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Welcome to "Visionary Voices" the podcast where we dive into the minds of business owners, founders, executives, and everyone in between.
Each episode brings you face-to-face with the leading lights of industry and innovation.
Join us as we uncover the stories behind the success and the lessons learned along the way.
Whether you're climbing the corporate ladder or just starting your business journey, these are the conversations you need to hear - packed with visionary voices and insights.
Let's begin.
So Kendra, thank you so much for joining me on today's episode.
Can you give us a top level view of what it is that you do right now and your journey so
far?
Absolutely.
I founded the Vend Group about seven years ago now and essentially we're a boutique
consultancy focused on training and development for organizations of all sizes but really
dialing into the 200 to 2000 employee mark and we really work with mid-level leaders
specifically on managing, communicating, setting expectations, essentially the whole suite
of soft skills.
So we work with anybody that's director level and above, but we also run workshops for
team wide to foster communication and connection within their teams.
So yeah, I think to summarize our three pillars, thank you, thank you, yes.
Our three pillars would be connection, communication, and commitment or accountability.
very, very cool.
So how did you get into the business thing?
Because it's quite an interesting space to be in, right?
And you tackle the softer skills, which are as you spoke about before, the hard skills,
right?
So how did you get into that side of things?
And what was the journey there?
I say that I kind of tripped and fell into it.
A little bit is, you know, growing up with these soft skills or having to utilize these
soft skills my whole life.
That looks like, you know, mediating different, different family conversations or friends
conversations and just kind of finding myself in those positions naturally and
organically.
And then throughout my journey, I was moving up through different leadership levels and
I've worked across, you know, five or six different industries.
And I always noticed that I was able to build rapport and gain the respect of my teams
because I knew how to speak to them.
I knew how to speak to their motivators and we had a great deal of respect between one
another because I could speak to their intrinsic motivators.
so, you know, after kind of going through my career, burning myself out, coming back from
it, I recognized that as all good businesses are formed, there is a need for soft skill
training.
We focus a lot on hard skills and the development of hard skills and we did even more so
10 years ago.
So at that time I said there's a big gap in the industry and a need for that soft skill to
enhance that hard skill training and that's how the Venn Group was born.
Yeah, such an interesting journey, right?
Going through that period of being burnt out because I think, you know, people working
jobs, they do feel like that, right?
They're very much burnt out.
They don't really know what to do.
So, I mean, if you could give a piece of advice to maybe yourself when you're going
through that period, what would it be?
Because that situation is obviously not a nice one to be in.
So what advice would you give?
Definitely.
One of the biggest, I think the biggest aha moments for me going through burnout and also
that I'm seeing with a lot of our clients is that burnout isn't always physical.
It might manifest physically, but a lot of the time the root cause isn't a physical cause.
It's not that you're working 12 hours a day or you're staying up late at night.
Of course that contributes to it, but there's always something more on the mental or
emotional side, like not feeling fulfilled in your role.
not being acknowledged for your contributions, maybe no clear career path.
You don't know where you're headed next, so you kind of feel like you've hit a dead end or
a plateau, and that can be really demotivating.
And so when we let that sit and we're not actually addressing those things, then they show
up and manifest as physical burnout as well, paired with long hours, of course, but just
understanding what the root cause is.
Yeah, do you know what, that's so interesting, because I'm currently thinking about a
couple of clients that I've worked with and looking at their team and looking at retention
rates within the team and wonder why they weren't retaining staff and everything.
it was quite, essentially what you said, right?
Where they're coming in full of motivation, full of energy, that starts to die down
because there was no real progression for them.
And then eventually they get burnt out and they move on to something else.
And so I think that's so true, right?
It's not always physical.
It can be other things and your intrinsic motivations as well.
So, I mean, moving forward and pivoting away from that period of burnout and moving into
starting the business.
I mean, what was it like in the beginning stages of the business from, I guess, the
entrepreneurial journey, right?
Like, how did it go for the first couple of years and what were you working on then?
Yeah, it was, I guess the best way to put this would be it was was messy.
It was messy.
Yeah.
And, you know, I'm really fortunate to have such a strong community around me and those
who have supported me.
And, you know, on the moments when in the early days, I said, What am I doing?
Why am I doing this?
They said, You believe in this so much.
We believe in you keep going.
