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Welcome to the Wired to Lead podcast with Julia LeFevre!
Wired to Lead ep27 - Heather Howell
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Julia: [00:00:00] I'm Julia LeFevre, and around here we chat about rewiring your brain to lead with clarity, confidence, and impact. Tired of all the old leadership advice. While you're in the right place, let's get started. So let me ask you, [00:00:15] what if innovation in leadership was not just about launching products, but about reshaping entire industries? Today's guest, Heather Howell, is the CEO and President of Greater Than Where she is redefining [00:00:30] women's health and hydration with a career that includes nearly a decade of leading Jack Daniel's global innovation at Brown Foreman, where she designed a 10 year product roadmap and executed record breaking global launches. Heather [00:00:45] brings a powerful perspective on what it takes to create lasting market impact at Brave Restoration. We believe that true transformation happens when leaders break old patterns and step into new possibilities. Heather's journey [00:01:00] reflects that same belief, leading with vision, courage, and a willingness to innovate where it matters most.
Heather, welcome to the show.
Heather: Thank you, Juliet. It's a pleasure to be here.
Julia: Absolutely. Well, there's so [00:01:15] much to talk about, but wow. You started brown foreman with Jack Daniels, and this is, uh, I remember the first time I looked up, looked you up on LinkedIn and I thought, is this right? [00:01:30] Because it is such, I mean, admittedly, I went to, this is such a masculine
product and here is Heather in this space, so. How did that experience shape you? [00:01:45] What was it like to step into a space like that as a female leader?
Heather: well, very strange. It was very difficult. Um, when you work for a brand that's titled Jack Daniels. You can [00:02:00] imagine that it is extremely masculine. The customer, uh, base and the consumer target extremely masculine and the brand had not innovated in 25 years. So the role that I took on [00:02:15] was likely to be my last.
Um, it was a role that I either was able to make the innovation happen or not. Build out a innovation pipeline that had a 10 year [00:02:30] roadmap attached to it. Several of those in which I got to see launch. Um, and so it was very, very exciting, very difficult,
Julia: yeah, so you said they hadn't innovated or changed things in 25
[00:02:45] years and you know, as we know, people love change. Uh, not. And so, and here you are having to kind of initiate all of these changes. How did you make [00:03:00] it happen?
where did you even start?
Heather: it's funny 'cause whenever I speak to crowds, I always try to take nuggets, um, that I feel like. Your listeners can take with them on their journeys. This is a very easy [00:03:15] one, um, and one that I have found works extremely well. Um, but right away what I realized was. You know, we had a lot of dominant figures on Jack Daniels, and particularly when you look at a company at, of Brown Foreman, um, it's a family [00:03:30] owned business. I thought if I'm going to work on Jack Daniels, which was the engine that drove and drives Brown Foreman, I mean, it's got a lot of zeros behind it. Um, the p and l is fairly significant. It [00:03:45] is one of the most recognized, if not the most recognized whiskey globally. Um, and I was working on the global side.
Um, one of the first things I did, Julia, was. I decided I need to put my big girl slash big boy pants [00:04:00] on and, um, live at the distillery. And so I spent, um, a week or more at the actual distillery itself and went through Camp Jack Daniels and essentially wanted to get to know every single [00:04:15] part of the distillery and every part of making the, the brand that is over 150 years old and is pretty much on every.
Back bar as well as Jack and Coke is the largest bar call in the world. So, [00:04:30] um, I just kind of lived the life of, um, what it, what it's like working in every capacity at the distillery and, you know, digging in. I think anyone can do that, no matter the industry. It's difficult to be [00:04:45] passionate about things you don't know or that you're not aware.
But I think once you can get under the covers and really kind of learn the fabric of that, um, all of a sudden you become one in the, in the same. But I will say it, it was still, you know, bourbon [00:05:00] and, and I always say two industries that I'm, I'm in bourbon and banking and beverages, very male dominated.
Julia: So you said that it's hard to become passionate about something that you don't understand or haven't lived. So, [00:05:15] uh, what sparked your passion about that world?
Heather: You know, it's interesting. I, I had it. It's, you know, I. Have a background in, you know, business communications and I was working at [00:05:30] Humana at the time and I actually, uh, received a, a call and got asked to look at a company called Ruby Red Tea. And it was a, um, ready to drink bottled ROAS tea, the first ever.
