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The environment around us is a swirling vortex of chaos, but you can navigate it when you have an anchor that can keep you steady. Each episode, Liz Herl dives into data driven strategies and real world tactics with Dr. Tim Caldwell to help you become more grounded and centered in a world that is constantly shifting and changing. Learn to effectively navigate family strife, career challenges and handle the anxiety of the unknown that the news is constantly bombarding us with. Liz is a Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist and Dr. Caldwell is a retired primary care physician and personal trainer. You can lean on their decades of experience to find stability and peace without having to control circumstances or people around you. You can be anchored in chaos.
AIC_Ep23
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Liz Herl: [00:00:00] Hello everyone. Welcome back to Anchor and Chaos.
Tim Caldwell: Hey guys, how's it going? I'm good. How are you? Doing alright.
Liz Herl: Pretty good. Pretty good. We got some current events that we're gonna talk about today. We want to discuss some things that we are kind, a continuous discussion.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Regarding how self-regulation in the age of outbursts.
So we're gonna try and look at how do we [00:01:00] stay grounded in the chaotic world around us when everything feels anything but that.
Tim Caldwell: Absolutely. Thanks for having me back. I'm Dr. Tim Caldwell, I'll be the co-host.
Today we're diving into something we've both been seeing a lot of lately. We see a lot. Absolutely. The media's just been pumping out stories like this, but it has to do with the emotional outbursts that we see with athletes, parents, coaches, crowds especially associated with sports and activities.
And what it says about our ability or our inability, either individually or collectively to self-regulate ourselves.
Liz Herl: Correct. And that again, isn't just for that sports arena, it's for the public, it, you know, public outbursts in general.
Tim Caldwell: That's right,
Liz Herl: and it seems like, I would say any day that we open up social media of any platform, there's a viral going, you know, out where we're just
Tim Caldwell: yeah.
Liz Herl: Looking at these outbursts and we're commenting on them whether they're not just coaches throwing equipment or parents involving themselves on the [00:02:00] field or having emotion outbursts or screaming obscenities from the sidelines. Yeah. It isn't about just the sports, it's a broader struggle than just
Tim Caldwell: that.
That's right. Let's, let's dial it back a little bit, Liz, too. Two of the things that we've seen in national media, maybe worldwide media that really have caught our eye. First of all, the Anthony Case where a young man stabbed another young man for unapparent reasons, but a life was taken.
The other would be where two track and field women were actually in mid race and one hit the other behind the head. And took her out of the race. These outbursts they're all over media. We see 'em everywhere. And then we see this division of is it justified, is it not justified?
And here comes politics, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Before I expand too much on that, I always want to say that I think sports. The event of competition has everything to do with the cross section in [00:03:00] society where competition is regulated and where competition can be seen and appreciated by onlookers, right?
Mm-hmm. So we have, we have superstar players who get to become just these amazing athletes and they make all kinds of money, and the cars and the girls and society has really gloms onto this, this kind of gladiator mentality. And it becomes to be a really volatile and toxic message at some point, right?
Mm-hmm. And I want, I wanna go into that a little bit more.
Liz Herl: Oh, absolutely. And so, kind of springboarding off of that, one of the things that comes to mind is as we're talking about these outbursts and there's a justification always to a response of saying like, this is the reason why I was upset, or whatever's transpiring.
Tim Caldwell: Blame.
Liz Herl: Correct. Blame, yeah. Blame. But it really kinda goes into that victimization, right? Mm-hmm. Like, this situation I'm a victim to versus the accountability of self-regulation
Tim Caldwell: mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Of [00:04:00] when someone is maybe, maybe not always being antagonistic. I think that you sent me a real just the other day of someone bumping into someone at the airport and then them, you know, attacking them,
Tim Caldwell: stabbed a guy in the neck.
Liz Herl: Yeah. The gentleman that walked away clearly did not have any idea that the bump, but it was barely no provocation. Right? Yeah. These kind of encounters that are happening and really that's our conversation as to maybe why they are happening.
Mm-hmm. And kind of going to that a little bit more around. Where does this all come from? So we discussed a little bit this morning in genuine effort, the trending, when did this trend start? We have some varying opinions of like kind of how that timeline started to develop. Sure. I look at it from a psychological aspect and then you look at it from your own perspective, which is Right.
Understandable.
Tim Caldwell: As a competitive athlete, as a former coach and still coaching today, but more on an individual basis and a parent. I wear all those hats. Sometimes I wear 'em all at the same time. The [00:05:00] aspect of seeing people who are, no, let's dial this back. When we talk about coaching, my view on coaching is especially all the way through, up through college k through college.
Mm-hmm. That is a teaching environment. 1%. And that teaching environment has been spoiled now at the college ranks because money has now crept in. You can be paid while you go to college, which I think is am bastardization of the effort and the identity to be going to college for education. But also that we now see people rising to a rank and ability because these parents want to foster this vicarious lifestyle through their children.
Mm-hmm. And now we have these almost tiger woods. Everybody's a Tiger woods. Everybody needs to be LeBron James, everybody. And what happens is they start down this path of it's all or nothing. There's no such thing as [00:06:00] loss. And you're gonna do everything within your power to win, even if it's.
Somebody else's expense. Right. Well,
Liz Herl: what did you say just earlier?
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. That's the Cobra Kai sweep the leg, right? Yeah. Sweep the leg kind of thing, right? Yeah. If they identify any type of weakness, they'll take you out. Mm-hmm. And I see this all the time. Liz is privy to my social media feed for this entire week.
All I've done is promote videos of episodes that happen on the field, on a court on the sidelines, in the stands of people interacting so over the top that we have injuries, dare I say, some fatalities, but these parents, coaches, officials, players have just literally gone crazy. Right? Right.
Liz Herl: So that kinda goes right back to the climate, to this reactivity.
Where did it come from?
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: One of the, you know, we talk about this a lot and it's a fact, it's [00:07:00] not that we're trying to beat up social media, but social media is a conflict playing ground for everyone. It is. It is where everybody goes to see, I mean, we're privy to that ourselves.
I mean, we do the same thing.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: To these emotional outbursts. They get clicks, they get likes, they get comments, they get engagement. And those algorithms just feed off of one ear and feed off of one another. That's exactly
Tim Caldwell: right.
Liz Herl: And that is just nothing but competitive aggressiveness. Mm-hmm.
Not an aggression that's not, you know, healthy I would say sportsmanship at all. Right.
Tim Caldwell: It's good to have competition.
Liz Herl: Correct.
Tim Caldwell: But not at the cost of others.
Liz Herl: And that's where I think they're confusing passion with that kind of aggression. Exactly. They're like very pa That's what we hear a lot. Right.
They're very passionate about this. Mm-hmm. And it's like, well, hold on. There's a difference between passion and full on rageful aggression.
Tim Caldwell: Absolutely. The point I wanna point out about all of that is we get to see what should be organized as a game where there are rules and effects. There's time, particularly time [00:08:00] that if for some reason we play this game for an extended period of time, at the end of this time we agree that it's over and whoever's ahead wins.
