Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Welcome to The B2B CMO Podcast, a show for marketing executives who are redefining what it means to be a strategic leader. Join Jon Miller and Sydney Sloan every week as they talk with the very best Chief Marketing Officers who are navigating the modern marketing playbook and positioning themselves as strategic leaders.
Each episode, we unpack what it really takes to lead through complexity, earn trust at the strategy table, and shape the future of growth.
We’re building the community, research, and frameworks CMOs need to reclaim their strategic role and drive sustainable growth.
For more marketing leadership resources, visit [b2bcmoproject.com](http://b2bcmoproject.com/).
B2B CMO - 008 - Chris Bontempo
===
[00:00:00]
Jon Miller: [00:00:05] [00:00:10] [00:00:15] [00:00:20] Hello to today's [00:00:25] episode of the B2B CMO Project podcast. I'm Jon Miller [00:00:30] and my guest today started his career actually as [00:00:35] a research analyst, and he fell into tech almost by accident during the internet boom. And [00:00:40] then he spent nearly 20 years at IBM working his way up from analyst all the way to chief marketing [00:00:45] officer of IBM Americas.
Jon Miller: Today, he's the CMO of Jonson [00:00:50] Controls, which is a 140 year old company and a global leader in thermal [00:00:55] management. Mission critical building systems, energy efficiency and decarbonization. [00:01:00] But what I really find interesting about him is that he [00:01:05] never, I think, really left that rule of analysts behind. Um, he's vocal about how [00:01:10] AI is rewiring the marketing operating model, and on the idea that marketing should own [00:01:15] market intelligence and use it to shape company strategy, not just run demand.[00:01:20]
Jon Miller: So Chris Bontempo, welcome.
Chris Bontempo: Hey. Thanks Jon. Thanks for having me. Uh, pleased [00:01:25] to, to be here on the B2B CMO project podcast.
Jon Miller: So we [00:01:30] always like to start just by getting to know our guests, you know, a little bit as humans. [00:01:35] Um, so I guess to begin with, like, you know, I, I like, you know, what would be your [00:01:40] origin story if this were a superhero movie, and what would be your CMO [00:01:45] superpower?
Chris Bontempo: Oh man. What a question. What a question to start off with. So [00:01:50] my origin story is a, uh. CMOs superhero. Well, I, [00:01:55] you know, I think first of all, let's all approach life with humility and, uh, I don't think any of us are [00:02:00] true, true superheroes. But, uh, let's, let's play with this one a little bit. [00:02:05] Um, you know, I, I think you nailed it in the intro.
Chris Bontempo: I kind of fell into [00:02:10] marketing to be begin with. So, um. I, I, [00:02:15] I was one of those people who didn't quite know what they wanted to do when they came outta college. So I messed [00:02:20] around for a few years, had some adventures, uh, and, uh, lucked [00:02:25] into marketing at the height of the internet, boom. And for all of, uh, the Gen Zers out [00:02:30] there.
Chris Bontempo: You can look that up in Wikipedia and see what that, that actually was,
Chris Bontempo: um.
Jon Miller: we [00:02:35] get too much further, you studied European studies,
Chris Bontempo: Yeah, I, I, again, I, I [00:02:40] tend, I guess to, uh, maybe my superpower is falling into
Chris Bontempo: things. I fell into [00:02:45] a European studies major, uh, in undergrad because I looked at the core [00:02:50] requirements at the end of my sophomore year and realized I had already fulfilled 90% of the [00:02:55] requirements for a European studies major, and the only remaining one was to go abroad, which I [00:03:00] was gonna do anyway.
Chris Bontempo: Um, and so, uh, so European studies, it was, [00:03:05] uh, which turned out to be a blessing in disguise because, uh, what you learned was how to learn, [00:03:10] right? I took on, uh, you know, economics, uh, law, [00:03:15] um, literature, language history, and you could [00:03:20] pick and choose whatever you wanted outta those. But you learned how to learn in each of those subjects.[00:03:25]
Chris Bontempo: Uh, and it gave me a really broad, uh, broad range of. Things to [00:03:30] talk about, things to learn about, and, uh, a way to look at the world that included all those [00:03:35] disciplines. And so I think when, you know, if I bring this into marketing a little bit, uh, [00:03:40] you, you mentioned it, right? You start with a, a, an analytical base, a fact [00:03:45] base.
Chris Bontempo: Um, and if you've got some, some analytical skills, you can, [00:03:50] across all these disciplines, you can apply those analytical skills to all the different kind of fact bases you're [00:03:55] getting. Whether they're quantitative, whether they're qualitative, whether they're. [00:04:00] Um, you know, more and more kind of aspirational fact bases on what we think the world is gonna [00:04:05] look like.
Chris Bontempo: You apply some analytical tools to 'em and see what, uh, see what conclusions you draw, and [00:04:10] then take some actions. I, I would like to say, you know, with the benefit of hindsight that, [00:04:15] that started, uh, with my undergrad education.
Jon Miller: And then 18 [00:04:20] years at IBM, uh, kind of growing up through the ranks, can you just tell us about how that shaped [00:04:25] you?
Chris Bontempo: Yeah, so before everybody pencils me in as a, uh, you know, [00:04:30] uh, uh, always a big corporation person. Uh, 'cause, uh, IBM is [00:04:35] nothing, if not, not big. Um, I. I did get my [00:04:40] startup stripes before that and helped, uh, helped run a startup into the ground as, uh, [00:04:45] as some of us had the privilege of doing in the, in the aughts.
