Tyson (00:00.082)
All right, recording is done. You're there, recording, good. Man, I was looking at your Instagram this morning. I thought this might be a nice place to start. Inspire health and fitness by connecting to the endurance athlete that lies within all of us. I feel like it's a good quote, because whenever I hear you speak, it's always more than just about endurance performance. Hey, it's about health, it's about wellness, it's about not just fitness, but psychology. There's so many components that you look at. But I haven't heard many coaches
explain their philosophy as tapping into the endurance that's within all of us. I thought maybe I could hand you that baton to talk to you for a couple of minutes because it's an interesting place to start.
Chris Hauth (00:35.604)
Yeah
Chris Hauth (00:40.18)
Yeah, it is. and it's basically the foundation of how I coach and everything I talk about. And that is more that I believe there's an endurance athlete living within all of us. It's sort of how we evolved as humans, right? Yeah, there's this persistence hunting theory and so forth, but our ability to go long, to go for many hours for any days, even, in all kinds of conditions is sort of how we evolved. And that's the beauty of
what we are as endurance athletes. Now endurance means different things to a lot of different people, which is totally okay. But I'm trying to tap into the curiosity of that and how far can I go or how long can I do this? Or I wonder how fast I can be at that marathon. If I have that curiosity along with that passion in general, because you wouldn't be
doing this or you wouldn't have started this if there wasn't some sort of passion in the first place. But curiosity is one of the key ingredients to get anything done. so finding out more about what our potential is, what we're capable of, I think that's a huge driver of desire and consistency over time, which consistency over time, as we know, builds endurance, which then gives us more
validation insights into who we are and what we can become and so forth. So that's sort of from the basics standpoint. I never say no to an athlete of when they come to me with their dreams or what they're looking to achieve, right? Because it's just a question of when, not if, for most of us. Hey, you want to swim the English channel? That's fine. It might not happen in six months.
But can it happen in two, three, four, five years? Sure. So our training, your training depends on the duration of time to what you say you want to achieve. Now, endurance allows for that. If you're looking to dunk a basketball, that might be a little bit more challenging. We might not get there ever. But the beauty of endurance, running, swimming, biking, whatever it is, rocking, hiking, walking,
Chris Hauth (03:01.078)
I mean, those are all these days endurance events that, or any combination of them that we can get there. It's, it's not about winning. It's about achieving said outcome.
Tyson (03:12.506)
Yeah, I mean, consistency and timeframe are two really solid foundations to start any conversation around running from because from my experience, I mean, both as a runner and as a coach, I find that it's often impatience that's my biggest hurdle when it comes to trying to achieve a certain result, whether that's impatience to actually hit a time or impatience that causes me to train maybe more or harder than I really should, which leads to breakdown and frustration. And I find a lot of the time
Yeah, if you can expand that time frame, just give yourself a little bit of breathing space. There's like even more joy that comes into the training because it's like, it's not such a rush. It's not so intense. Your body absorbs it more. But I mean, that's something that we all seem to learn over time. What's the, well, you've been in coaching now for 25 years and like an athlete for a lot longer before that. mean, examples in your own career of times of impatience.
Chris Hauth (04:00.958)
Yeah, yeah, it's
Chris Hauth (04:06.298)
absolutely. Right. Like we get the validation in the training and we believe we are on set linear path towards something. Therefore I should be able to do, if I do this in training, therefore in races, I should be able to do that. and we know over years of doing this, that that's not how it works. Right. There's times I remember even as a swimmer, you know, from the training standpoint, then the numbers, the splits.
how I was feeling was so good that I almost didn't even think about that event going into a national or an international competition. And I put more focus, ooh, this one I'm not so sure about. Well, the one that I didn't think about that I thought I was so prepared for is the one I didn't do as well as I wanted to. And then the one that I really focused on was like a little bit of a push or a surprise jump in performance or time. So it's never just.
inputs equal outputs, right? And so that patience as you're talking about is a huge component of that and that's where you sort of shift in the beauty of Masters athletics when you're not really dealing with high school or college or even professional where you're getting a paycheck and you're doing this for a living. That being able to change that mindset shift that psychology of what this is for and
The earlier we can use, for me, I like to use endurance events to have that deeper conversation with my clients about the earlier we understand that our best effort, given of who we currently are, not five years ago, not when we were 19, not when we were 25, but currently, given our children, given our work, given our current life, given the miles on our body or whatever that is, if we're giving it our best,
the acceptance of that and allowing this to unfold how it needs to unfold, right? That's part of the journey. I like to say an adventure. Well, it's not my saying, I read it somewhere. An adventure is a journey with an unknown outcome. We're on this journey of life. It's an adventure. And sure, we insert athletic events or personal events.
Chris Hauth (06:29.138)
or even work events into some of those milestones, but the journey is unknown. it's like, we can force it all we want, but we don't know. getting upset about it or getting too uptight about it, that's not gonna bring out our best. And we also all know, whether it's in athletics, but in other aspects of our lives, heck, we've all felt it as children, when we're just relaxed and having fun, often our best result comes.
And that's why I often ask the athlete, like, just think back when you did your first half marathon or your first marathon or your first Olympic distance triathlon or your first whatever, sometimes that time is not that much slower than all this training later is. Why? Because you went in it with a form of play, with a form of just being relaxed, curiosity, seeing what will happen without putting the pressure on ourselves. And next thing you know, you actually had a pretty good event.
