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A sailing podcast for racing sailors everywhere. Exclusive interviews with the sport's top names. Presented by British sailing journalist Justin Chisholm.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're listening to the Yacht Racing Live podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: The show for racing sailors everywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Featuring exclusive stories and interviews from across the world of competitive sailing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hosted by British sailing journalist Justin Chishoff, available wherever you get your pocket.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the Yacht Racing Life Podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Justin Chasholm, and my guest this time is British double Olympic medalist Ian Percy.
[SPEAKER_01]: CEO of Artemis Technologies and the newly announced Swedish Artemis Cell GP team, which will be skipped by Nathan Outridge in Season 6 of the Global High Performance Circuit.
[SPEAKER_01]: During our chat, we discussed his role at Artemis Technologies, the reasons for Artemis joining LGP, his thoughts on the relative merits of the America's cut versus LGP, and he gave us a clue into just what we might be able to expect from the new kids on the block when the new season of LGP gets underway next year.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Ian, Percy, welcome to the Yacht Racing Life Podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to talk to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looks like you're over in Belfast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can see some Artemis logos on the wall behind you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where are you exactly?
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, Justin.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, over in Belfast, the Artemis Technologies headquarters here.
[SPEAKER_02]: So in the day job, but still managing to get a bit of time
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's enormous news, big news for CELGP, big news for artists that you guys are joining the circuit this time around.
[SPEAKER_01]: The last time we saw artists' technologies in terms of foiling boats was back in the America's cut days, but the team itself has continued to exist and to sail in other forms, hasn't it?
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to talk about that just a little bit?
[SPEAKER_02]: thought you're going to remind me of the date and you're going to make me feel really old 2017.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, the Artemis, the racing team has been around for a long time.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, most 20 years and it's, um, it's sailed in lots of different boats and obviously most famously with the America's Cup.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, Artemis is Artemis racing is, is Torbians,
[SPEAKER_02]: sweet of things that he does personally, this is slightly different, which I'll come to later.
[SPEAKER_02]: They are an MSLGP team, but in that time, we've done RC44s, which is a class, a program circuit that a lot of people will know, great both and tested both to sound the light, actually, my favourite.
[SPEAKER_02]: big boat itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I've kept myself a little bit of time to enjoy sailing still and spent time on the water.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, look, it's great to be back at the highest level of racing with Artemis, I think the team.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there are a lot of the same members of that team are, you know, that they had a very little special time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, as you nearly ten years ago now, but we're
[SPEAKER_01]: So what was the change?
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you see in surgery P that drew you back in?
[SPEAKER_01]: How did it all come about?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think one of the things that was frustrating in 17 for all of Artemis, Torbian included, I think was the change that the Americas Cup had every time there was a new
[SPEAKER_02]: meant it was really quite dysfunctional, from a team perspective, from a commercial perspective, and that was quite, you know, the irony is it's a beauty of it, and I think it's what attracted to all being turned and all of us at the beginning, but in 2017, having built the team up to the point where we had that really close final team, New Zealand, and then Louis Vuitton final, for it all to stop, and then we were in limbo for a year.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it dawned on
[SPEAKER_02]: on, I guess, talking, particularly the lack of commerciality of sailing, and I think for Torbion, he's really cared deeply about the sport growing and attracting new audiences, and for him that meant fast-boads, exciting action, and the cup.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, still has that, for sure, but it has this hiatus of stopping, and it makes it, and it's quite challenging, commercially, being in different venues and random times, and
[SPEAKER_02]: think a bit of time out looking at the growth of cell GP, it's hard not to see that a lot of those negatives have been taken away.
[SPEAKER_02]: Really, strong leadership of cell GP, they've had a very consistent direction from the beginning to maximise the commerciality of
[SPEAKER_02]: the sport of the product of watching sailing, you know, making it about people getting excited to watch it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think from afar, I certainly was admiring that when I was lucky enough to go to quite a few events over the last five years, as guests of people and...