Well now it's just chaos. It's chaos on display. And the thing we have is that this chaos doesn't have to be like this. We need to learn how to anchor ourselves. Slow down. We need to be able to. Real time reevaluate. And that accountability and responsibility is lost.
Liz Herl: Run a hundred percent.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
And it's completely checked out. What we've done is we've broken away from the actual thinking centers of our brain, the pre-frontal cortex. We're all amygdala, we're all in motion, we're all fight or flight, we're all in defense. And by the way, it may not even involve you, but you'll get involved in a fight.
Yes. Because you, my my friend's now involved in a fight. Yes, yes, yes. And this whirlwind mob mentality where we have bleachers fill off file out into the field. That's [00:09:00] horrible. It's part, part of this, you know, historically, Liz, I don't wanna wander off too far, but my, I love hockey, but you know, the saying for hockey is, I went to the fights and a hockey game broke out.
Well, why is it like that? I've always wondered what happened to the skill and the limited contact. But now officials just let people fight. Well, and let's don't take the ice, pull off their gloves and start fighting. What's that all about?
Liz Herl: Well, let's talk about that for a minute. Sure. Absolutely.
And we're kind of talking about where this reactivity comes from. Mm-hmm. And what's happening there is there is a fear for individuals to respond, engage or get involved because of the simple fact that you might get in trouble with the law for responding. You might yet, you know, at some cost to you.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's no one backing you in that except yourself. And this is kind of goes into that self worth, that your self identity of saying at the end of the day, wrong is wrong. And if no one backs me up, that's fine. It's still wrong. [00:10:00] That's right. But that's a hard thing that people are struggling with nowadays.
It is because. I don't want to Well, they could be recording. And I'll tell you right now, and you and I have had this conversation several times, it doesn't matter where you go or where you're at in this world, you are always on camera. You're on camera.
Tim Caldwell: You should always assume you're on camera. Yeah,
you bet.
Liz Herl: And so act accordingly. But that's where we're getting a little bit of a rub here because we were just visiting about the reaction of the outbursts are so over the top.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: I have concerns of a person's mental health.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm. And their capability to even regulate brain neurons.
Mm-hmm. I'm not, you know, and your nervous system is, everything's haywire.
Tim Caldwell: Right.
Liz Herl: And you are, that system is being completely reinforced when you're in that reactive stage. That's right. This is how I always respond. And when no one is saying, Hey, no, you don't get to do this.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Then there's nothing stopping me from building on that monster, if you will. And I'm not trying to sound, you know, dramatic. When I say [00:11:00] that, I'm just saying that we don't have any self-regulation. I shared with you that when I was younger that my, my all moms generally do have a look, but my mom would call my, she would call me Elizabeth J.
Mm-hmm. And that's literally it. She would say, Elizabeth J and I would be like, oh, you know, I'd straighten right up and I'd look straight ahead and I'm like, that was it. Right? Yeah. It was the understanding of the respect I had for my mother first off. Yeah. But I'm gonna get in trouble here.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And she expects more from me and my behavior, so I better get in line.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And my mom's watching, so I've gotta get myself right.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Because it's appropriate. Well, where we've wavered from that is, and I don't, again, I'm trying to stay on topic here, but this coddling of like, express yourself, engage in whatever you're feeling.
No.
Tim Caldwell: Well, let me, so in my day and age,
Liz Herl: square tires, four round ones.
Tim Caldwell: That's right. Cave. We were fascinated by fire.
Liz Herl: Moved around with your feet under the car.
Tim Caldwell: That's right. Our [00:12:00] coach was as good as a parent and yeah. What our coach said is, I, it might as well be coming, right?
From the lips of my parents because I knew that back in my day there was such thing as corporal punishment, right? Sure, sure. And nowadays it's corporal punishment is what the coach might make you run a few extra laps, whatever. This is deep. This is deep. As a coach, you walk a line of how do I motivate inspire, instruct, correct.
Direct protect my young athletes and I'm speaking to the little guys because. I still believe that at the, at the age where kids are young, they're still pliable, they're still relatively clean slates that can be, they're malleable. But now the parents have intervened. And no longer is the coach.
The coach. The coach is somebody there to instruct my [00:13:00] child, but I'll tell you what my child will do. Right. And now the coach is neutered. Mm-hmm. And it's a polite way of saying it. That's right. And the coach is, had his fangs pulled, and now all the intimidation, all of the, even the critical instruction, it's been yanked from him because my little darling doesn't like that.
Mm-hmm. And I'm not gonna make my little darling work harder than somebody else, or mm-hmm. Maybe my, my little darling's gonna sleep in a little later. He's a big deal and he doesn't need to come to practice. Now that goes all the way to the college levels. Mm-hmm. And you'll hear it from college, you'll hear it from these professional college coaches that they say that these young men and women, predominantly men are uncoachable.
They now see that there's a monetary value to everything they do and the sport, especially in their image. So this is where the social media comes in. They need to get clicks. They need to get viral, they need to be seen because they want to, it used to be they want to go onto the pros.
Mm-hmm. [00:14:00] Which was the top level. Now they have a portal where it, maybe I'll just play a couple, an influencer, make a bag of money, and I don't need to go on to the pros. Well, that means that the college coach has to constantly recruit his own players. Come to practice. Come, come. Come do something that
Liz Herl: you have to incentivize them to be accountable in some fashion.
Tim Caldwell: And God forbid I ever punish you for not showing you. Right. Right, right,
If a college player thinks he's a big deal, he's gonna tell the coach I'm a big deal and I'm not gonna sweat. I'm not gonna run stairs. I'm not gonna do pushups. So
Liz Herl: there, this is a perfect opportunity, me to share this other story with you briefly.
Yeah. And I, and it's today's time. My daughter is a fifth grader. Mm-hmm. And I really, really enjoy her teacher a lot. She is very direct. And she's not cotton candy and rainbows and I, I think that's appropriate. Mm-hmm. For the age she's trying to teach these young people to grow into, and the accountability and responsibility factors because that's something I truly appreciate about her.
My daughter comes home to tell me that she had to [00:15:00] walk laps for recess because she was caught talking in class. And she felt like it was very unfair because the next person was talking to her. Mm-hmm. She was only responding. Mm-hmm. So she didn't get to have free play. Right? Yeah. She had to walk laps.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And I was like, yeah, that's what happens. And she's like, yeah, but I was just talking to someone who talked to me. Yeah. I don't talk to him. Just don't talk to him. Yeah. And that's, you know, I think that, and that's, as a parent, that's not simple for me. I, I wanna be clear that I, I want, I'm like, yeah, I can feel like that really stinks.
But the hard lesson there is, is don't talk to the person. Right.
Tim Caldwell: But to reiterate the classroom mentality, she's in the classroom. She's on what she should be an act, you know, a, a place to subject or whatever. It's to whatever. She's, she's learning her lesson. On her time now. Right? Right. Exactly. I don't get to teach you in the classroom, so I'm gonna take your time now.
And that's a great lesson. Right.
