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Jordan Harbinger is a Wall Street lawyer turned podcast interviewer with an approachable style and knack for securing high-profile guests. His show, The Jordan Harbinger Show was selected as part of Apple’s “Best of 2018.”
In today's episode, Jordan unpacks his secrets for finding and keeping superstars (he's had basically 100% retention in his team for nearly 7 years!), why you should be alarmed as a leader if THIS person is being successful in your organization and the book he's gifting the most to other people right now (Hint: It's a brilliant book about taking personal responsibility to live a fulfilling life...)
Leadership Conversations
00:00.43
clarityjonnowhite
Welcome to another episode of the leadership conversations podcast I am really really excited about today's guest Jordan Harbinger is a wall street lawyer turned podcast interviewer with an approachable style and a knack for securing high profile guests. His show the Jordan Harbinger show was selected as part of Apple's best of 2018. There's probably about another 5 minutes of things I could I could read but let's let's hear from the man himself. Jordan thank you so much for coming on welcome.
00:27.47
Jordan Harbinger
Um, hey thanks for having me on man appreciate it.
00:32.40
clarityjonnowhite
To start off for listeners who who may not know you can you give people a bit of a window into your world right now. What are you doing and what does it look like to be Jordan Harbinger today
00:43.46
Jordan Harbinger
And sure yeah I run the Jordan Harbinger show it's actually 1 of the largest shows in the world right now which is pretty cool I've been doing that for about just under 15 years and I interview brilliant people and make their wisdom available to everyone. That's the idea anyway.
01:00.90
clarityjonnowhite
Amazing and the leadership conversations. Podcast is is all about giving leaders a chance to pull up a chair and and have a listen to your story. So I guess for you particularly as ah as a leader and I love John Maxwell's idea around leadership that leadership is influence. And that's what I love about you because there's a lot of leaders listening who might be in a role but I look at you and I see how much influence you've had and you're having in many different spheres and I love that and that makes me go wow! This guy is is leading and influencing people so tell us a bit of your story particularly. Any moments um around a passion to influence people as you look back over your life feel free to go back as far as you want that really shaped you to become the Jordan that you are today. So.
01:49.54
Jordan Harbinger
Yeah, look in the beginning I just started learning this stuff for networking purposes and then I started using it in my dating life because you know as one does when you're in your 20 s early 30 s but after a while I realized you know these superpowers if you will of influence or persuasion. It's not.
01:59.66
clarityjonnowhite
Yeah, yeah.
02:09.38
Jordan Harbinger
About being slick or anything like that. But the very dumbest thing you can do with great influence is sort of waste it on yourself. So I wanted to help other people learn these kinds of skills but also use them. To better their careers and their organizations and their families and things like that. So. That's the sort of the genesis of the Jordan Harbinger show is making sure that other people these amazing people I have on the show from Kobe Bryant to Ray Dalio or Mark Cuban I wanted those people to be able to address my audience because it it just seemed a little bit. Look being selfish makes sense in your twenty s thirty s whatever because that's just how a lot of people are but I like to think I grew out of that and it made me sort of pivot my whole business life. You know.
02:53.50
clarityjonnowhite
And yeah, that's that's amazing and I I resonate with that around the leadership conversations podcast because I sit back and similar to you I do a lot of listening to other people's stories and their wisdom and then I think oh man I feel like I'm learning the most out of anyone unlike listener number one and. And it's such a rich experience for me and I feel like listeners get so much more out of hearing their stories. So yeah I love that approach I'm interested to know when you were when you were younger and you might have you might have shared some of this publicly before and do you remember a moment like the Jordan as ah as a kid or growing up where. I always hear leaders talk about that moment where you look around. You realize oh wow I'm actually doing I've just naturally started leading this little community in my in my school for me my niece who's seven years old was it was over the other day and we're playing a game and she's like hiring and firing people and I'm looking at her and. Has no idea I'm going wow what are you going to do when you cryp because that's not normal like she's hiring and firing people in her little imaginary game. What about for you. Do you remember any moments when you were younger where you think yeah that was ah a moment where I guess I was influencing and and and shaping things and probably didn't realize it at the time.