Chris Bontempo: And, [00:04:50] um, I, I like to think about that because those are the days where, you know. [00:04:55] You, I learned a ton taking risks in the startup world and figuring out, just doing every [00:05:00] job possible to figure out, um, you know, maybe how to, how to move a business forward. [00:05:05] We, we were, uh, a business, uh, ahead of its time in a market [00:05:10] that never arrived.
Chris Bontempo: And so, uh, you know, those, those present some pretty [00:05:15] particular challenges. We persevered. And then, uh, and then ultimately it didn't happen. I [00:05:20] went to business school and then moved into IBM uh, afterwards.
Chris Bontempo: [00:05:25] IBM is an amazing place, uh, to get a marketing education. [00:05:30] E Every marketing job that you can imagine [00:05:35] exists in some form or fashion.
Chris Bontempo: At IBM. It's because the company, [00:05:40] it does, it's active in so many different markets. It has so many different customer [00:05:45] types. They have hardware, they have software, they have services. They're a [00:05:50] global entity that has local execution. Um, and it's a tech company, [00:05:55] uh, at its heart. It is a, a, a tech company full of forward thinkers who [00:06:00] like to engage in the world with other forward thinkers and make progress.
Chris Bontempo: And [00:06:05] I think for somebody like me who was really curious about a lot of different things and but needed to [00:06:10] find their way as a marketer, it was a great place to start. Where did I [00:06:15] start? I started as an analyst because that's what I was good at. I knew how to analyze companies [00:06:20] and markets and take them apart a little bit, figure out what made them tick.
Chris Bontempo: Um, and [00:06:25] then what I learned was strategy IBM is a strategy behemoth. They, [00:06:30] they really do know how to do business strategy. You don't, IBM's been around for, you know, more than a [00:06:35] hundred years through multiple technology transformations and what you learn [00:06:40] working with people who've been through at least one or two of those transformations is how to pivot.[00:06:45]
Chris Bontempo: Companies resources to growth areas and figure it out. [00:06:50] And, uh, as an analyst, I learned that. And then when I moved into more execution [00:06:55] roles, you learn, you are feet on the street figuring out how to, how to pivot a whole, you know, [00:07:00] billion dollar businesses in short timeframes to, uh, to help grow that [00:07:05] company.
Jon Miller: Well, that's fascinating, and it probably is partly then what [00:07:10] the appeal of Jonson Controls was as 140 year old company.
Chris Bontempo: Yeah. Yeah. I, I [00:07:15] like to joke that I went, somehow went from a 110 year old company to an even older [00:07:20] company, uh, with Jonson Controls. But I think with these, like we're [00:07:25] talking about some of the big brands, uh, in American business over the last, you know, a hundred [00:07:30] plus years, um. And I think the unite, the unifying factor between the [00:07:35] two was that they were full of great people who like to think about things and [00:07:40] come up with, you know, ways to help customers.
Chris Bontempo: Address needs, different [00:07:45] needs, but really engaged, super intelligent. Interesting [00:07:50] people who just wanted problem solve. Uh, and so while I [00:07:55] was, when I moved from IBM to Jonson Controls, you know, we're, we're marketing [00:08:00] different products and offerings, different services. It's still [00:08:05] great people behind the scenes who are making it all happen.
Chris Bontempo: And so I think that was, uh, that, that [00:08:10] made the transition somewhat, uh, easier for me.
Jon Miller: All right. [00:08:15] And just, you know, finishing up getting to know you, you know, a little bit view outside of [00:08:20] work, you know, what are your, do you have passions, hobbies? What is your [00:08:25] typical nine five to nine look like?
Chris Bontempo: Yeah, so, you know, somehow, [00:08:30] uh, having worked 19 years at IBM and then moved to a company based, [00:08:35] uh, it was based everywhere, but it has a center of gravity in the Midwest, I've managed to stay in New York [00:08:40] City for that entire time period. So, uh, I'm a New Yorker. Uh, I live, uh, [00:08:45] here in the city with my family.
Chris Bontempo: Um, we've somehow managed to raise three kids in [00:08:50] Manhattan, which, uh, is, uh, really thanks to my wife who's, uh, who, who does, [00:08:55] does amazing, uh, work there. Um.
Jon Miller: Okay.
Chris Bontempo: Five to [00:09:00] nine, you know, for me to relax, uh, and enjoy life. It's family. [00:09:05] Uh, I play guitar, uh, which, uh, you know, whenever I really [00:09:10] need a, a break the guitar, I break the guitar out.
Chris Bontempo: I even have a guitar in my office, uh, [00:09:15] for, uh, you know, Friday afternoons. Um, and then the, the, [00:09:20] the other thing is, um. I still somehow [00:09:25] managed to drag my, drag myself onto the soccer field at least once or [00:09:30] twice a week to play, you know, somewhat competitive, uh, soccer. [00:09:35] And, uh, what I love about that is when you get out onto the soccer field and on the [00:09:40] teams that I play, and nobody knows who you are.
