Inspired Living with Autoimmunity

Inspired Living with Autoimmunity Trailer Bonus Episode 181 Season 1

Andrea Nakayama: What is Deep Listening and Why It Holds The Key To Your Autoimmune Recovery

Andrea Nakayama: What is Deep Listening and Why It Holds The Key To Your Autoimmune RecoveryAndrea Nakayama: What is Deep Listening and Why It Holds The Key To Your Autoimmune Recovery

00:00
My conversation with Andrea Nakayama gets to the heart of why many of us struggle with autoimmune recovery despite doing "all the right things."

Andrea shares how she developed a different approach to functional medicine after her own life-changing experience, and explains why deep listening might be the missing piece in your healing journey. Whether you're feeling stuck with protocols that aren't working or just starting your recovery journey, you'll learn practical ways to tap into your body's wisdom and become the expert of your own health. 

Andrea also reveals the surprising science behind belonging and healing - it's not what you might think!

For the complete show notes and links visit inspiredliving.show/181

Creators & Guests

Host
Julie Michelson

What is Inspired Living with Autoimmunity?

The podcast for high achievers who want to stay sharp, focused and full of energy despite their diagnoses. Those who know there has got to be something better than simply accepting decline.

Hosted by Julie Michelson, a National Board Certified Functional Medicine Health Coach who used to suffer from crippling Rheumatoid Arthritis until she learned the tools and strategies to take her power back from autoimmunity.

In this podcast, Julie brings you interviews with thought leaders in the Functional Health and Wellness space. You will get actionable recommendations to Take Your Power Back and catapult your health. No fluff, just concrete, useful steps to improve your health!

Your signs and your symptoms
are actually different things.

Your signs can be measured and your
symptoms are felt, but not measured.

So if you're unconscious.

They don't know your symptoms.

They do know your signs.

They can see, they can tell if you
have a fever, a rash, but when you

say I have a rash and I'm fatigued
and I have a headache and those are

like two different languages coming
at that provider at the same time.

Welcome back to the Inspired
Living with Autoimmunity podcast.

I'm your host, Julie Michelson, and today
I'm joined by Andrea Nakayama, the host

of the 15 Minute Matrix podcast and the
founder of Functional Nutrition Alliance.

Andrea is leading thousands of students
and practitioners around the globe in a

revolution to offer better solutions to
the growing chronic illness epidemic.

By highlighting the importance of
systems biology, root cause methodology

and therapeutic partnerships.

She helps the historically
underserved individuals reclaim

ownership of their health.

In today's conversation, Andrea
shares the major principles of the

Functional Nutrition Alliance, as well
as the Functional Nutrition Matrix.

We discuss the efficacy of incorporating
narrative medicine to enhance the

partnership between the client
or patient and the practitioner.

And to tap into the innate
healing power we all have.

Andrea, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you, Julie.

I'm super excited to be here with you.

I am so looking forward to our
conversation and I would love for you to

share kind of in a condensed way, if you
can, um, a little bit about your journey.

I, I always am inspired by, you know,
I know we almost all of us Came to

functional medicine, integrative health,
whatever you want to call it under

whichever umbrella, um, through our own
journey or, or the journey of a loved one.

So, um, if you would share, you know,
not only how you got into this world,

but then a little bit of what inspired
you to, you know, create a program

and train practitioners and really
take it to beyond the next level.

Yeah, thank you, um, for that invitation,
and I will try to condense it, so in

April of 2000, my late husband, Isamu,
was diagnosed with a very aggressive

brain tumor, a glioblastoma multiforme,
when I was just seven weeks pregnant.

And so that experience took my
understanding of the conventional

medical model to a different level.

There were so many amazing things we
received from conventional medicine.

We were in San Francisco at the
time, and that's where one of

the best brain tumor centers is.

So we had the best care.

And at the same time, And at the same
time, it was the first time in our

early 30s that we were thrust into
the quote unquote medical system.

And I was identifying and recognizing
some really significant gaps that

I had never encountered before.

Those first two gaps were that people
are treated like their diagnosis.

So he was a glioblastoma multiforme.

You know, we have our diagnoses,
but we're treated like we are them.

And the second gap at that time that
I realized, I've since realized a lot

more, was that all people with the
same diagnosis are treated the same.

That is what the conventional model does.

It sees the difference.

Through that protocol X for Y lens.