Tyson (07:28.954)
It's so funny how that works. I've spoken about this before, but I remember sort of tapping into this at a couple of significant moments in my own running career. I was middle distance, like 1500 to 5K. I remember like tension was always something I struggled with a little bit, lean the lead up to a race. And I remember a coach of mine who was always also a friend. was like, what if you took an attitude of almost yet, like you just don't care about the outcome into this race. I mean, I sort of tried to tap into that philosophy before, but a couple of times I really hooked in.
And I remember like I took it to an extreme where, you know, race starter would be like, all right, on your marks and everyone would get down in their real serious position. And I remember just standing at the start line, just like almost feet together and just being like, okay, this is a little bit over the top. But the relaxation that I took into that race, I remember for about the first four laps just going, this is unbelievable. Like there's a freedom that comes with sort of letting yourself free from that attachment to the...
to the result and I know exactly what you're talking about because in every aspect of my life, if I can just sort of, you said a quote, I was listening to you and the extra my list, Florence Gimmon last night on the way home from Melbourne and there was something you said that I was like, I get what he's talking about. You mentioned a quote where it's like, I don't know where I'm going but I know how to get there and I was like, what a quote.
Chris Hauth (08:47.476)
Yeah, yeah, that's quote from a book, Alliance Tracker's Guide to Life. And it's a great short read. I recommend it to a lot of people. It is my most recommended book. And it's great because it allows you sort of just to relax. Like, I know how to do this, but I don't necessarily need to know every step along the way. I find...
Life's journey and I know this is a big picture, but even in the smaller things that we do and athletics is a great insight into how we do everything, right? How we do one thing seriously is sort of how we do everything. and so therefore you sort of want to do it right, but that is this vision of you're stepping that next step. And you know how in, in movies or in, in shows early on in childhood, that next step, that
still that stone still has to fall under your foot, right? It's almost like they're walking in space and that last second that path just sort of solidifies under you. That's sort of how this works. We did the work. We know that we have to take that unknown next step, but that's part of the fun and the curiosity and the joy in this is that we don't have all the answers and not knowing where to go, but I know how to get there.
That just captures it all.
Tyson (10:12.678)
That's cool. It's interesting as well, because I mean, like every major religion or spirituality seems to have a story of, of like just living by faith. mean, yeah, you read the Bible and it speaks about the Israelites being provided with like manna from heaven. And they were never like a lot of them when they tried to store it up and keep it, it would go bad. It would go off. And it was God saying, no, no, like, Hey, tomorrow I'll send you some more. But you just got to trust that rock's going to be placed under your foot. But it's a, yeah, it's so funny how difficult it is to do because I'm not sure what you're like, but I'm a bit of a planner.
and the idea of having like a 74 step plan on what I'm gonna do next Wednesday. Like there's a part of that, my brain that gets off on it and I go, okay, no good, I know where I'm going. But then if you get to step three and you hit a curve ball, I mean it derails really quickly. So is that something you did? Yeah.
Chris Hauth (10:57.494)
Plus, plus it's a dopamine question, right? Like it's each time you check off one of the steps, you get that little hit. Now in some instances when you're starting to overcome a big task or hurdle, those little momentum hits of dopamine might be helpful. But when we're just doing it to hit the hit, the little hits, and then great, we got 74 hits and we got at the end of the, of the, the, the list or of the checklist.
That's not really the point because then you're doing it just for those things versus the big thing at the end, right? Delayed gratification, there's a reason for that. And so the other thing there is we usually do our best when we let go of control. Just think about running. Running is a great example and I have to work with lot of athletes who want to achieve another level, whether it's national level or elite levels and some.
The pain you feel when you have a really good race, like that burning, that overcoming discomfort and staying there and pushing even harder. Like discomfort comes not only am I going to maintain this, I'm going to push even harder when that you have to get familiar with that. But our body resists that in a strong way. And for many people, many athletes,
Once they felt that once or twice, their body fights them harder and harder every time you want to go back to that spot. So you have to train being in that spot. And that's a lot of effort to be there. Right. That's why I think milers and 1500 meter runners and up to 5,000, that's one of the hardest things because you, have to face the discomfort, really have the dance with that devil and then keep going even harder. You need another gear waiting there. And so
For many that aren't familiar with that, you are a runner, so you're familiar with that. But for triathletes that are new to this distance or swimmers or things like that who are just coming to it later in life without the experience of knowing what you know from having done it, they often never get back to that spot. And so oftentimes, I try to have the athlete just fail. Like, I'll do a field test. My goal today is that you fail by number three, five by one miles.
Chris Hauth (13:20.2)
or this Olympic distance race, if you get to mile, you know, 10 K run. So if you get to eight K in and you haven't failed, you're not walking. You didn't go hard enough, right? I want them to get familiar with like, wow, there is a whole nother gear. Your best runs come when you've realized behind that difficulty is another gear where you're relaxed and you're like, my God, I don't know why I was usually I run up into this, but
All the glycogen was everything was working perfectly heart rate, everything breathing pattern. I was just in this place and I felt like I can hold it forever. But you got to break through the wall to get there. that's again, you just got to get past the checklist for that. That's why I brought that up. It's an unknown place.
