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Everybody Else is a podcast about the invisible people who make life happen. What began as conversations with behind-the-scenes builders in the music industry has grown into a broader exploration of how people think, work, and carry responsibility across industries and across disciplines. Hosted by Wes Luttrell, the show centers on thoughtful dialogue with creatives, leaders, and operators whose work often goes unseen but shapes the world we live in. New episodes streaming every Tuesday.
Wesley Luttrell (00:00.758)
This is the Everybody Else Podcast.
Wesley Luttrell (00:19.17)
been a weird week. I haven't felt the best. I came down with a stomach bug for a couple days in the midst of a, we got 12 and a half inches of snow, which is, I don't know if that's a record, but it's gotta be close. It's more than I remember in recent years. But, know, slowing down because of the weather, slowing down because of you know, a little stomach sickness, it creates an opportunity to slow down in the mind and to reflect and to think and,
In the midst of this, I realized that there was an idea circling in my head that is finding its way onto different situations in my work life, onto different projects or different organizations that I think there are through lines that are really bubbling up that I'm excited to unpack here today. And I want you to know that this is not a final critique or a thesis. This is definitely a field report or a working
you know, a working narrative. And it is not about good or bad. It is, to me, this is purely about analyzing systems. And by the end of the podcast, I would like to propose questions for you as a listener to, you know, ask what the organization or the systems that you are involved in, do they align with you? Do you find yourself aligned with the mode that your organization is operating in?
because it could tell you a lot about how it feels going to work every day. Or even if you're running a business, it could tell you a lot about how the people who work with you, how they feel. So this idea came to me through a recent talk that I heard given by a priest about the Catholic Church moving from maintenance mode to mission mode. And it was a really inspiring talk because
to me it snapped into frame a lot of the things that I've been thinking and gave language to and insight to the experiences that I'm having in certain rooms. Whereas before I couldn't understand why, for example, if I'm in a boardroom meeting, why are, and some of the people who have been there for a long time aren't speaking up about the changes that they think need to be made.
Wesley Luttrell (02:45.134)
question why are people quiet? Is it that they don't care or that they don't know what to say? Or is it, why do people, you know, I talked to a friend recently who got burned out at a job and I think to myself, how is it possible? She's such a great enthusiastic worker and shows up, you know, a pro. How is it possible that this system, that it didn't work out for her? Is it misalignment or is the system itself truly broken?
And so as I started thinking about this breakdown of system operational modes through the lens of maintenance versus mission, I go back to this talk that I heard by this priest. He's saying that the structures, the buildings, the systems, they were built for a different era. In the era we find ourselves in today, the language that we're using, the responsibilities that we have, they're not, like what got us here won't get us there.
And so we really have to rethink the mode of operation of the church itself. And going from maintenance to mission, if you think about it from the church, from the ecclastical organization, you would think institution, like we protect the institution and it ain't broke, don't fix it, versus a mission mode would be an apostolic church, which is focused on spreading the teachings and growing the body of the church.
And so I realized, you know, during this last couple of days that I've been down that this framework applies far beyond churches. So one easy way to think about maintenance mode would be an organization that is primarily playing defense versus in mission mode, an organization is primarily playing offense. Again, these are not, these modes are not moral categories. They are functional realities. This is just the way that the organization is oriented.
Now, where things become a problem is not in defense or offense. Because a good defense without an offense doesn't go anywhere. A good offense without a defense is unprotected and chaotic. And so the problem occurs when the organization itself is confused about what mode it's operating in. This creates...
