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Interesting people, insightful points of view and incredible stories on what’s popping and not popping in marketing, tech, and culture you can use to win immediately. Brands, Beats and Bytes boldly stands at the intersection of brand, tech and culture. DC and Larry are fascinated with stories and people behind some of the best marketing in the business. No matter how dope your product, if your marketing sucks your company may suck too. #dontsuck
LT: Hey, Brand Nerds back at you with a new What's Popping version of Brands, Beats and Bytes. This is our first pre Super Bowl edition. We have done post Super Bowl podcasts before, but we thought it would be really cool for us to provide our Brand Nerds what we think you should be looking for prior to the game.
When you see all of those Super Bowl ads that, by the way, are currently going for around 8 million a spot for 30 seconds, but we'll get more into that as we get into this. So think of this podcast as your Super Bowl countdown show marketing edition. Unfortunately, DC is on a client assignment and can't be with us today.
Uh, but with DC out, we are bringing in the big guns, man, in both a known quantity who has been a great prior guest on Brands Beats and Bytes, and candidly, someone who is unmatched in knowing the ins and outs of the Super Bowl from an advertising media point of view. He's been to 19 Super Bowls, so he may have a few stories.
That person is none other than our great friend, Tim Spengler. Welcome, Tim.
Tim Spengler: Larry, great to be here. Thanks for having me. This is going to be fun.
LT: Big fun. It's going to be big fun. Okay. So, we encourage you, Brand Nerds, to go back and listen to album 2, track 4, if you haven't listened already, which is Tim's first appearance on the podcast, where we go through his wonderful career.
The Twitter version is that Tim is one of the most respected and accomplished C Suite media execs. Currently with Peter Costco, shout out to Peter, Tim is co founder and managing partner of Scale Team Advisory, a consulting firm where they partner with media, entertainment, sports and related tech businesses to support their growth objectives.
Prior to this, Tim led the very successful media agency initiative and also was CEO of Magna Global, literally heading up media buying for interpublic around the world. That's big time Brand Nerds. He was also the president of Revenue Strategy and Content Marketing at iHeartMedia and president of M1US for the Dentsu Aegis Network.
This means he has vast experience managing teams, planning and buying big events like the Super Bowl for numerous clients. All right, Tim. So I'm gonna get some, uh, some, hit you with some few questions about some of the background so we get into more depth. Does that sound good?
Tim Spengler: Sounds good. I'm ready.
LT: So Tim, how many of your clients over the years bought ads in the Super Bowl?
About how many?
Tim Spengler: Uh, yeah, like, uh, seven or eight, 10, eight, something like that. Upwards of 10.
LT: Gotcha. Okay. So that's a lot. And, and those are, and what's cool about that Brand Nerds is that when you have that many different clients in the Super Bowl, there's many different reasons that clients are in the Super Bowl.
And so I couldn't see in all different ways of that, right, Tim?
Tim Spengler: Yeah, that's absolutely, that's exactly right. What is the objective? Why are you plunking down that much money? And by category and by situation at that time? Yep.
LT: Yep, exactly. All right. So, uh, so Tim, over the years, do you know about how many ads you have bought in place in the Superbowl?
Again, roughly?
Tim Spengler: Uh, yeah, our teams, I, our teams have, I would say 50 plus, not a hundred and I can't claim a hundred, but I would say north of 50 for sure.
LT: Well, that's a lot to say the least, this is somebody that really knows his way around here. Okay. So, um, what's the best client story late related to the Super Bowl? Can you hit us with that?
Tim Spengler: Sure. Um, I will tell one fun story. Give me a minute, but it unfolds in it with a good ending. So, um, most people, if you hear the phrase, the wardrobe malfunction, you would
LT: Give a little background to that.
Tim Spengler: Absolutely, you would remember that that was the whole halftime scenario. with Janet Jackson and Justin Timberlake. Yep. In the Houston Super Bowl of 2004.
LT: Wow. So that's more than 20 years ago. That's crazy.
Tim Spengler: Yeah. Yeah. Right. I know exactly. And they weren't the only performers. Diddy was there. Nelly was there, et cetera, et cetera, but they closed it. Janet Jackson's second song, Justin Timberlake.
The song was rock your body. And, um, the reason that I'm bringing this up as my story is because our client AOL was the halftime sponsor.
LT: Wow.
Tim Spengler: It was the AOL Top Speed, that was their product, their dial up content product. AOL Top Speed Halftime Reports. Presented by MTV. So it was an MTV content production.
Like it's Apple music now, right? Right. It was weekend. Right. And it was AOL top speed. So when the wardrobe malfunction happened. At the right at the end of the halftime. Did AOL just present porn to America? This is before it was as readily available.
LT: That's right.
Tim Spengler: Okay, now.
LT: Wait, Tim, we just have to say for Brand Nerds who are younger. So the, the wardrobe malfunction is that, um, let's just say that, uh, that Janet bared, uh, um, some of, some of her breasts. Uh, that was on live television at the time to be very sorry
Tim Spengler: To that part, a. k. a. nipple gate. Yes, you can look up any of that and you'll see it. Um, so AOL was our client? One of our bigger clients and we were in review and we were going to lose it because the senior client wanted he had other ideas. His team loved us, but he had other ideas. Okay, so I'm in already. It's not great. It's one of our biggest clients. And so when the shit hit the fan with AOL's now just presenting porn to America, and by the way, we had four spots in the game, and there was a little question of did they run out of order and whose fault was it?
AOL was not telling us, they were not telling a story where it had to go A, B, C, D, like you gave something away and the second one should have come forth. It wasn't that bad, but still, the client had an order and he thought it was going to be a different order. He's furious about this, now he's worried about that.
LT: Okay. So did you literally get calls and texts when the order wasn't right at that point?
Tim Spengler: Oh yeah. The whole time. And I'm in a suite. I've been, you know, many games. This is the only time I was ever in a suite because I had to be able to watch everything I had. I was at the game. I had to be able to watch the TV at the same time.
