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Claire shares ideas on how to talk to your young person if you’re worried they are using drugs.
A brief online survey to give feedback and future suggestions can be found here: bit.ly/3n3bnIN
Resources suggested by Claire include:
www.amazon.co.uk/Say-Why-Drugs-Everything-About/dp/1473686229
https://play.acast.com/s/saywhytodrugs
www.alcoholandyouni.com/
www.cannabisandyou.ie/cannabis-and-you.pdf
www.talktofrank.com/
www.drugs.com
A selection of podcasts for parents, carers and young people on a range of youth mental health issues. Provided by the Northern Health and Social Care Trust in Northern Ireland, generously supported by funding from NHS Charities Together (https://nhscharitiestogether.co.uk/). Intro music by Dr Gareth Lewis.
Feedback and suggestions would be very welcome via our short online survey: https://forms.office.com/e/atRkJP5TMQ
Talking to your teen about drugs
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James Nelson: [00:00:00] Hello, and thank you for listening to this youth mental health podcast with the Northern trust. My name's James Nelson. I'm a psychiatrist in the trust and I'm very pleased to be joined today by my colleague, Claire. Hi Claire, would you like to introduce.
Claire: Hi. James yeah, thanks very much for having me today.
So I'm Claire, I'm one of the drug and alcohol workers within Northern trust cams. And really my role is to offer support to young people who may be having difficulties with their mental health, but where that's further complicated by drugs or alcohol.
James Nelson: Thanks for that, Claire and the title of our podcast today is talking to your teen about drugs.
And I suppose we're particularly thinking about parents or carers who are worried about substance use for their young people. and trying to help them think that through. Uh, so thanks again for joining today, Claire. So in [00:01:00] terms of that for parents listening or carers, listening, I wonder what would be some of the signs they should be looking at for if they were maybe concerned that substances were becoming an issue for the young person about what sort of things might they notice?
Claire: Um, yeah, well, I think that's useful to know because often parents or carers would come to yourselves and they'll say that they didn't realize that their young person was using drugs and they're often feel quite guilty or quite bad about that. But actually, whenever we look at some of the indicators that a young person might be used in drugs, some of them are quite similar to those that you would get in a usual presentation of a teenage.
But I suppose we're looking a bit more closely about mood swings. That might be a bit more than the usual ups and Dines that you would see caused by hormone hormonal changes and adolescents. You might start to notice a bit of a loss of motivation where the young person is not doing as well at school or work as they previously would have been.
Um, one of the things that you might notice that might be a bit more. I have an [00:02:00] indicator that they might be using drugs is the idea of borrowing or stealing money from friends or family. They might become a bit more secretive or that you might have even noticed that they're a bit more aggressive. Um, often young people start to pull them a bit more withdrawn and they might start avoiding being with the family.
You also might notice things such as them drop an Ida of usual sports or activities that they previously used to enjoy. Um, a lot of the time parents will also notice an unexplained or sudden change in your group of friends, or they're spent a lot more time out of the home when previously they wouldn't other things to look out for as well, might include big changes in their physical appearance.
And sometimes that comes a bite from changes in their eating habits. Or changes in their sleeping patterns might also be noticeable. And really what I would suggest they apparent is if they did notice any of these indicators or just generally, they had suspicions about a young person using drugs, then I would suggest in the first instance, just sit [00:03:00] and dine and trying to have an open and honest conversation.
I think that's kind of the best start that you can have if that you suspect your own person might be using. That's really,
James Nelson: really helpful. Claire. There's a lot in that. And not less as you say, there's quite a lot of different, uh, ways this might present for people. I'm really struck by the one you mentioned about the stealing money, borrowing money or money going missing.
Cause that would obviously prompt a parent or carer to think where's that money, money going. And just that last point you mentioned about setting dine and having a conversation. No bite it with a young person, I suppose it's possible. Some parent might be listening, thinking, well, I don't want to, I don't want to suggest it or upset my young person by saying this.
If it turns out they aren't using drugs, but it sounds like you're saying better to have the conversation, even if it turns out to not lead anywhere than to just not have the conversations. Is that fair?
Claire: Yeah. And I think even just kind of having a household really where a young person kind of feels that they can talk a bit openly about drugs, you know, [00:04:00] even if potentially they're not using them, but they're aware that they can maybe talk to their parents about somebody else using if a young person knows that those kind of honest conversations can happen in a school.
