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Each week, Amanda Campbell interviews amazing people, who will share their inspiring stories of resilience. Amanda dives deep into 40-minute DNM’s with guests, exploring their stories of how they have overcome adversity in their lives professionally and personally.
00:00:00:17 - 00:00:32:23
Unknown
Welcome to the Bend Like Bamboo Podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Campbell, kinesiology resilience coach and author who knows what it feels like when your body betrays you or burnout nearly breaks you. This podcast is for those healing from chronic conditions and autoimmune disease and also for leaders navigating burnout and overwhelm. You're about to hear real stories of transformation, the messy middle, the breakthrough moments, the science and practical tools that actually work.
00:00:33:00 - 00:01:07:01
Unknown
Because resilience isn't about being unbreakable. It's about learning to bend without breaking. Let's dive in. I am so excited to introduce today's guest, Samantha Cooper. And this conversation is particularly special to me because Sam, fundamentally changed how I work with my clients at Bend Like Bamboo. Samantha Cooper works with experienced service providers who are offering high end programs, formalizing structured offers and trying to grow beyond session based work.
00:01:07:03 - 00:01:33:22
Unknown
And when they put those higher value offers into the market and their response is not immediate, most start second guessing. They adjust pricing. They rebuild pages and features and take advice from people who aren't actually buying. Samantha helps them recognize where real demand is already showing up, even if it's at a different price point or from a slightly different audience than they had expected.
00:01:33:24 - 00:01:59:01
Unknown
She anchors founders back to the clients who are saying yes and guides them to sell first, learn through delivery and build from real evidence rather than just outside opinion. She believes resilience in business is staying steady when the response is quiet and allowing real buying behavior, not commentary, to guide the next move. Samantha Cooper Welcome to the Bend Like Bamboo Podcast.
00:01:59:06 - 00:02:08:02
Unknown
I am so glad that you are here.
00:02:08:04 - 00:02:49:18
Unknown
Samantha Cooper, welcome to the podcast. Hi, Amanda. Thank you for having me today. It's great to be here with you. Oh, it's so lovely to be here with you, too. I'm really excited to have this conversation today. So let's dive straight. And I want to talk about your story because it's always nice to know your background. And I think it's quite fascinating and quite different from the typical business coach story because you came to this work through real commercial environments, property development, commercial commercial services, strategy, led organizations, contexts where long sales cycles, high value decisions and clear positioning were non-negotiable.
00:02:49:20 - 00:03:27:10
Unknown
Can you take us back to those early environments? What did working in Property in Development teach you about high value and how it gets realized or lost? Okay, so I've worked in property development for a couple of decades, and those environments taught me that value comes through the creation of making tangible the intangible because with property development, what people are buying is doesn't exist yet.
00:03:27:12 - 00:04:04:12
Unknown
So basically what it involves is create getting the right messaging, creating the right visual elements so that everything communicates together cohesively so people can understand what they're buying. Yes. With that comes very strong planning. It takes quite a lot of time. And one of the cool things that begins in that planning process, you know, you've got your product, but you've also got your customer.
00:04:04:13 - 00:04:37:13
Unknown
And that, for me, begins with every journey, with everything that people are going to experience on the path to purchase. Because with property, it's a very long cycle time. Sometimes it can be years. People are making probably one of the biggest decisions in their life. Property isn't something you can back out of quickly. So it's often something that without any cost implication.
00:04:37:15 - 00:05:14:23
Unknown
So it's something that's quite takes quite a lot of different touchpoints through, say, marketing and communications efforts to get somebody on that journey. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. And then so you took all of those beautiful learnings in property and then you were inspired to help experienced practitioners. Tell me about how that transition happened. Yeah, so I worked as a strategy manager for Chamber of Commerce.
00:05:15:00 - 00:05:45:03
Unknown
And in that it was all service providers. And what I realized was that everybody was technically, you know, very experienced. But when it came to selling, it was a whole different ballgame. So, again, the stakes are high for the for the client in time and again, effort. So what they were evaluating is, is this person right for me?
00:05:45:05 - 00:06:25:11
Unknown
And then with every service provider, you're always working on time. So like widgets. And when you're working on time based, you're basically only earning based on your next client. So it makes this friction. Mm hmm. Now, being client centered. What I believe is that once in the early days, we're kind of learning, learning what's working. And then as we grow and we've had more experience with clients, what happens is our experience creates a pathway, not knowingly, maybe offer some they do know.
00:06:25:13 - 00:07:04:18
Unknown
But what happens over time is we're still charging on those on the unit, on the session, on the hour. And what that does is it it makes it very hard to sell the experience in that way. So that's kind of what got me on this path today. And you know what I sort of concentrate on at Night HQ, It's really about helping experienced service professionals, providers, founders capture the intangible, so what clients can't see, and then communicating that in a way that people can buy it.
