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In 1993, rock frontwoman Elle Harrison was found dead at Higher Grounds, the Nashville coffeehouse she owned with her three best friends. Authorities ruled it a suicide. Few believed that. Thirty years later, the remaining women break their silence for the first time. Told through candid interviews, Higher Grounds is an intimate oral history of lifelong friendship, ambition, and impossible choices, tracing four women’s lives from girlhood to the explosive moment everything came undone.
Yellowbird Media presents Higher Grounds, a scripted audio drama written and produced by Kimberly Conway.
KAT:I'm Kat Singleton, and this is Higher Grounds episode seven, The House Always Wins 1975. A warning before we begin. This episode contains depictions of domestic violence and other acts of violence that some listeners may find disturbing. Please listen with care.
SYLVIA:Sylvia, that first year and a half with Carmine was like a dream come true. Actually, it felt like more than that. Because before meeting Carmine, I didn't even have the capacity to dream that big.
SYLVIA:I had no point of reference for that level of extravagance. We moved into this penthouse apartment. It was unlike anything I'd ever seen. Marble floors, gilt fixtures, enough space to get lost in. It had floor to ceiling windows that overlooked the city, and I loved that.
SYLVIA:It was so beautiful at night. Sometimes I just stand there and look out those windows, and I think this has to be a dream. There's no way this is my life. And, you know, I thought it was so strange because even with all that, I still didn't feel content. And it wasn't that I wanted more things.
SYLVIA:It's just that I had everything, and I still felt empty inside. Like, there was some part of me that was just missing. I think to myself I should be happy. Right? Shouldn't I be happy?
SYLVIA:Shouldn't I feel something? I couldn't figure it out. Carmon kept pressuring me to marry him, and I'd say, let's wait a little longer. I've been wearing this ring for well over a year, but I I just kept coming up with excuses for why we needed to put the wedding off. He'd say, don't you love me?
SYLVIA:Why don't you wanna be my wife? And I'd say, you know I love you. We don't need a piece of paper to prove that. Then he got on this kick about starting a family. He'd say, I've given you everything you could ever want.
SYLVIA:All I want in return is a family. And I'd say, this penthouse is no place to raise babies. All this marble and glass everywhere, it's an accident waiting to happen. Then he started looking at property so we could build a house.
JONI:Joni. By the 1975, I had a two year old, a one year old, and I had just found out I was pregnant with our third. It was a nightmare. Don't get me wrong. I love my kids, and I wouldn't change a thing.
JONI:But at the time, it was a struggle. I felt like I was drowning. Felt like I'd lost myself. I remember this one night specifically. Russ was working late.
JONI:I was home with the kids. Oh, they'd been fussy and snotty, throwing up for two days. And at that point, I felt like I was barely holding on to my sanity. I had just gotten Russ Junior to sleep and I was nursing Carrie trying to get her to fall asleep so I could have a few minutes of peace. I turned on the television.
SYLVIA:We thought we'll never get out of
GENTRY:this alive. Live from Hollywood.
JONI:And there was Elle. She had a new show. One of those hour long variety shows.
GENTRY:The Monty and Elle Comedy Hour.
JONI:I tuned in just as Elle and Monty Rayburn were coming out for their opening act.
GENTRY:Ladies and gentlemen Monty and Elle.
JONI:Elle looked so glamorous. She had on this sequin jumpsuit that was sparkling under the stage lights. Her hair was almost down to her waist. She looked amazing. After two back to back pregnancies, my body was practically unrecognizable.
JONI:Nothing about my life felt glamorous or exciting. And I wasn't jealous of Elle. At least I don't think I was. But watching her on television, way she was laughing and smiling and sparkling, it made me keenly aware of how mundane my life was. And it just just made me sad.
JONI:And then it made me feel guilty because there was nothing wrong with my life. I told myself, you have nothing to complain about. You have a great life. I put Carrie in her crib, and I went into the kitchen to do the dishes. I turned on the radio, and there was Roz singing her latest hit single.
JONI:I wanted to scream. But of course, didn't dare do that and wake up the kids.