I, I really think that's the best start. That's
James Nelson: a good environment for, for things being, being shared on hopefully problems being solved. And then just thinking a little bit about mental health problems alongside substances, because you mentioned about working in the mental health service, obviously. Um, would you say there is an overlap between substance use and mental health?
Claire: Yeah. So I think, I mean, the reason for my poster, I suppose, is that there'd be quite an overlap sometimes between mental health difficulties and young people then using substances. And some of the times I would notice that young people use that almost as a way of coping or self-medicating as such. So for instance, if they were feeling anxious or lacking in confidence, then they might use drugs to kind of help them cope with that.
Other reasons why young people might present [00:05:00] with mental health difficulties is sometimes after they have been using drugs, it generally can lead them into slightly riskier situations and they might be witnessed to some things that might cause, um, the other mental health concerns. I mean, some examples of this is sometimes young people, you know, perhaps get involved in a car crash or cause a car chase, or they witnessed another young person overdosing on drugs.
And then that can start to impact their mental health later. Obviously, there's also research going into the impact that using drugs can have on our mental health at a later stage and the different types of drugs that might impact within our mental health. Um, so they're just some of the reasons why we would see an overlap at this stage.
James Nelson: Yeah. So that can be quite a complexity in there almost a two way sort of relationship between mental health use and substance use. Uh, I suppose I I'm thinking about parents who could be listening to this. Who've maybe even just find out that their young person is using [00:06:00] substances of some sort and, and maybe the question on their lips, a bay, what on earth do I do now?
So have we, any thoughts by dot Claire to help, what, what might be initial reactions for a parent in such.
Claire: Yeah, I think for every person initially, it's probably quite scary whenever they hear that. I think every family in situation is quite unique and different and there's no one right way to respond really.
I mean, everyone has their own opinions and perspective on drugs, drug use, and that kind of comes from their own experience. Some parents might have had a lot of experiences with people using drugs and maybe witnessing people struggling with addiction, or sometimes people have never really had any experiences themselves and don't know how to respond.
So we're going to carry all of that with us. Whenever we respond to our young people, a lot of the time as well, parents can blame themselves. However, I do think it's important to know that we really can't control whether or not they get exposed to drugs at some points. [00:07:00] The other thing is adolescence is a time for trying new things and taking risks.
And it's a time when we're a lot less likely to listen to our parents and more likely to listen to our PS. And I think it would also like to reassure parents at this time that not every young person who takes drugs goes on to develop problems in later life. But what I would say to be a parent, if they, they find that I, I would tell them to be aware of their initial reactions, whether that's anger, disappointment, fear, try and remain calm.
I know that that's a lot easier said than done. But any kind of discussion around this can escalate quite quickly and become very heated, particularly when you're angry. Um, this can make it a lot harder to get through to our young people. Um, drug use is such an emotionally charged issue and this can really make communication, awkward and strained.
But I really think communication is key at this time. Um, whenever you're talking to your young person, you know, be aware [00:08:00] that they do often feel alienated and as though their parents don't understand. So again, I would emphasize the staying calm, trying to listen to that. This is the best way to get honest answers are to them.
And I think that that honesty and communication is key because you'll need to try and establish their prior interviews. So for you to try and work out what they're using when they're using, and most importantly, why they're using, and if you can create like a, kind of, a bit of an open discussion around this, then you're more likely to get.
Honest answers, um, on what I would say as well as hear the white. I know that sounds really simple, but again, I can't underestimate the importance of this because if they feel that you're listening to them, they're more likely to listen to your concerns. Um, and again, then communicate your concerns to them.
What is it that you're most worried about and why are you worried about this? Because often young people see it as something that they're just experimented with. It's no big deal. They're not thinking about their future when you are so. I suppose I would just say to parents to really [00:09:00] emphasize what their concerns are that way to try and get it across.
And I mean, that's not to say that there shouldn't be repercussions or consequences for the young person, um, or their actions. And that's very much up to each parent, I suppose, to decide what they feel is appropriate. Um, but I do think that those initial conversations are really key. Particularly if the substance misuse starts to escalate, you want your young person to be able to talk to you?
James Nelson: There's a lot in there, Claire. Um, and a lot of very helpful things. I'm, I'm thinking about what you said earlier, a bite risks that, you know, a time substances can end up bringing a bite, some risks with them, uh, on, on people that someone might be interacting with so we can understand why apparently. We can understand why a parent or care could be pretty stressed about this.