So Oh, yeah. And you know, we hadn't had cell phones that long in 2004, so he's all over me. It ain't good already. The situation is not good. We were there all week because he was the half time sponsor. That's a deal with the league as well as the network. So you're part of the action. What's going to happen? You're going to show this. They're going to show. So we're in trouble. I'm in a foxhole. I'm trapped in a foxhole. Just in trouble. And I don't know, the network doesn't know whose fault it was on the spots running out of order. And then what happened in the content, which nobody was happy of everyone's afraid.
They knew that this guy was very tough and that I went, that our agencies in review, they felt bad for me. And, um, I was just sort of gasping at straws. Is there anything you can do to help me? I mean, look, what's happening. Yeah, we're going to, we're working on it. We let's let us see, let's see, we'll, you know, we'll try. And then. The game's getting closer. It was the game where the Patriots beat the Panthers.
LT: Okay, that was a good game, actually.
Tim Spengler: Yep, Cam Newton was the Panther quarterback, obviously one of Tom's
LT: Oh, that wasn't Cam Newton. That was before Cam Newton.
Tim Spengler: Oh, it was before the Cam Newton game, was it?
LT: Yeah, Cam Newton was 2010. I forget who the Panthers quarterback It was somebody who we don't even remember anymore.
Tim Spengler: I forget. Look at your good Carolina IQ. So, um, Game's getting closer. He's, he's mad at the world, the client. He's also a little worried. His tone got a little different than just angry, a little worried. And so they come back to me, like middle of the fourth quarter.
Remember, this happened like 45 minutes ago. I mean, it's still, nobody can believe what, did that just happen? Did they just, who saw that? Who didn't see it? How many seconds was it on? All that stuff. And, um, and they said, okay, if two things happen, we get an extra 60 seconds. In the game. Wow. All the timeouts are exhausted and then there's an injury timeout and something else and this may happen.
If that happens, I thought we might get a billboard or something. If that happens, we'll give AOL one of the spots because we don't even know what the heck is going on here. Right? Usually the networks are pretty much control of these. million dollar decisions
LT: and wait. So Tim, just to be clear. So you guys had four spots and what they're saying is if that happens, if you get an extra 60 seconds, they're going to give you another spot.
So you get five total spots, right?
Tim Spengler: That's right. Another 30. That's right. They give another 30. So what is key code? What code do you want to run? If that does happen, right? My God, call the client. I can't promise you we might. So the things happened. We get a free spot at the two minute warning of one of the closer games ever.
LT: And Jake Delorme was the quarterback, right? By the way.
Tim Spengler: Okay, nice. Nice. You know, 100, you know, 100 million people, whatever viewing that certainly at that moment is a crescendo of the game. Um, my phone ran out of juice there. I don't remember chargers back then. Again, on the bus on the way back to the hotel.
He was still all up in arms, and I reminded him what we just did. Do you know what that took? He kind of thanked me. We go back to the office the next week. He has been removed from his position. Wow. We saved the account, because the team didn't want to put us in review. Right. We saved the account, hundreds of millions of dollar account.
And then, the next week, or sometime around then, the CEO of our holding company, Interpublic, a 40, 000 person global company, Gets walked into my office to shake my hand and say, congrats. He then is David Bell and he is one of my mentors to this day. I'd have to say that's my best Super Bowl story.
LT: That's a, that's a great story, man.
That that's so cool. I'm glad you shared that. That's really, that's really, uh,
Tim Spengler: Oh, and by the way, the client gave me a trophy. The world's greatest make good. I have it somewhere in my house. I don't know, but the Derek Koenig and the guys at AOL made a trophy up for me. And you know, blah, blah, blah. And I saved it was in my office, of course.
So yeah, it was, it was quite a thing.
LT: That's, that's so cool. All right.
Any other, any other clients that you could think of or that you want to share anything interesting about?
Tim Spengler: You know, just, just one quick one. People forget like, you know, Genesis is its own thing now. It's an upscale car. When we, we had Hyundai and all the cars had gotten out of the Super Bowl, kind of like this year.
And we had our first year with Hyundai and Kia. And, you know, same overall overall holding company that has them and we convinced we told them they need to be in the big events in a certain way and they had the right creative they wanted. And so we brought them back in and started to change the perception of Hyundai.
There was a number of things that they mostly the ads and we did support in media to get them to behave like a leader and start acting different. And the first thing they did. Was go into the Super Bowl and and they did a lot of other things and now now the Hyundai Genesis is so important and respected that it's its own label.
There's Hyundai Kia and Genesis. It's not a Hyundai Genesis anymore. You know,
LT: I know it's it's it's a bit Lexus. They're really sort of Lexus like, um, which which is really interesting that you were at the epicenter of that. All right. Yeah. I know that you have something else here that I'd love the Brand Nerds to hear.
So, um, have you, have you been involved in anything with a client that has never been done before in the Super Bowl from a media standpoint?
Tim Spengler: Well, I mean, it's a small one, I guess. We, um, actually, here's the funny part about it. So, uh, it was a New Orleans story. Actually, we'll talk. New Orleans is a special, special place for the Super Bowl.
We have the net, you know, there every year there's another way to monetize something. And the league adds another week, right? There's seven weeks now. All right, everyone can still play 16 games, but we get another week of GRPs, another week of revenue. So they're always looking for that. So they create
LT: Wait, Tim, I want to point out to the Brand Nerds. What happened is, Brand Nerds, they added another week with the bye/. And, and so, you can see that it's under the auspices from the NFL. Well, the players, you know, player safety, they need to have a bye. In a year. No, no, no, Brand Nerds, always go to the money. It gave them a whole other week to have NFL, NFL regular season game.
So what Tim is saying that increases the inventory for by one week, which is a huge thing. So go ahead, Tim.
Tim Spengler: Yeah, exactly. Thank you. Um, So we were, we were made aware of a position we, we, we were looking to showcase actually the company Yahoo was, uh, again, this is, this is now, you know, early two thousands trying to become what it didn't become as a destination portal.
Yep. And, uh, and so Yahoo was the client. They were looking for a breakthrough opportunity. And with the network was created the first Super Bowl pre kick spot. That means coin toss. Everyone's on their, everyone's on the couch at this point, right? The game's about to start. Coin toss, 30 second ad, standalone.
Yahoo, right? Kickoff.
LT: Wow.
Tim Spengler: And it was like two thirds of the cost, but it was a standalone spot or you know, right before the kickoff and . 'cause technically it's not in game, Tim.
