How Does Your Lender Make You More Money? Part 2 📱

In Part 1, we made the case that your lender partner should help you make more money. In Episode 5, we’re going deeper into what that actually looks like.

Shaune Corbett puts Devin Dubuc back in the hot seat to break down how loan officers can create real value for their real estate partners—beyond great rates, good communication, and getting the loan closed.

We talk about what a true agent-lender partnership should look like, how lenders can help agents grow their business, what both sides should expect from the relationship, and why simply asking Realtors for referrals isn’t enough anymore.

If you’re a real estate agent looking for more from your lender—or a loan officer trying to become a partner agents actually want to work with—this episode is for you.

Counterculture Agent with Shaune Corbett and Devin Dubuc, presented on Loan Officer Success Live.

Creators and Guests

Host

Devin Dubuc

Coach. Dreamer. Dad. Helping you own your worth and go after what sets your soul on fire🔥

Designer

Jennifer Rodriguez

Jennifer Rodriguez is the engine behind LOS.Live and The Mortgage Giants, leading everything from graphic thumbnails and episode descriptions to cross-platform distribution. With years of experience as an Office Manager and Executive Assistant, she brings organization, strategy, and innovation to every production. Mentored by Growth Leader Devin Dubuc for the past six years, Jennifer collaborates on branding and podcast strategies that help loan officers nationwide elevate their business. Known for her positive energy, adaptability, and commitment to growth, she is the trusted voice guests connect with throughout the podcast experience.

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This isn’t another sales tips podcast.
This is Loan Officer Success Live - where mortgage and real estate pros come to master modern growth without the burnout.

Hosted by Devin Dubuc, Loan Officer Success Live is a deep dive into the psychology, strategy, and systems that build legacy-driven businesses in today’s market. Whether you're a high-performing loan officer, a rising agent, or an entrepreneur scaling fast, you’ll learn how to attract clients, grow income, and lead with brand, not brute force.

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Welcome back to the counterculture agent

presented on loan officer success live a

last episode.

Sean and I started the conversation around

a pretty simple idea.

Your lender partner should help you make

more money.

And apparently we had a lot more to

say.

what we thought we did so uh you

know we didn't even come close to getting

through this one and today we're gonna do

part two we're gonna pick up where we

left off and get a little deeper uh

real lender agent partnership should look

like and what agents should expect from

their lender sean let's jump back to it

man where we leave off

Awesome.

Thank you, Devin.

I appreciate you jumping us off,

getting us kicked back on.

We've got a lot to cover.

We do.

And a short time to do it because

you've got an appointment coming up, man.

So let's blast through this thing.

Well,

I want to make sure we get this

covered and thorough because there's a lot

of things that lenders can do to help

agents.

Their objective is to build an inventory

of solid quality agent relationships.

They know they need more.

business from agents than probably

anywhere else.

So what do you need to do as

a lender to make sure you're the one

that's called whenever the opportunities

come up?

So welcome back, everyone.

Last time we talked about what agents

actually should expect from the lender,

certainty, speed,

understanding the buyer's payment,

helping buyers understand why it makes

sense to buy now.

But most of that is still about getting

the loan closed.

And I want to take it a further

step today.

Closing the loan is kind of the minimum

requirement.

Wouldn't you agree, Devin?

A hundred percent.

A hundred percent.

If you can't get that done,

exit stage left because you're in the

wrong industry.

You're absolutely in the wrong industry.

If I'm going to call somebody a lender

partner,

I think that they should be able to

help me grow my business.

That's the elements that we want to kind

of talk about a little bit more today.

So what separates...

A true partnership is what you're talking

about.

Absolutely.

What separates somebody who simply

originates mortgages from somebody who

actually wants a business partner?

Okay.

So...

Today,

the first one I want to start with

is don't just kill the deal,

solve the problem.

What does that mean?

What does that mean to you?

Well,

I think at the end of the day,

it's very simple to take a look at

something and use the basic information

the client gave you and say,

you know what,

this is not going to work.