And if they find out that their young person has been using substances high, they might feel like they're going to fly off the handle and get really crossed by that. So I think you're really helpfully [00:10:00] pointing out that actually, if we want to reduce the risk and we want to find out what's going on and we want to try and help bring it dying, we need to try to listen and to become.
And, um, and that's the best way actually. To support a young person to, to control this so that that's easier said than done, I think, but that's really, really helpful advice. Um, and then, uh, I'm just thinking there's some young people may just not want to talk about this. So their parents says, right, I'm worried about this.
Are you using something? And they really don't get anything back. Have we any thoughts about hydro respondent?
Claire: Yeah. I mean, I think that is probably something that parents come up against time and again, and I really think this is very hard for them. What I would say is that, you know, timing can be really important and, you know, parents carers out there will know their child best.
You don't want the avoid the issue. But you can't really force someone to talk about it when they're not ready. So I would tell them [00:11:00] to pick their moment, really, if I suppose if a young person comes home and you suspect that they're under the influence they're in, then chances are, you're your message.
Isn't going to come across very clearly. So wide. You can address it with them at that stage. You're probably not going to get engaged in a really good conversation about their substance use at that time. Other like just little things is just trying to get those conversations. One-on-one, you know, not doing it in front of friends or siblings or anything like that, too.
It might be just worth raising the issue with them and then back and off and trying to open up the discussion at another time as well. And just making sure that the young person knows that you are actually willing to have a conversation about it and, you know, not just get angry as angry as you are.
You know, you're, they're going to be able to talk to you about it. And I think the other thing is just reassuring parents and things like there that sometimes they often feel like they don't know anything when it comes to drugs. And I think [00:12:00] that scares them quite a bit, but chances are, they know more than they realize.
And other times they feel that their child or young person knows a lot more than that. Actually what our young people know is quite often rumors and mixed messages. So it's just for them, by being confident in the knowledge that they have in themselves. And then I'll like to, that they have, and their child would approach them at the right time.
James Nelson: Okay. So if a parent asks and doesn't get much of a response at the start not to get too disheartened about that, pick the time, give a little bit of space, perhaps. Yeah, we're trying to facilitate that conversation. Um, and in terms of, um, practical things, a parent can do, you know, after the initial, uh, information has come out about this and they've maybe had an initial conversation, what else could a parent do to help.
I
Claire: think there's quite a few kind of practical things I should say that parents can do that doesn't necessarily [00:13:00] mean getting straight into constantly talking about drugs or drug use. I mean, one of the biggest things I would say is kind of strengthening their protective factors. You look at the kind of main areas and a young person's life.
It's their family, their friends, their school, or work, and generally the community. So I would say, look for areas in which they're struggling with, and you might be able to support them or in this kind of whether it's school, whether it's friendship groups, self-esteem, um, really simple strategies, such as trying to encourage them to get back into your sport or of activity that they may have been into.
Before kind of, they started using drugs. Um, trying to encourage more time spent with family can do more activities, generally, anything that helps a young person feel connected to something else that's not substance misuse or possibly their friends that are using drugs or alcohol. That's one of the key things that I often see with young people that makes a difference more than coming and talking to them.
James Nelson: I think that's very interesting, Claire. I might [00:14:00] even surprise some people listening cause we, we might expect to be told, right? You need to talk about the substance misuse. You need to come up with a plan. You need to know much exactly they're taking, you need to like sort it all light. And actually you're pointing out that substance use is part of a whole broader bet of a young person's life.
And that if we build up some of the other areas and help support them, we might be tackling some of the issues that are driving them towards substances in the first place. Am I getting you right there?
Claire: Definitely. I think that's it, as I say, it kind of, most young people that would come through to ourselves often feel like they're struggling in one area of their life.
We're more, you know, it might be that they're struggling to fit in or they're struggling to keep up in school and that's impacting on their self-esteem. And I think if we can really build up in those areas, that makes a key difference for them.
James Nelson: And just to throw another question in, along with thought, Claire.
Do you think it's fair to say that often substance misuse isn't [00:15:00] just purely about substances itself. That often there are other things going on in a young person's life that are kinda nudging. Direction, like we need, we need to look past the substance misuse in a, in a way to understand that. Um,
Claire: yeah, I think that's definitely key.
And I suppose I noticed that a lot with my work within cams. I think a lot of people think that they're going to come to the service and they're going to get a lecture on drugs and alcohol. And really that's not in any way, what it's a boat. She knows. So a lot of the times we are talking about everything else that's going on in the young person's life.