LT: Is that why it's two thirds?
Tim Spengler: Technically it's not in game.
LT: Got it.
Tim Spengler: And, and by the way, um, when you guys are watching the game, there's a thing called the Shield.
That's when they show the logo and they have the marching drum. They have the shield before the game starts and right after the game starts. Right. Once you're inside of that, every single second has been legally discussed. Prior to that, they can do whatever they want. They can have guys eating hamburgers on the sidelines, talking on their cell phone.
It doesn't matter. Once you're inside the shield and you guys are going to see it, you guys see it when you, whether you notice it or not. So this was just before that. Outside the games, like two thirds, the cost big rating. And the funny thing was the account executive. And I actually confirmed that with him, the account executive, Mark Evans at the time, the AE for Fox on the West coast, which is where we were based, our agency is now the president of sales for Fox.
LT: That's funny. That's very cool. That that's really cool. That's a great story. And Brand Nerds. This is the kind of thing that creative media folks like Tim who are really on it. You know, carve out something that wasn't there before, and you can argue that that spot, Tim, is worth a lot more than the spots at the end of the game if it's a blowout, as an example.
Like, everybody's tuning in to the beginning.
Tim Spengler: I always love the when, the exact moment. What's the consumer doing at that exact second? Well, everyone's pretty much sat down. The kickoff's in about 10 seconds. Can't go to the bathroom with that 30, you know, so so I you know, we felt it was a good place.
It's awesome.
LT: All right.
So anything else you want to add before we go to the next segment?
Tim Spengler: No, I don't think so.
LT: Okay. All right Brand Nerds, so we're gonna get into you know, Tim. We're so lucky to have Tim here We're gonna get into Super Bowl 59 The key stats and where the key stats again, as we alluded to at the beginning, this is from the advertising point of view.
Okay. So, um, when you think about those things that we want you to get ready when you're looking at this. So, um, so. We're just going to think about, uh, some of the things that you think that we think you should be cognizant of. So, Tim, hit us with some key stats that you think are important for the Brand Nerds.
Tim Spengler: Yes, sure. Some of these have been written about a lot and some have not. So, it's going to be the biggest day in the history of a network. 700, approximately 700 million dollars. of ad revenue on the day.
LT: Think about that. And that's for Fox Sports, Tim, Brand Nerds, just to be clear.
Tim Spengler: Fox sports, exactly, for Fox. It is the fastest selling, sell, fastest sellout ever. They really were sold out in November. The networks all say that. They actually were. Right. It's 80 plus spots in the game, which is more than usual. We'll get to that. Uh, this started out at about seven and a half million was what the ask was for the game.
If you've got more spots or some other reasons why it might have been less, but call it seven and a half and you needed a three million dollar media match. You can't just buy a spot. You have to also give us three million dollars more of negotiated media in other Fox properties. That was the ingoing starting. That's is what sold them out. Okay.
LT: So let's be clear, Tim. So let's repeat this back. So they're starting. What did you say? Seven and a half. Is that what you started? Okay. Yeah. So 7. 5 Brand Nerds. That's the, what, what you're, you're gonna pay for 30 seconds and oh, by the way, you can't just get that seven and a half million 30 second, you also have to commit to another three, three million. So that's 10 and a half million going to Fox. In some other way before you can even think about getting on the air. I have that right, Tim.
Tim Spengler: That's right. That's right. And there were and and there were people lined up after that to do that. Now, here's here's the interesting things. Two things. One, they have a certain number of spots.
They're contracted that they can air during the game with the league. That's it. Okay.
LT: The league tells them that?
Tim Spengler: So that's part of the negotiation for the rights to. You know, these guys do 10 year, 7 year league deals, all the networks, each one knows what Super Bowl they're going to get, each one knows the terms of that Super Bowl, and oh yeah, all that's, all that's been negotiated in the original multi year contract.
LT: And, and Brand Nerds I just want to share, that's a key point that Tim made. The reason that happens is because the NFL doesn't want to leave it to the networks because then there would be a timeout at every stoppage, so they, they want there to be a flow of the game.
Yeah, exactly. They're going to be in control of this.
Tim Spengler: Uh, and they are with all the regular season games too. How many spots can you get? Now, here's the thing though. If you sell out, you can come back to us. You networks can call us and discuss adding spots. And we will listen and it's a 50 50 rev share on any spots added. They added six spots. My sources are telling me six were added to the game with a 50 50 rev share to the network and to the league.
LT: Right.
Tim Spengler: And so at eight mil, at the eight mil,
LT: right,
Tim Spengler: then 8 million match of media.
LT: So keep, so explain what that means.
Tim Spengler: So just like the three million now, it's instead of three million, eight, you've got so eight million for that spot. And by the way, here's the spot. Here's where we're going to put it.
Because when you buy a spot in the game, you know exactly what break in what, in what quarter, what break, in what position in the pod, A, B, C, D, E, and who else is in the pod. You're going to know all that before you're going to go to your client, if you're a client or an agency, and make that decision. Okay, so here's where it's going to run.
Eight million for that. We need another eight million of negotiated media. You can run it in Fox Sports, you can run it in Fox News, you can run it in Fox Prime, you can run it on Tubi. We'll figure, you know, we'll determine that so and that's and the network keeps so that that that happened with six extra spots.
LT: Wow,
Tim Spengler: and Ten people wanted out of the original ballpark seven five and three Construct they all got out because you had people waiting to get in at eight and eight, right?
LT: So the Fox is happy Brand Nerds, so instead of having seven and a half seven and a half And, and ten and a half total. Now they've got eight and sixteen total. So Fox is like, sure, we'll let you out.
Tim Spengler: One more thing, but I didn't say it. And you're going to keep the money on the network. You can just run that ten and a half later.
You can't just take your money back. We'll do something. You'll do something else. You just can't be in the game right now. In other words,
LT: They're still committed to that 10 and a half, even getting out of the Super Bowl,
Tim Spengler: You know, and stay farm with the, with the fires, uh, in Southern California state farm, the term that was the wrong, cause their commercials are all.