Liz Herl: And it was nothing harmful. She said Absolutely. She walked laps outside of the cla. Absolutely. You know, but I think a lot of people have hard time with that today. Like, [00:16:00] well, you know, it's not really their fault. They're very overstimulated. It's never their fault.
Right. And I will tell you, my beautiful daughters are the chattiest things and little
Tim Caldwell: bit, little bit like their mom.
Liz Herl: I'm not chatty.
Tim Caldwell: Go ahead.
Liz Herl: But very much so squirrel mentality. They come in with just different stories and I love it and I appreciate it, but there's a place and a time.
Right? So when they're in school, they're there for learning. They're there for, you know, their bottom is in that seat for a purpose. That's right. And they need to give their attention to their teacher, not to their buddy next to them or their friend or whatever.
Tim Caldwell: That's right.
Liz Herl: And that is my expectation now, again, back in my time and I believe yours.
It used to be a deal. Like, I remember this from church, I remember this from any setting my neighbor's house. Do you want me to call your mom? Oh, my Evans, there was nothing worse in the world. And it was like, it was just the idea of the disappointment to my mother. Yeah. There everyone wants to think, well, you're gonna get home and you're gonna get beat, or you're gonna, you're gonna, you know.
No, [00:17:00] I'm gonna get a good talking to and mm-hmm. I don't, who do you think you are going over and acting this way at someone else's home? Mm-hmm. I mean, whatever it may be. So nowadays it's like, go and call 'em and there's all these obscenities that
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Children
Liz Herl: are saying towards these adults
Tim Caldwell: yeah.
Liz Herl: And then they call the parent and the parent's like, what did you do to my child? And so, without parameters on our self-regulation I know you were going to pick up here where we're talking about, I am, what is happening in our brains as far as what's going on,
Tim Caldwell: I mentioned to you that sports are an extension of the classroom. Mm-hmm. I believe that your coach is a teacher. Mm-hmm. And same level of respect. However as much as I believe in sports, the structure that they provide, the lessons you'll learn about, you're not always gonna win. Oftentimes, you're gonna really suck, but you get better at it.
But more important to me, the importance that sports are always [00:18:00] second in education.
Liz Herl: Yes.
Tim Caldwell: I'm not sending you to school to become the next Pele, the next Gretzky, the next Jordan. Mm-hmm. I'm sending you to school to get an education. Now I'm not talking college, I'm talking K through 12. Mm-hmm. And if you think sports are more important than school, you got it.
101, 180 out. Mm-hmm. My sons were both very good at sports. My youngest son extremely good at sports. But there's never a time I won't pull you off the field if I don't get grades. If I don't, if I'm not getting grades, I know you're capable of sport. I will call your coach and say you're ineligible this week.
You will not play. Mm-hmm. And I'm not asking.
Liz Herl: Right.
Tim Caldwell: And my
and my son's. They knew. They knew how important it was.
Liz Herl: They knew that, how that worked. That's right. Right. And the level, again, I always wanna go back to the level of respect that they had for you and, and their mother and the dynamics of their home.
So like those are all really important factors. Right. Which is when we're missing that what happens when we're not taught that We were [00:19:00] just recently talking about accountability and responsibility on I think episode 20.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And that is how do we balance that when we're not taught that what happens in
minds and you're gonna talk about neuroscience, which is my favorite.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Well, we know through behavioral scientists, behavioral studies, plenty of, there's, there's decades and decades and decades of this. But the neuroscience behind it too is we look into the activity of the brain, the amygdala, which is very deep centers to the brain.
They're primarily all a limbic center, you might call. They're all very much attributed to mood, behavior, how we act, right? Mm-hmm. How we act. Mm-hmm. Sure. But when we are in a sports situation, now activity's up blood pressure is up, all these things are up. And as a result of this competitive nature, individual or team.
Everybody's a little bit jacked up, right? Yep. We're all a little bit jacked up, [00:20:00] especially
Liz Herl: Well, that's why your people,
Tim Caldwell: That's, this is where fans come from. Fans means fanatical. This is these people that are in the stands and they're screaming. They're, you know, they're
Liz Herl: nothing wrong with that.
There's nothing no matter's. Nothing wrong with
Tim Caldwell: that. Nothing, no matter it within limits. And we'll talk about that. That's where we're going. When they get outta control, we need to hold them accountable too. But what happens on the athlete's part of view is the aspect of this conflict.
Physical conflict can result in sometimes injury, sometimes insult. And let's say some guy's just dominating you and your level of frustration because you, you have thought either you are a good player or you're not living up to your own. Standards and you got frustration going on, you will abandon all your prefrontal cortex.
This is your rational. Thinking, critical thinking. And you will fall right back into this very primitive you get very physical. You get far more agitated. And now physical contact is now elevated. It's [00:21:00] far too rough. And this is where we see kids at play who, if one child is dominating the other, the other one will begin to come much, much emotional until there's usually an outburst and of some sort.
Sure. Yeah. Something injury. I, I
Liz Herl: shared with this with my client that it's like, someone tap dancing on your amygdala. That's why described it.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, absolutely. And you perceive that as almost it's almost bullying. Right. It's, it's a defense of this guy's. If you could think, you'd think, well, this guy's making me look bad, or dammit, why can't I get this done?
And you're, you're mad at yourself, but you're gonna take it out on him in all reality, her and yourself a little. And as a result, your rational thoughts out the window. And now you've become just this emotional, responsive animal. And if you don't keep that in check or be aware of it, or have your team members, coaches, even your family help you dial that down mm-hmm.
It'll get you. Right. You're gonna pay, you're gonna pay the price somehow it's gonna get you. Mm-hmm. And you'll foul out, you'll be penalized. [00:22:00] You'll get red card, something like that.
Liz Herl: Absolutely. And that's just what we're not looking at enough of what's kind of going on in our bodies mm-hmm.
Specifically here. Mm-hmm. Our brains, which is all connected. And that as this starts transpiring we have no, i I call it lasso safe safety net. Like where is that thing that snatches you up and says, okay, you gotta get ahold of yourself? And I'm always full of stories 'cause I tell my children and my friends and family and clients that I can look at anything and probably make it therapeutic.
Yeah, sure. And it should be the, when my son was six years old, he was having a birthday party and one of his peers was kind of roughhousing with him. And I saw the moment he went from roughhousing to like, it wasn't roughhousing anymore. And I looked at him and I just looked right in his eyes and I was like, no.
And he was, and I could feel his aggression, like he's ready to take this little guy down. Because it went from roughhousing into something else Yeah. As it does with little boys. And this is like [00:23:00] common and normal and natural. And I was just like, we've gone to where we've, now the roughhousing is now made us angry.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And having that ability to just look at him and be like, okay, enough's enough, we're gonna do something else. Mm-hmm. And it, by the way, that wasn't enough enough for him. He was ready. He, he squared his back to me and he was ready to go after this little guy. And I was like, Hey, look at me.
And I'm like, we're doing something else. And so I had to redirect him and we did something else and it turned. Quickly, it turned into a really, you know, good time. However, that, and I'm definitely no, you know, mother of the year, but I'm just trying to give an example of that kind of interaction. Where are we stopping ourselves, our parenting, teaching, any type of environment where we're saying, Hey, like, let's take a beat.