[SPEAKER_02]: in part of the hospitality experience and it's clear that it was starting to get traction and it was starting to get to a point where it is going to promote our spot beyond its current enthusiasm, you know, you and me are adjusting, but I think for a lot of us we're excited to see so GP-rich in your audiences.
[SPEAKER_02]: So
[SPEAKER_02]: Ultimately was that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not, it is a commercial decision.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is important that Artemis surgery appears a commercial outfit, but maybe more importantly, it's commercial as a sport, as a sporting product, because if it's commercial, it breaks even, makes profit, it will grow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, commercially people want to enter to grow.
[SPEAKER_02]: There'll be more stars of the future.
[SPEAKER_02]: There'll be incentives to train up the next generation and it'll grow.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think
[SPEAKER_02]: but particularly the sport as a whole.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think something that I've certainly admired over the last five years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you guys track the Americas cup as well?
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess you did.
[SPEAKER_01]: You must have been watching what was going on because it's slightly ironic that some of the things that you've talked about there are what are trying to be fixed with this new American cup of ownership agreement.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I happen to, you know, of course it does enthusiasm of the sport.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, look, I'm as a neutral.
[SPEAKER_02]: You always want that to be one premier circuit in the sport.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think of myself, talking to any different in the moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's not, there's two.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think absolutely, as you say, I think it's not, we're not, we're sent out the first ones to recognize the lack of commercial viability of something that stops, starts is hugely expensive without any kind
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and so hopefully that is so yeah, look, I was in Barcelona a lot and talking on a personal level committed to the youth and women's, America's got last time and as committed to do that again, it's very much about him supporting Sweden and Swedish sailing, but in doing that, of course, we were there checking it out, um, having a look at the, the competition.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think,
[SPEAKER_02]: think we're pretty impressed.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was pretty impressed with that too, but I think, you know, where over a year later now, it is not really any option to join as a new team.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's facing ultimately the same challenges I described, despite for a year, I think everyone very diligently trying to solve them.
[SPEAKER_02]: the fact of remains is a year later and they've not been sold which in of itself is evidence to the challenge and I think let's hope it is so obvious how this partnership agreement means that the America's cap can can grow and of course of some probably romantic level of liking sailing you'd like it to be one commercial circuit but still with that America's cap brand has some point I know you know a lot of people have given up on that but still are you know as a sailing fan I'd like it but
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, I wish them well.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know these things are hard, they're hard legally, they're due to give their hard commercially to get a group of people together to make that agreement.
[SPEAKER_02]: But obviously, I'm close to Ben.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think he more than anyone is trying very hard to make that happen along with many others as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Does it, does you enter in sales GP, committing to sales GP?
[SPEAKER_01]: Does that really out now from the cup going forward?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or is it still watching brief?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, certainly for the next one.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think actually, I think practically there's time, their challenges, you know, and there's no time to build a new boat and the rules.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was really designed as a holding pattern to keep the momentum, I suppose.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that all spelted probably six months ago for anyone new.
[SPEAKER_02]: But look, I think Torbian would have to make that decision.
[SPEAKER_02]: It would always be a personal decision.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think at the moment, I don't think you could argue the America's Cup is yet a commercial decision.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's hope that changes, but at the moment, it's never going to be something that's going to pay for itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he grew up like all of us watching the America's camps and never say never, but I think for this was definitely a little bit of a decision that if there's going to be a sporting circuit in the neater that offers something that can be taken to commercial brands can be in a position where there's an incentive to train up the next generation because it could offer value in the future.
[SPEAKER_02]: I see that happening in Saudi P today and I think we see it in the America's capital in the future as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's talk a bit about what you've been doing for a day job, you've had a proper job running Artemis technologies for those people who don't know, just just talk about that for us and explain a bit about what that organization does.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, after the last America's camp, we were debating what to do a little bit and then
[SPEAKER_02]: Torbian decided he wasn't going to do the America's Cup and he very kindly gave me all the assets as he said.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did joke with him that that's probably just given me a wage bill.