So I essentially took that opportunity. I was the chief [00:05:45] tea officer there and it was a wellness brand and it was. A delicious product. It was in glass bottles. We, um, when I started, we had local distribution. We grew that brand into 50 markets, um, in the United States. So [00:06:00] all across nationwide we had distribution and that brand did exceptionally well.
There were, you know, a, a few key characters, um, that really got it to that point, but it was just true passion and energy and, um. A lot of [00:06:15] sleepless nights, but we got there and it caught the attention of Brown Foreman. How is this gal doing all of this with such a small team and able to do the PR and you know, manage this brand?
And so I, [00:06:30] I took. An offer from them. Um, you know, being a mother with two kids, it was nice to have full insurance and, and all of the things. And so I ended up working at round four. Um, but my last five years was, was basically doing the Jack [00:06:45] Daniels brand. The other five was building the emerging brands at round four.
So, yeah. Um, I've been around beverages for about, you know, 20 years now.
Julia: Okay. Well, and as you said, beverages, banking,
[00:07:00] it, it's all very male dominated. And so, you know, I know as I work with, um. Executives, and especially female executives, they wrestle. We wrestle with earning credibility while staying, also [00:07:15] staying authentic. And so I'm just curious, how did you navigate that tension in your leadership journey?
Heather: Um, one of the things that I've always said is that. We've got to stop asking women questions that we would not ask of a of a [00:07:30] man. Um, I remember being in a presentation and one of the CEOs, uh, male CEOs asked me, you know, Heather, and it was a very authentic, real question, but it was, how do you do it?
How do you balance having kids and, you know, [00:07:45] going to work and juggling all of these responsibilities? And my question back was, would you ask me that same question if I were a man? So I think one of the things we have to do in our society here, we say we want [00:08:00] inclusion and all of these things. You know, I, I can do the same thing a man can do, whether it's look at a per, uh, p and l statement or, you know, run a marketing campaign or launch the newest and, and best product.
Um, it's a [00:08:15] collection of experiences and having, uh, you know, a well-rounded, whether you have kids, no kids, whether you have four-legged kids which are pets, you know, whatever it is. I feel like, um. We just have to, we, we have to give women the same, the [00:08:30] same responsibility and make sure that they're ready for it.
I think the worst thing we can do is say, oh, we need a wom woman in this role just because we need a woman in this role. I mean, a lot of times if I do get tugged on for certain positions, again, another nugget I think any woman could [00:08:45] take away is, well, how will I add value? That's always a question that I ask.
I, I don't wanna just be the token female around the table. I wanna be a female that truly can add value based on my experience or my degree or my [00:09:00] education or in many ways. Um, you know, having had some sort of experience that would lend itself to, you know, uh, a nice ROI,
Julia: Absolutely.
Yeah. I don't know any woman who wants to [00:09:15] get a job just because of her gender that feels, uh, very dehumanizing and invalidating as a person. I mean, we want, I remember there was one boss I said, I asked, I [00:09:30] said, can you just see me as a person instead of as a woman? And it was just really difficult for, for him to do that. so with that, we are not where [00:09:45] we need to be. Um, it, it obviously was challenging to work in that type of an industry, and yet I imagine you also recognize that. That you [00:10:00] being a woman brought some strengths, and I'm just curious how, how did you feel like, um, being who you are was actually it was the best, uh, person for your role?
Heather: It is. It is. It is funny, right, because I feel [00:10:15] like. Having a woman in, in, in the position. I mean, women are the consumers, right? Women are, I mean, what we found by working in the spirits industry is that women purchase the majority of the products. Now, whether they consume them or not, I mean, you can look it [00:10:30] up.
It's, it's data and it changes every single day. But of course, it always ticks in favor of the women being the purchasers. If not any woman who goes to any type of a retail store can always listen to their husband on the phone going, now which product is it? [00:10:45] And what women have, I think this amazing, um, I always say women and and consumers buy with their eyes.
So what's so important is I feel like, you know, if you don't look like your customer and if your team doesn't look [00:11:00] like your customer sitting around the table designing a product, then you know you might wanna reevaluate that. And so that's one of the things, leading in that space has always been let's do our data, let's do our insights.