Like, let's take a minute because we're kind of feeling overwhelmed here, because once you go fully emotional and it goes within split seconds, regaining that critical thinking logic part of your brain is very hard.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, it is. [00:24:00] And, you've pinned out some things here that can happen how we can realize that these things are going on.
Why would, why is that so important to develop that right away? Why is it important that your coach and your family identify that things have escalated, right? Mm-hmm. And officials, by the way. Mm-hmm. When officiating has changed quite a bit. I sat on a school board for eight years in that I saw lots of officiating.
I saw a trend in officiating that these little guys aren't very good at it. So we're gonna let some, for instance, basketball, we're gonna let traveling happen. Double dribble happen. But you can't do that all the time because when is the lesson learned if I never call you on
Liz Herl: right, right, right. When do I know that I'm now
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. And where's the line? And, if all you know how to do is layups and you turn into this LeBron James 15 steps in a travel and no travel called, everybody goes, well that's not fair. That's not fair. And even be just because he is a [00:25:00] little guy, you gotta correct him.
Okay guys, you can only take two steps. And this is what it looks like. And even I've seen officials take players on the court and explain to them. This is why I called it, and he'll explain to them. Great teaching moment, great teaching moment. And the coach should reiterate that.
But what we see instead is the crowd goes crazy. The player objects, the coaches are waving their arms. That's not how it's supposed to work. Right. That's not, and that takes away the true nature of fair competitive sports.
Liz Herl: You know, briefly, I would, like I asked you this earlier, when did it become acceptable for this reactive outbursts to be met with and tried to navigate or maneuver it versus like, shut it down.
I don't know why you're act this way, but you need to knock it off. Versus now there's this try to be persuasive. I can see you're upset and you're really overwhelmed, versus like, I'm not [00:26:00] going to take this type of behavior from you, so you need to knock it off and. But now the more that we're allowed to feel ourselves, uhhuh feel our feelings, mm-hmm.
I can
Tim Caldwell: tell, I can tell you coaching, I used to coach little guys, and I run across them all the time. They're three feet taller than me now. But they used to be these little guys who came out onto the field and their shoes weren't tied. And, you know, their pants were inside out and they were awesome.
They're just awesome. But here's what happens is as they grow these little darlings, I like to call them, begin to misbehave. They become flip it to the coach and to the officials. And by the way, guess who's got their back? Mom and dad. You'll hear mom and dad behind the, behind the, behind the backstop.
Screaming at the coach or screaming at the coaches, screaming at the officials. Let him along. Let him do this. Let him do, he didn't do anything wrong. Exactly where that kid got that attitude, right? Is he [00:27:00] learned it from them. Mm-hmm. Now, I've said this many times, we are seeing the fruit of this
I can be anything I want participation trophy. Mm-hmm. Realm where everybody's a winner. Nobody's a loser. You didn't make any bad decisions. This is not the right one. His is more right than yours. Mm-hmm. Right. And what happens is officials start to shut off officiating, and parents see things going wrong in the bleachers.
Officials school supervisors, principals, they see things going wrong in the bleachers. That bleeds over into the athlete, the athlete onto the court, where do I see it go wrong? I see it this, we're in about the second or third generation where my little darling can't do any wrong and you're not gonna tell him what to do.
Mm-hmm. Right now, real time, we're watching Dion Sanders son, [00:28:00] Sandifer, I think his first name is Sanders, is playing out a role before the whole world where he's telling everybody where he's gonna go and what he's gonna do as a college athlete. He's told people in press conferences, press releases.
I don't think you know who my dad is. Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: Right. I'm not. And that's, that's how he wants to run his career.
Liz Herl: Yeah. I'm not familiar. I know you shared briefly with what that is.
Tim Caldwell: And in and on the other side of that coin, I've seen Dion Sanders on podcasts. Mm-hmm. Say I'm not a helicopter parent.
And then they'll go, yeah, you are. You're a helicopter company. He goes, no, I'm not. But, but what he's saying, what he, in the same breath he'll say, if you don't, if he doesn't get the team, he chooses in the position he wants, I'm gonna stop head coaching at Colorado for the buffaloes. And guess what? This kid didn't get picked and he gave up his coaching.
Okay. To punish everyone. Right? Sure. What are we learning [00:29:00] from all this? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tell me again. I don't understand it. I think it's perverse. Oh, well that sounds very ego driven, so, yeah. Oh, it's horrible
Liz Herl: When we're talking about something of this nature, I think that we have to, there's always something, you know, why do we respond?
Why do we do these things? What gives us the entitlement, dare I say mm-hmm. To respond. Fair enough this way.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: A lot of the time, individuals actually don't care for the way this feels. As a person, it does not feel good to fit being out of control. So whenever your body or your mind is outta control, it feels horrible.
Yeah. And it's a perceived idea that I have some sort of righteous mentality to be able to do this. Like, I can do this because I'm right in the way. I believe that I'm right because I'm down this rabbit hole and there's no way going back from it. Sure. And I've just gotta, dig my hills in here and hopefully nobody notices, which everybody notices.
It's how do we stop all of that? Is this, some of the things that we're gonna talk about [00:30:00] how to address this is old is older than Dr. Calwell. Hey, hey, hey.
Tim Caldwell: And that is, Hey, now,
Liz Herl: My, the things that I like to talk about is of course our, our self-regulation skills. Yeah. And it doesn't have to sound so therapeutically that people, you know, don't care for, but it's like take a beat, like.
Absolutely. Just if I could tell anyone how many times I, if I had a penny, for every time I've told an individual, not just my, my family, friends, clients, individuals alike, step away from an environment, a situation, take a minute to kind of check yourself. Mm-hmm. And not worry. Everybody is worried what everybody else is doing and saying, an acting and being, and then we involve ourselves in their emotion and their feedback.
That's right. And then we're feeding off that. And by then you're so down into this reaction, there's no way coming back from it.
Tim Caldwell: Right?
Liz Herl: And so when I say take a minute, just like take a breath to be like, Hey, I need a minute. I teach my girls and my son this all the time. It's like, I don't care if people like it or not.
I [00:31:00] need a minute. And it generally, people are kind of a little, just that
Tim Caldwell: pause.
Liz Herl: Yeah. Right.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Because the next thing, 'cause what happens next is if you don't give me a minute, the next thing's outta my mouth is gonna be really hurtful.
Sure.
Tim Caldwell: Now. From a coaching aspect that take a minute. It used to be competitive athletes, let's say. It can be, it can be anything on a field or a court, especially team driven. What'll happen is something happens and then the activity starts to get a bit more physical. It's a lot faster.
A coach should literally be able to go, whoa. Mm-hmm. Time yes. Time, yes. Bring it in. And if I was a coach, I would say take a knee. And everyone would take a knee. I'm not asking you to, I'm not, you're not gonna stand around your hands or hips, take a knee. Yeah. Because you're part of a team and you do everything as a team.