It's just there's not a deal here.

Right.

But what a problem solver does is takes

it a step deeper and they go, well,

why is it not working the way that

it's written right now?

Right.

And are there any tricks up my sleeve

that could get this thing done for the

consumer and help my agent?

One thing I always like to talk about,

Sean, is that, you know,

when your agent partner is giving you a

lead for them, that lead,

depending on the agent,

could be three months worth of salary,

right?

And effectively,

why should they give it to you if

all you're going to do is the bare

minimum and try to get the client

qualified under traditional financing

options or not leave every stone unturned,

right?

Because at the end of the day,

there may be additional income that you're

not looking at.

Have you analyzed the tax returns?

Is there a co-mortgager?

Is there, you know,

a non-purchasing co-mortgager that can be

brought into the transaction?

Can you refinance a car into somebody

else's name?

Can you help them get the insurance

premium just a little bit lower to get

that debt to income ratio to qualify?

You know,

Is it a program issue, right?

Do we have a program that's going to

work for this client?

That's not traditional.

And these are the things that a great

lender should be doing for their agent.

So that agent goes, man,

if I give this to Devin,

I know without a shadow of a doubt,

if he tells me it's not going to

work,

it's not going to work.

Right.

And more importantly,

do you give a comprehensive plan on how

to get the mortgage ready if it's not

going to work right now?

Cause I'm a firm believer that there is

no no in this industry,

but there are some not right now.

That's funny.

I was going to say the exact same

thing going back.

I remember hearing from someone at one

point in time that everyone can qualify

for a mortgage.

That's right.

Just maybe not today.

Yeah.

Right.

And that was something I heard them say.

And I like that.

I like that you would say, no,

they're not going to qualify.

But here is the steps and the plan

and the time frame that's realistic.

That's right.

That they can get there.

You know,

often I send people that I know are

not going to qualify today.

And I explained to them, I said, look,

you need a plan if you're going to

ever move into getting a home.

Right.

If you just say the not now,

I got to fix this.

I got to fix that.

And I don't really know what I'm fixing.

Then that's not a plan.

You know,

go ahead and fill out the application and

fill out the application.

Let's get you in the pipeline,

because when they have to pull it again,

it's really easy.

Like, you know, that starting point,

giving them all their documents,

giving them kind of a platform to start

from.

Then we can start making the micro changes

to see where do we need to be

in order to get you qualified?

Well,

I'm going to take that a step further,

Sean,

because I know where you're going with

this.

And a lot of people will go, hey,

man, I'm not ready right now.

So I don't want to have anybody take

a look at my situation yet.

Right.

But the problem with that theory is,

is that if you're not having them look

at it early,

when you get to the point where you're

ready to go,

you may have some things that could have

been cleaned up earlier on.

So that you don't have any headaches or

heartaches once you get started in that

process and you are ready to go.

So what you really want to do is

we call it getting your mortgage ready.

Let's take a look.

Let's take a quick peek behind the

curtains.

See what you've got going on under the

hood.

Make sure that we're diagnosing this so

that when that day comes and you go,

Pick me, pick me.

I'm ready to go, Sean.

Put me in, right?

Sean can go, okay, great.

We already know that they're

pre-qualified.

Let's do an update.

Make sure nothing has changed.

Sure.

And we're going to go put them in

the car and go out and start showing

house because we're going to have the

confidence that all the T's are crossed

and the I's are dotted and there isn't

anything that's potentially going to get

in the way that wasn't looked at months

before they were ready or years before

they were ready.

Really months.

I think it's more months than years.

Yeah, I don't want to get into it,

but normally everyone always pushes back

because this is a hard pool,

this is a soft pool,

all that kind of language.

And I always tell them, I said, look,

if we want to get a home,

who cares what it is?

I want to make sure you understand that

a few thousand dollars of repairs will be

tens of thousands of dollars of interest

and savings.