And I guarantee anybody [00:11:15] listening today can say shopper data. Who are the consumers and how many are purchasing male or female? In the retail stores, you're gonna see that the majority are women. So I think that that has always proven to be, and then of course, having the [00:11:30] marketing background and understanding qualitative and quantitative insights.
I mean, even if it's a college kid listening today that wants to kind of be above their peers, know what those two things are, understand what it takes. A lot of times I'll [00:11:45] say, Hey, I'm, uh, I'm not the consumer. Um, so let's do some insights. Let's find out what younger generation, gen Z, gen y Gen, what, depending on who you're selling, what do they want, what do they need?
A lot of times I think, um, [00:12:00] marketers and executives say, well, we've always done it this way. And you can imagine being with a 25-year-old brand that says, you know, we've always done it this way. That was, that was very difficult. Um, and, and I will say I earned my stripes there because [00:12:15] everything that I innovated has now hit shelves.
Little do they know, of course the woman behind the story, but it's nice now to be able to talk about that and the trials and tribulations of getting there. Um, especially with such a competitive market that, you [00:12:30] know, during the time I was there that whiskey and, and you know, bourbon was and still is. I mean, there is.
There are so many products out there and so you know, what are the five P's of marketing to those youngsters that are listening? And really [00:12:45] those five P's are absolutely important and you can't ignore one without the other. So it's, I think you've really gotta understand and have the experience and the education, but then you've also gotta understand when you cut out and let the [00:13:00] insights and let that consumer demographic really tell the story on the packaging.
You can, you can have a beautiful package, but if the product doesn't taste well or um, hits wrong in some way, they won't come [00:13:15] back and purchase.
Julia: Right. So really I hear you saying that you know, your unique perspective
as a woman helped give insight into what the primary consumer or [00:13:30] purchaser was looking for, but also it. It also lent kind of insight into exploring and learning what other demographics are going to want and need. And, and so anyone [00:13:45] who's wanting to innovate, we need to remember, it's not about us, it, it's about who our clients are going to be, who, who the customer is, and what they want.
Heather: You're so right. I mean, like when we were [00:14:00] growing up, you know, you think about it, you walk down the beverage aisle, you walk down the whiskey aisle. And, and even at that point there were, you know, maybe five or six brands. Well, you walk down any one of those aisles today and you know, you look at just [00:14:15] the energy drinks, you look at the canned beverages, which now we all know, we're always, you know, made for a carbonated beverage.
And now you're seeing more and more people because they're, you know, easier and. Sustainable, um, you know, crack in and we're used to [00:14:30] non-carbonated in a slick can. So, you know, there's just so many different things I think that have evolved and, and have changed and, you know, think of AI and what that's doing as well.
I mean, we've grown up through fax machines, through [00:14:45] Google, through ai, through, you know, dating on Tinder and apps and everything else. And it's, uh, it's, it's really amazing. So you, you can't ever be stuck. You have to consistently be open, you know, how does my brand look on a screen versus [00:15:00] on the shelf?
Because many brands today will never make it to the shelf. They're so successful. D two C. So, you know, we've gone through a pandemic and that of course has changed so many things. So, you know, I go back to is that, you know, women just. And me in [00:15:15] particular, I think just have such a creative side that I'm able to unleash that, um, working in CPG and creating products that, you know, my goal is always to connect with that, with the consumer and, and make sure [00:15:30] that they're, along with, with us on this journey.
Julia: Yeah. And now, uh, you've shifted toward a health-focused startup. And I'm just curious, uh, tell us a little bit about [00:15:45] what you're doing
Heather: Yeah, it's, it's such a cool thing. I, you know, got out of the, the whiskey world and the A BV space, and I realized, I, I kinda saw it while I was there. Is that, you know, we've got this new generation and even myself, you know, I'm a division one [00:16:00] athlete. I'm a big competitor. I love. Sports and, uh, still to this day have a trainer and, and, and play, you know, the sport that I grew up loving and, you know, that's volleyball.
Uh, but I think one of the things, [00:16:15] um, is you know, never losing sight of what gets you up in the morning and. Makes you super passionate. If, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. And that's, that's true. And so one of the things that I did is [00:16:30] I did a SWOT analysis on myself. You know, what are my strengths, my weaknesses, what are the opportunities, what are the threats?