Don't give up, you know, just successes around the corner.
And so I attribute a lot of my success to the people that I hold near and dear to me and
who have mentored me through that.
But at the beginning, it was really kind of navigating a path that I didn't have clear
directions for.
And so there was a lot of trial and error, a lot more error, I'd say, than trial really.
And it taught me a lot of valuable lessons.
But honestly, I think looking back, it's
gave me the understanding of also how I make decisions.
And so that helped me to identify patterns and then look forward and say, okay, how do I
stop making these patterns, especially as I want the Venn group to grow?
But yeah, it's a journey that's not for the faint of heart, I would say, but if you have
resources around you that can support you and you also confide or seek the advice of
people who have been where you wanna go, then you make a...
many fewer errors than I did for sure.
I mean, there's that quote, isn't it?
Where business strategies where, you know, you have a limited options and you've to pick
just a few of those options, do it for a period of time, which is unknown, and you won't
know when the results are going to pay off, right?
That's what business strategy is all about.
And so it is very difficult.
And I think everyone goes through that those those trial and errors and even when you are
big and you are, you know, a huge company, you still go through trial and errors, right?
As a big company.
it never ends, I guess, is what I'm trying to say.
And so yeah, I think a lot of people can resonate with
with that trial and error side of things for sure.
What sort of lessons did you learn throughout the beginning stages of forming the company?
Because I think for a lot of people, it's a big shock, I think, to the mindset of things,
especially when you come from corporate and maybe you go into business.
So in terms of mindset shifts, what have you seen there in yourself?
That's a really great question.
you know, just to piggyback your question off of the last thing you said where the trial
and error never ends, I think that was one of the biggest lessons is it's not going to
stop.
So how do you become more resilient?
And what's that fall down, get up time?
It gets a lot shorter the more you do it and you just move on to the next opportunity,
right?
So I think that was one piece.
And for me, the mindset shift really came into
Nobody's handing me these opportunities.
And I remember a good friend of mine, we went for coffee and I must've been, I don't know,
looking for somebody to commiserate with or I was complaining about something and she
said, well, Kendra, the beautiful thing about this is you're the hero of your own story.
So if you don't see an opportunity, you would go out and create it.
And that's exactly what you've done.
Why aren't, why are you stopping now?
And anytime I see something or a barrier or a roadblock, that's what I tell myself is
you're the hero of your own story.
create your own opportunities.
If you don't see it, find it.
And really, you your only obstacle is yourself.
and the other thing that helped me switch my mindset was just have the trust and the trust
in what's meant for you will be.
And I know that sounds kind of fluffy and woo woo, but, on the heels of every rejection or
disappointed, a disappointment, something else came that was better and bigger and more
aligned.
So the pattern of that has really proven to be true.
Yeah, again, I completely agree with that because it's so interesting.
There is a saying around it and I'm going to butcher a little bit, but it goes along the
lines of, know, when we live life and we make mistakes and everything, we can't understand
it in the moment.
But when we look back in life, we can connect the dots and be like, okay, we got to this
point because we went through these failures, these experiments, this whatever it is.
And that's how we got here.
But when you're in the moment, you can't figure out how these dots are going to connect.
And so I feel like for myself, like giving myself that grace, I guess, that space, like
this is what's gonna end up to be in the future in the moment.
Okay, it's gonna feel a bit rough, but just know as you said, right, everything's gonna
work out as long as we do the daily actions we need to do and the tasks that we need to do
to keep moving forward.
Absolutely, even 1%, right?
Yeah, I love that.
Yep.
more towards the work that you're doing in terms of day to day.
So what type of companies do you work with then when it comes to like this leadership
communication and everything?
Yes.
So that one, I know everybody says to really niche down and we, have, my answer used to
be, if you have people you need to communicate and you have different levels, layers, or
departments, then we will work with you.
but where we've kind of organically found our home is in three different sectors.
So that's in the tech space, just because they scale, they grow so quickly and you need to
have a solid foundation to build upon.
so we give them, you know, we work with a lot of tech.
companies on what does that leadership level look like?
What's our common vocabulary?
And do we have aligned criteria for performance management, things like that?
The other two industries that we've really started to build a name in is manufacturing,
because there are a lot of changes and there's a lot of the way we've always done it
there.
