Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
HOA life isn’t just about bylaws and board meetings, it’s about building something real.
Welcome to Hey Neighbor, the podcast for homeowners, board members, and community leaders who want more than just rules. They want connection, clarity, and a community that actually works.
Our mission is to help you unlock the full potential of your neighborhood, whether you’re navigating conflict, leading with purpose, or just trying to figure out what those HOA fees actually cover. If you care about where you live, and who you live next to, this is your space.
Hosted by community expert Denise Haas, Hey Neighbor dives into the real stories and behind-the-scenes truths of HOA life. Each episode, we explore the issues no one talks about but everyone deals with, from neighbor disputes and boardroom drama to financial transparency and shared wins.
Whether you're new to HOA life or a seasoned board member ready for change, this is where real talk meets real solutions - with just enough laughs along the way.
Subscribe now, and let’s build better communities together.
[00:00:00] Chris Boortz: I tell people in interviews all the time, we are gonna make mistakes, but we'll be there to fix 'em. We'll be there to handle 'em. We are striving to do the best we can for your project. I've got a couple clients that we blew it, but every one of them I think will say that, Hey, they did the right thing at the end.
[00:00:16] Chris Boortz: They did the right thing.
[00:00:19] Denise Haas: I'm Denise Haas, and this is Hey Neighbor, the podcast that dives deep into the real life issues of HOA living. The good, the bad, and the downright complicated. On today's episode of Hey Neighbor. Have you ever been caught off guard by a roof leak or crumbling staircase, or better yet, something with water?
[00:00:43] Denise Haas: That happens to all of us today. We're talking all things construction with Chris Boortz, from emergency callouts to what makes or breaks a big project. We know a lot of things can go wrong there. Chris Boortz has been helping associations stay ahead of costly repairs and manage complex situations over for well over 20 years.
[00:01:05] Denise Haas: He's here today to share lessons he is learned, and maybe a few fun stories of which we've shared. A few. Welcome Chris.
[00:01:14] Chris Boortz: Well, thanks Denise. And by the way, it's, it's 29 years exactly that I've been in business doing these repairs and fixing things and chasing them and breaking them 29 years, soon to be 30.
[00:01:26] Denise Haas: So Chris and I have worked on a few projects together. We've worked on some emergencies together. We've worked on getting creative on how we're gonna solve a problem or two together. And then we've worked through some frustrations with boards who have had trouble figuring out what they really want. So I'm gonna start with Chris.
[00:01:52] Denise Haas: What's the most common thing you're called out for to HOAs?
[00:01:56] Chris Boortz: You know, as far as re as far as emergencies go, I would say 90% of what it is is water related, whether that be groundwater coming in the foundation, whether that be roof leaks, or plumbing leaks, or plumbing backups. So domestic water leaks or uh, uh, sewage backups.
[00:02:16] Denise Haas: So in those emergency water leaks, what is one thing you wish. The homeowner or the association or the board would know right away to really be helpful.
[00:02:28] Chris Boortz: It drives me nuts over the years watching HOAs and, um. You know, a plumbing leak kind of happens. It's behind the walls. It happens. You can prevent sometimes when, you know it's freezing.
[00:02:40] Chris Boortz: It's the repetitive problems that, that just kill me with, with, uh, a lot of HOAs is, you know, they have a, a specific type of leak from a roof, and it's in the same place. In the same unit, but they've got 50 of those units. And so, you know, they get a leak. We go in, it's five, 10, $15,000 to clean it up, take the mold out, do whatever's necessary.
[00:03:02] Chris Boortz: And they don't go to the root problem, or you have the same type of unit where it always freezes at a certain toilet. They don't go and become proactive. So as a business that does emergency service, I guess financially, it benefits us when they don't do that. But as a, you know, fellow owner of different properties, I just hate to see the waste of, of chasing the emergency as opposed to going after the repair.
[00:03:28] Denise Haas: Have you experienced where they keep coming, you keep returning for the same problem again and again, and you get in the room in front of the board to tell them that? And what do they say to you?
[00:03:43] Chris Boortz: Well, a, a lot of times these fixes, everyone wants an absolute guarantee that if you do this well it solve that.
[00:03:50] Chris Boortz: And a lot of times in older communities, you can't make that guarantee, but you can make a very well educated guess as to what they need to do to, you know, not put those dollars forward. You know, we always use the analogy that as a contractor, we're the pharmacist. You know, we usually work with engineers and architects and design professionals that are the doctor, so they tell us what to fix.