And I did see that there was. Quite a dip in alcohol sales, mainly because I think kids today, everything's on a camera. Why have one bad night or [00:16:45] something that you know occurs? And we all know that there's, you know, strengths and weaknesses with, you know, any industry that you work in. But I do think that.
Kids today and, and teens today and, and young adults are very much into [00:17:00] health and wellness. And so I really made a pivot back to a space that I love and that is health and wellness. So a 15-year-old brand, I work on a. A brand called Greater Than and was able to come in, was hired on by their investor team.[00:17:15]
And we have, uh, I, I almost don't even wanna give you the website yet, but in January we'll be kind of relaunching something that um, I've been working on for two years. And, uh, I hope to be back on this podcast 'cause I can kind of release it and, and [00:17:30] talk so much more about it. But it is 100% geared towards women, women's health.
Hydration and um, you know, I am thrilled beyond words to have a space on the shelf [00:17:45] dedicated to women's and women's health. And hydration.
Julia: It's, it's, and you know, it's a similar industry, but also very different, almost polar
opposite. Yeah, I'm, I'm [00:18:00] curious, are there some ways that using, you're using the same leadership muscles,
and which ones are you having to kind of readjust and build
Heather: Yeah, it's, it's a great, I mean, obviously I, I had Ruby Red [00:18:15] Tea and then, you know, moved into Brown Foreman, which for 10 years was, you know, essentially high-end, um, premium spirits. And then I, I moved out and really, you know, like I said, carved out a niche here that I'm extremely excited about. [00:18:30] And I would say some of the things that I've continued to, to be consistent throughout is people.
You get people around you who are stronger in areas that you're weak. Um, as you get older, you start to recognize [00:18:45] what areas you're very good at and what areas you're weak. I think a great leader is somebody who can say, I'm not good at this, so I'm gonna hire the best person and let them run with this.
Um, and so one of the things I've always done is have [00:19:00] advisory councils, advisory boards, people around me who, you know, we all have each other's back. And I think at the end of the day, you know, I talked about a brand tasting delicious. I'm very big into that, right? It's gotta be phenomenal in order for me to work on the [00:19:15] brand.
But I think the other thing that probably trumps that even more is that you've gotta have the right people, because the right people will sniff out whether a brand is tasting the right way, might have some off notes, whatnot. But, you know, you, you, [00:19:30] you cannot, I cannot stress the importance of having a council of people that are there and you know, it's like I had a conversation the other day.
We were talking about Pantone colors, so colors and shades on our new [00:19:45] product, and the head of innovation and commercialization called me and said, oh my gosh, Heather, I might've made a mistake. I think this is too. And I said, Hey, we've got your back. We're a culture of caring. I'm just glad that you brought this to our attention.
And sure enough, like [00:20:00] four or five hours later, she goes, crisis averted. The team helped me out and we got everything settled and we can move on and move past it. But it's, to me, that's what's so important is creating a culture where people can be, you know, bring, bring their, and, and people [00:20:15] say this all the time at corporate, I never had photos of my kids, my family, I was always afraid people would say, oh, Heather's married to a doctor, she doesn't need this, this pay raise.
Which, you know, in the past I've heard, oh, Heather has kids. We can't ask her to go on this trip. [00:20:30] Oh, Heather has. So I think, I think it's different for men than it is for women. I, I, I, I'll say that because I've, I've, I've been there, I've had women who have come to my office before and said, I'm expecting, um, but I'm gonna [00:20:45] work just as hard as anybody else.
And the question I have for them is one of the baby's room colors. Where are you registered? And is your husband having the same conversation that you're having with me right now at their employer?
And let's figure out the day, the best day [00:21:00] that we can give you a baby shower and send you off and, and make sure that you and your family are, are, you know, ready for, for the most, most challenging part of life, being a working mother and a working [00:21:15] father.
Um, so, you know, I just think, I think, you know, a well-rounded way to put that is, you know. The, the things that I've learned are that people are, are number one, and whether it's male or female, you make sure to give [00:21:30] everybody a soft landing 'cause that's when they're able to be their best.