So preparing ourself for it, you know,

a soft pool is good for pre-qual,

hard pool is what we're going to have

to do if we're going to get a

home.

a real approval you know but they always

get caught up in that oh it's going

to hurt my credit well if this is

the reason why you can't do something

you've got a bigger problem

Yeah, that's kind of the way I think.

Well,

I'm going to give you a solution in

today's world that a lot of people don't

realize is that now Fannie and Freddie do

have programs that allow for you to get

somebody temporary approved using the

DURLP findings with the soft credit pool.

So it analyzes it just like a regular

credit pool.

It allows for you to get a real

approval.

just like you would do on a credit

pool.

The only difference is,

is that when you get to the point

where you're ready to do a hard pool,

you just have to rerun credit and rerun

the findings.

And if anything's changed in your scenario

since then,

you've got a balance that's gone up or

down,

you've got a collection that's dropped on.

Well,

now all of a sudden we do have

to use that and take that into

consideration on the new findings.

But

The soft pull in today's world in twenty

twenty six can actually be used in Fannie

and Freddie.

And that's not always been the case.

Right.

That's not always been the case.

It was a pilot program a couple of

years back.

Only a few lenders had it.

Now more lenders have the flexibility to

be able to do that.

So but you're correct.

If you are going to go for the

full approval,

the hard pull is the only way that

that loan can go through and be

underwritten.

I think another secret that people need to

understand is that having your credit

accessed is not going to damage your

score.

right?

What the credit vendors are looking at is,

A, did you have your credit accessed?

But then B,

how many times was it accessed?

Because if they see that you're having an

access two, three times,

they know you're shopping around to make

sure that you're getting the right

opportunity, right?

But if you haven't shopped around five,

six, seven, eight times,

now what it looks like is happening is

that you're getting declined from the

other places that you're going to.

And that's what will eventually start to

diminish your score.

So you do have a shopping window

to go out and have a hard pull

done that's not going to affect your

score.

I think where the biggest error is,

is people will have their credit pulled,

and they were looking at Credit Karma,

right?

And Credit Karma says they're a .

And then they have a mortgage report

pulled,

and the mortgage guy or gal says it's

.

And they go, oh, my credit score dropped.

No,

Credit Karma uses a consumer credit

report.

When you're in mortgage,

you're using a mortgage score credit

report.

So there's always a variance between what

you're going to find on Credit Karma and

what you're going to see on the actual

mortgage report.

That's not your score dropping.

It's just because a different scoring

model is actually being utilized.

That's probably the number one thing they

always ask, right?

So I'm glad that you gave some clarity

to that.

And yes, using even TransUnion, Equifax,

all those, looking at that,

thinking you're looking right at what

lenders are looking at,

they almost are always higher than what

lender reports are actually going to pull

and show.

That's right.

So get realistic.

You do need to have a lender take

care of these things or you're just not

going to get a real picture.

You're guessing.

So the next one here,

this is the one that really drives me

crazy, right?

After spending years and sometimes

thousands of dollars generating

opportunities.

We send somebody to a lender who isn't

ready today and that person disappears

into the CRM somewhere.

I've probably given lenders at this point,

thousands over my career.

I mean,

I've been doing this almost twenty years.

I've always had lead generating and I've

generated partnerships and we all have

these CRMs that are just growing with all

these leads in there.

And then I don't ever see them coming

back to me.

You know,

what should a great lender be doing with

that person who isn't ready?

So I think you've got a lot of

different things that you're talking about

there.

Number one is follow-up, right?

How are we following up on the lead

once it's transitioned over, right,

from day number one?

And, you know,

typically what we like to do is in

the first three days is where we really

go at it hard, right?

We're going to make at least two to

three phone calls.

We're going to text them.

We're going to email.

And we're going to do that for the

first two to three days.

And every time we do that,

by the end of the day,

we're going to reach back out to our

partner and let them know, hey, look,

this is what we did.

This is the communication.

And this is where we're at with it.

However,

if we get that client that either they

didn't qualify or we weren't able to get

them on the phone,

then you have different placeholders

inside of your CRM systems based upon what

that journey was for that particular

client, right?