[00:04:13] Chris Boortz: And a lot of times, HOAs and a lot of ownership groups in general, they don't like to pay for that engineering. They go and they spend 5, 10, 15 grand on engineering and they don't, they, they haven't repaired anything yet. That collaboration and that knowing what you're gonna repair and having an agreement by somebody that's not selling you a widget per se, but somebody that's actually looking at a holistic repair is, is really crucial.
[00:04:37] Chris Boortz: In those situations,
[00:04:38] Denise Haas: do you feel like you have more success being in front of a board explaining those situations?
[00:04:45] Chris Boortz: I hope that I do, because you know, this gray beard didn't get here just by fun and joy. I know with me personally, I love solving problems. I absolutely love to get out there and figure out the, the source of the issues and how we can best and most economically fix the problem.
[00:05:04] Chris Boortz: So I think some boards can see my passion in that. In that I don't come in there and look at, Hey, what's the most profitable thing for ASR? What's the best for Chris Boortz? I look at it as if it was my mom's house, my sister's house, or something. So I think boards that get to know me personally, would see that I really do like the I I, I like the thrill of the figuring it out and fixing it.
[00:05:29] Denise Haas: That's cool. From your experience, one of the most chaotic emergencies that you've had to be out on, that you're like. What the heck is going on out here?
[00:05:41] Chris Boortz: There's one particular community that comes to mind and you know, chaos is kind of an understatement. It, it was very, very, very poorly maintained over the years.
[00:05:51] Chris Boortz: The HOA did no maintenance. It had flat roofs, and this particular place had asbestos. Which is a whole different story. It had a lot of mold and it had several hoarders. And so when my crew went in and sent me some of the pictures of these just deplorable living conditions and you know, a catch 22, it was just this.
[00:06:17] Chris Boortz: Ongoing cycle of, of bad stuff. The roofs had a leak, everything got moldy. Then there was all the rats and I mean it was bad, but yeah, it no reason to bring up the name of the neighborhood, but I think there are other ones out there that are in a similar situation.
[00:06:31] Denise Haas: Have you ever had to go in and clean out a hoarder's house?
[00:06:34] Chris Boortz: Oh, we, we have on this particular thing, I think there was like three or four out of 20 houses that got impacted by this storm.
[00:06:42] Denise Haas: Did the people get combative with you?
[00:06:45] Chris Boortz: Oh yeah. Oddly enough, some of those are the people that when you're putting things back together and you know they're the most picky,
[00:06:52] Denise Haas: it's terrible.
[00:06:53] Denise Haas: But is there an element of truth in it? There is. We know that from the industry we're in. So if boards could do one thing to avoid the 2:00 AM call, which any community manager out there would really appreciate, from your perspective, what would be the one thing.
[00:07:09] Chris Boortz: That's a tough one. There's not a one one trick answer, but be mindful of maybe not the, the pretty stuff.
[00:07:18] Chris Boortz: A lot of boards, they put an architectural code control committee and they walk around. It's maybe getting with a contractor and seeing what your potential issues are. You know, when I assess a project, I typically will look at things from a life safety standpoint, an asset protection standpoint. And then get into more of the lifestyle aesthetics, you know, the pretty stuff.
[00:07:41] Chris Boortz: But you gotta start out with, with life safety, you know? So as board members are looking at things, first of all, are there trip hazards? Are there things that might fall off? Buildings? Those are important. Secondly, you wanna look at it and say, well boy, if water gets in there, how much will it ruin over here?
[00:07:56] Chris Boortz: And you know, if ice comes here and forms in the sidewalk, what's the liability? And that's kinda a life safety or asset protection. But I think it's just being sensible to the non aesthetic and you know, working with a contractor. And I think that's one other thing. I think it's almost like it's taboo to have a relationship with a contractor.
[00:08:16] Chris Boortz: You know, we're kind of the bad guys out there. Really.
[00:08:17] Denise Haas: Why do you think that?
[00:08:19] Chris Boortz: In just the general lifespan that I've been in this business, there's always been this, everything you do get three bits. Everything. You know, a lot of, I, I'm told a lot of even documents, HOA documents require that they get three multiple, you know, several bids on certain things.
[00:08:36] Chris Boortz: But I think there's this kind of stigma out there that that's the only way you can do things. You know, you get to contractors like, okay, we got a project, we gotta get three bids. And I think that partnering with someone. You know, I'm gonna be more willing to put my time and effort into going and helping on the non-construction related consulting side of it, if you will.
[00:08:55] Chris Boortz: If I know that I'm not gonna be just taken against the guy in a truck that comes out there the next time they have a bid that's cheaper.
[00:09:02] Denise Haas: So I know that has been historically the thoughts for the industry as a whole. Do you. See that changing at all?