Tyson (14:09.682)
It's really good point. I mean, it's really interesting because when you speak about it, it makes sense. Like the idea of having faith in the journey, putting in the steps and just letting that ground fall underneath you is good. But when you have a new athlete come to you, I'm sure a lot of the time when a new athlete starts, they do start with, okay, Chris, I'm trying to run a marathon in 12 months time. You go, sweet, let's plan for that. There is some element of scaffold that takes place like a structure within that.
overarching goal that you need to take practical steps towards. Like, how do you go about navigating those practical steps on the way? Like, there's little sign posts on the way that say, you're on your way, or hey, we need to adjust. How do you navigate that?
Chris Hauth (14:50.719)
Well, I like to start really wide, right? We're making progress. We're going down a six lane, seven lane highway. And for now we're heading in the right direction, right? We have that North star, that's something off on the horizon, that marathon, that's what we're heading towards. And for now, the training plan is pretty wide, vague, simple beginner, right? And I don't care how advanced you are, we'll get through this phase quicker then. But as we get to know each other,
athlete and I and we see where the limiters are, right? Breaking through the wall for some, not many, but for some isn't the limiter. They almost like to do it. They're like, go hard or go home. It's like, well, then we're working with something different, right? So then that highway goes down to a two lane highway or a one lane road where you're more and more specific along the way as you're getting closer to the horizon and so forth.
know, sickness or an injury, you know, takes us off the highway. We're on a side road for a little bit, but that's fine. We still want to be heading in the right direction. And so there's many validations along the way. Let's say they'll do a 10K road race. Let's say they'll do a half marathon in training, or let's say they'll do another event prior to their A event, right? So just get enough of an inkling, okay, we're on the right path. You can see it, right? Or even in training in the numbers, right?
faster pace, same heart rate or lower heart rate, same pace. Just there's enough data out there to point to the athlete if they really need it. I personally don't like to because I'll be like, you know what, you're putting in the work. There's more about strategy, nutrition, fueling, hydration that's going to be more important than because you consistently train for many months, than it is.
these mile markers along the way, these mouse signposts, because they already know that inherently they're doing the work they're doing the best they can, right? Given let's not waste our time. Like let's your, your, you went professional in something other than running. You're looking to do a marathon. You have a family, you have a job, so you're not a pro runner. So let's take that first realization. And so if you're doing it, if you're doing the workouts and if you're
Chris Hauth (17:10.218)
doing it as prescribed, it's almost impossible not to improve. But then it's like, how do we want to fine tune that? And that just becomes that narrowing of the road. Over time, we're going to get to a very specific path for you. Those last six, eight, 10 weeks, where we know, all right, this is your specific path that we know we need to work on pacing, right?
Negative split runs or something like that not by much but just enough that you're not falling off building that you know that Resilience that muscular endurance over time Is it mindset? You know, is it that I see a couple of bad splits and next thing, you know I'm like, I don't got it. We know that from you know, some tests and simulations I'm big on simulations, which would be a race maybe a be race or something there or just simulating a race at home and then
As we continue to go into that, see, all right, we're working on those limiters and we're only going to knock off two or three of them. You know, we might have to have another marathon six months later, but at least, okay, we're, we're keep chipping away.
Tyson (18:18.724)
Yeah, was simulation something that you were a fan of with your own career?
Chris Hauth (18:22.58)
Yes, very much so. Very much so. I'm a huge simulations guy from anywhere from Ultraman athletes, that's three Ironman distances basically to Ironman to ultra runs. I want you, if you're doing 100 mile or a 50 mile or a 100K, I want you to be able to wake up on a Wednesday morning and run a 50K as if it's your race.
same breakfast, same dinner, same wake up time, same type of terrain, same pacing, same mindset. I wanna know where we're at. And that way you, the athlete, also know, okay, for the next six weeks, these remaining eight weeks of training, that's what I need to work on. This is where I'm at. This is the gap still to where I wanna be. Now let me work on that. And without that, it's hard because we're not living in a, you know, with...
VO2 max testing and lactate testing all the time and, you know, motor pacing at a certain wattage or velodromes or, you know, there's so many ways to usually test and swimming, you know, we had have pools with the pacing on the, on the ground with light pacing. So you always know exactly where you are, but as a masters athlete, you know, when we're past that, we don't have access to those facilities anymore for free.
That becomes challenging. So I want to be put into the situation, right? So that then come event day, we can control what we know. And then because there's plenty of uncontrollables on event day, something always comes up. There's going to be plenty of things, but now I have the cognitive ability, the relaxed mindset, the awareness of, all right, this was to be expected. You know, now I can work on that. I don't have to think about pacing, fueling.
Hydrating mindset being bothered by the weather all those things
Tyson (20:17.456)
Yeah, Matt, do know David Roach? Yeah, I thought you might. I just listened to him and Rich a couple of weeks ago and that was such an unbelievable conversation. It's been amazing to watch Dave's sort of profile or notoriety shoot through the roof in the ultra scene. not just the running, endurance scene, just through his own performance there at Leadville. But when it comes to simulation, it was something that I heard him speak about a little bit in that conversation and.
Chris Hauth (20:34.144)
Yeah.
Tyson (20:42.096)
He seemed to have a really unique approach, which, I mean, when I was listening, I thought there seemed to be a lot of correlations between his approach to the sport and your approach to the sport, from mindset to a bit more of holistic approach to, one thing I love that he said that I haven't necessarily heard you say, I mean, in terms of just testing where you're at, was his approach to Leadville, by disrespecting the distance, disrespecting the event.
