085 | Andrew Friedman | Customer-First vs. Bartender-First Bars | Industry Spirits, Seattle WA

Show Notes

Episode Deep-Dive Analysis Available at maffeodrinks.com 

Welcome to the Maffeo Drinks Podcast! In this episode, I'm joined by Andrew Friedman, renowned bartender and ex-bar owner (Liberty, Seattle, WA) and the Founder of Industry Spirits, a Bartender-Owned Brand.

We explore the history and evolution of Seattle's cocktail scene, emphasizing the importance of customer service and the changing landscape of the bar industry.

Andrew shares his journey, insights into bar culture, and the challenges bartenders face as they transition to roles like brand ambassadors.

Whether you're a bar enthusiast or an industry professional, this episode offers a fascinating look into the dynamics of bar life and the dedication required to succeed.

Time Stamps

00:00 Welcome and Introduction

00:27 Guest Introduction: Andrew Friedman

02:50 Andrew's Journey in the Drinks Industry

04:29 The Seattle Cocktail Scene

07:23 The Evolution of Bartending

11:10 Balancing Stardom and Service

16:42 Career Reflections and Industry Insights

26:36 The Future of the Drinks Industry

32:16 Closing Remarks

About The Host: Chris Maffeo

About The Guest: Andrew Friedman

Interested in Group Subscriptions, Keynote Presentations or Advisory? You can get in touch at [e-mail] or find out more at maffeodrinks.com 

Creators and Guests

Host

Chris Maffeo

Drinks Leadership Advisor | Bridging Bottom-Up Reality & Top-Down Expectations

Guest

Andrew Friedman

Founder | Industry Spirits | Ex-owner Liberty Bar Seattle

What is MAFFEO DRINKS?

The MAFFEO DRINKS Podcast is a leading drinks industry podcast delivering frontline insights for drinks leadership.

For founders, directors, distributor MDs, and hospitality leaders navigating the tension between bottom-up reality and top-down expectations.

20+ years building brands across 30+ markets. Each episode features drinks builders: founders, distributors, commercial directors, sharing how the drinks industry actually works. Not the conference version. Honest conversations.

Insights come from sitting at the bar.

Beyond episodes: advisory for leadership teams, subscription with episode deep dives and principles to navigate your own reality.

Beer, wine, spirits, Low and non-alcoholic.

Bottom-up Insights & Episode Deep Dives at https://maffeodrinks.com

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episode transcripts.
Now let's dive into today's

episode.
Hi, Andrew, welcome to the

Macfedrick's podcast.
That would be a very interesting

conversation because we'll have
a couple of different topics to

to discuss.
But you know what I want to give

people, I mean, for those who
don't know you, I mean, like,

it's quite a global reach of a
podcast.

So I'm sure that the the
American crowd will be more

familiar with you.
But the other people?

Probably not as much.
So give me an intro about you

know who you are and your brief
history in the.

So my name is Andrew Friedman.
I'm living in Seattle, but

originally from Cleveland.
Cleveland, free Europeans out

there is a city that's you'll
never go to.

So don't worry about it's got
the Rock and Roll Hall thing.

I moved out to Seattle in 1991
and it was just before Nirvana

came out in Seattle.
There's this generation of

people before and after the the
record.

Nevermind came out and I was, I
was here two months before that.

So I got in, I worked in the
clubs and I've always worked in

restaurants and bars, cooked and
worked, you know, as in Seattle

in those years, everyone worked
in a club.

So you one way or another, you
want to be around where all the

music was.
So I worked a few clubs, I ran

some production companies or
worked with some production

companies.
And eventually being a person

that stays up late, when you do
that, you're up till 4:00 AM

every night, seven days a week,
pretty much nervous.

There's parties or there's shows
And so eventually at one point

or another, I, I started a
coffee company and started the

second coffee company.
And the long and short of it is

eventually I opened in 2006 a
bar called Liberty, which was

supposed to be just a cool
neighborhood bar.

I didn't drink a lot.
I just opened a bar because I

thought I, the coffee thing
wasn't fun enough.

So I, I opened a bar and I very
quickly found out I loved

everything about spirits and
confidence.

