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Back on T-R-A-C-K (formerly Tea Time with Tech Marketing Leaders) is where founders learn how to build a true marketing growth engine — one that runs smoothly, scales sustainably, and supports the business you actually want to lead.
After hundreds of conversations with marketing leaders on Tea Time, one truth kept surfacing: too many founders are stuck chasing what’s shiny and new instead of strengthening the systems that create consistent, compounding growth.
Back on T-R-A-C-K is your reset. Join me and a lineup of fractional marketing leaders and founders who’ve paved the way — or are finding it in real time — as we share honest stories, practical strategies, and proven frameworks to help you get clarity, build momentum, and stay the course. Because growth doesn’t come from doing more — it comes from getting back on track.
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Unknown
Healing.
00:00:09:25 - 00:00:17:21
Unknown
Give me that.
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Unknown
back to Tea Time with Tech Marketing Leaders. I am so excited for today's show.
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Unknown
Today, today, today, today I have the wonderful, wonderful, wonderful Aileen Cusimano back
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Unknown
on the show. She was with me a few years ago where we had such a powerful, wonderful conversation about FUD, fear, uncertainty
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Unknown
and doubt and how it did not belong and does not belong in our marketing and messaging.
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Unknown
She was one of our first to start pushing this mindset, and I'm so
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Unknown
proud to see how so much of the industry has really evolved and adopted it. So
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Unknown
hats off to you, Aileen, for making that happen and being on the forefront. Today. We're going to use a bit of that messaging, but not for marketing, but for our mindset and how to reframe things through uncertain times.
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Unknown
Aileen, I'm so excited to have you here. Welcome back to the show.
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Unknown
So before we get into our conversation, you've had an incredible career
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Unknown
from being a founding marketing hire at Savitar to your
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Unknown
current role to your, previous role at
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Unknown
by Zero Trust. And you're being a founding team member of Cybersecurity Marketing
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Unknown
Society, which is a wonderful, wonderful group.
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Unknown
If you are
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Unknown
not part of that, go hit them up and get in there. It is awesome.
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Unknown
What's going on over there?
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Unknown
Really? Yes, definitely. We are going to dive into all of that way to rip off the Band-Aid and
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Unknown
give the game away. I mean, I'm here for it. Before we get there, though, I know you're all on the edge of your seats. Start. Start thinking of all the questions you have for Aileen and get them ready. Because right now, why don't you share a challenge with us in terms of what you're currently facing?
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Unknown
You know, you just start a job. What's gone on over there?
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Unknown
Yes.
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Unknown
July, you said laid off. Okay, so walk us through what happened. It was it just a company wide decision how that go down.
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Unknown
Because that's always an interesting story of how companies handle that news. So
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Unknown
what was. Yeah. How did it unfold?
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Unknown
Your.
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Unknown
Are you guys all still talk like you have? You stay connected through the whole experience? Or was
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Unknown
it just initially. And you fell off with sort of. You're still talking?
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Unknown
Absolutely a blessing. So I was July. So what did you. You said you made a plan.
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Unknown
How did that what initially went into that plan? And did you actually execute that plan, or did the plan totally change?
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Unknown
That is a really good insight, because I do find
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Unknown
that
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Unknown
it's really hard to sit with really
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Unknown
hard feelings. And so we find it easier to keep moving and avoid
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Unknown
versus avoid the feelings.
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Unknown
So you went into consulting. How did you you know I what point did you decide to get that mental health specialist. And when did you start facing some of those feelings.
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Unknown
I have a coach. I've had a coach for the last three years. Before that, I had a mentor. And I also am a big believer in therapy, so.
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Unknown
Yes. To that safe space.
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Unknown
You definitely want to be able, in my experience, that I haven't been laid off. Thank goodness. So I, I'm not speaking from that place,
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Unknown
which is a whole other world.
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Unknown
I have, hope to never experience. And I'm so, you know,
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Unknown
I can't imagine
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Unknown
but for the things that I've gone through, having a space outside of my family has been huge.