So that time was what I consider
looking back my bootcamp.

Isamu, my late husband, was
given six months to live.

He actually lived two and a half years,
which gave him the great opportunity

and our son, the great opportunity to
have a little imprint, even though,

um, our son doesn't remember his dad.

He's 24 now, but yeah.

Yeah, that imprint was there.

And it took several years for me
to realize that there was something

in here that was my calling.

I worked in a very different field.

I was a production director and book
publishing for companies in New York,

working on very high powered books.

And I realized I had to put
myself back through school.

So I started scrambling,
doing lots of education.

Following my passion and it
evolved and evolved and evolved.

I became a health coach.

I recognized that there were differences
in the way I was looking at, uh,

a case at a health coaching case.

And I had a coach of my own that was
saying, you know, you're doing something

different than anybody else's doing.

And that's when I started opening my eyes.

I found functional medicine.

I realized that there was an adjacent
way of thinking to what I was doing

in nutrition and started to develop my
own methodologies, kind of inspired by

the Institute for Functional Medicine,
but making them my own and through the

scope of practice of lifestyle medicine.

So more of the dietary and
lifestyle modifications.

That then led me to having great
clinical results, leading more

people, practitioners, health coaches.

To ask for training, which, you
know, I didn't expect to create a

school where I've trained over 8, 500
practitioners, but now that is the case.

Yeah.

Amazing.

Is that condensed enough?

That was actually was, and I want to
highlight something you didn't even say

because I, and I, I really know this
goes back to your approach, um, just

You made a choice all those years ago.

Yes.

Right.

So I just want to, I want to commend
and express gratitude for that choice,

but also for listeners to understand,
like, we always have a choice.

And if you can't get from your story that
life can be really, really hard, yes.

Um, but you made a conscious decision
to find the gift or, or turn it into.

a gift, and not only for yourself, but
for, as you just said, it's not even

just the thousands of coaches that
you've trained, but all of the, you

know, it's that ripple effect, right?

All of the people that they touch.

Yes.

And, and, you know, I just wanted to
highlight that because I think that that's

the invitation for anybody listening.

Yes.

You, I know, are going to share
so much other goodness with

us in this conversation, but
every day we can make a choice.

Yes.

And, um, need to.

Yes, and I want to thank you for that
reflection and I received that and

I think of that as post traumatic
post traumatic growth, right?

That's the way I think
about what occurred.

And I do feel like and I
want to highlight this.

That the true purpose, which
was at the heart of everything

I was doing was in Isamu's name.

And so when we find the purpose,
the real why of what we're doing,

even in our own everyday lives, I
don't mean professionally, I mean

personally, when that why is built.

Bigger than us.

We will move mountains.

I had to learn things.

I still in business have to learn things
that I do not want to do or learn.

But the purpose of what I'm doing with
the actual work is what enables me to

do the things that I didn't think I
could, would, knew to do, wanted to do.

And so again, I, I think.

We can be hard on ourselves about not
doing it right, but I think some of the

work is in finding that deep purpose
that enables us to do that next thing.

Amen.

I mean, that is what
keeps us going, right?

In the unknown and in the growth,
because growth comes from discomfort.

And so if you're comfortable.

You're probably not growing, you
know, if, if you're seeking comfort.

Um, and, and so I don't know how one
could create sustainable change without

being in touch with their true purpose.

Yes.

And break it down, break it down.

We expect so much of ourselves.

And this is where I love
functional medicine and I'm in

service to functional medicine.

Um, but if I may, I'm going to say that
it's gone the way of conventional medicine

and that it's very protocol based.

And so I do feel like we're putting
a lot of pressure on ourselves as

people, especially women, especially
type a women with chronic health.

Concerns to do it.

All right, or not do it alone at all.

And what I see is that
people are frustrated.

They feel like it didn't work.

They took all the supplements.

They quote unquote healed their gut.

And I just want to say, we can
break it down and stack and learn.

Someone like you does a beautiful
job of helping people to make

sure it's right for them and then
next and then next and then next.

I just want to take the pressure away
from this idea of doing it all right,

going on this protocol, taking all these
things that has become the norm in our

field that I think is a disservice.

I, I so agree.

I think functional medicine has become,
you know, that umbrella that's gotten

just totally washed down and there are
amazing functional medicine providers

and there are people who shouldn't be
allowed to say their functional medicine,

you know, it's, it's just become, you
know, You know, a marketing tool really.