Chris Bontempo: Right. There's no hierarchy. The, the only hierarchy is [00:09:45] can you score goals? Can you be a team contributor or not? Nobody cares what your [00:09:50] job is. I don't think they even know what my job is. Um, and, uh, it's just a good group of [00:09:55] people. And, uh, and I think that that keeps me grounded. You know, you can, uh, [00:10:00] you can have a great soccer game or you can have a terrible soccer game, but at the end of the day, it's always [00:10:05] good 'cause you're out on the field playing soccer and it's just fun.
Jon Miller: Yeah, [00:10:10] winning and scoring as a team, so Awesome. All right. Well, so [00:10:15] I want to pivot to something we always like to. Talk about on the [00:10:20] podcast, you know, as, as the B2B CMO project is the changing role of the [00:10:25] CMO. Uh, so you know what, you know, we, and we talk [00:10:30] about the importance of being a strategic CMO. What, what does that mean to you, you [00:10:35] know, to, to be a strategic CMO?
Jon Miller: What is something that you do [00:10:40] as a strategic CMO that maybe tactical CMOs don't do?
Chris Bontempo: So it's [00:10:45] interesting, I, I think part of being a strategic CMO is. [00:10:50] Having a strong perspective on the business and the [00:10:55] market and ultimately the customer. Um, and so I think you, you can [00:11:00] be executing tactics and you can be a great, you know, tactical [00:11:05] execution person and have a team that that does that. Um, but you [00:11:10] have to bring the insight from all that execution into [00:11:15] the strategic conversation that happens around the table with your C-Suite peers.[00:11:20]
Chris Bontempo: And I think marketers, I always said this, marketers are in a unique position [00:11:25] because Jon, we don't carry a quota, [00:11:30] right? So when you're out there talking to customers, and I and, and I, and [00:11:35] I at the heart of it, believe that CMOs and marketers need to be out [00:11:40] talking to customers in real life in these interactions, not just.[00:11:45]
Chris Bontempo: Reading research or reports or you know, even your CX [00:11:50] survey feedback, like all you gotta do all that, it's great, but you need to be out [00:11:55] there getting the feedback directly from customers, talking to customers [00:12:00] representing your company. Uh. I operate my teams with three [00:12:05] core principles. Number one is no daylight between sales and marketing, which is kind of table [00:12:10] stakes for marketers at this point.
Chris Bontempo: Number two is be the voice of the customer back into [00:12:15] the company, uh, and, and, and the third is to be the, the [00:12:20] energy supplier into, you know, the ecosystem of everybody around you. [00:12:25] But that second principle of being the voice of the customer, I think that's what lets you. [00:12:30] Get into the, that strategic conversation around the C-Suite [00:12:35] table.
Chris Bontempo: And if you don't have that, you're, you're not gonna be [00:12:40] there. Right? Or you won't be there for very long.
Jon Miller: how do you operationalize [00:12:45] that at a company as complex as Jonson Controls, right? You have so many different businesses and so many [00:12:50] customers. You know, you, Chris Bontempo, cannot be talking to [00:12:55] all those customers all the time. So how do you actually make that work in an [00:13:00] enterprise of your scale?
Chris Bontempo: Yes. So the only way to do it is to inspire [00:13:05] followership, set the example and have your people. [00:13:10] Ready to go out and do it. Train them, enable them, empower them, [00:13:15] coach them. Uh, I, I, I'll give you another soccer analogy. It's like, [00:13:20] uh, I coached my kids' soccer teams for a while. It's coaching kids' soccer. You tell [00:13:25] them how to tell people how to do something.
Chris Bontempo: You show them how to do it, and then you have them go do it. [00:13:30] Um, and so it's not. You know, nothing. Here is the Bon show, right? [00:13:35] So it's, it's not just me, it's getting my [00:13:40] whole team comfortable out doing it. Like everybody here has to buy into [00:13:45] no daylight between sales and marketing and being the voice of the customer back into the [00:13:50] company.
Chris Bontempo: Uh, I do remember when I was at IBM, we started this in our [00:13:55] cybersecurity marketing team that I led for, for many years in the Americas. [00:14:00] And. There was a moment where we, I was at an event with my [00:14:05] team and we had put up two subject matter experts to present and then take [00:14:10] Q and a from probably 20 clients at a small session, [00:14:15] and I won't say the city or the year or the time or the [00:14:20] product, but I don't wanna shame anybody but that.
Chris Bontempo: That was a terrible event. [00:14:25] It was just like nothing. Nothing went well. The [00:14:30] communication, our subject matter experts were so smart and so good, but they could not [00:14:35] communicate the value. They couldn't communicate technically what they were, what was so [00:14:40] important to them, what they, what the customers needed to hear.
Chris Bontempo: And I, I remember huddling with my [00:14:45] team afterwards and just being like, we, we could do better. We [00:14:50] could do better at communicating the value of IBM cybersecurity, [00:14:55] our solutions, our products, and then we can bring in the subject matter experts [00:15:00] and get them to communicate the technical aspects of what we, of what these [00:15:05] customers want to hear.
Chris Bontempo: But in order to do that. We need to pr. We need to learn. We need to [00:15:10] practice, and we need to get our reps live and put ourselves in these pressure situations [00:15:15] in front of customers. And the team was like, oh, that's great. Great, great, great. Love it. And then everybody looked around at each [00:15:20] other. Who's gonna do that?