00:11:00:07 - 00:11:13:29
Unknown
Because they get into the thick of it with you and they feel with you, and that's good. And you need that, and you need somebody who's can create space where they're not in the thick of it with you, and they can help you reframe that.
00:11:13:29 - 00:11:24:06
Unknown
So talk to me a little bit about what that coach sort of taught you in moving through and, and sort of facing those feelings and then getting over the hump.
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Unknown
Them.
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Unknown
I want to pause there.
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Unknown
Tell me more about why you feel like it's still very taboo. And tell me about. We need to. I hope I was listening. We need to fix that.
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Unknown
Healing.
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Unknown
Oh.
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Unknown
And nice.
00:15:13:25 - 00:15:15:03
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah,
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Unknown
I can imagine. I, I mean, I know of so many stories of people being laid off, and it it it does take that initial sort of
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Unknown
pummel, and then you got to pull yourself up from your bootstraps. I loved the breathing aspect
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Unknown
because it's so underrated. When I, when I first moved to Guernsey, it rocked my system really hard.
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Unknown
I didn't even realize it. And when I finally found a therapist here, the first thing he made me do was breathing. He's like, you're going to breathe
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Unknown
like it's your job and like 5 to 10 times a day you're going to sit. You're going to
00:15:54:26 - 00:16:00:08
Unknown
breathe for seven in and 11 out five times like 5 to 10 times a
00:16:00:08 - 00:16:00:13
Unknown
day.
00:16:00:13 - 00:16:02:07
Unknown
Ready? Go. Like
00:16:02:07 - 00:16:13:12
Unknown
okay save it. You're going to breathe. And honestly like, wow, I was so surprised at how much calmer I was and
00:16:13:12 - 00:16:23:05
Unknown
I could feel I could be just by that. The other thing I love when I feel like I have to walk into a moment, like an interview,
00:16:23:05 - 00:16:25:14
Unknown
is this superwoman pose?
00:16:25:14 - 00:16:36:05
Unknown
Apparently there's been studies that show that if you stand in the superwoman pose for like a few minutes before you walk into any sort of important meeting, your confidence, like,
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Unknown
yeah, it's
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Unknown
your posture change.
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Unknown
You're upright, you're making yourself big
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Unknown
and you're breathing and it's all those things. And yeah. So that helps to of if you've ever seen Ted Lasso
00:16:51:14 - 00:16:54:01
Unknown
would you talks about making yourself big
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Unknown
right. You know looking in the mirror like really making yourself big to take up that space and, you know, find those moments of empowerment as you walk into those into those meetings.
00:17:04:17 - 00:17:06:22
Unknown
I just I love those tips and
00:17:06:22 - 00:17:12:20
Unknown
tricks. They're they're underrated and they're awesome. So I love that that you sort of had a little bit of a routine of that
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Unknown
breathing and that calming before
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Unknown
you entered those meetings.
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Unknown
Yeah.
00:17:42:15 - 00:17:44:18
Unknown
Studies show with gratitude
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Unknown
it ground yourself in the moment of feeling your environment around you and,
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Unknown
and thinking about something positive as well. So there's been huge studies showed that it helps tremendously in your mental health. I think it goes Brené Brown.
00:17:58:05 - 00:18:05:24
Unknown
I know that I heard her talk about the research on that, and I think that's really helpful of, again, just how it
00:18:05:24 - 00:18:08:09
Unknown
it's all about grinding. It's all about grounding you in the
00:18:08:09 - 00:18:14:21
Unknown
moment and helping you feel present. To be able to tackle anything.
00:18:14:21 - 00:18:22:24
Unknown
I love.
00:19:11:25 - 00:19:27:06
Unknown
We do at I love this. We do every Friday. We've been doing it forever. We end our Friday rush hour with gratitude, where we all go around and say one thing we're grateful for. And then one of our employees started doing something personal and something professional.
00:19:27:06 - 00:19:28:18
Unknown
And so now we do it.
00:19:28:18 - 00:19:32:23
Unknown
You do one personal grateful, one professional grateful.