If it was a credit issue,

then you move it into your credit section.

If it was a nurture issue where they're

just not ready right now,

but they're going to be ready later on

down the road,

then you move it in nurture.

You've got to have campaigning in there

that's going to consistently be

outreaching to these individuals,

but you also have to have task reminders

that remind you, the lender,

to follow back up with the consumer at

certain points in time along that journey.

And that's not follow up by these generic

emails, right?

Which I say generic,

they're crafted in a very particular way.

uh but you need to pick up the

phone and actually do some hard outreach

so if a client's telling you hey i'm

going to be six months down the road

you should be checking in with them at

day thirty day forty five day sixty

because at the end of the day they

may make a change and if you're not

there to have that conversation with them

right uh then they're gonna go somewhere

else another thing that we do is we

have a program we call pals okay pals

are pre-approved in lookings okay and so

let's say we get somebody pre-approved

We're going to move it in a bucket

that's called pre-approved and looking.

It's going to do some outreach,

but that also is a follow-up every single

week from us to the client and to

the agent.

That'd be your most active buyers for

sure.

These are people that you know are

qualified, that you know are interested,

but they haven't found a home yet.

And you and I both know, Sean,

this could be a client that sits in

that category for a week, a month,

and sometimes a year or greater, right?

Because some people get out there and they

don't find exactly what they're looking

for and they don't come in or move

forward.

So we put them in our pre-proven looking

and we actually reach up to them every

single week.

we don't just reach out to one bar

if there's two clients on the transaction

we talk to both so we're going to

reach out to the client then we're going

to reach out to co-bar and then our

touch the lead touch the partner then

we're going to reach out to you sean

we're going to say hey sean we talked

to the smiths this is what's going on

either they're still kind of on hold or

this is what's happening and they want to

go out this weekend and start looking at

houses the other reason we do that is

because we also want to make sure that

we do a credit refresh when they're ready

So if they say, Hey, you know what?

I did see a perfect house that was

popped up.

I think Sean and I are going to

go out and look at it this weekend.

Great.

Let's take a look at that one.

Make sure you understand what the numbers

look like on that.

Okay.

So that when you go out there and

shop,

if you want to put an offer on

this, you know exactly where you stand.

That's perfect.

Yeah.

I think that's something that lenders,

they either drop off.

They're like, we already did my job.

I checked my box.

Now I'll just wait until the agent calls

me and they've got a contract.

Right.

Yeah.

got to nurture it and you know right

i mean i have people that i've got

completely ready i don't touch for you

know sixty ninety days and then you come

to find out they they bought a house

yeah and they never told me right i

mean it certainly happened any agent out

there can certainly attest to having

someone that you already had the

relationship everything was good and you

didn't continue to follow up with them to

make sure you were top of mind when

they were ready to make that decision

that's right

You know,

a not yet buyer might be more valuable

than a yesterday buyer.

That's right.

If somebody is actually nurturing them,

right?

Because now you're starting to establish a

relationship.

You get to know them just a little

bit more than just them being a number.

That's right.

And a contract now.

Well,

now I'm following your life because it's

all about life events, right?

It is.

People don't just buy houses like they buy

cars, you know,

like they can just run out next weekend

and buy a car.

A house is life changing.

Like everything has to line up for that

to work.

you know your your kids moved out your

mom-in-law moved in you have something

dramatic that's happened now that's

life-changing now you get to know them on

a personal level because of it well i'm

glad you talked about that because that's

also part of a great interview process

that we covered on the first call right

on our first podcast which is if you're

interviewing your client and getting a

great uh understanding as to what they're

looking for what they're trying to

accomplish and where their long-term goals

are and why

Now you have those things that you can

actually talk about when you're doing your

follow-up calls.

You're getting to understand what really

motivates them and what it is that they

really want this home for.

And then you can remind them of that,

right?

Like, oh man, you know what?

I know we got the baby on the

way.

Super excited for you guys.

How's everything going, right?

You know, or hey, I know, you know,

little Tim's at college now.