And that's where that all got, that's where that all got swap swapped out is, you know, you got players grabbing the board and they're gonna show a coach. That's not gonna happen, brother. That's not gonna happen. Not only that, you're gonna say, alright you guys, this is, you're just [00:32:00] getting going faster and faster and making more and more mistakes.
Take four deep breaths. I'll, there we go. I'll talk. Here we go. I'll talk you. Listen, I want you guys to practice this. First of all, you are a team. I know you're a good player. I know that you score a lot, but you need to see your team. Mm-hmm. And that is, this player is always open. You need to get that ball to him.
Even if he doesn't score, you're not getting it done. Give him a chance. And this is part of being a coach. I've had we call it the pitchers on your coaching. And it seems to me all of the head coaches, all their sons are the pitchers. Right. 'cause I want my son to be the pitcher.
Mm-hmm. No, that's not how that works. Okay. I've had people who are really good at baseball under my guidance, fathers want to be my assistant coach, and all they do is dog me. Why isn't my son in there? Don't you wanna win? Yeah, I wanna win.
So does everybody else on the bench. Mm-hmm. Because you don't let him play. If I [00:33:00] let your son play, he'd play the entire game and none of those guys get there. And that's my job as a coach, is to teach those guys. Because how can he get better watching your son play? He needs to play.
How can your son learn to be a part of a team and to dial it all back if he doesn't know how to sit on the bench? We have to take turns at being players on a team that's lost. It's lost. It's all driven by what's the scoreboard, the aspect of practice to learn. And then what we say hang the art.
What? All that hard work shows up on game day. Mm-hmm. I don't get to badger you. We've been over this and over, this is your time to do it. But if you haven't learned how to do these things by game day, it's gonna show up. Right? And what I'm trying to do is foster good sportsmanship. I don't even hear that word anymore, right?
No, not at all. We don't see people get knocked down and picked up by their opponent. It was an instruction to my son who played baseball. He was an amazing [00:34:00] player, but every time he's playing third place or pitcher, ironically, when somebody dings a ball, when he's on your, he's standing on your bag, you're gonna tell him.
Nice job, right? Mm-hmm. Nice run. Nice. Scored nice. And in turn he run the respect of all the other team members, because he knew this, this guy's straight up. He's a good guy. We're just having a game.
Liz Herl: We're just having a game, right? We're playing a game.
We're all competitive. We all wanna win, but at the end of the day, we can, you know, still acknowledge someone else. Yeah. Yeah. And so one of the things that I talk about a lot is like the reframing of a situation. So you just did a really good job of kind of illustrating what would go on, on, on a, on a team field.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: In a situation where we're interacting with someone else and they're being very they're reating and they're kind of going into attacking characteristics and things of that nature. First off, I always share with individuals to stop engaging. Like, you do not have to listen to someone berate you and feel like they have their, some sort of ability or, or entitlement to do [00:35:00] so.
If you are having a disagreement with a good friend or a partner or an adult child, or even just a small child, and you know, you're rattled and you've had a really long day and everything's exhausting you, and it's just one more thing. And when someone goes to ask you a question, you, you bite back hard and you're like, oh, great.
Well, what happens sometimes is we get into, now I feel like I've responded like a jerk, and now I'm even more angry at that. So then you know how we're compounding and we're building in those moments. Or if you're in a conversation and you're not, I call it reaching the other person.
Like I keep trying to share something and I'm not reaching them. When I say pause and reframe, I always say to go into a state, like even if I always try and say, take yourself out of the space that you're in. Like, go into the bathroom or go somewhere. When I go back out there, what is it that I wanna listen to and what is it that I wanna see?
Yeah. I wanna reframe how this is gonna go
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: With the productivity of the other individual and [00:36:00] myself.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And I wanna give grace to both and I wanna give some compassion around. Sure. Whatever it is. We've had both had a long day, we both misunderstood each other, whatever it is. And if we could just practice that, but we get so dug into our, you know, self-righteous mentality of like, no, you are not listening.
What I'm trying to say is, and everything is lost. I tell people this all the time. Once you reach that point, nothing gets across. You're, you're dead in the water. You are not gonna, you're not gonna get anywhere. Yeah. Those, and then you get more reactive.
Tim Caldwell: That's right. Those, those doors. So, okay, so neurologically, let's say behavioral sciences, the body is the body and mind are geared towards, if you ask it a question, the natural response or your relaxation has a door that closes because it feels like it's now under some type of scrutiny or, or a test. But there's a thing called elicitation, and that is where you can say, you did a really good job.
What do you think you could do next? Although a question [00:37:00] I'm not criticizing. Mm-hmm. I'm asking you, what do you, and you have now the, the opportunity to use that prefrontal, cort, I, a big brain humans have, and to express themselves and, okay. I think I could I could get down court faster, or I could I need to, I need to make sure I'm covering the field and watching everybody around me, whatever, whatever the ex the excuse is, but we need to stop.
Criticizing coaches, parents, even fellow players, to the point where we shut people down, we need to go. You did that really well. Mm-hmm. We call that a manager sandwich, something good, something bad, something good again. Mm-hmm. You did a really good job, but I really need you to do better now. Let's go out there and win.
Mm-hmm. Right. That's a very old's, a very scripted old school. It's old school, but the in that the message needs to be, look I'm not gonna, maybe you are one of those people that if I commit you the wrong way, they're gonna shut down and I, I can't reach 'em at all. But you [00:38:00] could certainly say, you're doing really, really well at this.
I'd like to see you. Then they'll go, okay, that's not such a big deal. I can do that.
Liz Herl: Yep. One of the things I wanna talk about here when we're talking about how to address things, and we've, we shared this before as well, the expansion of an individual. So as a person that you are working on your own self-regulation, how you respond, how you perceive situations, how you see things going in the way they should be going.
That's kind of how we all kind of direct ourselves. Mm-hmm. It's like, well this is the way I've understand it to be, therefore it should be in this manner. Mm-hmm. And now when all of that is transpiring, it's being able to also understand that the other person doesn't respond the way you respond. So what I mean by that.
Is if you see someone getting upset, tone, changing, whatever it is, or they just go great real big outbursts, like what we're seeing, it's how do we withdraw? Which I think [00:39:00] there's a power play issue going on today that if I withdraw and don't respond, that that's some sort of weak component of myself versus like, actually this is really just not Martha, my energy, and this person's gonna just spiral outta control and I just don't wanna deal with that.
Versus like, know your audience. That's one of the things I wanna talk about is like, know. Who you're responding to. Yeah. Because sometimes people wanna really engage with someone and say, Hey I'm sorry. Like that wasn't the way I intended that to land, and I apologize about that. Well, that person is so far emotionally dysregulated into, you know, you did this on purpose, I know what you meant.
