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The Border Chronicle podcast is hosted by Melissa del Bosque and Todd Miller. Based in Tucson, Arizona, longtime journalists Melissa and Todd speak with fascinating fronterizos, community leaders, activists, artists and more at the U.S.-Mexico border.
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I've always taken such charge. You are listening to the Border Chronicle.
speaker-1 (00:12)
Hi everyone and welcome to the Border Chronicle Podcast. I'm Caroline Tracy. I cover the environment and arts and culture for the Border Chronicle. And today's podcast covers a bit of both of those things. I had the good fortune to speak with Mary Reynolds, who is a writer and the author of the recent book, The Quake That Drained the Desert, which is about an 1887 earthquake that had its epicenter in northern Sonora, Mexico. It was felt on both sides of the border and responded to by
⁓ scientists and others on both sides of the border as well. And interestingly, it had significant effects for the way that the hydrology of the regions works and changed the way that water acts in southern Arizona and northern Sonora today. So Mary and I spoke about the interesting characters that responded to this earthquake and the lingering effects and impacts of the earthquake today.
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On May third,
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eighteen eighty seven a seven point four magnitude earthquake.
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US Mexico border near a town called Bavis Bay. And Bavispe ⁓ sits on the ⁓ Babisbe River and it is ⁓ was a very small town, about seven hundred people live there.
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A town.
But the earthquake
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that it destroyed every building and
were one story adobe buildings that were typical of places in the Mexico and the South. ⁓ the feet thick and the roofs were giga beams, sticks, dirt was a typical construction. The roofs were not attached to when the earthquake struck the wall
speaker-2 (01:57)
Southwest then.
Walls were too thick.
And mud, which was destruction.
Yeah.
balls moved at least two feet.
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And the roofs collapsed on the people because it was May and May is kept hot in Arizona, Mexico. So they were inside escaping the day and it was because the roofs fell in them. And people in Bavis Bay, half of them were children.
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And it killed about forty one people.
Another nine people died Puto Sonora. Same thing.
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in the town of Opa with the thing, the houses were collapsing and there was ⁓ incredible destruction. The other thing that happened was the literally ripped open and there was
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The earth literally open is a sixty mile scarp running north and south.
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through Sonora that ⁓ is still visible today and it just shows the dramatic power of the earth at that time. And the seven point four magnetic earthquake was felt as far away as El Paso.
speaker-2 (03:13)
Okay.
Magnitude Earth.
You murmured.
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Santa Fe, New Mexico, and it is on the edge of Mexico City.
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And even rang church bells.
speaker-1 (03:37)
Wow, that's wild. That's amazing. ⁓ and you you have a story you interviewed someone whose whose relative had even fallen into that scarp as it opened but was able to climb back out. That was kind of an amazing story.
speaker-0 (03:50)
Yes, I went into ⁓ Bavis Bay, Mexico. a friend of mine was an artist and he knew another artist who lived in the area and that artist name was Jess Davila and he ⁓ actually had an ⁓ Annetta Davila and told me stories that her
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In the air.
His aunt told me
Her grandfather had told her.
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Because her grandfather had been a kid during the time of the earthquake. And her grandfather said that ⁓ his brother Davila, so her she refers to him as Te Loreto. Te Loreto was walking home from the
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So it's her.
Field, the Milpah, which was the community gardens on the outside of the of the town. The earth up beneath his feet, he fell in
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And the earth literally opened up
And it wrapped the earth wrapped her hands when she straight just how the earth was closing in on his waist and then at the last second it popped him out. So he had a very fragile with the earthquake and other she another ⁓ uncle who was about five years older than
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We also mentioned an
the time and he was in the town of Wachinera, which is just south of
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He was there with his ⁓ father and they were ⁓ watching they were in the plaza. There were donkeys walking across the plaza with cav carrying ⁓ balls, which are the agave balls. And so he was enjoying watching the donkeys. He thought they were funny. ⁓ but then the earth started and the donkeys bolted and the mola balls went. And so she
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Mola Fruit Ball.