00:07:04:19 - 00:07:36:10
Unknown
So it's basically what I do. Well, it's game changing. Like, you know, I've worked with you thankfully, and it just revolutionized my business. The Voice, how I spoke about it, which, you know, happened. You know, we made those changes on the website, also social media and even just how I qualify fire my clients into the right programs. Because, you know, as a physiologist, I learned, you know, it all start in session by session.
00:07:36:12 - 00:08:04:04
Unknown
And, you know, that's what you're taught. And and that's an important experience to to understand how to help people in your area of expertise. But as you evolve as a practitioner and as a business and it's not just about my expertise, for example, as a kinesiology, but also some coaching now and my personal and professional experience in business and also in my own health challenges.
00:08:04:06 - 00:08:33:10
Unknown
I realized that, yeah, a program made more sense because it supports the client along their journey. There's a clear clarification on expectations and also what they're going to get out of the healing or the transformation. And there's more support and steps around, whether that's a few sessions, solving a problem, alleviating a symptom, building trust, or whether it's going to be a longer term, long term journey of a deeper transformation.
00:08:33:12 - 00:09:01:09
Unknown
And you introduce that whole concept to me and it made so much sense, but I couldn't believe that I wasn't doing it already. Why did we not do it already? Like, how how are we not doing this? It's so obvious and it makes so much sense. But we're not taught this, you know? Really, I guess. I guess. I mean, for me, listening to what you're saying here is is for you on your journey.
00:09:01:13 - 00:09:27:02
Unknown
Mm hmm. Was there a time where you realized that you were creating these these experiences that were making them beyond session by session? You know, I think that's the the first thing you've got to think about as a service provider. Like you'll hit a point where you sort of start thinking, I know I can do more. I know I can create more change.
00:09:27:04 - 00:09:53:21
Unknown
But then there's also a commercial friction because you're running a business. Yeah. So you've got to, you know, you've got to keep working on getting the clients through the door because that clients, you have no business. So yeah, so there's always this tension. And then often as a service provider, we have this hot commitment. So we're bringing in the the right thing to do.
00:09:54:00 - 00:10:27:05
Unknown
And often when you're talking about the commitment, so the right thing to do by the client and then you're talking about the commercial commitment, it's kind of two halves of you going on there because commercially. Yeah. And, and I can't speak for everybody, but I actually think that for those people that lead with the hot, you know, you got into kinesiology because that would have been a certain motivation and it was probably not.
00:10:27:05 - 00:10:58:09
Unknown
I want to earn money. No, it was to be of service and to help people and inspire people. After what I had learned and the power of it and how transformative it is. So it's to be of service and and as a healer, it's very hard to integrate that into also business owner and founder and entrepreneur. It's not an easy thing, but the more that you can be abundant in your business, the more people you can actually help.
00:10:58:11 - 00:11:49:15
Unknown
So and what happens for me, I'm I believe that that what stops people from wanting to go to the charging the higher value. But if we flip it around what we can look at things for people just like you okay that are in sessions. What we could look at this is a way of going, well, okay, I know that if my client does a C with me on a continuous journey, that they're going to experience an outcome that is far greater, far more significant than doing a session by session, because session by session actually breaks the outcome, the client still gets there.
00:11:49:17 - 00:12:17:11
Unknown
But having that continuity of journey and experience with you, you create a bigger impact in that client's life. And then what happens is when you do it for one thing, you do it for another and another. Again, your experience level just keeps elevating. So you can create bigger, more transformational outcomes rather than having everything in a broken session by session.
00:12:17:13 - 00:12:42:18
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And for the clients, they're getting more support. It's not as broken. They have more clarity at the start as to how you're going to be working with them, what problems you are going to be solving for them and the transformation longer term that they will be creating. Because yeah, sometimes it is just one or two sessions and you can clear that headache.
00:12:42:20 - 00:13:06:21
Unknown
But when a client comes in and they're rebuilding after a divorce or the ending of a business or, you know, something much more transformative on a soul level and that's affecting their hormones and the glands and the nervous system, it's much more of a longer term transformation. I cannot promise that client that within one or two sessions I can help them to heal and thrive through all of that.
00:13:07:01 - 00:13:36:22
Unknown
Hence the two programs heal and thrive. But I often my clients do start with heal where it can be, you know, an initial mapping session to to you know, when meeting where to you know, I'm the practitioner meeting the client and we're building trust and rapport and and that's why, you know, the introductory offering is I guess a session I call it a mapping session, and that's where I can help a client solve a problem.