So we're looking at new generations of leaders coming in and those who are looking to
shake up the industry a little bit.
and work with four different generations on the shop floor, which can be quite challenging
for some.
And then the third industry is the design industry.
So design, architecture, and that's because the decision-making process in that specific
industry, it used to be one or two decision-makers at the table, and now that's expanded
to have to get the buy-in from four or five, sometimes up to 10 people.
Yeah.
And so we've partnered with a company that does research and development called ThinkLab.
And we take some of their quotes, that's one of them, about how much the decision-making
process has changed in that industry.
And it's really quite fascinating.
But it requires a lot more communication and a lot better collaboration to be able to push
projects forward.
Yeah.
That's so interesting.
Just circling back to what you said about manufacturing as well.
Cause like the way I guess a lot of people envision manufacturing processes, right?
It's very rigid, right?
This is what it is.
It's how the structure of things.
So why do you think it's starting to shift a little bit and becoming more of, you a little
bit more flexible for them to want to change and grow and everything.
Like, why do you think those changes are
I think one of the pieces is that we have more generations in the workplace than we ever
have before.
So there's different values, there's different expectations, different ways of doing
things.
And a lot of the time, know, that kind of archaic, the way we've always done this mindset
isn't actually the best way, but it's the most comfortable and complacent way.
Sometimes it works.
Sometimes we need to shake up a new process in order to innovate so that we don't get
you know, these, these industries don't die off in place of their competitors who are
innovating.
Or, you know, with, with the, with AI coming into play and with people being able to
operate quickly, there's Amazon, there's more logistics companies than ever.
So I think that manufacturing as a whole has changed and will change.
And it needs to expand a little bit, especially if they look to cross borders and move
globally.
the movement within the world has changed a little bit in how people are doing business.
But I really think that it's the generational expectations that are causing a bit of a
change in that industry.
Yeah, that's such an interesting insight because I've never quite thought about it in
terms of a hierarchy of a company where, you know, the more generations you have into it,
the more conflict, right?
The more difference of opinions that people are going to have the personality types and
everything.
So it's a very interesting way to look at it.
Like the older generation might be, you know, this is the way we do it.
That's what we're to run with.
But then the younger generation are like, no, we're not, we're not doing, we're not doing
that just yet.
We're going to, we're to do it this way.
So how does it work when you're trying to mix these groups of people together and get
them?
on the same page and talking the same language.
What does it look like for you?
That's a great question.
And this is where, I mean, I just say, forget everything I just said about generations,
because I find that we focus so much on categorizing people into these generations that we
need to pull back and we need to look at who are these people as individuals and not
blanket them.
Although, you know, it's human nature for us to categorize people.
But we do have a proprietary assessment that we run with our teams.
And that allows us to look at communication and working styles and to look at individuals,
what their preferences are, the way in which they show up every single day, and ultimately
the microculture that they bring to work, which also dictates their decision making
process, their behaviours, and the expectations they have of that role.
So that's one piece is that we look to level set with everybody as to who is the person in
front of you.
It's not a...
a Gen Z, a Gen X, a Gen Y, but it's an individual that you need to collaborate with.
Let's look at the makeup of who this person is and what they value.
So really removing some of that, you know, those stereotypes, I suppose we should say.
And then getting super clear on what is the expectation and what is the criteria of the
organization itself.
So when we have alignment there across a peer level or across an organization
holistically, then it makes it easier to remove some of the subjectivity and the opinions
of you like to do it this way because you've just been doing it this way for so long.
Instead it's no, this is process, this is our expectation and you're aligned or you're not
at the end of the day.
No, very interesting, very interesting.
I when it comes to, I guess, the startup or like the scaling up type of company, because I
think a lot of our listeners are in that point.
Like a lot of the things you said, like how can they apply it at the level there and
incorporate these strategies?
So when they grow and they scale, they have, I guess, those systems in place to be
flexible and be able to maneuver a little bit more.
Like, what does that look like as well?
Yes.
So for them, it's, it starts, it sounds so basic, but the number of companies that don't
do the simplest things when they're starting out job descriptions, roles and
responsibilities start there, give people something that they can refer back to.
Otherwise you run into a mess of either nobody's doing anything or there's so much
redundancy that three people are doing the same job.
so get crystal clear on who you need doing what, and that might look like multiple hats.