04:08.42
Jordan Harbinger
Yeah I mean look I was always kind of a bossy kid some of my friends didn't like it after a while but I also had a lot of influence growing up because I was always taking charge and it was like hey I'm going to do this thing. Do you want to come along or I want to learn about this thing or I learned about this thing let me teach everyone else. So. Early on you know if I really look back I did teach a lot of my friends a lot of new skills or about new things and some of it. You know, ended up in mischief as it does when you're a kid but a lot of it turned out to be really useful. You know and and I did learn a lot early on. About other people by doing things that probably weren't you know strictly legal you know I used to tap phone calls when I was a kid by tapping into people's phone lines and things like that and listening to their conversation. So I got an early education in what it was like to be an adult and face adult problems. Not. Not because I had them but because I had a sort of uncensored front row seat to other people's conversations because I was illegally listening to their phone calls. So you know when you're a kid you kind of initially when you're a kid adults are like. People who drive you places and tell you to do your homework and they're your teachers and your parents but they're never really 3 dimensional adults and I I remember sort of a few watershed moments in my life where that changed and 2 was the wiretapping thing where I overheard somebody going through a divorce and I heard him talking to. Soon to be x and his mother and then also his sister and then his friends and he was like a different person with each of those people and and you know you may have had an experience like this once I think I was in sixth grade. 1 of our teachers in the last day of school she started crying in class because she was going through a divorce. And she told us all about it and it was like 2020 hindsight kind of inappropriate but also totally made sense and we all kind of felt bad for her and so there's just few of those moments when you're that age we are like adults also have problems. This is amazing right? It's really sort of an eye opening thing I only I not only had ah. That realization. But then I got like gritty details from some of these phone conversations and so that really gave me an insight into the mind that I just kind of never in an interest into the mind that really never went away and.
06:26.82
clarityjonnowhite
And yeah, that's that's fascinating and I completely remember looking at adults the same way as as you described it when you're when you're little and and then having that aha moment that adults actually have have real problems and ah. You as you I guess fast forwarding to what you're doing now and like I said having such influence. Um, there'd be leaders listening who are ticking heaps of boxes in terms of leadership. They're managing people really? Well they're leading with vulnerability. They're they've really learned a lot about how to hire great people and keep great people. But. Influencing and getting their ideas out. There might be something that they're completely scratching their heads on I'd love to hear your sort of advice. What would you say if you're sitting one on one with a leader who's leading a great organization but going Jordan how do I sort of get our ideas out there. What? what would you say to them.
07:20.72
Jordan Harbinger
Um, honestly I'm not sure I'm an expert in that area I would say that it's very difficult to get someone's idea if you or get their input frankly, if there's not a certain level of trust and again I'm no expert in that in the organizational field. But what I've I've found is that a lot of leaders will say. I just want honest feedback and what they mean is I want people to agree with me publicly. You know they don't really want honest feedback. They punish people who give honest feedback even if it's not obvious like oh we we're demoting you. It's like maybe if if the office brown knows her is getting ahead. Everyone around you knows that you don't really want honest feedback you want a yes man and so you have to really focus on your actions and the way that things look to others as opposed to these sort of mottos that come out of corporate afternoon training sessions with a consultant. You know you you see this all all the time and you hear about it all the time where it's like some boss gets out of a training and is like all right? We're going to do this now and everyone's like oh great, the you know the revamped management thing of the week is now we're doing this and. That doesn't work. You know you need to have that trust with the people under you and the way that you do that is through long term consistent um behaviors and not like you've got inspired by watching a Youtube video or listen to a podcast. It doesn't work. It's like going to the gym to get fit. You don't go once and you're like well took care of that. You know it's a consistency thing and I I hear this a lot you know leaders will say or people who are in organizations will say why doesn't my organization trust me or why can't we get good ideas out there or like why aren't people putting their own feedback in and it's like all right if we really dig deep you find that. Well this other person who kind of looked like they did that they rubbed the leader the wrong way they ended up leaving the company or getting pushed out of the company and it's like nobody wants to sign up for that. It's easier to keep your head down and so you have to be really careful about that. You have to be very careful about that as a leader. It's not about like a trick or tactic to get people to. Give on his feedback or put their ideas out there. It's making sure that it's safe for them to put their ideas out there and.
09:28.97
clarityjonnowhite
And that's amazing advice and I think I think you're right I Love what you said about the brown noser and looking and looking at them and saying if they're getting ahead then everyone knows you're not real about saying you want authentic feedback What you want is is is yes man I Think that's a wonderful filter for for leaders to think about. Um.