And I thought, man, that's something you never hear someone speak about in an endurance scene, but it's definitely a philosophy where if you want to go out and actually test where you're really at, it could be a good attitude to hold from time to time. was keen to pick your brain on that because I mean, from an outsider's perspective, and as someone who's fairly well versed in ultra endurance, mean, it's not a quote you hear often, but there seems to a little bit of credibility based on the fact, at least on that day, he backed it up.
Chris Hauth (21:37.078)
for sure. Right. And it's harder even if you come in less known. mean, I'd known David for years. him and I raced a head to head at a race here in Marin called the quad dip C once and man, he was flying that day, but I'm more of a negative split guy. So I was trying to catch him on the back of it, half of it. And he would, and when I, was chirping, which is our way of talking a little bit, it wasn't trash talking. David isn't the type to trash talk, but.
in a positive acknowledgement, but also I better get going way. it was fun racing with him. But that being said, disrespecting the day. it's also, you take, if you don't take it seriously enough, it's also a disrespectful aspect of going about the work that you've did. You don't want to work disrespect yourself, right? So many times, whether it's an ultra running, any event actually, even in work.
work projects or big milestones. If you just go and, you know, we'll see how it goes. No, no, no. Don't fool yourself and don't try to take the pressure off by using that nonchalant attitude. That's, that's to me, disrespecting yourself and disrespecting the race. Now, a lot of people will have criticisms or talk about negative negatively about, well, if you take it too seriously or he's
so type A, so caught up in living. That doesn't matter. If it's important to you, me the athlete, that's my prerogative. If I choose to take it seriously, I will. You could argue half this stuff is completely fictional. If you go from a logical perspective, and this is Iron Man Triathlon, it was made up on the back of a cocktail napkin in 1978. Some guy on a bar bet,
invented it. Now there's generations of people who live and die by this stuff. They get tattoos. They travel the world for it. They give up most of their social life and most of their time to train for it. You could argue you fell into a nice little trap that somebody just made up and now you're taking it so seriously. Doesn't matter. If you care, I care.
Chris Hauth (24:00.734)
So disrespecting yourself is the one aspect there. And then the second thing is, the longer you go, that course will come to find you if you're not, if you don't respect it, right? Whether it's in triathlon, whether it's in ultra running, especially multi-day stage races, we see this a lot. know, whether it's marathon to sabo or racing the planet or where these five, six day stage races where you're running about, you know, 24-ish miles.
30ish, not 24ish miles a day. And then you have the long March on day four, which is a, 50 K and 80 K, excuse me, 50 miler. So people are feeling great day one, day two, and there's just, you know, relaxing into like, no, I have no problem. I got this. No, no, you can't relax until you know, the queen stage at the end where it's only a 10 K everybody's shaking hands and congratulating each other.
It's a very common thing from not realizing what it is you're doing, respecting yourself, respecting sort of the energy out there too. Leadville is phenomenal like that because it's an out and back even more. So you're gonna see it all again and who you are on the way out to Hope Pass versus who you return as is a different human being. Not only spiritually, because you've gone through some serious suffering,
Tyson (25:24.116)
Thank
Chris Hauth (25:29.002)
But also when you think you're doing good, you could be crawling at that same spot on the return. So it's even more in your face where you say, I remember this spot. I was feeling so good here. And now look at me. So he's right.
Tyson (25:45.679)
I have that feeling on some five mile out and back runs.
Chris Hauth (25:49.258)
yeah. yeah. Yeah. But that's the thing is when you guys, you guys who I say you guys who go shorter, it's, always say endurance athletics, it's, it suited me because mentally I did not have the mindset, the engine. I don't know if I had the engine. I just never had the mindset to put that much effort into a small window. Right. To me is endurance is the way from swimming and even in triathlon, I just took the effort.
that you bundle up into a 1500 or a 5K, and I just extend that effort out over many hours. If you look at it, it's overall mentally the same required effort, but because I have time and I can catch up, it's not also perfectly in such a small window. That's why for swimming, for me, four, five, six minutes of a 400 IM or two minutes for a 200, that was plenty of time. It's the sprinters who did like in the next,
20 seconds, next 45 seconds, everything's happened, too much pressure, way too much pressure.
Tyson (26:55.154)
How did you develop the reputation or at least the focus on the negative split approach to racing?
Chris Hauth (27:03.938)
well, swimmers do a lot of pace work that sort of, you know, we don't have much to do when we're staring at a black line at the bottom of a pool for decades. And so, time and splits and how we see the clock while we're swimming is, is a constant game. It's the only thing that makes time go by literally. So, and don't get me wrong, I'm not a big believer in negative splitting and events, but in a mindset aspect on how to.
sort of build yourself up for it, I do believe in it. So for example, I don't believe a good marathon, and this is my personal approach, trust me, there's probably many coaches who are way better at this than me, and who have a way better approach with regards to negative split and have been successful with it. But me personally, if you pace a marathon successfully, and not with rabbits, I'm not talking about pacers, that's different, then negative splitting means you left too much out.
Like if you, let's say you run a three hour marathon, just an easy number. If you take it out in a 125 and come back in a 132, I think that's a pretty well paced marathon. Even split, even there I would say, might have found another 90 seconds because you never want to slow yourself, you know from running, you don't want to slow yourself down so much purposely.
