Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The stories from the places where people gather.
Dana Kadwell (01:33)
And today we have the amazing and always hilarious Shannon Terrant. Shannon is a wedding sales strategist helping venues and vendors turn inquiries into booked clients. With over 15 years as an off-site caterer and venue manager, she built multiple businesses into local leaders by focusing on conversion, positioning, and a clear sales process. Today, she leads Wedding Venue Map and educates event pros on how to fix their sales gaps, build trust with modern couples, and book more without relying on discounts.
She is a no BS speaker and host of the wedding sass holes. Shannon is known for her direct approach and practical strategies that actual work. Shannon tells it like it is. You can always count on that, whether you are ready for it or not. Welcome to the show, Shannon.
Shannon Tarrant (02:18)
so excited to be here. Longtime listener, first time guest.
Dana Kadwell (02:22)
Love it. this is like the perfect bio for you, by the way. I love every
Shannon Tarrant (02:25)
Thanks.
Dana Kadwell (02:26)
piece of it. So if you haven't heard Shannon speak, it is a hundred percent the truth. She tells it like it is, she's not afraid to hurt your feelings. But in the end, somehow your feelings aren't hurt. You just feel like I needed to hear that every single time. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (02:37)
Yeah. You might like
you might retract a little bit with some of the things and be like, I can't believe she said that to me and then l roll it around in your head and you'll be like
Dana Kadwell (02:46)
Yeah. I remember the first time I I don't remember the first time we met, but the first time I actually booked you to speak was for a nace was NACE Evolve. And someone was like, You've got to get Shannon and I was like, Okay and I it was it was not a mistake. It was the best. You had like the highest rated that Evolve actually.
Shannon Tarrant (03:01)
Thanks. We we had a good time. It was a good group.
Dana Kadwell (03:03)
You did.
It was. It was. Well, let's get started. if you just want to tell our guests just kind of an abridged, fun version of how you became the owner of Wedding Venue Map and what that is exactly.
Shannon Tarrant (03:15)
Yeah,
so Wedding Venue Map is a local directory in the Central Florida market. I spent the majority of my career in offsite catering and venue management. Catering gave me kind of the love, and I fell in love with venues because I got to bop in and out of venues all over our market. And then going into venue sales and marketing specifically for one venue was fantastic. I just needed a break from the couples. Like the market shifts every few years and
what I was loving most was being able to help guide the new businesses coming into the market. And so I really started wedding venue map as a tool for the couples to be able to go on as a venue search engine first and go on and be able to sort, filter to find the perfect venue based upon their needs. And through that, I ended up working with tons and hundreds of venues just within our local market. And I really started noticing all the same sales problems.
over and over and over again. It wasn't always a visibility problem. A lot of them were really struggling on the sales side. And everyone was asking and coming to Wedding Venue Map for the marketing help constantly and like, how do I get more visibility and where else can I be? And most of them actually needed the sales help. And so that's what kind of led me to coaching and working through like designing a sales system for people. And I realized that the problem wasn't really in getting people interested in the venue. It was helping interested people make a decision.
Dana Kadwell (04:40)
Mm, I love that. It's so true. Like I so I you know, I bought two new venues and I had one that had plenty of leads, one that had no leads, like at all. And leads are definitely a problem. Like you have to you do have to have a certain number of leads because your leads have to convert to chores, right? But let's just say that, you know, you're getting what you would consider like a normal amount of leads. Like what I'm sure you hear all the time, like people say, like, that's not enough, it's not enough. Is
Is there like a number or like a numerical thing that you try to hit when you're talking to a venue about you should have this many leads and this is the conversion you should be getting to?
Shannon Tarrant (05:15)
I
mean, I think it's so hard. I wish I had, I mean, I could give numbers, but then they're dirty because it depends on a
Dana Kadwell (05:20)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (05:21)
million factors, right? So, you know, the intent of marketing is to get people interested.
Dana Kadwell (05:26)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (05:26)
And really, like sales helps people feel confident enough to say yes. And so you really gotta kind of diagnose where's the problem within that piece and part. And so like
There isn't a set number because conversion numbers depends on where the lead comes from, how much trust has been built, how warm are they? A lead from a directory is gonna be a cool lead. It's not cold, it's
Dana Kadwell (05:50)
Right.
Shannon Tarrant (05:50)
not warm, they only know enough. There isn't a whole lot of trust built. It's not cool. So if you're getting, you know, a hundred leads a month from a directory and only
5% are converting to a tour. Well, we can diagnose that a little bit, but if you're getting 100 leads through your website and 5% are converting to a tour, that's a freaking problem. So it really is about the where it comes from. So set numbers isn't really, it's like a hard stat to give people. You know, I have them in a presentation and I hate them because I'm like, it depends though. It depends, it depends, it depends. So
Dana Kadwell (06:24)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (06:24)
you've got to really figure out like if your calendar is
Full of inquiries, but empty of bookings, right? You've got tons of leads coming in and you're working leads and you're not getting any bookings. That's not a marketing problem. It's a sales problem.
Dana Kadwell (06:38)
I love that. I never really thought about that actually. So like I we do like reports like every week and every month of like how many leads we have, how many tours, how many bookings we look at that conversion. But I'm like now really curious about separating it into listings and then other ones to like really dissect it that way to see where the issue is. Cause the issue might just be our warm leads aren't converting enough. But our that's interesting. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (06:58)
Yeah. And then you can figure out where to fix it, right? So if you
split, I think things like looking at the temperature of a lead that comes in, a lead that comes through a DM is probably a warmer lead because they've been following you and they're engaging in your content.
Dana Kadwell (07:07)
Yeah. Yep. Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (07:11)
You know, a lead that comes through your own website, a referral, things
Dana Kadwell (07:13)
huh.
Shannon Tarrant (07:14)
like that are gonna they should convert a higher percentage than a lead from just a social media ad or a Google
Dana Kadwell (07:20)
Right.
Shannon Tarrant (07:21)
ad, or you know, so I think you've
It is a good split for those who are already tracking. And I know we're going to talk about this for those who are already tracking. For this is for the advanced listeners, you might want to split those two so you can track those
Dana Kadwell (07:32)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (07:33)
separately. But if you're not tracking anything at all, that's okay too. We'll figure that
out. Yeah. Let's start
Dana Kadwell (07:36)
start with tracking yeah yeah
Shannon Tarrant (07:38)
there.
Dana Kadwell (07:39)
yeah yeah okay so how is can you walk us through how you actually diagnose where a venue's funnel is leaking because I can tell you that I there's been so many times I have thought it was leaking in a certain spot like just and I was convinced like I would have bet like money on it. I was like this is the fucking problem I don't know why we're whatever and then like we get into it and we're like nope that was not the problem. So how do you actually diagnose where where the break in the funnel is
Shannon Tarrant (08:05)
I think the very first thing, and we kind of touched on it a little bit, is really having actual metrics. Like
Dana Kadwell (08:10)
Mm.