[SPEAKER_02]: But in all seriousness when he gave was a good team of people away of doing things and so suddenly myself and a few of the other key members of Artemis Technologies Dave and Dean included
[SPEAKER_02]: we needed to make something obvious.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we started a consulting company.
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, one of the first jobs we did was the, a lot of the design work on the first season of SOGP, which was ironic.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's done full circle built a simulator for that as it's, you know, in our factory today.
[SPEAKER_02]: But while we were doing that, we were looking, I mean, I was really driven personally.
[SPEAKER_02]: to decarbonise, I think it's hard for anyone who is sailing on these boats not to, you know, for it to be lost on them that you are sailing is incredibly efficient boats using just the wind, surely there's an ability to scale.
[SPEAKER_02]: So while we are working as a consultant, which we still do, by the way, run by Sarah Gunnison doing very well doing a lot of the
[SPEAKER_02]: You probably will have heard of a lot of the top boats out there in the Grand Prix circuit.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm using bits of artist technologies design, but while that was happening, we were looking for product, and I think an investment.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we really settled around the electric foiling boats because we saw a commercial return, you know, with that today, back to the analogy of the CRGP.
[SPEAKER_02]: Today, we saw a commercial trip return for ourselves, for operators.
[SPEAKER_02]: with a decarbonizing technology.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we looked at a lot of stuff, looked at wing sales a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, we'd love to think wing sales on ships.
[SPEAKER_02]: We never saw the commercial return being there early enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's why we did the side did develop that product.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I had to go about setting out and finding investment for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, Artemis really grew off the back of then raising private and public funding nearly 100 million sterling for the development of that products.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so five years later, that's where we are.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got the 12-time kind of small boat hour.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got 350 passenger ferries that are going to be hitting the water pretty soon.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, things have moved forward in the right direction.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been a real fun ride, learning a lot of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, before this all I started in sport, I studied economics at uni.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was nice to be back doing a little bit of that again in a way in the Excel spreadsheet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ultimately, the challenges here in Artemis technologies feel very similar to Captain Emole.
[SPEAKER_02]: And as ever, there's technical challenges, there's people challenges.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you have to enjoy overcoming them.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the scale of the business?
[SPEAKER_01]: How many people have you got working there now?
[SPEAKER_02]: How's about 200 people?
[SPEAKER_02]: A reasonably, you know, a reasonably size organisation, a lot, so that R&D will probably over 80 engineers,
[SPEAKER_02]: quite a lot of indoor engineers working between the consulting business, we have a business making drive trains and batteries and charges as well, which is going well as a spin-off from the product we had to develop.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, look, not not not not unsizable but we're still like any scaling company we're in that valley of death and we're lucky that we've had really good public and private support to get through that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you never out the woods with a new business, but we certainly, yeah, things have continued to go at least two steps forward, one step back, not the other way around.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it sounds like an amazing business that you've built there, what's the longer term goal for this business, just to keep on keeping on?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, look, I think the vessel side of the business, the E4 of vessels, I mean, I think we've got a reasonably large order book now to fulfill.
[SPEAKER_02]: So at the moment, you know, thinking longer than just fulfilling for our, you know, the customers that have shown faith and understand the value that the product offers.
[SPEAKER_02]: But for sure, you know, the subsystem products we've developed around
[SPEAKER_02]: batteries and drive trains are really quite impressive bits of kit and offer a larger market size outside of that, outside of marine as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the consulting business is a really nice compliment to what we do because that's got
[SPEAKER_02]: 15 of our very sharpest engineers doing cutting edge stuff from all sorts of weird and wonderful projects, a lot outside marine, you can themselves at the real cutting edge of simulation generally.