00:13:36:22 - 00:13:56:13
Unknown
They can get an understanding of kinesiology. And then from there, the work we did together was we created either a two month program or a six month program with and you taught me how to really listen to what that client was needing in their voice, in their pain points, not just what I think I can solve for them.
00:13:56:19 - 00:14:26:04
Unknown
And when you really listen to your client, you can place them in the right program if you have different programs, but you can create better transformation and healing for them because you're really listening to what they need. And I think that can that can be a mistake that a lot of practitioners and service providers in of like different types of businesses can make is we can get lost in what we think the client needs.
00:14:26:04 - 00:15:02:09
Unknown
And thankfully as a physiologist, we're taught to be very neutral and to listen more. But you taught me how to listen even more, especially through the onboarding in the sales process and the outcomes are stronger. The relationships I'm building are deeper, and the trust and the connection. And it's just so much more joyful for both me and the client because I you know, I've had clients that have seen me for a decade every single month, but, you know, placing them in these types of programs gives them more clarity.
00:15:02:09 - 00:15:30:15
Unknown
And the depth of the work just goes deeper because I'm really listening to what they need. And I think that's the point, is that, yes, these things, having the programs, they free up your time, they give you an opportunity to do higher value work, which you weren't it like, you know, the delivery and this is we're talking experience here.
00:15:30:15 - 00:16:16:10
Unknown
So if you're starting out, it will be it will be session by session. But when you've gained that experience, you will be doing high value work and you kind of want to it's like the next evolution, where do I go in my business? But what it also does is allows you to regulate. You don't have to always be on in your business because when you're doing high value, you're creating that pathway that is is absolutely for the client, but at the same time, you're creating that space for you to grow and rest and, you know, I've heard you talk about your nervous system a lot and it does not Having to be on all the
00:16:16:10 - 00:16:50:24
Unknown
time allows your nervous system to to take a breath, you know, and relax, knowing that, you know, the income through the higher value pathway is there. So it changes the way that you do business. And that doesn't eliminate services because like you've just said, you can still do the service model and a program, a high value offer, which is how I like to call it, it doesn't limit you, it just opens up a new space for you to work.
00:16:51:01 - 00:17:15:03
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, it can even move from session by session to multiple sessions that are packaged up in an offer which clarifies a period of time that you'll work together on that client. And obviously you customize that maybe, you know, financially and also probably more so time in the calendar, that client will know whether they can work with you weekly, monthly or fortnightly.
00:17:15:03 - 00:17:40:21
Unknown
And yeah, the program can be customized accordingly and then I guess this this is also about well, you know, it can go from session by session, but there's other ways that you can evolve your business, whether you've got an online course and that merges into group coaching or whether there's, you know, I have the Bend Like Bamboo Method, which I've been which has been evolving over the last 15 years.
00:17:40:23 - 00:18:10:14
Unknown
And there's many ways that I can deliver that expertise, not just with kinesiology sessions. And and that's the evolution. Evolution, too, isn't it? Yeah, it is. It's about looking at your business. So we just I will always jump back to commercial. So looking at your business model, what it's doing is it's basically giving you a and so I kind of often like to use the analogy of like real estate.
00:18:10:16 - 00:18:37:16
Unknown
So if you think of property management, that's your regular income. Okay, So that could be let sessions, you know that these people have been coming for a decade and they're going to continue to come and you've got those regulars coming in. Then when you introduce a higher value offer, it's it's like selling a property. So it's a big a lot of income coming in at a certain point in time.
00:18:37:18 - 00:19:01:22
Unknown
So you've got the lumpy income and then you've got your steady stream. So your sessions in this case could be a steady stream and your high value offer it. You sell it all the time, you'll sell it in stages for delivery purposes because a high value offer is going to, you know, you committing to a pathway with somebody.
00:19:01:24 - 00:19:30:12
Unknown
And so that will be your lumpy income stream and together, rather than just having one steady stream where your income's kept, this enables you to increase your income. And again, what that does is it provides you with respite, it provides your nervous system with an opportunity to to grow because you're earning more, you're working with higher value, higher outcome clients.
00:19:30:15 - 00:20:07:00
Unknown
So it's energizing in itself. And then you know that you've got your regulars, that you're still sharing that love with them, that you don't have to let anything go. So it really is a win win situation because you're going to be getting the grace and reward from both the steady income stream and then the lumpy income stream as well, which is you'll probably find that where you'll really excel to different levels in your expertise because you know, you're pushing to a different it's a consistent see with clients.
00:20:07:02 - 00:20:39:13
Unknown
They're showing up, they're looking for bigger things. They're all in and they're committing. So and that's kind of, I think, where the trickiest part of selling this when you've created this is that as we touched a little bit before, as you are an expert in your field, you're you can often speak at one level. And that level when you've built your offer is a different level to where the clients are.