Chris Bontempo: And [00:15:25] yeah, I was a leader, so I, I, it was my job. So I went and I did the next [00:15:30] five of those things. I taught, I learned. And uh, and then we started [00:15:35] teaching everybody on the team how to do it. And we built a team of people who could all go out and do that. [00:15:40] And when that all comes together and you see your people with the confidence and belief to go do it, it's a, it's an [00:15:45] amazing feeling.
Chris Bontempo: And I think that's what we're trying to build. At Jonson Controls [00:15:50] too. I think all my teams, that's aspirationally what we want to happen. And you hit [00:15:55] some, you miss some, but you know, you're, you're always trying to be on that upward trajectory to get [00:16:00] better.
Jon Miller: anything else on, you know, kind of something that, that you think [00:16:05] is making an impact as a strategic CMO that, [00:16:10] that, you know, maybe a tactical CMOs aren't doing?
Chris Bontempo: We hear the conversation a lot, [00:16:15] Jon, about how people saying MQLs are dead.
Jon Miller: I've heard [00:16:20] it.
Chris Bontempo: You, you've
Chris Bontempo: heard it.
Chris Bontempo: Uh, some of us, [00:16:25] some of us are true believers in that some of us are probably me are kind of like, Hey, they're dead [00:16:30] ish. But you know, there's, there's still some signs of life, [00:16:35] um, in there, I think to be a true, true partner. [00:16:40] You have to have that business conversation, right? Or again, around that [00:16:45] C-suite table with your peers. And the business conversation is not MQLs [00:16:50] right? The business conversation is ultimately did what we did as [00:16:55] marketers with our sales and product management and services [00:17:00] colleagues. When it came together, did it deliver a, you know, a revenue outcome for the [00:17:05] company that really matters and.
Chris Bontempo: In order to get there, [00:17:10] you have to do all the marketing blocking and tackling from demand creation to capture, [00:17:15] to conversion and all the things that we, and expansion, the things that we talk about as marketers. And in [00:17:20] there somewhere in that mix are MQLs
Jon Miller: Yep.
Chris Bontempo: The very [00:17:25] tactical marketers who think only in terms of, can I get those, the number of leads in, or [00:17:30] the number of MQLs like, that's not the business conversation, right?
Chris Bontempo: So you have [00:17:35] to be able to hang with your CFO in the conversation around secured revenue. [00:17:40] You know, what does that mean for profitability and what does that mean for the [00:17:45] business itself and, and, and know what your contribution is there. So I think that [00:17:50] CMOs need to have that financial acumen. That maybe [00:17:55] 15, 10, 15 years ago, it was easier just to talk about lead volumes and, and [00:18:00] MQLs I think that's, that's what's shifting. I still do have conversations about MQLs [00:18:05] though, so I, I, I have to admit that
Jon Miller: Fair enough. So, I [00:18:10] I, I wanna pull that thread for just a second though, because, you know, I think a lot of CMOs [00:18:15] I've spoken to, you know, embrace this idea of no daylight with [00:18:20] sales. You know, it's a shared number we're doing in this together, which makes all the sense in the [00:18:25] world. And yet then when you sit down with the CFO and the C FFO [00:18:30] says, well, how do I know why I should increase your budget versus the sales budget?[00:18:35]
Jon Miller: You know, 'cause it's all the same number to me that CMO finds himself in a [00:18:40] harder place to defend it, uh, than when it was like, well, because you'll lose the mql. [00:18:45] Um, sounds like you're, you're, you're going into that you're, you're, you have the no [00:18:50] daylight, but you also are able to talk to the CFO about what marketing is doing.
Chris Bontempo: [00:18:55] Yeah, we, uh, yeah, I think that's a fair statement. We, we. [00:19:00] Well, nobody, I don't know anybody who would say they've nailed attribution [00:19:05] in this world. And if, uh, if you've nailed attribution, please hit me up. 'cause I'm, I'm [00:19:10] interested. Um, but I think there are steps along [00:19:15] that quote unquote funnel or that customer journey that you have to be able to [00:19:20] measure.
Chris Bontempo: Um, and you have to be able to show things like. [00:19:25] A customer interaction came in, or we had a bunch [00:19:30] of activity around an account that we can attribute to marketing, and then it turned [00:19:35] into a lead, whether it was through direct conversion or through, you know, some, [00:19:40] some, some other conversion mechanism that you're measuring and then that yielded into a [00:19:45] win.
Chris Bontempo: Ultimately, I, I'll be honest, here, here at Jonson Controls, we, [00:19:50] we still track and measure marketing on direct. Contribution, direct [00:19:55] conversion of a lead to an opportunity and the yield of that opportunity to a win. [00:20:00] Um, and you know, for us it's pretty [00:20:05] straightforward when we do that. Um, and that can drive a good [00:20:10] conversation with my CFO. Um, at the same time, [00:20:15] I, I, I need to be able to invest in the things that don't show [00:20:20] measurable direct attribution.
Chris Bontempo: I need to
Jon Miller: the
Chris Bontempo: have, I need the, but I think a [00:20:25] lot of that to me comes down to confidence and belief. Like I know what the right [00:20:30] thing to do as a marketer is, and I think I'm lucky [00:20:35] and I've got business partners on the other side in the, the presidents of [00:20:40] each of our regions and my CFO who understand there is such a thing as a full [00:20:45] funnel.
