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Wojciech Sobczuk, co-founder and CTO at Superbid.io, an NFT experiences and memories auction site, spoke to Rudolf Falat, founder of the Voice of FinTech podcast about the NFTs, Superbid's approach and focus on tennis, movie and gaming personalities, blockchain protocols in the background and more!
Aiming to inspire entrepreneurs around the world to launch their new ventures. Connect FinTech enthusiasts with start-ups, incubators, accelerators, investors and incumbents.
Voice of FinTech!
RF: Welcome to Voice of FinTech podcast. Mapping out the Swiss and global FinTech scene. Connecting FinTech enthusiasts with startups, incubators, accelerators, business angels, and VCs and incumbents interested in partnerships. Voice or FinTech will help you navigate the FinTech ecosystem. Here you can listen to the startup founder stories, what investors and incumbents are looking for when dealing with startups and find out more about the resources provided by incubators and accelerators. My name is Rudi Falat and I'll be hosting this podcast.
RF: Welcome to Voice FinTech today, we're going to talk about the buzzword of the year, the NFTs or non-fungible tokens, and of course, how they relate to my favorite sport tennis, frankly. So I'm very curious and excited to talk to Wojtek who is a serial entrepreneur from Poland, who just started his new venture Superbid and he signed up some amazing tennis stars and celebrities to help them to engage with their fans better through use of NFTs. So we're going to use this as an example to explain how this works and what can be done with this and what are the prospects. First of all, welcome. How are you today?
WS: Hi. Hi, Rudi thank you for inviting me. Hi everyone. I'm doing very good, thanks.
RF: All right. Cool. So first I like to know, how did you get to do what you do, right? It's not like you could have a master in blockchain or NFT or something like this. How did you get to?
WS: I started in technology 25 years ago, believe it or not. And it was basically all driven by that from day one. When I was growing up, I knew I wanted to work in tech.
And I did tons and tons of things. I launched the first social network in Poland in 2004, with over 2 million users. Then I built another startup. Then I built a software house and now moved exclusively to blockchain just because I believe in this space, I'm a huge fan of those solutions. So I decided I just want to work exclusively on blockchain-related stuff.
RF: All right. Specifically, also looking for inspiration for people to start their new ventures, by now you're a serial entrepreneur and you recently started Superbid. So what drove you to start and run your own business rather than being an employee? Not that there is anything wrong with that??.
WS: Uh, yeah, I, I think there was always something that drove me to be able to freely build things that I came up. And that's the main reason. It was always about building, about creating new things, seeing users sign up and user products so that it was that passion that drove me pretty much.
RF: All right. So let's get to it. So what is Superbid?
WS: It is a social auctions platform. The idea is for people to be able to quickly auction off items, experiences, or NFTs, and the goal is for this experience to be different from existing auction apps, such as. So the idea is for people to communicate during the auction, both among each other, and also with the person action auctioning things off, which in many cases can be some kind of a celebrity or influencer or streamer. And the goal is to allow people to interact together, to like post some kind of emoji's comments.
As, because we don't want this to be like a boring eBay-type auction where you just post something for sale and eventually it sells right. And there is no interaction and we have a big focus on NFTs just because we love this space. We believe in it. And we want to expand in the NFTE space, but we'll also be doing a lot and regular non-NFT or.
RF: I see. So let's rewind a bit and explain it for people who just heard it in passing and they haven't invested in it, or haven't, uh, looked into NFTs closely. So what are the NFTs or non-fungible tokens? How would you define them or explain them briefly?
WS: So NFTs are basically unique items. Just like you have the Mona Lisa painting, which there is one-off, uh, that's actually unique, right? And they're probably hundreds of thousands or millions of copies and on different mediums. So the benefit of NFTs is that once you own a specific, unique token, you can be a hundred percent. That it's the only one, just because the blockchain guarantees it and there is no room for mistakes here.
So unlike in real life, uh, collectibles on the blockchain, you can be totally sure that you are the owner of a specific collectible. So the, from the technical perspective is pretty simple. It's just. One off, but in reality, it gives you this guarantee of a uniqueness, which is difficult to achieve in the real world.
Because as we know, paintings get copied and counterfeited money gets copied and to counterfeit and with NFTs, it's impossible. Once, once you know that this is like the one verify the NFT, there is no way to copy to make a fake one that you can be a hundred percent sure. That is the real. And the other benefit of NFTs, which is becoming very popular nowadays is the fact that it's a digital and you can attach some media to it like a photo.
And in many cases, people use NFTs as profile pictures, for example, and this way they can show off to the world that they are the owner of this specific NFT. And it has this profile picture, which they are using. Unlike the Mona Lisa, which you cannot really show off to people unless they visited your house, where you store it with NFTs, you can publish, you can publicly show off your collection very easily. So that's another cool thing compared to real-life collected.
