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No state has fallen further than Kansas in America’s Health Rankings. We used to be 8th in 1991.
Why did we slip so far down in the rankings? The answer might surprise you; it’s based on a leadership challenge.
At the Kansas Health Foundation, our bold vision is to make Kansas the healthiest state in the nation and to do so, this movement must be powered by Kansans in positions of authority and influence to shift Health outcomes.
Starting with the launch of the 2025 publication, Leading Health, written by President and CEO of the Kansas Health Foundation, Ed O’Malley, this podcast aims to break down key concepts of this leadership challenge and actionable ways that we can work together to make a real impact on Health in Kansas.
In each episode, Ed O’Malley, and Senior Advisor at Kansas Health Foundation, Susan Kang, will highlight a chapter in the book and discuss with Kansans who are actively engaged in expanding our definition of Health.
Leading Health is an invitation to move the needle on Health in Kansas, and we invite you to join us in leading the way.
Ep18
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[00:00:00]
Chapter 18 Setup
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Ed O'Malley: Welcome back to another episode of the Leading Health podcast, where we dive into this book, Leading Health: How You and 30,000 Kansans Help Communities Thrive. I'm Ed O'Malley, here with my wonderful [00:01:00] co-host, Susan Kang. Susan, good to see you again.
Susan Kang: Great to see you, Ed.
Ed O'Malley: We are diving, we are well into this podcast journey now, so we are diving into chapter 18.
Of course, each episode of this podcast, we discuss a different chapter of this book. Today, we'll be talking about chapter 18, which is one of the mindsets we need the 30,000 to hold, this idea of em- embracing bold vision. And by now, if you've been with us, you know what we mean by the 30,000. We mean Kansans in key roles of authority.
We're in part three of the book. Part one, we explored the fall in the health rankings that Kansas experienced, and we kind of put a, put a guiding star out there of let's get to number one. Part two of the book, we explored how we think this is a health challenge, kind of the slide in the health rankings.
It's not. It's a leadership challenge, and it involves a leadership challenge for the 30,000. In part three, we've been [00:02:00] walking through the different mindsets- Mm-hmm ... we need more of the 30,000 to hold if we're gonna make progress. And today, we'll be joined again by Ben Hutton. I can't wait to get Ben back up here, have another conversation.
That was an awesome discussion with him many months ago now.
Susan Kang: Yeah.
Ed O'Malley: And we were talking about- Yeah, I loved it for chapter seven ... chapter seven. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And so he'll be back with us again today. That will be fantastic. But let's talk about this chapter for a little bit
Susan Kang: first. Yeah.
Why Bold Vision Matters
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Susan Kang: So, you know, this chapter is, is a short one, but has a ton of really big ideas.
I mean, you know, um, so
on the issue of embracing bold vision, you talk about the need to embrace bold vision, and that it creates pressure for us to strive, do even better than we would otherwise do. S- set that up for us.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah. Well, first of all, I want to, um, make it clear where this came from. So we did a lot of listening early on.
Mm-hmm. So about [00:03:00] four years ago, I came to the Kansas Health Foundation. We began to focus this our strategy around leading the nation in health. And before jumping to, well, what should we do- Mm-hmm ... like, what would it look like for a foundation to help try to catalyze movement in a state in that direction, we started instead with just a lot of listening. And we listened to all sorts of people all around the state. We asked them all the same set of questions, trying to discern, like, what's going on, what's happening, why have we fallen, what will it take to climb. And one of the things that emerged in that listening- Was that Kansans in essence were telling us that a lack of bolder vision was getting in the way of progress on the things that we as Kansans say we care about.
, It was really interesting dynamic that emerged through that listening, people in essence started [00:04:00] saying that there weren't many places, companies, organizations that were casting visions for true excellence.
Ben Hutton: Mm-hmm.
Ed O'Malley: you know, we have some examples in our state. So I'm a K-Stater, so I hate mentioning this first one, but you know, the Jayhawks, they start every basketball season assuming they have a chance to become the national champion.
Like, their vision is to win national titles. It doesn't always happen, but you know what? It has happened.
Susan Kang: It is
a very good vision.
Ed O'Malley: It is A very good vision, and it, it propels them forward. There are other examples like that. The YMCA here in Wichita literally is the best YMCA network in the world, and those people know it, and they want it to be.