But start to figure that out and then communicate that and continuously have that
conversation flowing of does this make sense for you in your role?
What is your capacity in this role?
Is it too much?
Is it too little?
So start to really assess and triage the resources you have available to you and that our
team members do as well.
so as especially those startups start to scale up.
they start to have an understanding of where their gaps are and where they're solid based
on, you know, a solid organizational structure.
And that will shift and change.
And that's also normal, but start with understanding who does what and why they do what
they do, how that contributes to the overall goal and make sure you're communicating about
it.
You know, we see so many startups just start to form these silos with their departments.
And then at the end of the day,
there isn't an understanding of what one person's contribution at the start brings and
carries through to the end.
And that also just demotivates people.
So not only is that an understanding problem holistically for project management, but it's
also a retention issue.
I know very, very interesting.
It's being, I guess, methodical, right?
And objective with, okay, this is what we need to deliver.
Okay, how do we need to deliver this?
Or we need these three people doing these three different things and then being scientific
and objective with it.
Because I think the difficulty is if you're in a scale up or startup, which is scaling up
very quickly, you think you need to hire this, this, this, this.
And I think we saw a lot, you know, the tech space, especially in 2020, 2021, when a lot
of the tech companies were booming and hiring a lot.
And then we went through mass redundancies with them because they're like, we don't need
these people.
Why do we hire them?
and so you can avoid, guess, that by being really methodical with it.
And I did speak to someone a few weeks ago now on a podcast and we're talking about how
when she built her company, she scaled up very, quickly.
And she said it was too quick because she went through all those different problems,
right?
Where you're hiring for the sake of hiring.
Cause you think you need it and you're not taking that objective view towards it.
Definitely.
And one of the things that in, in, you know, one-on-ones that we have with leaders and the
people who are actually doing the work, they say, I feel so underutilized in that role.
Meanwhile, you know, the, the decision makers are hiring and hiring and hiring.
So I think that there's a lot of, lost productivity on just not understanding the
strengths of the people on our team and what they can actually do and contribute.
They feel underutilized and yet we're still bringing more people on just because we don't
know how to manage.
Yeah.
and their strengths properly.
So that's a really good point.
no, I never thought of it that way as well.
Like seeing the company hiring, you're like, I'm kind of stuck here.
Like we need to do more, whatever, but they're hiring more anyway.
It's a disconnect between leadership and everyone else, right?
So no, very interesting.
So what do you think is probably one of the biggest tips you could give to a company that
realized, we know we need to go through change.
Where should we start with it?
Because I think change is a big scary word because...
Where do you start with it, I think, is what I'm trying to say.
So what would you give as a advice piece to them?
To the leaders making the decisions, don't make that decision unilaterally.
I think you need to speak to, and this isn't to say everybody and their mothers need to
come to the table, but you need to speak to the folks who are doing the work.
Get their opinions, understand what they're going through, see if your assumptions about
change are actually validated, and then get their perspective on how that change could be
better introduced or what change might be needed.
A lot of the time we see leadership and we sit in leadership meetings and they'll be
talking about all this change or things, new initiatives they need to put forward.
And then when we go out and have conversations with the team, it's like, that is
absolutely not what's needed here.
to your point exactly, there's a huge disconnect.
So involve the people who are actually doing the work, get that communication flowing two
ways because at the end of the day, you're going to save yourself a lot of time and energy
on
on the back end when you can have those conversations up front.
Yeah.
when you say that, what I'm thinking about as well is in the business sense is when people
build up products that they think the market would need, but not actually what they need,
right?
It's the same type of thing, right?
Where you're implementing all these changes because you think that's what they want.
But the easiest way to know what they want is to go talk to them, right?
Build the relationship, have those communication skills with them and that time to really
understand them as a person.
It's so interesting.
The theme of the last few podcasts unintentionally has been about how
relationships are really making a comeback in the workplace, within business, within sales
marketing, everywhere that we're seeing after a period of such just, know, software as
tools and rigidity and structures and everything.
And so it's very interesting seeing this across departments, across industries, no matter
where you are, relationships, the trend is very much up, right?
You build those relationships and that's really gonna solve a lot of your problems when it
comes to what you need to do as like a next step within the business.
Absolutely.
Yeah, we're moving away from transactional, thank goodness, and back to those
relationships.
