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The Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. Author and lead pastor of Sandals Church, Matt Brown debriefs current issues shaping our culture from a spiritual perspective.
Welcome to the debrief podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. On this show, pastor Matt sits down with his friends to answer your questions about life, Jesus, and the bible. Let's get into the episode.
Donna Martin:Welcome to the Debrief podcast with pastor Matthew Stephen Brown. How are doing?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Good. Thanks for having
Donna Martin:awesome. I'm Don Martin. Good to be your host, and I'm excited to hear you answer these questions.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:These are great man. So thank you again.
Donna Martin:You for sending in your questions. We love hearing from you, and we love hearing pastor Matt's perspective about this. So this is John from Riverside. Says, what if I can't remember all my sinful acts to confess? I've been a sinner for a very long time, and I have done and said a lot of bad things.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So my question and again, a podcast isn't a pastor. So if I was sitting down with John, my question would be, what is your concern? Is this a salvation issue? Or is this just a relational issue?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so we have to understand that, when we become born again, we are saved. And so the issue really is the conflation of two words. And I think you and I have talked about this before. The English word judgment and condemnation. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so Jesus Christ absolves us from the penalty of sin. The wages of sin are is death. And so a lot of Christians have forgotten this. And and you know John three sixteen. Right?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Do you know? So for God so loved the world that he gave begave his only begotten son that whosoever should believe with him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Correct. So what Jesus offers is eternal life
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:In contrast to death. So the wages of sin is death, the gift of God is eternal life. Both Christians and non Christians face judgment. And so I think the fear is, with a lot of people is, well, if I have unconfessed sin, will I be saved? Of
Donna Martin:course. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Of course. Here's the difference. Confess sin, first John one nine. If we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just, so there's justice Mhmm. To cleanse us of all unrighteousness.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So confessed sin will not be brought up on judgment day. Mhmm. It's gone. As far as the East is from the West. So here's where Christians get wonky.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I heard, a friend of mine say this the other day, Jesus forgave me of all my sins, past, present, and future. And I was like, okay. Forgave you of the penalty of those sins. Yeah. No no condemnation for your sins past, for your sins present, for your sins future.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:However, unconfessed sins will be dealt with on the day of judgment. This is the apostle Paul talks about this, Peter talks about this, Jesus talks about this, John talks about this, we will all stand before the judgment seat of So I don't have my sins and sin card because of Jesus. And when and when we read, like, Luke 19, the parable of the owner returning, he's ripping to shreds servants.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:These are servants that said, well, he's not coming back. And and so then you can say, are they saved, not saved? The issue is servants. The parable of the talents. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:All three are servants of the Lord. Mhmm. One with ten, one with five, one with two. What happens to the one with two? What he had is taken away and given to the one with 10.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So so there is a judgment that's based there. So what I would say is we need to put to bed our our fear of condemnation. Right? There's no fear in God's love.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I am going to be saved. Somehow, I am going to withstand the judgment of God because of the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. However, my unconfessed sins, the Lord's gonna wanna talk about. Yeah. And so, from time to time, I am reminded of things that I've done.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I don't know if that's the Holy Spirit
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Or just my own conscious working through things. And so here's what I do, is I just confess it to the Lord. Sometimes I'll chuckle. I'm like, well, forgot that one. And and I just bring it to the Lord.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I say, Lord, thank you for for dying on the cross for this. I just confess this to you. Yeah. And if I feel the need, not always, because when it's in the past, I don't have to tell everybody everything. I don't have to rehash everything, you know.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, like politics are these offense archaeologists, you know, they're they're gonna dig up things, you know, like when what's the Mormon guy that ran for president? Mitt Romney. Oh. They they dug up something he did in high school about a haircut. And I'm like, good lord.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's why good people don't run for political office because they just, you know, these offensive archaeologists, you know, or outrage archaeologists, you know, they gotta find something. And I think a lot of Christians are that way. They're worried that God's that way. Look, if if something is brought up to your mind and it's something that you did wrong, bring it to the Lord. Sometimes if it really bothers you, I would say confess to a pastor, confess to a fellow Christian, you know, share it with somebody and just say, hey, here's something I'm really letting go.