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She remembers that story ⁓ her grandfather told about s what was happening.
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Two.
In a nearby town.
speaker-1 (05:50)
Wow. Yeah, it's amazing to be able to to talk to people who have that kind of ⁓ memory. Can you can you tell us about how you initially learned about this event?
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Yes, I was working for the town of Saurita in southern Arizona and I was the community's coordinator. So it was my job to get an the message out to the community, whatever the town wanted to tell people about events or utilities, that sort of thing. And there had been ⁓ a West Nile virus ⁓ issue in Saurita and Green Valley, and so we were trying to tell people the best way to keep
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And
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mosquitoes out of their yards, you know, not have standing water. So we were getting training on this from ⁓ an Arizona State Health Department official. And he was telling us about how there was malaria problems like Westnow virus is a mosquito born disease like malaria. And he said, well malaria was a brig in Arizona in all these because they were at ⁓ on the bank rivers and that is where mosquitoes
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And
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So he mentioned ⁓ Fort Lowell, which is in Tucson, and I grew up near Fort Lowell Park, so I knew exactly what he was talking about. ⁓
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He in northern Fort Bowie as well. And then he also mentioned the town of the
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St. David, Arizona, which ⁓ was built the San Pedro River. ⁓ and it the Mormon community established themselves there because it was fertile. They could use i irrigation in the San Pedro, as well as they set up a lumber mill so they could supply the town of T.
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From the
mills that they use to process the silver.
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So St. David was a very successful town economically, but ⁓ the State Department
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Department of Health said they had a terrible malaria problem there. That the Saint David wrote to the leaders, the church leaders in Salt Lake City and said, Please can we move because everyone is sick?
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And it was so bad, people in St.
And the and the s and the leader said, No, you hold out, stay there, everything will be okay. So sure enough, eighteen eighty seven, May third, the earthquake struck in Sonora, Mexico, and it made the same
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In eight eighty seven
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That it wiped malarial pools. So then everyone could recover and there wasn't a malaria problem.
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There any more?
speaker-1 (08:38)
Wow, that's wild. And is it normal for there to be earthquakes in this region? I think that, you know, it was surprising to me that this had ever even happened.
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Well, you could define it depends on what you mean when you say normal. Right. ⁓ you know, if you look over millions of years, yes have earthquakes. In fact this
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It's normal to earthquake. This whole region is part of the basin and range region of North America.
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That extends from northern Mexico up into Idaho, Nevada. And the basins are the valleys and mountains. And this ⁓ region. And if you look at the Santa Catalina Mountains sunset, sort of cliffs along the Santa Catalina.
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Northern Ho includes Utah
Valley and the ranges are the mountain.
the and raised the mountains. Those were all caused by earthquakes. Actually dropped.
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and the cliff, you know, stayed up and that's how this whole area was formed. ⁓ you can if you walk along the Cañata del Roche in Oro Valley, there's even a ⁓
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Or a what?
Interpretive sign that tells you at fault and
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And you look up at Push Ridge and that is caused was caused by a r an earthquake along what is
speaker-1 (10:00)
Wow, okay. Yeah, I guess you just have to think in the correct ⁓ you know, time frame for for what's normal.
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Well and and also you know on August this year, twenty twenty six, there was a small earthquake in Agua Prieta just over the border from Douglas. And so this this region is prone to earthquakes. there was another earthquake ⁓ in twenty fourteen in ⁓ Duncan, Arizona on the Arizona New Mexico border, and that was a five point three earthquake. So ⁓ the air
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This is
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The Arizona Geologic Survey ⁓ says that, you know, people do need earthquakes in Arizona because every year there is an earthquake that people feel, like the one in in Duncan, and some people in Tucson ⁓ experienced it. It's not like you feel it's it wasn't big enough where you feel the the floor shine, but they notice their wind.
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Shaking they noticed window shades moving or they noticed a desk drawer.