00:19:32:23 - 00:19:37:13
Unknown
Which is nice too, because you get to, hear where other people are at, both
00:19:37:13 - 00:19:46:00
Unknown
personal and professionally too. So sharing your gratitude with others, I would also highly recommend. So if you're in a, if you know of somebody being laid off
00:19:46:00 - 00:19:48:06
Unknown
and you know to take a moment
00:19:48:06 - 00:19:56:23
Unknown
and share a gratitude moment with them of asking them what they're grateful for and, it's just, yeah, it's nice to be in that moment together.
00:19:56:23 - 00:19:57:14
Unknown
So,
00:19:57:14 - 00:20:02:28
Unknown
talk me through that transition of, you know.
00:20:02:28 - 00:20:11:11
Unknown
That part you said it was sort of the the you were sort of gaining an inch every day. Where did you finally see like, oh, it's work.
00:20:11:13 - 00:20:12:09
Unknown
Did you have an
00:20:12:09 - 00:20:17:27
Unknown
moment of, oh, I actually feel kind of better, which that happened.
00:20:36:02 - 00:20:38:16
Unknown
Oh.
00:22:38:27 - 00:22:44:10
Unknown
Did you find yourself turning down a lot of those? Like. Or
00:22:44:10 - 00:22:48:20
Unknown
did?
00:23:11:22 - 00:23:20:09
Unknown
What were some of the attributes you were looking for when you were going through the interview process to say, yes, this feels good or no, this is a terrible idea.
00:24:13:20 - 00:24:16:00
Unknown
And.
00:25:03:05 - 00:25:20:05
Unknown
What I love is I've had so many people on the show over the years. Who I met so many of you in person at Cyber Marketing on. And it's just so cool to see so many people know what they do and don't want. So there are
00:25:20:05 - 00:25:22:16
Unknown
so many folks out there who do want to be that first hire.
00:25:22:16 - 00:25:24:24
Unknown
They're like, yes, I get to build from the ground up. This sounds
00:25:24:24 - 00:25:27:23
Unknown
awesome to team together. Like, there are lots of those folks.
00:25:27:27 - 00:25:34:06
Unknown
And there's also one you folks in your position too, who are like, I want to be part of something bigger than me that's already
00:25:34:06 - 00:25:40:29
Unknown
underway. And what I loved about something that you said was that.
00:25:41:01 - 00:25:48:21
Unknown
The the mentor piece, I think is just underrated.
00:25:48:21 - 00:25:52:01
Unknown
I don't I don't know that a lot of people think about.
00:25:52:07 - 00:25:53:18
Unknown
What it could mean
00:25:53:18 - 00:25:58:10
Unknown
in sort of working with not only a bigger team, but to have the right folks
00:25:58:10 - 00:26:05:29
Unknown
above them that they can connect with. So what were some of the attributes in terms of that leadership that were important to
00:26:05:29 - 00:26:08:19
Unknown
you to say, oh, I can totally learn from this person.
00:26:08:19 - 00:26:10:00
Unknown
This is going to be great.
00:27:38:21 - 00:27:39:13
Unknown
I feel like,
00:27:39:13 - 00:27:43:10
Unknown
everybody has a superpower
00:27:43:10 - 00:27:57:14
Unknown
in terms of marketing of what they're great at. But to ask my. I love to tell the story. As in the case with my husband the other day, and he was asking about our our marketing efforts at IMG. And I was explained to him this sort of content notion that I was getting going and
00:27:57:14 - 00:27:58:27
Unknown
he's he's like, okay.
00:27:58:27 - 00:28:03:17
Unknown
And he's just left the room. And I was like, are you okay? Like, oh, we're done here. Are you
00:28:03:17 - 00:28:06:12
Unknown
okay? He was like, it was just too many moving pieces.
00:28:06:12 - 00:28:10:13
Unknown
And so I go to the wonderful.
00:28:10:20 - 00:28:27:08
Unknown
So yes, to that. I mean, to be to get a demand. Motion in motion takes a huge amount of resources. Not to not say from an expense standpoint, but just like you need the right people who know the right thing to get the right thing going.