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And, years ago, I I went to a counselor and, actually doctor Kraft at Fuller Seminary. And I confessed something to him that I did in college. And I was like, do I need to tell everybody about this? And he's like, you can or you can't? He's like, you already confessed it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You confessed it to the Lord. He's like, you confessed it to me? He goes, I think we're good.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And he just set me free from that because we don't have to tell everybody everything. Yeah. Matter of fact, I would encourage you, don't tell everybody everything. I can't tell you how many times somebody's confessed something to me and I say, don't tell anybody else this.
Donna Martin:Right. Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Don't tell anybody else this. Because you know what I do when you confess? I go
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I I let it go. Like, I I have people that come up to me and they're like, oh my gosh, I told you this ten years ago. I'm like, I don't remember.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Now, if it's crazy crazy, I remember. Right. But, you know, I just I let it go because that's what the Lord does. Right? When we confess to him, he lets it go.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And some people, man, they want that juice to take attention off them and put it on you. And and a lot of people just are mean when it comes to things that you share. So be really really careful who you share your marriage sins with, your personal sins with. Man, if
Donna Martin:you're
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:battling sexuality, be careful who you share that with. Yeah. You know, because I'm I'm not gonna tell people. So sometimes people will catch Tammy and I and they think I tell Tammy what they confessed to me. And I never tell Tammy.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because first of all, who wants to hear that all day? Right. And second of all, we have a marriage and a relationship and people that gossip don't have relationships. And so I don't tell her those things because I don't wanna put that on her. But a lot of times people are like, well, you know, because Matt's told you and she's like, have no idea.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I what's shared in counseling, what's shared in confession, it ends there. And I think that that's important for all of us. So be really, really careful. You know, and some pastors, just so you know, at Sandals Church, we say it's okay to confess up. So if a campus pastor, you confess to them and they're not sure what to do, they're allowed to ask me or ask an elder or ask somebody else.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So you're allowed to go up, not down, not sideways because we don't we don't want everybody knowing all of your junk. That's that doesn't make people feel safe and secure. So what I would just say is if the Lord brings it up, great. Confess it, deal with it, work through it. But I would not worry at all about the things that I can't remember.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I would actually say that's freedom. That's actually the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ working in your life, and I would celebrate that. And and I mean, you could say, I threw the card. What's his name? John.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:John. Sorry, John. I threw your card. See, I already forgot your name. I would just say a prayer like this.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Lord Jesus, you and I both know that there's things I've done
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That I haven't confessed. And I can't remember all of those things. Lord, would you forgive me of those things? Yeah. And the things that you want to specifically talk about, would you bring those to my mind?
Donna Martin:Mhmm. Amen.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's And I believe the Lord Jesus would would will bring those to your mind. And, you know, but once you've confessed something, see the devil's sneaky. Once you've confessed something, if it's brought back up
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's not Jesus. That's your accuser.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because he loves to listen to prayers. Mhmm. Like, that's what I love about what's CS Lewis' book where the demons are talking? Screw letters. Tape letters.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:They're listening to our prayers. And so and how to trip us up and mess us up. And so, men, the accuser loves to say, you know what, Donna? You weren't really forgiven for that. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I actually had that. And I talk about that in my book. I can't remember which chapter it is, but where I was harboring unforgiveness and it was the enemy. And I was holding on to these things. And you just gotta let that go because it'll destroy you.
Donna Martin:Absolutely. Yeah. So good.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Oh, man. Dude, this this has got off great. That was a
Donna Martin:good question. Awesome. That was a This great is Rosalie from Fontana, California, and
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:she says I threw Rosalie's card too.
Donna Martin:You did? Says how did Hang on. Wait. We'll just
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:cut for a second on the graphics card. Hang on. Hang Hang on. Sorry, Rosalie. So good.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Okay.
Donna Martin:Alright. We're back. Hey. This is Rosalie from Fontana, California. And she says, how did people know of God and know how to walk in a life that would be acceptable to him and have a relationship with him before the Bible?