He's not so little, you know, and you're

You were going to eliminate the room and

downsize a little bit,

but you were looking for that great place

with the pool.

You're having these conversations because

if you're doing a good job with your

interview,

you're writing these notes down and you're

making sure that you're remembering these

things so that when you do follow up,

you've got something great to talk to the

consumer about.

sure i mentioned last time or the last

event or item was the one that really

irks me but now this one irks me

every one of these irks me this is

another one that's a big thing for me

um it has to do with the communicate

before there's a problem you know this is

a big thing for me right so i

i know i probably have an advantage in

most

agents that i can foresee when something's

not going to work out right or things

don't jive i'm not feeling good about

something and every time i get that

feeling i'm always right i don't know what

it is i just know something is not

lining up correctly you're not because

you're not hearing from them well yeah i

mean that's normally they're not hearing

from them is probably one of the bigger

signals but it could be you know we

got a week before closing and i haven't

seen the appraisal right i mean just

things that like i i've got that internal

clock like wait a minute something's not

Your finger's on the pulse.

Yeah, your finger's on the pulse.

But you just have that.

Agents don't always have that.

So they have to rely on a lender

to get ahead of it and say, hey,

by the way.

we need the tax return completed and we

are closing in a week.

I don't think they're going to have it

completed.

So I would recommend doing an extension

now before everybody gets ticked off.

That's right.

You know, or whatever it is,

you have that field.

And I, and I think that, you know,

coming to me later,

three days before closing, oh yeah,

we have to extend, you know,

we asked her for tax return last week.

The lender,

I had a lender partner actually just two

weeks ago.

I can do this all day,

talk about all kinds of events.

And I love that you are because I've

got some great solutions here.

So two weeks ago I had one and

they needed to get the clear to close

sign.

And my buyer is in Washington and she

is not computer savvy.

She's probably about seventy.

And she's not going to be checking her

emails.

You mean the closing disclosure, right,

the CD?

Yeah, well, yeah.

I'm sorry.

You said clear to close.

You know what I'm saying.

We're not supposed to be using acronyms.

Oh, that's right.

So to get the final disclosure signed in

order to hit the three-day window,

all that kind of stuff.

That's it, yeah.

And I know all about it.

I know we need to have it,

but I'm not the lender.

You take care of it.

That's your job.

That's right, absolutely.

Well,

they didn't tell me until the day after,

oh, well,

we have to extend closing because she

didn't sign.

I'm like...

I've been here all day yesterday.

If you just told me that,

I could have got her on that computer

in three minutes.

Exactly.

She does whatever I say.

And I'm telling you,

if lenders learn how to use their agents,

agents can get things done.

Lenders can't get done.

That's right.

And it's not because the lender doesn't

know how to do it or can't ask

because they ask fifty times and they

don't get responses all the time.

So learn to work and utilize the agent

whenever you're not getting information

and stuff like that.

So I just wanted to share that.

Yeah, well,

you as the agent are spending more time

with the consumer.

You're actually in the car.

You're out at properties.

You're really spending,

and you get to know them.

They're going to respond to you quicker in

a lot of cases.

Now,

I think one of the other issues that

you run into is just the fear factor.

You have loan officers that are petrified

that if they reach out and tell the

agent that there's a glitch,

in the matrix, right?

That they're going to throw a fit,

fire them, right?

And move on and work with somebody else

because they've screwed up, right?

But the reality is that's exactly the

opposite of the issue.

The issue is,

is that you wait too long to have

the conversation.

And by the time that you bring it

up,

they are fired up because they recognize

that you could have acknowledged this

three days ago, a week ago.

And so the best opportunity is to rip

the Band-Aid off the moment it's happened.

And this is what I can tell you

from the other perspective,

what I've seen happen year after year

after year with law officers that I've

trained.

They're just trying to find the solution

before they bring you the problem.

Correct.

Which should not be the case.

And that's the problem because sometimes

the agent can be part of the solution

if they know there's a problem that's

happening and it gives them the ability to

sit down and go, okay,

there's something a little funky going on,

but I know what's going on.