Who knew?
I remember the day that I had my

first glass of whiskey and I
really liked it and I thought

something there's something to
this.

This is this is pretty amazing.
And so at liberty the long just

said, I don't want to go through
the whole story, but we

eventually we're at a really
good time.

It's something we could probably
chat about is that Seattle in

2006, 2010 was when the coptail
thing really started.

It hadn't started yet in
Seattle.

There's a couple great bars.
There is zigzag.

There's a place called Vassal,
which is what shares or Janie

Boudreaux, who now owns Canon,
got started in Seattle and we

started to figure out that this
cocktail thing was pretty fun.

Now in Europe, you guys were
doing a lot of fun stuff for a

long time.
We, we caught on.

The Japanese were doing ice.
We, we brought that over here

and we were on the first places
in the country.

It's maybe one place and a
couple places in New York doing

it.
Milk and honey and such were

like making big blocks of ice
and cutting it up.

But we kind of had our own thing
going on.

And in Seattle, where the
cocktails went crazy, where the

spirits became our our religion,
really what was the main driver

of the Seattle cocktail scene
was how we had a unique view of

our customs.
There was a fellow here named

Murray Stenson, and Murray was
famous bartender here in Seattle

because he was just the best
Murr the Blur.

He would remember the stories
were that you came in once and

you had a cocktail, and three
years later you'd come in to his

bar again, You were in town,
you're travelling, and you'd

say, hey, you want another
Negroni or Nukes.

He remembered what she had and,
wow, there's something special.

Yeah, it was amazing.
And there's something special

about what he did that made all
of us say, OK, you might love to

get this special whiskey out our
back bar.

But in the end, it was about the
customers.

Such an incredible natural
evolution of how Seattle grew

because of Murray, where we go
to other cities, we go to LA, we

go to New York, we go to
Chicago, we go to Toronto,

Vancouver, and we get all this
amazing information of what

they're doing.
They do things differently.

We come back here, always came
back to the same thing.

We would absorb all of that,
whether it's the ice, whether

it's the mixing techniques,
where it's the science that Dave

Arnold in New York figured out.
But in the end, we came back

here.
But most important thing was no

matter how you took all that fun
stuff and the end was the person

in front of you, service first,
taking care of the person in

front of you became our
unrecognized specialty.

We had great bars, world class
bars.

But in the end, Chris, it was
really, we developed an

unintentional priority of making
sure that the customer's happy.

It was a great way to subvert
our ego and just, you know, if

someone's having a good day,
then we have a better day.

If someone's having a day that
that they need to just sit and

quietly, we learn to recognize
that.

And that was really the secret
to Sierra in those days.

Wow, wow.
Where you, you see the

development?
I mean, now it's basically like

20 years on, you know, like how,
how do you see things that have

changed and have developed?
For years and years we had tales

of the cocktail and Murray won
best bartender his bars Anxite

won best bar and it ended up
being a detriment to him into

the bar because it got so crazy
that just he couldn't keep up.

He was, you know, he's a older
fella.

And over the last years the the
bar star elements really came in

where we would develop great
bartenders for these great

skills of mixing, of creating,
of being great with people.

And one by one, they get picked
up by the big brands.

At Liberty.
All of our bartenders, we

started, a bartender would start
doing coffee during the day.

And they weren't a bar tender
obviously, so they'd make coffee

on the day, but they'd make all
of our own lotions and potions

and all the cool stuff that went
in our drinks.

They learned to do that first.
They do that for a year and

some, then they'd move on to do
our back when there's space.

And they'll learn more about how
to mix drinks, how to set up the

bar, how to be behind the bar,
how to react with your

customers, how to recognize
where customers want.

And that would be a good year, 2
years at least before.

So we've done, But eventually
all our bartenders started

getting stolen by other bars.
So they'd get stolen by bars in

Seattle, all the best bars in
Seattle, the best bars in

Chicago, Amber, New York, Los
Angeles.

And we realized what we're doing
something right here, but we're

losing all our best people
because we train them really

well.
And what happened is people

would forget the lessons we
learned here in Seattle, which

is that the person in front of
you is your priority, not my

day.
And I think that's been lost

quite a bit because people now
are trying to become great

bartenders, you know, to win the
awards and to get the jobs,

which I don't blame them, which
is something I'd like to talk

about is the the progression of
a bartender's career.

