this is a strength of machines the way other forms of expression, in digital code are I'd actually go for shaders myself.
00;41;10;29 - 00;41;36;03
Aaron
There's, there's some fantastic stuff being done with shaders right now that essentially boils down to math. And maybe it's it's not quite prime time, but like when I was playing with webcam a lot last year, that's really where I got interesting outputs where, you know, I felt like I was creating dynamic visuals, programmatic shaders. I think that's something we'll be seeing in the future.
00;41;36;03 - 00;41;44;11
Aaron
But in the meantime, we do have giraffes and lines and whatever they are, the, the, the tropes of the former.
00;41;44;14 - 00;42;00;02
Aaron
And I agree with that, Chris. I mean, did you see this just pivoting a little bit to, like I said, like you're seeing, there was a really cool project. It was like a cursor, but, more for visual designers. What's cool that is that like, as you're changing it, it's writing the code underneath. And I'm going to tie this all together.
00;42;00;02 - 00;42;23;00
Aaron
But there's been a couple of experiments just kind of playing around with having like the rendering and then auto generating the code behind the scenes. And I feel like the complexity related to that, whether it's like WebGL or P5, JS or even just other kind of more visually presented user interfaces, the loop between that and like the underlying software is just closing like really, really fast.
00;42;23;00 - 00;42;46;08
Aaron
So I think you're going to see a lot more complex, interesting visual presentations and same thing like a web webcam on steroids. It just kind of wild. Just sidebar, like last night, my son's been learning HTML and school, and so that was helping him with it because I know a bit about that. And then I spent like 20 minutes with him just to like cursor just building out his site.
00;42;46;08 - 00;42;57;25
Aaron
And it's, it's his mind was like blown, just how fast you can do all this stuff. So it's all moving really quick, man. And I think it's going to eventually hit the, the art market because you can bring your ideas. So I finally.
00;42;57;27 - 00;43;05;10
Aaron
Does the, school curriculum require understanding nested tables or they all divs and liquid layouts.
00;43;05;12 - 00;43;08;07
Aaron
Divs and liquid layouts to their credit.
00;43;08;10 - 00;43;11;02
Aaron
Then you got to give them the fundamentals.
00;43;11;05 - 00;43;15;16
Aaron
Yeah. Nobody wants to make tables. That was the worst.
00;43;15;19 - 00;43;19;04
Aaron
Where the hell is this? Tiago? I didn't close my tag.
00;43;19;10 - 00;43;50;27
Pri
Webs and mango is. I was actually on that discord a couple days ago. It's funny, you mentioned I was like, I don't know what's going on there. And they have these, like, artists and residents there that are making different web sims and portals and that kind of thing. And I wonder if, like, you know, elevating digital art into something like Web Center or a portal, which is like the art experiment itself, that I don't know how you turn that into an NFT or something, but I feel like there is something there where maybe the next big art thing is like some sort of web portal.
00;43;51;00 - 00;44;17;02
Aaron
Will let me do a lot of time together here. You know, one thing sitting up in the universe for stack is putting, points programs on chain, rewarding actions with token incentives. And so what we really need like at least something I've been looking for for a long time, are token governance creator networks, in which the objects themselves are pretty much worthless.
00;44;17;05 - 00;44;45;11
Aaron
You know, there keepsakes or mementos or things to share with your friends, and the value accrues inside. You know, the value accrues in, around the entire network via an ERC 20. And so if you can get to the point where you you have a web sim type product, you have these huge creator networks and you know, you're plugging, a T or SSC, you know, some, some form of like verification, around the compute.
00;44;45;11 - 00;45;03;20
Aaron
And then your rewarding those actions with the token distribution. Right. Like that is an aligned loop of UGC in which we get crypto x I in a way where, yeah, you know, this media can be net beneficial as a producer and not extractive.
00;45;03;26 - 00;45;06;21
Pri
It's crypto AI and Web3 social.
00;45;06;24 - 00;45;07;09
Aaron
Yeah.
00;45;07;09 - 00;45;10;04
Pri
And and it's like minted social networks basically.
00;45;10;09 - 00;45;29;20
Aaron
Yeah. But with like some uni like and all these like DeFi hooks into I do think uni vs before is not being celebrated enough. I actually went through and tried to think through like a couple use cases for it. Would you guys want to hear some? Because I think it's a lot bigger than what it seems like.
00;45;29;22 - 00;45;33;27
Aaron
I love uni v4 guy over RWA. All right guy.
00;45;34;05 - 00;45;54;01
Aaron
Let me put up let me let me take out let me take off my Patagonian and settle in here. But I do think like you're going to get new dex aggregators from that. So uni V4 has got a couple different things. Like they have hooks, flash accounting and this Singleton orchid architecture. But you're going to get super efficient multi-hop routing and dynamic fee adjustments.