Shannon Tarrant (08:10)
you need numbers and data. The data doesn't lie. Even within my own business, sometimes I'm like, I think we should and then like stop, go pull the analytics and go pull the data. And sometimes I'm right, and sometimes I'm really wrong because the data and the numbers don't lie. So we don't need to overcomplicate the metrics. I think there's a few really specific metrics you should be tracking. Number one is how many leads came in. Like you can look at this either weekly or monthly. Don't
Go any longer than that, but like start tracking how many inquiries come in. And then I actually like had a debate with this about someone and I lost, and they were right. So I'm gonna teach it to you now.
Dana Kadwell (08:46)
Ha ha
Shannon Tarrant (08:47)
That I think traditionally we've tracked how many inquiries come in, we've tracked how many tours we do, and then we've tracked how many bookings, like contract signs. I actually think there was a metric I was missing, and we're gonna give Tom Chalednik from Wedding Pro, we're gonna give him
Do him do his give him his flowers for this. But one
Dana Kadwell (09:06)
Way to go, Tom.
Shannon Tarrant (09:07)
way to go, Tom. But he added one in between and I started tracking within our own business and was like, damn, that changes changes the game. So in between leads in and tours, have another metric in the middle called two-way conversations.
Dana Kadwell (09:21)
Mm.
Shannon Tarrant (09:21)
So I got a hundred leads this month and we booked 10 tours. Okay, great, right? That's a 10% conversion. But if I got 100 leads in and only
20 of them turned to two-way conversations, then booking 10 tours. Now I had a 50% conversion for
Dana Kadwell (09:39)
Yeah, yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (09:41)
leads. So I think that there was a number I was really missing. And when you look at these four data points, right? How many leads came in, how many two-way conversations, like how many of them moved there, how many of them turned to tours, and how many of them turned into a booking. Now you can figure out where's the drop.
And then we can dig into the why. But you've got to figure out first where are they falling out of the funnel of those four steps to really fix it.
Dana Kadwell (10:07)
Wow, I love that. And I I'm sure that there's different ones that like if you're not getting enough leads, here's your issue. If you are not getting enough two way combos, here's your issue. If you're not getting enough tours, here's issue. If you aren't booking from the tours, then here's issue. And I know you're the queen of tours. Like you give a you have amazing talk
Shannon Tarrant (10:22)
Yeah, I love it.
Dana Kadwell (10:23)
on tours and you actually I think you had a course for a while, right, for it? Is it still available?
Shannon Tarrant (10:26)
Yep. Yeah. So I mean
there's just so many ways that people can when you diagnose the actual problem, like
Of where they're falling out. Maybe you're not getting enough inquiries. Maybe you're not getting good inquiries, like people who actually match your ideal client, which is why they're not converting to a two-way conversation. They're self-selecting
Dana Kadwell (10:45)
Right, right.
Shannon Tarrant (10:46)
out. Like, so you've got to kind of, once you diagnose the problem, you really can dig in there and figure out who's the expert, who's the pro, where's the support I need to work on fixing it. Because most people immediately want to say, I don't have enough leads. I'm not getting enough leads. And I'm like,
Dana Kadwell (11:02)
Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (11:04)
number of leads is
important,
but so is the quality of the lead. Like that's
Dana Kadwell (11:06)
Sure. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (11:08)
a factor as well to make sure they keep moving through the funnel.
Dana Kadwell (11:11)
So true. And I think what's really hard about venues, and it's where I struggle a lot in the education space, is that you have someone that goes goes up there and says, Okay, if you are lacking from how many leads, like in your two-way comp out, like you're not getting enough of that, here is your problem. Where I honestly feel like it's so nuanced because I can do the exact same thing that I'm doing in my two different venues and have two completely different results because one needs a lot of information buy-in before they get to a tour.
One doesn't give a shit about what you tell them. They don't care. They just wanna know, tell me how much it is, tell because it's a lower price point. And so they're trying to, they're trying to mentally determine, is this gonna fit my budget? Like that's their number one deciding factor. Where the other venue, their deciding factor is like, how am I gonna feel when I walk into this space? And not saying that is important for the other one, but that's not how I'm gonna get them into a tour, if that makes sense. So
Shannon Tarrant (12:03)
Yeah. And I
mean, I think that like all education, it's take it all with a grain of salt. I mean,
Dana Kadwell (12:08)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (12:08)
I have exact things that I know formulas I've repeated over and over and over again. But when I go into like coach and consult with an individual venue, the first thing I say is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Like I
Dana Kadwell (12:21)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (12:21)
might give you a suggestion that you might have heard me say on Instagram. And then you're like, Well, I tried that and it didn't work. And I was like, Well, that wouldn't really apply based upon your circumstances or where you're
Dana Kadwell (12:33)
Right.
Shannon Tarrant (12:33)
trying to
position or where that factor is. So, but the metrics don't lie. So
Dana Kadwell (12:38)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (12:38)
sometimes it's like, you know, there is no freaking magic bean. Like there's no magic bean that's gonna
Dana Kadwell (12:43)
Can you create that magic beam for us, please?
Shannon Tarrant (12:46)
my God, I know, but there's no magic bean that's gonna fit for all the venues across there's
Dana Kadwell (12:49)
Right. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (12:50)
different types and styles. We're like, we're a messy category. DEJs, photographers,
Dana Kadwell (12:54)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (12:55)
it's not messy. It's kind of a
Don't tell them I said this. Hopefully they're not listening, but it's kind of a one-size-fits-all, right? It might be different offerings, but it's like a DJ's
Dana Kadwell (13:00)
I know. Yeah. Sure.
Shannon Tarrant (13:04)
providing music for a wedding. Great. Okay, cool. Whereas the venue is I'm venue only. I'm venue tables and chairs. I'm a city-owned venue.
Dana Kadwell (13:10)
Mm.
Shannon Tarrant (13:11)
I'm a hotel. We have food and beverage. Like there's just a lot of different factors why it doesn't fit perfectly in one box.
Dana Kadwell (13:17)
Right. Yeah, that is so true. I know. I don't ever like to be like, we are the hardest category, 'cause I I just feel like it's I can't say that with like a hundred percent conviction, but I like the idea that we are the messiest and most complicated category for sure. Like so much overhead.
Shannon Tarrant (13:31)
Yeah. And we have the biggest overhead for damn sure. So let's be clear,
like that's the so I think hard is a tough question, but I think we're messy and complicated and we're the very first thing that couples do. So that is why like we set the tone of sales for the entire rest of the industry because the very first thing that couples pick is the venue.
Dana Kadwell (13:50)
Yeah, it's so true. Well, if you were to spend like one day in a venue sales office, what do you think you would see like over and over again?