[00:09:12] Chris Boortz: I think people that are getting smarter about it are looking at it better in a different light.
[00:09:18] Chris Boortz: I think there's more of a team mentality and, and kind of a checks and balances through the design professionals. I've suggested in a lot of cases, instead of, you know, typically say on a big project in the past has always been HOA decides they've got an issue. They call May, maybe they call an engineer.
[00:09:35] Chris Boortz: He does a design of whatever repair that goes. They put that out to bid and they give, you know, the contractors, okay, you four contractors, three contractors, whatever, have two weeks to put a bid together. First of all, a lot of times you get that back and the board's like, well, well this is 10 times our budget, or five times our budget, or three, and they haven't gotten anywhere by going through that process.
[00:09:57] Chris Boortz: And they've got three bids, but all of them are way outside their budget. Where I've seen a lot of success is. Let's say there's, you've got siding issues, balcony issues, roof issues. You've got mis, mis, drainage, gradating, different issues. Okay? If you go out and, and put together a team in advance, and first of all, start by, by maybe designing a portion of it, a little bit of concrete work, a little bit of siding, work a little bit, roof, what have you.
[00:10:20] Chris Boortz: A small portion. You're not taking a lot of contractors times. You interview the contractors that kind of give you a price area of where they're at competitively. Then you pick your team and you move forward, and then as, as the engineer's designing things, you can price 'em as you go. You can start prioritizing via how much the budget is and be working through all those things as a team, as opposed to, okay, now we're, we're starting over.
[00:10:49] Chris Boortz: Does that make sense?
[00:10:50] Denise Haas: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and I understand that. I feel like I'm starting to see where the three bid stuff is kind of going by the wayside in that, and I don't think I've experienced this with you, but I think contractors are saying, look, our time is worth something. We're not going to continue to come back and rebid and bid and bid to not get anything.
[00:11:15] Denise Haas: But they're starting to charge for their time. To put that bid together. And so boards are starting to understand the value of time a little bit better. I don't think it's a full swing by any means, but I, I do feel like there's starting to be a turning of the tide, but I think people, a, I think the market has gotten narrower since COVID.
[00:11:36] Denise Haas: I think having people who want to work and do this type of labor has become more difficult. Just like it's difficult for us in the industry to find managers. So I think people have gotten really smart and starting to be on the contractor side, more selective of the types of jobs that they're willing to put the time into to really do the work where they feel like this is a fair shake.
[00:12:00] Denise Haas: I've got a great opportunity here.
[00:12:02] Chris Boortz: Yeah. And, and, and the reality is under the old or the kind of ongoing and old scenario, the three bids, four bids, whatever, what you're really picking is the person that probably missed something. You know, in good theory, you take the high, the take it low, you drop that off and you pick the middle in theory.
[00:12:18] Chris Boortz: But boards have a hard time with that. I think boards also have a hard time with the idea that some of these times we're talking money that they can't even fathom. You know, most people don't have a million dollars they're gonna spend, or half a million or, or whatever. And so there's paralysis that takes place.
[00:12:35] Chris Boortz: There's. Fear. There's all these things that go along, and if they can get to a point where they can be comfortable with that contractor, with that engineer, with that team, you can take that paralysis out of it. You can take that fear out of it, and you can go through and progressively get a project completed.
[00:12:51] Denise Haas: That's exactly right. That paralysis, I think is a really big thing. Because boards realize they're spending other people's money, and they have to be able to justify to them that they did all the due diligence that they possibly can.
[00:13:06] Chris Boortz: Yeah. And so they get stuck in this. Well, you know, everyone gets three bids and, and if they don't, the 95% of people that don't show up to the meetings, they then show up and talk about how they should have gotten three bids and that their uncle is an engineer and their brother's a contractor.
[00:13:22] Chris Boortz: And, and I, I understand the fear that they have, but I'll tell you, you know, it's kind of a cool story. The other day, there's a group that has gone through some. Pretty big projects and they had another re big project and it was their last one was not as successful as they wanted with the other con with a contractor.
[00:13:38] Chris Boortz: They chose to figure out who the contractor was before they even had the full scope of work, and they did their research and they narrowed it down to us and one other contractor. And what was cool to me, and you'll appreciate this as a business owner, as you know, I've got a pretty good team of people.
[00:13:54] Chris Boortz: In fact, I've got a great team of people. And what was fun about this particular interview, we got on the interview and unusually I didn't say a whole lot, which is very odd for me 'cause I like to hear myself talk. And so one of my employees said, and I know where you're sitting, because I used to be a client of ASR, he goes, I was a client for them for years and the opportunity came up.