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are ⁓ sort of slowly coming the of the desk and that's because there was that tiny bit from the break.
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Coming out of death.
movement the Duncan earthquake.
speaker-1 (11:14)
Yeah. Wow, that's that's really interesting to know about. But yeah, I remember being in in in Mexico last year in central Mexico. I was in Queratero, which is like three hours north of Mexico City, and I woke up and the light above me was swinging ever so slightly, and I thought, I've never seen that light swinging before. And sure enough there had been an earthquake in Mexico City. But when I was telling people the light was swinging, people were saying, No, no, you never there there are never effects of earthquakes here, but there weren't.
but so you found out about this topic ⁓ from the West Nile virus ⁓ meeting that you had, and then how did you decide to dive into it and write a whole book about it?
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Well, I was I was thinking about it because I thought, well, if the earth earthquake happened and the same, then were there other in the area? So ⁓ I I had the ⁓ good fortune to be to be able to talk to ⁓ a geophysicist Max Suter ⁓
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Water changes in the
Who was here named Matt, and he had done a lot of research on the eighteen eighty seven earthquake.
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And he ⁓ had found the files that Doctor Goodfellow had Goodfellow had written about. ⁓ Doctor Goodfellow was one of the people in eighteen
to Mexico to earthquake. He also ⁓ had the ⁓ scientific articles from Jose Aguilera, who was a ⁓ naturalist and
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An engineer living in Hermosillo and he was commissioned from Mexico to go investigate the Earth.
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by the presid the by the president of the earthquake. So ⁓ I interviewed Max Suter ⁓ about his work and ⁓ he he told well yes and of course there are photographs from eighteen seven and I was like wow incredible resource but you know he Max Souter had published some of this in scientific journals but I really felt like the story had
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He told me as he told me more and more, he said
This is incredible and incredible.
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to a wider audience. And so I wrote a an article through S magazine and then I wrote an article. And as I kept researching it, I just found more and more information. And it was you know it was a it was a personal interest to me because I had grown up right near Fort Low Park area problem. ⁓ my s my high school, Catalina High School, had metal
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Article for true article for desert leaf here in Tucson.
For me.
Where there had been a malaria.
Metal earthquake bands across the
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the hallways. So and those case because of this earthquake. So if the if there was an earth a big earthquake, the building would would fall and people would have a a chance to get out before. So as I was seeing all these personal connections, it just made me more interested in the story. ⁓ and then I did some research on ⁓ different, you know, Mormon from St. David as well as
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Diaries St. David as well as another town in Colonel.
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northern Mexico called Colin Juarez, ⁓ which is still a vibrant Mormon community today. And they they also experienced the earthquake and water changes. So I that's how I got interested in it. And then I also ⁓ looked at other places ⁓ in the United States that had earthquakes in the in the and they're places you don't think
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And
In the eighteen hundred.
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Of there being earthquakes, for example.
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New New Madrid had a massive earthquake seven point two earthquake in December eighteen eleven, eighteen twelve in the middle of the country on the Mississippi River, and water changes there reported seeing the Mississippi River run back because of the force of the
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Missouri had a massive earthquake ascended.
And that was an earthquake and people
Backwards. And it just and it ate away and ate away at the shoreline of the town of New Madrid. So people had to keep moving. Their h I mean houses were destroyed. No one died, but they went to a hillside nearby and eventually they were able to re near the river. But the river completely changed. Islands that had been in the middle of the Mississippi were gone. ⁓ there was another place
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Near.
Rebuild.
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in Tennessee, which was right nearby, ⁓ called ⁓ I can't remember what it was called at the time, but it now it's called Real Foot Lake because the earthquake made ⁓ the river surge, but then it also created dam to block the water. It's a lake and it's like a recreational today. So there were there was there was a earthquake in ⁓ Charleston, South Carolina.
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Created a natural damage, and so now it's a creation area. You can still visit.
Also another large earth.