I know that there's somebody trying to

resolve it and you're not popping up three

days later going, oh, we got a problem.

And you immediately sense that this has

been going on for longer than what you're

being told.

One of the ways that we avoid that,

Sean, is we do our Tuesday update call.

And on our Tuesday update call,

we call every borrower that we have in

the process,

along with every listing agent,

buy side agent, and title company,

just to give them an update as to

what's happening.

Now,

that doesn't mean that if something's

happening this week,

we wait until Tuesday to call them.

But we always call every Tuesday to let

you know, hey, great news.

Everything's moving along as planned.

We're in good shape.

Another thing that I think is super

important.

Let me emphasize that a little bit.

The Tuesday call is also going to predict

that here's our challenges.

Mm-hmm.

mean before you get to the crisis point

where okay now we're actually considering

an issue with closing if we don't get

this address like that's right being able

to at least foresee it and say hey

i'm planning the seat now they haven't

given us their tax returns if you might

nudge them a little bit to help make

sure we do that that way we can

get them to a the best loan they

can get i don't want to give them

a backbone i want to give them a

good loan

Yeah, that's exactly right.

Well, another thing that we do, Sean,

and I think this is important because you

mentioned sometimes there's a document

that you don't know is needed until last

minute.

We also give our agents a peek inside

the portal.

And so inside of our portal,

If there's documents missing,

they can actually see that we are waiting

on certain items for the client.

Just tell them what we're missing.

It just lets them know docs are needed

for this particular consumer.

Not that the agent should need to do

that, right?

Because we should be communicating that.

But if the agent loves the idea of

the portal and wants to see where their

leads are, how funds are moving along,

who's in process and who's in

underwriting,

we have a system that gives them a

window into what's actually happening real

time.

It's kind of like when you go to

those fancy restaurants and they've got

the window where you can see the chef

cooking your meal, right?

That's what we've got going on right here,

right?

You know,

we're one of those high-end restaurants

that want you to see exactly what's

happening with the action behind the

scenes so you don't have to guess whether

we're doing our job or not.

It's funny because that's one of the

things I like about Panda Express.

Yeah.

It's shocking how much of a difference,

but they have the refrigerator on the side

and it's glass.

Yeah.

And you can see all the fresh veggies

in there.

It just sends a perception, right?

It's a good message, yeah.

Yeah, I mean,

the food's probably still not good for me,

but I know that they're cooking with fresh

ingredients,

even though it's got a thousand milligrams

of sodium and sugar.

Yeah.

But it just makes you feel that way.

We can allude ourself to the fact that

it's healthy because we can see those

fresh veggies.

So you're saying bad news early is

information.

Bad news three days before closing is a

crisis.

Agreed.

I can deal with almost anything if you

just tell me soon enough.

I think that's the lesson for.

You got to rip the bandaid off.

Yeah.

Working.

Rip the bandaid off and tell people what's

happening and give them a window inside of

it so that they have an opportunity.

And if they react negatively, that's okay.

Cause there is a crisis, right?

Maybe it's not going to close on time,

but at least you're telling them ahead of

time and waiting until the last minute.

And then everybody has to start

misdirecting you.

I mean,

have you ever had a closing where clients

had to cancel moving trucks and live in

a hotel for a couple of days?

Because I've seen it happen and it's not

okay.

You know,

Shocking, Devin,

I could probably count out of five hundred

transactions,

maybe only about two or three times it's

happened.

Yeah,

but but you got to have like real

perception.

You got to know.

And I always use these facts.

Just to give some flexibility and room to

make things happen.

I just did one where I had a

triple move all happened within about five

days.

The sellers moved out of the house.

My buyer bought their house and my buyer's

house for sale was getting moved in by

somebody else all within five days.

So I've seen a lot of prep up

front,

making sure everybody knows where they're

at and where the deadlines are.

And fortunately we did,

we made it all happen.