[00:14:14] Chris Boortz: So I came to work for him. And then the other person on the call, she said, well, yeah, I was a client of ASR’s too, and I came to work for. And then I added my 3 cents worth. And, uh, we got off that call and the property manager reached out to our team and said, they canceled the other interview, which, which was cool.
[00:14:31] Chris Boortz: And I think they felt like, Hey, well that would be stupid as a business owner to ruin that type of opportunity, right? So I'm gonna go and treat 'em with, and I think we treat everyone we can with the, the utmost respect of their money and trying to get the best value for their money. Yeah, but if you don't know me, you don't know us and everything else, we're just another contractor that's out there.
[00:14:52] Chris Boortz: And there's this kind of stigma that, you know, contractors are evil doers that are, you know, out to steal your money or something. And you know, I've, I've now got, on this particular project, it's probably about a million bucks. I've saved $15,000 probably in just estimating cost off the chutes on this project, which can go back into their project,
[00:15:12] Denise Haas: which is awesome.
[00:15:14] Chris Boortz: Yeah. Which is cool.
[00:15:15] Denise Haas: That really is. So the boards have gone to all this trouble to get these bids. You're now sitting in the interview. What should boards ask before they approve your bid?
[00:15:26] Chris Boortz: First of all is understanding that if you get three bids, are they the same? Have somebody on your on their team that can really vet and make sure that apples and apples and apples they're getting okay.
[00:15:38] Chris Boortz: You know, people ask for references. Do they always check 'em? I don't know. And you know, my mom has been my best reference for years, but make sure they're qualified references and, and one of the questions I always thought was a good question in an interview is, give me a reference of a job that didn't go great.
[00:15:56] Denise Haas: I love that question. I think that's great. 'cause that speaks to then what happened.
[00:16:00] Chris Boortz: Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, I tell people in interviews all the time, we are gonna make mistakes. Absolutely. I will guarantee 100% we're gonna make mistakes, but we'll be there to fix 'em. We'll be there to handle 'em. We're not perfect, but we are striving to do the best we can for your project.
[00:16:16] Chris Boortz: You know, I've got a couple clients that we blew it, we flat blew it, but every one of them I think. We'll say that, Hey, they did the right thing at the end. They did the right thing. And everyone has learned over years that that communication is pretty important on these projects. To me, it's number one.
[00:16:35] Denise Haas: Mm-hmm. To
[00:16:36] Chris Boortz: me, communication is the one thing we can control better than anything. You know, we can't control if someone gets sick, something breaks, something happens, mistakes. But we can control how we communicate every bit of it. So when people who have all learned that that's an important thing. Ask 'em how they deal with it.
[00:16:53] Chris Boortz: What kind of reports are they getting? What true communication are you getting? You know who is gonna be there, who's the team? Is it gonna be a consistent team? I think those are all really important questions.
[00:17:03] Denise Haas: What's your favorite type of communication piece that you put out when you're on a project?
[00:17:09] Chris Boortz: Well, I'm old school and I've learned that I'm old school. What? You know, I'm gonna pick up the phone and, and fix a guide. But I think from our standpoint, we've got a series of communications that are important. We've gotten to, probably my favorite one these days is the, we do a weekly update every Friday.
[00:17:26] Chris Boortz: Here's what we did last this week. Here's what was good, bad, here's what's coming up the next week or two. That goes out by our project manager or our superintendent to every project. You know, that that's got any kind of length to it, right? It's great communication for us as a company. We all know now what's going on, on things, but you know, the other is, is more some of the individual, you know, how many people in your communities don't look at what's put on their door?
[00:17:49] Chris Boortz: They don't look what you email them. They don't look what's on their garage door, and then they tell you you didn't communicate
[00:17:56] Denise Haas: at least 10% every time.
[00:17:58] Chris Boortz: So some of that communication is literally for that protection to be able to say, oh yeah, we did do this. We put a flyer out, we did that. We get the feedback from the community, what's important to them.
[00:18:09] Chris Boortz: You know, the property manager, do we want to have the association manager? Do they in the middle of it or do you want us to do it? My personal is the more communication we do directly, the less a manager has to get caught in the crossfire of something that we don't, can't follow up or didn't follow up on.
[00:18:26] Chris Boortz: It comes directly back to the the source.
[00:18:30] Denise Haas: I like that, and I think managers appreciate that too. What would be a checklist? For boards planning a major project that you would recommend they kind of go through to help it be successful so they feel good at the end of it.
[00:18:46] Chris Boortz: Okay. First of all, you've gotta kind of high level figure out what you're wanting to do.