And it's like, okay, I can't reach them. So that's disengagement time. Okay. Mm-hmm. Don't keep trying to reach them. You don't understand what I was trying to do. And, you know, still trying to reach one another. It isn't about anyone winning. When we, we think about, like when I call it the one down position, when we take a step back and say, this is going nowhere, this is fruitless and it only gets worse from here.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: People's feelings gets hurt. People get more reactive. People can get [00:40:00] physically hurt or their life taken. Mm-hmm. All out of these emotional mm-hmm. You know, things that are spiraling outta control. When this is happening, how do we, detach performance from self-worth is kind of where I was going with that kind of mentality.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Well, as I said, both all of those qualities are a must, but they need to be practiced again, not just by the athlete, but by everybody around them. And in turn, it's your job too, to regulate your other friends too. This is a part I think is really important to discuss, is that as coaches, as parents, as fans, and even officials when we see something wrong, you say something that got somewhere that got lost in translation and how we say it when we say something.
Well, not only that is saying something is now an affront. Yes. Right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's, it's officially taboo. A bad thing. Now I'm going to just build a scenario and I know [00:41:00] everybody's seen it. You go to a game, you basketball sucker, whatever, and you have two passionate parents and these passionate parents are just escalating and escalating, and now they're not sitting.
They're standing. And they're yelling. And now the yelling gets louder. And now the yelling is directed specifically at players. And now the yelling is specifically directed at the coach and at the officials. And now they're on the sidelines. Right. They're even stepping on. That is where administration, that's where the coaches can look down at those people and make sure that they see you.
And at some point a message needs to be sent to them. They need to calm down. Or I'm gonna ask 'em to leave. Now you'll, everyone will just freak out about that. Right? Is it, is it racist? My first amendment? Mm-hmm. I can say what I want. I can do what I want. I pay for my kids to be here. You do. [00:42:00] But you know, in a social environment, we need to learn how to dial it back and communicate better.
You are not doing anybody any service. Mm-hmm. You're not helping on the field. Mm-hmm. You're only hurting yourself and you're making it horrible for people around you. Now, I don't mean to be a went blanket, but what I'm saying is these people who are fans, and they are, there are people who are just absolute fanatics.
I just want to give them a little slice, especially when it comes to pro sports. I want to give them a little dose of what reality is. You may be a fan, you may buy their jerseys. You may, I, I knew a guy whose entire basement was the Cleveland Browns, his lampshades were Cleveland Browns. But in reality,
they don't know you from Adam, they wouldn't throw water on you. You the first thing, everyone's bubble. They wouldn't throw water on you if you were on fire. They would drive right past you if you were dying of thirst. They don't care [00:43:00] about you. Why are you so invested in them?
Liz Herl: Because, you know, and I, I can appreciate what you're saying and it does seem that simple, but this is something where experiences become a part of our identity.
Sure. Like, and it's that belief,
Tim Caldwell: ARCA archetypal, you know, they become archetypes, right? Heroes. Correct. Yes.
Liz Herl: So when I say I know that become a part of our identity and you know, I am, without this, this is, you know, I'm not sure how I operate without my love of this, or this is how I identify myself or whatever.
There's an ownership to it. There's just something that is completely involved in the self that feels Oh, sure. That's where the, that's where it comes from. So that's why I'm saying from. Another individual, they could look at it and say, well, like, that's really over the top. Like I've seen people, you know, like a, a certain outfit and then they wear it every single day and it's just like, well, they just love that outfit or whatever.
And now I shared it, you, my mom [00:44:00] had like 44 cookie jars, like, 'cause she loved cookie jars. And I was like, where are we gonna keep all these cookie jars? Yeah. But she still got cookie and we still kept buying her cookie jars. But it was, it's just the idea that it becomes something that's treasured to them and it, and it becomes, they identify with it as such a part of them.
Sure. So yes. Perhaps they wouldn't know you on the street or, or you know, put you out with the fire pieces. That's little. Cool.
Tim Caldwell: It's true. It's true. It's true. Why would a multimillionaire care about little old beer gut you? Well, because they don't. Okay. They don't. And I, this is a harsh reality. I don't watch pro sports.
My bitterness towards, if you get paid, whether you do a good job or not, that's not really mm-hmm. A hundred percent. Well, how I got so bitter about this is the Larry Holmes Tyson fight. When Larry Holmes fought Tyson, Larry Holmes looked right in the camera and win or lose.
I make $7 million, and guess what? He's ceremoniously went out there and got his [00:45:00] teeth knocked on his throat, and he flopped around like a fish for $7 million. And I'm just saying, why don't you just give him the money and let's not fight.
Liz Herl: Yeah. Because it's the entertainment. No,
Tim Caldwell: no. The idea behind that, on the competitive realm is if there's one winner, you'll see competition.
With one winner. That's the prize, if you see competitions either singular or as a team, stop paying these guys these outrageous prices to just run a pig stint skin down the thing. You have to win the game to get paid. That's competition.
Liz Herl: So you're giving a perfect example of that competitive, emotional feeling that we get around something when it's not being done correctly in, in orderly fashion than it previously was done.
Mm-hmm. And now everything is evolving and it's changing. And as far as, you know, how we see sports and how we see when I say just being out in public, we've, we've really talked a lot about sports today, which is fine. Mm-hmm. But just walking around and being in public and just [00:46:00] engaging one another, holding doors open, courteous is how are you?
Good morning. Things of that nature that isn't so like. We're so locked into ourselves that we're, you know, missing the world that's going on around us because we have to defend ourselves from it. 'cause everyone's walking around in a, slow, hostile state all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Which is really unfortunate.
So how do we address it? What do we do? I mean, we've talked about a few things. We have to recognize when we're in high emotional environments. We have to recognize that within self. Hey, I always joke about that around the holidays
people are like, okay, now I'm going back over to, you know, whoever's house. And it's kind of crazy. So if we know we're gonna be in an environment that kind of causes that emotional angst within us, yeah. We have to start identifying that. And looking at how we handle ourselves.
Yeah. I mean, we talked about being able to take it, take a minute. Mindfulness. Again, it's a big buzz word, but it is a very, very helpful, scientifically proving how we regulate our breathing, regulates our nervous system.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Liz Herl: And it's like, I [00:47:00] know they're gonna ask me 50 questions about this, and I don't wanna answer this.
So how do I take care of myself in this moment? Mm-hmm. Like, whatever it is, you know? And start taking care of ourselves and stop maybe expecting the other individuals around us to take care of us. Yeah, sure. Like, you know what, Hey, you know, when I'm there, take care of me in this fashion.
Now I'm all about support. Now I talk to families about this. Like, you know, you have that one person in the room you can look at and you're like, Hey, like, you're the person I'm gonna go over to, and we're gonna be able to, connect and stay grounded together. But more importantly, how do I not, get overly overstimulated.
Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: You get too amped up over a situation, right? Yeah. Well, okay, so beyond sports, then I will, I'm going to dip into military training. So in military training, you learn that you are a part of a team. And that you are no good as an individual. You may have skills, you may be highly skilled, but you are no good without the support of your team.
And I might add in your private life very few [00:48:00] people are self-made. They may have done a lot of the work by themselves, but they still have family behind 'em somewhere. Mmhmm From the military aspect, I would always say, I want people to know that you are a part of something bigger than you.