Donna Martin:Seems like without the word, there'd be no structure for them to follow.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right. So, Rosalie, Romans one is a great place to sit. And what Romans one says that people know the truth of God. Mhmm. So human beings know you shouldn't kill people.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, we just have this sense, like, I I shouldn't kill people. And all cultures, not all, but most cultures, you know, the exception is if someone's attacking, then we have permission. Now there are cultures that become violent. We're actually gonna talk about one of those cultures, Nineveh Yeah. In the Big Fish series that's coming up.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I'm super excited. I'm preaching out of Jonah for our politics Wonderful. Yes. Beautiful. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:A lot of people don't realize Jonah is a political book and we need to learn how to love our enemies because Jonah struggled. Yeah. But go to Romans one
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And and just people know. People know right from wrong. Now, does that mean we don't need to be taught? No. Of course not.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We need to be taught. That needs to be refined. But in the, in the New Testament, the gospel of Matthew, wise men come. In in the Bible, it's not wise men, it's magi. Do you know what English word we get from magi?
Donna Martin:Magic?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Magic. These are magicians. Mhmm. Magicians without the scriptures. Magicians without the word of God know that the son of God has been born to the Jews.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:How do they know this? Well, they tell us. Saw something in the heavens.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right? And so everyone, horoscopes, it's all evil. It's okay. A lot of it is. There's some truth.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The Bible says even the heavens declare the glory of God. All truth is God's truth. A lot of people lose their minds because we use the Enneagram here. Like, well, it's a cultish. And I what I tell people is, you're right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:When Satan tempted Jesus, he quoted the Enneagram. Oh, the word of God. Sorry. So we need to understand this that that God can use all kinds of things to bring people to his truth. That includes the Enneagram, that includes whatever magic the wise men were practicing in the East.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So I'm not I'm not saying you should use magic. The Bible says you shouldn't, but that's what you learn after you become a Christian. Mhmm. So here's the thing you need to know. Magic and the heavens got the wise men to Jerusalem.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. The word of God got them to Bethlehem. Yeah. So we need the word of God for specifics. So what do people know?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:People know that there's something that's good. They know that there's a God. Now, may not be able to name that God. And they have this sense. Every culture that we know of on earth has this sense that there's an impending judgment.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Native Americans, Incans, the Chinese. Right? Vietnamese, cultures all around the world have this feeling and sense culturally in their myths, in their religions that there's a God. And by the way, there's a great book called out called The Evolution of of of God and all religions start off believing in one God. And then they move to multiple gods.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So it's very, interesting. And, man, it's a great book by I'll I'll it in the notes, but it's a professor from Baylor University and it was that book blew my mind. So Hinduism started off with one god and then goes out. And so so the one God we we have this this this conscious, unconscious understanding that there's a God, that there's judgment. We need revelation to know what to do with it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So that's why we can preach the gospel to people that aren't Christians Mhmm. That aren't Jews. They already have a sense in that. So what does Romans one say? They rejected that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:They rejected listen to this, the truth for a lie. Mhmm. And instead of worshiping the creator, they worship created things. And God is gonna judge them for that. So then it moves into, right, ultimately, Romans eight one, you know, Romans chapter 10.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right? Romans is this amazing book. People need the gospel, but God is going to reveal himself to them. So the question is
Donna Martin:Yeah. So how can they have a relationship with God, you know, before they had the bible? Right. How how could people come to God if there was no structure or anything for them to follow?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right. So what I believe is in progressive revelation. But even in Genesis chapter four, it says this is the first time people began to worship and call in the name of Yahweh. Yeah. So so we see that even in Genesis chapter four.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So originally, all human beings, Adam and Eve, knew of God. Mhmm. Then they sinned and they were cut off from God, but God was still with them.