A to negative split, but B it messes with your stride. It doesn't feel as natural. It actually fatigues your joints and body differently because you don't train like that, right? With an awkward foot landing and so forth. I'd rather you run relaxed and assure yourself that it's easy enough, but it doesn't want to be too easy. It's a race. Like, like that's the other thing that drives me nuts. You know, you're a 1500 runner. You know that the laps are so important.
Pacing and the structure of it and you know, you can't just go by pace because the race is up there If you just go by I'm just running a 62 this lap no matter what happens like well if they're all running up there Great you you perfectly paced it, but you placed terribly So it's very similar
Tyson (29:19.726)
Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. You said something earlier, I want to make sure I heard it right. You were saying that with a new athlete who comes to you, a lot of the time, the more important thing they should focus on is hydration, nutrition, and that aspect of fueling their training rather than just on the splits. Or did I have that in reverse? Were you saying for someone who is just a, you know, a nine to five, trying to find time in and around their family, they should just be doing the training.
and worry about that stuff later.
Chris Hauth (29:51.318)
I could argue for both, right? It, it depends on where that, we call the low hanging fruit, right? If there's some things that I see they've done plenty of training in the past, but what they think is running out of fitness at, say on a marathon mile 16 or on a 10 K, you know, at seven or eight K that they're like, you know, I just don't have the fitness for it. Oftentimes it might be a fueling or a hydration question, right? Where it's like, you just, you just ran out of gas.
quite honestly, well, in a 10K, that's hard to do. You pretty much have plenty of that, but in a marathon, right? Or longer. then it's, well, I think let's work on this first. But oftentimes it's also, well, you're missing the trials of miles and the miles of trials, right? To quote the book, Once a Runner. So let's get out there, let's get you running, let's get you really efficient, let's get you really economical in your movements.
Whether they're perfect or not, whether they look great or not, it's you. It's your running. Let's first maximize the engine we have and what we're working with. And then let's start tweaking mechanics and form. so like I'd rather squeak out every piece of potential first. And just so that you present, you're engaged. You're the athlete, right? You're like, wow, we're really pushing the envelope here. We're really trying to move the needle and really make the biggest impact for how I currently run.
And then if that doesn't work, we'll have some improvement just because you've done the work. but then there's more there than it's like, okay, all right, well now let's start getting into the details. We get into this a lot with, in triathlon or in cycling. Right. A lot of people focus so much on, you know, the bike, the technology, the arrow position, the, this, the, that, right. At 15,000 us they're in this and you know,
They spend of their 180 kilometers of an Ironman, they spend a hundred sitting up. really? Like, okay. Let's correct that first, right? Get you efficient. Let's get you aero. Let's get you relaxed. Let's get your power up. And then when we see, huh, wow, that power gets you so far. Now let's adjust your aero position or let's get the bike worked out or let's get the wheels. then you're stoked because
Chris Hauth (32:17.49)
You don't have to do that much more training. get some free speed there just because of technology gains. And it's similar with running.
Tyson (32:25.36)
Yeah, it's interesting how often you'll start that in reverse. Like, I mean, and I'm not excluded from this category. I've just returned. So I finished up competitive running in like 2014 and the last two years I've made a return and I'm training for, I've just got my entry into the Gold Coast Marathon, which is in July this year. And I mean, I've been going down the Dave Roach rabbit hole and hearing what he's been speaking about in regards to bicarb soda and in regards to, there was a couple of other, ketone IQ.
And there was a number of things that I'm like, it sounds really interesting. But I think that like the number one thing that I need to focus on now is just developing like consistent miles. Sure, I'll look after that as well. But it is interesting how often you have like, you'll start a new sport or a new game or whatever. And you're that bloke with all the gear and no idea of what really should improve. Like you're at the gym in your super shoes, but you haven't quite grasped the concept of what you're used for. So it sounds like...
your approach is very much, right, hey, let's get the fundamentals, let's get the foundation in place, and then we'll worry about the arrow position, or then we'll worry about the shoes, or then we'll worry about insert whatever fancy gadget has just been released.
Chris Hauth (33:34.93)
Or even easier from a training standpoint, let's first get some miles under our belt before every hill repeats and tempo work. that like, okay, we'll get there. But for now, because it's easy to be distracted by a shiny new workout, right? Like, Ooh, that looks fun. Or, you know, those strides combined with a morning, a tempo workout and an afternoon, like, yeah, great. That looks, that looks great on paper, but
If you aren't there yet, it doesn't matter if it'll feel good for about 40 minutes and then your day is done. Right. That's the, a philosophical standpoint, train where you are or not, where you want to be. That's the big thing because you'll get to where you want to be if you train where you are. and then secondly, it's don't get distracted. Like this is, this is your path. Like we were talking earlier, like let's, let's have a general direction where we're going. I know it's vague right now.
and sort of general, but you are learning as you're doing this. You, the athlete, are engaged. For you, for the marathon, all the subtle little things that you're being reminded of again, that's right. This is how that should be on that posture.
my upright position, my shoulders and like how am I leaning and like all those little things. that's right. That's how my foot should feel when I'm really light on my feet and it's all clicking properly. You only get that a little bit right now, right? But the more you're in that, the more you can connect to that again, along with we all know as runners, when you're in that really efficient economical phase, because you've gotten a lot of miles under your belt and you feel like
Tyson (35:07.654)
Yeah.