They strive for it to be the best. Not just good, but the best. ~There are other examples. Uh, you know, we had Kenny Wilk on the show years ago. No, not years ago, months ago, excuse me, weeks ago perhaps. Um, I'm gonna redo that little part. Sorry, Brian.~ There are other examples. The University of Kansas Health System, Kenny Wilk has been with us.
25, 30 years ago, they created a [00:05:00] vision to provide the best patient care- Yeah ... in the nation, and you know what? They're there. It's incredible. So but Kansans were telling us there aren't a lot of examples, and the reason this emerged in that listening is that they were in essence saying, "If we're gonna do great things, we need more pressure on ourselves to do those great things." And one of the ways you create more healthy pressure is to cast bigger visions. It makes sense, right? A little, little scary, but it makes sense.
Susan Kang: Yeah, yeah. So the vision comes first, which then creates healthy pressure.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah,
Authority and Big Goals
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Ed O'Malley: and, and what we're getting at in this chapter is that it's, it, it's one of the roles, we've said before that we're kind of obsessed with what's the role of authority.
~Okay? ~We need leadership from all sorts of people. We need leadership from people in the grassroots communities, in neighborhoods, in families, you know, deep inside organizations and companies, throughout all levels, ~you know, of, of our,~ [00:06:00] of our governmental entities. But we also need leadership coming from those in authority, and one specific thing we need from those in authority is to help us all cast bigger visions. Like, that's a unique function- ... of, you know, somebody who's a CEO, somebody who's a governor, somebody who's a mayor, somebody who is a executive director ~o- of a, of a,~ of a big nonprofit. ~S-~ one of the things those roles can do is use their authority to say to people, "Hey, look. L- there's a mou- let's take that mountain. Let's take it. Let's believe we can It's hard for somebody not in an authority role to cast a vision that ends up catalyzing and mobilizing others, which is why it's a unique thing we need from those in authority. We need, we need from the 30,000, and it's something we just don't see. And I, and I think one of the things I've [00:07:00] thought a lot about over the years is maybe it's a bit of kind of the aw shucks Kansas ~kind of, kind of w- you know, like, we- we'll just out here- Yeah~
~we'll kind of- ~
Susan Kang: ~We're, we're in the middle ... ~
Ed O'Malley: ~we'll, we'll- We're average ...~ this idea that we're average and darn proud of it, you know? Like, there's this- Yeah ... thing going on in Kansas that... Look, I love Kansas, but it... I remember when I was in the legislature, you, you'd be in a committee hearing, and they'd be talking about whatever, whatever statistic.
Maybe it was graduation rates for high school, or maybe it was the, the percent of our college graduates who are gainfully employed within 12 months or, or maybe it was something like, you know, the, the rate of our, ~um, ~ of, of immunizations in our population. And, and like, I... It seemed to me that people were satisfied as long as Kansas was somewhere in the middle.
You're like, "Well, okay, cool. We're kind of in the middle." And I think what we're saying here is- Yeah ... no, no, we, we, we gotta get better. We gotta aim, we gotta aim higher, and when we aim higher, it changes all kinds of conditions inside systems and organizations.
Susan Kang: Yeah, and
I think it generates more ideas actually.
I mean, for me, the bolder [00:08:00] the vision- Yeah ... the more I think, I think it makes space to generate more ideas on how to get to that vision. Yeah, yeah. And I think that I, th- I think that's a really wonderful way to have options to get to the, to the goal of number one.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah.
Susan Kang: Right? For us.~ ~
Ed O'Malley: ~In, ~Right. Right.
In, in the chapter, we talk about ~kind of w- ~some examples of what we mean by kind of a bolder vision versus a watered-down version. But I think the best way to get into this conversation is ~to, ~ to get Ben Hutton back out here. ~I, yeah. ~ So Ben Hutton, CEO of, of Hutton Company here in Wichita, an innovative organization, when he joined us back on chapter seven- Seven,
Ben Hutton: mm-hmm
Ed O'Malley: you know, we talked a lot about the things they're doing inside Hutton to, in essence, promote what we would call capital H health. We talked a lot about how those in authority, like a business CEO, needs to help align their people, help them focus on the right problems. I know he's a visionary person, and it'll be exciting to get him in this conversation with us.
Let's bring him up.
Ben Hutton Joins
---
Susan Kang: [00:09:00] Ben, welcome back. I'm so glad you're- Glad to be here. Yeah. Yeah, I'm so glad you're back.
Ben Hutton: Yep, me
Susan Kang: too. Um, it's been a few months since we last talked to you. so how are you doing today?