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So one of my favorite passages there is when Cain kills Abel, the Lord is still speaking. Yeah. He's still there even though there's sin. He's still speaking, and he's challenging him to do right. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Sin is crouching at your door, but you must master it. And so so God is working and God has spoken. And so, people kind of have a general sense of of God. The gospel is the specific sense or the illuminated sense. So I would say, what did people do before?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Well, there's this great passage in second Peter where it says that Jesus died on the cross and ascended unto hell. Listen to this. Preaching the gospel. Yeah. I don't know what that means, but what I think it means is everybody got a chance.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Everybody got a chance to hear the good news. And it probably isn't hell. It's probably the realm of the dead, and he's speaking to people. And so as Jesus is announcing the gospel, what what is he saying?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:These people already know right from wrong. They have a sense Mhmm. And people can respond to that. So what we need to do as Christians is we need to to give people the specific truth of the gospel. But people have a general sense of what's right from wrong.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:People people know they shouldn't kill people.
Donna Martin:And God is at work in humanity.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right? I mean,
Donna Martin:the Holy Spirit is in that world right now convicting of sin. People people have this idea that there is God and that, again, like you said, that there is right from wrong, and I think that the Lord is so faithful and so good to bring us to the truth, but Yeah. We can't reject it when he brings it to us.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. And it's why Christians was it Rosalie? Mhmm. I think by the year 2033, the Bible the New Testament will be translated in 99.9% of all languages. Wow.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And by the way, Christians, Jesus said he won't return until the whole world has Yep. So we're getting close. Amen. We're getting really close. So Awesome.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Great question.
Donna Martin:Thank you so much, Rosalie. That was awesome. Okay. This is Annie Moss. Yes.
Donna Martin:We've given her an official name. Annie Moss from California says, I know someone that accepts the gospel. They serve, pray, tithe, read the Bible, are in small groups, study apologetics, cry out to God, yet at the end of the day, they neither feel God's presence or are convinced cognitively that he exists. How can they have a relationship with God when they seem to be doing all the right things but don't feel his presence? This is a very interesting question to me.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes.
Donna Martin:They neither feel God's presence not or are convinced cognitively
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right.
Donna Martin:That he exists.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Well, so I'm gonna back up, Annie. So you said I know someone that accepts Yeah. The Okay. So how do you accept the gospel if you don't believe in God? So that would be my question.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right. They serve. Okay. Well, yeah, maybe they they wanna be a good person. They pray, they tithe.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Wow.
Donna Martin:Praise God.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And they read the bible and are
Donna Martin:In small groups.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Real in small groups. They study apologetics and cry out to God, and yet at the end of the day, they neither feel God's presence or are convinced cognitively that he exists. So there's really two issues. So I think one is, oftentimes, like, certain personalities feel and experience God in different ways. Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Just like certain people feel music and experience music in different ways, and we gotta be careful not to assume that every personality will feel and experience God in the same way.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We need to allow people to feel and experience him in their own way through the truth of the gospel, but they have to experience that. So I think we need to press on. So let's take the cognitive thing out. Yeah. Let's just focus on, they neither feel God's presence.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:How do we feel God? Okay? And I thought a lot about this question. So I have my grandson that'll be born on December 31, January 1, somewhere in there. I've not met him, but I believe that he exists.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I've not seen him, but I can see the evidence of his existence. One day, I look forward to holding him and seeing him. The same is true of Christianity. We we believe God based upon the evidence. Right?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, we're not we're not expected just to believe God purely out of faith. Jesus is a historical person. Mhmm. He actually died and was murdered by Romans. He actually rose from the dead and was seen by, Peter says, over 500 witnesses.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. So, like, there's evidence. Who wrote the book Evidence Demands a Verdict? Somebody Lee Strobel's Evidence Demands a Verdict. So that guy's an attorney working for the Chicago Tribune.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:He's an atheist. He says God's not real because his wife became a Christian. He goes out to disprove Christianity and he became Christian. It's a great, great book. So there is evidence.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But here's the thing is, is ultimately one day I'm gonna hold my grandson in the same way one day I will be held by God. And those are different experiences. The question is, how do we experience God today? And here's the answer, in the same way that I experience my grandson today, through my daughter. Listen to this very carefully.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I was praying through this when you guys sent me this question. My grandson lives within my daughter. I experienced him through her. I put my hand on her belly today. I could feel him moving inside her.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:How do we have a real relationship with God? We have a real relationship with God primarily through experiencing Him in real time as He lives inside other believers.