You know, genteel or kind of still silly, quite frankly, on purpose. And so that was in, they felt inappropriate given what's going on in Southern California. And so that's an example of a client who came out, a number of clients came out. So you can come out of the game and all that high profile in this, but you're going to, the media committee, that's how all, all of this is what's adding up to the 700 million debt.
LT: Right, right.
Tim Spengler: There's two or three advertisers still like to get in. They've got a check with a 16 million. Waiting and hoping somebody else pulls out.
LT: See, Brand Nerds, you won't hear that. This is where Tim's providing us information you're not going to get anywhere else. That's amazing, Tim. Okay, Tim, I got a question for you with all that said, and you've been involved in making these decisions.
So you said as, uh, uh, just a few minutes ago, you know exactly what pod you're going to be in. Can you talk to, to me and to the Brand Nerds a little bit about what the thinking is and what the strategy is? For wanting to be in the game early or taking rolling the dice and say, hoping that it's a close game and wanting to be in late. What's the thinking behind all that?
Tim Spengler: Yeah, sure. And you actually said a lot of it. It's fair. Again, it's the study of the consumer and the power of the communication at the certain moments. One A is going to be seriously the first spot. First break. First spot. Let's remember, everyone is leaning in on their couch to watch the ads.
Find me another place that comes in second with that dynamic. I don't know it. It can't. That's no second. There's no third. There's no fourth. No, the, the, the attentiveness as measured by many, both panel and electronic. So non. So, so, you know, just recorded. Not what I think I think, but what I actually do studies point to 3 times as great and awareness three X.
LT: Yep.
Tim Spengler: Okay. And by the way, you're in a co viewing environment. Yep. You're with people. You know how, you know, when you watch friends and there's a funny joke, but you're watching by yourself and or some sitcom and you don't laugh out loud, but that same joke, when you're with four other people watching the show and you laugh out loud, the little out loud giggle, it's that network effect of being together.
This is all about the power of the communication at that time. Okay, so that's the context. So everyone wants to be in the first break because that's leadership, right? That's leadership. I'm right up.
LT: So do you pay a premium for that first break?
Tim Spengler: Yes, you would. Yep. Three spots. There's something you're going to, you're not just going to get it because you're right.
LT: You got to be someone like, like Budweiser, let's say some of the advertisers got multiple spots who has the opportunity to get that. Right. For sure.
Tim Spengler: And Bud used to have to have 10 to buy out the category for 40 years. There was no other beers, Larry, as you know, besides Anheuser Busch Inc, and that was 10 spots.
Now they have less.
I'm not sure the year but so absolutely, you're going to be in the first pot. There's a reason why you got that. Everybody wants an a position. That's the spot right after the action.
LT: Right.
Tim Spengler: Um, and it is the risk reward of of. The fourth quarter versus another quarter. I mean, there's been a lot of close games.
Suppose it's a blowout and not only is a blowout, which means the the audience went lower. The attentiveness is down and there's almost the whole thing's a little bit of a mockery. Because it's a blowout. So the environment is different. It's not as serious. The announcers have got to be different. The whole thing is, and that's where you spent a year talking, planning and devising what you're going to do at your coming out moment.
And it's in a joke. Not, it's not a, it's not a joke with a capital J, but it's a kind of different environment. So fourth quarter has been a lot of close games. So it's worked pretty well. Promote for most brands, but fourth quarter, there's a big risk there. So I like the third, if I can't get in the first two pods, I like the third, I like early third quarter.
Everyone sat back down and they're listening, but I don't have any greats. There have been, you know, and there's this thing called the USA today Ad Meter, which was everything at a time. And again, that's, that's taking a poll. It put a hundred people or whatever the number is in a room. And then they ask them what they thought, but the best spot of the game.
Has been the best creative spot in the game as judged by this panel has been four spots that have been in the third quarter that have been in the first quarter that have been the second quarter. So that doesn't necessarily guarantee you anything where you are. We know we like a is the first position.
We like the end the last part because everyone got to come back, you know, I'm back. So those are the two best positions in the pod first and last. And then within the within the quarters is a little bit of, you know, that that's kind of the risk reward of how you how you're going to play it.
LT: That's I love you that you shared that because what to summarize with Tim saying is you want to be at the top because you know everyone's attention you're the second best is is the third, the beginning of the third quarter, even when the Patriots were getting killed by the Falcons, people were still checking in.
It's Tom Brady after all, and that all worked out. Um, and then you if you do get lucky, and it's a lucky thing, let's be honest. Mhm. You'll go at the end of the game, but that's luck, but you, you, you can't count on luck, Tim. That's what you're really saying. You're banking on what, what you think of the, the highest odds for people, attentiveness and for the tone that you said that becomes real.
Tim Spengler: Yeah, that I don't know, which is worth more. I mean, how many or how, what's the, what's the environment of the room? Are we not paying as much attention to the commercial? So the whole thing's a joke. So we're not even, we're not leaned in, right? The average last year, 123 points, something million people saw the Super Bowl.
So did it peak at a higher number? You know, so I, I just think let's not, you know, but that we didn't, so we hadn't said that yet, but across all the platforms last year, uh, include, you know, uh, uh, both streaming platforms, Paramount Plus, plus it was on, um, CBS. It was on Nick at night. It was on Nickelodeon.
It was on, you know, all the, all the properties of paramount this year. This will all be on Fox, but across all those platforms, plus NFL plus, um, their streaming platform, it was 123 million people.
LT: Right and we watched my Niners gag it away at the end, but it was the first overtime Super Bowl two Which was amazing as well first one in a while second. Was it was it the second? Okay. Yep Thanks for correcting me. All right, tim. I so let's let's move into the next so, you know We I think we've set up the branders really well for The impact of the game and some of the inside the ropes that you've provided people a great glimpse of so, um, Let's talk about what they should be thinking about when they're watching the game again as I alluded to up front brand nerds Um when you're looking at these ads, so tim i'm gonna start off if that's okay And and what's cool is Tim's perspective and mine overlap, but we have we definitely have a different perspective because He's been media centric and me coming from the brand standpoint.
Um, so I'm going to start off Tim with a quote from the Liquid Death Water CEO named Mike Cesario. And they built that brand, Tim, as you know, Liquid Death Water, on establishing street cred through really scrappy marketing. And by the way, this was, uh, comes from ad week, this quote, and he said, they said 7 million Super Bowl 59 by, but as Tim alluded to, it's, it's quite a bit higher than that.