00;45;54;03 - 00;46;11;04
Aaron
And so I think that built on top of that, instead of having like a one inch or some of the other Dex aggregators we saw in the last cycle, you'll get kind of like the next generation of that. And that's big, right? Like, I think the thesis around those Dex aggregators is that they become a little bit like the, the Google search just for tokens.
00;46;11;06 - 00;46;39;16
Aaron
So, you know, maybe relooking there, I think could make some sense. I do think, like what you were saying, Chris, just around like token distributions, a big one. But the customizable hooks, like, theoretically allow for like liquidity bootstrapping with vesting schedules, semantic measures, automated liquidity lock ups. And so I think you could see kind of like initial Dex offerings or like some sort of fare launches using unity for definitely like a ton on the lending and borrowing side.
00;46;39;21 - 00;47;13;02
Aaron
So you can combine like AMM liquidity with lending functionality. So out of range liquidity can be deployed to an interest. So I think we mentioned that before, but that'd be a natural complement to like other than compound which are already multibillion dollar markets. I think you're going to get automated yield aggregators and auto compounding pools. So you can imagine reinvesting fees and allocating idle liquidity to external yield opportunities, which would produce like an auto compounding LP, LP position, which I think would be pretty sweet, which I think is pretty pretty cool too.
00;47;13;02 - 00;47;30;22
Aaron
And I do think you're going to finally get like MVPs, Resistent trading pools. And I think that's why Uni Chain is really focused on that. And that just means like safer places to put capital reduced arbitrage and sandwich attacks. And I think longer term you're going to you're going to start to see like definitive structured financial products because of it too, right?
00;47;30;23 - 00;47;57;04
Aaron
Like you won't be able to split liquidity into different tranches, create structured products that mimic bonds or CDOs. I mean, that's dangerous stuff to play around with. But knowing the risk tolerance for crypto, I can imagine that getting pretty big. And then last, I do think, like really for the first time, you may be able to have crypto based insurance products, which would be really wild, but that that's a tough like a tough market, but something that we really kind of need.
00;47;57;04 - 00;48;16;14
Aaron
And then the last I do think that there's like a uni v4 plus NFT component. I think Zorro is playing around with this a bit, but you can imagine you never incorporating NFTs into liquidity pools. Maybe that enables, you know, something that looks a little bit more like fraction ization, dynamic NFT pricing or just using them as collateral.
00;48;16;21 - 00;48;27;10
Aaron
So I think there's quite a bit there to sell. I think there's like a ton around this and people just haven't they haven't really been paying enough attention, to it. I think it's coming.
00;48;27;12 - 00;48;29;20
Aaron
That all sounds fantastic. Thank you for that.
00;48;29;22 - 00;48;38;03
Aaron
No worries. Is that good? Let me get my hold on, I got it, I got his I got to zip it back up my Patagonia vest. They tell you about those stablecoins?
00;48;38;06 - 00;48;50;16
Derek
Well, I mean like the I mean, these things are not mutually exclusive Aaron. Like, I think stablecoins in ways and uni V4 hooks are all going to come together and some amalgamation that leads to an even warmer Patagonia jacket.
00;48;50;18 - 00;48;51;22
Aaron
A puffy jacket.
00;48;51;24 - 00;49;20;17
Derek
I tend to agree. I'm optimistic. I mean, like, it's all I think with with each version of uni that we've seen v1, v2, v3 and v4, there's been steps in the right direction in terms of efficiency lowering things like, you know, like the frictions that exist just using the product, using external products. It's starting to feel more like rails than a singular service, which is, I think where we're going with this stuff.
00;49;20;17 - 00;49;39;20
Derek
Right? We want we want real routes to get built on top of this, on top of the distance remediation of finance and stuff like uni for feels like the right step in that direction. So I agree with everything you're saying and optimistic that I'm already seeing dozens of projects playing around with hooks and, and, and the product itself.
00;49;39;20 - 00;49;46;11
Derek
And I think we're going to, well, hopefully see a hotbed of stuff here and innovation, at the edges around some of these things you're describing.
00;49;46;13 - 00;50;06;05
Aaron
Well, that that's why I going back to the beginning, if you actually think that this is the start of the cycle, like institutional capital is, and it has always been the final last time around, it was more like venture venture capital. That was funding it. This time it's going to be more traditional capital. I mean, and you see like innovations like we're seeing a little bit around uni V for like I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility.
00;50;06;05 - 00;50;27;06
Aaron
You've got like DeFi Summer 2.0 coming and we're moving out of this like P2P era, of crypto. And I think in between you're going to see some really low cost innovations on the C or Z K innovations that drive down costs even further. And, I don't know, regulatory landscape clearing up. You could see it all kind of aligning nicely potentially.