Ben Hutton: Uh, fantastic. Uh, fantastic. It's a beautiful day in Kansas.
Susan Kang: We're really excited to dive into, ~uh, ~ chapter 18.
Ben Hutton: Yep.
Susan Kang: Mindset number seven: embrace bold vision.
~Love it. Right? Okay, that's the ... Yeah, it's great. ~ So let me ask you, bold vision, that is a huge part of Hutton's mantra, right? What does that mean to you?
Ben Hutton: Yeah. Well, uh, I, I love this chapter, maybe one of my favorite chapters in the book, uh, because I love bold vision and the power it has for organizations- That's awesome.
Mm-hmm ... ~uh, ~ and in this context, our state. ~Um,~
Make No Little Plans
---
Ben Hutton: you know, in 1909, this guy named Daniel Burnham, ~uh, ~ put out a city plan, ~uh, ~ for Chicago. He was an architect.
Ed O'Malley: Mm-hmm.
Ben Hutton: ~Uh, ~and the Chicago that we experience today can be traced back to that. Mm. So the parks, some of the major drives, like, all of this, and it's because he had this bold vision.
So when you pull up to our office and you park in our visitor parking, what you are staring [00:10:00] at is a mural that we had painting on- painted on one of our neighbor's buildings. That's a quote from him. It says, "Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood. Make big plans, aim high, and hope and work."
Susan Kang: Awesome.
Ben Hutton: And I just, I love that message. I love the vision it sets for our organization, and I love the truth, ~uh, ~in that, in those words. Uh, when we as humans, I think, hear big ideas and bold messages, bold claims, uh, we get excited about that. Um, we don't get excited about small, incremental movement. Uh, that's necessary.
That's how we get to big things, uh, but we have to cast big visions. And so I definitely believe in being different. Uh, you know, for me, I think being the same as everybody, ~uh, ~ just guarantees average performance- Mm-hmm ... ~uh, ~which in business that means you're a commodity, and commodities get sold on price.
Uh, that doesn't sound very fun- Yeah ... exciting or appealing to me. Uh, And so we work hard to look [00:11:00] at the unique abilities we have as an organization, that we have as people, and figure out how to leverage those for the benefit of our customers and team members out in the marketplace. ~Uh, ~and because of that, like, we as a company don't line up with any of our, uh, competitors.
Like, w- we don't ... We have different titles. We have different services. We have a different structure. Uh, everything is different, and that's totally on purpose, ~um, ~' cause it makes us different, and, uh, I think that is awesome. ~Uh, ~What it means is for some clients we are a great fit, for some team members we're a great fit, and for others we are not, uh, and that's great.
I love it.
Ed O'Malley: ~Hold on. ~B
Beyond Best Practices
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Ed O'Malley: en, I wa- I wanna get you, continue to riff on w- on what you're talking about, but specifically you talked about you don't wanna be average. And, and one of the things that I've noticed, especially f- especially frankly in kind of the, the field of what I would affectionately call, like, the do-gooder field, which, which I'm a part of, right?
And I use that term do-gooder affectionately. People who, who are working [00:12:00] in civic life, in nonprofit life, who are trying to change the world through their professional work. You're a do-gooder, too, and you're expressing that differently in the private sector. But what I've noticed in a lot of the, the do-gooder sector is this focus on, well, what are the best practices? And how do we... Like, how do we bring the best practices to our county health department, our nonprofit, our organization, our local government? And o- on one hand, yes, ~let's, ~let's make sure we, you know, know what the best practices are and bring them. But also, like, let's create the next practices.
Ben Hutton: Yeah.
Ed O'Malley: And let's not be...
And sometimes I feel like Kansans are satisfied as long as we have implemented the best practices. You seem like an or- your organization seems like an organization that knows what the best practices in your business are, probably knocks them out of the park, but also [00:13:00] says, "And we're gonna be different.
We're gonna be unique. We're gonna push beyond that." Does that make sense to you? And, and can you riff on that just a little bit?