Julia: I love hearing you say that because you know our brains are wired. To need safety, and not just physical safety, but relational [00:21:45] safety, connective safety. And so leaders who understand that and who prioritize that are actually going to get more from their employees because their brain isn't spending so [00:22:00] much time. Worrying. I mean, even that employee that came to you and said, I'm expecting she was probably spending all this time and energy worrying that, yay. Kudos to her for coming [00:22:15] and just telling you. But then you had this amazing opportunity to set those fears at rest. The more you can pro produce and provide a culture that will continue [00:22:30] to give people safety. I mean, psychological safety is a big buzzword out there right now. But it's true, and it's something that that matters and it's worth spending a little bit extra to cover [00:22:45] someone's maternity leave or paternity leave. Right? You are going to get dividends back, um, from just from being able to provide that support, that relational support.
Heather: And I, I've [00:23:00] been where she's been or you know, he has been. And so I think it's really important, the response. And I think that's the importance of a good leader too, right? Is we've all worked for those leaders where you just feel like you're walking on eggshells. And, you know, I, I've had, I have [00:23:15] never left a company, but I've left leadership I will say I've had some doozies in my career, but they've taught me probably more because it's taught me what not to do or how not to to act, and I think that that people wake up every single day, [00:23:30] and it's my job to make sure, I mean, I've hired the person, right? I've signed the offer letter, so it's ultimately my responsibility.
And I'm, I'm, I step up to the plate every single time I make mistakes just like they do, and I call it out, you know? Um, [00:23:45] but I think at the end of the day, we are all in this together, and, and that is something that. You know, I think is absolutely, you have to walk the walk and talk the talk, you know, and, um, that's culture, you know, is, is, is absolutely [00:24:00] critical.
And it's, it's things that are lacking. Um, but I just make sure you've gotta kind of lead that from the top. And that's in anything, right? That anybody can take that nugget away. Just, you know, wake up and be excited. I mean, everyone, you know, remembers that person [00:24:15] who, when you're giving a presentation or you've got this big moment.
Wasn't clapping when you got to the stage, you know they weren't paying attention. They were on their phone and the way that that made you feel when you were up at the podium. Just remember that and don't be that person. Like clap louder than [00:24:30] any one of your friends
and you know, be that person if you have their birthday and you know.
Wish them a happy birthday before every, it is just the little things, you know, that go a really long way. And it in a world of, like I talked about, AI and technology, [00:24:45] um, you know, just reach out and, you know, maybe have a phone call and say, I don't, don't pick up the phone. You don't have to call me back. I was just thinking about you.
And, uh, I, I do that a lot to my employees. I want them to call me and I wanna know them beyond just. Hey, we [00:25:00] gotta get these numbers in. They all know that. They're all smart enough. They're smarter than me, but it's, it's, they come to work because they wanna have peace. At the end of the day, they wanna go home and feel peace and feel safety.
And in a world today where you can, you know, Julia, you and I [00:25:15] have, have spoken about the world that is today. It's very different. And so if you can give people a place where they can be creative and not laughed at, or. Bring a crazy idea to the table and it be trumpeted with an even crazier idea. You know, [00:25:30] that's how big dreams.
Who would've thought Facebook? Who would've thought people would be dating online? It's those crazy ideas that become the next big, big thing. So don't miss it. You know, that that's, that's one of the things, I mean, [00:25:45] so many things that we did like putting Jack Daniels and Sherry, you know, ASO cast.
And, and having a blue label on Jack when everything was black. It was like, oh my God, you know what? That never happens. And so we were like, [00:26:00] well, that's 'cause it's not a Jack Daniels whiskey. We're paying homage to. Scot scotch, essentially. So we've gotta follow their cues and their flavor cues and the ways in which they use their pantones and their shades.
So, you know, it's, [00:26:15] it's also making people understand the why. Um, I think is also really critical.
Julia: I would guess that when you were in some of those conversations and you would bring these ideas and people would [00:26:30] have this fear response that. It, it may, I mean, the potential was there for you to have a triggered reaction, no response to their trigger. And I'm [00:26:45] just curious what, um, what did you have to work on in those spaces to be able to stay grounded so that it didn't just become this stress response cycle where one person's triggering another [00:27:00] and rounding around we go.
Heather: So I have some really cool examples. One in banking and then, you know, one in Jack. And I remember, you know, looking at old bottles and I, I [00:27:15] realized, you know, back way in the day, Jack Daniels actually had packages that had aged jack on 'em. So 10 years was the very first one. So we pieced together. Um. You know, just through [00:27:30] archivists and things like that, who actually had old Jack Daniels bottle, um, the distinctive assets from that package.