So I love, I love that, that you say that.

And, and I want to highlight, this is
not where I thought we were going to go.

Um, the perfectionism, you know,
somebody asked me once when they were

interviewing me, if I found that many
of my clients were perfectionists and

I literally giggled and was like, Every
single one, they may not all present

as type A, but that perfectionism
is, is part of, it is one of the

ingredients to, to, you know, struggle
with chronic illness to begin with.

Yes.

Um, and I'll take a, what I learned in
business is this beautiful tool for life,

which is that done is better than perfect.

Yes.

Yes.

Right.

And, and like, why did they
teach me that when I was a kid?

Like, why was that?

You know, I'm just going
to go here for a moment.

I know we have so many things to
cover, but I think that this is a

really important point because people
will often think I'm a perfectionist

because I have very high standards.

Standards, high standards of
excellence, but I'm not afraid to make

a mistake and make it progressive.

So really understanding that
persistence and perseverance

are better than perfection.

And I think what trained that
into me is that my undergraduate

degree is in art and design.

And in art and design, you
put your work on the wall.

outside of you for people to critique.

And you then go back and you rework
it and you learn and you keep going.

And I think that that exercise for me,
which we'll come back to some of our

conversations if we get into narrative
medicine, are not about perfection.

It's not about creating something or
doing something in a way that's there.

It's about Do and then do and then do
nobody climbs Mount Everest in a day.

It takes years and we have to think about
our base camps and know sometimes we're

going up and down and up and down just to
go forward and learn more along the way.

And I think that applies to our
health journey in such a profound

way that we've lost sight of
with everything that's fed to us.

Social media and media media.

Yeah.

And I, I think that, that we, especially,
you know, for listeners that are

somewhere in an autoimmune journey,
um, so often we just want someone

to tell us what to do to fix it.

Right.

It's, we're still stuck a little bit
in that historic Western medical model

of somebody else has our answers.

And if they tell me what to do
and I do it, problem solved.

And not the case.

We have the answer.

So it is not the case.

Um, so I want to talk a little bit
about, because your approach, you

didn't just say, okay, IFM is great
Institute of Functional Medicine.

I'm going to open my own version, right?

And, and because you're, you're
bringing you and your approach.

So let's talk a little bit about,
you know, what makes the Functional

Nutrition Alliance different.

Um, you have, you know, You're very
systems thinking oriented, which I'm

not saying if I'm doesn't have it.

Right.

That's not true.

Um, but share with us a little bit
about, I mean, your, your podcast

is the 15 minute matrix, right?

So let's talk about the matrix.

Yeah, let's talk about the matrix.

So I'm going to go back to the three
primary tenants that the Institute for

Functional Medicine, the Founding Fathers,
and they were, so I'm going to call

them Founding Fathers, really anchored
on, and for me, that is The premise

I'm continuing to work with and again,
I was already practicing and teaching

before I even found functional medicine.

It just gave it a different way of
I was like, Oh, this is related.

So those three founding principles
are a therapeutic partnership.

Looking for the root causes
and a systems based approach.

So a therapeutic partnership goes
back to what you just said, Julie, you

already know, and I see it as my job to
elevate the understanding of a patient.

To be a true partner in their
relationship with any provider,

including their medical provider.

So I always like to remind patients,
there are two experts in the room.

And one of those experts is
you, what are you the expert in?

Oh, you're the expert in your
body and yourself and your

symptoms and your history.

Let's figure out how
to bring that forward.

So you can be a partner
looking for the roots.

And I'm going to underscore the
S because I think that functional

medicine has become very root cause
focused and, uh, always plural.

Yeah.

And this sympathetic dominant,
let me find that root.

And I'm going to say it is not root.

It is roots.

Yes.

And that root, that, that
quest for the root is not.

is not going to lead to
a, a, um, healing journey.

It is a fixation that something's broken.

You'll find the one thing like you
were saying, and it all get better.

So looking for the roots, which
means we say, why is this happening?

Not just what do I do about it?

And a systems based approach
embraces systems biology, of course.

So we're recognizing the gut
and the brain connection, the

hormone and the liver and the gut.

We're seeing.

Seeing the connections inside, but I
also have created systems that allow us

to simplify what it is we're trying to
look at to think about it more clearly.