00:20:39:17 - 00:21:08:15
Unknown
So the clients are still at entry and that's why listening to your clients and connecting with them at their level. So I always sell through a role of on the sales call, you should be doing steps and of the talking and the client should be doing 9 to 5. Yeah. So and that's how you so because you're listening to what are we listening for in that call.
00:21:08:17 - 00:21:54:04
Unknown
Well basically what you're doing is you're allowing the client to work with the client already before the client ever sees you. They already know who you are. They've done a lot of research. You're not like, literally, Hey, that's a website. O'Hare, What's your LinkedIn? And here I am. They've already done the research. So what that clients wanting to know is I know that this person because I wouldn't get on the call otherwise I know this person's got the base capability, but what they're really assessing is can I trust this person to take me where I know I want to be?
00:21:54:06 - 00:22:23:15
Unknown
So every time and this is selling high value. So this comes back to property development, the service background that I've got is that when you're selling to people on that level and they the not just committing money with you, that committing their time, they're committing their energy and they're also trusting in you to, to be able to help them to get to an outcome.
00:22:23:15 - 00:22:48:22
Unknown
You're not responsible for the outcome, but you're giving them the pathway to get there. So it's often really easy when we're an expert to either talk at a level as if they've already achieved it because we know the outcome, because we've delivered it for so many or we and so it's too technical. People can't see themselves in it.
00:22:49:03 - 00:23:23:15
Unknown
Or we talk we talk about pricing, we talk about packaging, we talk about what's involved, we talk about our experience. And then that ends up being all about the expert in the conversation and not about the client. So you never actually allow the client to to go through their own process. And what'll happen if you've done a good job is at the end of the call, they will guide you to what they want to know.
00:23:23:21 - 00:23:56:11
Unknown
They will either ask you about what's involved or they will ask you about price. They want to know because they've already been you've been present with them, so they already kind of feel at ease with you. And that's what this House calls about. It's about getting people to feel heard. There's no manipulation involved. It really it's just there's really not much selling because like I said, people are already sold on on you to get on that call with you.
00:23:56:13 - 00:24:34:17
Unknown
They're already most of the way there. So what they're wanting to know is, can this person here what I need, can this person see me and can this person can I trust this person to invest not just my money but my time, my energy, everything that comes with entering into a high value program. So when you hold the role of silence and listening and you can listen a lot much, you can listen much better when you're not thinking a lot better.
00:24:34:19 - 00:24:58:21
Unknown
So what it means is that the client can really connect with you in that space. The other thing is that we often feel when we sell that we have to talk our way through it. And like I said, if you just remember that before any client comes on the call with you, they've already done the research. They just want to connect with the human.
00:24:58:23 - 00:25:33:01
Unknown
Yeah, to be talking about you. What you've done, how you can help is not really what they're wanting from that call. So they're just wanting to know, can I trust this person to get the result that that I've seen in the marketing, that I've seen on the website, that I've heard other people deliver to them, what should we be talking about in that call to help them to understand that that call is really having some amazing anchor questions.
00:25:33:03 - 00:26:16:22
Unknown
It'll be different for each industry, but and I think I actually really learned this. I did a coaching set of case and it took me about 18 months. It was a ICF credential coaching certification and it's really hard to listen. So what happens and what we should be asking on those calls is we should just really work out what is one or two core questions that based on what the client's saying, that I can help them highlight what they really need.
00:26:16:24 - 00:26:52:09
Unknown
Yeah. So it's really about again, about bringing the client front and center. Then they're because often what they say maybe something else somebody told them which you know when you listen to anybody else, we all know that that never leads to anything other than stall. So what we want to do is really enable them to hear the core of why they're there, and that's why that you sort of allow that time.
00:26:52:11 - 00:27:27:13
Unknown
So it would just be leaning into those things like I heard you say, what is that for you to your never imposing and what happens at the end of the call is that when you've listened and really put forward the core of what they wanting from you is that they will ask you, So what is the price? So can you send me some more information of exactly what's involved?
00:27:27:15 - 00:28:01:19
Unknown
And that is when you know that that you've made that. So, okay, yeah, it's so simple, but we often get in the way by feeling like we've got to make it. We're selling us. But that's not why the client's there. Yes. Yeah. No, I totally agree. And I think for any physiologist or coaches and practitioners out there that are like, Oh, I love this idea of going from just session by session into package.
00:28:01:21 - 00:28:30:01
Unknown
And then obviously there's a whole nother, you know, offering which can be more of a higher or higher level offer, which is, you know, leveraging an encompassing all of your expertise and working with a client rather than session by session, but an experience they'll have with you. So and that you've got to, you know, sort of decipher what's right for you, where you are at on your journey, I think.