His quote though is, quote, "there's no cheaper way to reach over 100 million unique people who actually want to pay attention to the commercials." And again, Tim said this before, Brand Nerds I need to reiterate it. Um, DC and I, I'm going to speak for him here, even though he's not here. We are huge fans of advertising in the Super Bowl because there may be a second place in terms of viewership, like the Final Four of the Oscars.
But as Tim said again, and we can't say this enough, this is the only time consumers are actively interested in the ads. They actually want to watch. Right, Tim? This is unprecedented. There's nothing like it, right?
Tim Spengler: No, three times three X three hundred percent greater than usual, right?
LT: Okay. So Brand Nerds. So given the audience size and given the consumer appetite to watch the ads, nailing the creative is just essential. It's really paramount. So in my opinion, too many advertisers become slave to their agency telling them something like this. They say, Hey client, it's the Super Bowl. You gotta be funny or entertaining and if you're not willing to do this, don't do it.
And while we are not against funny or entertaining at, at, uh, Brands, Beats, & Bytes, ultimately it has to serve the brand. This means the CMOs and others who are brand custodians must demand from their agency. The ad must elevate the brand.
Tim, you have any thoughts on that?
Tim Spengler: Um, absolutely. Because you're, you're creating a perception and you want them to leave. With sticking, you spend a lot of money getting to that day and, uh, but the, you have to counterbalance, well, not counterbalance that, but remember in today's more polarizing times, again, with the risk reward, you got to figure out a way to do that without offending anybody, right? Whereas you, you could have taken a shot and went, oh, they're just kitschy or they're, aren't they a little weird, which maybe people wanted, maybe in the past brands wanted that as a perception.
Now, You have to be a little bit, it's really hard to walk that line and not possibly get burned. And so you gotta, you gotta walk the line of how are you going to do that in a way that is, I don't want to say milk toast, but doesn't offend anybody and has broader appeal.
LT: Okay. So Tim, I, I hear you. Um, I'm going to posit just two more things and then throw it to you.
Um, what you say is very real what today's climate is in, in 2025, but Brand Nerds also keep in mind when you're looking at these ads and Tim said, there's going to be about 80 different ads, right? Um, who is, who is the brand target audience? So as an example, Salesforce, where I just saw Tim, Salesforce is going to be in the game, right?
Um, Oh, that. And San Francisco is Salesforce City. Salesforce is just huge, right? Um, but Salesforce is not a consumer company. Um, they're targeting business people and mostly SMBs, which are small mid sized businesses. So they're not going for a more larger bucket of consumers, let's say like a CPG brand would be.
So Brand Nerd, keep that in mind. 'cause their goals, and Tim and I touched upon this earlier, are gonna be different than let's say, um, what, uh, Budweiser would be. Um, but with that backdrop Brand Nerd, we want you to, uh, I want you to keep when you're thinking about these brands. Keep in mind the way I look at evaluating super brand, Super Bowl brand ads.
These are the three things I think about and maybe it'll be helpful to you too. So the first thing, and by the way, these three things are in order. So number one is the brand identification, the brand ID. Which means includes good use of brand iconography. So like Budweiser Clydesdales, Coca Cola Polar Bears.
Things like that, that are truly exclusive for those brands. So number one, does it have good brand ID? The second thing is, will this, does this ad advance what the brand is about? Advance the brand positioning and what they're trying to install on the brand. So that's number two. And the third one. Um, is, is it memorable, compelling, funny, emotionally connecting?
So those are the three brand ID advances, brand positioning and memorable. So when you think about these ads, I'm, that's what I'm thinking about when, when evaluating these ads, maybe this'll be helpful for you as well. Again, purely from a marketing standpoint for that brand efficacy of whether these ads are working.
So those are what I'm thinking about, Tim. What say you from a real macro standpoint?
Tim Spengler: Um, yeah, I love those. Right. You know, there's a visual medium and we, we, we are visual learners, uh, most of us. So I, I, I love that, you know, that the visual does really have to pop. And there is, let's be honest, there, everyone's gonna watch about 80 ads.
Over the next 40, 40 nights. So what do you think they're going to remember 14 of them? I don't know. It's so being memorable, uh, is certainly, you know, I'll underscore that because you walk away. And how many not in a multiple choice. Oh, yeah, I saw that one. But how many do they remember without having to be prompted?
Right? So I think that's true. And that's partly why that you see teaser spots and you see some social media campaigns that lead up and they show it all before and some don't. But that's
LT: What's your point of view on that? Do you think, because some brands show the full ad on social media, some, as you said, give teaser spots. What's your, what's your opinion of, of if a client asks you what to do, what, what do you think that they should do?
Tim Spengler: It's situational. I don't, I don't think I have a yes or no answer to that. I think I'd have to, I'd have to understand there'd be too many questions. We'd have to, we'd have to, we could say,
LT: You need to be conscious of it, right? That's what you're saying.
Any other thoughts on, on this realm, Tim, from a macro standpoint?
Tim Spengler: Uh, no, no, I think that was good.
LT: Okay, cool.
All right. So brand nerds. Um, you know, Tim and I have, uh, have done our homework here and we've looked upon. As, as Tim alluded to you, there's about going to be about 80 different ads and whatnot. Um, and so I've seen a number of the ads I think Tim has as well.
Um, and some of them, some of the advertisers don't have the ads, but they have teasers. Um, and so my, my lookouts for you, um, are two ads that I think you should look out for. A Pringles ad and a Hellman's mayonnaise. And by the way, Tim, I have a little pet peeve. Mayonnaise, as you know, you've lived that you live in the East Coast now, but you spent a lot of time in LA. Hellman's mayonnaise is Hellman's. East of the Mississippi and west of the Rockies. It is best foods. It's the same brand, the same Unilever product. So I don't know how they're going to handle that ad. Is it going to be, they're going to just say Hellman's that, you know, they, in other words. Years ago, Unilever should have picked us, picked the way they were going instead of having these two different, uh, brands for the same, for the same product, really.