00:28:27:08 - 00:28:31:27
Unknown
So yeah, I just needed to double down with you on that one.
00:28:31:27 - 00:28:36:19
Unknown
That's and say that they expect you to know everything about everything.
00:28:36:19 - 00:28:38:19
Unknown
Know to,
00:28:38:19 - 00:28:49:03
Unknown
in terms of the of how you found your current company, what was the sort of moment of pick me, pick me or
00:28:49:03 - 00:28:55:02
Unknown
congratulations, I'm picking you. You know, what was sort of, you know, when did you know you wanted to be there?
00:28:55:02 - 00:28:58:15
Unknown
And then what was sort of the vibe and and walking into, like,
00:28:58:15 - 00:29:05:20
Unknown
thinking about your journey of, you know, the layoff. I mean, that's a six month journey. That's that's
00:29:05:20 - 00:29:07:10
Unknown
an evolution
00:29:07:10 - 00:29:16:29
Unknown
in terms of how we can change in time. So what from where you were feeling when you first got laid off to that experience of feeling like you found the thing?
00:29:20:16 - 00:29:22:11
Unknown
The.
00:30:19:06 - 00:30:31:03
Unknown
Let's go.
00:30:59:09 - 00:31:03:11
Unknown
You just gotta. Gotta follow the vibes.
00:31:03:11 - 00:31:09:07
Unknown
The good vibes.
00:31:24:21 - 00:31:32:22
Unknown
Did you feel that way about any other company where it didn't go through? Or was this the one and only, like, checked
00:31:32:22 - 00:31:34:22
Unknown
all the boxes?
00:32:31:15 - 00:32:33:00
Unknown
Yeah.
00:32:51:25 - 00:32:52:23
Unknown
What was the difference
00:32:52:23 - 00:33:03:15
Unknown
in feeling between the two? Where I like it? Because it just sounds like you. You thought you had the other one? Because why? I agree ten rounds is. And
00:33:03:15 - 00:33:07:00
Unknown
I thought we were getting away from that. Folks, I'm a little disappointed
00:33:07:00 - 00:33:09:12
Unknown
that we're still having this conversation, so.
00:33:09:12 - 00:33:11:25
Unknown
But that's a different podcast.
00:33:11:25 - 00:33:28:07
Unknown
So was there a different feeling between those two of where you felt like with this one, this was definitely going through and this was this was awesome, or was it still a little bit those jitters, a little bit of feel, you know, taking the feelings from the previous one and bring that into this one.
00:33:28:07 - 00:33:29:16
Unknown
Or do you like.
00:33:43:21 - 00:33:44:11
Unknown
Yeah.
00:33:44:11 - 00:33:47:25
Unknown
No idea.
00:34:21:10 - 00:34:26:05
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Pack on and pack that all day. That's
00:34:26:05 - 00:34:42:12
Unknown
that. In Israel. I love where you are, though. In terms of your mindset. And kudos to you for doing the hard work. It is hard. You know, I know we're I don't wanna say we're sugarcoating it. We're definitely not. And maybe we're making it sound harder than it is.
00:34:42:12 - 00:34:46:24
Unknown
I loved what you said in the beginning, Aileen, of like, don't be discouraged by
00:34:46:24 - 00:35:07:11
Unknown
you know what we're talking about. It's easy to to just start with these baby steps of gratitude and breathing. And, you know, all that helps you towards a better mindset. You being a wonderful example of of all of that. But it is the consistency and the waking up every day and putting that one foot in front of the other.
00:35:07:11 - 00:35:08:14
Unknown
That is tough work.
00:35:08:14 - 00:35:16:11
Unknown
And so hats off to you for making it happen and and for the joyful place that you're in. I can feel it. I can just feel
00:35:16:11 - 00:35:54:17
Unknown
it.
00:35:54:19 - 00:35:56:20
Unknown
So.
00:36:14:13 - 00:36:19:12
Unknown
Thank you. And you guys.