[00:18:50] Chris Boortz: Do you have deck problems? Do you have siding problems? Do you have roof problems? You know, grading, drainage? What is the general scope? Then I think you have to say, okay, what does the team look like? Not with any necessarily names on it, but do we need an engineer? Do we need an architect? Do we need a landscape engineer?
[00:19:05] Chris Boortz: Do we or a civil or a structural, you know, try to get an idea of what they need. Also, what kind of contractor do we do? Is it just a roofing job? Let's go get a roofing contractor. Is it a variety of things? Let's go get ASR specifically, 100% all the time.
[00:19:23] Denise Haas: Good plug. Good plug. I'm proud of you.
[00:19:26] Chris Boortz: Um. You know, do they need a loan?
[00:19:29] Chris Boortz: Do they need, you know, kind of what kind of general budget is. I mean, it's gotta start in a very general thing is do they think it's a million dollar project? Do they think it's a 500,000? What is it? If so, where are the finances gonna come from? I, I think those are all high level conversations. Okay. Then once you pick that team.
[00:19:46] Chris Boortz: You know, it starts with the design professional. They put together the documents, and I think at that time, you pick a small scope of work, you get some engine, you get some contractors out there engaged and say, okay, look at this small scope. See where you stand financially to kind of, you know, if I tell you that concrete is $10 a foot there, then I probably am not gonna charge you $40 a foot when we do the regular bid.
[00:20:09] Chris Boortz: Right? You can get some benchmarks, if you will, of costing. Then, you know, pick, interview, decide who you wanna work with, who are the people, people work with people, right? Mm-hmm. You know, who's the project manager? Who's the superintendent? Who's the, you know, X, Y, ZI think then you start putting in the plans and, and working along and saying, okay, let's start by prioritizing.
[00:20:31] Chris Boortz: We know we got roof lease. We'll see how much that is. Okay, we're trying to keep it around a million, but that's 500,000. So let's go to the next thing. You just kind of systematically go through and build a budget. Then you lock it in. You say, okay, well we're really at 1.2 million instead of 1 million, but we're gonna get all these things done.
[00:20:48] Chris Boortz: You've worked your way through it. You're not surprised by the fact that you don't have enough. You've drawn a line where you know what you can get done, go to the community. A key to all of this is continual communication with the community, what you're doing. That's huge. It's gotta be a continual open, you know, letter.
[00:21:06] Chris Boortz: Here's where we're at, here's what we're doing, here's what we're thinking, you know, is there any feedback as to what else might need to be done? Because we got one lump to go either assess or find the money. Once you've locked in the, you know, the budget. Figure out, you know, once again, determine that you can pay the bill and how you're gonna do it.
[00:21:22] Chris Boortz: Get that done, and um, then get everyone contracted and set up what the cadence is. What's the conversation? Who's gonna be involved in the project, what's the manager's involvement? You know, I think PE boards don't realize that managers don't include construction projects usually in their fees. And so they think, well, they're just gonna manage it.
[00:21:43] Chris Boortz: Well, it's not that easy. So what's the board's, what's the manager's involvement? Is there a fee to that? What is the engineer's involvement? Which board member's really gonna take the lead? You don't wanna be having a committee every time you gotta make a decision. Usually there is one or two board members that have a little more construction experience or whatever towards this, but, you know, answer all those things.
[00:22:04] Chris Boortz: So you've, you've gotta streamline. And once you get to that process, the community's been notified. You know where the funds are. In that you always wanna put a contingency because there's always a good portion that something could happen. You know, when I talk about contingencies, I'm very clear that it is an owner carried contingency.
[00:22:22] Chris Boortz: In other words, it's not just money there for me to spend in the contract, some that they put aside just in case it needs to get spent.
[00:22:31] Denise Haas: If this conversation of Hey Neighbor is making you wish you had a better HOA community, check out my company. Five Keys, an HOA community management company dedicated to unlocking the full potential of every HOA community we manage. Find out more about our five keys to community success at fivekeyscm.com.
[00:22:54] Denise Haas: Now, back to the show. Have you gotten into a project? And realize that, oh, we need to back out because we're focused on the wrong thing. It's those unseen conditions and you're like, Nope, we're gonna have to divest. 'cause if we don't take care of this project over here right now, you're gonna have a bigger issue.
[00:23:18] Chris Boortz: I've never gotten to a project like that because usually the, you know, you've got a pretty good idea. But where I do see that a lot is in litigation.