00:28:30:03 - 00:28:55:03
Unknown
And I think you could even think about going, you know, even just bundling like three sessions, six sessions or a whole year. And that can be one way of stepping from session by session. Because the good thing about just even bundling is you can, you know, if you're at that first step, you know what your diary looks like for the next, you know, four, five, six months ahead.
00:28:55:05 - 00:29:38:08
Unknown
And it helps the client to be accountable of the journey they're embarking, embarking with you to not only solve a problem, but also probably going through that deeper transformation. My question to you, Sam, is, so when we're ready to evolve in the business and and to offer high level programs, which, you know, is when we have had experience, we've been around for a while, do we then is that when we are offering in that offer not just what we would usually offer in a session, but is that when we have to think about all these other things that we have to do to be able to create it all and a high end offer.
00:29:38:10 - 00:30:21:17
Unknown
So what is what is a high end offer? What is a bundle mark? What is a session? So a session is a person's coming. It's low involvement, it's low commitment, and they're paying for that one off and they can do one offs. When I was one, I was one offs. Okay. And so this is again, from the client perspective, what does a bundle a bundle is multiple sessions sold as a package that often implies there's a discount because the service provider is paid ahead of time.
00:30:21:19 - 00:30:56:08
Unknown
And that's still it's just literally a package of sessions. So does a bundle so that the client is guaranteed that they can get into the next session. Yes. So high value offer is the service provider has the experience to know within their work that they can deliver a client outcome through a certain set of steps or a pathway.
00:30:56:10 - 00:31:29:12
Unknown
And this is why experience is critical because this can only be formed this knowledge and know how through your work over time. So it's not something that someone can give you. It's not a course, it's not copied. It's that there will be a time in your work where you will get to a point that you are able to deliver an outcome for the client that is greater and more significant than sessions or a bundle of sessions alone.
00:31:29:14 - 00:32:01:17
Unknown
Great explanation. Yeah, right. Explanation. Yeah. And that's a transformation that occurs within the business owner and the practitioner as well, isn't it. Yes. Yes. There's this is something that you will know within there'll be certain drivers so there'll be commercial drivers like tied to time. So it's exhausting. I would love to have a big holiday but my income is tied to sessions.
00:32:01:17 - 00:32:30:22
Unknown
So there'll be those personal drivers, then there'll be commercial drivers. I'm working really hard, but my income is capped and then they'll be of service drivers, of service drivers. This client is just committing session by session and I know I can get them these results, but I can do it with them coming in and out of my work.
00:32:30:24 - 00:33:00:11
Unknown
You know, when the time's convenient, we need this consistent delivery and I know I can get them that result. Now to try and sell that through a session by a session and then even a bundle of sessions, higher value offers are outcomes based. You talk about them differently. They different how you would talk about a bundle different, how you would talk about a session.
00:33:00:13 - 00:33:34:02
Unknown
The whole journey with the client is completely different. So you're now looking at we've forget about time, forget about when to book next door. You know, this is what you're buying. The whole conversation literally comes around. I know that this is where you want to be and I know how to support you to get there. And this is the journey that we're going to embark on.
00:33:34:04 - 00:34:18:04
Unknown
And this is the time that I that I know that based on experience that my clients who work with me take. So it's and you're literally then bringing in your expertise. So it's just all the administration the the all the little things that come with selling time drop offs because there's basically you're doing the larger amount at the start doing your invoicing for that and you may split it over three or four payments but all of those things now and booking time becomes an important work.
00:34:18:06 - 00:34:58:03
Unknown
What becomes the primary focus is the outcome for that, for the client. And so then you're orienting yourself and your conversations around this outcome. So everything shifts because they're buying an experience. Your expertise, as well as the modality that you specialize in. Is that right? So they're buying the outcome. What they want to know is nothing else. Can this person help me get to where I need to be?
00:34:58:05 - 00:35:27:12
Unknown
Yeah, it could be transforming careers. It could be letting go of a relationship. It could be entering into a new relationship. Depending on what your profession is, it could be transform your health. It could be transforming your fitness. It just whatever the form is, whatever the change is that they want to achieve, they want to know that this person can get me there.
00:35:27:14 - 00:35:58:10
Unknown
Yeah. So that's why that initial sales call is so critical, because if we're selling the program, they're know. So the read the points, they understand. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So so it is about pure does this person have the expertise that I need so with I would have already found that out. And do I trust this person. That's what they're assessing on that.
00:35:58:12 - 00:36:34:06
Unknown
And humans build trust through connection. Mm. Yeah. So this is why all of these things together, when they're buying session buy session now compare, they'll shop around. If they can't get in to you, they might be you might be the favorite, but you know, they can still go somewhere else with very little risk. So when you're buying high value, there's a significant amount of risk for the client.