The bar start thing, we helped
create it and it's turned into a

bit of a gallon that's trying to
come after us a little bit.

It still exists in Seattle.
We still remind ourselves to to

be humble a little bit and and
enjoy we're doing.

That's beautiful, that's
beautiful.

No, I mean like it's, it's, it's
very, it's very interesting what

you're saying, because it's,
it's something that I'm talking

about and, and thinking like
during my analysis and

developments that, you know, I,
I feel that sometimes in some

cities as well, there's this
kind of like a rash.

I mean like what you what you
were saying it, it looks to me a

bit like a football parallel,
you know, like, I mean soccer

parallel, you know, like the the
youth team.

There are some smaller teams in
Italy, for example, now that

they are known for being the
youth, you know, they are

harvesting the nice talents, you
know, the young players and then

they go to play for Juventus or,
you know, Roma or Milan or

whatever now, But some of them
kind of like get burnt because

they move too fast.
They didn't do enough bench and,

you know, and.
They don't develop.

They don't develop.
I, I remember in the 90s when I

was more of a hardcore support
and not a not a hooligan, but

you know, I was really into
soccer and you know, you could

see these players coming in and,
you know, spending years on the

bench, You know, they would come
in for the last 20 minutes,

maybe every match.
And then they became the regular

ones.
And then then they were

suffering to become a captain
or, and this, let's say there's

no right or wrong, but it's also
a matter of like what what

you're saying, what I like and
what you were saying about this

customer.
We always talk about customer

centricity and building brands.
But sometimes it's like, where

do you draw the line between
being a star and being somebody

who's was serving?
I mean, because it's like

bartending.
That's what the world is about.

No.
So it's it's that kind of level

in which like, OK, did I come to
watch a show or did they come to

have a good time in your bar and
feel at home or, or get an

experience?
Well Chris, it should be both.

Again.
I can only talk about my bar of

the fun stories as I handed it
up to them.

After 12 years I had done
enough.

So one day I stepped them down.
I we did this thing every

Tuesday.
It was called Training Tuesday

and bartender from all over the
city would always, they just

knew they could just come by at
11 O clock and we'd have lunch

for them.
A brand would be there to do

something.
Every new friend that came up in

America started at Liberty
because Seattle was one of the

markets where they wanted to
start.

But a lot of our trainings were
about service and one thing that

we'd always talked about a lot
is that you can do both.

You could be a bar star, you
could that people come to a bar.

We were like the neighborhood
bar that did cocktails and

sushi, but really we are just a
fun bar.

And we always said people don't
leave their house to drink to

have some grumpy person in front
of them barking around them.

So people come for a show.
They come for the energy to come

to be made happy.
And, and consciously or

subconsciously, you have to
figure out every person, what do

they want?
There's a famous restaurant in

Northern California or southern,
no Southern Oregon.

And when you walk in, the person
that meets with you puts a

boutonniere on your, your jacket
of a carnation of a different

color.
And what they do is that the

first person talks to you and
judges what your mood is like.

So if you're in a good mood and
they think that you want to be

talked to, they give you a red.
If you're kind of somber, they

give you another color to your
and they figured out.

So that way every person in the
restaurant is able to say, OK,

this person wants to be talked
to, this person what does not?

And we kind of developed a way
to do that, to figure out how to

get the word around that who
what do people want?

And it was it was something how
we spoke to them.

So Chris, if you came in, you're
in a good mood, I would talk to

you.
I would say something.

I would have a conversation
while I was doing something and

a person, the people around you
would notice, OK, Andrew is

talking to a person.
So that means he's signaling to

the rest of us.
This person wants this type of

interaction.
If I see a bartender, someone

down the line who's quietly
working with someone, that's

also another recognition that,
OK, that person maybe does not

want a lot of conversation.
Maybe they want to watch you,

they just want to drink their
whiskey.

So really the goal when we are
creating this Ave. this

environment in Seattle is to
kind of figure out how to allow

ourselves to have fun, allow
ourselves to have bar stars.