[SPEAKER_02]: and I think that, you know, that's really powerful because it gives you a very, very strong, highly functioning team.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you can justify it financially because they're doing other projects.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think the three strands to the business is really the way we're going and they're becoming
[SPEAKER_02]: because they're growing in their own right and so there's managing directors in place for those three divisions and so I think that growth in these happen over the next three years and each of them have their own challenges but on the vessel side you know certainly to see our vessels deploying every time we deploy one of our high speed 150 passenger ferris were saving over 3000 tons of
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's starting to be tangible every time one of those vessels is to pay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you describe the organisation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't help but think how it would lend itself to an America's Cupcamp home with all of that, all of that technical knowledge, all of that, that skill and just the systems and the communication you've got going on there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, maybe I painted a rosy up in Japan, and I'm joking.
[SPEAKER_02]: My late, I look, don't get me wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've run in America's cab team, and you feel challenged.
[SPEAKER_02]: You certainly don't feel you're doing things right there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And look, we, I think what, I agree to any stand.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think certainly some of the stuff in our applied technologies, division is very similar to the work I used to do, but actually on, say, the vessel side,
[SPEAKER_02]: comes much more orientated towards production, you know, business systems, um, then the exactities of a small performance gain are less important than the running of the business, but but then get me wrong, you know, I think I think certainly aspects of what we do is really genuinely cutting edge and I think some of the stuff that we do in applied tech is,
[SPEAKER_02]: I have every confidence would design a set of foils with the same run as a current up-to-cup team.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's obviously a lot more to a cup team.
[SPEAKER_02]: Organizations are more often to what they need to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we've probably more to little bit away from what you need to be for an America's cup team, kind of intentionally.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you wouldn't be doing a standing start, that's for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me a bit about the consultancy business and some other stuff that that's some of the products that are in the marine and in the racing world.
[SPEAKER_01]: What would people know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Check what I'm allowed to say.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I think we've won most 52 classes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Tp52 circuit over the last five or six years, it would be rare that the lead boat hasn't got a new fresh design of appendages out of our design office.
[SPEAKER_02]: Same with the arrow, set up in terms of sales shapes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, I think merely of us rather, in our consulting business, we're more of an optimization service.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have an element of design, but we tend to work with designers, so we don't put our hand up necessarily to say it's our design.
[SPEAKER_02]: We tend to take the data that we're given, so I'm input from anyone, sailors, designers, and we optimize, but we optimize in a very high fidelity world, and that's probably
[SPEAKER_02]: Our strength is the level of fidelity, the simulations coupled with the amount of Sweeps of studies you can do at that level of fidelity.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you see what I mean, so as opposed to a traditional VPP or a gun bar simulator, which is really good in its speed of ability to look at a wide design space.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not as fast as that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we are very accurate in the way of CFDers, but we also move that CFD towards the simulator world in terms of the dynamics.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we incaning include, for example, deforming sales shapes and waves and steering and travel moving, everything in a high fidelity world.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we can add layers of fidelity to our investigations that when Steve correctly can mean you avoid,
[SPEAKER_02]: a mistake that just doing with either a fast simpler tool or a static higher fidelity tool can find.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll give you examples with some boats.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you optimize it for
[SPEAKER_02]: flat water, you get wildly different outputs in terms of loading on the boat and the appendages.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then you do, if you put in a degree of dynamic.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's really Artemis tech in the sailing sense now, because we do quite a lot of other stuff outside that and quite a lot of real time and simulators, but the real strength of Artemis technologies
[SPEAKER_02]: the fidelity to speed output on average as it's high as anything I think is out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of that sounds very reminiscent of conversations I heard a few weeks ago when I was in North Sales and we were talking about the Ferrari high-pacel project and the the Ferrari engineers and the North Sales designers were
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about the way that they have to assimilate the two ways of thinking together.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you been tracking that project?
[SPEAKER_02]: I only casually, you know, have seen a little bit of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, we've seen a lot of F1 teams within the America's Carp and what I would say is it's been clear that every time there's been a collaboration for years has not been enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's really good understandable reasons for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the sport, like Formula 1 is an iterative process with a lot of quality data.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sailing is non- iterative with very poor quality when you do have it because of the noise of waves.