Chris Hauth (35:19.254)
There's nothing better than you're you're running on air. You're like, why don't I feel like that all the time, right? But you got to get there. It takes some time. And so if we're focused on super shoes and what kind of VO2 max intervals you're doing, just get me to that point first. I'm like, OK, now I'm back to this point. Now I can start fine tuning the engine.
Tyson (35:42.734)
Yeah, it's a really good point people often ask like especially people who are new to running or hate running and think they could never do it Like how you can enjoy it so much and that feeling of running on air is probably the drug that keeps you coming back for more But even after I mean i'm 37 started running when I was 12 I think the average of that time of runs that I feel good on is maybe if i'm doing 10 runs a week I reckon one and a half of them. feel great. And the other ones is just a commitment and a real
So you got to navigate your way through the mud sometimes to figure it all out. I was keen to pick your brain a little bit around nutrition or what your focus is or approach is because it's always a, mean, I get nervous dabbling in this scene because I think if there's one particular topic that makes the listeners to this show the most angry and maybe every show, it's nutrition. I'd film aphotone on here a while ago and the amount, he's such a great bloke and the amount of.
like angry emails I got that he could possibly speak about fat adaptation and, you know, using fat as fuel was wild. It blew my mind. I mean, there's some fair responses. When I'm training for the marathon, I'm still using carb. I get where people are coming from. But the idea that you can't even talk about it was, it kind of made me laugh. I would open up my email each day for about a week after that interview and I'd say, here we go again. Yeah.
Chris Hauth (37:01.142)
Yeah. Well, that's fun on nutrition, quite honestly. And I say fun for a reason because it is so complex and every, but for you to say to me, that's the way that it works. bodies are so unique and so different. Right. And so I actually would encourage people to try fat adaptation. would encourage glycogen only carbs only. I would, you want to understand the
more you know as the athlete, the better. And then again, simulations. Let me see how I felt. Let me see how I recovered. Let me see how long I was sore after that focused tempo run. Was it a nutrition question? Was it a hydration question? So I like all the data in that respect of a more narrative format and telling me, huh, it took me a day or two longer to recover from that 20K run.
And it's like, well, why? So we'll look a little bit into that. So nutritionally, me personally, I also observe what's been around for the last 20, 30 years and what sort of continues to show success. I go by the bigger trends versus trying to, I'm not trying to catch lightning in a bottle and be on the forefront of anything. I'm okay with like, you know what? We see best practice and a full rational approach.
And so for example, what we're seeing the most success on currently in the running world, especially in the marathon world, but also in the Ironman and the longer distance runs is that they're eating and fueling with a lot more calories than they ever thought was possible. And so that has been just a huge amount of data that's showing that. And so it's okay. So let's take a look at that. Let's...
fuel up 60 grams of carbs, 90 grams of carbs an hour. Of course there's other things mixed into those carbs. It's not just pure glycogen shot. We're not all sucking on sugar cubes. you need proteins and fats that have some, not very little proteins, but just some fats for delivery and stuff like that. But that being said, that seems to be...
Chris Hauth (39:25.546)
Where it's heading or what's been heading for the last five six years you look at some of the front runners on the two to 210 marathon time the amount of 110 grams of carbs an hour It's you used to think you'd get sick from that, but they train that right They really have upped the amount of and then fructose to sucrose that so what is the general trend and then I'll say let's try that Let's see how you you the athlete respond to that
And what we really have to give it a real world. can't just be, on that training run, felt okay. No, let's do it for a couple of weeks and really push it through the paces. And then we start getting us inside what works well for you, right? But some people fat adapted, I'm not in disagreement of it. I've tried it and done it and have athletes that have been quite successful. But I will say again, the broader
view of the data is that the intensity level is lower. So for an ultra run, if you're going for 12, 14, 16, 20 hours, well, you're not going to need quite the glycogen infusion of the fuel injector quite as much. If you're running a two-hour marathon, you're on jet fuel the entire way. So those are the easy cases. on both ends of the extreme here.
There is sweet spots. then, then there's also this even more interesting point. And I'm sure Phil brought about it. You can also time it. So maybe the first hour or two, I'm more carb heavy, get the system going. And then I switch more to fats. I'm adapted because of training as well as simulations. And then I can fuel on that for a while. And then when I need a boost or it's, you know, a long climb on this, know, uphill pass in Leadville.
Well, then I want to switch to carbs and get some glycogen, get some jet fuel in, you know, there's ways to really dial this in. And there's some great companies out there that will really do a personal hydration and fueling plan for you. so it, yeah.
Tyson (41:35.226)
Yeah, it's interesting. The one thing that I've had trouble sort of getting on board with despite knowing how essential it is, you know, with a carb-fueled approach is just the amount of sugar that you're taking on board over the course of a lead up to a marathon. I look at it I go, okay, sure, I'm a lot of this out, but my teeth, don't think know that. And so I'm trying to figure out like, is there an alternative? Is there a better product? Is there, because I can't remember who said it.
But I remember hearing, I think it might've been Phil actually, that there's a big difference between fitness and health. And I can see that's true. And as a bloke who, I try and eat as natural a diet as I can and I'll try and get rid of just the rubbish as much as I can in my diet. And then I look at the marathon preparation, I'm like, this is, especially over the course of a two and a half hour run, I'm like, it's pretty much all rubbish. I'm not sure how you get your head around that or what your approach or focus was with.
Chris Hauth (42:08.598)
Mm-hmm.
Tyson (42:31.44)
that kind of knowledge because it's something that it's, I feel a little torn and divided about.