In eighteen eighty six.
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which was r just one year before the earthquake I write about. And another interesting connection with that earthquake is Jose Aguilera had been ⁓ staying at
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And so he certainly
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So he had access to other scientists and the scientific method for how the US Geological Survey investigated the South Carolina earthquake. So then when Jose Aguilera returned to Mexico in eleven, he had the skills and the knowledge on how to investigate this earthquake.
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Okay.
speaker-1 (16:51)
That's neat. Yeah, I I mean it I guess now that I have been exposed to your book, it seems obvious that earthquakes would change the way that water flows and the way that water infiltrates into the ground, but it's not something I had ever really seriously thought about before. ⁓ I guess n you know, now that I thought about it, I remember hearing one story about some springs that had dried up after a small earthquake, but I never really made a bigger connection. ⁓ but one thing that I really liked in in your book was
How you used a a variety of different research methods. You know, you you had sort of a journalistic element of going down and collecting the oral histories and then ⁓ a lot of science ⁓ and and the Mormon diaries, which you mentioned, which I've also I mean, I've also used Mormon diaries and research, and they're just amazing resources for seeing daily life back in ⁓ in the eighteen hundreds. So can you talk about kind of how you brought together how you chose those different methods and how you brought them together in the writing?
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Well, I was fortunate to have connection to Bavis Bay because I was I had been right when I found out about the earthquake, I was telling my friend ⁓ Lee Blackwell
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And
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And he ⁓ said, well, ⁓ my friend Jess lives in Wachinera and he ⁓ might know something about this. So he he contacted Jess Davila and ⁓ Jess Davila set up ⁓ with me ⁓ for me ⁓ with several people in Wachinera and the town of Bavispe. So that was just luck that I knew someone who knew someone.
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As I mentioned earlier.
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in Bavis Bay. ⁓ and and that was that was gr it was great to be in Bavis Bay to really feel what it was like in that part of the in that port of Sonora. It's it's very similar to Tucson where you have ⁓ mountains that are you know f five to six thousand feet tall, you've got trees in the mountains and you've got sort of scrub desert ⁓ in the valleys, but the Bavis Bay River is is a a major river.
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And it does irrigate fields and farms.
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fields and there's ranch in there in the area just like there was back in eighteen eighty seven. So that that was really ⁓ my favorite part of the trip. And as I talked to people there, we went to ⁓ a party and someone with the last name of Elias who you know is a very prominent family here and the Elias family, ⁓ he said that
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Leas.
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H his rent the ranch at his family's house had also dried up in Nora. So I would I would hear these stories and ⁓ I I continued to do the research, like Max Suter had given me ⁓ the resources of the Dr. Goodfellow's articles, ⁓ Jose Aguilera's articles, and then ⁓ I also did some other ⁓ research at special collections. They had ⁓ the Hermesillo.
newspaper ⁓ that was in Spanish and I knew a little bit of Spanish because ⁓ at the time of most when I really first started my research, I was living in Barcelona. And so I I knew some Spanish, but then I just used like you Google Translate or other things to to translate some of the Spanish. ⁓ and that was sort of a funny story because I learned Spanish in high school, which you know really wasn't learning Spanish. And then I went to Barcelona and
I I did learn Spanish there, but then the kind of Spanish that is spoken in Barcelona is very different than the kind of Spanish spoken in rural Sonora. So I was really h happy to have Jess Davila there to help translate what people were and and make sure I got the right the exact right thing ⁓ in my notes. I also did research looking for photos at the Arizona Historical Society. I I looked up
other things about Dr. Goodfellow and and Buckographer and I even found ⁓ George Goodfellows diary from when he was in sixth grade. And that was kind of funny. And I thought, how can I use this in my book? But it really wasn't relevant. So I I didn't ⁓ in my book. ⁓ 'cause 'cause Goodfellows had grown up ⁓ in
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Fly who was the photographer
I didn't use it.
in mining. His his father had been a mining engineer. He had lived in Prescott.