00:36:34:08 - 00:37:09:12
Unknown
And we always kind of think about this is, you know, we're selling what we're selling what we're selling, but it's so little about what you're selling and so much about building that if you shifted your conversations. So if you're not selling right now and you've got a high value offer and you literally just forgot about selling and let go and be in the moment with that client and truly listen to what what they need and what they're looking for.
00:37:09:14 - 00:37:39:03
Unknown
Because the fact that they've shown up for you in that sales kind of conversation and they've already assessed that you can do it. So if you want to increase your conversion rates, then just be there, be present, ask the questions that are to allow the client to see the challenge in their own light. Yeah, and your sales conversion will significantly, completely increase.
00:37:39:05 - 00:38:16:12
Unknown
Yes. And you should obviously package that up in in a way that feels aligned with your, you know, years of expertise. What you're offering in that experience for the client and all of that. Yeah. Can be worked through. And you know, let's, let's talk about resilience now in context to high value work because I think what will resonate deeply with many of my listeners, you know, those in my Thrive program who are leaders, business owners, because you said resilience in high value work is staying steady when you've put something serious in the market and the response is quiet.
00:38:16:14 - 00:38:39:21
Unknown
Let's unpack that, because I think so many practitioners, when they formalize a high end offer or launch a program, experience silence initially and their immediate instinct is something is wrong. I need to change the price, I need to rebuild the page or add more features. But you're saying that silence isn't rejection. Can you explain what's actually happening during that quiet period?
00:38:40:02 - 00:39:16:01
Unknown
And why do higher commitment decisions take longer? MM Okay, so what's happening is the client all of a sudden has an opportunity to do work with you in a different way. So there's an adjustment process that they so it's, hey, this is new, but what happens is they just need that time to kind of evaluate and understand and listen for a while.
00:39:16:02 - 00:39:42:10
Unknown
So what happens is we build, we launch and we have silence. So then we go back to we need to fix it, we've got to build, we've got to do more marketing mapping, unable ads. I've got to be more visible. Let me just fix the copy on my website. And all of those changes confuse the person that's actually sitting in the silence on the outside looking in.
00:39:42:12 - 00:40:15:20
Unknown
Yes. So if we're confused and we're making it visible to the world, hmm, that's going to cause more confusion and stalling in the process. Mm hmm. I use the you know, just imagine that you're a recording artist bringing out your latest track on your and your ability. You know, you're getting a record together and you are literally you never see a recording artist.
00:40:16:00 - 00:40:39:19
Unknown
Bring out a song, sing it three times, and then quit and then go off writing and do it again. They literally sing it again and again. And again. And again. And again. And again and again. Yes, I love that analogy. And is that because people are getting used to this new way of how your explaining your work and the new way you're going to be delivering it?
00:40:39:21 - 00:41:11:08
Unknown
Yeah. So the resilience pace comes through having the trust of yourself that you've built something you know, clients need and that literally comes through. You being the expert. Okay, you have experience so you know how to to take clients through that journey. So you've just got to trust yourself and trust that silence doesn't mean it's anything's wrong with what you've put out there.
00:41:11:10 - 00:41:36:19
Unknown
It just means that you need to allow time. So we'll go back to the recording artists. You need to allow time for your audience to join you and then sing back the song with you in your own words. It literally is that you've got to allow them time to pick up the language. You've got to allow time to see themselves in that journey.
00:41:36:21 - 00:42:09:04
Unknown
MM Now, one of the traps here, which I fell into, is that and this is a big one, is that when you build something like your high value offer, you've been in building mode and you, when you're in building mode, you're in your expert zone and what happens is you can literally when you come out on the other side and you've got your offer, you're still everything's positioned in expert mode.
00:42:09:06 - 00:42:36:11
Unknown
So from the client on the outside, they can't see the entryway into your work, right, Because it's too technical, right? Yeah. So it took me about six weeks and I was talking about things in a way that only someone within my work would understand. Right? And then I had to go back and go, okay, so what's going on here?
00:42:36:11 - 00:43:01:20
Unknown
And you can feel it, you know, when something's off. And then I had to go right back. So back to the entry point. So the entry point exists of where they're at in that moment. And I was talking about where I was marketing my work in where the at having already been in the work because I'd just been so busy building it.
00:43:01:22 - 00:43:34:02
Unknown
So allow yourself some grace. And to me that would be the only time that I would actually adjust anything. When the language of your work is at the expert level or at a client who's in the work, then when you've built that high value off, you may need to sort of slightly the end to entry language so that people can I self-identifying because you to meet them where they're at with that language.
00:43:34:02 - 00:44:11:04
Unknown
Yeah and it's crazy I mean I can't even believe I fell for it like I and knowing what I know but yeah I was going, oh but it's always good to have these moments because then it enables me to I mean, in business, you know, people talk about failure basically. You fail so many times, like you could throughout a day and do things the wrong way.