Chris Bontempo: There is such a thing as, you know, top of funnel activities. [00:20:50] You know, that, that you have to invest in.
Jon Miller: Yep.
Chris Bontempo: I [00:20:55] think for them, if we're not delivering a, an outcome at the end, [00:21:00] you know, then it's a much tougher conversation.
Jon Miller: Sure pipe [00:21:05] pipeline is permission, is the way I've heard it described. You know, if you're making, if you're getting, if you're getting the [00:21:10] pipeline, then you've earned the permission to also invest in the other things that you [00:21:15] know work. Yeah.
Chris Bontempo: build the trust that hey, you actually know what you're doing and, uh, you know, [00:21:20] you're, you're investing in these things for a reason.
Jon Miller: Yep. The [00:21:25] research we did with the project also showed that like one of the top trust building things CMOs can [00:21:30] do or bring problems, uh, before anybody else surfaces them. [00:21:35] I dunno if that resonates with what you've been doing.
Chris Bontempo: Uh, yeah, just a little bit. Uh, [00:21:40] so let me talk about this. This is super interesting from a Jonson Controls perspective, and, [00:21:45] um, I think in any role you take on, you wanna make sure you're, you're always [00:21:50] learning. And so the thing that I'm learning and I have learned over the last [00:21:55] year, uh, and, and. We're asking our Jonson [00:22:00] controls marketing team to be is problem solvers.
Chris Bontempo: Okay. I, I've, I'm learning [00:22:05] problem solving. Re maybe you could say relearning it, but we have a, our new [00:22:10] CEO came in, uh, last year. Uh, Yokum [00:22:15] Vimanas, uh, and he came in from Danaher. And if you know, Danaher Danaher's, the Danaher Business [00:22:20] System built on, you know, kind of the lean, lean principles, uh, and lean really [00:22:25] should be, not lean, but learn.
Chris Bontempo: Okay? So we're, we're learning the, the, [00:22:30] at the heart of lean is problem solving. And so [00:22:35] we, we call it. Living the bowler life. So we have a set of [00:22:40] metrics that we manage to, and we look every, I mean, I, I'm a scoreboard watcher, [00:22:45] so I look every day, but like we look every month as a team by business unit and by [00:22:50] region at our bowler, and we see how we're performing.
Chris Bontempo: And you, yeah, of [00:22:55] course you want those cells to be green, uh, and you need to, [00:23:00] but. There's always gonna be red cells, so you need to chase the reds. And by [00:23:05] chasing the reds, we mean if you've got a red cell two months in a row, you're [00:23:10] gonna go do a formal problem solving session with a problem solving [00:23:15] tool.
Chris Bontempo: Where we use ly, you know, we get the right data, [00:23:20] we slice and dice it a million ways we. Uh, do [00:23:25] Paretos to find the concentration of the problem within that, and then that then we build an [00:23:30] action plan. And countermeasures against those problems is a very structured approach to problem [00:23:35] solving. And my goal is for our team to be the best marketing problem solvers in [00:23:40] our industry using these approaches.
Chris Bontempo: Um, and I look, [00:23:45] you don't have many marketers talk about lean. It's not generally part of [00:23:50] our lexicon. Um, but it does work and I [00:23:55] have learned more in the last year on like how to be a, a good problem [00:24:00] solver than I ever could have imagined. And, and it is taking hold within the [00:24:05] team as part of our, our culture.
Jon Miller: That feels like a pretty good segway segue to the [00:24:10] next set of stuff I want to talk about, you know, which is kind of learning in the age of [00:24:15] AI and, and you know, how CMOs are adapting to all [00:24:20] this change, uh, in the AI first world. I, where I want to [00:24:25] start is, you know, again, you, you went from 110 year old company to 140 year old [00:24:30] company, you know, what have you learned about?
Jon Miller: Bringing AI [00:24:35] first change into enterprises like that and how to actually make it stick.
Chris Bontempo: [00:24:40] I, I would say we're still learning. We're still learning,
Jon Miller: Everybody's still learning. Yeah.
Chris Bontempo: still [00:24:45] trying to make it stick. And I, I think market, no matter what company you're [00:24:50] at, marketing is one of those functions where. [00:24:55] AI is, we're we're among the first to really be [00:25:00] impacted by and embracing AI across our workflow.
Jon Miller: [00:25:05] Sure.
Chris Bontempo: And, so the, the pace of change, I, I [00:25:10] know it's a cliche, right?
Chris Bontempo: The pace of change is, is huge, but I think in marketing [00:25:15] especially the pace of change driven by AI is more than I'm seeing in other [00:25:20] functions. I, I know others are impacted. Um. I think the challenge at Jonson [00:25:25] Controls was it actually wasn't, there was no resistance really to AI [00:25:30] tools. I think when, when you get into 140 year old [00:25:35] industrial technology company, Jonson Controls, [00:25:40] we, there's a lot of old ways of doing [00:25:45] things that. The really smart people who you've got on the [00:25:50] teams are always questioning why we do things like this and couldn't we do things in a better [00:25:55] way? And they're waiting for permission to do things in a different way. And I think [00:26:00] AI gives you that permission. It's this, this rising [00:26:05] wave, an incredible amount of innovation that if you latch onto it [00:26:10] and harness it, you can do those things that you've said for 10, 15 years.