ROZ:Roz. I had a night off between shows in Vegas so a couple of my backup singers and I decided to go shopping. We wandered into this real fancy store. Can you think of the name of it now? It doesn't matter.
ROZ:They closed years ago. Anyway, it was one of those places where the clerks are real helpful and follow you around everywhere. And I don't mean that in a good way. I asked one of the clerks if I could see a purse in one of the display cases. She said this is all very expensive.
ROZ:Then she recommended another store that might be more in my price range. I hadn't told her what my price range was, but I guess she thought she had that all figured out. I was just about to tell her what she could do with that purse when she put on this saccharin smile and left me standing there at the display case. She said, Miss LaRonde, how are you? And she walked over to this lady who just came in the door, gave her a hug and an air kiss on both cheeks.
ROZ:That lady was real fancy. Looked like Miss Dominique Devereaux just stepped off the Setter dynasty and the clerk was tripping all over herself to help her. I told my friends I was ready to go and as we headed for the door, the fancy lady reached out and grabbed my arm. She said, Ross. When I finally recognized that was Sylvia, I'm telling you I had to pick my jaw up off the floor.
ROZ:My girl had made it. We started squealing and hugging each other. We made a big scene right there in the middle of that prissy booty. The clerk was just standing there with that dumb smile frozen on her face like she didn't know whether to keep standing there or walk away. Of course, she wasn't going anywhere.
ROZ:She wasn't going to risk losing that commission she knew she had coming.
SYLVIA:It had been six years. We hugged each other and I could hardly let her go. I didn't know how badly I'd missed her until she was standing right in front of me.
ROZ:I told Sylvia that my friends and I were just getting ready to go to lunch, and I asked if she wanted to join us. She said she'd love to.
SYLVIA:We talked so long at lunch that Roz told her friends to go on without her. She said she didn't wanna hold them up, but we were nowhere near ready to say goodbye. Roz and I spent the rest of the day together. We did some more shopping. We saw a couple of shows, and then we ended up back at my place making margaritas.
ROZ:Sylvia's fiance was in New York on business, so we had the penthouse all to ourselves. That place. I had never seen anything so luxurious in all my life. I was so thrilled for Sylvia not just because she had all the tea in China but because she really seemed happy. She was glowing.
ROZ:She was going on and on about her fiance, how romantic he was, all the exotic places they traveled to. I won't lie, I was impressed. It got late and I told Sylvia I probably ought to be getting back to my hotel but she said, no, stay here, it'll be like old times. She went into her closet and brought me out this silk nightgown to change into. It was sapphire blue and it had a matching silk robe that went all the way to the floor.
ROZ:I said, this might be the nicest thing I've ever had on. She said, you can have it if you want. I've got several of them. She put on one too. I think hers was gold.
ROZ:We went back to the living room and settled in on this big white sectional. It was shaped like a half circle and the whole wall in front of it was nothing but windows that overlooked the city. I'm telling you, the two of us were laid up in that palace like a couple of queens, looking out over the lights of Las Vegas. We spent the whole night talking and reminiscing.
SYLVIA:I don't know what time we finally fell asleep.
RANDI:We ended up sleeping on
SYLVIA:the sofa. And the next morning, the sun woke us up when it started shining on us through the window. Roz says she needed to get back to her hotel. She had two shows that night, then she was off to the next city.
ROZ:We exchanged phone numbers. I said, don't be a stranger. Keep in touch. I told her we needed to try and get all of us girls together again, and she said that sounded like fun. We got dressed, and she drove me back to my hotel.
ROZ:And you better believe I took that silk nightgown with me. I think I still have it tucked away in my closet somewhere.
SYLVIA:Carmine got home that afternoon, and I was I was still on a high from seeing Roz. He said, what what what's got you so happy? I poured him a drink, and I told him I ran into one of my best friends from back home. I told him how we spent the whole day together and she ended up staying the night. And he said, stay the night where?
SYLVIA:I said here with me. He slammed his glass down on the counter so hard it shattered in his hand, and he said, don't ever do that again. I was stunned. I said, don't do what again? He said, don't you bring anyone into this house without talking to me first.
SYLVIA:Do you understand? I didn't answer right away because I was so shocked. He'd never taken such a harsh tone with me. He grabbed me by the arm, pulled me against him, and said, I asked you a question. Do you understand?
SYLVIA:I yanked my arm away. I was about to let him have it, but the way he was looking at me, it it scared me. So I said, fine. He headed for the bedroom, pushed me out of the way with his shoulder as he passed, and I just stood there watching him thinking, did that really just happen? I heard him turn on the ball game.
SYLVIA:Later, after it was over, he came out of the bedroom and started hugging and kissing on me, telling me how sorry he was. And he said, we just have a lot of valuable things in here. We just we gotta be careful who we let inside. I told him he didn't have to worry about Ross. But he said, no one comes in here unless I say it's okay.
SYLVIA:That's just how it's gotta be. I said, alright. Whatever. I never really had anyone over to the house anyway. It wasn't worth fighting over.
SYLVIA:Carmine was real sweet to me for days after that, trying to make it up to me for the way he'd lost his temper. But it was an eye opening experience. That was the first time I'd ever considered that this life I thought was a dream could turn out to be a nightmare.
ROZ:I wish I'd never imagine. I wish
JONI:I had quit my job at the diner after I had our second baby, Carrie. It just wasn't feasible for me to work anymore, but I really missed it. That job had come to mean so much to me. I had gotten really close with the cook, Betty Mae. She was like a mother to me, and I hadn't even realized how much I needed that motherly presence until she came into my life.
JONI:Of course, we still kept in touch after I quit the diner, but it wasn't the same as working with her every day. Betty taught me so much about life, about being a wife and mother. And she also helped me to discover my love of cooking. Well, baking specifically. I told myself once the kids got in school, I'd go back to the diner.
JONI:But that seemed so far away. And I kept getting pregnant. So there was that. One day, it was the dead of summer and our air conditioner wasn't working. I was seven months pregnant and miserable.
JONI:So I took the kids outside and filled up their wading pool. I was sitting there with my feet in the pool cooling off and watching the kids splash around when Betty Mae pulled in. Then Russ pulled in right behind her. It was the middle of the afternoon. It wasn't time for Russ to be home.
JONI:I said, what's going on? He just winked at me and took Carrie out of my arms. He said, Betty wants to take you for a drive. I said, I'm not dressed to go anywhere. Betty said oh it don't matter what you look like just Gideon.
JONI:Russ gave me a kiss on the cheek and said you better go see what she wants. I've got the kids go on have fun. I was so confused But I got in the car. Betty drove me out to the old Greater Mount Zion Church building. She said that the congregation had just moved into a new building and they'd made her a great deal on the old one.
JONI:I said, You're starting a church? She laughed and said, I'm starting a diner, Betty Mays, and I need your help. She told me she wanted to hire me to do all of the baking, and she wanted me to help her get the look of the place just right. Decor, uniforms, all the visuals. I said, Betty, I'd love to, but I don't think I can.
JONI:Right about that time, Russ came walking in the door with the kids. He said, I want you to do this, Joni. You need something of your own that makes you happy. He told me he'd already worked it out with his mother and sister to help with the kids when I was working and said he'd arrange his schedule to help too. He said, We're going to make this work for you.
JONI:I just started crying, hugging everyone. It was just the sweetest thing. Russ and I had been married for a few years at that point, but I really think that was the moment I fell in love with him. I think in a lot of ways I was still bitter because I felt like my life had been hijacked when I got pregnant so young. I was still mourning the life I never got a chance to lead.
JONI:But sometimes you can get so focused on what you don't have that you completely miss what you do. You know what I mean? Russ was a great father, a great husband. He really saw me, really understood me. A lot of women would kill for that.
JONI:And I'd been so caught up feeling sorry for myself that I almost missed it all. Things changed for Russ and I in a big way that day.
SYLVIA:Carmine never said for certain what he did for a living, and I never pressed him for answers. He he was a businessman. His family owned a lot of businesses, and he helped manage them. He did some consulting work on the side. That's what he told me.
SYLVIA:And that was good enough for me. Did I have suspicions that everything he did might not be 100% legal? Of course, I did. But when you've been through what I've been through and this charming, drop dead gorgeous man sweeps you off your feet and gives you everything you could ever want, There are things you're willing to overlook. And that's what I did.
SYLVIA:All the things that didn't add up, all the things that didn't quite sit right, I just overlooked them because everything else was so good. But there came a point where I couldn't turn a blind eye anymore, and that's when everything changed for me. It was my 20 birthday. Carmine and I were going out with Randy and Tony. We had plans to meet them at the same restaurant where Carmine proposed.
SYLVIA:But on the way there, Carmine stopped at this Italian restaurant where he hung out all the time. We were already running late. Said, what are you doing, Randy and Tony are waiting on us? And he said, relax. I just gotta run-in here and take care of something.
SYLVIA:I'll only be a minute. He parked around back, told me to wait in the car. So he went in through the back door, and I was sitting in the car waiting. And wait. I started filing my nails to pass the time.
SYLVIA:Twenty minutes went by, I thought, this is really rude keeping Randy and Tony waiting like this. So I went inside to tell Carmine we needed to go. But as soon as I stepped in the dome, I I saw him put a gun to a man's head and pull the trigger. No one saw me. And I I knew I couldn't let anyone know I had been there.
SYLVIA:So I tried to hold myself together the best I could. Carmine came out of the building a few minutes later as if nothing had happened. He got in the car, gave me a kiss, and apologized for keeping me weak. Then we headed for the restaurant. He reached over and took my hand, and we rode like that for a while.
SYLVIA:I was shaking like a leaf, but he didn't seem to notice. And I remember this tiny speck of blood had splattered onto his collar, barely detectable. But once I saw it, I couldn't take my eyes off it the rest of the night. I just kept staring at him thinking, I don't know this man at all.
RANDI:Randy. We waited on Sylvia and Carmine for an hour at the restaurant. I was really annoyed. I said to Tony, do they think we don't have anything better to do than sit around waiting on them? He said Carmine probably just got held up with some business.
RANDI:They'll be here. When Carmine and Sylvia finally showed up, neither of them apologized for making us wait so long. But to be fair, Sylvia really wasn't saying much of anything. She seemed distant. We went to the ladies room and I said, cheer up.
RANDI:It's your birthday.
SYLVIA:I wanted to tell Randy what I'd seen, but then I thought, why drag her into it? It felt safer for both of us if I kept it to myself. So I put on a smile, and I said, I'm sorry. I just got a lot on my mind. But you're right.
SYLVIA:Let's celebrate.
RANDI:Whatever was going on with her, she seemed to shake it off and the rest of the evening she was acting like her old self. Turned out to be a pretty good night, all things considered.
SYLVIA:Late that night, Carmine and I were laying in bed together. He was sleeping so peacefully, not a care in the world. Every time I closed my eyes, I saw that man dying in front of me. I laid there watching Carmine sleep. I was thinking, how in the world do you murder someone and sleep that peacefully?
SYLVIA:I thought this man is a monster. I've been living with a monster. There's no way I could stay with him after what I'd seen him do. I laid there planning my getaway till I was sure he was sound asleep. I had a fortune in jewelry by that point, and there was a safe in the den where Carmine kept a substantial amount of cash.
SYLVIA:I thought if I can take my jewelry and someone had money, I could start a new life somewhere else. When I was sure he was sleeping soundly, I eased myself out of bed and crept over to my closet to pack my things. I kept peeking out every few minutes to make sure he was still asleep. He never stir. Once I was packed, I got some money out of the safe.
SYLVIA:Just enough to get myself started somewhere else. I had just gotten to the front door when I heard Carmine say, where do you think you're going? What else could I say but the truth? It was the middle of the night. I was dressed, had my suitcases, and I was walking out the door.
SYLVIA:Obviously, I was leaving. So that's what I told him. I said, I'm sorry. I I don't wanna hurt you, but it just isn't working between us anymore. He looked completely stunned, and he said, where is this coming from?
SYLVIA:Haven't I been good to you? Haven't I given you everything? And you're just gonna sneak out on me in the middle of the night, not even say goodbye? I said, I I'm sorry. I I have to go.
SYLVIA:And I watched him turn into something else right in front of me. He looked crazed. That's the only way I can describe it. His eyes were blazing. He said, you got somebody else.
SYLVIA:You screwing around with somebody else? I said, no. He grabbed me by my throat, slammed me against the door. He got right in my face and said, don't you lie to me, Marie. I couldn't get a word out.
SYLVIA:I couldn't even get a breath. He was choking me. I pried his hand loose just enough to get the words out. I said, I swear. I swear.
SYLVIA:There's no one else. But there was no convincing him otherwise. He kept asking, who is he? And every time I told him there was no one else, he only got more upset. He said, you're nothing without me.
SYLVIA:You know that? You can't make it without me. What? You wanna go back to turning tricks? You like that better than being with me.
SYLVIA:Got to the point where I wasn't even responding. Everything I said to him was like throwing gasoline on a fire. He kept telling me I was nothing but a whore, and he should have known better than to pull a piece of trash like me out of the gutter. I thought, how long am I gonna stand here and let this man talk to me this way? I knew I couldn't stay with him.
SYLVIA:I couldn't stay with him after what I'd seen him do. I couldn't stay after the way he'd hurt me, after the way he talked to me. I was leaving. End of story. I was done.
SYLVIA:I kneed him in the groin and ran out the door. I didn't even grab my suitcase. I just ran. I only made it a few steps before he grabbed me by my hair and dragged me back inside. I was fighting him with everything I had.
SYLVIA:I just knew if he got me inside that apartment, I wasn't coming back out alive. Was screaming at the top of my lungs, hoping that someone in that building would come help me or at least call the police. No one ever came. I don't know what happened once he got me back inside that apartment. The next thing I remember, I was lying on the floor.
SYLVIA:Carman was standing over me. He was still out of breath from the struggle, still furious. I don't know what happened. All I knew was that it it hurt to move, hurt to breathe. Carmine was pacing over me, ranting.
SYLVIA:He told me he had connections all over the country, country, and he did. I knew he did. He said it didn't matter where I ran to because he had his eyes everywhere and he would find me. And he promised that when he did, he would kill me. I couldn't go to the police because he was in bed with the police too.
SYLVIA:When you have a man standing over you like that, especially one as intimidating as Carmine, and you're laying flat on your back with a cracked rib and God only knows what else. If you wanna make it out of the situation alive, you swallow whatever pride you have left and you tell that man exactly what he wants to hear. I said, baby, I'm so sorry. I love you so much. Please forgive me.
SYLVIA:I don't know what I was thinking. I sat up and the pain took my breath away. There was no way I could have gotten to my feet if Carmine hadn't pulled me up. I just kept saying over and over, I love you. I love you.
SYLVIA:I'm so sorry. Honestly, I I can't even remember all of what I was saying to him. I was throwing out whatever nonsense that came to mind, hoping something would get through and settle him down. I kissed him, and I told him again. I love you.
SYLVIA:I'm so sorry. And he said, say it again. So I did. I kissed him again. I kept kissing him until I felt his body relax, until he kissed me back.
SYLVIA:And then we went back to bed. The next day, I went to the drugstore to buy some heavier makeup to cover the bruises. I noticed my reflection in one of the mirrors, and it stopped me in my tracks. I just stood there, staring at a woman I didn't recognize. No, that's not true.
SYLVIA:I recognized her. I look just like my mother, and I never looked more like her than I did at that moment. I had a busted lip, a black eye, and the very same marks around my neck that mama used to have. I was even going by her name. I was living the very life I'd done everything in my power to avoid.
SYLVIA:The only difference was I had money. I'd always believed money was the key to happiness and security, but standing there, looking at my busted face in the mirror, money didn't save me.
GENTRY:Gentry. My first album was a disappointment. I had one single that did alright, but mostly it bombed. I got dropped from my label in '75 and that was the point where I thought, alright, maybe I am delusional. Maybe Carmine and the guys were right about me not having what it takes.
GENTRY:And I was tired of pouring every ounce of energy I had into something that wasn't panning out. So I cried uncle to the universe and I called Carmine. I said, alright, I give. Cut me in. He wired me some cash and a few days later I was on a plane headed for Vegas.
GENTRY:I don't know what I expected things to be like in Vegas, but I saw the way Carmine and his brothers lived. They were all living like kings. Every last one of them. I mean, I didn't expect to be on their level as soon as I rolled into town, But I figured he'd set me up with a modest pad and I'd ascend my throne shortly thereafter. After all, it was the family business and I was part of the family.
GENTRY:Well, it didn't work out like that. Not by a long shot. Carmine said I had to prove myself. Prove I could handle things at the ground level before he let me get my hands on anything important. I understood that to an extent.
GENTRY:But that jerk put me up in a roach motel so far off the strip I wasn't near any of the action. And he put me on a crew as low on the totem pole as you could get. I felt like he was setting me up to fail so him and the guys could have a good laugh at my expense. Well, I wasn't gonna fail. I made my mind up about that.
GENTRY:I said, alright, if you wanna haze me, then haze me. But I had my eye on one of those Doracio thrones.
SYLVIA:God, I'm lying. A different man after I tried to leave him. He was suspicious of everything I did, unbelievably jealous and possessive. He was convinced I was fooling around behind his back. He thought I was sleeping with Tony, which was absurd.
SYLVIA:Tony was like a little brother to me, but I couldn't convince Carmine of that. Every time I'd go around Tony, Carmine would be furious by the time we got home. Eventually, we'd stop going out with Tony and Randy altogether. I missed it, but it just wasn't worth the hassle. Carmine and I were building a new home in Rancho Bel Air.
SYLVIA:We went out there one afternoon to see the progress. Next thing you know, he's accusing me of sleeping with the contractor. It was just so completely irrational. But this is the sort of thing I dealt with all the time. It was it was exhausting.
RANDI:Randy. I felt like Sylvia was avoiding me. I'd call. She wouldn't answer. I'd leave a message.
RANDI:I wouldn't hear from her. When we'd make plans to do something, she'd cancel at the last minute. I finally got her to go shopping with me one afternoon. Tony and I were going to a friend's wedding, and I needed to find a dress. Sylvia had a great eye for fashion, so I always relied on her when I really wanted to look great.
RANDI:We were out at one of the shops, and I noticed she had a bruise on her jaw. She had tried to cover it up with some makeup but there was no hiding that thing. Oh, and her little finger was in a splint. I asked her about that and she said she broke her finger at the same time she fell and hit her jaw. She laughed about it and said she's just clumsy.
RANDI:I debated all afternoon whether or not to press her on it because I knew she was lying to me. Later, after we found the right dress, she drove me home. And as we pulled into the driveway, I said, Sylvia, is Carmine hurting you? And she said, what? No.
RANDI:No. He's not hurting me. I said, you got an awful lot of marks on you, and you were never clumsy before.
SYLVIA:I said, just don't. Okay? Everything's fine. I said,
RANDI:all right. But for the record, I don't believe you. And I got out of the car before I closed the door. I said, call me. Okay?
RANDI:If you need anything or you just wanna talk. I miss you. She said,
SYLVIA:okay.
RANDI:But I didn't hear from her again for another couple of months.
CREDITS:Higher Grounds is a Yellowbird media production written and produced by Kimberly Conway. Sylvia is voiced by Laura Jane Jones. Joanie by Cynthia Ergenbright. Roz by Janice Lynn Sykes. Randy by Stacy Lightman.
CREDITS:Gentry by Robert Fleet. Cat by Kimberly Conway. Announcer by Kyle Sanderson. Opening and closing narration by Roshani Lemaino. Sound design and mixing by Yellowbird Media.
CREDITS:Mixing and mastering by Rick Such. The theme song, Everything Changes by Laura Jane Jones, is available now on Apple Music and Spotify. Shows like Higher Grounds are made possible by the support of listeners like you. If you've enjoyed the show, we'd be so grateful if you could take a moment to rate and review us on your favorite podcast platform. Stay connected with Higher Grounds and be the first to know about upcoming Yellowbird productions by following us on social media and signing up for our newsletter at www.yellowbird.com.
CREDITS:Higher Grounds is a work of fiction. Names, characters, places, and incidents are either the product of the author's imagination or used fictitiously. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, events or locales is purely coincidental. This podcast is intended for entertainment purposes only.