Shannon Tarrant (13:59)
There's
a few like frequent flyer mistakes that happen that venues can like kind of self-evaluate. And
Dana Kadwell (14:06)
Okay.
Shannon Tarrant (14:07)
one of those is inconsistent follow-up. Whether that follow up is on the lead to tour or on the post tour of like trying to get them to actually convert, follow up is always the name of the game. The chase is on, and it's people are like, I don't want to bother them. So inconsistent follow-up is messy. A lot of the times there's a lot of people winging it, meaning there
Dana Kadwell (14:28)
Mm.
Shannon Tarrant (14:28)
isn't actually documentation.
Processes. Sales is an actual formula. When you follow the formula, when you or if you've got different people on the team touring and different people are saying different things, I'm not saying you have to be a robot, right? But it's almost like you want to listen like a tour guide touring the Grand Canyon. They're all saying the same thing with their own spin, but they
Dana Kadwell (14:48)
Right.
Shannon Tarrant (14:48)
figured out and tweaked ways of wording things that it really works. And so the venues that like a lot of time when they have multiple people, there's just a lot of inconsistency.
The next would be metrics. They're not tracking. I mean, the majority of people, when I say, can you show me your numbers? Now I've learned when I coach them to be like, I need you to pull all of this before we meet because you need to come in with
Dana Kadwell (15:10)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (15:10)
that information. If you don't have it, I can't kind of fix the problem.
Dana Kadwell (15:14)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (15:15)
And then I think most people are making an assumption of why they lost the sale instead of really like digging into the why, asking the why, building enough rapport that they'll tell you the why. Like
overcoming the objections. So they walk out and you're like, I if I lose this one, I know what was most important to them. So those I think are the most frequent flyer mistakes with a venue. And when you start like really looking at those patterns across dozens and hundreds of venues that I talk to, like one stage of the funnel tends to start to stand out really quickly as the
Dana Kadwell (15:48)
Mm.
Shannon Tarrant (15:48)
an issue.
Dana Kadwell (15:50)
Yeah. Is there one that you see like what's the one that you see the most? Like what stage do you see the most?
Shannon Tarrant (15:55)
I think the fail in the funnel is trust. I think that like
Dana Kadwell (15:59)
Really interesting.
Shannon Tarrant (16:01)
it's surprises people 'cause they're expecting me to pick like one of the metrics we track. But I don't think we're losing people just because they picked another venue. Like duh, of course they're
Dana Kadwell (16:11)
Right.
Shannon Tarrant (16:11)
gonna pick another venue.
But I think we're losing the people after the inquiry, but before we've built enough trust to get them moving. So I think that trust comes from things like if you're responding too slow, if you're sending generic emails, if your packages are super freaking confusing, or there's sticker shock, like you're presenting the venue one way and then all of a sudden they get the price and they're like, I I didn't see this would equal that. or really begging for the tour before you've given them any value. Like you're trying to schedule a first date before I've even introduced
Myself in the dating app, right? I swipe
right on you. But if the first response back is, hey, let's go out to dinner, and I'm like, whoa, like, I'm not even sure if what you put in that app, like Bob,
Dana Kadwell (16:54)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (16:54)
do you even still look like that? Or have you lost gained
Dana Kadwell (16:56)
Right.
Shannon Tarrant (16:57)
40 pounds? Like, what's happening here, right? So I think the majority of the time, all of those things I see
Trust has not been built yet to get to keep them moving through the funnel. And that's usually like the biggest mistake with every venue.
Dana Kadwell (17:13)
I love that. One, that is the best analogy using a dating app. That is so true. I've never really
Shannon Tarrant (17:19)
Yeah.
Dana Kadwell (17:19)
thought of it that way. But like, I mean, right now I can think of in every email you send, you're trying to get them to schedule a tour and it sounds kind of like a stalker. Like you're kind of like, Come out, come out, come out. I know. I know what is happening. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (17:28)
Like, whoa, why do you want to meet me so bad? Like, are you gonna put me and kidnap me? Like, what is happening? Do I have to send my friend your photo? Like, what's happening? Right. You're pushing and pushing and pushing
instead of being like, Hey, we're kind of like dating here. Like those emails that you're sending and the conversations and the PDFs you attach or whatever, that's all like I'm trying to entice you to want to to want to take it to the next level.
Dana Kadwell (17:50)
It's so interesting. I cannot remember who I was talking to as you were talking. I'm trying to like in the role dex my mind, but I cannot remember to save my life. But it was somebody recently and we were talking about the issue with the industry. And it's that people were talking about we're talking about bookings and how we saw like kind of a lower number of bookings and whatnot. And we were saying how we didn't think it was actually like a volume issue or even necessarily an economic issue. It was we're like in a trust desert. Like
The amount of people that distrust us as wedding vendors in the community is the highest it has ever been. Like,
Shannon Tarrant (18:21)
Yeah.
Dana Kadwell (18:22)
and so combating that is the number one barrier that we have to get over. So what are some ways and you meant you just shot off a couple of them, but if you were
Shannon Tarrant (18:31)
Yeah.
Dana Kadwell (18:31)
to pick like maybe the top three things that you do to help build trust in the sales process, what would that be?
Shannon Tarrant (18:37)
I think you really gotta audit that the marketing matches the offerings. So I think sometimes people will post nothing but beautiful things on social media and these epic photos. And then they show up and look at your package and it doesn't include those shares. It doesn't include any of that. Like it's not A doesn't equal B. And so there's like, now you just lost trust in me. Or when I fill out the form, like
Speed to lead is the name of the game. When you respond slow, and I get it, where there's a bunch of smaller teams and they're not everybody has enough staff and the weekend hits and you don't have time to apply to your leads from Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Hire a freaking VA whose only job
Dana Kadwell (19:14)
Mm.
Shannon Tarrant (19:14)
it is, is to watch that the leads come through and jump and descend
Dana Kadwell (19:18)
Mm.
Shannon Tarrant (19:18)
and start or use autoresponders. But I think there's some basic stuff like fast responsing,
I think confusing packages. I spoke at Wedding MBA and keynoted last year and I dug deep in on complicated packages. That if people have to do math or think twice or choose between too many things or not enough things, you're only giving one package and it's like, this is all we have. And if we wanna you wanna customize it, let me know. You've got to guide them because they're an overwhelm everyone in life is overwhelmed right now. I mean
I'm like a pretty solid 45-year-old. Like I am on the cusp of like millennial and Gen X. Like, I'm a tough
Dana Kadwell (19:58)
Same.
Shannon Tarrant (19:58)
cookie, but you know what? I'm overwhelmed. If you ask me what I want for dinner, I don't freaking know. It's decision paralysis. And so
Dana Kadwell (20:03)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (20:06)
whatever we can do to be removing the friction and simple, simple, simple, help them guide them, guide them, like guide them along, I think is really gonna be those people are not struggling to book. They're winning.
Dana Kadwell (20:19)
Yeah.