Chris Bontempo: Why? Why aren't [00:26:15] we doing this differently? You need a certain kind of person who's a kind of a builder, a [00:26:20] problem solver at heart to do that. I think these kind of engineering focused [00:26:25] companies like. Jonson Controls IBM are like that. Um, and so we had [00:26:30] no real resistance to, to the application of ai. I think [00:26:35] what we didn't know was really how, like, which use cases to start with [00:26:40] and you know, where, where who could help us.
Chris Bontempo: There's a lot of [00:26:45] snake oil sales people out there. Um, and so, you [00:26:50] know, we had to just pick a few that were really important to us that. There was [00:26:55] some energy behind out in the market, so you knew there were gonna be multiple solutions to them [00:27:00] and then you had to go just test, test things out, [00:27:05] um, and find a, a solution that would work for us.
Chris Bontempo: Uh, the [00:27:10] other part of it is 140 year old industrial tech company. [00:27:15] Just look at our financials and companies [00:27:20] like ours. We're not, let, let me just say this. We're not overstaffed, [00:27:25] okay? We're not over-resourced for anything. [00:27:30] And so, you know, we're always looking for smarter, better, more efficient [00:27:35] ways to do things with less, because we don't have the luxury [00:27:40] of.
Chris Bontempo: We're not a software company with 95% gross margins. Like that's just not our [00:27:45] world. And so ai, when you say AI is gonna be a [00:27:50] force multiplier for you, and you're sitting there, you know, [00:27:55] just trying to get your job done and you're overworked and you're just, you're [00:28:00] trying to get a lot done and you don't.
Chris Bontempo: Have enough hours in the day. AI to you looks [00:28:05] fantastic. Right? And so I got a, I think for companies like ours, [00:28:10] AI looks really good for a lot of stuff that, uh, will help people. And [00:28:15] I, I don't have people who are worried about losing their jobs. They're, they were worried about [00:28:20] getting everything done, the demands of the job.
Jon Miller: I think plus one to that the, [00:28:25] you know, I, what I'd just love to understand is how do you then manage that so that [00:28:30] it's, you're giving people those powers without it [00:28:35] becoming chaos? Like what? Like what are you, what are you actually doing around. [00:28:40] Governance, budgeting, training. Like how? Like making this [00:28:45] actually work in a real organization.
Chris Bontempo: Yeah, so, so. [00:28:50] One thing that these companies like Jonson Controls and, and IBM as [00:28:55] well and, and many others who've been around for a while, we usually don't lack in [00:29:00] governance.
Jon Miller: Okay.
Chris Bontempo: So, so there's enough governance and as soon as AI [00:29:05] hit, uh, you know, one of the. First things that all all companies [00:29:10] of this size did was establish a AI governance committee. Okay. So, so there's [00:29:15] enough governance in guardrails around things. Um, and I think more, more companies [00:29:20] in that space had to loosen up the governance a little bit
Jon Miller: [00:29:25] Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Bontempo: because we started with like, Hey, this could be let, let's, we can always [00:29:30] loosen it up, but it's really hard to.
Chris Bontempo: Put the genie back in the bottle. Right. So, [00:29:35] um, that, that was, that was first.
Chris Bontempo: I think the chaos comment is [00:29:40] interesting. I think as leaders we, as we're deploying and testing [00:29:45] out testing and then deploying new tech, you have to accept a little bit of chaos. I think that's where [00:29:50] these companies like Jonson Controls, IBM.
Chris Bontempo: Others [00:29:55] maybe could be more accepting of a little bit of chaos in the beginning. And so I think [00:30:00] that that was more of the culture shift that I had to help [00:30:05] instill with my team here was, Hey, it's gonna be a little chaotic as we test out [00:30:10] these different tools. And we put some of them into some pilot [00:30:15] workflows to see what would happen and whether we get the benefit of it.
Chris Bontempo: And by the way, we're, [00:30:20] if we're successful a hundred percent of the time. We're not taking enough [00:30:25] chances, and I think people [00:30:30] aren't used to hearing that.
Jon Miller: yeah, I mean I, that's exactly what I tell my team when we set goals [00:30:35] for the quarter, you know, generally speaking. So it makes a ton of, makes a ton of sense. [00:30:40] Um, I've also seen companies, so you say you got your governance down, which is great, but [00:30:45] I've also seen companies struggle with, you know, now I have 30 marketers each with their own [00:30:50] prompts or their own context files, you know, or their own.[00:30:55]
Jon Miller: You know, whatever. And it just, you now have four different tools that have context [00:31:00] fragmenting in different places. Um, again, nobody solved this, but [00:31:05] is, are you doing anything to try to again, tame that [00:31:10] chaos?
Chris Bontempo: we. Yeah, we're trying to find the balance between the right [00:31:15] level of experimentation within the freight, you know, the tools that we've got, [00:31:20] uh, and then bringing in and, and go and then managing everybody [00:31:25] across them. I think we're kind of on the, for [00:31:30] our use cases and pilots that we started two years ago when I first came in, I think we're [00:31:35] at a more established place now.