But the same time, we are not in
the zoos, the lion is not the

boss.
So you want to look at the lion

and, but in the end, first
watching the lion, they're the

boss.
They're the ones that are paying

the bills.
And so we really were worked

closely to educate ourselves and
how to give that experience and

learn how to work together,
which is why Liberty worked for

12 years.
Frankly, it's still going, still

has not closed one day since
2006, has never been closed

through COVID, never closed
once.

We're the longest running bar in
Seattle.

Wow, Christmas.
And that was the.

Secret.
You know, Chris, we knew by the

third year who's going to come
in every Christmas, who's going

to come in every Thanksgiving.
These are people without

families.
These are people that needed to

be out of their house.
We were there for them every

single day.
Every single day.

That's beautiful.
That's beautiful.

Yeah.
It reminds me of my days in

Antwerp in Belgium, what I did
in my thesis.

I moved there for a few months
to write my thesis on the port

of Antwerp.
The interesting thing was that

it was on the central square.
They grow the mark, you know,

the, the central square of
Antwerp.

And there were like a couple of
bars in a row, you know, Irish

pubs.
And I, I didn't have any

friends.
I didn't know anybody.

So I walked into this Irish pub
and then I sat there and then

there was some live music, like
an Irish band playing on a

Sunday night I used to remember.
And the bartender was Hillary,

which is Canadian.
Like we're still friends.

She started introducing me to
people, you know, to regulars,

you know, And then that became
my home, basically in Antwerp.

You know, I didn't know anybody.
How long?

Ago was that.
That was 2006, 2005, so now.

We're talking about one
bartender.

Yeah, just because of who
Hillary was.

Yeah.
She was able to make such a huge

mark on your life that still
we're talking about it right

now.
That's.

Funny, yeah, in a way she
changed my life, you know,

because I took a different path
and then I met my ex-girlfriend

that I moved to Finland and then
the rest is history, you know

and then I'm here in progress.
It's interesting because like it

was the way how a bartender
could read the room and the

beauty of that was that, I mean
I didn't technically, I didn't

have phone numbers of anybody in
that city.

You know, we would just go to
that bar and meet people.

You know, I would go there
anytime of the day and it was

always open, no closing day and
there were like 3 bars in a row.

So you would basically go and
meet people, you know, maybe you

walk into the other one and then
if they're not there, they're in

the other one and then we will
move to the first one and so on.

So that's the power of this kind
of like neighbourhood bars

despite I mean, this was in the
center of the city, but it

doesn't matter.
But interesting, like what what

the on trade can do and we
forget about it, you know, like

now we see it as a money making
machine or but there is a place

in the the society for for this
kind of venues that, as you

said, I mean people without a
family, people that have an

argument at all and want to go
out.

It's a safe haven for a lot of
people.

Absolutely.
The people are listening to this

right now.
They have found their way to

listen to this because they have
that path will sound very

familiar to them.
For some reason, they have

decided that this is an interest
of theirs.

My interest happened because
I've gotten fired for every job.

I didn't quit first, so I had to
open my own businesses and I

found I love this industry.
I loved the people I loved.

Still to this day, as I go
around and I do other things,

I've started other businesses,
but some of my favorite people

are the people that choose to be
in this industry.

So people are listening for
whatever reason.

How do we got here?
We all, for one reason or

another, have had our
personalities, how our brains

are designed.
We found our way here.

The drinks industry has figured
that out, and that's a whole

conversation because the people
who listen to this, the people

who are out there interested in
the bars and spirits industry,

are the main cases for tools
that allow the big corporations

to be able to grow brands.
That day in 2006 when we were

going between those 3 bars,
Capari Group A, didn't exist as

it does today and B, they didn't
know how the power of those 3

bars, the power to get those
people that that are dedicated

to just enjoying themselves
going to three bars to then

promote their products one way
or another in the bars figured

it out and the the big brands
figured it out.

And meanwhile a lot of us just
enjoyed our going to three bars.

Science behind it.
We help create unknowingly.

It's very interesting also that
this kind of like sliding doors

kind of thing, you know that,
you know, I, I remember I was

counting for the beer industry
and I had left.

I just opened my business and I
didn't know anybody in in the

spirits world.
I mean, I knew people, but

nobody listened to me in the
spirits world.