So those three premises, I am very
much in service to, but the scope

of practice is very different.

So functional medicine docs, for the
most part, and I'm not talking about

all of them, but they recognize that
diet and lifestyle modification matter.

How they actually double click and
focus on the physiological impacts

and implications of diet and lifestyle
modification is still lacking for many

of them due to time, scope of practice.

I, and the people I train, depending
on their scope of practice, because

doctors come through the program too,
do not diagnose, prescribe, or treat.

Instead, we assess,
recommend, track, repeat.

And we're understanding that deep
physiological connection between

what I call the right side of the
matrix coming back to the matrix.

And that physiological terrain.

So in my version of the matrix,
I'm just going to pause there,

and then I'll go matrix.

Any, any thoughts or questions
with that kind of setting?

You

know, I'm just cheering you
along at this point, right?

Of the, Yeah.

Like minded.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I'm just sitting here
nodding like, uh huh.

Uh huh.

Um, and, and I love that you and
people not like, they're amazing

positions, they're amazing coaches.

Like it, it doesn't.

Matter.

We, we joke all the time.

I mean, if listeners are
regular, they know, you know, my

partner in life is a physician.

He's been practicing functional medicine
since before it had a name like you.

Right.

And then all of a sudden there was
like, Oh, there's a name for this.

And now it's kind of gotten a
little washed out depending.

Um, but,

but we, I, even with us working,
when we work together, it's like,

okay, you know, the, the, how.

Yes.

It's still missing.

Yes.

His appointments with
patients, he spends two hours.

Yes.

And it's still not enough time
to, there's just too many things.

Um, and so I do think this, this
deeper level of, you know, why,

you can't always answer why.

Yes.

But you

track and you

look and you discover through
the lived experience, not through

a scale or a piece of paper.

I call it the qualitative measures
versus the quantitative measures.

And I also like the quantitative measures.

I love

both.

You know, the quantitative measures,
it's like, yes, you know, but

ultimately I want people to feel well.

Exactly.

And so that's the measure, right?

Yes.

What are the goals and are, are things
shifting in the right direction?

Exactly.

How do you feel?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So let me just talk about
this through the matrix.

Yeah.

The way I've redesigned the functional
medicine matrix with their permission.

So the functional nutrition matrix
has three sections that I call the

story, the soup, And the skill So the
soup is the internal terrain that body

systems area where we're constantly
focused on our signs, our symptoms,

and our diagnoses and we can kind
of map them on a, um, on a chart.

a center wheel that has different
physiological areas and start

to see connections there, or
at least take them out of our

head and put them down on paper.

But the right side and the left
side of the matrix that flank

that center wheel influence the
expression of that internal terrain.

So of course the skills section are
all the things we're trying to do.

Sleep and relaxation, exercise
and movement, nutrition and

hydration, stress and resilience,
relationships and networks.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

And there's no perfect, we need to
find out where you are at this moment

and make each next Step forward.

I will always say the non negotiable
trifecta is sleep, poop, and blood

sugar balance, and I know you've spoken
about all, but what I realized that was

that we were really skipping past the
extreme influence of the story story.

The story, the patient's story.

So when we talk about that, I want to
understand and I want us to understand

that the, um, what we're exposed to
again in media and in our healthcare

system is a, uh, hyper focus on what's
going on and what do I do about it.

And we've forgotten what got me here?

How do I better understand how
I got to this point in time?

And so that story, which in functional
medicine we call the ATMs, the

antecedents, the triggers, and the
mediators, is what led me on a quest to

uncover how we can more acutely bring
attention and awareness as patients to

what brought us to this point in time.

So that we can be better partners
in our health care journey.

And I just want to focus because you said,
um, that you want people to feel better.

And I love, like, we want that
qualitative feel in functional medicine.

If we think about the
antecedents, what got me here?

The triggers, what's this
life that I've lived?

When I say antecedents, I mean,
what did I just come in with?

What was a given triggers what
happened through my life journey.

The mediators are the gold.

I see my job as helping people
expand their pocket of mediators.

So they are Back in control, more control
of their health and control is a slippery

word, but you have more influence by
saying, this makes me feel better.

This makes me feel worse.

If I'm going to do something
that I know makes me feel worse,

I'm in a risk reward situation.

I get to make that decision
in the moment, but I know.