Chris Hauth (42:36.694)
I agree with you and I wouldn't want to live on the astronaut food as I call it for most of my training. And I recommend the same thing to my athletes, but for the simulation days. Today I have a 20, 20 K run of which the first 10 K is at marathon pace right into it. No warmup. just want to settle in. It should feel pretty natural. And then the second 10 K I want to go maybe
Five to seven seconds faster per K nothing dramatic, but I need that endure that muscular endurance as well as sort of staying in it and focus So for that I might you know say all right. I'm gonna have my race breakfast You know two three hours prior. I'm gonna have that drink I'm gonna do that and just line it all up and then Yes, do the gels or maybe the bicarb drink or you know so forth and or gel and then
Then I'll have that insight and then I'll go back to, yes, I don't need fueling and hydrating on every 45 minute to one hour run either, right? Like, come on, let's not overdo this. But there's plenty of workouts and training sessions over the 16 weeks to 12 weeks to 20 weeks as you approach your event where, okay, that's a critical key one. I'm going to go through, well, where are my racing shoes? I'm gonna wear my singlet. I want it to the right way.
That's how I try to modulate that because yes, astronaut food and teeth do not get along with
Tyson (44:05.802)
I made that mistake growing up. I was a child of the 90s when low fat was the craze and as long as it was 97 % fat free, I was being healthy. And I mean, I think I had the most unhealthy diet in Australia and I thought I was the healthiest bloke and my teeth just like living proof that something had to change and thank God I figured it out. Otherwise I would have had like half my front tooth left and it wouldn't have been a real pretty sight. But yeah, so that's your approach. Like even now when you're out there training, if you go, all right, this is a simulation day, that's when I'll use it. Every other day is pretty much you just.
Chris Hauth (44:11.062)
Yeah.
Tyson (44:35.014)
you'll fuel and recover just with your diet.
Chris Hauth (44:37.492)
Yeah, yeah. well, and during, let's say, you know, for me, go longer on trails or, even if I am on the road and then I'll bring something with me, let's say pretzels or, you know, peanut butter pretzels or things like that, or just more normal food. and I've also taught my body over 25 years of doing this. can eat a variety of things and it's fine. So that's how, that's how I.
use that. But most of the sessions aren't long enough where I need to carry nutrition with me the whole time. And so, you know, maybe for the long run of the week, I'll think about it and bring a bar or something like that and nibble on that as I'm going, but not the full fuel injection, you know, astronaut food.
Tyson (45:25.498)
Yeah, that's good because yeah, the idea that you have to have three or four gels on every 45 minute run is, you know what mean?
Chris Hauth (45:31.014)
yeah. And don't get me wrong. mean, there's they put the fear, the industry actually also puts that fear in you that people are eating and drinking that much for shorter sessions, too. So it is a confusing, overwhelming component of the endurance world. And so it is frustrating. And I totally understand that. But that's why I try to break it down into. All right, let's just first.
start the process and then see what you observe and what you would like to try. Again, for me, if the athlete is learning and they have the good sense of their body and what they're observing, we're gonna progress way quicker if they just say, you know what, you're the coach, tell me what to do and I'll just do it. Well, that's not gonna work very well.
Tyson (46:22.436)
Yeah, yeah, it's a really good point. Man, have you got any other crazy adventures coming up on your horizon? I mean, I'm running a risk here with about 15 minutes left of our chat, but it was fun last night hearing you and Flo speak about the crazy adventure that you went on with the 7x project. Some of them are.
Chris Hauth (46:39.008)
That was, that was a crazy one. Yeah. and then I came back from that and like four weeks later, I rode across the country, on our bikes with about, with nine other guys. So that was a crazy, you know, eight weeks of seven marathons with seven skydives and seven cold plunges on seven continents in seven days. was a lot of sevens, but that's why we called it seven X, but it was great. Those guys were tons of fun.
Tyson (47:00.05)
you
Chris Hauth (47:06.356)
doing anything for the veterans and the military like that. You're always opened and exposed to a beautiful community of humans. So it's been pretty quiet since I don't have any crazy adventures planned. were planning to swim across one of the larger Great Lakes last summer with a few, a few guys and, due to scheduling and a few other things, we had to push it to September at which point the weather and the temperatures.
of the lake got too cold because the winds and the weather starts picking up to the cold water from below. And we weren't planning to wear too many wetsuits. I have a feeling a few guys were planning to wear wetsuits. So we might have that. But that's actually a current topic in our household here. I'm trying to figure out, we're trying to figure out what might be the next adventure. there's always a few ideas, but we'll see.
Tyson (47:45.756)
you
Tyson (48:01.958)
Which lake were you looking at swimming across?
Chris Hauth (48:03.906)
Lake Michigan. So it would have been a hundred kilometers across, 62 miles. And we would have done it as a relay, but straight through. So it would have been a really fun adventure. had the boats all set up and the kayaks and the people and the crew, yeah, we had some, getting the whole eight of us to have a, everybody have the perfect window open and no health issues from kids or.
you know, family or work something coming up, it's very hard. And so this was one of those times where it it just came up. So next time we're to have backup. We're going to have two backup people, just in case.
Tyson (48:42.93)
That was the yeah, I feel like that's just as much of a an important part of an endurance Trainers schedule is just the ability to coordinate and make sure that there's absolutely no interruptions years ago I had James Lawrence the iron cowboy on the podcast and It was I can't remember it was just after just before he did his 50 50 50 and just hearing him talk about the Trying to tie it together. I was like mate like the
The actual coordination sounds like it was harder than the marathons to a large degree.