00:36:20:19 - 00:36:42:15
Unknown
You do, and you did. And it's awesome. I want to I want to pivot to understanding in terms of your success story of how you found your job. But before we get there, I think we need to spill the tea on what's going on, because, it's that's it's a different conversation.
00:36:42:15 - 00:36:43:29
Unknown
And this is like a perfect spot.
00:36:44:01 - 00:37:01:24
Unknown
Perfect spot, a perfect spot. We are we are spilling it. It's going to be awesome. So Aileen and I met at Cyber Marketing Con in Philly in December and had a mind meld and, I'm going to let you tell the story line because it's really yours. And I
00:37:01:24 - 00:37:04:04
Unknown
just, I get to be along for the ride and support you in it.
00:37:04:04 - 00:37:05:08
Unknown
So.
00:37:05:08 - 00:37:10:07
Unknown
Yeah. What are we what are we up to?
00:38:37:23 - 00:38:43:29
Unknown
And that's where we are. Well, we are starting our own show called The Mindful Marketer.
00:38:43:29 - 00:39:02:28
Unknown
And it kicks off on Monday with the, wonderful, wonderful Anthony Vieira, who will be joining us as our special guest. And him and Aileen will share their journeys once again on the path to success in finding that job after being laid off.
00:39:02:28 - 00:39:16:20
Unknown
So you'll be able to hear Aileen story. You'll get to hear Anthony's story. And then from there, we're going to have one a month, and we are going to bring on experts around mindfulness. It's not going to always be about marketing, which I think is great.
00:39:16:20 - 00:39:26:18
Unknown
I think we get to take a break, break from thinking about our jobs for a minute, and we get to hang out with really great people who do this for a living on a regular basis.
00:39:26:18 - 00:39:32:20
Unknown
And we just look forward to bringing you resources about how to tackle your jobs, which
00:39:32:20 - 00:39:52:20
Unknown
are really hard, and to tackle the in-between spaces of when you're finding that next thing. So we are stoked. Please join us. I will drop a link to the episode, after this show, and then you can go and join the event and we will see you on Monday, which is a holiday in the US, MLK day.
00:39:52:20 - 00:39:59:02
Unknown
So it's a perfect day to hang out with us for an hour and have a cup of tea and get ready for the week.
00:39:59:02 - 00:39:59:17
Unknown
Just
00:40:32:02 - 00:40:36:08
Unknown
At that.
00:40:45:20 - 00:40:48:16
Unknown
Love, love. DM us for sure.
00:40:48:16 - 00:41:12:09
Unknown
Wish, before we. I was battery, Kathy. Before we, call it and call it a day here. Aly and I could talk to you forever, and I'm looking forward to continue the conversation on Monday. But I do want to share the success side of your story. We talked about the mental sort of, gymnastics you did through the journey of the six months leading into your job.
00:41:12:09 - 00:41:19:24
Unknown
But how did you find your current position? What was sort of the process you went through and and getting to work with blink
00:41:19:24 - 00:41:27:20
Unknown
ups?
00:42:49:11 - 00:42:53:07
Unknown
Yay! Networks. Yes. That and cybersecurity. Marketing. I mean, what
00:42:53:07 - 00:42:57:15
Unknown
a wonderful group of people. Gianna and Maria have really taken that and run with that. It's it's
00:42:57:15 - 00:43:07:02
Unknown
awesome. So hats off to them. And good call and really tapping into your folks. I don't know, organic stories quite like this in terms
00:43:07:02 - 00:43:13:16
Unknown
of finding a job. So what's a moment to take a leap and send a DM?
00:43:13:22 - 00:43:14:23
Unknown
And
00:43:14:23 - 00:43:22:29
Unknown
it sounds like I there's so many other DMs you probably sent leading up to that moment to so many other companies.
00:43:22:29 - 00:43:27:27
Unknown
It was it to how do you optimize your message? What just happened? Because somebody you knew like
00:43:27:27 - 00:43:37:21
Unknown
what? What do you feel like?
00:43:38:03 - 00:44:11:17
Unknown
Okay.