Ben Hutton: Yeah, I think one of, one of the gifts I have, uh, in the way I was made is I'm unconstrained by current realities. ~Um, ~and so I, I don't feel compelled to do things the way they've always been done- Mm-hmm
or to match other people on the way that they do things. Uh, I'll steal great ideas when I see them. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I'll make up my own when I think I have a better way of approaching it, and I think we have to be willing to, to do that if we're ever gonna be excellent at anything. Mm. Um, you know, I, I think, ~uh, ~stealing, using best practices, ~uh, ~ from other states in terms of health is great, ~uh, ~ and that's probably a fast way for Kansas to move from, uh, a little below average to slightly above average. Uh, but you're never gonna be, ~uh, ~at the top of the pack. Yeah. Uh, you're never gonna be the leader, ~uh, ~in health, uh, by copying other people. Yeah,~ uh, ~
Ed O'Malley: ~Yeah. Great point. ~Great point.
Susan Kang: Yeah. Great point. So if you were, If you're having a conversation with somebody who's trying to make progress [00:14:00] on whatever it is, and you're describing sort of the difference between a safe, comfortable vision versus a bold vision, I'm curious to know how you would talk about that. ~um, ~
Ben Hutton: ~Um, well, uh ~That's a great question. I don't know. This, this is, this is one of these things where I, I think we're all created uniquely- Mm-hmm ... uh, with different skills and talents. Mm-hmm. And there's people in my organization that are so gifted at the things that I am so not gifted in, and that's what makes us great together. ~Uh, ~one of the unique abilities that I have is the ability to take disparate information and put it together in a way that can cast a compelling vision for the future or see possibilities that other people may not see. Mm-hmm. ~Uh, ~ and so, uh,~ uh,~ some of this, ~uh, ~ just comes naturally to me, like it's one of the skills I have. I think when I'm talking to other leaders about how do we create bold visions, uh, we have to talk about, living at the margin or the edge of our comfort zones- Mm. Mm-hmm ... ~uh, ~or for what [00:15:00] we think is possible. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, sometimes I'll say, you know, if we can draw a straight line between where we are and where we want to be in the future, then that's not really a aspirational goal. ~Uh, ~ that's projecting performance, ~uh, ~or improvement that we, we feel confident that we can get. ~Um, ~ that's not how we cast big visions. It's, it's gotta be a little bit of disconnect. There's gotta be this point where, ~uh, ~ you know, and then a miracle happens, and then we get there. Uh, and, ~uh, ~ uh, along the way we learn, ~uh, ~like what, what are these things that might be that miracle, ~uh, ~and then going back to chapter seven, we experiment with those things, then we, we implement them, and we get there.
Uh, but there is... I have seen over and over again in our organization when we set big aspirational goals and we work methodically towards them, even when we can't tell how we're gonna get there in the beginning, uh, somehow, some way, we end up there ~Huh ... ~ in the end.
Ed O'Malley: I- i- it's like em- em- when you embrace bold [00:16:00] vision, it almost, like, p- puts you on a path that creates the conditions for that miracle to occur.
Yeah. You know? And, like, if you, but if you weren't on that path, those conditions wouldn't be there, and then the, the miracle wouldn't have a chance, right?
Ben Hutton: Yeah. We, we have to give it the opportunity-
Ed O'Malley: Yeah ... to
Ben Hutton: show up.
Ed O'Malley: yeah. Yeah.
Casting Versus Embracing
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Ed O'Malley: Um,~ Um, ~ so, so one thing that I wanna play with for a minute is, Ben, I know you well enough to know that you are a visionary. And, and by the way, I, I, I love your podcast, On Purpose. ~We'll put it in the show notes. ~I'd encourage people to, to listen to it. It, it's a fabulous kind of little 10 to 15-minute injection each week about a key idea you're exploring. Yep. It, it's super helpful. but listening to that and just knowing you like I know you in the community, I know you're a visionary, and one of the things that I could imagine some people listening to this or reading this chapter might be feeling is well, what if I'm [00:17:00] not? Like, what if, what if I- what if I don't have those- those unique things that Ben just talked about that allows me to come up with vision. A- you know, like, like what, what advice do we have for them? And this is maybe a question for all three of us to kind of play with for a minute, and I, I'm reflecting on, on Susan when we were writing this book, the chapter title is very intentional. So the word is embrace bold vision. And I remember when we were writing that, that chapter, you know, the, the discussion was between cast bold vision or embrace bold vision. Mm-hmm. And we felt embrace was more inclusive.
Susan Kang: Mm-hmm.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah. ' Cause, like, not every member of the 30,000 will have the ability to cast-
Susan Kang: Right
Ed O'Malley: ~bold vision. ~Right. You know? Um, so, ~ Um, so, ~so we're trying to create room in this chapter, in this idea that you don't have to be a Ben Hutton ~in or, you know... ~But we do... There's still a role for you to play [00:18:00] related to calling your people to something bigger. Yeah. So what comes to mind for you, Ben, on that?