And so I see my job as expanding
people's understanding of their own

personal mediators, and that gives
us back so much more influence.

It's the power.

It is.

I joke and I say, you know, in three
years, you're not going to Avoid gluten.

I'll pick on that one because everybody
knows how I feel about that for the

autoimmune population specifically.

Yes.

Um, but just because Julie said or
Andrea said or you read, you know, oh,

gluten's not good for, you know, it's
part of the problem, doesn't matter.

It does not, is not going to matter.

It's how you feel when we get you feel,
you know, that is the, that's the gold.

And I love it.

You say pocket.

I say toolbox, right?

It's not, it's like when you watch
people roll their eyes, when you

mentioned stress management, right?

And they think I'm saying
avoid all your stressors.

Right?

No, that's not possible.

Let's give you create resilience
by, you know, the, these.

tools.

Yes.

Having that, that big expanded pocket.

Yes.

And so I, I love, which I knew
I would, I love your approach.

Um, and I can hear the, the
direct connect to your story.

I mean, it just makes so much.

This goes back to, again, the what's
the problem and tell me what to do

to fix it is the same diagnosis pill.

Correct.

That we've spent decades, you know, and
so we took that same model and we just

put different things in those boxes.

Yes.

And it doesn't work.

Correct.

Yeah,

correct.

And it's a hard reframe, right?

It's not sexy because we
really just want the fix.

And I'm often reminding
people, you are not broken.

I mean, this is one thing I love
about regular old serum labs.

I will create a chart for people
with the trend of their labs and make

everything green and focus first.

Trend is important.

Um, look first and foremost
at like, let's look at what's

working in your body, right?

Let's focus for a minute on all the green
we see on this spreadsheet in front of us.

Like, can we just applaud
that for a moment?

Because we're so eager to
look for what's broken in us.

And we forget that our body
has infinite healing potential.

And we actually have a pharmacy
within that through narrative

medicine, I'm starting to anchor on
more that I think we've left behind.

Things like belonging.

And feeling included and
love and joy and being moved.

Like there are things we can
access that we don't need.

anybody else to prescribe to us that
we can tap into that are not just our

story like, oh, and then this happened
to me and then this happened to me

and then, but, oh, when I go to dance
class, I notice that my heart rate

variability that night goes up in a
positive way because I'm exercising, but

I'm part of a community and I feel joy.

Yeah, like.

Little things that I think we've
left behind in our incessant

quest for this affirmation that we
are broken and have to be fixed.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

And I love that you use the word joy.

I do feel like it is a missing ingredient
for so many people in wellness.

And people look at me like it, that
is always the saddest part for me.

When I ask a client,
what, what brings you joy?

And they give me the
deer in the headlights.

Yes.

Yes.

You know, they're,
they're, they're driven.

They're, you know, all the things
and they haven't, Um, but it's also

really healing and it's never too
late to, to reconnect with joy with

community, with all these things that
I always say, you know, there's all

this talk now about blue zones and
everyone, again, what do they focus on?

What are they eating?

You know?

Exactly.

Right.

Well, how about the fact that it's
there, these are communities, these

are tight knit communities with,
you talked about it before, purpose.

Yes.

The 80 year old woman who's still teaching
and walking up the hill and yes, they're

eating good food and they're, they're
moving, you know, and exercise is just

a daily part of life, but it's that
community and connection and joy that

We have just kind of negated as like,
Oh, you know, I'll get to that later.

Yes.

Yeah.

And I think that we are actually
tapping into it, but we're

looking for the big ways, right?

So first of all, you're singing my
language because my focus in the

narrative medicine, functional medicine
intersection I'm doing is longevity

for women, 50s, 60s, and beyond.

Because I think our ages.

We've lost a sense of purpose that was,
um, ubiquitous for our generation for

the first time in history as women,
if we had children, they're not only

out of the house, but they may be
launched enough that like we aren't

even parents in the same way we've
had careers that we no longer have the

Purpose or that purpose is shifting,
that significance is shifting in life

and longevity, as you're saying, isn't
just about what we eat, what we take,

what blue light we're, uh, exposed to.

There are a lot, which exactly, exactly.

It's so much more.

And I think there's opportunity
for us to reframe longevity and

find something different with.

But I also want to say, like,
joy doesn't have to be, I

live my life in joy every day.

I do think there are these moments.

I don't know that anybody does.

Exactly.