Even with a last minute closing,

we still got it all done.

amazing that one was creative i did that

one that was an owner finance okay it

was such a complicated owner finance the

the underlining lien on the original note

was a cash out refi which is treated

like a heloc and if it's treated like

a heloc you're not eligible to get title

insurance on that house because they have

protections lenders have protections right

so i ended up having to owner finance

it directly with an attorney drafting

documents in order to secure the deal and

kept all the terms the same

i got all that done in two days

i was that was amazing i get involved

in lending too not intentionally but i

know a lot about how these things work

absolutely well you know you've been in

the industry for long enough uh you know

that uh you've seen a few things yeah

and i wouldn't recommend anyone

necessarily get into owner financing

unless you really know what you're doing

um but let me go to this one

this is uh this is where we where

lenders and this goes vice versa but let's

talk about from being the lenders being

the bad guy

They get information,

the lender is talking to the client and

they're frustrated with the agent.

How do we address, not the agent, yeah,

the client's frustrated with the agent.

How does the lender address those things,

you know,

in protecting the relationship that the

agent has with the client?

Do they, you know,

encourage them to look at somebody else?

Do they encourage you?

I hope not.

I haven't seen this much, but still,

when you get to the finish line,

we got to minimize some of the damage,

right?

Because there's things that happen.

Agents make mistakes just like lenders do.

That's Sean guy, man.

I, you know,

I think you've got to go somewhere else.

He's probably hard.

It's easier for an agent,

obviously to get replaced the lender,

but the agents normally locked in on

contracts.

No, absolutely not.

At the end of the day,

we always call it a loyalty uplift,

and you want to recognize your agents

right out of the starting gate.

Hey, by the way,

great choice in picking Sean.

Him and his team are amazing.

You're going to have a great experience.

Now,

if something happens during that

transaction,

I think the best thing to do is

just damage goal.

Look,

I've worked with Sean for a long time.

I haven't seen this type of issue pop

up before.

I promise you he's an expert.

He's going to work on this,

and we're going to work together as a

team.

That's why he employed me to work with

you, right,

is because together we'll find a great

solution that's going to get you through

to this.

And then, of course,

I'm going to reach back out to Sean

and say, hey,

I had a conversation with the clients.

They're a little fired up about this.

How do we want to go about patching

up this problem and getting them back on

the same table, right, same line?

Sure.

Devin, I got something funny to tell you.

I think we're going to have a part

three.

I've got one more topic I want to

cover and I'm going through my notes and

I still got four more left that we

can actually open.

So I want to do one more topic

with you.

Let's do it.

Let's do it.

How about,

this is a hot one for me.

And I used to have an agent in

my office that would be like, you know,

all these lenders calling me,

they want me to come work with them.

This is when I had my own brokerage,

right?

And he sold probably about thirty million

in about four years.

He did pretty good.

I mean, he was doing really well.

He was my star agent that I had.

And they'd always agents or lenders will

always call them, hey,

give me your business.

I'll take you to lunch.

I'll take you to breakfast.

Right.

And his thinking was, well,

why don't you just give me business and

then I'll give you business, right?

So how do we address that, right?

If lenders knew a way,

and I know some of them have gotten

really good on being a co-marketer on

Zillow or get leads.

Now they actually do,

most of the time agents get all the

leads,

but sometimes lenders get leads where

someone's just like,

I'm going to get pre-qualified first.

And those are super gold because they're

hard to get for a lender than it

is for an agent.

What do you do as a way of

building that with your agent partners

that have been with you for years?

Can you give them opportunities as well?

Yeah, I mean,

I think the key thing that we see

on this side of the table,

because what you're talking about is,

unfortunately,

what all lenders want to solve, right?

Like,

how do we go away from having to

go to the agent to get the business?

How do we just produce the client

ourselves?

Of course.

And the problem with that is, right,

the Mississippi runs one direction.

It just does, right?

And I'm sure if we took the resources

to transition that and get it to run

the other direction,

we sure as hell could.

But man,

would that take a lot of time and

resources to make that happen.