Donna Martin:That's good.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So, and I think a lot of us miss out on that. I experienced God and his presence through others. This is why in John thirteen thirty five, Jesus says, the world will know that you are my disciples. Yeah. How?
Donna Martin:Where you love.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because of your love for each other. Because of the experience and relationship they get because I live in you. So we experience God through worship, through the reading and teaching of scripture, through praying and through worship. But the way I experience God's heart for me is through Donna. He lives in Donna.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Donna loves me. How you've been healed at Sandals Church. You've experienced Jesus through the healing of people at Sandals Church who've loved you and held you as you healed. Right. It's why community is so, so important.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah, absolutely. And I truly believe that a lot of people who rejected God are merely rejecting the fact that they have not experienced God through the love of others. Because when you experience that, the love that I have at Sandals Church, the brotherhood that I have, friends like you and Devon, it is a bond that is so incredibly powerful and so real. And my wife and I, we say over and over again, we are so grateful for the church because they have loved us so well. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And and and they've been so good to us, and we have experienced God's love so many times through people. I mean, think about the message that I preached last week. Tithing
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Serving, right, welcoming. None of these things are natural. None of these things are natural. Like, I mean, how many of our listeners, you go to the same gym every day and talk to no one? No one at my gym talks to anybody.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Looks at anybody, smiles at anybody, no one. They all got their headphones on and they're sulking making videos of themselves. That's what's happening at my gym. K? My if if my gym owner demanded 10%, no one would go.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right. If my gym owner demanded, right, you start serving. So you gotta tie 10% here and serve for free and welcome people.
Donna Martin:And serve for free.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So how on earth does that happen at Sandals? And here's how it happens. People have really experienced God, and they really love their church. And and they really like, right now, our church, we are building a campus in Redlands, and no one goes there.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. No one goes there, no one attends there. We're spending a couple million dollars. Think about that. For people that haven't even gone to church yet.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Why is that? Because we have Jesus in our hearts, Mhmm. And we love these people even though we don't know them yet. Yeah. That's how we experience God through others.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And and that's the power. So let's go back to James five sixteen. Confess your sins one to another.
Donna Martin:Yes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So listen to this, Annie, so that you may be whole and healed. What does he need to experience? He needs to confess to the group. I don't know that I believe. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And then you guys need to hold him and help him heal and help him see Jesus. John thirteen thirty five, they will know that you are my disciples because you love one another. I sat in counseling this week with a woman in our church who confessed some things that I don't think she wants to tell anyone. Yeah. And she had to look me in the face and tell me, here's what I did, and here's what happened.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. I cannot imagine. I cannot imagine. You know, I attended Harvest, we're about the same size as Harvest. I cannot imagine being her age and sitting down with Greg Laurie Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And saying, here's what I did, here's what happened. I got a text from her afterwards, and she said, I I can't believe the love that I felt Yeah. In that moment. Yeah. I felt so held, so valued, and and I mean, she's confessing the most shameful thing
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Ever in her life.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And what she experienced was the arms of Jesus. And what I talked about was the woman caught in the act of adultery. What does Jesus do? He writes on the ground. What is He doing?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:He's taking the attention off her and He's putting it on Himself.
Donna Martin:And
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:she felt that. And it's those moments, right? Where not on our best day, but our worst day, and we experience grace, radical grace that changes us. And in that moment, we meet Jesus.
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I'm so grateful for her and I'm so hopeful for her that that moment will be a catalyst for her leaving her life of sin and really pursuing Jesus' hardcore. But it's in those moments of grace that we meet Jesus, but we we need it through each
Donna Martin:each other. Other.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And, you know, I don't think I shared this in the recorded version, but psychologists are saying what's happening to our kids with everything being on screen is they're they're missing the sparkle in each other's eye. Like, when I came in here today and I saw you, did you feel like I was happy to see you?
