EP 5 - LIVE Audience: Paradigm and Structure Member’s Meetings

We took the bold step of recording this episode before a “live audience” at our recent Paradigm and Structure Members’ Meetings. Andrew Clayton and guest host Jack Longstreth have a lively conversation with two great CFOs: Jill Kindell of Miami Valley Steel and Chris Bissinger of Essential Ingredients.

This episode is chock-full of advice from ParetoHealth Members who have seen phenomenal success in controlling their benefits, delivering tangible value to their employees, and forging a stronger company culture through their health plans.

The advice they share is specific, actionable, and a quick sampling of the value that our Members’ Meetings offer.

Learn more about ParetoHealth:
https://paretohealth.com/

Guests:
Jill Kindell CFO at Miami Valley Steel
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jill-kindell-67491417/

Chris Bissinger CFO at Essential Ingredients
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-bissinger-5208b51ba/

Guest Co-Host:
Jack Longstreth Senior Vice President of Sales at Pareto Captive Services, LLC
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jack-longstreth-75963b1b/

What is 80/20 with ParetoHealth?

Health insurance, dissected. It’s a take-no-prisoners journey into the heart of health insurance co-hosted by two of its major disruptors. The Andrews (Cavenagh and Clayton of ParetoHealth) give you fresh insights and perspectives. Join them in their conversations with guests who are also transforming an antiquated industry and reshaping the way employers select and implement healthcare benefits.

[00:00:07.930] - Andrew Clayton
Hey, everybody, Andrew Clayton, and welcome to 80/20 with ParetoHealth. We have a special episode today. We are at our Paradigm and Structure members meeting in beautiful San Diego. Having a great time, a lot of wonderful content, but more importantly, member-to-member interaction and exchange of ideas.

[00:00:28.230] - Andrew Clayton
Extending that into today's podcast, we are doing an interview with two of our CFOs, and so we really thank them for being here. First, I want to thank Jill Kindell who is CFO of Miami Valley Steel, as well as Chris Bissinger, CFO of Essential Ingredient. In addition to Jill and Chris, I want to give a special thanks to our celebrity guest host, Jack Longstreth. Jack is filling in for Mr. Cavenagh as Cavenagh is recovering from a little bit of a procedure on his shoulder. Eighty-five years wear and tear really gets to you.

[00:01:06.580] - Andrew Clayton
Thanks everybody. Looking forward to a great discussion.

[00:01:12.510] - Andrew Clayton
We are here in lovely San Diego for our Paradigm and Structure members meetings. We've really enjoyed the opportunity to get together with the members, allow them to interact in addition to advance forward our risk management, cost containment efforts. Jack, would you do the pleasure of-

[00:01:31.240] - Jack Longstreth
Yeah. Fifth day in San Diego. I'm a little tired, so please forgive me for that. But Jill and Chris, thanks-

[00:01:36.820] - Andrew Clayton
I'm sure it's all sun related.

[00:01:37.970] - Jack Longstreth
Yeah, exactly. Jill and Chris, thanks so much for joining us. I'm going to let you guys introduce yourselves, if that's okay: name, title, company, and where you're located. If you don't mind, how many years you've been in the Captive. If you can remember all that, that would be great.

[00:01:53.850] - Jill Kindell
I'm Jill Kindell from Miami Valley Steel. I'm the CFO at Miami Valley Steel. We're located in Piqua, Ohio. We're assisted to steel service center, have about 140 employees. We have been a member of the Captive since... Pat, maybe you could tell me that.

[00:02:11.060] - Pat
Probably in 2018.

[00:02:12.630] - Jill Kindell
Yeah, this is beginning of our fourth year.

[00:02:15.670] - Jack Longstreth
Sounds great. Chris?

[00:02:19.240] - Chris Bissinger
Chris Bissinger. I am CFO of Essential Ingredients. We're located in Atlanta, Georgia. We are a personal care chemical distributor. Personal care, think about most of the things that you probably used to get ready in the morning: shampoo, soaps, lotions, hand sanitizer, color cosmetics. We sell the ingredients that go into making that material. We've been in the Captive for two years now.