Ben Hutton: Well, I love that word embrace, ~ uh, ~ and the word that actually came to my mind, uh, when you started this question was trust.~ ~
Ed O'Malley: ~Mm. ~
Ben Hutton: ~Uh, trust and en- enable, actually. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, ~Yeah. Um, and so one of the things that's had to become true in our organization over the last 15 years that I've been leading it is that our team had to learn, uh, how to place just a little bit of trust in all of the crazy ideas that I come up with- enough that we can go and try some of them. Okay. Yeah. and so if, if we don't go along, ~uh, ~ with the leaders that do have this bold vision, then those go nowhere. ~Yeah. Uh, ~ because usually, ~uh, ~ the leaders that have the ability to cast a big vision don't have all the skills to be able to go and implement that- Mm-hmm
or make it a reality themselves. Mm-hmm. So we, we have to trust, uh, as teams, as a state, ~uh, ~to go along with some of these bold visions, and then we have to use the skills that we have, ~uh, uh, ~to enable them, right? 'Cause there is a piece for everybody i- in these- Yeah ... visions. ~Uh- ~Right, [00:19:00] right ~uh, ~whether you love, uh, the nitty-gritty details or the pie-in-the-sky, uh, ideas, uh, there's a place for you to plug in, um, and so you've gotta enable them.
Ed O'Malley: Y- yeah, a way to think about it might be in order to do game-changing things, there has to be a bold vision present. Yeah. Like, and so if, if you're one of the 30,000 and you're thinking about your city council, or you're thinking about your nonprofit, or you're thinking about your faith community, your church, your synagogue, or your university, whatever your context is, your company Like is there a bold, compelling vision that creates healthy pressure?
And maybe we'll, we'll play with that in a minute. Well, maybe in a minute we'll talk about like visions that don't do that, right? Mm-hmm. But in the chapter it says a little more about it, but like is there the presence of a bold vision that is creating healthy pressure Or not. [00:20:00] And if the answer is not, like maybe you have the skills to cast that vision, and maybe you can help create a culture where people will trust in that vision.
Or maybe your role is how to use your authority to help that vision emerge from other people who maybe do have those skills, and your job is to ensure that bold vision gets entrenched somehow. It- it's almost... I, I, like I think a lot of the leadership literature, for example, puts an emphasis on casting vision.
Mm-hmm. And I think what we're playing with right now in this conversation, and I'm, we're kinda riffing on this for the first time in, in kind of a public way, is yeah, cast bold vision if you can. If you can't, don't worry about it. Your job then, if you're a member of the 30,000, is to ensure there is a bold vision.
Mm-hmm. Susan? Yeah. I mean, you've been involved in civic life for a longer time. Yeah.
Susan Kang: What,
What- Yeah, no, I mean, I think, I, I think that we, we have to have some kind... You know, when I think about [00:21:00] casting a bold vision is like, you know, h- to say, like have a North Star. Like this is what we're gonna do. We, you know, we are, we're gonna be number one in the nation, you know, according to the America's health rankings. ~Um, ~but I think, you know, sort of there's the casting, but then there's the embracing, right? by the people who are gonna help do the work, you know, and who's- ~Yeah ... right? Yeah. Um, you know, and who's- Yeah ~... gonna help the, you know, the visionary, ~um, ~ person, ~uh, ~ to, to make this happen. You can't do it. You can't have a room full of just, you know, people who are visionaries, right? Yeah. So I mean, I think that embracing... And so Ed, actually- You
Ben Hutton: can. It's really fun. But it's, it,
Susan Kang: it gets nothing done. Well, I'd like to be, I'd like to be on the wall there. Yeah. I'd like to be a fly on the wall in there. But no, but I mean, I think, I think it's really important that you are, ~um, ~ distinguishing between casting and, and embracing. Um, and this is a, I think it's a new concept that we're talking about for the first time actually in, in this, in this, um, in this podcast. But, um, I wanna know it, you know, in terms of creating healthy pressure as a result though, and this is something that go, that goes hand in hand, if you create the bold [00:22:00] vision or, and you, and you embrace the bold vision, ~um, ~ you're saying that it also creates healthy pressure for people to work to get to that outcome.