00:44:47:19 - 00:44:48:20
Unknown
Got it. So thank
00:44:48:20 - 00:44:58:29
Unknown
you for clarifying that. I mean, what I'm like. Ha! I imagine you get hit up by recruiters all the time, so,
00:44:58:29 - 00:45:08:16
Unknown
like, how did you know? You said you did. Do you do research every single time that a recruiter would hit you up? And then this one was, you know, happened to be the right fit?
00:45:08:16 - 00:45:08:28
Unknown
I mean,
00:45:08:28 - 00:45:12:03
Unknown
that that feels grueling. Like,
00:45:12:03 - 00:45:34:29
Unknown
is it?
00:46:18:12 - 00:46:22:16
Unknown
You don't hear many great recruiter stories, so yay for
00:46:22:16 - 00:46:42:27
Unknown
that. Yeah. For that. And it sounds like you definitely had a few doozies leading up to that. So thank you for sharing the company. Oh so good. All right, Aileen, we are going to be chatting on Monday at our, Mindful Marketing podcast. I'm so excited I can't wait grateful for Anthony for joining us.
00:46:42:29 - 00:46:50:00
Unknown
Before we go, where else can people find you? They want to stay connected. They want to learn more about your journey. Where can they
00:46:50:15 - 00:47:16:16
Unknown
Yeah. LinkedIn. You can, message me. Request me on LinkedIn. If this, you know, episode resonated with you, if you're going through the motions of a layoff, or just looking for a new role and want to chat and and swap stories, please reach out. DM me. Part of my sort of mindset going forward is, paying it forward.
00:47:16:19 - 00:47:24:24
Unknown
So many people helped me out in my community and my network while I was laid off, so I want to pay that forward now. So.
00:47:25:24 - 00:47:26:14
Unknown
Amazing.
00:47:26:14 - 00:47:52:18
Unknown
Amazing. And we're going to pay it forward. On the show, we will have tons of resources, for folks looking for jobs, from job boards to connections to all those things. So that will be part of our movement over there. So definitely come hang out with us. Last question for you, Aileen Joy, what is currently outside of work, which I know is probably a little hard to think about because you're probably absorbed by your job right now as it's new.
00:47:52:24 - 00:47:56:13
Unknown
But outside of work, what is currently bringing you joy?
00:47:56:13 - 00:48:00:29
Unknown
Okay,
00:48:00:29 - 00:48:03:12
Unknown
yay!
00:48:35:11 - 00:48:39:28
Unknown
Pretty.
00:48:45:06 - 00:48:50:10
Unknown
So far, weddings are so pretty. I cannot wait to see pictures I will be stocking. It'll be great.
00:48:50:10 - 00:49:00:16
Unknown
Amazing. I'll thank you for coming back on. Thank you for choosing me as your as your co-host partner in
00:49:00:16 - 00:49:08:01
Unknown
our upcoming show. I'm stoked. I cannot wait, everybody. I'm. I cannot say it enough. I'm. You're probably sick of hearing it I don't care.
00:49:08:01 - 00:49:09:03
Unknown
Join us on Monday. It's
00:49:09:03 - 00:49:15:19
Unknown
going to be wonderful. Join us on Monday. All right. Here we go. Thank you so much for listening. If you liked this episode,
00:49:15:19 - 00:49:20:11
Unknown
Please like, subscribe and share to this episode to help us reach more amazing viewers like yourself. This episode
00:49:20:11 - 00:49:28:28
Unknown
was brought to you by MG marketing, the digital marketing agency that helps complex brands like cybersecurity get found through SEO and digital ads hosted by me.
00:49:28:29 - 00:49:46:16
Unknown
Kari Garth, CEO and co-founder of MG marketing music mix and mastering wizardry done by the amazing Elijah Drown, my podcast sidekick. And if you'd like to be a guest on the show, I'd love to have you. Me? Let's hang out. I look forward to sipping and spilling more tea with you next week. I love pushing.
00:49:53:05 - 00:49:56:15
Unknown
All. Give me that.