Yeah. So I'm really curious though, or totally going off script by the way, which is just how this goes. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (20:23)
Yeah, I'm here I'm here for it. I'm here for it.
Dana Kadwell (20:27)
because I struggle with this a lot because I can see that. I can see that there's people who have decision paralysis and they're like, just give me a number, just give me a pretty package, right? But then at the same time you have people who are like, wait a minute, I wanna know what every dollar is. Like I w and I want to this to be tailored and curated. And it's almost like I feel like we have two sep different types of clients and
And the hard part about the venue is everyone's like, What's your ideal client? What's your ideal client? I'm like, I don't know, someone who has money. That's my ideal client. Like, cause
Shannon Tarrant (20:54)
Yeah.
Dana Kadwell (20:55)
it's very different. Like my Saturday client might be different than my Friday client, might be different than my Sunday client, might be different than my weekday client. Like a weekday client, it's a very different marketing strategy
Shannon Tarrant (21:04)
Yeah.
Dana Kadwell (21:05)
than my what than my weekday client, right? Weekend and weekday. But it's almost like you're asking them to do like a choose your own adventure book. Remember that when we were kids?
I loved I loved those books, by the way.
Shannon Tarrant (21:13)
Yes.
And honestly, the solution to it is a quiz.
Dana Kadwell (21:19)
Okay.
Shannon Tarrant (21:19)
Like if you're looking, and this is such advanced marketing, so don't come over here and slaughter me. But if you're trying to
Dana Kadwell (21:24)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (21:25)
get better quality leads, because you're like, my God, I don't do any of this stuff, and now she's saying go build me a quiz. There's a platform called Interact. It's very simple to use. We also
Dana Kadwell (21:32)
Yes, it is.
Shannon Tarrant (21:33)
have every single form of chat GPT, AI, Claude, whatever. You don't even have to use your brain anymore. Have Chatty build it for you, right?
Dana Kadwell (21:37)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (21:41)
But I think that when you are a venue that targets, I had the same problem when I was at the venue, right? I had brunch clients, we had Saturday who wanted an
all inclusive, we had venue only DIY. Like I think being able to service multiple of them is fine.
You have to be really careful with the marketing messaging so that you're not confusing. Like you need to like live in the space of we service this client and this client, which one are you? Take the quiz and find out. And then
Dana Kadwell (22:05)
Yeah. Mm.
Shannon Tarrant (22:07)
if they started with a quiz that's like, you know, guiding that five to eight questions don't go crazy, it'd be like,
Dana Kadwell (22:13)
Right.
Shannon Tarrant (22:13)
Hey, it looks like these packages are the right ones for you based upon everything you've chosen, or these
Dana Kadwell (22:18)
Mm.
Shannon Tarrant (22:19)
ones. You also at the end of the quiz, you get the lead. And now you know that lead is targeted at those packages.
Right. So I think there's ways that you can funnel, but you have to guide the conversation to figure out are you the like, I'm so excited to plan my wedding and I'm diving into all the things and I'm learning all this stuff. Are you like, my God, this is way too much. I don't want to deal with this. Great. Which
Dana Kadwell (22:39)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (22:39)
one are you? Cause then we can figure out which packages align. So I don't think you have to customer avatar. I do think you should design avatars. I don't think for most venues there's one. I think
Dana Kadwell (22:47)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (22:49)
you can look at like two to four. I wouldn't go crazy than much more than that, because you're
Dana Kadwell (22:52)
Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (22:54)
not really targeting mom and like.
Okay, mom might be
Dana Kadwell (22:56)
Right.
Shannon Tarrant (22:56)
Avatar's cousin. But like, you know, designing two to four avatars you're really targeting so you can target your marketing. But that is kind of the example we're talking about of getting quantity leads and maybe not quality leads.
So if your
Dana Kadwell (23:10)
Right.
Shannon Tarrant (23:10)
venue that's all inclusive, you're and that's all you offer, you don't have to have venue only P. I don't
Dana Kadwell (23:15)
No.
Shannon Tarrant (23:15)
care. You don't have to offer it, but then you've got to get your messaging tight because
Dana Kadwell (23:19)
Yes.
Shannon Tarrant (23:20)
if the trust is come see our venue and you're not screaming from the rooftop, we're an all-inclusive venue. It's so easy to choose here. You know, if your marketing isn't screaming that, then Susie the DIY bride comes in and she's like, ew, I don't and she self-selects out fast because the you got a lead, but not a quality lead.
Dana Kadwell (23:38)
Right, right, right. Yeah. That's such good advice and that is so true. I love the idea of a quiz. And even if like tech if you're not technologically advanced and like you're like, I can't even imagine putting this into my like my website or whatever, you can even do simple quizzes during the tours. Like
Shannon Tarrant (23:52)
Yeah.
Dana Kadwell (23:53)
just like certain pointed questions to help understand the client a little bit better. And then that way when you're following up with or even what you're presenting at the tour packages wise, you're talking about the right thing. I know that's
One of the things that's one the biggest things that you talked about at the very first master class and I was proud of myself because I was already doing it, but it really confirmed what we should be doing is is really having that conversation to understand who they are as a client. So as you're giving the tour, you're you're pointing back to that first conversation, talking about the grandma who can't get up the stairs. And so you're t you're automatically before they ask the question, you're pointing out the ADA accessibility and you know, whatnot. And it's a the idea Yeah. Yes.
Shannon Tarrant (24:30)
Yep. Yeah, you've got to get knowledge, right? You have to get information.
I did a coaching call with a venue in Canada last week and she was so fantastic and has like done all this education with all these people. And this is where like you and I always talk about there's a difference in the venue space because some of the advice she got, it's not wrong if you're a planner.
But I was
Dana Kadwell (24:50)
Right.
Shannon Tarrant (24:50)
like, that doesn't apply as a venue. And so one of the things that we dug in on is that she has like an estate and she has accommodations and she sells one per weekend. It's like Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and whatever. And I said, You have used the word accommodations like 14 times on this call with me.
Dana Kadwell (25:05)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (25:05)
Are you talking about it this much on the tour? She's like, Yeah. And I said, Are all your people traveling in? Like, are you a destination only venue? And she's like, No, it's probably 80% local. I'm like, how much do you think they care about the accommodations?
Dana Kadwell (25:19)
Right.
Shannon Tarrant (25:19)
And a light bulb went off in her head. And she was like, I'm like, can you just add that question to the front end of the tour? Because it is a choose your own adventure. If you're like, hey, we've got 10, you know, we can sleep up to 10. How important is that to you? If they're like, we don't really care. Like, we just want it's great that we have the space the night before we can stay here, but it's probably only gonna be me and the bride, you're leaning in on a benefit that they don't care about. And so
Dana Kadwell (25:40)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Shannon Tarrant (25:43)
two days later, I get this email from her. we did the coaching call on Monday, I get this email Wednesday, and she's like, Well.