You know, I was the beer guy
kind of thing.

I still remember when Paul Letko
in one of those rooms on

Clubhouse, you know, I was just
listening.

And then he just said like, hey,
Chris, what's your opinion about

this?
And I was like, who?

Who's he talking about?
Is he talking about me?

And then I just, you know, I
just said something and I had no

idea what, you know, because it
was very American driven.

He was like, you guys were all
Americans and talking about the

craft spirit scene.
Paul was the the founder and

just filler for a few spirits.
Yes, he's a such a good guy.

He's very inclusive.
So I can imagine I can that

moment I could just picture.
Yeah.

And and I mean we still in touch
with Paul like you know, like we

are writing every month at least
like we did, we write attacks to

each other.
And and it's very interesting

because sometimes it's this kind
of like opportunities you need

to see this put in the door kind
of opportunities and then how

you grow within the industry
now.

And I talk a lot about
bartenders wanted to become

brand ambassadors or brand
managers, brands wanted to

understand better how to work
with bars in the end.

And I remember like in it was in
BCB Bar Convent when two years

ago when I was with Alex Oziel,
my friend from Novelidante

Vermouth.
And we entered this after party

and then we looked at each other
and we, and we saw all these

bunch of like different kind of
people in this bar.

And we said, like, this is the
example of how the drinks

industry, like from a brand
perspective and the spitality

industry are actually two sides
of the same coin, but it's not

the same side of the coin.
You know, they talk to each

other.
They have a counter in common.

But in the end, they are two
different worlds, you know, the

world's of bartenders and the
world's of brand, kind of like

corporate people.
How do we manage to do this

translation that makes the
beauty of our industry?

It is.
You said it earlier.

Well, you've talked about how
the captain on a football team

would be a three-year player,
where before it'd be someone who

played for five to seven years
and struggled to gain respect

and whatever it took, that's a
big job.

And now someone might be someone
who's got a great personality

and they might be great.
They haven't spent the time like

in before.
And what you're saying is at

those events you'll see where
bartenders have been around for

three or four years and gotten
some notoriety and they're being

celebrated and I love it.
And one things because it's good

to see someone's, you know, hard
work, but on the other hands,

most of the time I found that
they're not quite ready because

it takes a lot of time to figure
out how to not just make the

drinks and be a great person
behind the bar.

But it takes it takes that time
to learn how to handle it.

Our barking Spartan is a lot of
us have big eagles.

That's why in some cases, many
cases, we do what we like being

behind the bar.
We like having a stage in front

of us.
I remember I I did a cocktail

contest.
I won in the the finals were at

Daphne Co in New York City.
I has a pack bars, the old pack

bar downstairs, big wood bar.
I realized then this is I want

to do something work because
literally it turned into a

stage.
I do, I do tastings, I do I go

to tales, other prices, I give
speeches to people.

But this is what I turn in
central entertainment, as you're

saying when you're at those
parties and you're saying this

is very different.
This is an entertainment events.

This is no longer our tender.
That's very true.

We discussed now like, and you
know, I had announced that the

podcast was, was going to be in
video as well.

And I took a step back because
at some point I started to

realize it's like it starts to
be become like a, a video

production type of company.
And that's not what I want to

do.
I'm not an influencer type of

guy, you know, like I'm, I'm
doing the podcast.

Not to be.
I chose, yeah.

I chose because you could.
You could, yeah, but I choose

not to be.
But it's a thin line because you

can develop and if you don't
have a clear brief in your

heads, you know, it's very easy
to take a step because then I, I

get a feedback from you as like,
oh, you should do videos and

then from another friend, oh,
you should do video.

And then I was like, yeah, I
should do videos.

And then then all of a sudden it
becomes a video making kind of

machine.
And nothing against videos as

such, but it's just like if you
start to become that kind of

production company, then it's
not exactly what I want to do

now.
It's also about like choosing

your path and also getting the
guidance from outside.

And I remember, like myself,
I've been dreaming of being a

director in a big company.
And then I still remember that

day, February 27th, 2019, I
still remember at the NASDAQ

closing bell with Kasberg, with
the CEO and with all the media

and everything, you know, we, we
did the closing bell.