RF: That's interesting. I had a look at your website and when you're actioning experiences or the NFTs memories, et cetera, digital memories, you auctioning of, let's say 10 of them. So if I were to buy it, how do I know that there will be only 10 of them? Because of course, NFTs exploded this year. And people say there are a couple of reasons for it in developed markets, there's pent up demand, people couldn't go out. So they probably have more money, than they otherwise would have, or also the Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies went up. So people have crypto to pay for it. And then the other thing is the scarcity, right? So it is unique and it scares. So therefore that's quite the key question for me. So you say you're auctioning 10 NFTs. How do I know that they, you won't release another hundred?
WS: Yeah. So that's pretty much a matter of both the person issuing the NFT and the blockchain guarantees of scarcity.
So on one hand you can have somebody issuing a hundred NFTs every day. And then you don't really know if they're going to release another hundred tomorrow. They can dilute their brands however much they like, and then you don't really know if it's going to happen or not. So it's important to buy NFTs from reputable sources where you know that the source is verified, careful about their brand, that they don't want to mint a hundred NFTs per day. So that's one thing. And the other thing is the Ethereum blockchain or other blockchains. I think most of the NFTs right now, most of the popular or established ones are on Ethereum, despite the high fees there. So the blockchain itself guarantees and FTE scarcity because you can create.
And if the collections, and when you release such a collection, you can limit the size of it. And then you know that in this collection, there are only, let's say 50 NFTs and no more can be created in this collection. So this doesn't stop the issuer from creating another collection tomorrow. But if it's a reputable source and you know, that are careful about their brands. You can expect that they will not be creating a hundred per day, but some number per year. Right. And this way you're holding a valuable asset. That's not going to dilute in value with time. Okay. Well, you can set it so that a, you have a limited collection just like with cryptocurrencies, there is a limited money supply in a way, right?
RF: Okay, understood. And coming back to the point, you mentioned that you will be auctioning off also other items, not just NFTs, but when I look at the NFTs first, I saw that you are auctioning off the online sports memorabilia or memories really, but also offline experiences. So how does that work? W is the offline experience something that you can buy as an NFC as well? Or I'm getting confused?
WS: Yeah. So I, the idea was that in every auction you always get an NFT and then that NFT can have an item or experience connected to it. So whoever buys it first is going to be able to get the item and participate in the given. And then if they want to, they can resell the NFT, of course, without anything attached to it, or maybe with that item still attached to it if they decide.
So the NFT is basically just a, in the case of items and experiences, it's like a digital certificate that you participated in the given thing, or you own the. Oh, I see. I see. All right, so that's cool. Now maybe let me dig into one more potential pain point here, right? Because he said, once it's on the blockchain, then that's safe.
RF: Yes. But of course, in the last few years, we also had issues with exchanges, interfaces, et cetera. So how are these memories, for example, stored, if you can say that so they don't get hacked, you might have. A celebrity or a public person that has a video needs to get that video to you. You put it on the blockchain. What if, I don't know if they send it to you by email. If somebody hacks the email, you have 10 NFTs on a blockchain, but that same video can appear in the leak somewhere. How do you prevent that from happening?
WS: Okay. So actually, the way we solve this is we create the NFTs, the moment somebody withdraws them from the system. So throughout the whole auction, there is it's, it all happens within our system and the moment somebody wins and they want to withdraw an NFT to their wallet. That's when we created and send it to the. And this way it's impossible to steal before somebody decides to withdraw it. And then the whole security aspect is moved to the given user because it depends on how safe their wallet is, which at this point I would like to recommend everybody hardware, wallets, because without that, anytime your computer is hacked, somebody can easily see still are your NFTs or your cryptocurrency. So it's very important to use a hardware wallet such as Ledger or Trezor, but on our system, uh, the NFTs are created the moment you want to withdraw them. So there is no ability for anybody to steal.
RF: But the celebrities, they upload the video or pictures straight to your system, or how does that work?
WS: Yeah. Yeah, but with NFTs, the content itself is not so important. The important part is the actual NFTs is created on the blog because for content in ours too, I can go to any NFT platform like open. And look at all the artwork being sold there. And I can take a screenshot of any type of content connected to an NFT as I don't become an owner this way.
I have a copy. So it's like having a poster of MonaLisa at home. You don't actually own the actual artwork. You can still display it on your wall, but then if somebody checks, it's not yours, you don't own the original. So it's the same thing with NFTs. Anybody can make a copy, but you can. The good part about NFTs is you can always verify.
RF: That somebody owns the specific original, and it's not an the fake Louis Vuitton bag. Whereas you have the original, you have the certificate and it passes on from one person to another and you can show the chain.