[00:23:27] Denise Haas: You are a expert witness sometimes, right? Uh,
[00:23:31] Chris Boortz: yes as far as cost repairs, but what I see also when we get involved in, and even when we don't get involved in it, but a lot of times, you know, litigation happens because somebody's window's leaking and they get tired of fighting the builder on it.
[00:23:43] Chris Boortz: They finally call an attorney, the window gets leaked, and then all of a sudden they come in and they find. Fire related issues and so they sue for a a, a window and then by the time it gets settled, there's enough money to fix all the fire related issues
[00:23:58] Denise Haas: there. There's a lot of truth to that, and that does, it does happen, but I was just curious if it's ever happened where you're like, we're good.
[00:24:06] Denise Haas: We've done all the research, and suddenly you get to one particular building, you open it up and it's like, what the hell just hit us.
[00:24:14] Chris Boortz: Yeah, well, uh, usually though, in fact, I wouldn't say we get, we've gotten hit with that very often because usually when we start looking at projects, we will take the worst building when we can and do any kind of e exploratory testing or destructive testing on that building that we think gonna be the worst.
[00:24:33] Chris Boortz: Usually it's not a hundred percent shocker when you find rotten things behind walls because you can see some indicators on the outside. So a lot of times when we're not sure, and that's another big part of projects is if you put together the team early, is you do more investigative work, whether it's litigation, whether it's repairs, if you're trying to work within value or or amount of dollars that you have.
[00:24:59] Chris Boortz: It's kinda like, okay, we get three bids for every contractor, right? That's old school. You know? It's also like, okay, we're gonna replace all the windows in the community. Well, maybe really the only windows that are really bad are on the west and the south sides of the building. Or maybe you can phase in, say, okay, let's just do two elevations of each building.
[00:25:16] Chris Boortz: Let's do the front elevation. Let's do the one that everyone sees. We'll do this later. You know, it's not all sizes. Fit all. If you're creative, you can defer some things, you can push some things around. But once again, I think that's where the team of a engineer slash architect slash contractor, you know, you, you can look at some different things as you're designing.
[00:25:38] Chris Boortz: So you don't get stuck in this mold of saying, okay, now we gotta fix everything and it's twice as much money we can ever get. Then the paralysis starts.
[00:25:46] Denise Haas: I think that tip right there was probably one of the best tips you've given, is that sometimes when you've put everything together ahead of time, you can really figure out how to get the best bang for your buck by realizing you don't have to necessarily do everything.
[00:26:02] Denise Haas: If you're not having trouble, trouble on the south and west sides, maybe you focus on north and east for a change. Yeah.
[00:26:11] Chris Boortz: Another example is, is in litigation when they say all the windows have to be replaced because they weren't flashed correctly, it might have to happen, but what about the window that's 10 feet back under a covered patio?
[00:26:23] Chris Boortz: Does it matter that it's flashed correctly? 'cause it's never going to see a drop of water. Maybe not. So you gotta sue for it. You gotta get the dollars for it. But if you're, if you're got funds that do, maybe you leave that window out and you spend that. A hundred thousand dollars whatever somewhere else.
[00:26:39] Denise Haas: I'd like to think that everybody just picks really good contractors and we don't go down this path.
[00:26:46] Chris Boortz: This is where the subliminal part says “ASR! ASR! ASR!”
[00:26:51] Denise Haas: I'll let you do that for me. If you could wave the proverbial magic wand and teach every HOA board one thing, what would it be?
[00:27:01] Chris Boortz: I think it's gotta be keep up on deferred maintenance.
[00:27:04] Chris Boortz: I mean, don't let things go. Uh, I think that's the, the best thing. And then, you know, as it relates to going into a project, yeah, pick a team. Don't be scared to pick a good team and, and, and figure out ways to keep it transparent enough to feel comfortable.
[00:27:22] Denise Haas: Do I like that? I would say, Chris, help the boards understand.
[00:27:29] Denise Haas: The costs. I feel like even though you've sat in the room, you've explained it a thousand times, we get to everything and they're like, oh my gosh, it costs this much for overhead. What are the general conditions? I had to pay for asbestos testing and I feel like it gets re-explained a thousand times over, but here in front of all the people.
[00:27:56] Denise Haas: Explain that. Just not ASR, not any other contractor. Just in general, what does it really mean?
[00:28:05] Chris Boortz: First of all, you, you hit one nail on the head and this is asbestos. Now remember, we've got a government that makes rules and sometimes the rules don't make total sense. So asbestos, I think they banned asbestos in the seventies or something like that.
[00:28:19] Chris Boortz: I don't know the exact dates. And it used to be always anything built before the eighties, you had to test. Well, there's this thing called nafta. And when NAFTA happened, they let Mexico sell all sorts of stuff in the us Well, some of the stuff they sell from Mexico is com joint compound and, and stuff that has asbestos in it.