00;50;27;09 - 00;50;32;20
Aaron
I mean guys Utah is going to be buying Bitcoin. It looks like they're like look like they're leading the charge.
00;50;32;22 - 00;50;34;27
Pri
Are they just proposing that. Are they actually going to.
00;50;34;27 - 00;50;54;21
Aaron
I think get moved and moved into like from one chamber to another. So it looks like the states are going to push the Bitcoin reserve more than the feds, which is wild. And I think, Chris, that's going to get the institutional capital sitting in the wings or the wings coming out of the comment coming out of their grass grassland base positions.
00;50;54;21 - 00;50;59;00
Aaron
This is really like a savannah like episode. It sounds like it feels like.
00;50;59;03 - 00;51;10;03
Aaron
Boomer bull guy. You heard it right there. So Utah is going ahead with this is interesting. Makes me wonder if the LDS has already has a stake in Bitcoin.
00;51;10;10 - 00;51;12;00
Pri
I was actually thinking that too.
00;51;12;02 - 00;51;14;14
Aaron
The Mormons are buying our coins.
00;51;14;21 - 00;51;23;05
Aaron
I just looked it up. It unanimously passed a historic Bitcoin reserve bill and it moves to the Senate. And it was about 18 hours ago.
00;51;23;07 - 00;51;31;18
Pri
Well, that's going to have to pass the Senate. But that is crazy. Yeah. You know, I mean, there's like 14 other states I think that have like introduced something similar.
00;51;31;20 - 00;51;47;08
Aaron
Right. That's kind of the game theory is just like you got to just jump in first, right? Like you can't wait like you got to get off, get out of the sidelines and just hop in. And then I can't imagine if a couple states do it that the feds are not going to want to get thrown run by the states.
00;51;47;08 - 00;52;28;05
Aaron
So it's interesting, like to really stretch that out. I do see one version of, you know, this current wave of government reform and conservative agenda really as seceding. Right? So I don't know if it's the right word to use in this context, but letting go of roles and services that they once performed and delegating those functions down to the states and if states start creating strategic reserves, state wealth funds, right, it's as a vehicle to allow them to fund and run, you know, experiments that are in their own interests.
00;52;28;08 - 00;52;51;23
Aaron
You can start seeing like a necessity or decoupling that is in line with, you know, the current administration. And a lot of the current thinking out there, we've only really ever considered this in terms of like, you know, culture issues or, you know, reproductive access issues. But yeah, you can run a long enough time frame, right, and start getting into funding services.
00;52;51;23 - 00;53;11;26
Aaron
Yeah, completely. And I think, you know, with so many retirees, I think the states have certain obligations they want to make good on. Right. So I think that that's also driving it as well. Like they want to take care of their local population. And it kind of makes sense for them to kind of bolster that. And their economies of all these states are pretty massive if you view them more as like individual countries.
00;53;11;26 - 00;53;29;00
Aaron
So I think it aligns pretty well with the original or can align pretty well with some of the original visions of the country, where states are taking a little bit more control over things. And that's why, Chris, we may get, you know, muni bond, man, Muni coin guy to.
00;53;29;00 - 00;53;31;20
Aaron
Me, coin guy, good old Mickey.
00;53;31;22 - 00;53;34;13
Pri
Start at the regional level. First.
00;53;34;15 - 00;53;41;05
Aaron
Yeah. I'm not jumping in until it's like upstate coined rasterize decline. All right. That's when I get excited.
00;53;41;07 - 00;53;43;26
Aaron
Not when it's Queens versus Brooklyn coin.
00;53;43;28 - 00;53;47;23
Aaron
Oh, man, I don't need it. We don't need any of that.
00;53;47;25 - 00;53;50;25
Aaron
Yeah, it's because you guys wouldn't have the better coin I here.
00;53;50;28 - 00;53;56;09
Aaron
Like, we got a federated. We need some, like mutualism on this one. €5 coin all the way.
00;53;56;09 - 00;53;59;18
Aaron
I know, I think I think Brooklyn coin would would win the boroughs.
00;53;59;20 - 00;54;08;20
Aaron
Well, yes. I mean, Brooklyn has the idle time on its hands of Manhattan doesn't to pump a coin. That's so true.
00;54;08;22 - 00;54;12;12
Aaron
It's also got the better demos demographics.
00;54;12;14 - 00;54;14;08
Pri
The supply distribution.
00;54;14;10 - 00;54;16;29
Aaron
That's I mean, younger, more vibrant.
00;54;17;06 - 00;54;20;21
Pri
I don't think so. Anyway, should we, wrap this one up?
00;54;20;23 - 00;54;30;29
Aaron
Where do we go from here? Other than the other than a good bye? Yeah.
00;54;31;01 - 00;54;42;05
Aaron
You.