I did all these things you talked about and I made a dirty version and they're not PDF pretty, but I just slapped together a timeline on a word doc and whatever and we started talking through. And she goes, It was the accommodations. It's a game changer. She goes, I booked the same day. Because
Dana Kadwell (26:01)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (26:02)
the minute she shifted, he was like, What the groom was like,
Nobody's even asked us that. We love the estate style, but we actually don't care about the rooms at all. Like that's not a benefit. And she was actually able to cut it back to a one-night booking and she was
Dana Kadwell (26:17)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (26:18)
able to shave the price down a little bit to get exactly to their price point. And it was like a win and they booked. So I think it's that conversation you're saying of like getting to know, but that's when you're looking at your like tour to booking ratio that her.
Hers was like she wants more inquiries and I was like, Yeah, that's great, but you did 10 tours last month and you booked zero. We don't need
to work on any of that. Okay, we can tweak all that later. We need to get those ten to sign a damn contract. So let's work and fix
Dana Kadwell (26:39)
Hm. No, you don't. Yeah. Yes, yes.
Shannon Tarrant (26:46)
your tour first. But you've got to have the data. Like
Dana Kadwell (26:48)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (26:49)
you've got to have the data right.
Dana Kadwell (26:51)
Yeah, I love that. And that is so I think, but I really feel like you have hit a problem that I think a lot I see a lot of private venue owners have. and it's a great problem to have. And it's something, it's the fact that we're all human. But when you own a venue that you have built, right, and you have put your entire energy, effort, financial future into the into this brick and mortar, and you did it on the X like, okay, well, so let's take this example. Probably this person was like,
This accommodation, this is what's gonna sell the venue. Like people want this. People, it's what everybody like everyone told me that they wanted. All of these things, like you feel so emotionally invested in it. And I've done before where I've like talked to other venues and I went, it was like a barn and the whole thing was so kitschy. And they're like, This is my grandfather's and my grandma's, this came from where I was born. But I was and I and I said, I love that for you, but not you've you've now created only a tenth of your people can see themselves in this barn because only a tenth of them
relate to that vintagey kind of kitschy style, right? It needs to be more neutral. But like it was like the most offensive thing I've I had ever said to them because
Shannon Tarrant (27:53)
yeah.
Dana Kadwell (27:54)
it was so they were so emotionally invested in this product and this thing that they built that they can't step away and see that
Shannon Tarrant (28:02)
Yeah.
Dana Kadwell (28:03)
that isn't what everybody always wants. And I it's a problem I see over and over and over again with venue owners, which which is understandable. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (28:07)
a hundred percent. And I
think that like, you know, sales is my sweet spot. It's actually my favorite part of anything I ever get to do. I can walk into a venue, watch you do one tour, and I can turn around and tour behind you, and I can change your entire tour. And I play like I'm the idiot new employee. So if the client asks a question that I don't know, I'm like, God, I haven't learned that one yet. And I like look to you and you can answer it. But when I'm in there, I think, you know, I worked at a golf resort.
Not like I spent so much time at the front end of the tour having conversations and learning about what they wanted. So that on the tour, yes, I kept asking questions, but it was like same step around the same corner that I would say, are you guys into golf? And if they were like, Yeah, we love golf, I'd be like, we have 36 holes of championship golf. And unlike Florida, we have an 85 foot elevation shift. I don't even know what I'm talking about. I don't golf at all. But if they were like, No, we don't.
We we're not really into golf. I'm like me neither, but I love to drink and drive the car and it makes a really great backdrop for incredible photos. And we move on. So
Dana Kadwell (29:06)
Right. Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (29:07)
it's like everything about the sales process is a choose your own adventure. You just
Dana Kadwell (29:12)
Yes.
Shannon Tarrant (29:13)
unfortunately don't always get the feedback from them until the tour. So the front side of the sales process is about tweaking, but you have to look at your numbers to tweak the packages to see what does
Dana Kadwell (29:22)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (29:24)
that happen. And the girl I coached on Monday, she not only like
did it on the tour, she immediately went to her website and added a sec sentence underneath it saying, Accommodation's not important to you. Let's chat about that. And like we can adjust the package accordingly. And so she's gotten six leads since and she then she added the question onto her contact form. D are accommodations important to you, yes or no? And she's like, so I'm immediately sending out different packages. I coached this girl a week ago. This is like the dream venue to coach because they hear it, they learn it and they make moves fast to fix it.
Dana Kadwell (29:56)
Yes, and they do it. Yes.
Shannon Tarrant (29:58)
She needs cash in the door. Don't come
Dana Kadwell (30:00)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (30:00)
and learn stuff or listen to this podcast and do nothing about it. Make the changes in the sales
Dana Kadwell (30:04)
Right. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (30:06)
process because one tiny tweak on your tour, she signed a $15,000 contract last week with one change. One change. So learn
Dana Kadwell (30:11)
Mm. Well, yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (30:13)
the stuff, but make the changes.
Dana Kadwell (30:15)
Amazing. I'm gonna come hire you.
Shannon Tarrant (30:18)
Come on in. We'll we'll I'll rip it all apart. But be prepared.
Cover we used to say cover your belly button because your belly button is very vulnerable body part. So cover your belly button because Shannon's coming for you. Mm-hmm.
Dana Kadwell (30:24)
I Okay. Doesn't think I knew that.
No. No, I have a great team. I have a wonderful salesperson. She's great. And we
Shannon Tarrant (30:32)
Yeah.
Dana Kadwell (30:33)
are but we are in that I I call it we're in the information gathering stage. And so we have not hooked on to any specific thing. Like 'cause we're still learning the market. It's a new market for me. So it's like I've said it's like if I was to take this venue and plop it into Raleigh, I would sell 200 events in in like that. Like, no question. I would know how to do it. It's fine. But when I put myself in this new market, I'm like, okay, I'm like
It's a whole new client. It's it's a whole new price point. It's it's a whole new value add. Like all of it is so very different. And so
Shannon Tarrant (31:01)
Yeah.
Dana Kadwell (31:01)
we are very much in, we're just try we're gathering the data. We're trying to see where those leaks are. We're trying to see what went. And my salesperson was like, She's like, I'm sorry, but like you're I think I've sold like twenty different packages. I'm like, that's fine. Like we gotta find the one that is consistently
Shannon Tarrant (31:16)
We're gonna see what is.
Dana Kadwell (31:18)
selling and the ones that people are asking for. but it is it is so hard to
be in that space. And so I think, you know, you talked a little bit about venues that have like have been in the space and are just trying to make that small little tweak. But let's talk about the ones that are like new upstarting. Where is it that you would suggest people, and let's maybe we're little bit cash flow strapped, where would you invest your time, your energy, your money in the that sales process that you think is going to get the best and the most return?