[00:28:38] Chris Boortz: So we can't manufacture anything here, but it's there. So if you have, we, we do a lot of work for home builders that have issues. And if they have a house that they don't even have a certificate of occupancy. If they have a house that they're building and they have a water loss, we have to go in and get the asbestos test, even if the house isn't built yet, because there is still products being used.
[00:29:01] Chris Boortz: It's, you know, the one side of the government now talking to the other. So when people talk about asbestos testing, it's not a choice. Now we happen to have what's our, our GAC license. Two of our employees are actually licensed in the state for asbestos removal. It is actually a criminal act for those two license holders under R if we don't follow these procedures.
[00:29:23] Chris Boortz: So it's not just kind of a, Hey, we'd like to do this. It is a requirement and anyone that tells you differently should not be. Doing this. Exactly. Okay. So that's one side of it. As far as the cost and everything else, you know, you're, you're right. People think like, I've been doing this for 30 years and I live in a decent house, but the amount of cost that's involved and the amount of liability and risk, I, I'll just give you one example.
[00:29:49] Chris Boortz: We did a job up in the mountains a couple years ago and. We got done with it and I had a $20,000 punch list to go down and finish in the spring, and they had a couple weeks. Well, the guy that I had hired to do the work, our employee had missed a very crucial detail. That cost me $360,000 to go down and fix it.
[00:30:10] Chris Boortz: And it was the right thing to do. And that's what we did. And what happens though is we have a lot of liability out there. Everyone says, do you give free estimates? Well, yeah, they're free to someone, but they're not free to me. And so probably the minimum cost I have in an estimate is probably about 1500 bucks.
[00:30:26] Chris Boortz: And on a bigger, you know, more substantial job, it could be 3, 4, 5, $6,000. You know, that cost gets absorbed back in somewhere. You know, no such thing as a free lunch. Right. Um, general, and you're still in business.
[00:30:39] Denise Haas: You are in business to make money
[00:30:41] Chris Boortz: and Absolutely. And, and I'm, I'm not embarrassed of that. You know, general, you shouldn't be.
[00:30:46] Chris Boortz: You know, general conditions. People often say, man, your numbers would be great if you didn't have these general conditions. And the way to, to consider general conditions is you've got the hard cost of the project. You've also got the overhead costs specific to that project. That's what general conditions are.
[00:31:02] Chris Boortz: See overhead. It's not talking about my office, it's not talking about all the trucks out there. It's not talking about my salary and my, my CFO and my, none of that's under the general conditions. It is the overhead specific to a job. So it is real cost. It is real cost to ASR, to the project. So yeah, at the end of the day, then you start whittling all that stuff down.
[00:31:24] Chris Boortz: And yes, we do like to make money, but we have trucks that we have to buy. People really get freaked out about the cost of fans and drying equipment and everything else in, in the emergency services side. And it's like, well, I could buy that fan. Well, yeah, but can you buy somebody to go to the shop, pick it up, bring it over, turn it on, clean it out, and then clean it when it's done, take it back.
[00:31:47] Chris Boortz: And also that fan has to be sitting there, and sometimes it sits there for a. You know, a long time without being used, but we've gotta have it, you know? And so there's a huge overhead expense to that, which when it strikes, you gotta get it done. And then there's the other part of just, you know, general, we gotta carry the money.
[00:32:04] Chris Boortz: We do these projects and we have to carry the money, you know, we pay all our people and then we wait to get paid sometimes weeks, months, years. So that's all the stuff that comes into it.
[00:32:14] Denise Haas: But I think it's good for people to understand that because when that bill comes, even though you've had the conversations.
[00:32:22] Denise Haas: All the stuff was agreed to. It all comes in particularly on an emergency services. And then it becomes, this is the part I hate. I hate it. I despise it. I'm like, this should be so simple. You watched it, you were there. But boards end up picking that apart. And then we bring in the insurance adjuster, which is always good to have your contractor walk with your insurance adjuster.
[00:32:50] Denise Haas: It will save you tons of heartache in the end. And so. I want people to understand what's going into it, to, if we can stop two boards from questioning and understanding, I would love it.
[00:33:06] Chris Boortz: Well, and I think the other thing, you know, you asked about what they could do preventative or a magic wand. It's also boards having a clear plan and understanding of what the board's gonna cover.
[00:33:16] Chris Boortz: And what the HOAs is gonna cover or what the homeowner has to cover, especially as it relates to, to emergencies As a management company, you know, you are, are tasked to have to call someone like us when there's an emergency. Well. What happens when the owner is responsible and they don't wanna pay?