Mm-hmm. And as a team, you will reflect your team. Win or lose the team won or lost. You didn't, he didn't lose the game because of a mess up. You didn't win the game because you made more baskets than the other guy. Stop that, coaches stop that. Parents stop that. Your little darlings are just they are numbers in a statistical impossibility.
If you think your little boy's gonna go play in the NBA. Mm-hmm. I don't care how good you are. It's one in, I think it used to be one in like a hundred thousand. And then it's slowly because there's so many different teams, and that's one in 10,000 or something like that. Mm-hmm. But even as a D 1D high D level player in the college [00:49:00] realm, you may not go onto the pro
ranks, especially if you are not somebody who gives back to the team. Mm-hmm. And that's one of the things that breaks these young men and women is that they think that their special skillset is just untouchable and everybody needs to do what I say and the world revolves around. That's not how the world works.
Liz Herl: No, no. And kind of, you know, I would say jumping off of that is when you're talking about how to address, I think the team mentality is a great example. Yeah. Of no one, no matter what, when there's a lot of great, stories out there of people striving and persevering and pushing through, and there was someone somewhere in their timeline that did encourage them and that was a part of their team.
Yeah. At some point in their life, you know, veering differently. Yeah. Without it out, you know, so when people were like, I had made this on my own, it's like, I, there you may have strived very hardly and you obtained a lot.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Solely That's [00:50:00] true. At different aspects. But there are people a part of that.
Very true. That we should humble ourselves in acknowledgement. So when we talk about, like, reframing our, our, and shifting our, our narrative and our mindset mm-hmm. We go into a lot of negative self-talk. I'm a failure. I lost this, I'm such a loser. All those things I screwed up again. It's always my fault.
Versus how do we learn to improve within ourselves and saying like, this isn't a great, this isn't a wonderful time for me. Yeah. First off, but the mindset has to shift in how we look at this. This is an opportunity for me. Mm-hmm. Like I, I don't want any more opportunities, like I'm full up and that's not how life works.
It just continues to present you with opportunities. Sure. To say, alright, so this is how this went. It didn't go in the way you wanted. It doesn't mean you failed. It's uncomfortable, it doesn't feel good, but doesn't equal that you are a failure or you are a loser. Like how we shift that so when someone is in front of us calling us those names or belittle us in whatever fashion that we had previously believed we [00:51:00] were, we react less to it because we know that's not true.
Tim Caldwell: That's true. Yeah. We know
Liz Herl: that's not true. Yeah. That's, we, we know we, we built that neurologically within how we reprocess that
Tim Caldwell: armor
Liz Herl: Yeah. Is in there. It's like, yeah. You know, I used to think that way, but I don't, so they have less power in their words. And I think that's really important that we try and work on that a little bit more for ourselves when we are involved in situations that might Sure.
Draw in this type of Sure. Because you never know where in. Reactions come that right. Outbursts happen's. They're over the smallest little things of
Tim Caldwell: they are,
Liz Herl: Miscommunications and misunderstandings. I think, like I said, it's kind of unfortunate we're kind of walking around a little like hostile egg on egg.
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: A couple things. Neuro linguistic programming that was a, that was a term brought forward and popularized by Tony Robbins. So it's like state management. Some of the tricks that we learn through those very same behavioral science scientists and the neurosciences, [00:52:00] let's say things aren't, things are going south.
You're not having a very good game, you're not doing very well. Now, this doesn't have to be sports. It could be business. Stop talking to yourself like I. Mm. Start if, if you're not gonna take care of yourself take care of somebody else. So start calling yourself you. You or Tim?
Mm-hmm. All right, Tim, you can do better than this. Nice. You can. Nice. Not I messed that up. I messed. No, no, no. Tim, I don't, I want you to work on this, Tim. You be the coach. You get to be the player too. And by utilizing those types, that type of phraseology and the way you deliver and think about yourself Jordan Peterson brought forth this information who said, you know, people won't take care of themselves, but don't take care of their pets.
Right. They'll take their pets to the ves, they'll give their pets. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Absolutely. Take care of yourself. I know. Do the same thing. Stop beating up on you. Mm-hmm. Or, or, I, I messed this, I this and start taking care of you. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. You, you can do better than this. I've seen [00:53:00] you do this, but you can do this again.
That's one approach to it. The other is rewarding the positive behavior and not punishing, but just don't keep inflating the bad behavior. Mm-hmm. For instance, I remember from really great golfing coaches and they used to teach their golf students that when they made a really good chip is that they should tell, reward themselves literally by patting themselves all, man, good job.
Mm-hmm. And this is what the physical, and this is what this feels. Mm-hmm. Like I'm closing a circuit neurologically. Yes, you are physically the tactile stimulation. Mm-hmm. But you're not going to grit your teeth and slam your club mm-hmm. When you don't get it. That's, that goes mm-hmm. That you're gonna have.
Golf is a strange sport. You can hit 1000 golf balls and it'll take that one sweet hit and you're. You're sold, you're gonna do it. You're gonna hit another thousand because you're looking for that sweet hit. Well, quit punishing yourself [00:54:00] for the 99. The 9 99. Mm-hmm. Reward yourself on the one and praise it's two.
Priests three. And now you're hitting buckets of balls like you should. And that rewards system builds this neurolinguistic programming. I taught myself how to do better. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I taught myself how to feel better. Right,
Liz Herl: right.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: When you are challenged then you have a little bit more armor and resiliency that verbal part. The one other aspect I wanna touch on is how this affects us. Physically our physiological health. Yeah. And what happens within this, the chronic stress responses that we've constantly talked about, elevated cortisol, high blood pressure, muscle tension, all of these things that happen.
I mean, how many times have you I've heard about where people were so upset they had a heart attack or they had, some ulcers. Yeah. Oh, goodness. Ulcers. Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. All there's your body. I tell people, chiropractically and from neuroscience, you're a walking museum.
Every injury and experience you've ever had in your life. Is this [00:55:00] gonna be an age joke? No, it's not. Is you are a museum, the first time I tried to walk in those Pratt Falls. First time I fell down a flight of stairs or off my tricycle those injuries are in you.
There's an emotional response to all those things now. That leads into real trauma, right? Sure, absolutely. First car wreck I was in the first time I was ever beaten or abused. Whatever the scenario is that may mar or scar that's in you too. Yeah. Well, you, you know you have it in you.
I'm telling you, you have full reign over your own mental capacity. You can do this. You can, and take, you can take charge of these things and just say, look that was then. This is now. New day, new way. It's either one day all happen or day one, like mm-hmm. The rock says, which I can't stand that guy.
But anyway. Anyway, it's all, it's all about how you build and frame your world. And if it's gonna be in sports, especially on a team, you're part [00:56:00] of a team, suck it up buttercup. Because win or lose, you didn't do it by yourself.
Liz Herl: No. No. And you know. Going back to when you said that the first thing, the, the ability to build this resilience, it is so challenging and, and it does, it, it frustrates me as, you know, a human person and that life is really, really hard.