Yeah. So, ~uh, ~what I wanna know from you, Ben, is how, you know, ~uh, ~tell us a little bit about your experience. I mean, have you been in a situation where that healthy pressure, ~um, ~has, you know, resulted in a better outcome for you?
Ben Hutton: Yeah.
Healthy Pressure Stories
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Ben Hutton: Uh, well, actually two examples come to mind, one business and one personal.
Perfect. So, ~uh, ~business-wise, uh, for our company, ~uh, ~there's been several times throughout the past, ~uh, ~decade or so, ~uh, ~that we've been confronted with an opportunity that seemed just outside of our capabilities or our past experience. Mm-hmm. Felt big, felt scary ~um,~ and at each of those steps along the way, the voices in my head as well as- Everybody else in the office said, "Hey, that's exciting. Let's find a partner to help us along. Uh, let's hire a new, uh, person. Let's- let's do something to- to [00:23:00] enable us to go after that." ~Uh, ~but each time I felt a- a smaller whisper in the back of my head say, "You know what? I think we can do this." And so as the leader, it was my job to cast a vision and say, "No," like, "We're ready for this.
Here's why." ~Uh,~ and put a stake out, uh, ahead of us and say, this is the hill we're going after right now. Let's charge it." Mm-hmm. And in each of those instances has turned into, uh, new heights, uh, for our organization in terms of, you know, a larger project, a new service capability, what- whatever it was. ~Um, ~ and so creating this tension or this space between where we were- Mm ... and where we wanted to be, uh, not too far, not... Like, it wasn't unrealistic, uh, ~ uh, ~but just outside of our reach. ~Um, ~you know, personally, uh, a really specific example of this for me was a few years ago, ~um, ~my brother, ~uh, ~was turning 40. ~Uh, ~and he decided that for his 40th birthday, what he wanted to do was go climb Mount Kilimanjaro in Africa.
Susan Kang: Oh.
Ben Hutton: And so in July of that [00:24:00] year, one year before his birthday, we signed up for this trip, and we bought plane tickets, ~uh, ~ uh, spent a whole lot of money, and I committed, to it. And, ~uh, ~ the last mountain I had clumb, or climbed, clumb- Climbed. Mm-hmm ... ~uh, uh, ~like 10 years ago. Like, I'm, I was not a mountain climber. ~Uh, ~ I was not in shape. ~Uh, ~ but setting a, an achievable but big goal a year into the future meant that I had to train, I had to get myself in shape. ~Uh, ~and so a year later, I was at the healthiest I had ever been. ~Uh, ~and I went with him, and I conquered the- the- the challenge. Um- ~ Um- ~
~uh, ~
Susan Kang: Wow ...
Ben Hutton: uh, but it was that goal, like that, ~uh, ~ accountability mechanism by publicly stating, "Here's what I'm doing," ~uh, ~that drove me to do that.
Ed O'Malley: ~Um, ~so- That is- Wow. That is... It- it- it's- it's so fascinating how that works. Those are two great- Mm-hmm ... examples. And yeah, there- there's, you just used the term public accountability. So that connects to the idea of healthy pressure. Mm-hmm. I mean, there's something about [00:25:00] when... ~Which, which by the way- ~A, a, a non-bold vision doesn't create that public accountability.
Ben Hutton: Yeah.
Ed O'Malley: You know, if, if our vision is, you know, we talk about, about, about our purpose statement, to help Kansas lead the nation in health, like literally according to America's health rankings. We will know someday whether or not that happened-
Ben Hutton: Yeah ...
Ed O'Malley: or not, and we're gonna feel crummy if it doesn't happen, and we'll also learn from it, right?
Yeah. But like it'll be clear whether the Kansas Health Foundation has been effective or not. But when you don't have a bold vision, it often is foggy, you know, whether... And so I love the public accountability that you just talked about in, in those stories.
Realistic Bold Visions
---
Ed O'Malley: O- one thing I, I'm curious about is you, you, you, you used the words, ~um, ~earlier that it, that- y- the visions were not unrealistic when you were talking about the, the company examples. And so there's [00:26:00] some art to this, I think. Yes. And this is actually something we d- we don't explore in the chapter. Yeah. So let's explore it here a little bit, but the art to casting a bold vision or embracing, again, maybe you're not casting it, but you're cultivating it from your people, and then using your authority to get it lodged in your system. B- so th- the art of embracing a bold vision that is realistic, because if it's unrealistic, then what are we doing?
Ben Hutton: Yeah.
Ed O'Malley: Right? But so h- how do we help people think on that?