Tim Spengler: You know, there is a technology that would allow you to run a regional ad and you could slice and dice that. I just don't think that any would have shot it. And, uh, do you want to talk about who's in the ad so I don't give it away or should I? Go ahead. You can do it. It's the recreation of Harry Met Sally when, um, Meg Ryan has the little, um, uh, the, the orgasmic moment, shall we say, in the cat's deli with Billy Crystal in cat's deli.
And in this case, she recreates that because of the sandwich. They were, so could they shoot that twice with a different, with a different thing or superimpose literally CGI, the actual product? Yes. And cut and cut the country. Yes. Are they doing that for this? Probably not. Don't know. Probably not. Right.
LT: It'll be interesting to see. But those are the two, my two lookouts from what I can see. And again, I'm really interested because A lot of the other ones. Um, uh, you know, uh, it'll be I'm looking forward to seeing what they're about. But there's something about you'll see in the what I saw in Pringles that I think from a brand standpoint looks really promising and interesting.
I'll leave it at that. What say you, Tim? You have any thoughts?
Tim Spengler: Um, I've got so category wise, I think, I think I look at the categories there was the year when it was the dot com Super Bowl. That was like 2000 the dot com, right? You know, you could look back at those 15 or 20, which was a lot. How many of them are still alive today?
And how many are not? Um, this year is really going to be a CPG fest. Package goods fest. Interesting. More than other years. Autos coming out only two autos, which is amazing, right? Tim don't autos usually lead. Autos usually lead up to a third of the game this year, only two. So that is, and, and you know, there are issues with them pivoting too far into an electric vehicle, hybrid, trying to figure that out, maybe some supply chain issues.
Um, so cars have. Now, of course, what's interesting about that before I let me just sidebar this before we go back to CPG. What's interesting about that is every CMO knows the opportunity to pounce is when the other ones are quiet. They all know I should zig when they're zagging, but they all sat there and went, Nope, can't do it.
Yep. Right. You're, you're, let's say you're Toyota. You go, GM's not in, Ford's not in, you know, Stellantis only two. What a, what a time for us. Nope. Got to keep my powder dry. They all know it's an opportunity. And none of them did it. All are sitting, all are sitting on the sidelines with the exception of two Stellantis spots.
So I just find that interesting that somebody didn't go, no, no, we're going to go all in. I want five. No one else is in. I could own the top mind for the biggest day of all the things we've been talking about. Yeah, it's a lot of money, but look how big my business is. What a moment to conquest and almost be, be exclusive, be the Bush of the past of the Super Bowl.
And they all went, they all sitting on their hands.
LT: That is really interesting. And Brand Nerds, it's just to key you in. All the car budgets are huge. That's where Tim is saying it's not like they can't afford it. You know, it's not, some, some brands would be difficult to justify whatever percentage of their budgets go into Super Bowl.
You wouldn't have to do that for 90 percent of the car brands. So I just want to make that point. Go ahead, Tim.
Tim Spengler: Yep, millions or millions, but, um, but that's true. In, in, in, in, in the totality of their business, certainly a smaller share, uh, smaller percentage. So it's a CPG fest. There's going to be 25 plus different brands.
LT: Wow.
Tim Spengler: Consumer packaged good brands. In the game back to the basics, the old school brands that appeal to most of them are brands that appeal to everybody,
LT: the Doritos of the world,
Tim Spengler: You know, all the sodas to water brands. Um, uh, can't, you know, Reese's is in there. There's just, there's just, uh, we could, you know, we could go the Hellman spot.
Sodas, beers, you know, there's just so there's just so we just listed a bunch of them. There's just so many. And okay, so why? Why? So broad brands with broad target audiences. Generally, 100 plus million people all leaned in as the world of media crumbles. The scale of media has crumbled and it has become so much more a data and technology play.
But I want to talk to everybody with a mouth. Yep. That's my target audience. Yep. And when do I have an opportunity to do that and stand out and also make my trade team happy when they go have conversations with retailers about SKU, about the SKUs and how much space they're going to get. All this, all this is part of the value of being in the game.
No, no, you've got to take more of my stuff. I'm in the Super Bowl. We've got the first spot coming out of halftime. The whole world. You know, this is these are the top tracks of the sales guys on the merchant side who partner with them with the with the with the media and marketing side. So. You could say, why didn't they do this every year?
I can't answer why they weren't in five years ago. I can answer why the Cops aren't in, and they were five years ago. I can answer why CPG is all back, but it's a big, gonna be a big CPG, or a big broad based, so you're gonna see more broad based celebrities. And who doesn't like animals, you know, it's going to be all a little bit more down the middle.
Uh, I haven't seen all the spots, but that's just some of the trends that I think are interesting of who's in and who's out.
LT: That's, those are great trends. Just to add a capper to what Tim was talking about with CPG. Because, again, have direct experience having, uh, had the great opportunity to, uh, brand manage a number of, uh, great brands.
And, um, what Tim alluded to is not a small thing, Brand Nerds. What happens is when you have a Super Bowl spot, your sales team can go into all the big, uh, customers, all the big supermarkets and the Targets and Walmarts of the world and say, Hey! We're running a Super Bowl spot and we want a big display in an end cap for the whole month of January when we run that and Brand Nerds the more you can have your brand in front of people at Retail, it's just one of those things that is it will that this will be this will stand the test of time The more that you can have it where people are reminded and oh, yeah, I need another Powerade.
That's right. I forgot and so the end dial when you pick it up That's where you have an incredibly great opportunity to use something like the Super Bowl in trade which just again makes the whole thing bigger in it in in its totality
Tim Spengler: You know, I know, Larry, you know this, the Procter and Gamble coined the moment the person walks down the aisle as the first moment of truth.
Yep. If you're not on the aisle or the end aisle, that's the thing. Now what's interesting is Google has updated that to a thing called the zero. So first moment of truth, he or she walks down the aisle. Google, 10 years ago, did research to say, you know what the first moment of truth is, is actually when he or she goes online before he or she goes down the aisle.