But I think that's what we're looking for.

And I also just want to say, one
of the things I'm loving about this

intersection in my own work, in my own
writing, is where the science comes in.

If you look at the science of belonging
and, and I just want to anchor on that

because we'll be like, Oh yeah, whatever
belonging community doesn't matter.

But it actually scientifically is
shown to suppress inflammatory genes.

It does reduce inflammation
supports gut brain connection.

Influences oxytocin and
dopamine production.

Like we forget that there's other ways to
access the internal pharmacy that aren't

about taking, acting, doing more and more
and more, which for my type A sisters,

I just want to say like, hold on, you
got something more to work with here.

It's cheap.

It's easy.

And you can find it.

Everybody has it.

Yes.

It is, it is part of the, how
we are designed and created.

Um, I want to back, uh, because I
was so excited for this conversation

that I'm like, you know, more,
more, more, tell us more.

Um, let's talk, just share with listeners.

What is narrative medicine?

No, I'm using this

term and it's like,

it's,

it's a fairly young and very
pedagogical, so academic.

practice.

It was, it's really only in
like it's 20 or so years.

Um, Dr. Rita Chiron is one of its
founders and the, uh, creator of

the program at Columbia University.

And it really is in its most basic form,
a practice for teaching providers empathy.

That's how I'm going to Really make
it like condensed and I did write an

article on my personal website about what
narrative medicine means to me, if anyone

wants to lead read a little bit more.

Ultimately, it's about deep listening.

So, for a provider, how is it that
we activate our deep listening

to hear what's in the synapses
of the story we're being told.

I believe, and this is where the work is
for me, that as patients, we can engage

in these same practices to activate
our deep listening with ourselves.

And this is where we are tuning in.

And again, it's not necessarily
to the minutiae of this happened

to me, and then this happened all.

Though the beauty of the timeline
is important too, but there's more.

Yes, it sometimes might just be
engaging with a poem or a piece of art

or a movie and feeling what comes up.

in us and allowing time to savor that
emotion, that response, which starts

to reveal other clues about ourselves
that we can more actively tap into

to unlock that internal pharmacy.

So narrative medicine is deep listening.

Deep listening is something
I think we've lost.

as patients in relationship with our
bodies, which is its own therapeutic

partnership in favor of doing what
you said, farming it out, giving our

agency away, asking for somebody to
just tell us what to do and how to do

it, to make it all better now, please.

So well, well put in a way
that we can all understand.

And again, it's for the, it's for
the practitioner and the patient,

most importantly for the patient.

But yes, this is where the magic comes in.

I heard one doctor refer to it as
listening radically with compassion.

And I, I, I, that stuck with me
because it's an extra level, right?

Like we can all say,
Oh, I'm a good listener.

Of course I'm a good listener.

I'm

empathetic.

Yeah.

Um, but that rad, it is radical.

It used to just be listening.

I truly believe, you know, 2000 years ago.

That was just correct.

How

we listened

thousand percent.

Yeah.

And in narrative medicine, we might engage
the humanities to exercise that muscle.

And when I say that we engage in
the humanities, that is where the

human condition is being shown.

And so we don't exercise the
muscle only in clinical care.

And as patients, we don't only exercise
the muscle in like, what's every

little thing about my navel going on.

We might engage with another human
expression and then allow ourselves to

think, sink into that experience and we
start to build a radical listening muscle.

I love that a radical listening muscle
and I, I want to highlight, because

I believe in really, really simple
terms back to that empathetic piece.

It's the feeling it's the, and, and
as a protective mechanism, most people

struggling with chronic illness.

Have disengaged from feeling.

Yes.

And the feeling is where the healing is.

Yes.

And so I love, I, you know, I
got so excited that I'm like,

wow, you know, it doesn't get
better than Columbia University.

Right.

Like, and to me, this is just
another, you know, new thing.

academic area that is studying
something that's been there all along.

Yes.

We're finding a new approach and a way
to train people to help heal others,

you know, themselves and others.

Yeah.

I mean, I'll give you an example.

I was at a workshop that's part of
my program in the spring and, uh,

it's a, it's a very room of people
coming from all different backgrounds.

But there was a young woman,
the same age as my son, who's

applying to medical school.

And we were in a small group, and we were
reading a poem and talking about the poem.

And a lot of the people from
my cohort were there, and we

kind of know how practice this.