WS: Good part about NFTs is like I said, you can actually verify if this is genuine. Know where the fake Louis Vuitton bag or a fake watch could be a lot more difficult if it's very close.
RF: So you mentioned Ethereum, which blockchain protocols do you use in the background or are you blockchain protocol-agnostic? How does that work?
WS: That's we're going to start with Ethereum and then we'll be adding, first of all, a layer two Etherium solutions such as Polygon or Arbitrum because those are still secured by the Ethereum blockchain only they have lower fees and then we probably will be adding blockchain such as Solano and Harmony to the mix later. So the user will be able to decide where they want their NFT to resist.
RF: I see. Now another question that people have when they look at the NFTs, it's sometimes very easy to buy them, but then how do you sell them? Is there a secondary market for it that is easy, easy to execute on or, or not yet? We are still in a nascent category. So you could privately the way you want?
WS: Yeah. So that's the beauty of NFTs is that once you own an NFT, you can sell it on any platform that supports and NTFs. So first of all, you'll be able to resell your NFP on Superbid. Second of all, you can withdraw it and sell it on Opensea or Rarible or any other platform out there. So it's a lot easier to transact with NFTs than real-life items and artwork because you can post it online money platform or the price. And if there is interest, you'll probably find a buyer. Do you don't have to send them anything physical rights, like with regular assets? So it's a lot more convenient and a lot, it's a lot more liquid market.
It's still very early, still in the beginnings, because as far as I know, there are around 300,000 accounts on Opensea, the biggest NFT market, So there is a lot more room for growth and for liquidity, but it's already quite easy to post your item for sale. And if there is interest on the market from people, then you will probably sell it.
RF: All right, so you can do it on Superbid, but also on Opensea or other platforms. Great. Now, a lot of the NFTs started with soccer or football, et cetera. So why do you focus on tennis?
WS: Tennis is, the number three sport when it comes to popularity worldwide together with my co-founder Patrick or we're huge fans of tennis. And we see a great opportunity here because it's, it's an amazing sport with a lot of people interested in it. We saw the success of NBA top shots, which is a platform for the NBA, which was launched quite recently, I think less than a year ago. And it's already very popular. And so we're, I mean, to replicate their success in the NBA with our approach to tennis.
RF: All right. Well, it sounds exciting. So I noticed that you signed the deal with your latest ambassador Leylah Fernandez, a US Open finalist. Of course, the US Open was quite exciting on the women's and men's side, the women's side; you had the first teenage final since 1999, right? When Serena Williams defeated Martina Hingis and Novak Djokovic, fell short of the Grand Slam quest, but people were very excited about the tennis final on the women's side and Emma Raducanu from Britain won. So you launched the campaign with Leylah, it's going on these days. There are two auctions planned with her. How did you come up with an idea and how did you make it happen?
WS: So when we decided to start moving into tennis, we started looking at interesting players and Leylah was somebody very, with a very positive image, a very quickly moving up, very successful.
And then she was, she is great to work with. So it was like an obvious choice to picker to join our efforts. And we really liked the fact of creating an auction around, around her at efforts at the US Open. And since we're targeting tennis to a big extent, we already have a number of players and a bunch more coming up.
RF: All right. Of course, I've seen also the experience or the NFT with the Bryan brothers, right? The legendary number ones in doubles for a long time. So curious to see who else you have planned. Can you give us a glimpse of what are you preparing to auction off on a platform in the next couple of months?
WS: I don't want to reveal any names from the tennis world. We actually have a big plan around the gaming world, so quite a different area, but we've always been interested in gaming. And I think even the idea of Superbid, came when it came up, uh, to, to build it, we thought about getting into gaming to a big extent. So we want to apply. Auctions to do gaming in some capacity, we already have a number of plans around that.
So that's going to be an interesting thing. We plan to start getting into it.
RF: All right. Exciting. My next question is just to wrap it up is what's the best way to reach out. Find out more about Superbid, whether that's to partner with you or to look at your options, et cetera.
WS: If you're interested in working with us in some capacity, then please reach out to me on LinkedIn, or you can email us at contact at Superbid.io.
RFF: All right. Wonderful. Wojtek, all the best and good luck to Superbid and hopefully tennis will climb up in the popularity rankings around the world.
WS: Yep. Four we'll be doing our best. Thank you for the invitation. It was a pleasure. Thanks, everybody for listening.
RF: Thank you for listening to. If you haven't already checked out also voiceoffintech.com, where you will find all the episodes and additional resources related to the podcast, you can also subscribe to the Voice of FinTech on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google, or any other podcast app that you like. If you have any suggestions on the topics or guests or how to make this podcast better for you, please email us info@voiceoffintech.com. Happy to hear from you. Thank you!