Right.

Yeah.

The cost of your lead is probably twenty

times the cost of my lead.

It is.

Absolutely.

It is.

And, you know,

I've always been a lead provider.

So one of the things that you and

I have talked about before is I've always

been a consumer direct.

So I've created the waterfall of leads

that are coming in, you know,

in pretty much any market going back for

twenty four years.

Right.

But most of the leads that I was

creating were refinance opportunities.

not purchases.

Purchases are a different animal,

especially when you're trying to spend

money.

Cause when you're trying to spend money to

gather that lead on the lending side,

you need immediate results to be able to

pay for the next lead.

Right.

Because most purchase transactions aren't

closing, you know, for,

for several months.

Right.

You know, when you're,

when you're starting it to the time that

you get it closed.

So where we find that data is in

the database that we,

we find it in the database.

So we outreach our database.

And if those clients are not tied to

another agent and,

and they're looking for an opportunity in

a particular area,

that's where we'll hand that off and say,

hey, I've got this great agent, John.

I think you're going to pair off well

with them.

And then we'll pass that back to you.

We're also always following up with our

database of clients.

So when we have a client that is

ready to move and they've worked with an

agent in the past,

that's how we get that back, right?

And it's nothing super creative.

It's just picking up the phone and doing

the work and doing the outreach.

But that's typically how we find clients

to give back to our agents is database.

I'll tell you one quick funny story.

In my office here,

I moved in about a year ago.

And we've got probably ten lenders here,

right?

I mean, just a ton of them.

And one of them really wanted to build

the relationship with me.

And she goes, hey,

I have a lead that came in.

Would you like to work it?

And of course, I'm like, well, sure.

Why not?

And they came in on a Friday.

I talked to him on Saturday.

And he's just one of those guys that's

going to shop everyone.

So he shopped her and he found someone

he liked better.

And by Sunday we went and looked at

houses,

made an offer and he had already switched

lenders.

And I called her and I said, hey,

by the way,

he's shopping you and you brought me the

lead.

I'm just letting you know.

Right.

And he ended up moving and she was

so mad at me.

Like,

like I could have controlled that or

stopped that.

I was like, Hey, I, you know,

I'm sorry.

I feel bad for you.

Cause I, I certainly, you know,

did everything you asked me to do and

I fulfilled and took care of the client,

but they have,

You know,

it's your conversations with them that

makes the difference.

I said, I even told him, I said,

hey, as a courtesy to me,

can you at least take your good faith

estimate and share it with her so she

has an opportunity to try to beat it?

And he's just like, no,

I don't want to because he just didn't

want to work with her.

Well, that's a whole different animal,

right?

If the person's not there and they're not

committed to that individual,

that means that they didn't do a great

job up front of really building the

relationship with the client.

And the client goes another direction.

That's not on you, Sean.

That's on the lender.

And that's a tough lesson to learn, right?

So what does that mean?

It means come up with a better process.

And the other thing that we know is

that people are going to like you if

they like you.

Right.

Like twenty five percent will love you no

matter what.

Twenty five percent are going to,

you know,

like you as long as you're tossing enough

bowling balls up in the air to keep

them entertained.

Right.

And fifty percent of the people,

they're not going to like it.

So, you know what?

Go for your twenty five percent.

You're going to have some attrition and

you build a relationship with Sean now

because you gave him somebody.

Don't get mad at him.

Right.

He may return the favor and pass somebody

back your direction.

Sure.

Well, and the guy liked me a lot.

I got along with him great.

I got him a really good deal on

a house and he's already given me his

brother.

So I know I did my part.

Bye Devin.

Close us out, brother.

And let's do it next week.

Part three.

All right.

So we're going to,

we're going to tie this one up for

today.

Hey,

thank you guys for joining in every single

time.

We're going to keep these coming back next

week.

The hot seat is still in my favor.

And then we're going to turn it back

around.

I've got some things I'm going to hit

Sean up moving forward.

So keep coming back.

We'll see you on the next one.

Thank you for dropping

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