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⁓ in his Arizona for a time. ⁓ and then he you know, he went to ⁓ Annapolis Naval Academy where he got kicked out for fighting. And then he went on to get his medical training and he he he served actually in as a doctor at Fort here in Tucson before he went down to umstone. So that was another connection. You know, it's just these ⁓
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Lol.
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The the towns were not you know, it was difficult to travel at the time, but people were doing it. You know, they were taking the train or taking the horse and wagon to go to these various places.
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Between towns at the time.
speaker-1 (22:12)
Yeah. ⁓ I I wanna ask you about the the different sort of colorful characters that appear in this book, starting maybe with Buck Fly, the photographer who had a really unusual life. Can you tell us about that life and how he ended up at the earthquake?
speaker-0 (22:27)
Yeah, Buckfly he f started he grew up in California and he had a photography studio in San Francisco, but then Tombstone was a boom town, so he both moved to Tombstone. And she was a partner in ⁓ they had a photography studio because if you're a minor, you're money to spend on things like photographs. So they had a successful photography
speaker-2 (22:39)
She
Yeah.
Miners are making money and you have money
Yeah.
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studio and they also had a successful boarding house. And you can see sort of a recreation of his ⁓ photography studio if you go to
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Tombstone. Today.
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⁓ he was ⁓ the other interesting thing about the Fly studio was it was right next to the OK Corral. And we all know what happened at the OK Corral. There was a big gunfight, and one of the people in the gunfight, like dragged themselves into ⁓ Fly's studio and ⁓ Fly managed to take Buck Fly managed to take the guy's rifle away so he couldn't shoot him anyone. And ⁓
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Injured.
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The doctor came to try to ⁓ save him, but the
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The man died there.
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so ⁓ that's one thing Buckfly was involved with. ⁓ in eighteen eighty six General Crook from the US Army went to Mexico to negotiate with ⁓ the Apaches. And on his way, Buckfly stopped him at the door and said to have a photograph with this very fearsome Apache leader.
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H
⁓ Nico.
border and said, Hey, wouldn't you love of you negotiating
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Geronimo. And so General Crook said, Okay, we'll give you one donkey to kill. And ⁓ Fly also had his own horse. But ⁓ Fly and an assistant carried their equipment with General Crook down into
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Carry your equipment.
Bye.
to Mexico in eighteen eighty six.
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And they met ⁓ Geronimo and the other Apaches at a place called Cañon de los Hambudos, which was just very close to Babylon or the Earth.
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Base Bay, which is where the earthquake happened a year later.
speaker-0 (24:46)
So about back to eighteen eighty six, these photographs of Geronimo and the Warriors and the Warriors families ⁓ were became famous photos that Buckfly took and he sold weekly, but then he also sold ⁓ individual images. So they put on these manila cards at the time and he sold them ⁓ across the country. People wanted pictures of ⁓
speaker-2 (25:00)
Them to ⁓ Harper
⁓ and the Apaches and
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⁓ 'cause, you know, no one had seen pictures of Apaches as as up close as Buck Fly was able to get. And the interesting thing is ⁓ Geronimo actually asked Fly to take a family photo of him of Geronimo and his ⁓ son and his son in law and a small ⁓ toddler or baby. And so that was sort of like Geronimo was asking Fly for a family.
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Buckle.
Torch?
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And but Buckfly took any other pictures of the surrender ⁓ in Cañón de los Himbudos. And so that's that's another reason that ⁓ Fly wanted to go back to Sonora the next year, eighteen eighty seven after the earthquake, and George Goodfellow said, who was also from Tombstone, the the doctor, he said, Well, yes, you can go with the territory. ⁓ also I'm sure that Buckfly
said to Dr. Goodfellow, Well wouldn't you love to have pictures to illustrate your scientific articles? And so ⁓ I think people he was you know he was an entrepreneur, so he ⁓ knew how to sell his services and he knew that that pictures would really bring the story to life.