[SPEAKER_02]: and I think therefore culturally the design processes are quite opposite the people involved in Formula One are pretty smart of course and they get there but the observer from the America's Cup has been having never quite got there by the time the Cup ends.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's probably a good way of looking at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So back to the sales GP team, how much of a no brainer discussion was it to hire back, Nathan Outridge as your skipper?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was very natural for us.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, you know, the only negative is the nationality aspect with him because, you know, he'd done a lot of the sales GP, just won the America's Cup.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the truth it is,
[SPEAKER_02]: he was probably one of the catalysts for it happening too.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, it would have been unfair not to have included him.
[SPEAKER_02]: He happened to be in BBI's when myself, Sarah, talking in him, you know, met up and, you know, he frankly was tabling the idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, it would have been, you know, it would have been harsh, harsh to have not included him.
[SPEAKER_02]: But of course, we, you know, we would have naturally anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he, I think,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, he's moved on a lot since in that eight, eight, nine years since we've been there He's done a lot in his career since then including quite a lot of cell GP and one full season which he, you know, was pretty much even going to that final with Tom and no one's really been since on the through the series.
[SPEAKER_02]: obviously the Spanish one last year but through the series.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think, you know, he went winning the America's cart was the fantastic favor in his career.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I think it was a natural fit, the management, you know, I had a mess of work with him a long time to all be in those him.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I think it was a natural fit.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I think it works with his maturity now because
[SPEAKER_02]: I won't be as round as much.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, really I can very confidently leave it with him and Sarah Gunnison to run the team because they both are very experienced in their areas.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think, you know, I don't use many people you can say that about, as well as being a top soner.
[SPEAKER_01]: Any issues with his role with Team New Zealand and just the spread of time?
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see how much Schubes think next in 2027.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, I think if I was, and I know this is the case, any Cup team owner manager is pretty delighted to have their sailors sailing in Saudi P in 2026 and beginning part of 27 because, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: I fell to every cup I did coming from the Olympics.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're never fresher and sharper than coming off the back of high end racing that you put you're all into.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think utterly no-in issue over the next 18 months complementary.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure for all parties.
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously the challenge comes in 27 and you know, I think we obviously
[SPEAKER_02]: miss numb to as little as possible of the racing, but I think we got our eyes open of course, we made a conscious decision with our team.
[SPEAKER_02]: We should just your C announced over the coming weeks to to put our front foot forward into next season, get ourselves, you know, close to the front of fleet as we can hopefully right at the front and then we will we will work on it from there.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, the team hasn't been announced.
[SPEAKER_01]: She've announced Julia Gross has your first Swedish sailor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it going to be an all Swedish team?
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell us that at least?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, we're not being all Swedish team.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it'll be.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think he did some countries are all from the key within the Brisbane.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, we won't be.
[SPEAKER_02]: It'll be, I think, one of the most important things with SalgyP
[SPEAKER_02]: So it says breeds success because of the prize money is really fantastic, element for the league for the sport, but also for attracting the talent.
[SPEAKER_02]: But so in that sense success breeds success, you need to be at the front of the fleet and to be at the front of the fleet in a incredibly technical boat that you're not allowed to get any practice in.
[SPEAKER_02]: means realistically, you have to hire from people who are already very experienced and very at the top.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you'll see over the coming weeks, we have completely not skimmed in that area.
[SPEAKER_02]: This, we will be hiring within the nationality rules of the very, very best.
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw Jimmy come in and poach quite a few people from other teams.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that what you have to do in this European moment?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just an, I mean, that's kind of what I'm meaning with the lack of training time and this extra catalyst of success breeding success because of the way in which the prize money works.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a sensible team, though, really is there to compete at the highest level, can do nothing else.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is it going to take to think for Artemis racing to be successful?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's you're riding this wave at the moment of everybody's, you know, really delighted to have you back.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's some some high expectations.