Shannon Tarrant (31:48)
I
mean, maybe it's because it's my favorite part, but it's always gonna be the tour. It's the closest
Dana Kadwell (31:52)
Yeah, okay.
Shannon Tarrant (31:53)
to contract that you wanna fix because if you're getting ten tours and you're only booking three of them, like, okay, great, can we get that three to five? That's cash in the door today. So I think that's a piece of like making the adjustment, learning to be the best tour, you know, tour leader that you can, the best guiding them through that process. If you can work on your tour.
It's fast money. It to make more videos on social media to get more leads, that then those leads don't convert to a tour, great. But like if you can clean the tour and you fix the tour, then you work backwards in the funnel. Sometimes that part's not broken, but the amount
Dana Kadwell (32:30)
Great.
Shannon Tarrant (32:30)
of times a venue calls me, and honestly, like to those of you listening who are like, I'm gonna hire Shannon for coaching, I reject 80% of the venues who call me because they won't hear me. I look at your data and I look at the numbers and I'm like.
I know you want to pay me for this. I actually don't want to take your money because that's not what's broken. And so for
Dana Kadwell (32:49)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (32:49)
me to come in, I talked to a venue in Texas and I lovingly, thoughtfully, carefully rejected them. That all he wanted me to do was to look at all the emails they're sending and go through and audit that and work on that. And I'm like, you did 30 tours last month, which is amazing. And I'm like, you booked three.
Dana Kadwell (33:05)
That's amazing.
Mm.
Shannon Tarrant (33:09)
I'm not touching the email. Your emails aren't broken enough if you're getting 30 tours. Like, of course, I
Dana Kadwell (33:12)
Yep. Right.
Shannon Tarrant (33:14)
can tweak it and we can make things better to get more of that. But that doesn't, that's not broken at all. And I was
Dana Kadwell (33:19)
Right.
Shannon Tarrant (33:19)
like, you guys need tour training. And he's like, No, the tours are fine. I was like, bro, 10%. That's bad. Like, that's a bad, that is a bad conversion. I think the
Dana Kadwell (33:26)
That is yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (33:28)
tour to booking, I know you asked for numbers before. I think the tour to booking is solid numbers. If you
Dana Kadwell (33:33)
Okay.
Shannon Tarrant (33:33)
are converting, if you are not converting 30 to 40 percent.
Something is wrong. If you are converting over 30 to 40%, like I think that's great, but we've got to start looking at why. Is your pricing off? Maybe you're really heavily qualifying before they come to tour. And that's not that it that ain't broke. So we don't need to fix it. Some venues crazy qualify, like heavily. So then their close ratio is like 60, 70, 80%. I love that for you as an established venue. As a new venue, that's bad.
Dana Kadwell (34:01)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (34:03)
Your pricing is off. You're something like if you're not heavy qualifying and you're closing 80%, your pricing is woo probably way too low.
Dana Kadwell (34:11)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (34:11)
And like I know you know your margins, but like you got to get a calendar full. But if you're brand new, maybe you're a shiny penny. So like there's a million factors, but I
Dana Kadwell (34:18)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (34:20)
feel like that 30 to 40 percent is a solid tour to close conversion ratio. But if you're
Dana Kadwell (34:25)
Nice. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (34:26)
in that spot, you're
You're in a solid place. And yes, we can improve it. If you're under 30%, something's broken. Like
Dana Kadwell (34:34)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (34:34)
you really got to fix it. If you're doing 10 tours a month and you're not booking three of those, that shit is broken. Like three
Dana Kadwell (34:40)
Yeah, yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (34:41)
out of 10 should be a solid conversion. Three to four out of 10 should be solid. Yes, can we get it higher than that for sure? But if you're not doing that, that is a definitive number. I'm solid giving you.
Dana Kadwell (34:52)
Yeah. I love that. That's a great I think that's a great way to look at it. and it's so interesting thinking about the higher conversion doesn't necessarily mean you're out of the woods. Like it just might mean that there's something still not quite right, which I love that too. so I have a question for you because there's a lot of like philosophy, I guess, going around, especially when you do like open houses and stuff. There's this idea of kind of creating a scarcity, creating pressure in some way of like if you close today or if you close within two days, or if you book now or whatever.
I've never been able to do that well because I because I hate it. Like I feel when someone starts like a car salesman, they're like, if you close today, I'm like, I don't care. I don't care. Like I just, I just told you that I want 24 hours to think about it so that I don't regret my choice. I don't care about the extra. but then there's some people who latch onto it. Like, what are your feelings and emotions about like creating that kind of
I don't want to say pressure sale, but it almost is like a pressure sale in venue sales.
Shannon Tarrant (35:53)
Yeah, I mean, I think
if you're I think you can have all kinds of sales tools in your pockets, right? Like I've touched
Dana Kadwell (35:58)
Okay.
Shannon Tarrant (35:59)
on it a little bit. Sales is a system. It's a repeatable system that like you should have all the tools you need to be able to like, I need the knife, I need the gun, I need like I need all the tools. I need the hammer, the
Dana Kadwell (36:08)
Mm. Right.
Shannon Tarrant (36:10)
screwdriver, the box cutter, the whatever, because I've got to figure out what problem's coming in front of me. And so I think if you've toured correctly and you have built rapport and you've built, you know.
you you have that relationship with the client, like I don't need to be everybody's best friend, but I want you to feel like I legitimately care about helping guide you. I think you'll know how well that works and doesn't work. I do think in the world scarcity is a factor. I don't think telling people that look the date you're looking at is a Saturday in October and that's a popular date in our market. And so I I think you can say that with the right tone and in the right way that feels educational and not high pressure.
Dana Kadwell (36:51)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (36:51)
Right.
You know, so I think that creating scarcity is a thing without it, without you feeling like I'm a hundred percent trying to close this sale. You've got to like watch your wording in terms of educating them. I think the generation coming, right? I know we're about like half millennial and half Gen Z getting married right now. I think Gen Z cracks under pressure. Cracks, right? And so if
Dana Kadwell (37:15)
Yeah, they do. Yes.
Shannon Tarrant (37:18)
you try to do that.
In any capacity, and you don't have moms with you or someone on the older side, especially with like a younger Gen Z, you've lost the sale. Like they will be like, I'm out. Like she, it's too aggressive, too aggressive, too aggressive.
Dana Kadwell (37:31)
Yeah. Yep.
Shannon Tarrant (37:33)
And so like, so I think you've got to look at the people in front of you. I do think having incentives and specials and things like that. I do think creating scarcity is an important factor. Like I
Think that it's important. I think I know I'm a Black Friday bitch. Like, I wait. I wait. I'm like, I like
Dana Kadwell (37:51)
Mm, same. I do too.
Shannon Tarrant (37:54)
Mac makeup. I'm like, ooh, I buy enough for the year. Like, I know exactly
Dana Kadwell (37:57)
Same.