speaker-1 (26:35)
Yeah, it's amazing to think how hard it was to get photos of important events ⁓ back then. And I I was just thinking this connects nicely to like some recent coverage we've done. We did a podcast with Logan Phillips when when his book came out from University of Arizona Arizona Press. So we talked a lot about Tombstone and then a recent novel called Now I Surrender we covered that has to do with the Geronimo the Apache Wars and the end of the Apache Wars. So
⁓ yeah, it's it's interesting how connected it the whole history of the region is. ⁓ can you tell us about Dr. Goodfellow?
speaker-0 (27:09)
Yes, ⁓ Doctor Goodfellow ⁓ was a physician in Tombstone and he also wrote several articles based on his experiences in Tombstone that were published in ⁓ national, you know, medical journals like Science. ⁓ one article he he published was on ⁓ if a Gila monster is poisonous
speaker-2 (27:34)
Enough to kill you or not.
speaker-0 (27:36)
And he decided he because people said, if you get bitten by a Hila monster, you will s you will surely die. And he said, ⁓ well, let's just test that. And so he paid people to bring Hela monsters and then he tested it on himself. He he got a
And ⁓ it it became and ⁓ you know, he felt a little but then eventually he healed because it wasn't poisonous. So he published that article in Science Journal. he also as as a had a lot of experience with ⁓ re gunshots because you know it was when people were shooting each other and
He ⁓ he really ⁓ developed this method where you don't just sew up where the bullet and clean out
speaker-2 (28:36)
went in you need to go inside the wound and make sure you're you're repairing all the tears that might be inside the body.
speaker-0 (28:42)
them body before you finally clean out the wound and ⁓ sew the outside. So he published these these articles ⁓ again. So when ⁓ the earthquake happened in seven he had a somewhat of a national prominence. So the US Geological Survey director at the time, Clarence Dutton, said
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eighteen eighty seven.
speaker-0 (29:10)
Doctor Goodfellow, why don't you go down and s use your scientific background to see if happened?
speaker-2 (29:15)
you can figure out what happened with the earthquake in Sonora.
speaker-1 (29:19)
Gotcha. Wow. Yeah, they it's it's interesting they had such kind of Wild West lives, both of them. ⁓ and then of course there's Jose Aguilera ⁓ coming in from the Mexico side. This had kind of like a cross border response. Can you talk about who that character was?
speaker-0 (29:36)
Yes, Jose Aguilera had grown up in in northern Mexico and he was ⁓ his parents were both from Spain and so he was ⁓ from a wealthier
speaker-2 (29:43)
Spain.
speaker-0 (29:50)
As a child who taught him everything from he learned how to speak the Apache language, ride a horse, he learned how to play the piano and the violin. So he was very ⁓ educated at the time for for the time. Then he got on his horse and he rode to Mexico City where he continued his education.
So he was stationed ⁓ in different parts of Mexico, but at in eighteen eighty seven he was stationed.
speaker-2 (30:18)
eighteen in Ermesia where he was doing work for the
speaker-0 (30:22)
for Sonoran state government. And so h because he was ⁓ a scientist, an engineer as well as a naturalist, ⁓ when the earthquake happened, ⁓ President Porfirio Diaz commissioned him to go investigate what happened
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Engine.
And him happened in the earthquake.
speaker-0 (30:41)
So he took he had people with him, ⁓ a a map maker, army lieutenant with him, because even though ⁓ Geronimo had surrendered, there were still some there was still some apathy. So you couldn't just travel by yourself with some other people. So it took them airmaster to Bavis Bay because the earth there were
speaker-2 (31:02)
Nine days to get from
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Some of them had filled with water, plus the the trail had falling rock. So eventually they did get to ⁓ Buffy's Bay and ⁓ Aguilera looked at how the walls of the buildings fell, and he had also looked at the rock falls on the way there to to determine where the epicenter was and determine the direction of the waves, the earthquake waves, and where the epicenter was. And the epicenter ended up being
speaker-2 (31:18)
Yeah.