And, you know, just the amount of time that I spent just with the design team and that kind of thing, who today are still very close friends and I, [00:27:45] I, I just give them so much of the credit as well, but the amount of time, and I remember sharing that and um, I received an email later and they said, you know, Heather, you.
You know, you could be fired for this because the only number that goes on Jack Daniels is number [00:28:00] seven Old. Number seven, of which even today, nobody knows what that stands for. Several people have said he had seven girlfriends, Jack Daniels did, and it was old number seven with all of his seven ladies that he courted.
Um, [00:28:15] and there's a million different kind of. Detailss about, you know, what that seven was, but, you know, just, just being told those types of things. It was, it was hard enough to do the job that I had. That's where a legacy brand, you know, and I, and I [00:28:30] understood it because you know a lot of people that they, they have a lot of love when it comes to a brand like that and their jobs and things like that are all counting on that.
And what I did when I was in that role was I really pushed the [00:28:45] envelope and I remember sitting at, at, at a board meeting once and I said, Hey. It's okay. We don't have to innovate. We haven't innovated in 25 years. We can continue to wait another 25 and we'll see where we're at on the stock exchange. So we gotta continue to innovate and [00:29:00] you gotta push.
That's why Apple comes out with a new phone every single day. We're in a world today that is very different and that's because we can get things at a click of a button. So you know, we can stay back and live our legacy. That's fine. Or we can continue to [00:29:15] push forward and try and see what happens. And these launches became the biggest launches out of Jack and they also premiumized the brand because the brand has beautiful whiskey and a wonderful story behind it that I think [00:29:30] kind of, it just needed that extra push and that premium push.
The other is in, is in banking. Um, we just started something called the, the Women's Initiative at Republic Bank, and I've been on that board for over a decade and. You know, I think [00:29:45] one of the things that I have consistently seen in my time as an entrepreneur, as a female who's owned equity in businesses is, you know, what does a line of credit mean?
Like, it's, it's, you don't wanna be embarrassed. You don't wanna be that person at the table, [00:30:00] you know, whether you're female or male who doesn't understand these things, you know? Um. Today, you know, someone can take every penny out of your bank account because we've got incredibly savvy folks out there every day who act like they're your banker and have a voice recording [00:30:15] of, you know, so it's like you hear all of these terrible things, but they're really out there.
And so, you know, right now we had one of our first events and it was about AI and how to use ai, and we had one of Microsoft's females come and speak to us. It was [00:30:30] sold out men and women at every table. Um, and, and really what that says is, you know, we also need to speak to the women who are creating a lot of the content, um, behind these brands.
We need to make sure that women who are out on their own [00:30:45] understand banking the necessities of banking and aren't. Aren't fearful of calling and everyone saying, can you believe that Heather didn't know what a line of credit is? Can you believe that? Um, but a safe place to um, kind of open your doors and get the [00:31:00] education and you know, they have a new campaign called Thrive and Your Time to Thrive.
And, and you know, I said, you know, if you can make banking easy, it will allow us to thrive because that's. So important. And I'll tell you the beautiful thing is both the chairman and the CEO, both [00:31:15] men, um, you know, have a ton of knowledge in the banking space have been what do you need? How can we help you?
And that to me has been such a welcome response. From the world I've come from. So it's [00:31:30] just lovely. And the investors I have today, they're just, Heather, what do you need? How can we champion you? We're so proud of you. Keep going. You know, sometimes women just need to be told that, um, their ideas matter and that, you know, now you look at it [00:31:45] and the majority of folks that are going into entrepreneurship.
Again, another nugget for your listeners are women.
So you've gotta meet 'em where they are because they're gonna be your Sarah Blakely of Spanx. You know, they, they're going to come up with [00:32:00] ideas that are gonna be billion dollar ideas. So, um, I think if you get on, on the ground floor and you're supportive and you train and you network and you give women tools, you know, uh, you can't be what you don't see.
So if there's so many men at the top, [00:32:15] you know, women will just go out on their own and be the next billionaire. It, it is happening.