Shannon Tarrant (37:58)
how many foundations I use. So when it goes 60% off, I go and buy six and I'm locked in then go in the drawer and I'm locked for the year, right? So
Dana Kadwell (38:01)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (38:06)
I think that like we know how the world purchases. So you've got to create scarcity. You just can't do it from an aggressive, pushy place of
Dana Kadwell (38:13)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (38:15)
You know, letting them know that like, listen, like we don't hold dates or we do hold dates or whatever that is. Like, we don't hold dates. So the next tour behind you, if you really love this date, like, don't sleep on it. You know, you don't
Dana Kadwell (38:27)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (38:27)
you can take as much time as you want to make the decision and review and whatever, but I may not have it. And that would like break my heart. And I think if you can use storytelling as an example to
Dana Kadwell (38:37)
Mm, mm.
Shannon Tarrant (38:38)
say, my God, it literally happened last week. This couple was dead set on this date and they came and toured and
Two weeks later they emailed me and we're like, we're ready to book. And I'm like, the date's gone. Like I can't, like, I have this date open and this date. And of course they were disappointed. And of course they booked a different date, but cause they really wanted the venue. But if the date really matters to you, it's a book it or lose it kind of situation.
Dana Kadwell (39:00)
Yeah. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (39:02)
And so, but again, it's like the tone, it has to come from a nurturing place. Like I'm a bull in a China shop when you talk to me. I'm like rah. But in a sales call, ooh, I like.
That Libra in me, we shift those scales and we like pet and love
Dana Kadwell (39:16)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (39:17)
and and and you just have to really watch the tone to not make it feel aggressive.
Dana Kadwell (39:21)
Yeah. Yeah. That's really good advice. Cause I I think that and I think too, it it really goes back to kinda what you're saying is building that trust, building that rapport with the client. Because if you have that, the conversation feels natural, as opposed to it feeling like you're pushing and you're kind of forcing it, which you've all been in that. Like we've all been in tours where like you're getting nothing from anybody. It's just like it's just pulling teeth trying to get them to tell them what your n what their name is.
Shannon Tarrant (39:49)
Yeah.
Dana Kadwell (39:49)
And and then you're out you're trying to do all these sales tactics and you're like, it's not working because you the you built nothing with them, you know? Like it's
Shannon Tarrant (39:55)
Right.
Dana Kadwell (39:55)
just not it's not vibing. So I love that piece of advice.
Shannon Tarrant (39:59)
No. Yeah,
I mean, I think there's room for it. Like there's no perfect formula that works.
Dana Kadwell (40:04)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (40:04)
But, you know, I think that if a venue's getting tours and they're not actually closing those tours, they need to start looking at things like are they not qualifying them well? Do they have the wrong
Dana Kadwell (40:14)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (40:15)
couples in front of them? Like, are they doing too much talking and not asking enough good open ended discovery questions? And if but if you don't create urgency, there a lot of times is no momentum. Like
Dana Kadwell (40:27)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (40:28)
When you talk like momentum dies really fast on a tour
Dana Kadwell (40:32)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (40:33)
after a tour. And so you have to figure out how to keep that momentum going.
Dana Kadwell (40:38)
you.
yeah, I think that's I think that is like a really, really valid point to make. I I think going back to really the the key things here is letting the data make the decision for you, developing that trust with your venues, and really not being married to what is broken. Like
being like being able to look at something and understand that like maybe you and there is pride of it like in it. Sometimes like my tours are amazing. And then if you were to tell me that the tours are broken, I'd be like, what are you talking about? But, you know, not being married to the part of the funnel that is broken and being open to that is really where you're able to grow and evolve and, you know, make those changes.
Shannon Tarrant (41:16)
You know, we have a newer venue in our market. They're less than two years old. And he reached out about joining Wedding Venue Map and was looking to grow his visibility. And I said to him, same question I ask everyone, you know, two-year-old venue, how many weddings do you have on the books? And the man said 125. And I went,
Okay, all right, let's dig in. And I'm like, okay, I know you're not paying me for coaching, but now I need data. I need
Dana Kadwell (41:40)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (41:40)
to figure out. So the first question I asked him is what is your background? And that man is a sales rock star. He was selling
Dana Kadwell (41:46)
Mm.
Shannon Tarrant (41:46)
solar, like selling solar panels on people's houses, like was winning awards for sales. So he does not shot he does not sell from his own pocketbook. He is there to guide the client. He is
consistent with following up and the chases on and if you come to tour whatever. He's also priced the package for the numbers they need to make. But
It's not it is on the lower side of the market, but he also knows what he's selling. He's got
Dana Kadwell (42:12)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (42:13)
a very simple structure. It's air conditioned. It's not like beautiful, shiny, chandelier. He
Dana Kadwell (42:19)
Right.
Shannon Tarrant (42:20)
knows what he's selling and he's priced appropriately. And that man has a hundred and twenty. I was like, my God, you're a unicorn in two years, 125 bookings. Now.
Dana Kadwell (42:28)
Yeah. That's crazy.
Shannon Tarrant (42:31)
Like for them, I was like, look, I don't think you need to go crazy changing your pricing, but I think you can tweak it up 500 and just see where it sits. Like, don't go nuts and raise it 3,000.
Dana Kadwell (42:37)
Yeah. No.
Shannon Tarrant (42:40)
Like, but I think you've got room to raise it a little bit because I know the rest of the market. But I think that when I see venues that are having really great success and
You know, a lot of the pieces and parts, they have people who are not selling for their own pocketbook. Like even you saying, like, I don't like when people get aggressive with me. And I'm like, I actually love it because my ADD
Dana Kadwell (43:02)
Ha.
Shannon Tarrant (43:03)
rages. And so, you know, I've been thinking about writing a book for like, I don't know, 400 years. Will I do it? We'll never know. So don't look for a book coming tomorrow. But I
Dana Kadwell (43:11)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (43:12)
saw some ad on social media and it was about like learn how to write a book yourself and self-publish. I filled out the form. These people that must have been six months ago.
These people still call once a week. My phone rings,
Dana Kadwell (43:22)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (43:22)
it says Spines Publishing, and I'm like, not right now. I'm not in the mood to play with this right now. And I send it to voicemail. It has been six months of them consistently texting, emailing, following up by phone, and it's still on my radar.
Dana Kadwell (43:35)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (43:36)
They don't care. They're not selling from their own pocketbook. They're not selling
Dana Kadwell (43:37)
Mm mm. Mm mm.
Shannon Tarrant (43:39)
from, and I'm just like, okay, of course I can reply on the text message, stop if I wanted to stop. But I actually don't want to just stop because at some point I might have room to take a breath and go play and learn more about this. So
Dana Kadwell (43:43)
Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right.
Shannon Tarrant (43:50)
I think you've got to stop selling from your own pocketbook and your own sales philosophy. And the venues that are like really, you know, this is I'm gonna say something ugly. Prepare yourselves. Cover your cover your belly button as I like.