Yeah.
I realized I was like, is that

it?
I'm not that type, you know,

wearing this suit, you know,
sometimes it feels like you tick

the box and it's OK, I've done
it now.

I proved it to myself.
But this is not what I want to

do.
I want to work with different

kind of people's smaller brands.
Sometimes you have to hit that

kind of wall to realize that or
get the guidance from people

that will spot it, like the the
example of the person at the

door sporting your mood and
giving you the tag.

Yeah, tell you another example
of my moment of that.

And so, and I'll explain why I'm
going to say it is that here in

the in the southern States,
United States, they have this

saying called lose their
religion.

What it means is that someone
loses their interest in

something and I lost my
religion.

I remember the day for spirits.
You know, for a long time we all

lionize these brands, especially
Pappy Van Winkle.

Everybody wanted that Pappy Van
Winkleberg.

We had lots of it because we
were a whiskey bar and the

distributor liked us.
We started getting a lot less

and less of it, but we we craved
it and bottles worth more than

gold to us.
And I remember looking so I was

an irate guy.
Also, this is years ago and I

saw that Happy vanwinkle.com was
available.

So I took I quickly took it
Happy vanwinkle.com and I called

up, I got in touch with Julian
Van Winkle, the nephew of the

guidance started, I believe.
And I said, Julian, that's why I

let you know patiowinkle.com is
available.

He said, well, do you want it?
And we just was basically

disinterested.
He said, sure, I'll have I said,

I don't know what to do with
this.

You just have your tech guys
give me a call and I'll transfer

it.
And he said, oh, OK.

And I said, I don't want
anything for this.

I'm just giving it to you, but
you want to happen to throw me

some more bottles at me, I'd
appreciate it.

So he sent me some peppy rye,
which the state took me most of

it anyway.
But through this experience and

also with talking to other brand
people, exactly like your NASDAQ

moment, I figured out that the
people who own these brands,

this stuff that we lionize that
we put on a pedestal, to them,

it was just a widget.
Business School they teach about

widgets.
Widget is any product and how

you sell a product.
To them, it was a widget.

It was some beer that they just
steal and they stuck in a bottle

and crazy people are paying
thousands of dollars.

And I realized, why the hell am
I?

That's a Bowman you had.
Also, why the hell have I worked

so hard to get here?
And it's like Oz behind the

curtain.
You get there and you realize

this isn't it.
This isn't what I wanted.

I'm not feeling what I thought
feel.

Yeah, a lot of people get to
there.

What I would say do, though, is
that it's like the people who

spend years and years making
their bar perfect, and they will

spend a decade focusing on every
little tiny thing in the bar.

You know, realize a decade later
that they're still making, you

know, 5070 year end of the year,
100 grand a year because a small

bar 2050 people can only make so
much money.

And I try to say to people now,
please pay attention to the next

10 years because what you want
today, I guarantee you 10 years

now you're going to want
something different.

You wanted to stay in that
NASDAQ spot.

When you got there, you said,
what the hell, man?

This is OK, This isn't it.
You want to start a podcast and

do video and you realize, well,
I don't want to.

I like what I'm doing now.
I don't want to get involved

with the whole production.
And what I would say is I like

the audio.
I love it.

The question I have, I can
interview you is where is the

industry going 10 years from
now?

Will audio be still the place to
allow you to do what you want to

do to continue to bring all this
amazing information?

I'm not suggesting you turn into
a video editor, but that is what

the bar roll is also like is
where you spend years and years

developing your craft and some
point you have to say, OK, these

are talks I used to give is
please figure out where you want

to be in 10 years.
Literally write it on a piece of

paper.
I want to be X and figure out

how to get that because a lot of
young bartenders want to be bar

stars and they want to be bar
owners and they want to own

brands.
But there's but perhaps to doing

that.
It's pretty specific no matter

what it is, but getting to that
is the real life stuff.

You have to give your rental
marathon.

You know you have to actually
start running.

Everyday I think this is one of
the most overlooked things.

I mean in life, not not even in
the in our industry.