Chris Bontempo: We're. We have a common language. We've settled [00:31:40] in on a couple of tool, you know, one tool for each use case, or you know, a [00:31:45] workflow. That's where we've integrated things, and so you don't really have too much [00:31:50] chaos there. I think it's when you're kicking off a new use case and you're trying to find the right.[00:31:55]
Chris Bontempo: Tool, uh, or the right capability and put it into a process [00:32:00] or a workflow, and you're taking those shots down the field and experimenting that the chaos [00:32:05] happens and we just kind of accept it. Um, but I think at some point, as soon as [00:32:10] you have to scale beyond one or two teams, that's when you need to force the [00:32:15] conversation across the teams and frankly, just make some calls on what we're gonna do.[00:32:20]
Chris Bontempo: And you know what we're not gonna do. Like at some point it's not, it's not okay to [00:32:25] have two tools for something. And you know, you, you'll always have a few [00:32:30] unhappy people who will say, well, I, I, I really, I built this out on that other tool, but [00:32:35] that's not the direction we're going. I think people are pretty [00:32:40] accepting of that with, you know, it just because they, they know.
Chris Bontempo: If [00:32:45] they trust the, it's a cliche, but trust the process. They trust the process that we [00:32:50] vetted everything and we were act. Everybody's acting with best intent to get them the [00:32:55] right, you know, the get, get the right outcome through the process, using [00:33:00] the right tech to get there.
Jon Miller: It's interesting that, you know, you mentioned [00:33:05] tools as often as you are, right? I mean, last you and I, I think first spoke about a year ago, [00:33:10] you know, and because you kind of shared some of your frustration with legacy marketing [00:33:15] platforms, um, how, how, you know, as you're [00:33:20] Experimenting and reshaping the model.
Jon Miller: Like how do you sort of think about when it's time to kind of go find [00:33:25] something new versus, you know, no, let's kind of see what we can do with [00:33:30] the, the tools that we have.
Chris Bontempo: Well, Jon, I'm still frustrated with legacy [00:33:35] platforms. Uh, that has not, that has not changed. Um, [00:33:40] it's a, it's a fair question. I mean, I, I think I. [00:33:45] We have been much more open to new [00:33:50] tools and platforms over the last couple of years maybe than we historically have [00:33:55] been. Um, I think we, we've [00:34:00] kind of settled in on a little bit of a process where we try to quickly figure out what we've [00:34:05] got already in the platforms or tools that we have. And [00:34:10] Then I'm kind of getting away from bringing in new platforms and I'm more just bringing in [00:34:15] different tools that we can use. And then there's an agentic framework now that we're [00:34:20] using, you know, with different, I'll say, you know, different agent [00:34:25] platforms that we can use to kind of string the workflow together.
Chris Bontempo: And I, for [00:34:30] us, that that's working right now. Um, I think agentic like the real rise of [00:34:35] agentic and the ability to. Have true agents [00:34:40] that do work for, you know, with you is I think that's been a pretty [00:34:45] significant game changer for us. Um, I think [00:34:50] it's gotten us away from the tool and more into the [00:34:55] work it itself and how it needs to get done, and like the collaboration [00:35:00] between the person and the agent to get something done and then letting the agent kind of figure [00:35:05] out how to.
Chris Bontempo: Which tools to invoke and which, you know, I'll, I'll get [00:35:10] out over my technical skis here, but, you know, the agent's doing a lot of the work [00:35:15] now to figure out what to bring in to get the thing, to get the [00:35:20] job done.
Jon Miller: And that's something that you've like. That sounds pretty sophisticated [00:35:25] actually, in terms of putting some of that process and ag workflow into [00:35:30] place. Um, is that, is that something that is working? I mean, it sounds like it's [00:35:35] working, but like what Can you share?
Chris Bontempo: It, it, it's, you know, early days. Early days. [00:35:40] It is, it is working. With a couple of caveats. It's [00:35:45] working when we dive into it and when we really start with a process that we wanna figure out [00:35:50] and then start mapping out, like, you gotta be a process [00:35:55] engineer now, and you, you gotta map out, you know what? [00:36:00] Who's gonna do what to whom along that whole process, and whether it's an agent, what [00:36:05] input needs and, and much smarter people than I am on the team are working through this and figure and [00:36:10] figuring it out.
Chris Bontempo: Um, I'm more, uh, I think the team [00:36:15] is terrified of the emails that I send when it's. You know, 11 o'clock at night and I've just [00:36:20] been playing with something or seen something and then gone into an agent studio to [00:36:25] try to recreate it and like, Hey, could we do something like this? Or, Hey, did this looks [00:36:30] really cool, these people seem to be getting a good outcome.
Chris Bontempo: Can we try this? [00:36:35] Uh, and then, you know, our, I, I had, I brought in a head of, uh, marketing, [00:36:40] AI engineering, and he's. Leading a team of [00:36:45] much, uh, really much smarter people than myself to kind of figure out [00:36:50] the, how to build what we need. So we're, we're early, but, uh, but we are, we've made a [00:36:55] ton of progress.
Jon Miller: I mean, it sounds like you have, and I think, you know, I, I will say I've definitely [00:37:00] heard that bringing in kind of that lead of marketing AI has [00:37:05] been a, a good move for a lot of other CMOs as well.
Chris Bontempo: Yeah. The real Jon, the real, the real [00:37:10] magic happens when. You get the marketer, field marketer, [00:37:15] product marketer, content marketer, together with, you know, kind of the marketing ai engineering [00:37:20] lead or somebody on that team with the people who are out every day talking [00:37:25] to customers and working in the field.