09:40.74
Jordan Harbinger
M.
09:47.73
clarityjonnowhite
What about for Entrepreneurs. We. We have leaders across the spectrum. You know on our sort of listening in and and I'm interested to know for you as an entrepreneur and and really I'm looking at what you're doing and you're incredibly Successful. What have you found I Guess for you? What have you found most challenging as an entrepreneur The last. You know the past. Well, it's been a while now you've been doing what you've been doing in various things. But what have you found most challenging as an entrepreneur.
10:14.70
Jordan Harbinger
Well candidly I think you know recruiting talent is always very tough. Um, there's a lot of people out there that are not good at anything and and I say that sort of tongue and cheek of course those people are good at something. But. There's a lot of people that come into organizations that can talk of really big game but they really can't put their money where their mouth is or they can't do it consistently. They get really excited for a couple of weeks on the job or a couple of months on the job and then they move on and as a leader for a while I was like oh you know this is maybe this is on me and I realized after a lot of. Reps here. There are some people that really do deliver what they say and those people are very few and far between and there's a lot of people that are a lot of talk and you know again I used to blame myself for this but my team hasn't changed pretty much at all for let's see. Five or six years now at least and that doesn't even mean you know that and that is like me adding 1 person during that time. Ah, who is a superstar that's been with us the whole time I mean I can go back and look at the last seven years and it's pretty static so I don't think it's.
11:15.41
clarityjonnowhite
Button.
11:27.40
Jordan Harbinger
I Think that's a good enough track record where I can say Well, it's probably not my management style pushing people in and out because I don't really have any out at least not from people leaving us I would say willingly you know there's a lot of people who have failed to deliver on what they've promised and so that to me has been very.
11:29.89
clarityjonnowhite
Um.
11:44.20
Jordan Harbinger
Very tricky I don't worry about it anymore I have everything that I need but I would say to people who are leaders. You know trying to find that needle in a haystack. There's something to be said for nurturing talent. But also you got to set boundaries and I think you know leaders they'll at to the able sort of Maxim that good help is hard to find you know is it's.
12:03.50
clarityjonnowhite
M.
12:03.92
Jordan Harbinger
It's that for a reason. Um nurturing talent is 1 thing but I think people who are going into a situation I know we have to sell ourselves to get jobs to get clients to get contracts but we we have to be really careful about that because there's so many people willing to just tell people what what they want to hear. It will backfire if you are not honest because you can do a bang-up job in something and it's if it's not what you promised because you promise something that's literally impossible or outside the realm of expectation you're going to run into consequences and and that's a big problem I hire contractors all the time and. The ones that do well are the ones that say realistically I can probably do this this this and this but I'm not sure about this this this and this they'll work out a lot better even if they're delivering ah a lower sort of target than someone who goes I can crush all of these things and then fails to do so. It's like well all right. 1 person lied about their or was mistaken grossly mistaken about what they could deliver and the other person was much more candid but delivered a little bit lower I'd rather have that person because I can plan for that you know I don't want to have to guess what you're actually going to do and.
13:00.59
clarityjonnowhite
Um.
13:14.53
clarityjonnowhite
If yeah, so true. Do you have I guess from your time leading and and like you said you've had such a solid team the past six or seven years which I think is the fruit of doing this really well. But as you look back? Are there any stories where you really where you feel like you or the person really drop the ball. All that comes to mind is ah oh man like that that was an absolute crazy sort of moment or where you really got it right and nailed finding someone or or getting someone and looking them and they were happy but you managed to bring them on board and they've stayed with you ever since any stories around that.
13:49.16
Jordan Harbinger
Sorry you just cut off at the end of your sentence there. Not sure why.
13:52.35
clarityjonnowhite
Ah, sorry about that I was just asking if there are any stories around either losing. Yeah.