It's like, you know, like all
this kind of like job

progression you want to discuss
like a real progression and

these kind of things that always
say be careful what you wish for

because I'm having some
interviews on behalf of the

company of a client of mine and
the people that are applying for

that position.
My question tomorrow, I mean, it

would be released later.
So where they will not find out

until I I post this.
Why do you want this job?

Is it like a salary thing?
Is it like an ego thing that

should become a director?
What is it?

Why do you do it?
Like do you like?

Because you can take different
path and different thing.

And this is what I always say to
people that say bartenders that

want to become brand ambassadors
or or vice versa, you know,

brand ambassadors that want to
become brand, brand managers.

You know, I've seen so many
people getting burned by not

going for what they're good at,
but going for what they thought

they would like and then they
don't like.

You know they spent years
getting it.

Do you know that you're going to
spend your days, you know, like

on on excel sheets and
PowerPoint presentations, you

know, like you are a super
tattooed, you know, like cool

dudes working behind the bar,
living life and, you know, being

creative.
And then you're going to be

sitting in an office.
You have those 8:00 meetings.

Editing PowerPoint presentation
back-to-back meetings.

Is that what you want?
I'm not saying you don't want

it, but ask people what what is
it going to be allowed?

You know about, you know and.
And this is the.

And that's what's so great about
your podcast, Chris, is you have

those people talking about there
for the people listening.

And I hope they listen to a
whole bunch because that is such

an important thing to talk about
how we will succeed and how

we'll grow in our lives.
And I'm going to keep saying

this for the people listening, I
hope.

But they get up and say she's
like, this is they can think

about if I'm working behind the
bar, do I want to be a brand

manager?
Only those cool people that come

by with their credit cards.
But what does it take to do

that?
Tails has those and ECB has

those, those conversations.
They say OK.

Get good at Google.
Sheets or get good at Excel, get

good at PowerPoint get good at
this and all those bartenders

are looking saying wait wait,
wait because it's the ones that

succeed aren't always the ones
that are the best bar stars

often is the best people who are
good at planning their days and

what they want to move on to
being a bar owner.

Well if you're a bartender, you
want to be a bar owner or you

want to be next to a brand
owner.

What are you steps to do that
and not everyone is told early

on that you can get bar start
today have a great time be the

life of the party get sent
around the world by brands to

help market their brands for
them.

Those steps are so important, so
important to be able to figure

out that you can't spend 10
years working behind the bar.

And then when they decide you
want to be a brand ambassador

because those guys, those women
often flame out because they've

never worked on those skills
they'd never thought about.

I need to do something best for
me.

Eventually, maybe all of us
family or maybe they do have a

family.
I need to do something great for

them.
How do you set up your life?

How do you have the recognition
you need to do that?

And what is that future?
What does it require?

Because for me, I'll just say
real fast, for me, I knew that I

wanted to keep growing and do
more.

Open to 2nd place in Seattle
called good Citizen and it was

great.
Unfortunately I made the one

stupid mistake that I tell
everyone else not to make or I

didn't get along enough lease
and they love what I did and

they took it from.
So you make mistakes but you

have to figure out what is that
next?

What is that next 10 years look
like?

And for you, I love that this is
the process because not only are

you doing something great for
yourself and your family, but

how many people listen to this?
How many people get a lot out of

there.
That's why I imagine your

listeners are growing, because
you provide a great value.

Yeah, yeah, the podcast is not a
money making machine.

It's a money eroding machine.
But in a way, like the biggest

gift for me, for example,
talking to me is those messages

that I get randomly on Instagram
or LinkedIn, you know, people

saying like, hey, Judy, you
know, I've got so much, so much

value.
I mean, you, you were one of

those, you know, like when, when
you get people that, you know,

gain value out of these things
and spend the time because it

takes time to, to write a
message, You don't do it.

It's not like a 2 minute thing,
even if it's just like, Hey,

love what you're doing, keep it
up.

You know, it's maybe maybe I get
that message on one of those

down days that I'm like, should
I continue doing this podcast

kind of thing?
And then maybe I get your

message, you know, randomly when
I wake up in the morning and

that keeps me going, you know,
so it's.

Because it says there's 10
people that steal it that don't

say it.
That's all for today's My Fair

Drinks podcast.
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