Yeah. And it's exhausting and retired. Yeah. It's like, I don't wanna be resilient, I wanna be tired. I wanna be, I just wanna lay down. Okay, well, you get 10 minutes, like, like you, you get 15 minutes. Yeah. And then you have to get back up. Yes. And it's like, yeah. But the problem is sometimes it's not even, you know, worth doing that because you may just stay there.
It's so comfortable wallowing in myself. Pity, yeah, sure. Then it is to get up and say, Hey, I've gotta build some awareness around this. Sure. That's that's absolutely true. Some, intentional action around this that I have to do. And it's like, well, that's a lot of work. I tell everybody all the time when you go to therapy, it's work.
It's not a, you know. Interaction of friendship. [00:57:00] It's a problem solving of behaviors and understandings and dynamics on all kinds of things that you explore. And you're like, well, this isn't fun at all. Yeah. I, I think,
Tim Caldwell: I think people, for instance, therapy like that, I think people think you go in and they take your problems away.
Oh no. But that's not it at all.
Liz Herl: It isn't. It's one of the most humbling experiences that I have ever had in my life to work with individuals, but for them to see their capability is the biggest reward of my job. And that's when I say, you can do this, it's gonna be really, really challenging.
But you can do it same thing on your end. Same my mind. Yeah. Absolutely. To, to
Tim Caldwell: see, to see someone they, they, they're oftentimes broken, but they're usually defeated mentally or emotionally. But to see you know, part of their regular purchase is that they're always a little down and no energy and
kind of a victimology that they carry through life. But as you get better at training mm-hmm. This, you begin to reverse this swirl around the drain. Yeah. Now you bring it to a standstill. Now you are [00:58:00] beginning to spin it the other way. I'm not this weak person. Mm-hmm. I can do more than I did before I had stamina.
That surprised me. I got stronger and then pretty soon it's this whole new person emerges. It's beautiful to see. Yeah. It really is beautiful to see. Yeah.
Liz Herl: And it's I imagine a joy for you to see. I know that you, I've had the opportunity to meet a few of your clients that are going through great transitions in their life right now that I've had the opportunity to see, and it's been encouraging for me to see as well.
Mm-hmm. You know, why we want individuals to kind of maybe hear and take away today is when I talk about the physiological responses of what builds up in our body. And when I talk about stress and cortisol and blood pressure and all the things that goes into bigger things, right? Heart disease and our weakened immune immune system disrupts our sleep.
All the, those things that yeah. Is it just attacks us at our physiological level and we don't even without it out, we don't see it compounding. If you, you know, if you will, [00:59:00] you're just like I shared with you that I have this strain in my shoulder that I've been dealing with for a while, and I feel like I'm constantly like this.
Tim Caldwell: It has a, has a name now, doesn't it? Yes. I call it Tim. Oh, okay.
Liz Herl: Anyhow. But, oh. Anyway, it is a pain in my neck, literally. And I'm like, I have to work more on just like my own relaxation. Yes. Like my own, you gotta relax your body. Just like, just take a breath. Yeah. You know, and we have to be mindful all this 'cause it literally is in our bodies, in our cells.
Yeah. You know, and killing us. It's killing us.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. It absolutely will. And like I said earlier, the, that, that manifests itself, those stresses. So, here's a interesting experiment for people to do at home. This has to do with neurolinguistic programming. You can sit on a stool and I want you to just be aware of how you're sitting.
Just relax. And then I want you to think of really negative thoughts in your life. Just the horrible things or things that really damage you and you will feel yourself begin to [01:00:00] shrink. In a snap of the fingers, you can then, without any more prompting, I'll go now I want you to remember the happiest day, the day you got your puppy or you got married, or you had your child and your entire body will change.
Mm-hmm. Your physiologic effect changes. Well that can happen to you too. And that's what's neat about the physical activity that I provide people when they get to train, is that it's not always tangible when we work on the mental part of our psychology, but it is very much tangible when we see physically I wasn't able to do this.
Yes. I wasn't able to do this. Mm-hmm. I can do this. And I remember when we were training Liz one time we were, I think we were doing chest supported back rows. And you had done it and you'd done really good. And I put a set of fifties in front of you. And you didn't believe you could do it, but you could do it.
You really did do it. And when the light comes on, ding. You are bitten. Yep. And now that spin is spinning the other way. Right. [01:01:00] And this is what we can apply towards our life. I have to believe, good Lord, put everything in you you're supposed to have, and that you can reverse almost any disease process if you're asking the right questions, taking the right steps, and making the effort to change that all around.
That's what genuine effort is all about. It takes your genuine effort, not this half-hearted. Somebody's gotta save me. There's no calvary. It's you. Right. Absolutely. Save you.
Liz Herl: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: That's take care, take care of
Liz Herl: you. Yep. That's exactly right. We've always said, no one's, no one's coming.
So some closing thoughts here are rather, you know, whatever aspect of this that you're hearing this from an athlete, a coach, or just someone trying to navigate our chaotic world that we're in. You don't have to be a slave to your behaviors and your reactions. Yeah. And we have control over ourselves.
You can train your mind like you train your body.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, that's right. And it, and it will respond. And this is great, we could talk more about this. The fact that coaching and the competitive side, have been in my life for such a long time. There are [01:02:00] aspects I would love to instill upon coaches, especially when they get frustrated with these athletes who don't respond to the coaching aspect.
They want to do what they want to do. And I would try to just make everybody more aware of the simple fact that you're never alone. Mm-hmm. And that. We are, we are always just animals scratching at glass, right Liz? We have, we have these phones that have the whole world at our disposal. And if you have questions about what we're supposed to be doing or how we're supposed to be doing, you can ask those questions.
Do your own research listen to practical advice. That sounds like it's real, not popular stuff, not woo wooy stuff. But that we have the opportunity to take care of ourselves, and that's what this is all about. Absolutely. That's what the podcast is all about.
Liz Herl: Well, thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah.
Liz been good.
Tim Caldwell: This was a good topic. Thanks. Thanks for talking. And again, we ask people to join us and comment and like share and subscribe, like share and subscribe, all those.
Liz Herl: So, we wanna give you a little bit [01:03:00] of a nugget. Our next episode coming up, we'll actually be over genuine effort in bodybuilding systems.
It'll be all about Dr. Caldwell and his new adventure. Or adventure. Or adventure. Maybe it's both.
Tim Caldwell: It's an adventure. Yeah,
Liz Herl: it's an adventure. He will be starting his online training, coaching, yeah. Business. So we're gonna be able to be all the great details. Yep. And, you know, Dr. Caldwell's mission and goal and being able to continue to help people work on their body and their mind and their over mind, body and spirit.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, that's exactly right.
Liz Herl: So we hope you enjoy us. Or join us for that next episode. Thanks for listening. Absolutely.
Tim Caldwell: You guys take care of yourselves.
Liz Herl: Absolutely. And be kind.
Tim Caldwell: Absolutely. To yourself. Yeah, absolutely. And
Liz Herl: to others. Alright guys, talk. Don't go wild on everybody talk. Talk to you later.
Thanks guys. Bye. [01:04:00]