13:56.71
Jordan Harbinger
Yeah I heard okay I wasn't sure I heard the in. Yeah I would say there are definitely when I look back like ten years ago eight years ago whatever my career some of my other businesses and things like that I look at times where I I would hire like the only person who seemed to want to do the job. And then I would be surprised when they did a terrible job or I'd hire some I was like I don't want to pay more than x dollars for this. So I'd hire some you know literal kid who's probably like 24 26 at the time never had a real job and I'm like okay here's your big project that you're totally unqualified to do. And I'd come back. You know a week later How's this going? Well I haven't really managed to do it. But I'm playing a lot of Warcraft and I'd be like this idiot and I get so mad at them and you know can them or penalize them doctor pay what and then I realize well I'm expecting a cat to bark like a dog here. This is a kid. They're not going to be capable of creating this big learning system that I had in mind I mean it's absolutely ludicrous to think that they would this person is lazy. They don't have it. They need to be micromanaged. They don't want to be managed at all. They read the 4 hour work week. Their idea is to work as little as possible. We're a startup that's not going to work like. Obvious like cultural mismatch and you know it's banging against your head against the wall and sort of being surprised when you don't get the results you wanted. That's at some point that's your fault right? like it goes in hand with the you mentioned before you know I'm going to recommend a book but at some point it's like that's your fault.
15:11.33
clarityjonnowhite
That's what.
15:21.83
clarityjonnowhite
Yeah, yeah.
15:30.87
Jordan Harbinger
For asking somebody to do something that literally they'd have no ability to do. You could hold their hand the whole time. They probably still wouldn't be able to do it. You know.
15:37.64
clarityjonnowhite
Yeah, yeah, ah I guess so say hypothetically something happened around the the Jordan harer show where you know you had some some venture capitalist or someone comes along and there's and it's an awesome opportunity. But it means you need to overnight go and and hire 10 more supers. Stars to do x y or z what would you? How would you go about doing that if you had to bring on a bunch of new people and go and find great talent in the market right now.
16:07.38
Jordan Harbinger
Right now I mean right now I'd ask my existing superstars to recommend people because it's not a rule. But if I put a job or a job out there I'm going to get 7000000000 applications back. But if I ask for referrals from people that I trust when I say my superstars it doesn't even have to be people that work here. Those would be the best people to request from but there's also going to be people that I just know who are really good I'm going to put my feelers out to my network and say this is what I'm looking for. Because they most people in my network of course they're going to be conscious of their own reputation. They're not going to recommend somebody who they just happen to know is unemployed. That's not going to be a good look for them. So I'm going to want a referral I'm going to want a warm introduction because that is always always always the best way to find the best people. The other thing I'm going to do is.
16:50.67
clarityjonnowhite
Yes, it.
17:02.53
Jordan Harbinger
Pay above market because superstars know that they are worth more than their colleagues because they have worked before and they go gosh I'm the one towing the entire weight around here I'm basically doing the entire project for my division. My manager is more or less useless. The other 3 people in the department are.
17:21.19
clarityjonnowhite
Yeah.
17:22.00
Jordan Harbinger
Mailing it in they know that whether they're going to be. They might be too humble to admit it but they know that and so when they're looking for a new project. They're going to be looking to get compensated for that and as a business owner. You know I I understand it when you run a restaurant and need a bunch of line cooks you pay x dollars an hour because that's market in your area if I want to get something done and it's important. It's and like a very important opportunity I'm going to overpay because I want the best talent I mean I live in Silicon Valley that's how it works here. There's a reason Facebook is paying more than.
17:44.33
clarityjonnowhite
M.
17:54.20
clarityjonnowhite
Um.
17:54.66
Jordan Harbinger
I don't know Oracle one they have to now because the reputation sucks but 2 they want the best people in whatever niche it is. They can't get them if they're like oh yeah, well we're paying the same as everyone else except for you get to look at Mark Zuckerberg going to and from his car lucky you know it's about. You know if you you woo them with a mission but then it's like you know these people can up and leave especially if they're really talented so pay through the nose money is not what you're trying to optimize for here. So.
18:21.41
clarityjonnowhite
Yeah, yeah, that's that's such good advice and it reminds me I literally have a local business that I noticed always has great staff and I asked some of them 1 time I was like I'm not trying to poach you anywhere else. But where did you guys find out just because I kept noticing. They've got like lots of different locations. And every time I'm there. They they just have excellent people and I just asked some of the staff and they said oh we they don't put job ads out. They just ask us to refer friends and it's so funny. They're just like a little local in Brisbane like a bunch of different different locations but it's exactly the same sort of idea that you said there get your get superstars who work for you or in your network to refer people.
18:46.42
Jordan Harbinger
And fifth.