[00:33:35] Denise Haas: So then we're saying, so association, you're gonna pay and we're gonna have to bill it back and go after the homeowner.
[00:33:41] Chris Boortz: Yeah. Yeah. And not everyone understands that though. And some people are like, well, you know, we've had management companies say. You're, you are gonna have to fight with the homeowner. It's like, well, no, we have the relationship with you. We did what you asked. We, we expect that, you know, so as a management company, you know, you need to have in place that you're gonna be able to get that money recouped, you know, from whoever.
[00:34:02] Chris Boortz: But the board has to understand that sometimes there's lapses in the insurance on what gets covered and what doesn't. So it's also, you know, making sure that's buttoned up tight to understand it in a perfect world would be okay. This is your own problem. Sometimes if it's in the second floor, you don't want it to be their own problem 'cause they don't take care of it.
[00:34:19] Chris Boortz: It affects the next person under 'em.
[00:34:22] Denise Haas: That's a true statement. The neighbor to neighbor water issues are ones that give me the most angst. Yeah.
[00:34:30] Chris Boortz: Can be really problematic. Absolutely.
[00:34:32] Denise Haas: We kind of talked about preventative maintenance and cost savings. I want to know. What's the funniest or strangest thing you've encountered on a job?
[00:34:44] Denise Haas: You always have a great story.
[00:34:47] Chris Boortz: I'm gonna tell you my favorite project that we've done. Okay. And it's more just about creativity and it was just, I thought it was fun. We have a, um, project in Cherry Creek. It is a U-shaped building where the back has a swimming pool and it backs up to some very high-end houses.
[00:35:07] Chris Boortz: And their swimming pool, which sits on top of the parking garage, had waterproofing issues and it was leaking down and it was getting very life safety concerning to where they had to tear the swimming pool out and re waterproof the, the cavity that it sat in. So we had a job walk with the three bidders.
[00:35:26] Chris Boortz: The only solution that they had at the time was to take this swimming pool via wheelbarrow through the lobby to get it out to the front drive circle to fill trucks. That was the direction given at the, at the bid walk that we were going to. Take all this through the lobby, one wheelbarrow at a time, and this is a relatively large pool, so I thought, well, what if we just cut a hole next to the pool, down into the parking deck and we just pull a dump trailer?
[00:35:51] Chris Boortz: So we literally dropped everything down into the parking garage, one dump trailer at a time, and just drove it out.
[00:35:58] Denise Haas: Oh my gosh. I love that.
[00:36:00] Chris Boortz: So it saved a lot of angst, a lot of time. It saved him a lot of money. I mean, there was, you know, and, and, and, uh,
[00:36:07] Denise Haas: one wheelbarrow at a time.
[00:36:09] Chris Boortz: Yeah.
[00:36:09] Denise Haas: That really is an awesome story,
[00:36:11] Chris Boortz: you know, and the other part about that that I like is that particular project started out, we did one balcony for a homeowner that had some litigation issues.
[00:36:21] Chris Boortz: Property manager liked how we did the work, and now we are on. Probably the third or fourth large scale project with that particular manager, just because she has the faith in, you know, our team, you know, a hundred percent to come in and do things and keep everyone right. You know? Right. The same manager had a, a high rise that had a six story loss in it.
[00:36:42] Chris Boortz: And, uh, you know, we, we got the call.
[00:36:45] Denise Haas: My heart goes out to that for that six story loss. Yeah. Yeah. I do feel that.
[00:36:49] Chris Boortz: Yeah. But it works if you do it right.
[00:36:51] Denise Haas: It does work if you do it right. It doesn't take much either.
[00:36:55] Chris Boortz: And, you know, we're finding, everyone's finding a struggle, hiring people with, you know, the thing.
[00:37:00] Chris Boortz: But the one thing that, that we've done, I think as a company and, and really the, the most important aspect that we've got is, is, is the give a damn factor. And that's kind of what we've been hiring on for a long time. It's just people that really care and wanna come in and do the best they can. And, and that's important.
[00:37:15] Denise Haas: It is really important and that's what makes you stand out. So if. Someone's getting ready to kick off a construction project. What's one piece of advice you'd like to leave them with?
[00:37:29] Chris Boortz: Just put together a good team, and it's all about planning, team and communication.
[00:37:36] Denise Haas: Look at you. You never cease to amaze me and make me laugh at the same time.
[00:37:44] Denise Haas: Thank you for joining us for this episode of Hey Neighbor. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts for more insights on building better communities together.