00:44:11:04 - 00:44:49:02
Unknown
But it's always the gold nuggets of the gems that actually come through that. And I think the entrepreneurial journey is really about I don't think there's any value out of this thing. You just do things a certain way that you kind of can self-regulate back to. And I guess that's a bit of a resilience pace as well is self-regulating back to where you need to be and always having that trust in yourself that you know what to do.
00:44:49:04 - 00:45:19:08
Unknown
But sometimes your approach needs adjustment to get you on that path, to align you with your clients to where they're at at that entry. MM So anyone listening who is really inspired to create this and they believe they're at a point in their evolution of as a practitioner or as a business to do. So let's talk about selling before building because your approach is structure first to clarity through action.
00:45:19:08 - 00:45:50:05
Unknown
And I think that's profoundly different from how most practitioners or service providers might operate. So for my listeners who are health practitioners or even coaches or service providers, many of whom who are managing chronic health challenges themselves or navigating burnout as leaders, there's this perfectionist trap of waiting until everything is ready. They want to refine endlessly, build out every model and create the perfect client journey before they even put the offer to the market.
00:45:50:07 - 00:46:45:04
Unknown
But you advocate for selling before building. Can you explain what this actually looks like? Because this is the transition from session based offerings to, you know, a program. Okay, So because you had the experience, what means is that you can literally already know the outcome of what you're offering. So the for the client. So selling this whole building means that because of the experience that you have, you are able to identify the pathway that the client would naturally take and that enables you then to loosely put together your offer and then start the sales conversations whilst you're actually building out the full offer itself.
00:46:45:06 - 00:47:30:02
Unknown
What that does is it enables you to practice selling at high value rather than sessions. It enables you to truly listen to the client and understand what they want so that what you build at the end is in alignment with the client requirements. And that's easier to sell rather than looking at spending months building something that's going to cost you money, time and energy to only arrive at the sales point where you launch.
00:47:30:04 - 00:47:55:05
Unknown
And then, you know, you could be talking about it from a higher level in your work. You could position it at a higher level. So higher level meaning clients already in the work so that the new clients that need to come in to that work that, you know, you built for can't self-identify or can't enter into the work itself and then sales are made.
00:47:55:07 - 00:48:32:05
Unknown
Yeah. So you're literally selling while you build and selling before you build one, you're training yourself how to not talk in sessions and how to talk in outcomes with the client. And to you're also creating something that clients want in a way that they can self-identify in so that you're not hit with that expert level entry at the end and then have to adjust everything.
00:48:32:07 - 00:49:18:15
Unknown
A lot of people also tend not to focus on how they're talking about something or adjusting the offer once it's built, and that doesn't sell what they do is they go into more marketing and they go into paid advertising, which only stalls the process again. So my rule of thumb is that if you can't sell something without if you can't sell something without any advertising, then how are you going to sell it when you advertise?
00:49:18:15 - 00:49:58:14
Unknown
It is kind of this you've got to get this language right. It's different for a product because a product you can have the features and advantages and benefits of using that on the website. It's lower commitment, but when you're selling a higher value or program, the client is beyond money. So the investment of time, energy and the desire to achieve that outcome actually becomes a more significant factor in whether you sell or not.
00:49:58:16 - 00:50:26:22
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, this is great. I think the most what I'd love to close with is talking about what happens for practitioners emotionally when they make this shift, because it's not just commercial when you've built your entire identity around being the practitioner in the room, seeing every client delivering every session and you start structuring your work differently.
00:50:26:24 - 00:51:10:21
Unknown
It's an identity shift as much as a business shift, isn't it? Yeah, 100%. 100%. What it means is that you can do the work that your experience has led you to. You can create more impact. You can do work that elevates you to another level and gives clients the outcome that you know that your work delivers, and clients then seek you out so you'll attract more clients like the ones that you want to work with.
00:51:10:23 - 00:52:04:18
Unknown
Yeah, Yeah. And I think that's the most rewarding thing of all this. You know, having clients that advocate you and your business, having clients that you just literally love getting timed time with, you know, it's, it's those things and you come off cycle or in person session more energized than than when you arrived. So from an emotional point, it really brings all your expertise into the pinnacle of point of purpose, which is, you know why often people get in service providers do get into service businesses because they want to be of service.
00:52:04:20 - 00:52:36:16
Unknown
Yes. Yes. And now this is wonderful. It really does transform the experience for the client as well, because they receive more clarity, more support, because your air, your area of expertise over a period of time, as well as your qualifications, is packaged and explained in a way that aligns with their pain points and and having a clear defined pathway.