And I fear that whenever we take that approach and look at it that way, often the substance use falls away or doesn't become important to them. And that kind of happens in a more natural stage rather than them actively trying to reduce their use.
James Nelson: So almost in a way, putting too much focus on the substances could even be counterproductive.
Claire: Yeah, particularly, I suppose if it's not done in the right way and the young person feels that [00:16:00] they're constantly being brooded for their, their use or, or possibly even do you know what addiction is an area in which people can feel quite shameful about it. So if a young person then starts to feel quite bad about themselves, because they're using drugs again, that's just going to impact on their self-esteem.
And a lot of the time she see them turn them back to drugs, to cope with it, or to cope with some of the things that they might have. So I think it's really important that we try and do it in as nonjudgmental way as we possibly can, because we don't know what's going on for them. A lot of, and I think
James Nelson: that really helpfully links with what you said earlier care about the parent's initial reaction, because an initial reaction might be to be very crossbite.
It might even come across as condemning and the young person might close up and say, well, if you're going to react like that, I'm done talking to you about this. And then we've missed our opportunity for a while. To keep that conversation go when there's a lot in their care. Thanks. Continuing not thinking about help and support.
Uh, [00:17:00] you were mentioning there about how a parent can respond, looking at broader areas in life. I'm just wondering where could a parent turn, if they think, look, this has got POS my capability to help, um, item adapt and, and, and I need some extra help with us. What sort of services right there? Uh, on hike, it apparent.
Getting LinkedIn with them.
Claire: Yeah. So I think one of the first protocols would often be just go into your GP and they can make onward referrals to where it might be necessary. Some of the trust-based services then would be the dam service, which is part of coms. It's the drug and alcohol, mental health service for young people.
And that's across all the trusts. Then within the community voluntary sector, there's usually different agencies within the Northern trust. Particularly we have start 360 6. They offer a one-stop shop for young people and a drop-in service where they can drop. They have a service called Daisy. And that works directly with young people, [00:18:00] aged 11 to 25, who may be struggling with their substance use within that service.
They can also offer family support and they offer support to siblings who may be struggling with, you know, an older sibling substance use to which has particularly. G and there's other services such as extern. Now they work with over at teens, but again, they're a self-referral service, so you shouldn't even need to go to the GP.
And again, they can offer family support too. There's quite a range of different community voluntary services out there. And I know within different trusts as well, that there will be different stories.
James Nelson: Okay. Yeah. So the different services out there, both within trusts and within the community voluntary sector and GPS, probably a good contact point about knowing what's there and where to, where to signpost on and referral to.
And then I suppose, Claire, uh, I'm just wondering what a bite, a situation where a young person doesn't want help at that point in time. So parents worried about a parent thinks, look, [00:19:00] we need some extra support here around substances on the young person is just flat out. Nope. Not going, not interested.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Any advice for how a parent could get tuck a lot,
Claire: one, I suppose, when a young person doesn't want or saying that they don't want to engage. Uh, the main thing I would say is that motivation was constantly changing, particularly with young people. So again, I would pick your moment to suggest it.
And it's, you know, even whenever we think about motivation ourselves, the way I kind of often put it across is that we all kind of wake up, but on when they went in and say that we're going to be really healthy that week. And for me, I know, kind of come 12 o'clock in the day, I'm talking in the bonds that are sitting in the office.
And again, that's the same as a young person, you know, they might one moment say, yeah, I'm really ready to make this change. And then their motivation might change. But that doesn't mean that they're constantly going to say no or that they don't want to get. So it's a bite kind of a sit pick your moment and trying to encourage them to go.
[00:20:00] Another thing I would say is I would try and establish why they don't want to engage. Some people have a misconceptions about what services might look like. Again, as I was saying, often, they think they're coming for a lecture on drugs. And nobody really wants to sit through that, especially not a young person who feels that they're going to be judged you by a mental health practitioner or somebody else.
So it's about making sure that, you know, what services are out there so that you can explain to the impression what it is that they'll be coming to. Other times, young people might have a fear of being reported to the place. So again, it's trying to find out exactly why they don't want to engage. And services.
I think the difficulty comes in and this is where it's most frustrating for the parents is whenever the impression doesn't see their substance misuse as a problem. And if so, again, then that's where your communication is key. Encouraging them to see where there might be improvements and their lives. If they weren't using drugs, be that [00:21:00] within their own mental health, their energy, their relationships, or.