18:58.78
clarityjonnowhite
And then be willing to pay through the nose.
18:59.74
Jordan Harbinger
Exactly and of course you know they're going to get along. You're not going to get some weird cultural fit because your head server recommended her roommate who she's lived with for 3 years that works at a different restaurant so they're going to work well together probably.
19:13.58
clarityjonnowhite
Yeah.
19:15.86
Jordan Harbinger
Or at least better than some other person who comes in and is like a total train wreck you know you want that kind of thing and since their reputation is on the line. They don't want to bring in somebody who's terrible because they actually care they're going to have to see that person every day. So if they reverse somebody. And that person stops showing up. It makes them look bad. They are not going to want to risk that when you get a job I mean especially you're talking about a place that has like food service or or other entry level jobs I mean turnover is huge in part because you know all the high school kids college kids here in the United States doing that. It's hard enough to find somebody who's going to care about that. So you really do have to find professionals and the way you do that? is you say hey I know you make a hundred bucks a day over at this bar. What about one hundred and twenty five bucks a day and also we will never put you on 1 of your days off without you giving us explicit permission. You know or or some other sort of benefit where that that says we actually care that you have a life outside of work and we're not going to jerk you around and you know in the United States we have like benefits issues and I can't remember where they start something like you got to work 40 hours a week so there's stories galore on Reddit of like.
20:25.40
clarityjonnowhite
And.
20:27.73
Jordan Harbinger
Restaurants or whatever it is or major chains putting people on 35 hours a week so they don't have to pay benefits and nothing says I don't give a crap about my employees and my team like making sure they can't get health care or something along those lines you know so you have to really be. You know what? I've noticed.
20:38.85
clarityjonnowhite
Yeah, so.
20:45.78
Jordan Harbinger
I don't know if this is just a Us thing. There's this whole sort of we're 1 big family over here at Jordan harbinger farms come work with us and what family means is we're going to ask ridiculous things of you all the time but it's because we're family but the second you need something like hey things aren't going well for me I need some time off. That old family thing goes out the freaking window and then suddenly you're out on your ass and it's like well wait a minute I thought we were family. Yes, we're the kind of family where we have you do things for us. But as soon as you need something from us. It's f you and and that's that's what a lot of times that actually means so I would almost say as a job tip beware of. Never put. We're a big family in your ad in your joblicate or your ah ah ad because it's going to sound like that to a lot of people and also it's not freaking true and if you see that in a job ad don't. Necessarily assume that they mean they're you're going to be treated well. Some families are highly dysfunctional and usually they're the ones where in the job application. It says we're going to treat you like family. They don't mean like your family. They mean like a family you wouldn't want to be a part of most of the time. So.
21:55.46
clarityjonnowhite
Let's say good I love it. Ah well let's ah, just ah to sort of land land the plane today Jordan let's jump into leadership Express I'm just gonna ask you a bunch of questions you're ready. What's a book that you've gifted a lot to other people.
22:06.21
Jordan Harbinger
Sure.
22:13.65
Jordan Harbinger
I've gifted this book called extreme ownership by Jocko Willink I'm I'm sure people have talked about it on your show before but it's great. What I mentioned it before or when I mentioned before that you know at some point you making Xyz mistake is your fault. That's what extreme ownership is all about it's ok. Maybe this person did steal from you. They're a bad person. Why what part of this is your fault slash in your control. Oh well, we didn't run background checks on our ah cash handling staff. Okay, so that's something you can change. You know you can't change that creepy criminals are applying to your stuff so you look up and down the chain or especially at yourself. For what you can own and so like I said with that guy I hired a long time ago who was just a kid and couldn't get anything done that was actually my fault. Yes, he was useless. Why did she make it that far in my hiring process and in my organization. Well, that's on me i.
23:05.39
clarityjonnowhite
Yeah, great recommendation and great advice. What's a time management or productivity tip or a tool or resource you use.
23:13.85
Jordan Harbinger
I live by my calendar and a lot of people go no no I mean like a fancy thing. No don't ask about a fancy thing I never allow people to do that because I go what's on your calendar for the day and there's like 1 or 2 things on there and it's a phone call and the rest of it's blank my day is planned out in.
23:27.87
clarityjonnowhite
M.