And it's easy to point the finger at somebody who's just, you know, hiding behind a
software on the other side of the world with a team versus, you know, I'm getting to know,
I don't know, Jim on the other side of the world.
And I understand the things that he actually does and that go into programming this
software.
So really humanizing some of those tools that we use.
and making them effective.
At the end of the day, the tool is only as effective as the person who's using it or the
team that uses it, right?
yeah, no, no, exactly.
Where do you foresee the future of, you know, these these communication skills and, I
guess, learning and development for leadership going because although we were seeing this
comeback of relationships, of course, things like AI, as we spoke a little bit earlier, is
all coming into play and a lot of companies are looking to adopt it.
So how do you think that plays a role in the future of of, you know, learning and
development and leadership?
Definitely.
Yeah, it's a really great question.
And I would double down on what I just said that, you know, the tools are only as useful
as the people that provide the input or the people that use them.
And you need people to buy into some of these tools and this change in order to have a
full adoption rate, because it is scary for a lot of people, especially those who feel
like AI is going to take their job and things like that.
So one of the things that I see with communication
training and the importance of it moving forward is that no matter what we need to be
communicating with each other.
We need to be communicating with the robots, the AI, like we're still going to have to
have that communication proficiency.
And so that's never going to go away, but it will get more convoluted and we will need
more discretion.
And we'll need more problem solving in the age of, in the era of AI, because we're going
to have to discern.
Is this actually, you know, is what I'm inputting or prompting chat, GBT, for example,
actually portraying what our brand wants to portray?
Am I actually giving the client the right advice?
and so I think that that's, it's just as important, but going back to what you said about
relationships, you know, with everybody kind of sounding the same in using AI as well, the
ones that stand out will be authentic.
They'll be able to build those relationships and that's.
baked into our biology, in my opinion.
Yeah, we need community.
We thrive on connection.
And in seeing that loneliness is becoming a massive epidemic, we will start to lean and
rely on human connection more and more.
And that requires being able to converse in person, on the phone, over video.
So it's getting people more more comfortable with the ability to do that as well.
Yeah, for sure.
It's so interesting because when I started this podcast, I remember I'm very much
introverted.
So it's very much outside my comfort zone to be doing podcasts and public speaking and all
these different things.
It's very much not what I'm like.
And so and so so interesting because in my generation, I feel like, you know, a lot of it
is just online things, right?
Online FaceTime or we had phones since we were like, you know, 12, 13, 14, whatever.
And so it's always just been like an online interaction with everything.
And so I remember on the train down to record my first podcast and I was like, why am I
doing this?
Like I can't speak on camera.
Like, what is this?
I'm going to be talking to someone for like an hour.
I can't do that.
And so it's so interesting though, how the more you do this, the better you do get at it.
But I think for a lot of people, especially in my generation, it's very difficult to take
that first step and really get outside your comfort zone and start doing this public
speaking and start communicating properly.
But I'm hoping, as you said, right, with the trend of everything is people start to catch
on and start.
getting out of their comfort zone and start having more communication with everyone.
Because then ultimately within business, the workplace, right, and everything, it's gonna
become so much better.
And the new wave of leaders will then be able to communicate properly.
Because otherwise the new wave of leaders coming up in the next couple of generations is
not gonna be able to communicate anything to the generations a couple below it as well.
So it's gonna be an interesting next few years, I think, when these new leaders do start
to rise up.
Absolutely.
And good for you for recognizing that.
I mean, I think that also goes back to that generation gap, right?
You have your generation that's used to communicating via text or virtually or digitally.
And then you have, know, I'm aging myself here, but my generation and the generation above
that would rather pick up the phone and have a conversation.
And when you have the clash of those two, nothing's getting done and there's inefficiency
all over the place.
So that's really interesting and I'm glad you've recognized that you're flexing that
muscle.
Yeah, no, no, definitely, definitely.
So, I mean, where do see the future of your company then, right, in the next five years?
What goals do you have with it?
Where do you want to take it?
Because from what we've gone through today, right, there's a lot of really cool moving
parts that you have there.
So it's going to be really exciting to see what your goals are.
Yes, so we have, you we do have a lot of moving parts in at the Venn Group, but we want to
expand our offerings to make it, and we're in the process of working on this so that it's,
we're with companies for multiple years and we move leaders through a multi-year
programming.