You know, you, you learn the muscle.

Somebody newer doesn't have the
muscle and that's the fun I have in

the workshops I'm teaching is helping
people to start to exercise that muscle.

But she said, I just
don't understand poetry.

And I said, this is the beauty
of narrative medicine because

the human condition is messy.

It's not linear.

It's not given to us in a very, uh,
thought through, this is what it is,

like a test, prescriptive, and when
we encounter something like poetry,

it's messy, it's confusing, but our
experience Time to sit with that and go,

what's really in here is that radical
listening muscle because a patient

is likely not telling us the story in
that linear way, or necessarily even

in what needs to be told, and we have
to listen again in those synapses.

And I just want to come back to
the patient because I work in both.

Right.

Realms.

Yeah.

Um, we can be doing that with ourselves
in such a beautiful, compassionate way

that allows us to tap into so much more
of our healing potential that I really

do believe we're leaving on the shelf.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, because.

I don't know that you could have true
lasting healing without that piece.

No,

you could feel better.

Yes.

You know, but, but true healing.

And then if you think of again, back
to the ripple effect of, and you, you

mentioned this already, but you know,
then it's once somebody has that skill,

And you think of the interactions that
person has, you know, as a possibly a

parent, a partner, a coworker, I mean,
just in general, Oh my gosh, then the

world becomes a better place again.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes.

Wow.

I know.

It feels very wow to me.

But again, like.

It's not necessarily the sexiest thing.

Like it is, you know, I teach
thousands of providers, right?

Yeah.

In the beginning, you talked
about like exercising the muscle,

you

know, and, and I know from, even from
experience as somebody who always liked

that methodical, you know, um, that when
we start to exercise that muscle, we

just have to step into that discomfort.

Correct.

Um, because.

That's not most of us haven't been
exercising that muscle all along.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah.

And it's really just a, I find it an
incredibly beautiful and incredibly

healing practice and Again, I know
it's hard to access and it's why I'm

offering quarterly narrative medicine
free narrative medicine workshops just

for people to get in touch with it like
I want to bring it out of the academic

world that it sits in and, you know,
Bring it into the everyday in some way.

Give people that tool and that question.

Yes, for me, it definitely is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I love that.

And I think again, back to empowerment.

And responsibility, right?

Like as a patient, as a human, but
as, you know, to sit on the patient

side of, you know, with the power to
create the good change and, and, you

know, comes well, then guess what?

I'm also responsible, right?

To weigh the risks of, you know, what
consequences am I going to have if, yes.

Um, how, how is there a way?

Is it, you know, through you, like,
how does somebody find, okay, you know,

they're, they're really intrigued about
this, but how do they find providers?

Cause it's almost like a secret tool.

Yeah.

Yeah, I

think it's, yes,

it definitely is a secret tool and I
don't know that there's like any, I

don't know that there's any like, um,
you know, a place you can go and say

this person's trained in, I find that the
people who are most interested, I mean,

palliative care doctors, Pediatricians,
like people who are really questioning

what's the current in medicine.

And I do feel like, you know,
if you're a patient looking

to tap into this for yourself.

That hopefully what I'm starting to
offer more of, whether it's through

the writing, I mean my blogs aren't
blogs, they're chapters of my book,

like they're, it's really diving in
and asking the question and maybe doing

a prompt and how do we sit with these
opportunities that exist within us.

I also think we have very high
expectations of our physicians these

days to be the be all and end all, to
be the radical listener, to understand

diet and lifestyle modification.

We're not asking our doctors to tell
us which sheets to buy, or toilet

paper, or toothpaste, or jeans, but
we're expecting a lot of our doctors.

So I really.

Do you feel like there was a point in
time in my own professional journey that

I was like, I have to train more providers
to be thinking differently about care.

And I'm still doing that
very actively every day.

But at the same time, I'm
starting to realize, wait a

minute, I got to train patients.

So we're not only looking to, where do I
find the doctor who can do all the things?

Yeah, at our clinic, we actually
have as part of the intake, you know,

our, I like to call them clients,
patients, whatever you want to call

them, literally to sign that they will
be active participants in their care.

Otherwise.

We're not the right fit.

Exactly.

Then our hands are tied.

Exactly.

And I think that there, besides the
interventions that we do need help

with from a knowledgeable provider,
we also need to, or can, tap into some

of the knowledge that exists within to
help ourselves along the way as well.