[SPEAKER_01]: Been set.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think just in people's minds.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm maybe not in yours.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what can we expect from you guys in season one?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, honestly, just, you know, I wouldn't necessarily be the most qualified to answer.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I know people, I know sailing to an extent, but I, you know, I've been an enjoyed many assailurgy peer event, but I wouldn't say, we've put together the strongest team that we would, that we was practical for us.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the question mark comes around not that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think there's any doubt in the people we're going to put on that team sheet could all be on a winning boat.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know that the challenges it's a team sport and you've got to build that team work that understanding those communication protocols, the protocols with the booth, there's a lot of work that goes into the performances you see from those team and that takes time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like going to school, you know, you don't pass his arms without revision, I have a smile you are.
[SPEAKER_02]: you've got to work a way that and we can't short cut that into no time.
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to short cut that into as minimal time as possible.
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, but you can't pretend that it just happens without that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: It can in the old race and it can't even in the odd series, so don't hold me to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: If we win, I'll still be happy.
[SPEAKER_02]: The reality is on average, it won't happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: On average, people work hard and get better over time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, just like you do when you revise for a level.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think I think for for our team, we're going to have a team that's got unbound to pedigree and talent coupled with some really talented youngsters, um, bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: They will need to work together over time to put in consistent performances.
[SPEAKER_02]: That how long that is with the time you have in practice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you can't just work yourself harder because you're not allowed time on the water,
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say 2-3rd to the way through the season, I will be expecting Nathan and his team to be starting to before.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_01]: You must have watched teams like the Italians come in again with lots of talent, lots of on paper, lots of potential and really other than flashes of brilliance, they've not really delivered.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that a concern with you guys?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or always concerned, you don't want to be presumptuous because I agree with you huge amount of talent on that Italian boat, but not huge amount of celgipiss variants with this section of Carl and I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: As I said, you can be the smartest, most talented person in the world, but if you haven't studied for your exams, you don't just turn up, and I think that sport even more so, sport is not magic in sport, you know, not at this level, there's too many good people, if it was a, it's not a band's operation, it's about perspiration, in this sport, I'm in Saudi P because I like a training time, that does take quite a few, it's quite a long period of time in terms of months because you can't just fast track it with effort.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it doesn't surprise me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, you know, I think we're aware of that risk and therefore we've tried to shortcut that with experience people who have been racing, you know, on the podium regularly at cell GP events.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it without that talent is probably not enough, just like it isn't in anything in life.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got to, you've got to do your hard yards.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think the fact that you get such limited time with CLGP, it's one way of leveling the playing field for sure?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think there's, there comes an element that it does limits the progress as well because it kind of is a limiting factor, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a challenge for new people coming into the sport for, for, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: It drives up the value of individuals who have got that experience and makes it harder to add supply to the demand and supply curves.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, these are every gone pre is a really important event for sponsors for the team.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can't really want to waste it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's not a case of blooding young talent like they're having football with, you know, the lead couple, something and they put up a younger side to slowly introduce them and they're allowed to train every day in football.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't have that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think, I think over time, the channels for bringing young talent into the sport.
[SPEAKER_02]: is one that maybe we need to look at.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's what's interesting is.
[SPEAKER_02]: once you have the ability in cell GP, there's incredible value for someone the individual, the team that have that individual under on their books.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think the incentive to train is there, just the downside of taking your own 18 off the very limited time they have on the boat is also there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So look, I think cell GP are looking at that, trying to address ways in which you can get more training time on, so young, younger, new talent can come through and I think there's,
[SPEAKER_02]: from a team perspective, I think that's a positive.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about the size of the fleet right now, we're racing around with a pretty big fleet on a, while they're often very small courses, especially in the lighter venues?
[SPEAKER_01]: It can become a bit of a lottery, would you favour the split fleet?
[SPEAKER_02]: Not on the moment, I think personally, I think there's a really hammer called debate among all the teams about the pros and cons.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, for me, the real reason I don't is not so much whether there's too many or too little, I think, when you've got an odd number, I think we as a sport sometimes overestimate the education of our viewers and we should be focusing on the least sailing educated of our viewers and making it utterly simple as it can.