Ben Hutton: Yeah I think it's gotta be just challenging enough, that it inspires action. You know, if, if my brother would've said, "I wanna go climb an average mountain in Colorado and go camping for a weekend," I would not have thought about that again- Right
until June of the next year- Mm-hmm ... you know, a month before and be like- That's right ... "Oh, I guess I gotta get a tent or something." Right. Uh, it inspires no action. ~Uh,~ but if he would've said, "Hey, we're gonna go climb Everest," I would've said, "You're crazy." Like, there is no possible way that this is gonna happen- Mm
[00:27:00] in a year. Mm-hmm. ~Uh, ~and in... And instead of being an encouraging and an inspiring goal, it would've been deflating or debilitating. Like, there's no possible way. Like, why am I even gonna put effort into this? And so there really is this, uh, art of setting the goal just outside of our reach- ... Mm-hmm ... um, but, uh, obtainable, ~uh, ~with a little bit of extra effort or some, some novel ideas.
Ed O'Malley: Yeah. Yeah, th- so there's art to it. There's also some science to it. So, ~uh, ~an example in the health world, Ben, you might not be familiar with this, but many of our listeners will, while we talk a lot about America's health rankings, the 50 states ranked 1 to 50, there's another thing that has been known as the county health rankings- Mm where for years now, it, it, ac- actually the ranking part of it is coming to an end in the near future- Mm-hmm ... but for years inside each state, each county has been ranked in kind of order from number one being the best and, and our, in Kansas, number 105 [00:28:00] being, the least healthy. And, and so there's some art, but there's also science.
So what I mean by that is while in the history of America's health rankings you can see movement of states up and down. Mm-hmm. Like, you can see Kansas moving down. Yeah. You can see a state like New York moving up, right? So there are... Like, most states are kinda where they are, but you can see evidence of movement. In the county health rankings- y- you really don't ever see any movement. Hmm. You know? So, like, a county that is in, in the bottom five in Kansas, it, it is v- u- there's no evidence anywhere in the country of counties going from, like, the bottom five to the top five in their state. And I think it's an example of the science of what leads to health. You need a bigger aperture than the county level. Like, you need... Like, these are systems and processes that cross county lines. ~And- Hmm ... ~and so I'm a little bit on, on a tangent there, but I think it gets to when people [00:29:00] are trying to cast or embrace a bold vision, it's gotta be realistic. It's gotta be, like, just beyond what's possible, but it, it has to be grounded in some kind of understanding that it is possible, and how do we make sure we don't get so excited about a vision that we don't do our homework- Yeah.
Yeah ... to understand if it's possible or not.
Ben Hutton: Mm-hmm.
Susan Kang: Yeah, I mean, just what you were just talking about, how, ~ um, ~ you, you were preparing in, in, in preparation to, ~uh, ~ climb Mount Kilimanjaro, and y- you know, you were on the edge of your comfort zone, right? Just on the outside of comfortable, and, ~um, ~ that, I mean, that's impossible.
And- Yeah ... so in the book, you know, ~um, ~ Ed talks about the, the reason why we wanna embrace bold vision is it, it also creates, it unlocks energy and optimism and commitment, right? That's what, that's what he's talk- ~uh, ~ you know, talking about, and I'm, I heard a little bit about that, ~um, ~in, in your personal journey.
Um, curious to know if you have any examples to share that where you've experienced that unlocking
Ben Hutton: [00:30:00] Yeah, I think, ~uh, ~bold visions demand, ~uh, ~ forward motion and action.
Susan Kang: Mm-hmm.
Ben Hutton: Uh, you know, at the point where you stake a claim in the future for something big, ~um, ~ it creates the tension that we've been talking about, and it draws you into it, and you have to start taking steps forward. You know, ~uh, ~for our business, one of the moments, ~um, ~ that this came into play was actually when we expanded, ~uh, ~our services beyond that of just construction. My, my dad started our company in 1992, and for, uh, 20 years, ~uh, ~we were a construction company, and we were awesome at it, like- Mm-hmm ... and still are. ~Um, ~but, ~um, ~we began to see opportunities, ~uh, ~ to serve the clients that we had in ways far beyond just building their building at one point in time. ~Um, ~ and so, uh, we cast a vision for what we thought that looked like, ~uh, ~ and then set about methodically adding all of the services that we have today in our organization that help our [00:31:00] clients take care of their buildings or provide alternative energy solutions.