Chris Hauth (49:14.762)
Yeah, he was quite happy when he was in it versus the lead up. He was so stressed and so exhausted. That was quite an endeavor. And then when you're in it, you know, you have your routine and sort of you shut out the outside world. So it was a little bit easier at that point. But yeah, that was quite, quite a feat, quite an endeavor.
Tyson (49:35.385)
Man, but seven continents in seven days is he's just that it was it was funny I couldn't stop laughing because I know the perth airport quite well and hearing about you try to navigate the schedule and the run at
Chris Hauth (49:42.666)
Yeah. well, yeah, it's the only airport. So it's the only time we flew against the time zones from Cape Town to Perth. And so we lost a lot of time just because you're going against the time zones. And so we didn't have much time. still remember we were getting out of customs. It was like one 30 or two in the afternoon and we had to be back at six 30 or seven.
to get ready for a flight to Dubai. And I was like, guys, we're not getting in, we're not driving somewhere, getting all ready. So we'll have to do our skydive here, which was easy at the airport. And then we'll figure out the marathon and the cold plunging. And off we did, we ran right out of there, past the park, onto those highways, into town at some park. was hilarious because, you know, you're not thinking that great.
I'm trying to put the logistics and I'm running with Google Maps, you know, along next to the highway. It's hot as anything. It's February in Perth. And then we finally get to this beautiful waterfront riverfront park. It's pretty much in downtown Perth. It was a great spot with bathrooms. We set up an aid station there. So we do these out and back runs, but this was only about three, four, five K of uninterrupted space.
Tyson (50:42.726)
Hehehehe
Chris Hauth (51:08.062)
and we did some loops there and we started trending up. We're gonna make this, we'll be fine. But you know, as normal, people slow down. We didn't negative split it. So we finished and it was getting dark. And this was then the challenge in that I have never been swarmed by mosquitoes. Like, I mean, that sun went down and we couldn't believe the amount of...
Tyson (51:17.65)
Yeah.
Tyson (51:26.745)
Bye.
Chris Hauth (51:35.634)
Insects that attacked us it was quite remarkable So then we jumped into the river just to cool off as well as to get our plunge in and so forth But the funny thing is we didn't think about anything what could have been in the river You know, like have we thought about that? We're in Australia and there could be anything in this river like and we didn't even contemplate you just want to get away from the insects and then Who knows what was in there and we had pizzas delivered to the park
and we couldn't even stand outside to eat them because we were getting eaten alive by these mosquitoes. they didn't, the interesting thing was we all commented after it. Nobody had welts or itchiness afterwards. It was just sort of bugs or a type of mosquito of some sort that just swarms you, of, you know, bites you, but there's nothing, no inflammation due to it.
Tyson (52:29.455)
site.
Chris Hauth (52:29.482)
So the next day we're like, this is the most bizarre thing. We got swarmed by mosquitoes, none of us have a bite. So it was an experience.
Tyson (52:35.694)
That's so funny. man, yeah, everything's a little bit rougher and tougher in Perth. You're lucky you didn't run into the main part of town because it would have just been the locals biting you. So you probably got off pretty scot-free.
Chris Hauth (52:45.91)
Yeah.
I tell you, I was in Perth a long time, in the mid 90s for swimming. We were there traveling with the national team and how they treat swimmers there, it was for the world championships in swimming and how they treat swimmers there is royalty. So I had a completely different memory of Perth versus when we just were running next to the highway and trying to figure out how to get in 42K here in the next four hours.
So it was pretty funny, the contrast. was like, you guys are gonna love Perth. It's great. And they're down by the beach and it's wonderful. And you know, the people are so friendly. We never even made it close to that.
Tyson (53:18.482)
you
Tyson (53:29.395)
That might be testing your memory. Was it Kings Park you were running through?
Chris Hauth (53:34.868)
I would have to look it up. I would not remember it off the top of my head. It was just a small little waterfront park. It wasn't that big, but a nice affluent neighborhood though on both ends of it because we had to run into it to our turnaround point that we created. We just created a course there and the people started coming out and like, what are you doing? Why do you keep running by here and for how many hours and who do you know? And it was a fun experience.
Tyson (53:38.48)
Yeah. I went there.
Tyson (54:02.41)
I've had that question so many times over the course of years, Athena, the amount of people that ask like, just the amount of heckles you get. I reckon the problem is they're not very exciting anymore. I've got about six that have been thrown at me for about 25 years and they said with as much enthusiasm as they were 25 years ago. So I know what you're saying, man. Yeah, awesome, awesome, man. Well, dude, I got my eyes on the clock. I'm not gonna hold you up. What is it? It's evening there for you now. So I'll let you go and enjoy.
Chris Hauth (54:17.973)
Yeah.
Tyson (54:29.266)
put your feet up, but brother, it was one I was looking forward to, so I appreciate you making the time to come on,
Chris Hauth (54:35.294)
Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you for having me and yeah, however I can help.
Tyson (54:40.978)
Nah, you're a legend. We'll leave it there. Thanks Chris. Sweet man, I'll cut that off. Dude, that was fun.
Chris Hauth (54:43.68)
Thank you so much.
Chris Hauth (54:48.202)
Good.