[SPEAKER_02]: because, you know, ever much I enjoyed watching John and Anna win the Nacra Worlds last week, I had to phone him about four times to understand the scores as a week went along.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that can't be right.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we've got to make it as simple as we can.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and look, and I think what works about Salty Pea, which is actually
[SPEAKER_02]: as opposed to the Olympics, which is why I support the sailors push not to make it too much of a last race finale is the fact you have 1314 Grand Prix in Saudi P it comes out in the
[SPEAKER_02]: the best teams rise to the top.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, sure, then it's a one race thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But by then, quite a lot of the season, they had quite a lot of the commercial value has come out, a lot of the prize money has come out.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not all on that one race.
[SPEAKER_02]: And to have got to that final race, yes, you've sometimes in some light wind, tricky venues, and it's a bit of a random element.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm really happy that over the season.
[SPEAKER_02]: the best three teams come to the top of Sergei P. I think that's not what you can always say about a very short one week Olympics.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, look, I'm actually okay with it and I've been someone having had a tough medal race in a drift off and run and wind can be a bit anti it, but the way I reconciler is if you do it over a season, a lot of different venues, it'll leave it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's though an opportunity for a new team like you to come in and innovate, not in the boat, they're one design, obviously.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in the way that you approach the campaign and I'm thinking a lot about what you do in between events because that's the bit we don't see particularly.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got a little bit of a feel that there's much more data analysis going on and maybe briefing
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, look, I like to think so, but I'm sure all the teams like to think so.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not, yeah, pretend to think I'm the one who's got, you know, any better ideas.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been in this game a long time and I'm passionate about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So sure, I love some ideas, but so will all the other teams.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think our sailing and coaching team have very committed to try to look at ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you're right, just an equivalent innovation.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is about trying to do things differently and evolving the way in which we tackle the sport to take account of things like the booth, take account of the limit to training time.
[SPEAKER_02]: take the count of shared data.
[SPEAKER_02]: So look, I hope so.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to kid myself that all the other very, very skilled teams.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm also thinking how they can get an advantage, but Artemis certainly will be as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a couple of questions about the team and the Swedish element of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, have you been besieged by emails and what's apps from sailors in Sweden?
[SPEAKER_01]: Young sailors looking to be part of this new Sergei P team.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yes, but I mean, I know a lot of the Swedish sailors through the youth and women's programs, through involvement with KSSS and in the last campaign, with GKSSS as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we know a lot of, I know a lot of people within Sweden, and so a lot of people have my numbers so for sure I'm always there to be called.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they did.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is such a fantastic opportunity.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, you know, some of the highlights for me is the real excitement and motion that the youth and women teams had from being selected for the Artemis in the last campaign and then the maturity and improvement that they may do in that campaign is hugely rewarding.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think did Artemis's
[SPEAKER_02]: name within Sweden, no end of good because people realise how much art is missing, talking behind it or willing to invest in those individuals under the banner of the team.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think, look, for sure, if I was a young sweet, I would be on the phone and they have been and they're keen to be involved.
[SPEAKER_02]: And look, this still can be opportunities for being part of this team.
[SPEAKER_02]: Certainly going to be new opportunities for the youth team, too, for the next generation.
[SPEAKER_02]: not the pleasure of meeting the chart yet but it was a Swedish optimist world champion couple of years ago so there's some real young talent coming through there and
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, give me a call, I think maybe my parents might have to give me the call in that case, but give me a call and like to meet all the talent there is within Sweden, but I think I think one of the real strengths of Swedish sailing over the last five years has been the female program, obviously a Olympic level that were very credible in the America's car, but I think last campaign felt.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, smash so many of the early rounds that they'd slightly had a, didn't perform on the day as well as they could, but the truth of it is they were clearly right up there in a ability and winning the silver in the in the 49ers.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the women's, the women's,
[SPEAKER_02]: sailing scene is very strong in Sweden and certainly some young youngsters coming up too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's still a place if I'm honest, so the challenge for me back to the young Swedish sailors is, I'm yet to see someone yet really getting near the podium in a moth world, or I think it's time for some, you know, there is an opportunity in a pathway now.