speaker-0 (31:40)
just north of Bavis Bay, in a l little place called Ba Bapita. And ⁓ while Aguilera was in Bavis Bay, shitty meet but Dr. Goodfellow and Buckfly. So that there's a picture in the book of the two expeditions in the epicenter. And so there's a bunch of horses and a bunch of people in different uniforms. And so it was pretty cool that they they both
speaker-2 (31:44)
Interestingly,
What's
Together at the episode.
speaker-0 (32:08)
They all met there and they they shared shared data. And ⁓ in fact, ⁓ Aguilera published his work in a Mexican and he his map of the rupture looks just like Doctor Goodfellow's map of the rupture that was published in
speaker-2 (32:15)
Yeah.
speaker-0 (32:26)
science. And Aguilera actually went on to be quite an international leader in science. ⁓ He and his ⁓ another colleague created this map of Mexico that showed different minerals and ⁓ geology of Mexico and they shared that map at the World Exposition, excuse me, at the World Exposition ⁓ in Paris.
speaker-2 (32:30)
An internet
Giant ⁓ the different minerals and
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the same year that the Eiffel Tower was the expos landmark, ⁓ Joseph map of Mexico because they were always trying to get ⁓ European investment in Mexico in the
speaker-2 (32:59)
Positions.
Aguilera was there, presenting his magnetic
Minds.
speaker-1 (33:11)
That's fascinating. That's yeah, that's a really interesting tale to the story. you mentioned ⁓ a few times that this earthquake, or we talked a little bit about how this earthquake really changed the hydrology of this region, but can you for you know for the for those of us that live in Tucson and in southern Arizona, can you just talk a little bit about just how much it changed the hydrology and what what really what differences in the landscape are we seeing now that were not the way they were?
speaker-0 (33:37)
Well ⁓ in eighteen seven ⁓ the city of Tucson had about seven thousand people in it and there was ⁓ a wild
speaker-2 (33:44)
Water was being piped from the
speaker-0 (33:46)
So water from upstream in the Santa Cruz River
speaker-2 (33:51)
into the city, into certain parts of the city. If you weren't connected to Maine, you got water either from a water or most people got water from Elojito Spring.
speaker-0 (33:54)
But it to that water man.
Well that you had on your own property. Which had been there since the Spanish in
speaker-2 (34:07)
At least since the hair in the seventeen seventies.
speaker-0 (34:12)
So Elojito Spring is approximately where ⁓ Leo Carrillo school is, south of down. So Elojito Spring provided water to people, but it also provided water to a place called ⁓ Carrillo, Carillo Springs, which was a where there was like a ponds and Leo Carrillo was a ⁓ a wealthy landowner.
speaker-2 (34:18)
Town Tucson.
speaker-0 (34:39)
orchards and people would go have picnics there. And ⁓ eighty seven that spring went dry. So Leo Carillo had to find somewhere else to get water. He did. He he tapped into the the water mains to to continue his ⁓ pavilions and picnic area. But other people had to find other places to get water. So the city of Tucson really had to struggle to
speaker-2 (34:44)
May third, eighteen eighty.
speaker-0 (35:09)
expand their water main to supply water, but other other people bought, you know, they were there were entrepreneurs and they're like, well we we have a well, we're gonna fill up our tank and put it on our wagon and sell water for, you know, five cents a bucket in this in the city of Tucson. So that happened as well. another spring went dry near Tucson was at San Javier Mission. There was a spring called Agua de Mission and ⁓
ir with that was irrigating the Tahana Autumn fields. That spring went dry on May thirteen. But fortunately for the Autumn people, the another spring came up about two miles away, so they were able to quickly ⁓ build a reservoir there irrigating. But the crops near agua de Misión Spring, those those were
speaker-2 (35:41)
Spring also went on third, eighteen eighty seven.