So there's a real interest for me in
that next evolution of my own work, which

when I say pocket, I feel like in many
ways it's putting functional medicine

into the pocket of of the patient, but
within their scope, our scope of practice.

We all have different scopes, a
health coach, a nutritionist, a

physician, those are different scopes.

And a patient has a scope too.

And there's a lot of time between
the visits and recommendations that

you get from any of your providers.

And there's more we can tap into that's
within our scope during that time.

I love that.

Amazing.

And, and that's what I always
said that, um, in this day and

age, you know, a healthcare team.

Yes.

Um, and the most important person
on the team is the patient.

Center of the matrix.

Yes.

Amazing.

I promised I was going
to let you go on time.

So I'm going to do my
best to keep my word.

Um, I want to ask, you know,
listeners are leaning in now

because they know what's coming.

What is, from your perspective, one step
that listeners can take starting today to

move the needle and improve their health?

Yeah, I'm going to give us a step that is
bring us back to that self empowerment.

I'm actually thinking
of two steps if I can.

Of course.

So step number one is spend a little
time with what you know makes you

feel better and makes you feel worse.

Those mediators, as we call
them in functional medicine.

Just spend a little time.

I sometimes call it a yes, no, maybe list.

Like, what do you know
makes you feel good?

What do you know doesn't
make you feel good?

And what are you not sure that
you've done along the way?

And just taking the time to gather
that information is really, really

helpful and will set you up to
be a better partner with whoever

you're looking to, to get support.

So that's one thing I want
to invite people to do.

A yes, no, maybe list.

You can do it just about food.

Everything, whatever you want to do, yes,
no, maybe the second thing I just want

to say, because I think this is really
important for us as patients to understand

is that we tend to overload our provider.

With our signs and our symptoms in
the same sentence and to a medical

provider, your signs and your symptoms
are actually different things.

Your signs can be measured and your
symptoms are felt, but not measured.

So if you're unconscious.

They don't know your symptoms.

They do know your signs.

They can see, they can tell if you
have a fever, a rash, but when you

say I have a rash and I'm fatigued
and I have a headache and those are

like two different languages coming
at that provider at the same time.

So another preparation step I like
to invite patients to do before they

see their provider is separate the
things that you know can be measured.

versus those that can't.

So you can say my ferritin's been
low for seven years, but you can also

say I feel fatigued all the time.

I get up and I have a cup of coffee and
I feel like I can get right back in bed.

Like those are two separate things.

So I just like to give people that nugget
so that we're building the bridge to

the person we're asking to be our guide.

I love

that.

Building the bridge to the person
we're asking to be our guide.

And that is, again, back to responsibility
of, um, I love, it's taking the time

and taking the time has, can take the
time to feel, take the time to notice,

take the time to record, to prepare.

Yes.

Um, and, and so, because yeah, when
we're just spitting out this bucket.

Um, it's sometimes going to take even
longer to get underneath and figure

out what's really driving things.

Yes.

You know, how, how many root
causes there are going on.

Yes.

Um, uh, so amazing for people that
are listening on the go and aren't

going to check the show notes.

Where is the best place to find you?

Yeah, if you head over to Andrea
Nakayama on the web, on Instagram, on

LinkedIn, Andrea Nakayama is going to
lead you back to the Functional Nutrition

Alliance, to any podcast, this podcast,
all the blogs that I'm talking about.

Yeah.

So Andrea Nakayama is the one place
to go that will Lead you to the matrix

of other opportunities of the matrix.

There

it is again.

I love it.

It's a she's not done ladies and
gentlemen I so i'm so grateful.

I know I called you andrea andrea I
really appreciate you just the way you

show up, you know, I, I won't drool again
about the, the contribution you're making

to, to everyone who is willing to lean
in and, and risk a little discomfort.

Um, but really appreciate just the way
you showed up today for us and the amount

of amazing things you've given all of us
to, to really ponder and perhaps feel.

Yeah.

Same, same.

You're such a gift to your community
and, um, such a joy to speak with.

Thank you for having me.

Truly my pleasure.

For everyone listening, remember
you can get those show notes and

transcripts by visiting inspiredliving.

show.

I hope you had a great time and
enjoyed this episode as much as I did.

Maybe give it a second listen and
you'll get even more things out of it.

I hope you all have a great week.