00:52:36:18 - 00:53:06:14
Unknown
It's not just your coaching or your kinesiology experience. It's also, you know, the, you know, decade or more of experience Of all the clients you've worked with over a period of time that then creates patterns and, and wisdom and understanding that you're also, you know, helping your clients with would you say that's the difference between the experience of a packaged offer rather than just session by session?
00:53:06:16 - 00:53:46:17
Unknown
Yeah. So what it is, is you're not focused on when do you want to book next? You're not just on I need to bundle this offer. You're not focused on any of that. You're literally present with the client at all times and you're working in synergy and you're, you know, you'll move in. You have that freedom and space to move in directions that, you know, you may never know or experience in a session, because the fragmentation in sessions, the client is investing more.
00:53:46:19 - 00:54:25:05
Unknown
So, you know, everybody knows when you invest big, you show up. Yeah. So what it means is that the potential to do work that has a more profound impact on an individual or group within them, it exists, is creating that space, that that moment for you to really embrace all of your experience with another individual and literally just focusing on creating a big shift that that's what this work's about.
00:54:25:05 - 00:55:00:21
Unknown
It's about, and from a selfish perspective, it literally lights you up. It literally it's it's like I said before, it's energizing. So the there's a commercial side of it which comes as a benefit, which that gives you more time. It allows you to take those holidays. It gives you greater freedom to live the way you want to live, because you're literally not that worried about session by session and is my calendar full.
00:55:00:23 - 00:55:33:24
Unknown
But from the other side of it is that you get to do your greatest work with people who are highly aligned, highly motivated, and that's just, you know, it's life changing. It's literally it's the powerhouse behind your experience is saying someone's going, I want to work with you because I know you can change my life. Yeah. And is that why you've called your business in Light HQ?
00:55:34:01 - 00:56:27:18
Unknown
Yes, it's it is. It's highest source of intelligence that sits behind all things. I believe that we're here to do greater work. And if we can just step outside the system and into our own entitlement, if that's the right words to ourselves, to really listen to who we are and to not listen to anybody else, because that's really I think one of the core things is that I believe is that we all know and especially having experience, we all know what it is that we can deliver and what we want to do.
00:56:27:20 - 00:57:00:11
Unknown
And sometimes we just need somebody to run by our side and highlight what we may not be able to say in that moment. Tell selves and the best definition of coaching. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so for me, this is about bringing in a strong commercial orientation into a service profession. So you're getting to the yin and the yang.
00:57:00:13 - 00:57:30:13
Unknown
Hmm. I want to help. I want to be of service, but I also need to thrive in my business and personally as well. So. Yeah. Yeah. And it's not just about taking holidays. It's about paying for bass. It's about making sure you're paying your super. And so many healers and practitioners are not. Yeah, it's about even just the basics of what it takes to run a business, you know, and all the expenses involved, as well as not just surviving, but thriving.
00:57:30:15 - 00:57:52:23
Unknown
Because after that, then you've got to also find that income to actually pay yourself. And so it's not Yeah, to me it's like just the, you know, helping the practitioner thrive in the same way as that what they're helping their clients do as well in their lives. It's that. YANG you know, that balance. So yeah, this is amazing.
00:57:52:23 - 00:58:23:08
Unknown
Samantha And I've loved working with you. Thank you for explaining all of this. It's not easy to explain. I hope I've got better at this. You're great at it. It's like physiology. It's not easy to explain it. It's. It's selling intangible. And I mean, that's so abstract, but you are really just packaging your experience in a way that people, you know, you can help can see.
00:58:23:10 - 00:58:44:23
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. Now you've got so many people thinking you're blowing people's circuits at the moment. I can feel them listening, going, Oh my gosh. Because as I'm going to close off now, when you can bend like bamboo with a flexible mindset, you can reimagine what can be possible for you. So thank you, Sam, for sharing your beautiful work and expertise.
00:58:44:23 - 00:59:18:03
Unknown
All of your links will be in the show notes. You can find Samantha Cooper and Enlight EQ. Sam, thank you so much. Thank you so much. I'm grateful. Thanks for listening to the Bend Like Bamboo podcast. If this conversation resonated, please share it with someone who needs to hear it. And if you're ready to go deeper, whether you're managing chronic symptoms, leading through burnout or seeking guidance and community, I'd love to welcome you into the Bend like Bamboo Family.
00:59:18:05 - 00:59:44:23
Unknown
Don't forget to subscribe and I'm here to support you wherever you are right now. Book a clarity chat with me and let's just talk about what's happening in your body, your work and your life, all the links to join our community, and also how to get in touch with our guests in the show notes. Remember, with a flexible mindset, we can adapt, transform our story, and reimagine what's possible.
00:59:45:00 - 00:59:46:08
Unknown
I'll see you next time.