And damn it and use that for your
speaker-1 (36:06)
Yeah, it's I mean it's amazing to sort of imagine. ⁓ and then I guess, you know, to wrap up, you you end the book talking about contemporary ⁓ restoration projects. And I was wondering if you could talk to us a little bit about the the relevance of those of those contemporary projects to the story that you tell.
speaker-0 (36:25)
Well the the the history of Tucson has been one of sort of misguided boosterism and optimism ⁓ water. ⁓ you know, even in the eighteen eighties, people from the Midwest and the East Coast came here and said, that's this a little bit and we can just build reservoirs and we can irrigate and grow cotton and mine copper and we'll just keep digging deeper and the
speaker-2 (36:34)
Around why?
eighteen eighties and eighteen ninety.
Gator Field.
speaker-0 (36:55)
water is endless and everything'll be great. ⁓ but we know today that that's that's not the case that we pleaded the aquifer. ⁓ and that's why Tucson is getting some river s some water from the Colorado River, but now that's in because the Colorado River
speaker-2 (37:04)
We have deprived
Danger because
speaker-0 (37:18)
Hello. So but I didn't want to end on such a gloomy note, my book. So I looked at
speaker-2 (37:24)
at different organizations and governments that are to restore water here in the southwest.
speaker-0 (37:32)
And one organization ⁓ in northern Mexico is called Cuenca and that is started by Valer a woman named Valera Clark and to ⁓ restore desert desert land that had been grazed and dried out and they to put small small rock structures structures in arroyos.
speaker-2 (37:36)
A los ojos.
She figured out a way to
speaker-0 (38:01)
So when the monsoons came and and came down the the the river, the these rocks would slow the water flow and also build up sediment in dry areas. You know sediment that had
speaker-2 (38:11)
in these areas nutrients in it from vegetation.
speaker-0 (38:17)
So ⁓ Cuenca Los Ojos is the middle of Cuenca Los Ojos is at the tip of where this earthquake happened. So so that's a that was an interesting connection for me that the ⁓ I believe it's called Cuñ is where the ⁓ the earthquake rupture actually crosses Cuñon.
speaker-2 (38:25)
Very northern.
Bonito which is a place in Cuenco very successful stream restoration.
speaker-0 (38:43)
Where they have had
So it's not like you just b you put it down some rocks and the next year everything's fine. It it takes several years, but they have have created ⁓ where where it'd been dry all year l all year long, now they're water. And they Cuenca Los Ojos uses ⁓ still has ⁓ cattle in some places, but they rotate the cattle from place to place so they're not completely ⁓
speaker-2 (38:55)
⁓
And just drop
⁓
Overgrazing.
speaker-0 (39:16)
⁓ there has been success with that in in places in Arizona as well. ⁓ another group group that's doing ⁓ interesting work like that with small rock structures is the Borderlands Restoration Network, which has headquarters in in Patagonia, and they have gotten contracts from the Forest Service and from other private ⁓ landowners to use these ideas of building these structures and slowing the water.
speaker-2 (39:40)
Same method small rock structure.
speaker-0 (39:46)
in an area so it seeps and it helps restore the landscape.
speaker-2 (39:47)
into the earth.
speaker-1 (39:52)
That's really neat. Yeah, it's it's great that there are these projects happening and it's kind of interesting to be ⁓ working on this landscape that was impacted by by the earthquake. So ⁓ thank you so much for chatting with me. It was really interesting and congratulations again on the on the new book.
speaker-0 (40:09)
Thank you so much. I really enjoyed talking with you.
speaker-1 (40:14)
That was the Border Chronicle Podcast with Mary Reynolds. Thank you so much for listening, and please follow us at the Border Chronicle.com, subscribe to our newsletter, which publishes on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays, and perhaps even join us in person for the Border Chronicle's fifth anniversary birthday party at La Inde Restaurant in Tucson on October 22nd. Thanks again for listening. Bye.
speaker-0 (40:43)
You've always taken such charge.
Border Chronicle.