Wesley Luttrell (05:10.638)
because organizations are made up of people, the tension inside the organization, it comes from people operating in different modes at the same time. So let's take a look first at maintenance mode. A saying that comes to mind is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And in maintenance mode, the characteristics of the organization will be that they seek stability over change, security over risk, preservation over creation, and
often are subsidized either financially, structurally, or culturally. And then systems are optimized to protect what exists. When I think about an organization in maintenance mode, again, this is not good or bad, it's just when it's in this mode, which is what, by the way, the Catholic Church has been in for a long time, it is that, and then this works this way into, you
all other secular organizations. Innovation is possible, but it is incremental. It's not prioritized. Change is slow and it's carefully managed. Authority is positional and questioning the system can feel destabilizing. So when I go back to what I said earlier about the quiet people in the boardroom,
It's not that they're disengaged, it's just that silence is, it's often a behavior of a maintenance mode. Why would we question it? It's not broke, we're not trying to fix it. Why would we try to innovate it? It could just cause disruption. And so we're going to avoid that. Again, maintenance mode isn't wrong, it's just how organizations survive at different times in their life. So now mission mode. Here's the difference.
And the core characteristics of mission mode would be action oriented towards shared vision and mission. Innovation is welcomed and rewarded. Ideas are tested, not dismissed. Risk is measured, not avoided. Cultural signals of a mission mode would be authority is exercised, not just held. The authority has responsibility and takes responsibility. Autonomy exists inside clear values and
Wesley Luttrell (07:33.134)
inside of clear designation. And actions are questioned against mission, not hierarchy. In mission mode, a clear vision, a clear mission. And then alignment oriented towards that through the entire organization is priority. So if we think about the people operating inside of mission mode, it can feel
It can feel chaotic to maintenance trained people. If someone, like I said, has been in an organization that has been in maintenance mode for over a decade or longer, beginning to operate in mission mode is foreign to them. The operating system itself, they're just not used to, it can just feel like this is chaos, we're not getting anywhere. It's all up in the air when really it is.
It feels alive to somebody who is aligned with, well, let's innovate, let's change, let's mix it up. Let's orient towards what's best based off of the vision and the mission. Let's actually make a move. The reason I wanted to share this today is because I feel personally like I've been through this in my own life. And I feel that some of the organizations that I'm now working with as an advisor are going through this.
I feel that there are individuals who I talk to on a regular basis who are going through this. And I've thought about this a lot in Nashville when I was obsessed with Nashville last year. I kept thinking about like, you know, I think a lot of people who are trying to quote unquote make it in Nashville aren't necessarily aware, I mean in terms of artists, aren't necessarily aware of the game that they're playing. I think a lot of young artists aren't aware of the game that exists.
in the music industry or the modes that exist in the music industry, the way that the organizations are incentivized and set up. it's a really murky, it's not like it's an obvious thing, you know? And they're different, the systems operate differently across different sectors of that industry. But I thought about that a lot last year and then now it's coming up a lot this year. And I think what a lot of what we experience,
Wesley Luttrell (09:47.662)
It's as personal, you know, what we experience as not fitting into a situation or something not working, it's just misalignment with the mode that the organization is in or that the sector is in or that the endeavor is in. And it really helps reframe this idea that people are wrong or systems are bad. It could just be an unhealthy system.
it could just be a confused system. And if you're operating in that with a clear role, but you don't realize that the system itself is confused, it's gonna feel like friction constantly. And it's gonna feel like you just can't even measure whether or not progress is being made. And you think like, but I thought people wanted this to be better. And you try to propose better and people are like, you're effing this all up by trying to, like we,
Everything's fine here, don't do anything. And at the same time, you could be in a mission-driven or a mission-mode company where people who are maintenance-oriented, they're in there saying, like, we need to slow this down. We need to secure these things. We need to structure, we need to create less chaos.
And it could be like, no, no, no, that will actually slow us down. We need to go full speed ahead. We do not need to protect everything that we, you know, once owned or owned. We need to go all in on what is actually going to work out for us in the long run, what is actually sustainable. And so, simply put, sometimes the mode and the person simply don't match. I leave you with this. I invite you to consider
following questions. What mode is your organization in? What mode are you operating in? Are those aligned? And if not, what does that explain?