So that does a couple of things.
One, obviously it means that we build a longer, deeper relationship with that
organization.
But on the other hand, it also means that we're developing and cultivating that loyalty
with leaders within the organization.
Right, if you were to tell me as a new leader that you're investing in a year's worth of
training versus we're going to give you three years worth of training at the end of this
training, you will be in the position for this promotion or to move into this role, then
heck yes, I'm gonna stick with you because now I know what my career growth is.
which as we talked about at the beginning of our podcast today, our episode was that some
of that burnout comes from not knowing what that trajectory is.
So we have a collaboration with a really awesome, awesome individual and we're working to
build that out.
So we'll be releasing details on that soon.
And in the next five years, you know, really start to connect with our audience.
So that looks like being more active on social, having a podcast of our own and getting
guests on there.
and really just bringing people together in person as well.
And we've started to do that.
Recently we were in Chicago and ran a one day workshop and just, you know, get leaders to
connect with each other in a space where we can work on our communication.
It's a safe space to develop and learn these skills.
And they build lasting connections and relationships in the process.
So a lot more events to come from us as well.
which is something that will help to keep that human connection alive.
Yeah, no, really cool.
What I love about that as well is, you know, with changing it to like a three year program
and bringing these leaders through is, I said, people are going to stay, right?
They're not going to turn out.
They want to get that training.
They want to really elevate.
They're not going to be burnt out.
But then not only that is then they can cultivate that in the people that they begin to
lead as well later on.
And so it's kind of like that ripple effect, right?
And the amount of change that you can impact is actually really surprising when you really
think about it on a level.
because I did a podcast a few weeks ago with someone else and we're talking about this,
right?
How big is your impact?
And it's quite interesting is when I was looking at my marketing, like clients and
everything, it's like, well, we get them more sales or whatever, Well, no, but if what
they're offering to someone is really gonna impact that company, right?
And then it impacts another company and another company, then from my efforts, we've
actually gone and impacted multiple companies, which could be hundreds of thousands of
people.
And so never underestimate the impact that you can have.
So what I love about that is the impact that's gonna bring for the wider generations and
people, whatever, it's gonna be really, really big overall and see a really positive
experience, I guess, for them.
Absolutely.
It's you hit the nail on the head and you really speak my language.
Our motto is the potential of one impacts the many.
So yeah, it's that ripple effect.
And that's all you need in this world is just it starts with one, right?
Yeah.
I mean, one of the final questions I always ask people on the show is, we touched on it a
little bit earlier, but if you can go back to your 18 year old self and you can only take
three lessons with you, whether it's business, mindset, philosophy, what would those three
lessons be and why would it be those things?
That's a really, really, really good question.
Three things.
One lesson would be go to therapy sooner.
I think, especially for entrepreneurs, go to therapy, invest in a mentor, whatever that
looks like, but seek an objective third party who can just help you kind of work out the
thoughts in your head and get clarity.
I think that's really helpful.
The second is learn to manage your stress and emotions might piggyback on the first, I'm
not sure, but I find, especially as we grow up and then we move into entrepreneurship, it
becomes a stressful, very stressful time.
And unless you know how to productively channel your stress, it will, it will completely
cannibalize you.
So you need to learn what are some techniques you can use to do that.
and of course, like what, are some of the indicators of being in that high stress system?
And what does your response to that look like?
And having that awareness.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And the third thing that I would say, not business related, but it would be to look at the
small pleasures in life.
So, you know, the people that you have around you, be grateful for them.
Pet dogs, look at the sun, watch the sun rise, you know.
I know it sounds really corny, but literally stop and smell the flowers because life moves
quickly, work will always be there, but enjoy the things that happen outside of work as
well because there's a lot of good and you need a life outside of work too.
Definitely, no, amazing.
So if someone wants to look at some of your work and you know where to find you and
everything, where can they go to and what's the website and LinkedIn and everything?
Yes, so our website is Vendgroup, V-E-N-N-E-D group.com.
I'm on LinkedIn, Kendra Johnson, so you can find me there.
We're on Instagram, it's Kendra.J.Johnson.
And those are probably the best places to find me.
Okay, brilliant.
Well, thank you so much for joining me on this episode.
Thank you so much.
It's been wonderful, as always, chatting.
Definitely, definitely.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.