Donna Martin:Yeah. Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I was like, Donna. Looked better than me again. It makes me so mad. But but that actually is essential to you as a human Absolutely. Being to know that pastor Matt loves you, is excited to see you, is glad that you're here.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We all need that. And, that's what happens in church when we're at our worst, when we need prayer, when we had a tough day, we're raising teenagers. Right? And people see us and we feel that spark, that love. And I shared with the Hunter Park team that the Lord knew this thousands of years ago in Deuteronomy when he said these words, may the Lord bless you.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. May the Lord keep you. Listen to these words. May the Lord's face shine upon you and give you hope. And that's what the world's missing, is the face of God seeing them.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I'm glad you're here. I love you. And that's the church. That's The the church is the face of Jesus, and we're so glad you're here, and we love you so much. And I I'm glad you're here with all your problems, all your crap, all your shame.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We all get to go to the same cross, and we're cleansed by the same blood. And it's one of the things I'm gonna talk about in our vision series, why we now do the Lord's Supper every week.
Donna Martin:It's my favorite thing.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Thank you. And it's because it's because
Donna Martin:Like, I know this is costing a fortune Yeah. Yeah. And it's my favorite
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:day. Yes. It is costing a fortune. So make sure you tell Brian Schlatt that because he's the one that pays the bills. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I think it's $200,000 a year
Donna Martin:Oh, I believe it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:For those cups.
Donna Martin:Like, go on Amazon and Google how much a box of those cups are. Yeah. Think about how many calories
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:we have. Every week. Because without that broken body
Donna Martin:That's right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And without that blood
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We we are done. And and we get to experience that together. So what I would just say, Annie
Donna Martin:Can I amplify something
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:you said?
Donna Martin:Yes. Just think this is so the thing that came to my mind, there was two things. So she's not cognitively convinced, but she's doing all these things. So there's a little bit that I don't understand in that, but I think what you said about what might be important as well. The first thing that came to my mind is like, does this person come from a different tradition that feels like and they feel like they need to experience God in a particular way Yeah.
Donna Martin:In order to know that it's real or that it's working or that whatever. So that was the first thing I thought. The second thing I thought is something that you said, is to really be careful to not compare Mhmm. The way that Matt Brown experiences the presence of God from the way that I experience the presence of God, or how you hear God speak to you in a moment at UPS Yeah. Right, while you're getting a box.
Donna Martin:Right? From the way that I might see something and go or, you know, I get it I I usually get a picture in my brain, I go, I think that's God. Right? Yeah. And so, number one, I would say, strip off any religion of how you are supposed to feel or experience or, you know That was the first thing that came my mind, I'm just gonna say it.
Donna Martin:Like, I don't know if you that person is from a different tradition, or have seen in a different tradition, and they feel like maybe they're experiencing the presence of God in a specific way that looks different than anybody else around you. But then also just really lean into how do I hear or experience God? And I may not feel an impression, but for me, I usually get a word picture, and I know, I think that's the Holy Spirit. Right?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm.
Donna Martin:And so I I just kinda wanna because I think you said some you said, you know, that we all experience God differently.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes.
Donna Martin:And and it's personal to to the way your personality and how God speaks in you and through you. And so, I don't know. I just felt like I wanted to amplify that.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Great question. Great great question. And I'll be praying Annie Moss for your friend. And, man, love them.
Donna Martin:Yes. Fantastic questions. Well, thank you for checking out this episode. You can always submit your own questions by going to move.sc/ask, or you can submit on the app, or sometimes we take questions from social media as well. So you can post there.
Donna Martin:If you're following us on social media, Put something in the comments, and hopefully our team will see it. Thank you so much. Thank you. That was awesome. Yes.
Donna Martin:God bless you guys. Have a great day.
Scott Schutte:Thanks for checking out this episode. If you'd like to support this podcast, you can donate at sandalschurch.com/support. This podcast is a way for pastor Matt Brown to answer your questions about topics like the Bible, God, relationships, and culture. Like pastor Matt often says on the show, a podcast is not a pastor. If you like prayer or need to speak with someone about a specific situation you were going through, you can email us at help@sandalschurch.com.
Scott Schutte:If you enjoy this podcast, please like, comment, and subscribe. Thanks for being a debrief listener.