Dana Kadwell (44:01)
Okay. I'm ready. Cover the belly
buttons.
Shannon Tarrant (44:05)
Like you are looking at and listening to an industry that is constantly talking about the fact that like we're all struggling. Well, a lot of venues are feeling this and the economic squeeze and the this and the that and nobody's really booking and whatever. It's bullshit. There
Dana Kadwell (44:23)
It is.
Shannon Tarrant (44:24)
are people out there
killing it right now. And you know what they're doing? They're silent in the background because they are not going to teach you what they're doing. They are not going to yell from the rooftop so that you copy their formula. They are going to quietly just shut up and keep a full calendar running. And so you're never going to hear them complaining. They're not out networking.
Dana Kadwell (44:43)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (44:43)
They're not in Facebook groups bitching, right? The people struggling are vocal.
But you know what that girl who hired me for coaching, who's already made the changes and done the things, she ain't in a Facebook group listening to other people. She spent the money to bring in an expert to
Dana Kadwell (44:54)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.
Shannon Tarrant (44:56)
solve the problem and she's doing the work. And so
Dana Kadwell (44:58)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (44:59)
stop living in the space of like everyone
Dana Kadwell (45:01)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (45:02)
is struggling, all the venues, the wedding industry is crashing and burning. No, they're not. We're killing it. You just
Dana Kadwell (45:07)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (45:09)
got you got to figure out how to grab your piece of the pie.
Dana Kadwell (45:11)
Yeah. I love that. And I think this is like a great way to like end this because I think this is a hundred percent the truth. And and it's and we're I'm not saying this because, you know, we both like, you know, mentor ven venues or whatnot, but the truth of the matter is, and to your point, not every venue is gonna be a perfect fit for every single consultant or whatever, but get out of the groups. The groups are great for camaraderie. They're great to say, how do you handle organizing your shed, right?
It's great
Shannon Tarrant (45:40)
Lots.
Dana Kadwell (45:40)
for saying, okay, like I have this employee and would you feel weird about this, right? It's great for camaraderie when it comes to things that you just need a second opinion on. It is not the place to find sales advice, how to change your process, what systems you should be using, because to the point we talked about this entire podcast, every venue is different, right? And no one has a spyglass into what you're doing other than you, unless you bring somebody outside in who's gonna take time.
to understand, to shadow, to look at your process, look at your systems, who has proven themselves to be successful and be able to say, okay, here's where I see the issue is, right? I think that's great. Okay.
Shannon Tarrant (46:18)
Yeah, and I'm gonna shameless plug for you, but this is one
of the reasons why people come to venue masterclass.
Dana Kadwell (46:23)
Yes.
Shannon Tarrant (46:24)
So if you've never attended the conference that Dana puts on, like if you've never attended I mean, conference is a loaded term, right? As to like what to expect, but the multi-day experience that happens at venue
Dana Kadwell (46:34)
Right.
Shannon Tarrant (46:34)
masterclass, right? It is a small group of venue owners, sales teams, managers, and whatever. But you literally, those of us educators who come in and meet with the venues and whatever, like
You don't want to know what the hourly rate is to talk to me because it's ugly and be prepared to tell you if you want my time. But if any
Dana Kadwell (46:49)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (46:52)
masterclass, we're all there, right? We've
Dana Kadwell (46:54)
Mm-hmm.
Shannon Tarrant (46:55)
committed to be in this space, spend time time as an educator, not only teaching from the stage, workshopping through things, like being able to answer specific questions, look at evaluating and auditing and whatever. And I think that, and you get the bonus of having those group conversations of.
What are you doing? What are simple fixes? What's like a fast, fast thing you've done that makes a difference from the other venues, even though they're of different types and different styles? Because there are a lot of them are from like all over in the country. So if you've
Dana Kadwell (47:25)
All over, yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (47:26)
if you're looking for that way to really immerse to level up your business next year, like you should I mean, I didn't tell Dane I was gonna do this, so whatever.
Dana Kadwell (47:34)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (47:35)
You really should consider venue masterclass because that's the vibe you get from it. That's
The feeling people get, they're like, my God, I learned so much. And it is the kind of people who invest, because it's not an inexpensive blow-in, blow out 24 hour conference. The people who invest in there are the kind of people like this incredible venue in Canada who they actually want to fix it. And so they really like take advantage of what's there to learn it, immerse in it, and make the changes. So if Venue Masterclass is on your
vision board for twenty twenty seven. Like now's the time to go in and get your tickets and register because, you know, we it's it's an experience
Dana Kadwell (48:11)
Yeah.
Shannon Tarrant (48:12)
you won't forget.
Dana Kadwell (48:13)
Well, I appreciate that. And I I mean, obviously I love the conference, but I think the thing that I love the most, it's just the community, it's the people. And it is, you're absolutely right. Like education is something I care so much about and I bring the best of the best. And everyone's there the entire weekend. And the amount of like one on one conversations we'd have with the speakers, because it's not a thousand people, it's a hundred people, it's like it's so impactful. So thanks for the plug.
Shannon Tarrant (48:35)
Yeah, no, it's a great. It's definitely something worth checking out.
Dana Kadwell (48:38)
Yeah. Well, thanks for being on here today. I feel I feel like we could talk for a whole other hour, but we're gonna we're gonna stop it here. but I appreciate your time so much and your expertise. And if you could just let people know how they can find you if they wanna get more information and if they want to connect with you.
Shannon Tarrant (48:54)
For
sure. My website is just my first name, last name, ShannonTarrant dot com. Like you can find everything of like how I help people. If you want to bring me in to speak, MC, any of that stuff, or if you have an organization and you're listening to this. and on Instagram, it's the Shannon experience, 'cause I definitely get myself in trouble on social media. So I'm like
Sometimes she's a little inappropriate over there more than I am on on the in the regular interwebs. So
Dana Kadwell (49:13)
It's worth a follow. It's okay.
Shannon Tarrant (49:18)
come find me over there and you know, if it's something that you're looking for someone to bring in. But if you're just looking for like tips, education, things like that, come pop over to Instagram because that's where I'm usually ranting in Raven.
Dana Kadwell (49:29)
Yeah, and I'll put all that in the show notes so everyone can check it out. Well thanks again for today. It was lovely talking to you as always.
Dana Kadwell (49:37)
Thank you so much for joining us for Gathered Here. To learn more about my new properties, be sure to follow us at McAlser Leftwich and at the Graham Mill. If you want to stay in the loop for all things Hustle and Gather, the venue masterclass, or our mastermind group, be sure to follow us on Instagram at Hustle and Gather. And for updates to the podcast and see all the fun things we're going to be doing this year, be sure to follow at Gathered Here Podcast. I'm your host, Dana Cadwell. Join us next time on Gathered Here.