And we're going to rebrand that the zero moment of truth, ZMOT. So if you, if you look, if you type in ZMOT, you will see all the research done there on the actual, we're going to get in front of the first moment of truth, which leads me to another category we're talking about, which is e commerce. There's a fair amount of e commerce plays as business is now, is now, you know, transact is enabled multi channel and has to be, you have to be on the web, most every business model is omni channel. And so there's a number of e commerce plays that will also be in the game, including tied to CPG food, Instacart. Um, and there's one more. I can't think of the name
LT: While you're thinking about that, Tim, I saw about Instacart and Instacart. is getting a bunch of their CPG customers to use their mascots in the ad.
Did you hear, did you read about that?
Tim Spengler: Yeah, yeah, so Instacart and Uber Eats. So the interesting thing about that and they ran this
LT: And by the way, I just have to say one thing. They're paying for that. They're not doing that for free, Brand Nerds. If you have, if you're one of the, uh, if you're one of the brands that are in that, that's not for free.
Go ahead, Tim.
Tim Spengler: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's in some business arrangement with Instacart. So, um, Yes, so the other one is Uber Eats with Matthew McConaughey, who's really taken over with an, he's just really, you know, breaking through with some really fun stuff, I think. The yes, with the Instacart spot, which, and I don't know if it's a different one in the Super Bowl.
My guess is it's not. My guess is it's the one on Champ Game, which is with the Old Spice guy and then all the brands around it, the Pillsbury Doughboy. What's interesting about that is. It's a new time, you know, new regulations or eased regulations. 10 years ago, there's no way in a spot for a brand.
You're going to put other brands.
LT: You're right.
Tim Spengler: Not happening. It would be shut down by standards and practices and it wouldn't get on the air. And then this one is a cornucopia of brands all sitting there. Now, if you and I, Larry bought a spot, let's say we bought a spot for a competitor of one of those products.
Well, I better not be in that pod or I'm not paying. I'm not gonna. Are you kidding me? Because, because every, every advertiser gets, gets brand separation for the pod, at least, right? Talking. And I was a Busch buying 10 spots. There was no other beer allowed inside the inside the shield inside the game.
There was no other beers. You can only infiltrate locally, not nationally.
LT: Right?
Tim Spengler: So that was that was game exclusivity. And that's right. But but de facto, you get pod exclusivity. Right. So now and the network, of course, this is they do what they do for a living so that they're going to make sure that but that's interesting what it just wasn't allowed from a standards of practice.
Uh, and people try people try to bring in brands and they all said no. Now it's just they've opened. It is completely, um, changed. And I, and I'm not on the inside enough to know what brands are competing against that. And are they in the game and did they have a problem with it, et cetera, et cetera. But it's just interesting now that the communication was allowed to open up like that.
LT: Yeah, that is, that's really interesting. Um, so Tim, I, I just want, I want to just put a capper, uh, for this, um, point that we, where we're at, uh, as it relates to just, you know, you and I thinking. Trying to heads up people for, um, what they should be looking at. And so my last point to leave on in that subject, Brand Nerds, is that, so after you see a particularly funny or compelling spot, uh, 10 seconds after it airs, 10 seconds after you see it, ask yourself and the others you're watching the game with, what was the brand in that spot?
Do that test.
What are you thinking, Tim?
Tim Spengler: Um, I like that. And again, um, you're going to see four or five spots and then you're gonna be back to the action. Somebody had to go to the bathroom at some point, but it is true. Uh, and I, I like the walkaway factor. There's there's at that moment and then there's, as you're walking out.
What were your five best? Well, I only remember three, right? I'm not saying that's what the answer is going to be, but it's just human nature. You're eating it. You're not. So, you know, so it's, it's just the whole dynamic is interesting. The whole, the whole consumer and getting the money. It was part of marketing.
LT: Agreed. Agreed. Any thoughts, uh, you want to share, uh, before we talk about the game and then we'll, and then we'll also do a wrap up at the end here.
Tim Spengler: Yeah, yeah, let's I think so. We're about to talk about the game. Let's talk about where are the games being played, which leads into some interesting things.
Oh, yeah, I'm glad you thanks for bringing that up. Let's talk about. So in New Orleans, right? Um, in my opinion, far and away the best city to host a Super Bowl. Why? It not only has a nostalgia show. Of all those great 70s and 80s games, five games in 15 years were played in New Orleans in the 70s and 80s.
Five games in 15 years. And there's a reason for that. Steelers wins, Cowboys wins, Raiders wins, all that kind of classic stuff. The, the, the topography of the city. Plus the zeitgeist of the city, okay? But the Department of the City means that it is a game that will take place in the city. When you're in the French Quarter, no matter what turn you make down what side street, you know the Super Bowl is in town.
And then you walk to the game.
LT: That's right.
Tim Spengler: That's awesome. This isn't one of these other great cities in America, where I've just had lunch, and now I'm going to get on a bus for 30 minutes. It's like one of the reasons the Paris Olympics were so successful, in addition to the passion of the Parisians, okay, of the French people, which was, which drives mostly because three quarters of the people in the audience are from the host country, regardless of the country, where it is, okay?
So they have to show up. But it was in Paris, not all the iconic venues, fine, but everything was, it was all in the city. Yeah. It was all right there. And so this is the thing with New Orleans, is you get that effect and you can walk to the game. The French quarter just loves it. And so it's a great place to have it.
Um, it will be under heightened alert because of that, it, that terrorist issue that we had in the, in the, in the Sugar Bowl. If you remember the game was the day. So there's going to be, so it might feel tighter security. If you're there, I don't know, but I would imagine that that will not affect the viewing experience, but I imagine that might affect the weekend in some way, shape or form.
But again, the town was built for it. It's had so many of the great ones, and it's had some of the firsts happen in New Orleans, which I think are fun to mention, Larry, before we go to the game.
LT: Hit us with that.
Tim Spengler: Okay, so the first million dollar spot. Wow. It was the first 8 million, but the first million dollar spot. 1990. What year was that? Which super? 1997. Wow. Again, these are all New Orleans facts and Eiser Busch. Um, our first standalone thing that I was telling you about for Yahoo, that was actually 2002 in New Orleans. Um, the year the lights went out, oh, 2013
LT: My niners
Tim Spengler: was, was, was in that game. That was the Harbaugh game, right?
Niners? Yep. Niners, Raven, Raven. And I was there. It was partial. It wasn't dark. It wasn't too dark. It might have been one third dark, but right game. They couldn't play the game. And that was the first moment of social communications at scale. When on Twitter, then Twitter said it's dark at you, you know, the lights are out.