Chris Bontempo: So our, our sellers and our service [00:37:30] people. And when the beauty of doing, being able to do this kind of rapid prototyping [00:37:35] with. You know, using agentic, but with the right people who know how to build it. If you get [00:37:40] those people together and try storm some things, again, this [00:37:45] is part of our lean, you know, we, it's part for us, it's part of the Johnson [00:37:50] Controls business system that we we're building where you, you bring all those people together [00:37:55] to problem solve something and, you know, using the, you know, the[00:38:00]
Chris Bontempo: aI and digital tech to help figure it out. Before you wouldn't have been [00:38:05] able to do that, right? Like we just, it wasn't part of how we thought about things and it would've been [00:38:10] so hard to do. And now with the tools and the process, it's a lot, lot [00:38:15] easier and gets you better outcomes when you bring in those people in the field.
Jon Miller: Well listen, we are nearing [00:38:20] the end of our time, although this has been fascinating. We, we like to finish with letting, [00:38:25] um. Folks, share gratitude, uh, for [00:38:30] mentors who helped you get to where you are, people who kind of helped you along the way. [00:38:35] So any any shout outs?
Chris Bontempo: Yeah, a couple couple of shout outs. [00:38:40] Um, for me, men, you know, mentors, there's some obvious ones. Uh, I was lucky enough to do [00:38:45] a shift as the executive assistant to Jon Ada, who was a legendary, had [00:38:50] A-C-M-O-C-C-O at at IBM and, and while I was a terrible executive assistant, [00:38:55] I mean, absolutely one of the worst.
Chris Bontempo: Ever lived? Uh, I learned a ton. I was [00:39:00] lucky to learn from Jon and, and one of the things I learned is you have to have this [00:39:05] ability as an executive to just move from. In 30 minute blocks and [00:39:10] show up, uh, with a completely blank slate no matter what happened in the [00:39:15] previous meeting. And just jump in, help problem solve something, you know, with [00:39:20] a, with a team.
Chris Bontempo: And then wipe the memory clean after 30 minutes and go into the next [00:39:25] one, and the next one and the next one. So Jon, uh, Jon is definitely a, a big [00:39:30] mentor for me. Um, the other one I would, uh. Mention [00:39:35] in in that group. And then I've got one other group of people is, um, [00:39:40] uh, Jonathan Ek, who is now currently the CMO and head of communications [00:39:45] at at IBM Jonathan.
Chris Bontempo: Really supported me actually as I was pursuing the Jonson [00:39:50] Controls job. And I learned a lot from Jonathan, both at IBM and more afterwards, actually, as I [00:39:55] now have a little more empathy for what Jonathan was going through as, uh, you know, with that [00:40:00] seat at the table that I never quite understood until I got my seat at the table at Jonson Controls.[00:40:05]
Chris Bontempo: Um, but the, you know, Jon, the, the. The people I've [00:40:10] learned the most from are actually the people that I work with on a day-to-day basis. I mean, I, I'm not gonna [00:40:15] name everybody, but, um, you know, when you're out working through a problem [00:40:20] with, uh, at IBM parlance, you're band eight, band nine, [00:40:25] band 10, relatively junior individual contributor, and they bring these perspectives that [00:40:30] you don't have 'cause you're old and you know, you've been around for a while and you don't know the new [00:40:35] ways of doing things.
Chris Bontempo: Um. Now at Jonson Controls, we've got a whole group, a a, a [00:40:40] whole fresh group of people for me to learn from. Um, I, I, I [00:40:45] think those people don't understand how much, you know, people like us learn from them in the [00:40:50] everyday interactions that we have. And so, you know, they don't realize they're doing [00:40:55] reverse mentorship with us, but they are.
Chris Bontempo: And, uh, if we're smart enough to pay [00:41:00] attention, we're gonna learn a lot from them. So I just hope I, I hope I am smart enough to, to be paying [00:41:05] attention to them and, and, uh, and learning and applying it to make, uh, make things [00:41:10] better.
Jon Miller: Well, you know, at the, at the top of the podcast you said that your superpower was maybe [00:41:15] falling into things, but from what I've heard on on the podcast, I actually think [00:41:20] your superpower is that you're always learning. Uh, and, and you know, from, [00:41:25] from everything you're doing. And, um, I think that's probably, uh, a perfect [00:41:30] lesson for everybody, every strategic CMO to be taking away.
Jon Miller: So, uh, [00:41:35] Chris Bontempo, thank you so much for joining us today.
Chris Bontempo: Hey Jon. Thanks for having me. It was a real [00:41:40] pleasure being here.
Thanks for listening to the B2B CMO podcast. Head on [00:41:45] over to b2b CMO project.com for more episodes, plus the latest [00:41:50] research and framework CMOs need, not just to survive but actually [00:41:55] thrive as AI in the new playbook reshape how we Go-To-Market. And if this episode sparks something [00:42:00] for you, please follow the show.
Leave a rating and share it with a marketing leader who could [00:42:05] use a little inspiration. Special thanks to our wonderful partners. One Mind, two [00:42:10] x check Demandbase G two Gold Cast LinkedIn, [00:42:15] fave, sendo, and Webflow for making this podcast possible. [00:42:20] Until next time, be safe out [00:42:25] there.