[00:02:42.270] - Jack Longstreth
So let's start. Jill, you came from self-funded. You were on an ASO platform with Anthem. Chris, you came from level-funded, so different financing structures. What was the thing about the Captive that made you join?

[00:02:56.450] - Jill Kindell
We used to be self-funded a long time ago, like back when that was not a thing. Probably 12 years prior to that, we were self-funded. We were bought and sold, so we had to go back to being fully-

[00:03:09.630] - Jack Longstreth
Fully-insured, yeah.

[00:03:10.260] - Jill Kindell
-fully-insured, and so we were ready to go back to self-funding.

[00:03:14.250] - Andrew Clayton
We joke and call fully-insured F-O-O-L-Y.

[00:03:22.690] - Jill Kindell
The immediate cost savings for us was in the pharmaceutical. It was crazy what we're being charged by Anthem. It was an immediate savings. Every month, we could see the huge difference in what we're paying for drugs. That was the first part.

[00:03:38.820] - Jill Kindell
Then after that, just coming to the meetings and understanding how we could change the structure, and working with our consultants who had great ideas, too, about how we could change our benefit plan and structure it the way that would benefit our employees the most and give them the best healthcare and navigate the rising healthcare costs.

[00:04:01.920] - Chris Bissinger
For us, I think it was interesting. Small private company, 85 employees, we would go through an annual renewal, and we just experienced 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, whatever that was, and we just got tired of that. It wasn't until we actually changed our consultant relationship... We decided to move away from the legacy engagements that we had in the past that we realized that there were other things that were out there. We didn't have to have this either fully-assured or level-funded program.

[00:04:39.350] - Chris Bissinger
It wasn't until we moved to the current relationship we have with our consultant that we knew that we found out there was something that was out there. For us, it was that and in addition to the wonderful cost containment strategies that came with that. It was a very eye-opening for us.

[00:04:57.360] - Andrew Clayton
You got tired of the I call the annual apology meeting.

[00:05:00.260] - Chris Bissinger
Yeah.

[00:05:00.630] - Andrew Clayton
I'm sorry it's not better. We did our best.

[00:05:03.490] - Chris Bissinger
It was so funny. They would come and they'd say, "It looks like it's going to be a 20%-30% renewal. We'll try to talk them down, we'll see what we can do." You guys have probably all experienced that. Then it became a celebration when it was 5%-15%.

[00:05:23.510] - Jill Kindell
I'll agree with Chris. We changed our consultants when we came to Pareto as well. I had told them coming upon renewal that I wanted to be self-funded. What my current consultant brought me was trash. It was crazy.

[00:05:40.900] - Jill Kindell
I just happened to be talking to Chris, and I told Chris, "I want to be self-funded because I've got an answer." "Jill." I said, "Well, give me a quote and let's move with it and let's see what we have." I feel like partnering with a consultant that you trust and you feel is heading you in the right direction is key.

[00:05:58.970] - Jill Kindell
You guys, which we adore, you're using our adopted vernacular of consultant as opposed to broker. As you know, we think there's a huge distinction between the two.

[00:06:08.050] - Jill Kindell
There is. I agree

[00:06:09.560] - Chris Bissinger
I would never use that term.

[00:06:11.510] - Jill Kindell
I agree with that.

[00:06:13.750] - Andrew Clayton
You have the CFO lens. How far out are you looking at your... Captive, yes, but health plan more importantly. How far out are you looking at your health plan from a strategy standpoint and from what's next to achieve?

[00:06:26.330] - Jill Kindell
We're always tweaking what we have and looking at the results. Again, our consultants are in with us and we're looking at claims on a quarterly basis and seeing where can we make adjustments. Part of the reason why I switched from the fully-insured thing is I hated going to my employees every year and saying, "Here's the new cards because we switched again this year, and here's this new and here's this new."

[00:06:55.130] - Jill Kindell
I feel like your employees look at you and say, "I'm losing faith in what you're doing because I have to keep switching all the time." And it's a big deal for your employees, too, because then they have to see if their providers are in the right network and everything. For us, the strategy of keeping basically the same plan and just doing tweaks to it to maybe to get them to go in the direction you want them to go, the providers you'd like them to go, get them headed in the right direction is so much more comforting, knowing that our employees are so much more engaged in our healthcare program now because they know it.