Julia: It, it is, and I've seen it, man. I go to a lot of networking events and it's mostly women and [00:32:30] I think there is a sense of I couldn't fit in a certain world, so I'm gonna go create my own. And yet at the, you know, we don't wanna. Turn this into all men are [00:32:45] bad because really it's the men that you just were referring to who are in those leadership positions, who are, they're the first supporters and they're the ones that are coming alongside and financing and [00:33:00] offering support and education and, and I imagine that those, that's the world, I think that most women are desiring just. A level of partnership where men and [00:33:15] women can be seen as, uh, as people who have great ideas and can work together to make our world a better place.
Heather: It's so true. It's so true. I I don't think there's any other cherry on the top of this [00:33:30] interview that you could put, um, because it takes both of us and, you know, the best bosses I've ever had predominantly have been men. It's because they have given me the microphone and allowed me an opportunity to stand up at the [00:33:45] podium and be the first one to applaud the hard work and the dedication and the passion and the education, you know, that we have to go through in order to kind of get there.
I always tell anybody, and another nugget is no one can take your education away. So for those of [00:34:00] that are in school, I'm like. Push yourself. Nobody's gonna say, oh, you didn't have a 4.0 or you didn't have a four point whatever. You weren't in honors classes. Think of some of the best entrepreneurs in the world.
Didn't actually maybe go and get their masters or get their [00:34:15] PhD or you know. But I think at the end of the day, they had someone behind them that was championing them. And you know, one of the things that I love about the CEO and the president, that both men, is that, you know. What what is truly inspiring and amazing to [00:34:30] me is they bring their wives to events and you know, it's, it is just so cool to kind of see and, and how proud they are of the women.
So it's, it's fueling this fire internally of, you know, oh my gosh, such and such just landed this loan. That's so [00:34:45] great. And so everyone's kind of cheering internally as well. Either for the client or, hey, you know, Lisa just celebrated 30 years at the bank. Isn't that amazing? And so everybody's sending heart emojis and you know, it's just, it just creates this [00:35:00] culture of belonging and that, you know, you've got this whole support network of men and women working together, and I think that's the magic.
Julia: Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. And I mean, it just, it's making my brain and my body happy right now [00:35:15] and you know, like the happy goosebumps.
Heather: I totally, I totally agree. I mean, it's, it's, it's never the Disney happy ending all of the time, but, you know, I really do believe that as women, just to summarize kind of what I've said, maybe some of the golden nuggets is [00:35:30] have an advisory council. Surround yourself with people and, and don't be afraid to not be good at everything.
Champion those around you who are great at numbers and love to look at a p and l and dissect data and margins and figures. As long as they can give you the tools [00:35:45] and you know enough to be dangerous. I think that's critical, but surround yourself with the right people, and I think so many other things is love what you do.
If you find that opportunity, and it may not be the industry, but you'll learn to love it. Get in there, learn as [00:36:00] much as you possibly can, and really lean on the people who do have the experience. You know, you're not gonna come in and be CEO the first day, but the amount of people there that are willing to put you under their wing and give you the microphone will eventually lead you to [00:36:15] a very high level position and, and, you know, short order.
So, you know, I really do believe that. Every single thing that any young kid or teen or growing adult or even experienced individual [00:36:30] walks in, it's all about having the right attitude, being positive and cheering for folks, even though it may not be you up there winning the big award, they'll remember who was there cheering.
Julia: Yeah, absolutely. I [00:36:45] love that picture. And really it's a picture of connected community. That's safe and flourishing. And that's, I mean, even from, again, a neurological standpoint, that's the ideal. So if you're gonna invest in [00:37:00] something, invest in a culture that creates that,
and you will get the most out of your people.
so
Heather: It's so true. I mean, everybody wants to wake up and be excited about going to work. So, you know, it's [00:37:15] our jobs as leaders to get those, the, the, the most you can out of the right and left side of the brain. So, you know, just encourage it. It's, it's not hard to be nice.
Julia: It doesn't cost a whole lot, does it? I mean, it's [00:37:30] it's a pretty cost efficient way of running business, so,
Heather: It really, really is.
Julia: Heather.
Heather: Thank you.
Julia: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for being on here, and we can definitely do this again [00:37:45] when you're ready to really push things out with greater than. But
thank you so much for just sharing your expertise with us.
Heather: it's an honor. Thank you, Julia.
Julia: All right, everyone. We'll see you next time.