[SPEAKER_02]: But personally, I need to see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to see that that being driven to that degree.
[SPEAKER_02]: First, so I'm sure it will come.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know there is, as I said, there's been some really amazing results at the under 16 level.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm looking forward to them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Proving, proving why they're gonna really be there on the international stage.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you said at the beginning of our chat that you were, the participants will be back
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, this time around in Naples.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you had told me and committed that to the club.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm to the clubs, I'm sure he's I hope you won't mind him.
[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't actually spoken about his sins, but he did mention that to the club so when he was with him so.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, look, it's
[SPEAKER_02]: It's something, let's just say it's on the cards for Adam, it's I think I think to say we're definitely doing it before we've actually seen the rules of the competition with the little bit bold, but I think I think with I personally and I know Torben thought the particularly the women's competition last time was so good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was good to watch because it's flee racing, there's a lot of action, those boats were cool, the little thwarties and look.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's completely overdue that such talented female sailors are out having a competition of that level and so I think the whole world saw that everyone thought it was a brilliant competition to watch and the standard was incredibly high.
[SPEAKER_02]: and it's just about bloody time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I think, you know, talking saw that and really supported that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's, he does that on a personal capacity.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, not certainly for me to say definitely, but I can say that he barring the rules working and he really was supportive of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it just makes me think of the, the kind of halo effect that a
[SPEAKER_01]: when they won the cup, it just became every kid's dream was to sail for a lingian.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess you guys have got the opportunity to create something similar around that in Sweden.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think that's why I took about the youngsters there, get hungry.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that opportunity might come, but you.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, time it right.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're a 16 year old now, um, when I was 16 and have in the side to be hungry in my laser, there was no possibilities.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think if you're a 16 year old talented kid now, look, I would always advocate for keeping your studies going too.
[SPEAKER_02]: But,
[SPEAKER_02]: there is an opportunity out there and there's four hours a day outside of your study where you could be training on the water and in the gym and personally representing running Artemis, I would expect that to be happening from 16 every single day.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the the opportunities undoubtedly they're just in but the hunger has to be there and with the hunger and that level of effort goes in, the results will follow and there will be a fantastic career
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I interviewed recently, Enzo Ballinger, who won the Moth Wills this time around.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I asked him, you know, is the American's cup team all over you now after the youth, he led the youth team last time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was very coy about it, but we now, since I found out he's been in the faulty driving alongside, you know, they're main Helmsman, Concern, Delapée Air.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you're right, it does open the door,
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, but there's a go back to my point about winning in cell GP.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no magic.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's doing all the little details better and to do that, you have to practice every little detail a lot of time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then you've got to have the be called under pressure and turn up if you're a game, but people like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: if one of them off world or one of them off to Miss World, they can handle pressure, they've proved that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they're doesn't shortcut you on the thousands of hours you've got to put in the Ben Ainsley put in in this laser or I did in my fin for 2000.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's what is needed to have a chance in terms of you put in America's cut.
[SPEAKER_02]: But look, there are water cubes.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's never been more, there's now two premier circuits.
[SPEAKER_02]: incredible boats, you know, huge excitement much wider than just the sailing fraternity behind this and magic opportunities.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think, look, for a 16 year old today, who's got talent, the path is pretty clear.
[SPEAKER_02]: As I said, I would always be advocating, making sure you do your studies as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if four hours a day in the summer, you should be out every single day, and you should be training very hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good clear message.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, anybody listening, you've heard it from me and straight.
[SPEAKER_01]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm not mistaken, not message.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ian, thanks so much for talking to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It really is good to have Artemis back in, or not back in surgery, people in, surgery, P, back in the high profile stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good to have you back to and Nathan.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thanks for talking to me, and we'll hopefully catch up again, maybe next season once you're bedded in a bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're gonna hold me to all those claims.
[SPEAKER_02]: That ain't just been good dog anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it for this episode of the Yacht Racing Life podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: We will be back soon with another top name interview, but in the meantime, check out Yacht RacingLife.com for more great content from across the sailing world.