Even finances, sometimes a good way to, to come across to young people. I would also then try and establish with them why they're using it, or are they using it for fun? Are they using it recreationally or do you feel that they're we bit more dependent in that and they're, they're using it to cope. And again, if that's the case, it's about trying to show them.
That that's why they're using it. And it's maybe gone beyond that initial recreational stage. Other times, young people don't want to attend a service because they feel that they are dependent on the substance use. And again, I think that's why it's really key to find out why they are using it. And then.
I would again, try and explain to them what the services do and how that they would support them and around this. And if they were at the end of all, this they're really don't want to go to any services. My main thing would be to ensure that you have support for yourself, whatever that might look like, whether that's family, [00:22:00] friends, or services.
And again, even if they're not willing to change, I would try and continue to adhere the boundaries that you've set for them within the family.
James Nelson: Um, there's a lot there. Um, Eric fare, so remembering that the motivation can fluctuate. So don't get too disheartened if you get an initial. No, I like what you said there, by getting knowledge a bike, the services so that you can sow some seeds and an inform your young person helpfully by what is out there, what helps available.
And I really liked what you said about support for yourself as a parent, because as we're already reflecting, this is more, can be quite stressful. Um, and invite a parent ensuring they've got support network around them as far as possible to help them manage this. Cause this is a times pretty, pretty tricky.
You mentioned the police, um, issue there that some people might have a concern. Um, goodness, if I go to somebody like Claire or somebody like Daisy, you know, 10 minutes into the appointment, if I mentioned I've used some [00:23:00] substances, they are going to be straight on the line to the police. So I wonder, do you want to just say Jonathan generally about that Claire, maybe to, to reassure people a little bit about around.
Claire: Yeah. I mean, we wouldn't, um, refer young people on to the place. Uh, if we are concerned with regards to substance misuse, or they were disclosing the us that they were using substances, really the thing behind that is we really want people to engage and change their use. And if we were reporting everybody on to the police, um, I suppose we wouldn't have too many young people come through our doors.
James Nelson: Okay. So that, that can be in some way, a reassurance for people that they don't need to have that as a concern in the, in the front of their minds. Thanks Claire. There's a, uh, a lot of, a lot of helpful information in there. You've shared with us today. And I suppose if someone's wanting to read a bit more or learn a bit more after listening to this, are there resources you'd recommend to them or websites?
You'd encourage people to take a look at.
Claire: Yeah. So one of the big websites, which a lot of people probably have heard of is the talk to Frank website. And I would [00:24:00] say that generally, from what I've seen of it, it's always really accurate up to date information. They carry a lot of information to avoid some of the slang NIMS.
Used for drugs. So if a parent hears something and they really have no idea what it is, if they type it in to talk to Frank, it'll come up. Um, that service also has a helpline, which is quite useful. Uh, another website is just www drugs.com, which just gives really factual information about. Um, if parents kind of wanted to get some resources for the young person as well, there's online resources, there's a cannabis new booklet, and there's also an alcoholic new booklet and they can be fine just an, any search engine.
And they're really self-help guides. They give really practical advice and information. They talk the own person through what's best for them at that stage, whether or not. Totally stopped and they use cotton dine helps them set goals. So it's, it's quite good for both parents on the young person to work through as well, so [00:25:00] they can be quite good resources.
And then the other thing I would say is just if they wanted a little bit more information, generally are my different types of drugs. There's quite a good. Drug podcast, state called say white drugs. And I suppose the concept behind that is it's not a pro drug podcast. It's not an anti-drug podcast. It is literally say why to them.
It is the facts about different drugs that are out there. Um, it's by a psychologist, Dr. Suzy gage, who has also written quite a good book on drugs. And again, all of the factual information that you get, and it's really kind of, it's laid out in a good format and might also be quite interesting to young people as well.
So I would recommend.
James Nelson: That's a lot there. Clarence who talked to Frank website, drugs.com, website, the cannabis, and you booklet the algo on you, booklet on the podcast. You mentioned I'm willing to start the links for, for some of those enter the text of the podcasts. So a foot can find those easily just by looking in, in the tax during the post.
Thanks Claire for that, for all that useful information [00:26:00] today, um, for talking this over with us and, uh, thank you to you also for listening, uh, to this, we'd be very interested to hear your feedback and we've embedded a short survey into the text around the podcast, just within your podcast platform. If you wanted to give us any really brief feedback or suggest any future podcast topics for our youth mental health podcast, we'd really appreciate that.
And we hope you find this podcast today. Helpful.