[00:07:37.400] - Jill Kindell
We're not changing it on them every year. They know what it is and they know how to navigate it. They're becoming better healthcare navigators because we're not changing on them every year.

[00:07:49.370] - Chris Bissinger
That's a great point because that was what we suffered through every year was the switch back and forth, back and forth. I'll add to that and just say we just went through an exercise. We reimagined our five-year strategic plan. For us, our health benefit expense is second to third heaviest expense for us. That was a component for us is just looking at that, and looking five years out, and thinking through what is that landscape going to look like and what can we do to manage that?

[00:08:25.280] - Chris Bissinger
Either through cost containment strategies or through the cost sharing mix between company and employee is pretty heavily weighted towards our company-funded right now. It's about a 90-10 split. How do we manage that over the next five years? This is a way for us to do that. If we can smooth out the volatility in our annual either for claims experience potentially or through the stop loss renewals, that's a way for us to even that out a little bit and get a little bit more towards what would be considered market.

[00:09:02.290] - Jack Longstreth
Obviously a huge part of this meeting is talking through cost containment and the different strategies that employers are utilizing, trying to build confidence in all the employers that, "Hey, we can do this." What are some of the things you all have done? I know Jill, maybe I am, but the primary care clinic is one thing that has worked really well for you and the different groups in the Captive. Can you talk a little bit about that?

[00:09:25.460] - Jill Kindell
Sure.

[00:09:26.100] - Jack Longstreth
Then I'll turn to Chris, anything you can think of from a cost and payment perspective that has been a lot of success for you.

[00:09:31.460] - Jill Kindell
Sure. We were trying to because we had been to the meetings and you guys had been telling us, "Really, if you can get your own clinic, then you can help drive the employees where you want them to go." I was getting ready to put in a wellness benefit. I wanted everybody to get their physicals, and all their checks, and everything. Several of our employees were talking to them about it and they're like, "We don't even have a family physician." I mean, a lot of the guys in my plant did not have a family physician.

[00:10:07.170] - Jill Kindell
We, along with our consultants said, "That's what we need to tackle first. I can't put in a wellness benefit that they can't achieve." We decided to come up with a clinic. We started the route of the partner that you have to look for a doc and went through that.

[00:10:23.680] - Jill Kindell
Then our consultants got out of the box thinking for us. We approached one of our local hospitals, and they provided the staff and the clinic for us. We got several employers. We came up with the number of bodies we were going to need. We have eight employers, Pat, that are in our group right now, and we have a full-time doctor and staff person, and we're leasing a building.

[00:10:58.580] - Jill Kindell
The employers came together and set the hours because my first shift starts at seven o'clock. On several days, the clinic hours start at 06:00 AM, so they could get there before, and then they stay open late. So we kind of control it. Those eight employers sit down every two months, look at what's going on, and set the hours, and set what's going on.

[00:11:24.090] - Jill Kindell
The hospital partnership has been key to that because we also did a contract with that hospital, and they're helping us by providing drugs at cost out of that clinic. When our employees go there, they said the best thing is that they don't have to go to the pharmacy afterwards. They leave there with their prescriptions done. They can call that day and usually get in.

[00:11:52.140] - Jill Kindell
If they need to be referred on further then, that doctor is referring them within the network. They know what our network. I mean, they know where they're supposed to be navigating them to and are helping them.

[00:12:06.640] - Jill Kindell
"Look. Here's the two places I'd like you to call. In fact, do you want me to call them for you? We can help." Even once they go for their wellness check or their sick check, they're navigating them to the place that we want them to head to.

[00:12:24.400] - Jill Kindell
Our employees feel engaged. They like it, and they have a choice. They don't have to go there. But if they go there, they pay nothing.

[00:12:34.170] - Chris Bissinger
Why haven't you done something like that for me?

[00:12:39.370] - Andrew Clayton
That's good.

[00:12:41.530] - Jack Longstreth
Just before Chris gets into it, from our perspective, for Pareto's perspective, that's outside of Pareto. We have nothing to do with that. That's fantastic because they're doing it on their own. Kudos to their consultant for putting that together. But at least they're doing something, and that's what's extremely important.

[00:12:58.510] - Andrew Clayton
It's also the philosophy and recognition that you need to break down the barriers of entry for the employees as you talk about the guidance, the counseling, the coaching that they get, setting appointments for them. All that makes it easy. Healthcare and health insurance is a foreign language to so many employees, dependents, and spouses. Your success in breaking that down is directly related to the financial success you're enjoying.

[00:13:28.260] - Jill Kindell
They really have no reason not to fulfill the wellness. I have a 90% hit rate on the wellness checks. It's crazy. Of course, I charge them $30 a week if they don't do their wellness and they know. That's one $1,500 a year.

[00:13:46.630] - Jill Kindell
They're doing it on a good, but they don't have any excuse not to. It's really easy. Call up the clinic, go in, and get my test done, finished.

[00:13:58.570] - Chris Bissinger
We're doing that for the first time in our company history this year on making sure folks get the physical, get their biometric screening, have a consultation with their physician, et cetera. It's the first time we're doing that through the Healthy Merits program.

[00:14:13.640] - Chris Bissinger
A couple of things that have worked for us so far, specifically on specialty drug management, that was a significant, significant portion of our annual claims experience. And so just through leveraging manufacturer coupons, leveraging alternative sources, those have significantly reduced our annual claims on the specialty drug side. That's been a huge win for us.

[00:14:40.880] - Chris Bissinger
We've also participated in the cancer care program. We participate in the KISx program. I'll tell you, for us, again, year two. Year one was fairly light on the KISx side, and so that's the surgical piece. I've seen a heavy, heavy movement in that in year two. For us, it's that constant drip of information.

[00:15:04.470] - Chris Bissinger
We are intentional about reminding our team monthly during what we call our all-hands meetings with the all-company gathering, just the offering that's available, just those reminders to the staff. For us to tie it all together, we use HealthJoy. I don't know if you guys participate in that as well. HealthJoy, I love that, personally. I like utilizing the wallet, so I've got all of my data in that one location.

[00:15:33.220] - Chris Bissinger
In my family, specifically, we are super users when it comes to the telemedicine option through that. For us, it's a no charge to the participant. I love the convenience of that. There's a lot of things I think... Obviously, I'm sure there's more that's out there. But for year two, for us, it's been extremely encouraging, especially on the specialty drug side and the savings that we're experiencing.

[00:15:59.300] - Andrew Clayton
HealthJoy, I tell them that's another barred entry that you're eliminating. [inaudible 00:16:03] has stifles, whatever the case may be, ear ache. You know what it is. You just need the Amoxicillin or something simple. Let's make it easy.

[00:16:11.420] - Chris Bissinger
It's great.

[00:16:12.920] - Jill Kindell
The BenefitWallet is amazing. That makes it easier for us when someone comes and says, "Hey, Jill." I said, "I've had you download," and we have a pretty good hit rate on people downloading HealthJoy. On new employees, we make them give us their phone and we do it when they are making their choices after 30 days. But that BenefitWallet is wonderful. It puts everything right there.

[00:16:40.260] - Andrew Clayton
Anything that was a misstep or wasn't the home run you expected to be, or you'd say, "I'd do over and I'd tackle this a little bit differently."

[00:16:50.500] - Jill Kindell
Well, we've done that because the first year that we joined the Captive, we weren't guiding people. We just put in all of the self-insured stuff. We were just telling everybody, "Well, you can still use your own providers that you had, and we're just self-insured now, and this is the new way to go." The good thing is that we're constantly reviewing the data and making those tweaks because that's what made us go...

[00:17:23.960] - Jill Kindell
We had a really bad year. We probably had a year where it was like a 30% increase our second year in the Captive. We said, "There's got to be something here. We've got to make a change."

[00:17:39.070] - Jill Kindell
When we made that change, and we drove the employees and talked to them about it, like you said, talking to them about, "Here's what we're doing. We can pay these dollars out in healthcare for you guys or we can pay these dollars to you in profit sharing because we're going to share in this. I promised them that we were going to share in it.

[00:18:04.230] - Jill Kindell
This past year when we achieved an over 30% savings for the year, we paid a healthcare bonus to our employees. Everybody got $1,000 bonus, everybody who was on the healthcare plan. Because I told them that, "If you do this with me, we'll share it together. It's not that we're going to put it in the coffers and we're paying it out to shareholders. That's not the way it's happening. You guys are helping, and if you realize the savings, I'm going to give it back to you."

[00:18:38.580] - Jill Kindell
And we did. We gave them $1,000 check.

[00:18:41.890] - Chris Bissinger
Money is a great motivator.

[00:18:43.610] - Jill Kindell
It is the motivator.

[00:18:51.190] - Chris Bissinger
I'll say, I think we mitigated this well on the front-end. But just the transition from... Our team was used to big carrier names: Aetna, Cigna, Humana, et cetera, just on their ID cards and the transition to just utilizing a TPA. For us, we utilize Meritain Health. It is part of the Aetna Network. But you go to a provider, and they see the card, and they see Meritain Health, and a lot of questions are generated.

[00:19:22.100] - Chris Bissinger
We mitigated that on the front-end by providing some paperwork to our team that says, "Look, you might get questions from your provider on this, hand in this." There was a little bit of discussion on the front-end there. Obviously, we're year two now, still with Meritain, and so those have subsided.

[00:19:39.910] - Chris Bissinger
Some plan design tweaks that we've made, one of the things—office surgeries, as a specific example. They were part of our co-insurance deductible package, initially. Got a lot of questions from our team on why it was approached that way, because it was a design change from our level-funded strategy. What I love about this is that we can, with our consultant, we have conversations like this fairly routinely on what's working within the plan, and we made the decision to tweak that.

[00:20:14.240] - Chris Bissinger
We said, "Okay, let's just make that part of your office co-pay." That's one of the benefits I think is fantastic. You mentioned you review your claims quarterly. We actually do it monthly. Probably a little bit more detailed than I should be doing.

[00:20:28.690] - Chris Bissinger
But that was one of the things that popped up, is just through that review. I think it's really healthy for us to walk through that and actually listen to our participants. What I love about it is I can listen and I can actually impact, I can actually affect change. It's been very welcome from our team.

[00:20:52.330] - Andrew Clayton
The theme in both your answers is thinking about it through the eyes of and advocating through the experience of the employees. We've talked about on it at a community basis, the need to stop the us versus them sentiment feeling, intended or unintended. It seems like you guys have spent a tremendous amount of cultural energy in that area.

[00:21:17.550] - Jill Kindell
We're trying to make this a benefit that is invaluable. We're really good to our employees, which it sounds like Chris's, too, is that the company pays the lion's share of this healthcare. The cost savings mode would not be to switch to a company, switch to having the employees pay more. That's not our idea of savings. The savings is, as a group, to save money.

[00:21:47.980] - Jill Kindell
We hand hold our employees. I want them to understand. I want them to know how to do it. I want to know if you had a problem, bring it to me, because I'll help you solve it. We really want our healthcare to be a benefit.

[00:22:02.140] - Jill Kindell
Like I said, when we were just hiring somebody recently, it ended up being the tipping point for us to get a new employee, and it's hard as it is to get new employees right now. If this helps, it is a marketing tool we'll use and continue to use.

[00:22:18.660] - Andrew Clayton
Jill, just remind everyone, if you would, how many employees you have enrolled on your plan?

[00:22:26.030] - Jill Kindell
We have 140 employees, and we probably have 130 of those employees enrolled in our plan, most of them, probably 60% with family coverage.

[00:22:36.790] - Andrew Clayton
Just combining the healthcare performance incentives, rewards that you did, plus the investment in the clinic where hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars of investment in their success within the health plan. Incredible. And the ROI is incalcable.

[00:22:57.950] - Jill Kindell
It is.

[00:22:58.900] - Andrew Clayton
I'm not sure if that's a word, but we're going to say.

[00:23:01.160] - Chris Bissinger
I got it.

[00:23:02.440] - Jill Kindell
Even number-wise, it's Jill because we're putting our dollars in the right things. I mean, we're putting money into it, but it's saving us more than we're putting into it.

[00:23:14.040] - Jack Longstreth
We've talked a lot about what you've done. If you look over the next 12 months, if you look over the next 36 months, what are some things that you are looking to accomplish, whether it's from cost containment, whatever?

[00:23:26.870] - Jill Kindell
Well, I filled out my cards, and I've put them in already. My card said, our biggest spend right now is diabetic supplies. I would say it's mostly the insulin that's the problem. Because we have some younger kids, which is sad, who have diabetes, and it needs to be maintained properly.

[00:23:52.910] - Jill Kindell
I really advocate that the parents need to be on this and do this. But it's also one of the most costly things that we have on there. That was my near term, is that I'd like to see if there's a better way for us to get that insulin provided at a better cost, and the supplies. I think I saw one of them, they got a pump for a baby. It was expensive, but maybe that's what was needed. It's just knowing that and knowing how to navigate that.

[00:24:27.550] - Jill Kindell
My second one was is that I appreciate the people at my clinic, and my employees love those people. My goal is to show them our appreciation more often. We invited them to our Christmas party and we gave them like what we gave all the other employees. They were like, "How did this work?" They were so appreciative, and I just said, "We need to do that more often."

[00:24:52.430] - Jill Kindell
My third thing had to do with you guys and your website. I said, "I need to talk to someone a little bit more about how to utilize that website a little better." Because when I get on there, I don't get out of it what I'm looking for when I go there. That was my third thing, was for me to be able to navigate Pareto a little bit better is through the website. That is one to do on your list.

[00:25:23.740] - Chris Bissinger
I think, for us, again, we're still fairly early into this relationship. I think for me, it is still that. I mentioned the drip of information, encouraging reminders to our participants on what's all available that's out there. Multiple programs, and I've touched on a few of these. It was interesting that specifically on the KISx program, it almost seemed...

[00:25:51.720] - Chris Bissinger
The reaction from our team when we started this, it was almost, "This is too good to be true. It can't be legitimate." It wasn't until we had that first person that went through and actually provided a testimonial of their experience that it actually started that snowball. I think, for us, as we continue this journey, is just reminding our team of what's available, the different programs that are out there.

[00:26:22.830] - Chris Bissinger
Because so far it's been working. I think it's just that engagement with our consultants, and I'm looking for them to provide me with fresh ideas. We didn't know we didn't know. And so all of these programs seem innovative, but they make sense.

[00:26:40.040] - Andrew Clayton
We recognize that you guys don't do it alone. We certainly don't do it alone. You lean heavily on your consultants for their strategy and guidance. I want to give you the opportunity to recognize them for what they do. If you wouldn't mind, Jill, sharing.

[00:26:55.390] - Jill Kindell
Yes. Our consultants were right there with the strategy. As we went through it, and we needed to make changes, and we needed to tweak things, they're always on the forefront of ideas. We'll say something crazy, and they'll maybe meet us in the middle, and come up with something. It's a nice relationship that we have with them. We talk with them often, and they help us with claims on a daily basis.

[00:27:27.940] - Jill Kindell
Our consultants are I probably don't go a week without talking to them. We have that relationship. It's hopefully a win-win for both of us.

[00:27:40.770] - Andrew Clayton
They seem happy. Just confirming, it's Chris and Pat from Phalen Insurance.

[00:27:45.920] - Jill Kindell
Yes, it is. Hopefully, it's a win-win for both of us. But they've done a marvelous job, and I feel like it's essential. We could not have done this without them.

[00:27:57.950] - Chris Bissinger
Yeah, completely agree. Could not do this without my consultant. He's so kind enough to provide me speaking notes as where I'm chatting with you guys today. That's how engaged he is with me—Brian Olsen from Sterling Seacrest Pritchard in Atlanta.

[00:28:15.870] - Chris Bissinger
What I appreciate the most is you're right, it's regular interaction. It's shepherding us through the process when it comes to annual enrollment. He's so generous with this time that he does a benefits jeopardy for our team as we go through the enrollment process, so wear Tuxedo in the session. Just top it off.

[00:28:38.790] - Andrew Clayton
Memorable on every level.

[00:28:42.030] - Chris Bissinger
Fresh ideas which are much appreciated, but just regular interaction. You're absolutely right. I mean, weekly conversations and could not do this. Could not do this. I can't emphasize enough without his assistance.

[00:28:55.560] - Jill Kindell
I have employees that don't even call me. They call Chris. He said he's talked to them before in person and said, "Here's my number." Every once in a while, Chris will say, "Hey, I've been talking to blah, blah, blah, your employee." I'm like, "Really? Still?" "Yup, I'm bringing him along, Jill. Thank you."

[00:29:18.390] - Jack Longstreth
We come out of these, we being Pareto, extremely jazzed up. I mean, these are our favorite things we do all year, and to hear these types of stories-

[00:29:28.770] - Andrew Clayton
These been the [inaudible 00:29:29] in each time together.

[00:29:30.750] - Jack Longstreth
Chris, I know this is your first one. Jill, you've been to a few of these. Can you talk a little bit about what your experience at these member meetings have been like? Where have you got the most value out of? Then maybe from Chris' perspective, what are you looking forward to getting out of this?

[00:29:47.500] - Jill Kindell
The round tables are really helpful. I feel like when you sit around and everybody just says a little bit about what they're doing, and you'll hear someone say, "Because I don't think I really would have thought of paying my employees." I know that I heard that before at one of the round tables before and kept it in the back of my mind.

[00:30:10.110] - Chris Bissinger
For me, I think that's maybe either through the round tables or just through the conversations, I'm interested in the interactions. I'm interested to see what's worked for each of you with your programs, because I love the idea of giving back. I love the idea of we're in this together with our employees. It's not that friction that you've historically experienced, us versus them.

[00:30:37.120] - Chris Bissinger
That's a good takeaway for me on maybe we could give back to our employees if we do see some savings in the program. I'm really interested in the interaction with each of you on what's worked for your teams.

[00:30:51.520] - Jill Kindell
It's nice to put a face with the people from Cancer Care, the people from Magellan, the people that we're working with. It's always nice to put a face with it. It is nice to be able to talk to those people face to face, and thank them, and tell them that things are heading in the right direction.

[00:31:08.380] - Chris Bissinger
It's not a terrible place to do that.

[00:31:14.050] - Andrew Clayton
No. You guys have given countless arguments to people about why they need to take ownership and get involved real quick. What's one or two things that you would say to somebody that's contemplating whether they make this move towards self-insurance? Captive, sure, but ownership over their plan I feel.

[00:31:35.500] - Jill Kindell
I feel like somebody said it this morning, is that I feel like you could go into a business and tell in the first 10 minutes you're there if they're a Captive company. I want it to be companies like ours who care about their employees. The first thing would be is that hopefully you care about your employees to the death that I care about my employees.

[00:31:59.260] - Jill Kindell
Because that's one of the reasons to put this in is that you're not just giving them the cookie cutter healthcare anymore. I want everybody to have great healthcare, and I want you to know how to navigate healthcare because it's not easy. It's hard. I'm a CPA, and I have a hard time navigating healthcare. It's just tough.

[00:32:23.510] - Jill Kindell
If we can give them an easy way to get through it... But I feel like you have to have a care. You have to have that in you, that you care about your employees and you want it to be a better way.

[00:32:36.430] - Chris Bissinger
We're a small private company. We subscribe to... It's kind of an evergreen philosophy. We want to be around for generations. We want to be around for 100 years, so we're looking for something that's sustainable, and this is a sustainable model to us.

[00:32:51.290] - Andrew Clayton
Jill and Chris, thank you guys so much for joining us today. We really appreciate your sharing, your openness, but more than that, your progression and commitment. From the membership, from Pareto's perspective, we applaud everything you're doing and your commitment to continuing to improve. So thank you guys so much.

[00:33:12.340] - Jill Kindell
Well, thank you as well, because we wouldn't have come up with all of these ideas without your leadership and guidance and help along the way.

[00:33:21.930] - Andrew Clayton
Thank you, guys.

[00:33:22.740] - Jack Longstreth
Thank you.

[00:33:23.950] - Andrew Clayton
Great job. Really well done. It was great.

[00:33:27.880] - Outro
Thanks for listening to today's episode of 80/20 with ParetoHealth. We love hearing from you. If you have a question or an episode suggestion, please drop us an email at [e-mail]. That's [e-mail]. Dive deeper into 80/20 by visiting us at paretohealth.com/podcast. Lastly, make sure you follow us on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, or Spotify so you don't miss an episode.