23:32.28
Jordan Harbinger
Little increments everything from basically when I wake up to to the end of the work day in any case is blocked off and what that does is it makes sure that I have time to do everything because it doesn't say I don't have a to do list that says do all your emails I have an hour for email in the morning and when that hour is up. It doesn't matter if I'm at 0 inbox that I stopped doing email and so I don't I get more done in one day than most people do in the better part of their week and the reason is because everything is planned out I don't have to think about what to do next on a daily basis I just look at my calendar and it's probably been there for two weeks already
23:58.96
clarityjonnowhite
And.
24:09.42
Jordan Harbinger
And and people go well, there's no flexibility in that. Yes, there is I build the flexibility in there you know I might make a 90 minute lunch and so if something has to run over or I have to go run some errand or get a phone call in well I can do it during that time and then I still have time for lunch. So I don't ever have this like. Oh my gosh I've got to eat and be on a conference call and be driving that literally never happens to me because I plan better and.
24:32.42
clarityjonnowhite
Yeah, that's amazing. Ah, speaking of advice. What's a great piece of advice you've received at some point.
24:39.47
Jordan Harbinger
Oh good question. Um a good piece of advice that I've received at some point I mean it's probably 1 of those old like Oprah cliches where it's like when people show you who they are believe them you know I I've routinely sort of given people. Another chance or another chance here or believed an excuse about something and it's like well nope your actions were pretty clear. You are kind of a you know pos I should have paid closer attention and I had business partners for a while that were just. Candidly like kind of crappy people that were never going to succeed and I towed them along for a long time and one of the reasons that I did that was I was I believed a lot of the nonsense instead of just looking at their track record as humans and being like oh yeah, scoreboard says you're never going to do what it takes to be successful I should just bounce. So I stayed in that business for a really really long time and then when I left it was kind of funny because they were like you're never going to succeed on your own. You couldn't possibly redo all these things we've done and but and then within like eight months I'd already had my business where that old business was after 11 years in terms of like gross revenue and so that. Told me everything I need and now we're like you know, 20 times the size so that told me everything I needed to know about how long I stayed in that business.
25:56.66
clarityjonnowhite
Yeah, that's that's incredible. Well just to wrap things up where can people find you, you've already mentioned the show but can you just mention that again and and anything right now that you're particularly passionate about that people can jump into and find about you. Jordan.
26:10.37
Jordan Harbinger
Sure? yeah, the Jordan Harbinger show HARB is in boy I n is a nancy g e r the Jordan Harbinger show Spotify Apple Podcast wherever you listen to show. Yeah your pods and or Jordan Harbinger Dot Com I'm just stoked about growing my show. You know it's one of the we were number 20 for most downloaded show in the United States in December so that was kind of cool I'm just excited about that I've got a new baby who's a month old so I am restructuring my work schedule so that I can spend lots of time with my kids so I'm done by 4 or four thirty every weekday.
26:37.37
clarityjonnowhite
Wow.
26:47.84
Jordan Harbinger
Because my son comes back from school and I'm like I'm just going to not do any other work and play with my kid and I don't I never met anybody that regretted spending spending too much time with their kids. So I just decided to start early and do that he's only about 3 So.
27:04.10
clarityjonnowhite
I Love that that's amazing. No, that's that's great. Yeah, yeah, that's congratulations.
27:04.61
Jordan Harbinger
So that's what I'm excited. That's what gets me in the morning but pete for I know your audience doesn't care. But yeah, yeah, yeah, it is nice I I'm glad that I'm doing it and but ah I would say you know the ah the thing that your audience actually cares about is scaling the Jordan Harbinger show and the guests that I have on are also. You know they light me up. It never feels like work i.
27:23.71
clarityjonnowhite
So yeah, thank you for sharing that and I know that's always what leaders talk about is is family. Ah well um I just want to say a massive. Thank you to you Jordan for coming on the show and and also to our listeners. Don't forget you can check out the leadership question of the day.
27:29.76
Jordan Harbinger
Yeah, yeah.
27:41.37
clarityjonnowhite
I put a stone in your shoe around leadership and the John O White leadership podcast. There are a couple of other podcasts we have but I just want to finish by saying thank you Jordan for coming on and um, it's been. It's been a joy and yeah, just one of the highlights of of my month having you having you on here. Thank you so much.
27:58.59
Jordan Harbinger
Thanks! Thanks! So much man, really appreciate it. You.