In the Superdome, but you can still dunk in the dark and that oreo that was the first Social media communications at scale in real time. That's great 2013 they had a 15 person team on on standby for just such a moment and they capitalized on it. Now that is just standard operating procedure. Anyone who spent the 8 million bucks to get in the game, they've got a team that is amplifying that message with planned stuff and maybe some non planned stuff, depending on what they see.
LT: Yeah. You don't know that you don't know the lights are going to go out in the super dome then. And that's just one of those things that you. That you smartly, your social team really takes a great advantage of that's awesome.
Tim Spengler: That's great. You know, to add to the new Orleans thing, because those are first in new Orleans and, and, you know, and they haven't had the game.
The rumor is that the NFL skipped the cycle because of that blackout. Oh, really? Interesting rumor. I haven't been able to get that proven, but that's the rumor is that they skipped a cycle, not every four or five years, but since 13, right? So now we're talking 12 years. Wow, that's a long time for New Orleans not to have that's the longest gap for sure.
As we just said, there was three and it was five and 15 years, so they skipped the cycle, but they're back. Let's wish them luck.
LT: Yeah, I'm a huge, as you and I have talked about, I've been a Final Four in New Orleans and it's, it's a great big event city period. It just is, um, because it, because of the French quarter, like you're saying, you get to walk everywhere.
All right, Tim. So you want to have just quick thoughts about the game? Do you think there's any Chiefs fatigue? You think it's going to be a good game? What are you thinking on the game?
Tim Spengler: We still got to lean in. We want to see if there's a three peat. Is there chiefs fatigue? Absolutely. Absolutely. It used to be unique.
We've seen this guy win now. I mean, he's just so clutch. It's incredible. Or the whole team is. But I think there probably is some. Do I think that affects the rating? No. I think the Chiefs fatigue is they won again. Three Pete's interesting. Did you see the thing that if they, that if they, I think Pat Riley gets paid for creating Three Pete.
He owns the trademark. Because he trademarked the word Three Pete. They didn't Three Pete. The Lakers, the Lakers actually didn't Three Pete, but he trademarked it after they had won two. Right. And I think some, he gets, uh, he gets some sort of license fee if their 3PETE is used in some, they're talking about the ChiefPETE or I forget the, the way they're calling it, other ways to call it, but, but interesting.
LT: Yeah.
My feeling is, look, if, if Chief's fatigue was really real, I get, I think this, obviously there's a certain sector rolling their eyes, enough Mahomes, and by the way, for me, Mahomes is Michael Jordan. You're watching Michael Jordan in a football, uh, cleats. I think he's amazing. And he beat my Niners last year.
And I have nothing but huge respect for him. And I think there's a little bit of Chiefs fatigue, but I got to tell you something, uh, there's 57, you know, 57 plus million people watched the AFC championship game last week, which was a huge number, right? And so I do think that they're gonna, I think you're right.
I think they're going to get a huge number for this game. And I'm just, I'm just hoping that it's a really good game. Uh, we'll see. We'll see if Philly can accord themselves well. Um, before we sign off, Tim. We're at the end here. I know you, there's a couple things, uh, that you'd like to share before we, uh, before we get out of here.
Tim Spengler: Well, just some, some fun stuff for cocktail conversation or at the game conversation where you, you, the audience here can go, Hey, did you know this? Or, Hey, look at that. Did you know that? I think it's kind of fun. So one, and one is a lookout and one's a guarantee. Got that
LT: Brand nerds. This is great stuff for you.
For your Super bowl party.
Tim Spengler: Go ahead, Tim. Yeah, this is like a little capital here, a little IP for you. So, at the end of every game for 25 years, three things happen. What's the first thing that happens when the game ends? 50 or 60 guys. or gals in a yellow slicker run on the field with a yellow rope and rope off the field.
That's the first thing that happens. That's security, right? That's security. The next thing that happens is the confetti comes down. And the next thing that happens for 20 plus years was standing on top of the world by Van Halen is the song that is played when the euphoria begins.
LT: Okay.
Tim Spengler: They haven't done that the last few years.
Watch for what song they do play after security and the ropes and then the confetti. What's the song? So you guys can have your own version of that. It used to be. I used to show up and go, you know, it's gonna happen right now. They're gonna play then on top. I was like, how would you, you know, because it was all these years.
Um, that was one that's a call out. Here's another fun one. When you watch the game on TV and you listen to the, you listen to the, um, uh, the guy who's, You know, saying first down the P. A. Announcer at the game, right? That guy is the Minnesota Vikings guy. Oh, interesting. You're gonna hear him, right? You're definitely gonna hear him.
Not the whole time, like you're in the game, but you'll hear that while you're watching the game and you can elbow somebody. If you guys, if anybody likes this stuff and go, that's the Minnesota play, but that's the Minnesota P. A. Guy. Right. That's awesome. Little nuggets.
LT: Those are awesome. Those are awesome.
Tim, dude, this has been so much fun. Um, and BrandNerds, I feel like, uh, you know, this has been great fun for me, and I think great fodder for you as you're watching the game. And, uh, we hopefully have given you some nuggets that, uh, you can see things that maybe you wouldn't have seen before. Right, Tim? That was what you and I talked about this in prepping.
That's what we wanted to do. And I, I, I feel real confident that we did a good job in that, Tim.
Tim Spengler: I hope so. I hope everyone enjoyed it and I hope it's a great game and everyone learned something about watching the brands. In addition, having fun watching sports and socializing with, you know, family and friends, but watching brand behavior and kind of learning what someone did and maybe why they did that, how they thought about that. And you liked it or you didn't, or you, you get ideas from it for yourself, for your, for your own business.
LT: Exactly. That's a great topper. Uh, we're just going to hit the ending here. Uh, Brand Nerds. Thanks for listening to this special what's poppin edition of Brands Beats and Bytes. The executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, Larry Taman and Hailey Cobbin, Jade Tate, and Tom Dioro.
And if you do like this podcast, please subscribe and share. And for those on Apple podcasts, if you are so inclined, we love those excellent reviews. Keep them coming. We hope you enjoyed this podcast and we look forward to next time where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing.