Golf Rules We'd Keep, Kill, and Rewrite

What should never change about golf? And what should have been changed years ago?

With the U.S. Open at Shinnecock Hills around the corner, Matt and the Professor crack open the Rules of Golf and start drafting their own version of the game. From lost-ball penalties and green-reading books to arm-lock putters, divots, and pace of play, they each pick the rule changes they love, the ones they question, the ones they'd like to see, and the ones they hope survive forever.

What starts as a conversation about golf's rulebook quickly becomes something bigger: a debate about fairness, skill, technology, tradition, and what the game is actually trying to reward.

What the conversation dives into:

• Why the 2019 Rules modernization may have been one of the most important pace-of-play initiatives in modern golf
• The forgotten experiments with out-of-bounds penalties, including eras when stroke-and-distance didn't exist
• Whether arm-lock putters, oversized grips, and modern equipment have drifted too far from the spirit of the game
• The case for enforcing pace of play as a competitive skill, not just a courtesy
• Why "play it as it lies" remains one of golf's most important ideas, even when your ball is sitting in a divot
• The original 1744 Rules of Golf, "watery filth," and the strange rulebook debates that shaped the game we play today

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Chapters

0:00 - Intro
 09:54 - Rule Changes We Love
 12:34 - The 14-club limit and respecting the caddie
 14:34 - Pace of play, red penalty areas, and 2019's biggest wins
 17:21 - Flagsticks, green-reading books, and modern putting
 20:28 - Rule Changes We Hate
 21:32 - Touching the line of play on the green
 22:48 - The case against stroke-and-distance penalties
 27:59 - Would "distance only" make golf more fun?
 28:20 - Rule Changes We'd Like to See
 29:24 - Arm-lock putters, equipment limits, and putting skill
 33:29 - Driver heads, shaft length, and equipment regulation
 34:33 - Bringing back old rules and enforcing pace of play
 40:33 - Rules We'd Never Change
 41:15 - Why players should keep each other's score
 42:08 - Play it as it lies and the divot debate
 45:34 - The original Rules of Golf and playing your own ball
 49:08 - Double hits, dropping from the knee, and modern quirks

What is The Bag Drop?

The Bag Drop features weekly stories from the culture, community and characters shaping golf today. Produced by NewClub Golf Society, each episode blends authenticity and expert insights for passionate golfers at all levels. Special guests from clubs, courses and every corner of the changing landscape join us for thoughtful, in‑depth discussions on all things golf.

What is NewClub?

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the premier private golf society in the United States. It blends the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, as well as signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is revolutionizing golf membership, making the game more meaningful for those who love it.

Creators and Guests

Host

Matt Considine

Founder of NewClub and our resident feel player. Matt’s junior golf career led him to the University of Akron where he met our co-host. During his junior year, Matt Studied abroad in Ireland and discovered golf societies. Subsequent trips to Scotland fed his passion for the history, ideals, and culture of accessible, affordable, and sustainable golf, a concept he would later bring to the U.S. with NewClub. Known for his interviewing style, quick wit, and compelling storytelling, Matt brings thoughtful, reflective conversations to The Bag Drop. His professional journey before NewClub included multiple leadership positions in growth-stage startups, where he managed teams responsible for more than $250 million in revenue. Matt actively gives back to the game as a Board Member of the First Tee of Akron and past chair of the Evans Scholar Foundation. Proudly based in his hometown of Akron, Ohio, Matt finds inspiration in family life with his wife, their three children, and their golf dog, Gypsy.

Host

The Professor

NewClub's Chief Ambassador and every golf sicko's favorite educator. Kevin is a thoughtful and deeply curious host. His studied, constructivist approach adds intellectual enrichment and balance to the show. As a professor of Math Education at the University of Georgia, Kevin's background in applied mathematics and cognitive psychology uniquely informs his insights on golf strategy and performance. Originally from Ohio, Kevin was a Division I collegiate golfer at the University of Akron, where his passion for understanding mathematical thinking began. After earning his doctorate from Arizona State University, he combined his analytical expertise with his love for golf by co-founding Golf Blueprint, an organization aimed at helping golfers optimize their games through data-driven strategies. Kevin enjoys balancing deep philosophical discussions with simple pleasures, such as indulging his sweet tooth, cheering on college football, and spending relaxed evenings with his friends, his wife, and their beloved dog, Nole.

What is The Bag Drop: Untold Stories in Golf?

Weekly stories from the communities and characters shaping the game. The Bag Drop blends thoughtful, honest perspectives of Matt Considine (Founder of NewClub) and Dr. Kevin Moore ("The Professor") with expert insights for passionate golfers at every level. Produced by NewClub and supported by our members, each episode welcomes guests from clubs, courses, and the lesser-known corners of the golf world for thoughtful discussions on all things golf and life.

Founded in 2017, NewClub is the first of its kind golf society in the United States; blending the community and access of a private club with the variety and affordability more typical of public golf. Members enjoy thousands of reserved tee times, competitions, and events at exceptional partner courses across our local chapters, along with signature trips and exclusive perks. NewClub is on a mission to revolutionize golf membership, making the game more meaningful for everyone who loves it.

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Website: https://www.newclub.golf

Matt Considine (00:03.782)
Welcome to the Bag Drop, Untold Stories in Golf. I'm your host, Matt Considine here with my co host, the Professor. Doctor, good morning. How are you?

The Professor (00:14.744)
Doing great. Summer is here. Our rainy season that we have for a little bit is gone. I mean sunshine is out. Golf is to be had. Doors off the Bronco, top off the Bronco. We are ready to sweat and ready to be in the sunshine.

Matt Considine (00:28.798)
Did I the the professor sends me dard near sexual photos of his Bronco, his new car, that he him and his wife really

The Professor (00:40.056)
Claire's Claire's new car, let's be clear. This is this is Brit this is Brit this is Brittany. This is Cl this is Claire's car. She will be upset if we don't make sure that's on the on the record.

Matt Considine (00:42.802)
I I it's like your baby. I get it. I send pictures of my kid. You send pictures. It is Claire's baby.

Matt Considine (00:51.228)
It is a summertime vehicle though, man. It's like you look at somebody driving around that thing, you're like, they're loving life. Wall doors are off, tops down. but did I catch Ferrari hubcaps in the last picture? Is that possible? Did you guys swap out?

The Professor (01:03.182)
The the the the Bronco does look a little bit like a Ferrari logo. I never thought about that till right now. except that except that's a little more the Broncos a little more trustworthy than Team Ferrari overall, I would say.

Matt Considine (01:11.495)
I I zoomed in, I couldn't make it out.

Matt Considine (01:17.162)
I was gonna say that is another level of fandom. we got a fun s episode today. The professor and I are back. a lot of cooking in the background here at the Bagdrop. So everyone will figure out why soon. But we got the US Open coming up, Professor Shinnikok. Have you played Shinnicok? You ever been up there?

The Professor (01:35.672)
I ne I know I have not. would love to. I've never done anything up on the Long Island stretch. You know, that's a future a future me problem.

Matt Considine (01:42.311)
I'm I'm I'm white I'm I'm light and white. I'm light on Long Island, but also very white. but I gotta get there too. I mean, just obviously incredible world class golf. good place to stage a US Open. Looking forward to that. But we were Kevin and I were were talking USGA, we were talking rules of golf, and we thought we'd have a fun one today on the show where we're gonna run through

The Professor (01:45.838)
Long Island also very white.

Matt Considine (02:11.953)
Some rule changes, some modern, some maybe not. And and we thought we'd figure try to find for each of us a rule change that we love, a rule change that we hate or maybe question, a rule change that we want to see in the game, and another that we hope never changes for the game. So I hope you did your homework, Professor. I I got mine. It'll be a fun, fun way to cut it up.

The Professor (02:37.102)
Yeah, I threw some together pretty quick. This is definitely a little bit off the cuff episode, but those typically end up being the most fun episodes, I w I would say.

Matt Considine (02:44.445)
They truly are. Any profontiations for us? Any anything in the factual realm, professor, you wanted to enlighten us with?

The Professor (02:52.77)
Yeah, quick one. I mean, I've been dabbling on Twitter a bit a bit more now that it's summer, just checking in, see what everybody's up to and trying to get ins inspiration from there. great place, great source for knowledge. You know, a lot of statistics get thrown around on on on Twitter, you know, go check out Datagolf, go check out Arcos, those sorts of things for that. do want to caution everybody out there though, and anything that uses averages, be careful. Averages actually don't tell you a whole lot. So when you see someone spouting off averages, as if we should just have this rich

Grand conclusion from it, probably not a trustworthy source in that way. And I'll give two quick reasons, there's tons of reasons why they're weak in their inferential potential. but I'll give two quick ones why. One, often you'll see them be like, in the last however many years this has happened, hence conclude this. Well, unless the person actually poses why that's a relevant number of years and what looking at that year span actually enables you to answer.

It's not really worthwhile. Like, why choose 20 years? What about 25 years? What about 15 years? What about 10 years? What's the question we're even trying to pursue and try to see what's going on? you need you need to articulate that. And so often we you do when you're dealing with averages, because they are we a pretty weak statistic. You might look at five years, ten years, fifteen years, twenty years, twenty-five years, thirty years, and look for changes in average change over that time, and then that might paint a picture of something that went on at some point. the other one is averages.

You got an infinite number of data structures that could give the same average, right? So if you think about the variance of your data, the distribution of it. let's take golf for instance, right? So a whole bunch of new people come in the golf. Well, that's going to create probably it's gonna whatever statistic statistic you're tracking, that's gonna create a whole bunch of people at that one. Well, if you also had a whole bunch of people change somewhere else, they might wash each other out.

Matt Considine (04:44.956)
Mm. Yeah.

The Professor (04:45.254)
because you had all these new people come in that put a whole bunch of, you know, let's say it's I think distance is a very popular one. All these new people come in, they might be collected around a certain distance, let's say lower than the typical average, that brings the average down. But also if you had gains at the top end, that might balance that out. So the average looks like it stays the same, but the player demographics change or the the variance within the distribution of their statistics changes. then there are, you know, an infinite number of data collections that will produce the same average.

Matt Considine (05:08.764)
Mm.

The Professor (05:14.616)
So they say go ahead.

Matt Considine (05:14.745)
I would ch this is not an area I challenge the professor on ever. I I take what you're telling me with complete trust because your your specialty in it. are you a fan of cohorts? Are cohorts important? Like with th those groups that move together and averages within a cohort?

The Professor (05:26.562)
Yeah. So

The Professor (05:34.529)
Yeah, so like you can it's called like d data disaggregation in terms of how you gr subgroup data, right? So let's say you take every golfer that's playing right now and you there's a statistic statistic you're interested in, you aggregate that all together and say, Hey, here's the average. Again, averages are useful, but typically you use them to ask a further question, like, you see an observation in the average, change or not change, and you say, Okay, why might that be? What other statistics I look at to test hypotheses? And definitely disaggregating in terms of cohorting, there's

Different terms you can do. Binning is a popular just standard term, where you then you look at how do we group that data around group the different sorry populations into subpopulations to then answer a question. This is actually the famous, a good great example, the wine, two glasses of wine being healthy. The reason that showed up was a study that looked at all the population together and they were that was the population that was the most healthy.

But what it ignored was it did not separate separate out the non-drinkers. It did not separate separate out recovering alcoholics from non-drinkers. So if you pulled that out and looked at just non-drinkers who never drank, they were by far the healthiest cohort. By far the healthiest cohort. And the two glasses of wine being healthy for you or one to two glasses a night, that was only influenced by recovering alcoholics and for and alcoholics being included.

Matt Considine (06:36.902)
Mm.

Matt Considine (06:45.243)
Yeah, it's like okay.

The Professor (06:58.551)
Within the non drinkers.

Matt Considine (06:59.856)
Sounds like something a a scientist at the alcohol lobby or whatever their name is would would be like, yeah, that's that's all good. well, that's I had a listener ask me recently, like, hey, what what what's the f the professor's fact of the day? Where'd that come from? I said, listen, our show is all about curiosity and learning. It's literally the journey of two knuckleheads trying to learn about the world through golf together.

The Professor (07:03.478)
Exactly right. Yeah, that's right. That's right. So

Matt Considine (07:28.044)
Even if we have an episode that's a complete miss, our hope is that you take away something from the professor's fact of the day because they're always interesting. There's I I never don't learn something, Professor. So thank you, man. thanks as well to our friends at Titleist. They're out, they're live, I've seen them already in a number of bags, and that's the Titleist GTS Metalwoods, the GTS family. I got fitted, I was in a

The Professor (07:52.27)
Oof.

Matt Considine (07:57.304)
G three now, GT, I was in the G T three, excuse me, and GTS four now. I'm loving the results. I just played my a Monday night in my league that I ha I've missed for a number of weeks. And you know, you play the it's the same nine whole cores, same T. So usually you're looking at the same spot for balls, Professor. I don't know if I was extra juiced up last night or it is the fresh lineup of GTS in my bag, but I was looking in a different vicinity all day.

Love just soaring past my buddy Jay Collin and and being back where I belong right in front of him good ten, fifteen yards. It is it's remarkable to me that they have have made this jump at Titleist again. And I am I'm all in. I I love my GTS Metal Woods. I'm I'm got a seven in the bag, four in the bag. It's just a new world with my with their fitting process. It's really taught me a lot. but thanks to our friends at Title List for their continued support of the show.

You can go out on tightless dot com. You can find a fitter right now. Those guys are exceptionally busy, but you can get fit for their metal woods at a facility near you.

The Professor (09:04.51)
give an extra shout out on the seven wood. You know, when I did my fitting, I said I'm like, I got this the twelfth hold Athens Country Club, two hundred and thirty-five yards, you know, plays maybe a yard or two downhill. Long part three, I'm like, I need a club that gets it up in the air and drops it vertically about two thirty two to two thirty five. I've played that hole four times now, since I got my seven in the bag. I've hit the center the green all four times. All easy threes. That's like a full stroke gained. Just and it's like

Matt Considine (09:29.178)
Yeah. It's so it looking down at it is such a confidence boost to see that loft and then what it it does, you know, how it carries it, it's just stable. That's the word I look at. Like it's so stable for me. shout out Tidalist. All right, let's get on to the show. All right, Professor, who's gonna kick us off? we're gonna we got love.

The Professor (09:34.516)
yeah.

The Professor (09:44.247)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (09:54.851)
Rule changes we love, rule changes we hate, rule changes we want, and tr rule changes we never want to see. Do we just go in that order?

The Professor (10:03.414)
I think we just go in that order. what the with the rule change will rule changes I love. all right, so context for listeners. We've we've been diving in the rules, you know, the original 13 rules, their history and all that. there'll be more on that later in a future episode. So stick around if you actually want the the detailed description of where the rules came for. the original rules came from and what they are. We're not gonna cover that today. And in that journey.

Matt Considine (10:05.037)
I'd like you to start us 'cause I know we're gonna overlap on a few of these is my guess.

The Professor (10:32.962)
We'd start thinking, man, rules of golf are crazy. Like if you if you actually think about what they've become and where they're at now, go pick up your your rule book, start reading and be like, Hey man, what did someone do that we had to put that rule into place? You can imagine how many of these roles just have resulted cause some, you know, tomfoolery that was going on in the golf course.

Matt Considine (10:50.179)
I got a I don't know about you, but I got a little overwhelmed by the amount of rule changes through the years. And and so I I just with the sake of time, obviously these short episodes are supposed to be just conversational. I wasn't gonna go, you know, do hours of of of it. So I actually just went back to twenty nineteen, professor. I I maybe I know because but but yeah, it was a busy year. It was the it was the modern modernization of

The Professor (10:55.322)
it's yeah, it's yeah.

The Professor (11:10.502)
without That was a busy year. Busy, busy year for

Matt Considine (11:18.785)
Of the rules of golf for the USJ and RNA that had, you know, these these sweeping changes across the board, simplifying language, removing different things. So I think a lot of mine came from there. I got maybe one or two more recent ones. And then I got some shout outs to those original 13 articles that you mentioned. But where where did you fall just in looking at these? Did you get other dates as well?

The Professor (11:46.367)
Yeah, I went back all the way to the s 1700s, 1800s, some of the things were going on there. I actually don't know if any of them made my final change, but the really the mid-1900s in golf where you could tell they the where they were formalizing everything, trying to standardize everything. And you look at some of the experiments that I wasn't aware of until we did this research. that's gonna show up for me a few times. but in terms I'll start with a pretty easy one on Rule Change of Love. Nothing super exciting here.

Matt Considine (11:51.149)
I figured you would.

Matt Considine (12:10.627)
So this is what you love. You start with

The Professor (12:11.822)
What what I love, I do have an honorable mention to the lost ball search time, five to three minutes, keep pace of play moving forward. Why do we need five minutes? You know, three minutes is enough. There's no no need to search more than that. Keep it moving. It's your fault 'cause you hit it out hit it out of play.

Matt Considine (12:27.064)
We're we're gonna bastardize our rules here of of one rule change per category by the honorable mention category, aren't we? I I I had a feeling that was coming.

The Professor (12:34.246)
that's I had to get to do it. all right, nineteen thirties, we moved to the fourteen club limit. You know, at the time some people were carrying up to thirty clubs in their bag, right? And you think of like is in the nineteen thirties, I think, is when they moved to the fourteen I didn't take copious notes here in terms of years, kind of loose loose notes. correct us if it's wrong. But four we moved to fourteen clubs. Respect your caddies, man. Can you just imagine the caddies out there?

Matt Considine (12:47.159)
That's awesome. What year did you say? I'm sorry, you say that Yeah, yeah, I f okay.

The Professor (13:03.33)
I'll keep the person nameless, had the caddy in the senior PGA one year through the practice rounds. My player had twenty four clubs in the bag and fourteen golf balls in the bag. This person was not gonna make the cut ever. It was just sort of in their twilight years, had to lug that around. I can't imagine with 30 clubs with the old wooden shafts and everything. So going to the 14 club, you they could have gotten a little bit more even, you know, down to 10 to 12, especially in today's world. But love that role love that rule change.

Matt Considine (13:29.591)
You know, that that that reminds me

The Professor (13:31.628)
This is the maximum number of tools in your bag.

Matt Considine (13:33.816)
That reminds me of a story I stumbled on about FDR. So that that would have been around the time he was president. He was a big golfer. And you remember we we discovered some incredible golf stories about FDR. But one of them was he was a popular player for the caddies, and I think it was like Chevy Chase or one of those DC clubs, because i everybody was carrying 30 clubs around and FDR only had like five. He just didn't care to hit anything else.

The Professor (13:56.44)
Heck yeah.

I think it was when I caddied at Porter's Country Club, shout out to Melinda LaRose, great player up there. I believe I remember this right. I think she only carried twelve clubs. and three golf balls hit dead down the center, two forty every time, hit about sixteen greens around, which shoot the cleanest seventy-three. If I could read putts for her, she would have been better. but yeah, cleanest thing. Yeah, light bag, keep it light, keep it moving. keep the decision making more simple. No reason to fret over, you know.

Matt Considine (14:08.726)
Amazing.

Matt Considine (14:21.964)
That's cool.

The Professor (14:27.374)
thirty clubs in the bag and which one you're gonna use.

Matt Considine (14:30.54)
So all right, that's your love is

The Professor (14:32.93)
That's my love. That's my love.

Matt Considine (14:34.613)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think well we'll get to maybe something we want to see change. There's there's some I I found myself reading these old rule changes and thinking, that's keep going, you know. So maybe that's one where you keep going with, but I I won't step on your toes there. I'm gonna cheat our format already. USGA would call, yeah, this is this is a penalty, stroke and distance, because I I was reading the twenty nineteen changes again and I think we did a podcast when those came out.

The Professor (14:52.687)
already bending rules.

Matt Considine (15:02.775)
I mean, New Club was was in Chicago. We were humming along, we were having competition, but what my and I'm just relating this to my real world experience of the time and what these rule changes really did, we would get pushback from both public courses and private clubs alike if our pace was off. And and I think the reason for that was what we were asking for, right? We're asking to play amongst other member groups at private clubs at that time. We were asking to play

The Professor (15:23.085)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (15:31.095)
The earliest possible tea times at the public courses. And so if you're gonna do that, what matters most to the operators of those facilities? Pace of play. Yeah. So we implemented before the rule changes, I had to go back and look at the emails of when did I announce that this is the local rules of New Club Golf Society? They adapted after, like we changed the language after this 2019 modernization of the USGA rules, but

The Professor (15:40.376)
Face. Don't hold up my members.

Matt Considine (15:59.58)
I was already on the hunt, and maybe I knew that they were already discussing this, but our changes almost mirror exactly the anything that related to pace of play. And so I j I'm gonna group mine together for what I loved about the USGA rule changes was in 2019, they expanded the use of red penalty areas as a local rule. You could do that wherever. A new club does that for all out of bounds. You never read T. They wrote in pace of play specifically under five.

The Professor (16:17.614)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (16:29.087)
dot six, five dash six, rule five assists, where they they recommended that they finally recommended that you take less than forty seconds to hit your shot and they actually call out ready golf and you should be encouraged to play ready golf particularly in stroke play so so we do that that's our third and last rule and then the maximum score local rule so 21 dot two that that changed the handicapping

The Professor (16:53.324)
Love the love the maximum.

Matt Considine (16:56.276)
you know, necessity of holding putts and everything beyond a max net double bogey, depending on your handicapped here. That was huge. And and we always kind of said, okay, we got to do that. We're a match play cub. If you're, you know, just scoop it for seven or eight if your guy is putting for a four. So that those are my favorites. honorable mention is the flag stick, leaving the flag stick in. I well

The Professor (17:01.538)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (17:21.695)
It might come up on another list, I had a feeling, but I I just think for pace to play some sometimes. I it's funny how that's evolved. I was so for it for pace. I was like, wow, yeah, all the holding of the flag stick and who takes out and who replaces it. Man, I bet you that'll save a few, maybe a minute every hole. It does it did it really in practice, I think. And and then it's funny enough, I loved putting with the flag stick in initially, and I would kind of laugh at others that.

to now I'm back. I have to have it out. I don't know what flipped, but I have to take it out. What about you?

The Professor (17:58.231)
Okay, I you know, I've never had super strong opinions because it's like there's no logical argument why it should be one way or the other, in my opinion. Other internments I could see someone make an argument when you're putting using it as an advantage, but it also is kind of a disadvantage because it can knock putts out that we're gonna go in. I've just stayed a putting out person because I see it best with it out. Like I think that's just cause I've always been, you know, that's how I grew up with it. And so when it's in and just the hole looks smaller than me. you know, I'm not like I like concentrating on a

piece of the hole, like where my ball's gonna go in, you know, shout out Chris Wilson and some of his thing, you know, so if I was a look at the center of the cup thing, I could see the pin being an advantage 'cause then I could focus in on it, but I don't like to focus in on that, like to just see when puck goes in. So I'm I'm a pu I'm a pin out guy.

Matt Considine (18:41.012)
Yeah. Yeah, I that's actually interesting because I I think as our friend Chris Wilson said on this podcast, you're either a cram putter, you know, back of the cup or you're a die in die putted in. I probably I bet you was experimenting with that cram because I was visualizing hitting the actual flagstick, you know, the almost center instead of back of the cup.

The Professor (19:02.872)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (19:06.046)
Which w if you're a die putter, it shouldn't really be the visual you see, right? It should be that where is that entry point into the cup dying over that hole. So that's a great one. All right. That was the loves. can I squeeze in one more honorable mention? Twenty twenty three, or my most this is my most modern one, the green reading materials. Clarification on four dash three one. Love that one and I I know my f

The Professor (19:20.462)
What you

The Professor (19:27.214)
I didn't even think about that. Love that one.

Matt Considine (19:34.569)
friends at Stroka Golf and the others did not, but I just feel like it is such a skill set. Just what we're talking about with reading, you know, where that ball's dying in and pace of play. When I started playing in amateurs under this era, which was in the C D G A events, I couldn't believe it, man. Every kid had one of these books, every kid, every putt, we're talking three footers pulling out their green reading book. It slowed things down. So I was I was thankful, grateful that they changed that one too.

The Professor (20:04.076)
Yeah, I think it's a yeah, I nominated as my number one rule change I love, but this 'cause I do love technology and like seeing what it does and like I love I love that technology. It's amazing what it can do, but it is one of those cases where I think technology degrades the game, right? It's introduction there and what it can do. Just chips away aspects of the game that, you know, make the game what it is. And I th I think that's a perfect one. All right. Well you you you kicking off rule change you hate.

Matt Considine (20:28.252)
All right. What

Matt Considine (20:32.425)
Rule change I hate. Now this is hate's a strong word, as my wife would say, and we probably shouldn't be using that. I would I will phrase it as one that I question. and I think

The Professor (20:37.731)
Yeah.

Matt Considine (20:49.982)
I had a couple contenders here, but I'm gonna go with rule thirteen-one C. Even in the modernization, I do appreciate that it was a bunch of attorneys that always wrote these rules and they kept, you know, the legal framework for thirteen dash one C, you know?

The Professor (21:04.28)
That's and they reference the other ones. Yeah, it's hilarious.

Matt Considine (21:07.623)
Yeah, yeah. I it's it's cleaner, it's c clearer, but my one that I've always questioned ever since is again out of the twenty t nineteen modernization, and it's touching the line of play on the putting green. Touching the line of play on the putting green, it no longer carries a penalty, so as long as the act does not improve conditions for the stroke professor.

The Professor (21:21.91)
Mm.

Mm, mm.

The Professor (21:31.885)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (21:32.145)
Now, how could you improve conditions for the stroke or the ball rolling? You know, th I think this one opened the door to what I it's a tough line, but you know, people fixing spike marks, people fixing animal tracks or a a stick that, you know, made a dent on the grain. And then there's just guys that are like, well, they look like they're on a curling team out there,

Almost almost making themselves a little track down there to the hole. particularly on short putts. I've started to see that more on the television. Guys that have that testy three, four footer man, y in about ten seconds, you can make yourself a nice little ch chunnel to the to the cup.

The Professor (22:20.716)
It looks like like taking those mallet putters and looks like they're tamping, you know, their espresso beans in the morning with sort of the way they're tapping their tapping to the hole. Yeah, I'm I cosign on that one. Definitely, definitely co-sign on that one. related to that, bunker loose impediments will be my honor honorable mention in this category. I think bunker bunkers are a hazard, right? Yeah, they might not be kept well at

Matt Considine (22:30.216)
So that's mine.

Matt Considine (22:43.464)
For one U question.

The Professor (22:48.514)
Certain golf courses and that's the whole point. Like why should the bunkers be manicured perfectly? You shouldn't be guaranteed a good lie. This does get at the stroke play versus match play propensity in the United States that, you know, why should a couple rocks in a bunker ruin my great round and then make a triple where you wouldn't have that concern in match play? It's like I'm gonna probably lose this hole and I'll move on. That's only one point I'm losing. That's my honorable mention. The other one I'm gonna go with so

Reading through the rule change, I didn't realize the out-of-bounds experiments that occurred. So, for example, in the 40s, the US went to just distance only. The RNA at the time, this was for out of bounds, unplayable, or lost ball. They just had distance, no stroke edition on top of it. Yeah. 1952 with the unified rule book, you know, back to stroke and distance in the 1960s, they played with distance only, with no penalty.

Matt Considine (23:28.379)
No stroke, just distance. Ooh, I could get on board with that.

The Professor (23:40.479)
In no provisionals during this time as well, right? So, like you would have to make that long walk back. you know, we obviously have the new one that's the just dropout on the fairway, which I'm pro for in pace of play. But overall, I kind of wish they would have just I think distance only is a really good penalty. That it's just a you know, lost ball or you know, out of bounds.

Matt Considine (24:02.567)
Yeah.

The Professor (24:06.69)
Just go distance only, that's a significant penalty. Make you replay the T shot again. Because I don't like just dropping it out and saying or you could have the option, take the stroke in distance and you get the drop out in the fairway, or take distance only and go back and hit the T ball. So depending on what the situation was, what you were trying to do. You know, if you're trying to drive the green jacked out of bounds, maybe you want to choose one thing over the other. But yeah, the stroke and distance I think is it's it's a severe penalty, which I don't have a problem with that. It's just I think

The severeness of it sometimes limits options off the T, where maybe there'd be a little bit more variety in our decision making if it was only a distance penalty without a balance that, you know, people would push a little bit more. Yeah.

Matt Considine (24:46.301)
I like that. I wasn't aware of that, that it was stro distance only. And one reason I like that is in the context of you running competitions for new club these last nine years, I've always seen it play out fairly well that are no rete policy, basically no distance, no stroke and distance, all red penalty areas throughout, essentially. That it

The Professor (25:12.43)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (25:16.145)
doesn't drastically change the outcome of a match, but it it keeps there's always a heroic moment off of that. And yeah, somebody that loses that hole because the guy that pumped it out of bounds just hit one threw the trees, wrapped it around and it sat next to the hole, he's not thrilled because the rules of golf actually would have had him stroking distance. But it it it in the context of match play, it just keeps it a little bit tighter.

The Professor (25:43.438)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (25:43.684)
And I've always seen that be more fun than less fun, right? If fun is the objective, it makes a match more interesting. but I have never considered it for distance only. You would have the same effect really, without that one stroke, and you just have to retee and you're now have that penalty of yeah.

The Professor (26:00.239)
So you still have to you have to execute the T shot, right? That's still that's still a thing, which I like. And I wonder how much this one has to do, you know, when out of bounds is just if it's off property. So out of bounds very limited in Scotland. in some the original courses that are all internal golf courses, for example, My Place Athens Country Club. So there, yeah, you're going off property. I can see the argument for a stroke and distance.

but with all the golf courses be built being built through housing developments and out of balance down both sides or one side through most of the holes, I think distance only is a a good rule to allow for a little bit more aggressive play or a little bit more decision making off the tee and not taking the out of balance into account where s with stroke and distance. I mean, you have to take it into account significantly 'cause of how strong of a penalty that is.

Matt Considine (26:45.424)
What if what if it was because I remembered even prior to the twenty nineteen modification modernization, they they in included regen reasonable judgment in a number of of different cases, which is probably dicey when it comes to interpretation of, you know, guidelines and and rules and policies. But what if it was like, hey man, I know you hit that out about, but but reasonable judgment here?

The Professor (26:59.182)
Yeah, that's

Matt Considine (27:13.562)
That was off the planet. You gotta take a stroke with your distance, I'm sorry. Versus the one that like hits the tree and just goes out. You're like, All right, all right, just distance, man. You don't need the stroke. Yeah. Yeah.

The Professor (27:15.84)
Ha ha.

The Professor (27:21.954)
Yes, so if it so if it hits something inbounds and then goes out of bounds, different penalty versus I could just see the the fights and the going the replay we'd be having on this. We would just that's that's

Matt Considine (27:29.539)
Yeah. Yeah, dude, you didn't you didn't touch earth on that swing. That is so far right. I'm sorry. You gotta take the stroke. you know, that that did remind me of number eight from the original articles, Professor. If you lose your ball, go back to the spot where you struck last and drop another ball and allow your adversary a stroke. So just taking that a step further, if you are playing in match play, how cool would that be? You pump one out of bounds.

The Professor (27:38.667)
The Professor (27:51.074)
Yep. The the match play version.

Matt Considine (27:59.181)
You get the distance penalty, but now your part or your opponent lays zero in the fairway. That's it that's interesting.

The Professor (28:05.57)
Mm-hmm.

The Professor (28:09.822)
All right. No, I don't think we're gonna see that one. Alright, what are we on to? Something we wanna see? Is that where we're at?

Matt Considine (28:10.0)
Probably well, we're probably not gonna see that one change. I don't I don't think it's gonna go back to the adversary thing. something we wanna see. Yeah.

The Professor (28:20.11)
D you kick it off.

Matt Considine (28:22.927)
All right. you know, those that know me know that I've been an arm bar guy now for gosh, I don't know, six, seven years. it came from a dark place initially. it wasn't a crazy extension for me because I've always been flat left wrist and I wanted that ball forward and so my the the I really always had a perpendicular

The Professor (28:45.614)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (28:51.439)
or I'm sorry, parallel to the shaft, perpendicular to the club face with my left arm. So when I put a shaft against it, it didn't feel all that different. So I just kind of stuck with it and it it comes and goes out of the bag, but mm, it's it's staying for for now. They did away with anchoring in twenty sixteen, and that anchoring was primarily belly. It was a result of I mean it was Webb Simpson. Do we can we blame him for his US open win out in what was that, Olympic club?

The Professor (29:09.848)
That's that's right.

The Professor (29:15.608)
Billy just

The Professor (29:19.48)
That that might have been, yeah, bet definitely one of the root causes. Anybody fixing it to their belly or their their chest. Mm hmm.

Matt Considine (29:24.677)
Ke Keegan Bradley won the PJ Championship with the belly putter. I don't know. I know a lot of seniors were winning with the belly putter. So VJ, VJ won with the belly putter. And so they ain't they they banned that. And I and I I I'm gonna broaden out this for what I'd want to see changed. I just wanna see size limits tighten from where they are. And so we talk about rolling back the ball all the frickin' time, but I actually wanna see it.

The Professor (29:48.408)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (29:54.36)
d two things. I want to see a a putter length. You know, I don't know how you do it, but may maybe just take the you know, if you got Wimbinana is is ends up being on the PGA tour someday, I I don't know what putter length he would require versus Zach Johnson, but like some rule around the putter length 'cause I I I think it it goes to me about the game is hard.

The Professor (29:57.665)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (30:23.247)
That's a feature, not a bug. And putting, I feel like that we we chase so much in putting and technology and the conditioning of our putting surfaces that I think we're overcomplicating something that is inherently has so many uncontrollables. Like we're trying to control everything that and and I just think it's it's on the governing bodies to l limit that so that skill rises to the top. So if we all were required to to roll

The Professor (30:25.09)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (30:51.618)
you know the eighty eight two from Wilson, that that era of putter, without all the face balance, torque balance, fat shaft, huge grip, arm bar, sternum deals. I I think golf would would react to that in in kind of a common sense, cool way that makes greens fun and interesting, makes three putts like a little bit more acceptable in in in

reality and and that might be a healthier version. So that that was my want to say, which is a total hey, everyone that says I'm biased, I I again, I'm the arm bar guy. So y they would be ripping the arm bar out of my hands, but I would willfully do it just 'cause I think it would be better for the game.

The Professor (31:34.903)
Yeah, I I'll co-sign on that. I think the rules are easy to change in that one. Like you said, maximum putter length, but you could also define it based on the each person. Like it has to be, you know, two inches below your belly button or whatever is the maximum length of your putter. They could easily put a maximum grip size on it, right? Like what is the maximum length of the grip that can be on it? And then the easy one is it can't be touching any part of you other than your hands. so that's how you get rid of anything that's going along the arm bar.

These are all easy roles. Again, I don't know why the governing bodies chose the ball the thing to be attacked as they attempt to, you know, do some regulations. there's so many more easier targets and this is one of them that they they could have done to sort of bring back, as you mentioned, skill into it.

Matt Considine (32:16.141)
I and I didn't think about, you know, drivers. They they increased the length of a driver, didn't they? At some point. You were permitted to go to from forty it was forty six and they went to like forty eight, didn't they?

The Professor (32:24.324)
I forget the mo yeah.

The Professor (32:29.96)
Did they do that in the most recent change? I always forget which direction they won they went with it. Yeah.

Matt Considine (32:33.336)
I think they did 'cause, you know, I I I know a lot of guys didn't change at the highest levels. I know Jordan Speith this year went to a forty six and a half. I remember that from title list, but yeah, I think that was a a change. So I guess I'd love to know if there if you are a seven foot golfer out there and you have gripes with the forty eight inch driver length or whatever, I I'd love to hear their perspective. 'Cause 'cause there's no other

The Professor (32:44.214)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (33:02.113)
requirement of a length other than, you know, like you said, it's not based on your it it probably should be based on your person, but may maybe 48's just, you know, long enough where it it encompasses those guys. But just an honorable mention as well to this like wanna see changed driver head. Driver head. I I keep I I had a really fun time going through my

The Professor (33:22.306)
Yeah, regulation change, yeah.

Matt Considine (33:29.037)
God bless my father. He doesn't hoard anything except golf clubs and this garage is a problem, Professor. And we were going, I pulled out every driver I've ever hit and majority titleists through all the years, which is really cool to see because titles has stayed true to a particular look, with very few exceptions. But I laid out all those drivers and man, the club had w we got this just

a frying pan of a size now with four sixty C Cs and I know it's been that way for a while, but I I wanna see that also be something smaller. To really just again shrink the the sweet spot, kind of condense what i the the parameters of those incredible engineers have to work with. The the restriction I think we'll see some cool innovation out of that. But I yeah, I just think the club head got too big.

The Professor (34:19.5)
Yeah, club ed size and T length, right? If we want more variance at the especially at the professional level, I think at a professional level that change change needs to be made. what do I want to see? What change you know, what would I like to see? I kind of brought this as a what I'd like to see bring back. Some of the rules are so trippy out there. Like when they were first, what did we do with the water hazard? You had in St. Andrews, you throw the ball at least six yards behind the hazard. You had at Bruntsfield, you threw the ball at

Over the head with no provision on how far. That sound seems kind of fun. You know, St. Andrews, St. Andrews and say a tee the ball and play from behind the hazard. Honorable company, face the hole and drop the ball over the head. That's sort of like you know what it became eventually. Drop the ball over the shoulder and Perth. That's what it did become. another cool this my honorable mention for bringing back in match play. If your opponent hits your ball, you have the option.

Matt Considine (34:51.992)
I I like that.

The Professor (35:13.976)
To go ahead and claim the stroke. So let's say they accidentally hit your ball and they stiffed it to like two feet. You can actually say, okay, that was my shot and move along and they have to go play their ball, no penalty on them. the alternative being you could just re say they hit a bad shot and dumped it in the water. You'd say, Well, I'm gonna replace the ball within one yard of its original location and play on. so that was the original, that's my shout-out for bringing that one back. That'd be kind of fun. you actually hit my ball. Maybe I want that. the one they sort of bring back sort of.

Really I want to see enforced so slow play, at the tournament level. Another y I think a lot of our our conversation here is just revolving around like making sure skills are part of the game. And skill the skill of choosing and executing a shot in a tight frame is critical to the game of the golf and having a fair competition. Right. If it's super windy,

It's not fair for one person to sit there for three minutes and wait to get the win that they want and another person's actually playing by the rules of what the the time limit is. If someone hits it way offline, taking an extra thr two minutes to gather their yardage and think about what they're gonna do. or if someone hits in the the hay, the heather, and taking their two, three minutes to think about what they're gonna do and where they should be laying up on, that is completely against the competitive nature of the game and the idea of your previous shot.

partially dictating what you do on the next one. That should include your decision making with that, right? If you hit it down the down the fairway, you should have a pretty quick decision. We'll get to an exception there in the next category. and if you hit it offline, like you've got still the same time limit to figure out what you're gonna do. Yeah, you got trees in the way, a hazard in the way, whatever, winds up, hit the shot, right? Learn to be crafty. And that also brings back shot making, right? When it's super windy, if you can't wait.

Matt Considine (37:00.757)
Yeah.

The Professor (37:05.08)
You know, the the Tom Watsons of the world get the rides to the top, the guys that can just hit the shot in the wind, no matter what the wind is, and have that penetrating ball flight. And that's something I don't necessarily have. I would say I'm on the pride of a lower, you know, half quartile or la last lower fifty percent and like hitting a penetrating shot in the wind. So that role would hurt me. but I still prefer to play by it and do play by it and just say I have to live with the consequences. I need to develop a better flighted shot if I want to be able to hit that in the wind.

Matt Considine (37:32.619)
Yeah, you know, I gosh, I yes. Yeah, cosign, double stamp, pace matters. It is a skill to make decisions quicker rather than as much time as you you please. I I one thing I want to push back on with your th th the c competition only, or or just the the context that it would apply mostly to competition, I I actually

look through all of these through the double lens of is it equitable for competition, but is it good for the general golfer who is just getting the game? And things like that, I believe, are because if it's written into the rules of the game and the clubs and courses are required to not require, but they're they're gonna be aware of it, right? Every club in in the US, every course has somebody

Who has to go through the same handicapping verifications, the same, you know, USGA tests that I do every single year to run a club or run a course and and have those services, right? Have the USGA services available to them, the green section, all that. And so you would then have this snowball effect, I think, professor, of what the expectations are that sh get out to you know, everything to your men's league that's played there for 37 years down to the

group of ladies that just showed up for the first time and are getting into the game. And and I think that if everybody's communicated with that of like, did you know yeah, did you know like one of the rules of golf I I have this with buddies. Like I didn't know that was a rule. You know, they talk about that every time. You'd you'd have the same thing, like, hey, you you you got forty seconds to hit a shot. I didn't know that was a rule. Wow, okay. I they thanks. So not like a local rule, not a competition specific. I I think it'd be really good for the game 'cause w we know it's taking too long to get around golf courses now and and

The Professor (39:03.116)
Mm. Yeah.

Matt Considine (39:29.588)
modern life doesn't help with that. We don't we're not nineteen fifties anymore of of play to play all day, have a cocktail and play some more and it's I I just think yeah, there there's like those cultural pieces that come from governing bodies, that come from g governance. It's it's critical, I think.

The Professor (39:49.241)
yeah, it's stunning if you play on a member day over in Scotland where there's no Taurus play and the the clip they play at is is stunning and you realize, yeah, that's that's the healthy way to play the game right there. Just get on get on get on with it is the sort of ethos, right?

Matt Considine (39:59.125)
I mean

You and I have seen 86-year-olds buzz around a Scottish links golf course in conditions in like three hours. And br briskly, but you know, Yeah. Yeah. And and and hole in putts too, you know? It's like it's crazy to see once you see it, you realize, wow, we're so off on pace expectations. it's just cultural. But

The Professor (40:11.094)
Yeah, under three hours or two. With their with their dog with their dog in toe.

The Professor (40:19.69)
And yeah, that's right. If they're yep, home. Yep.

Matt Considine (40:31.625)
Should we move on to never?

The Professor (40:33.312)
Never change. Let's move on to the last category of the day.

Matt Considine (40:35.389)
You you you get you you start us here.

The Professor (40:38.968)
Honorable mention players keeping their opponent's score, the opponents, you know, marker player. I think critical to game policing internally in the group and your duty to police the group and protect the field. And that includes keeping score and forcing yourself to think about your score as you keep it, right? And think about your opponent's score rather than, you know, part of a skill in golf is being able to ignore your s your score as you're playing and just take each shot at a time and moving through it and forcing players to keep.

Their opponent's score and their score keeps score ever present and just pushes that skill forward and ensures that they can't just trust other people to keep the score. So I I think that and opponents' policing, you know, the rules within groups, I think is just a fabric of the game. So honorable mention my big one, die on this hill, divot policy, play it as it lies. Right. Like, you know, I mentioned when you drive down the fairway, like you're

potentially assured, you know, a quicker play in terms of figuring out what you need to do if you're in a divot and add to complexity, but just because you hit down the middle of a fairway does not ensure yourself a proper lie. as a proper lie does not exist, you get the lie that you get and you play from that. and really like I think, you know, for me, this island one's actually more it's a little bit of the fabric of the game and the play does a lie its ethos that that I like to abs ascribe to.

But really it's more with the ability to define what a divot is. This is it's it'd be basically an impossible feat. One, the grounds aren't defined. Fairways are not a defined piece of grass. Only greens, and then the rest of the area, and then teen grounds are the defined areas in the game of golf. to define what's fairway could never be done. What's a divot could never be done. The only sensible solution would be playing lift cleaning in place everywhere if you want, or drop everywhere if you want.

a divot policy in place and to me we're no longer playing golf if that's the case. That's some other some other version of golf that is just, hey, I'm entitled to proper lies. I'm entitled to a perfect lie in the middle of the fairway. And as soon as you think you're entitled in the game of golf, you're drifting. You're drifting from the point.

Matt Considine (42:50.718)
Yeah. Amen. I I had it as an honorable mention for what I never want to see changed. It is it's almost

I don't know, iconical in in the sense of like those guys in seventeen forty four ri wrote it down, man. Must be played where it lies.

The Professor (43:11.34)
And what they were playing in, the conditions that they were playing in, the grounds that they were playing in are you can take the worst golf course you've played in, and I bet it was it was it was worse than that. Like that what they were playing in.

Matt Considine (43:13.484)
well it's

They there was the except exception. They they had the one exception, you remember what it was? Watery filth. Watery water waterly filth.

The Professor (43:26.51)
what was it? Give it give it to us. Yeah, watery what not ru not collected rainwater typically, watery fills.

Matt Considine (43:33.777)
Waterly filth, which which was later updated in I think it was 1758 amendment to half covered with water or filth. So there was somebody that was that was stretching that rule too far. Like, look at the waterly filth here, guys. You it balls just barely sitting on something. Yeah. we know. Who was the guy at Oakmont that got was that Wyndham c no no, Windham beat the hell out of a locker. Who was the guy that

The Professor (43:43.34)
The second

The Professor (43:47.886)
Yeah. They're they're s they're stamping around their ball getting water to come up out of the ground. That's right. Yeah.

I don't remember who it was, but yeah.

Matt Considine (44:01.339)
It was coming down the stretch. Was it Sam Burns?

The Professor (44:04.364)
Might have been he was on the right side of the fairway on whatever that par four on the backside is. it was the longer par four. Was that the f is that fifteen that's going out? yeah, and he's just, you know, on the right edge of the fairway and yeah.

Matt Considine (44:08.221)
Sixteen.

Matt Considine (44:12.842)
yeah, fifteen. Fifteen. Yes.

Yeah, I I well anyways that's play it w as it lies, is it's so true and I love how you broke that down, Professor. Like if it does change, how the hell are you gonna employ that? It's yeah

The Professor (44:29.688)
Yeah, what counts what counts as a divot, right? Like when when is the divot grown in? When's it not grown in? What's like, that little cut there. Wait, that was someone slamming their club in the ground. Like, what you know, what is a divot?

Matt Considine (44:41.831)
I think it again, it's it's iconical. It's just such a a piece that's fundamental to what golf has always been. And I I think it requires so much acceptance of that, right? That's where the metaphors to life come into play that y you sometimes life puts you in a divot, man. What are you gonna do about it? I tell the story all the time, any chance I get. The one time I got to meet Tom Watson.

The Professor (44:52.451)
Mm-hmm.

The Professor (45:01.964)
Yeah. Figured that they

Matt Considine (45:08.816)
He's telling a story to a group of of people at the Home McGolf in St. Andrews. And this this topic came up and he said, You know what I say when that ball gets in a divided? I turn to my candidate and I say, Watch this. Because this it is it is not a woes me, it is a opportunity for greatness. And you better be, you know, ready to that to delight yourself

The Professor (45:23.308)
Mm, mm-hmm.

The Professor (45:29.366)
Well that

Matt Considine (45:34.2)
out of a low expectation or or take your medicine, whatever it might be. But I I love that. I was like, Tom, you got me. mine, I I I stood on principle for mine as well. I I felt like thinking about the rules that never change. I think you you and I, our heads went to the same place, which was those original thirteen articles. And mine was number seven. This is a little playful, more fun. Number seven at holding, this is the original articles from the honorable company.

At holding, play your ball honestly for the hole and not upon your adversary's ball. So I it's funny to think about guys who are on, you know, getting close to the cup and making the conscious decision to whack their ball into their opponents or their adversaries. it's also fun. My grandfather made us play stymies as a kid. So he grew up with stymies.

The Professor (46:08.43)
The Professor (46:27.382)
Mm. Mm.

Matt Considine (46:31.18)
And he liked us to think about, you know, and his ball was filthy, Kevin. Talk about Waterly filth. His ball, he never marked it, he never cleaned it up. He'd roll it with a chunk of mud on it. I mean, when you're playing at Green Hills most of your rounds, shout out Green Hills. It probably doesn't matter much. But that's how he played. And it was fun. It was kind of, you know, weird to transition to. But when you really think about what is that saying, I love

the principle that golf is you can play it as a team, you can play with other people. the but the opponent at the end of the day and in the highest level is always the course in yourself. And and I just think compare that to all other sports, there's this gentlemanly, ladylike, you know I I don't know d decorum perhaps

The Professor (47:15.713)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (47:30.48)
that that the game expects of you. And and it's not y you can play a match against somebody, but you can't do something intentionally to knock them off their game, right? Or or block their ball. And and every other sport, it's just such a separator for golf, right? The early stick and ball games, you know, hurling and and there there there's so many. There were always elements of

The Professor (47:42.924)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (47:57.837)
Of those stick and ball games where you got to whack the other opponent's ball or hit them, they're you know, whatever. And golf doesn't have that. Golf never did. And I just think that's kind of beautiful. And the modern interpretation of it, you know, today, I guess it would be 11.1A, where it's that at that two strokes in stroke play when a stroke from the the putting green hits another ball at rest on the green.

The Professor (48:02.167)
Yeah.

The Professor (48:07.139)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (48:26.801)
In match play there are similar penalties. The idea would be to enforce penalties rather than a simple prohibition. so it's considered, you know, still in intact today that do not play upon your adversary's ball. But yeah, that's just

The Professor (48:37.026)
Mm-hmm.

The Professor (48:40.672)
Yeah, you think of that, yeah, the fact that that's a penalty rather than just a they replace their ball and you're stuck where it's at. Yeah, it keeps that original rule intact. the the principle, the spirit of the original rule of like you just do not play on someone else's ball. That is not the the goal of this game. Yeah.

Matt Considine (48:50.053)
That principle.

Matt Considine (48:59.941)
I mean, a cup is small enough. You'd have to be pretty damn good even from a short distance to play croquet against another golf ball, but

The Professor (49:08.994)
Yeah, you y again it's one of those I would love to been back there in the, you know, was it seventeen forties and see what was occurring on the grounds of the game where, you know, they're having their pints afterwards. You did you know what Bill did? And then we we don't do that. We're not gonna be doing that anymore. I would love to to see those events.

Matt Considine (49:28.411)
Well these are great. I v very thoughtful from yourself, Professor, as I fully anticipated. w w any others that just honorable mentions you you wanna squeeze in here before we wrap?

The Professor (49:41.484)
I think we've covered a lot of them. I'm looking through the the double hit change was an interesting one in two thousand nineteen. You know, you used to be count as a shot. Now if you accidentally double hit a ball, it's it's allowed. I would it's not a penalty anymore and and you play from where the ball ends up. So if you double chip it. Yeah.

Matt Considine (49:51.15)
Yeah, so and that's not a penalty anymore. It's just

I so here's a hypothetical. I've always wondered the trick shot guys, when would we ever see a a flop to themselves and then crank? Right? That would

The Professor (50:08.364)
I think yeah, I think you yeah, like could you get good enough where it didn't look obvious? Right? 'Cause obviously if like three seconds if the ball's in the air and then you like go to hit it, that's gonna be obvious. But a a true double hit to maybe get a little loft or a little softness on it, can you who's skilled enough to be able to do that would be an interesting one.

Matt Considine (50:26.594)
One we didn't get to, but I one of your examples made me think of is what do you think of dropping? We're now dropping from our knees. We you talked about the guys in Scotland throwing it over their head, the guys in the seventies and eighties dropping it behind their back. do you have any any preference or

The Professor (50:35.725)
Yeah it's

The Professor (50:46.85)
The I I guess the going to the knee one's weird 'cause it's just like wide knee, like people with bad backs and all that just doesn't make a lot of sense and you can be a little bit more controlled in your job drop. I guess I like the shorter one 'cause I I don't think you should be able to control your job very well. Like it is a little bit of a skill, like hitting your spot when you're dropping and from the knee it's a lot easier to do that. So if you're sh but I that's one, like I don't change it to whatever. as long as it's not placing the ball, then

Matt Considine (51:13.796)
I think they I think they need to specifically on the drop, I think they need to specifically talk about the rotation of the ball as it drops. I've seen too many guys get a little finger movement going. Get that thing rolling.

The Professor (51:20.558)
They got that little spin. Uh-huh. The ball hit the ball hitting you not a penalty anymore. I didn't realize they changed that rule. Like if your ball accidentally if your ball sh hits something then strikes you, they changed that rule. It's just you just play it.

Matt Considine (51:35.183)
Do you just play it from Yeah, you just play it. Caddies it includes caddies and other players as well, right? No longer a pellet.

The Professor (51:41.304)
Think so, yeah. which I remember in college, in a qualifier. fellow teammate hit his cart, you bladed a bunker shot and hit his cart and had to had to stroke him. yeah.

Matt Considine (51:52.761)
Yeah. All right, Professor. These are these are great. thank you for the education. Thanks for the discussion. Thank you, USGA, for the rules of golf. and the RNA. They've they've you know, I I thought there was still some discrepancy between verbiage. I think they're pretty much identical now.

The Professor (52:13.912)
Yeah, I think they yeah, the maybe change for just dialect or something, but

Matt Considine (52:17.327)
The the last thing, and I only have this because of running competitions for new club, but on my phone is still the USGA rules book app. There's a rules book app and you have it. You know what I do miss? I miss every year I'd get that USGA rules book and I'd put it in my bag. I I miss the actual physical that is a very nostalgic thing. If you n if you were a you know junior golfer of the nineties, you you definitely had that in your golf bag.

The Professor (52:25.662)
Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.

The Professor (52:32.078)
yeah.

The Professor (52:41.739)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Considine (52:45.485)
I didn't and I never knew where to look things up. I just always had like it would be like, I don't know, I think it's six dash something. just drop it on the whatever.

The Professor (52:54.882)
pulled I pulled it out on a US GA official one time and he disagreed with me and cost me a pretty big penalty. went from a p five to an eight on a whole. And interesting enough he was wrong and I got an apology letter from the US GA five days later that that was an inappropriate ruling. Yeah.

Matt Considine (53:08.76)
Wow.

Big big on them. Big on them. Impressional kid. They they put you back on course.

The Professor (53:14.242)
Yep. I was a little sixteen year old, I think, at the time.

Matt Considine (53:19.586)
Thanks everybody for listening. If you are not a subscriber of the Bag Drop please join us. Subscribe wherever you listen. we've taken a little time off, but we're we're back and forth. You're gonna hear us every single week with some get some really cool, exciting stuff coming, as we've been mentioning. like, rate, and review the show. That helps us a ton. Helps us spread the the word of of the Bag Drop of just this these two chuckleheads, learn about the game and and everything that we do at New Club.

we're trying to make the game more meaningful for all that love it. And and I know if you're listening to this podcast, you are included in that group. If you want to connect with the professor and I or any other future guests, find us in the show notes. You can see our handles, you can see our links, our emails, and and thanks to our our new addition of the squad, Brad Malach, who's been on board helping us produce these episodes, doing some some things.

on the back, longtime member of New Club and just an all around great dude. and thank you for listening. Thanks to our partners at Titleist, their new GTS family of Metalwoods out now. Check out at Titleist.com and we'll catch you guys on the next one.