We do design and construction, real estate development, and then we- we'll help them think about their organization as a whole, uh, so they can be successful as a, as a company or a business or a nonprofit. Uh, ultimately, ~uh, ~ that's better for our business too someday. ~Um, ~and so we've developed this whole suite of, uh, services that really expand, ~uh, ~ what people look to us for, ~uh, ~and expanded what we thought was possible with the skills and talents we had.
Susan Kang: ~Um- ~Yeah, me- meeting your clients where they are- Exactly ... I think is how you guys talk about that. Mm-hmm. Exactly, yeah. I
Ben Hutton: think
Susan Kang: that's awesome. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Scaling Bold Vision Statewide
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Ed O'Malley: Well, a- and what we're getting at in this chapter is if we don't have more organizations in Kansas that are focused on capital H health, and look, Hutton is.
Like, the way you organize your company- ... you are promoting capital H health of your people and of the clients you serve.
Ben Hutton: Yeah.
Ed O'Malley: So if we don't have more organizations in [00:32:00] Kansas working on capital H health that are casting bolder visions, we're not gonna make it. Like, we're not gonna go from now 27th in the rankings up to number one. And what does this mean for a county health department? What does it mean for a United Way? What does it mean ~for a,~ for a church? What does it mean for, you know, a chamber of commerce? They each need to figure it out, but if right now we've got two... I'm just making these numbers up. If we have 2% of our organizations in Kansas really embracing bold vision, we need to get it to 20%. It doesn't have to be 100%. We, we understand not every organization is going to be on the cutting edge of vision and strategy and pushing those boundaries. But to climb from 27th to first, we need to up the number significantly of organizations working on health. This [00:33:00] has been an awesome conversation. It's been great having Ben with us.
Susan Kang: Yeah. Thank you, Ben.
Takeaways and Next Chapter
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Susan Kang: Um, so this is a time when we talk about, ~Um, ~what are sort of takeaways, right? Um, at the end of our conversation, which has been fantastic, and I'm gonna start, and I'm gonna ask you to go next, and Ed will close us out. So one takeaway for me from this conversation is about e- embracing bold vision is a way to unlock performance that average vision just cannot, cannot make happen. I mean, you have to have that. Mm. Otherwise, no good, right? Yep. ~Um, ~ and so I ask our listeners, I invite our listeners to think about, and people, members of the 30,000 and others, to reimagine a thing, a topic, goal that you're working on, and h- reimagine it to make it a bolder one
Ben Hutton: Yeah, I, uh, I love the power of bold vision.
That's probably evident from, ~uh, ~how animated I got a couple times during our conversation. Love it. Uh, but I also know that that can scare some people, ~uh- ~Mm-hmm ... in our [00:34:00] community. ~Uh, ~having a goal to go from 27th to number one uh, feels overwhelming, and it feels daunting. Feels inspiring at the same time for many of us.
Mm-hmm. ~Uh, ~ and so I think we have to cast that bold, bold vision, but we also have to realize, ~uh, ~ that we aren't going from 27 to 1 next year.
Susan Kang: Right.
Ben Hutton: Uh, we're
gonna go from 27 to 25 to 22, and these steps happen incrementally, ~uh, ~and they happen at a very micro scale inside of a business like ours or an organization like yours. ~Uh, ~ and so finding a way to take small steps as individual organizations or companies is how we actually achieve- Mm ... that big vision.
Ed O'Malley: I,
I, I love it. My, my takeaway is something you said earlier, Ben, that bold visions in cr- end up creating a demand for forward action. Those were your words. De- a demand for forward action. And I think for a lot of our listeners and readers of this book, when they think about visions, [00:35:00] they'll think about vision statements in their organizations. And I think we're talking about something kinda radically different. We're not asking for your, the vision you have for the world. We're asking for a vision that ends up creating the conditions that require, that demand forward action for your people. So if your vision isn't creating action, it's not working. This
Susan Kang: is-
Ed O'Malley: It's gotta be dynamic, it sounds like. It's gotta be dynamic. Yeah. It's gotta be forward. It's got to eventually create the conditions for that miracle to occur we talked about earlier. Okay, great conversation. Ben, you're gonna be back with us again, uh, in a few weeks to talk about chapter number 20, which is Making Metrics Matter- Mm-hmm
one of the other mindsets. This has been a great conversation. Thank you to our listeners. Thank you to the folks joining us in this conversation about Leading Health, and we'll see you next time.
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